If there is no god and we are incapable of seizing what we want why shouldn't we kill ourselves?
Since we can't advance we can only despair or be deluded into contentment. This is a useless existence, so we should turn over our wrists and slice them to attain freedom from this life.
>>27713000
Disregard god and atheism.
Chill out.
>>27713063
But if I do that I'll never have a shot at attaining what I really want and I'll sink into despair over the meaninglessness of my existence
If I don't do anything then there really is nothing
>>27713000
Nice trips.
There's no reason. What is reality but delusion though. There are no objective truths, only subjective interpretations.
You don't really experience the world. You experience an electrochemical mockup potentially fraught with error.
That we've achieved so much with so bad a grasp of true reality is miraculous. Even if you can't get a gf.
One of the biggest signs of immaturity is inability to deal with the the fact that you cant have everything you want.
>>27713124
Nothing exist if you want nothing.
Something exist if you know it does.
>>27713198
I'm not talking about actually getting them, I'm saying that the only thing I can see is the pursuit of them to give us a sense of purpose and if we know the pursuit will never end in success then why shouldn't we kill ourselves now
The result will be death either way, so why shouldn't I just cut to the chase and get it over with
>>27713269
I dunno anon, why don't you do it?
>>27713249
But I do want things. I envy others because I am human.
It would be good if there was some sort of transcendent force to give us meaning, but the universe is silent to this question, and thus anything we create is just a delusion
>>27713269
You will die even if you did get everything you wanted. Learn to love what you do, not what you want.
>>27713299
But death is equally pointless. I don't see a reason not to but I don't see a reason to.
>>27713063
I try to avoid theological matters, but that doesn't stop me from feeling empty. I can't keep living in a world where my dreams are unattainable.
>>27713378
How can you love something that is meaningless? It doesn't work to an end, it isn't what you want, and it doesn't have a purpose. Its just there.
>>27713149
But why should I continue with it? If death and life are inherently meaningless than why should I live?
>>27713249
This right here. One of the four noble truths is that desire is the root of all suffering. If you desire nothing, you feel none of the kind of pain you're describing. Just be content to exist and live day to day.
>>27713000
What do you want trips man? Truth? Knowledge? That's what I want. I'm gonna post my usual shit. Hopefully no one recognises me.
I can't think of anything outside of Hume's skepticism. I just got done reading Plato though and I'm reading Aristotle and a logic book. You should read philosophy too m8
But that's just me
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%BCnchhausen_trilemma
>>27713328
>anything we create is just a delusion
wat. ever heard the phrase "I think, therefore I am" before? You exist and what you create exists to you. Your existence on this planet is determined by your continued thoughts.
There is only meaning in what you decide to believe has meaning. Everything available to you is up to your perception. You're the only one to blame when you are unsatisfied with life and believe nothing to hold significance.
>>27713444
Checked again. Why does it need some goal? What do you do when you reach it? Are you done? Do you kill yourself?
Absurdism is the best ideology I can think of existentially. It doesn't satisfy me though. I need to read moar existentialism though. You're like ahh man life is meaningless I should kill myself. At least read for like 4 or 5 years before you do. That way you make the decision informed.
>>27713490
I'm not interested in Eastern Philosophy but the idea of suffering is interesting. If one were to try and reduce suffering in the world, do you try to advance medicine or do you try and find an ideology?
>>27713616
>If one were to try and reduce suffering in the world, do you try to advance medicine or do you try and find an ideology?
obvious answer is obvious m8
>>27713582
That picture is a great example of someone not having any substance and just using idiotic analogies.
You could just sit in this shitty movie, or you could go to the next theater over and watch a good one. But you're too busy caught up worrying over the shitty one to even bother trying to get to the good one.
>>27713534
But that still asserts that there is no inherent meaning, and therefore everything we think up is still a delusion.
So what the point of living even if we create our own meaning through our perception because in the end its still inherently meaningless?
I could decide and delude myself into believing anything but it doesn't really make it true and in the end I still die the same as everyone else
>>27713616
You're again just speaking in terms of desires and goals. Yes you could work to reduce the suffering of others and that's an absolute noble pursuit in itself, but in the context you're placing it I think even that would just cause you more despair. You'd just focus on the futility of it and the inability to heal all suffering.
Just truly letting go of all desire is the only way I've found to attain any kind of release from the type of despair you're talking about. Sure, with me it's only temporary lapses and for the most part I feel the same way you do, but others have mastered letting go and still leading a full life, free of despair. It's possible.
>>27713641
Yeah but will unabashed technological advancement really make me happy? What if I become a glutton?
>>27713726
But if you didn't desire anything you'd just starve to death, motionless.
>>27713198
I can. The trick lies in changing what I want to fit the circumstances.
>>27713444
Goals dont give meaning, goals have even less meaning than the things that you have to do to reach those goals. Goals are always in the future, love is something that happens in the present, thats why you cant love your goals. Living for what you want instead of for what you have only leads to longing and despair.
>>27713495
>>27713616
I want to know why we should continue in an inherently meaningless existence
I have been reading some philosophy and I did read The Stranger.
At the end Meursault rejects Jesus and accepts the indifference of the world.
I don't see any route forward after that acceptance but death. So why shouldn't we hasten that end?
>>27713781
Desires are different from needs.
>>27713582
Absurdism:
>I don't understand how the world works so I'm going to spite it by being alive.
>Why would that give your life any value?
>Because I said so.
Camus would be better off just writing that you can just literally make any shit up to validate your existence as long as you believe it.
Oh wait, isn't that already Sartre's idea?
>>27713681
If everything is meaningless, why does it matter whether something is or isn't true?
Why does it matter if happiness is a delusion if you are enjoying it?
That life is purposeless doesn't mean we should all kill ourselves; why not try to enjoy the limited time we have? Yes, it's meaningless, and when you are gone, your joy will fade with you, but whether you die tomorrow or 80 years from now, you will have to be conscious in the present. You may as well try to be happy in the interim.
Basically, your choice is to be happy pointlessly, or to suffer pointlessly. Why pick the latter?
>>27713681
It isn't inherently meaningless though, nor is it deluding yourself to believe in ideologies that bring you comfort. Searching for meaning is an important part of being human, but you have to realize that it's a reward in itself, the mysteries of the universe have eluded the greatest minds of all time. You can believe you've found the absolute truth in any ideology but there's a different one that's just as compelling and impossible to prove.
feel me? It's my understanding of it, go ahead and contest so I can ponder for 20 minutes for a few sentences again:^)
>>27713681
But it's not delusion. What is truth, or meaning, or purpose, if it's not decided by you?
The universe is an inanimate object full of inanimate objects. It's not going to create some sort of ultimate purpose or goal for you to achieve. Only you can do that. And that is what holds meaning.
But only you can decide that that has inherent meaning. Your conscious, the very fact of your being, is what you have to equate the purpose of life to. If you didn't have our modern humanity to teach you agreeable ways to think, communicate, and understand, how do you think you'd see the world? You would look, and you would see, and you would do. That would be your meaning.
Now you have the ability to understand. But behind all of the human words and ideas we put forth to describe this big ball of rock and gas floating through black emptiness, and all the things in between, is just what is there. We may agree that a tree is a tree, and that it's purpose is to collect CO2 and convert it to oxygen, as well as collecting sunlight to convert to energy to create it's preferred method of spreading more trees. But if you wanted to, you could toss away all pretense and decide that that tree is the most important thing in your life. The tree, the idea of the tree, or this one specific tree: is now holds all meaning because you decided it. You have the power to do that. You do.
If you hold to your original idea of delusion, then everything around you is just delusion described in colloquial terms by others before you, and you accepted that. Meaning is what you give it; people before you gave what they discovered meaning by seeing it, touching it, giving it a name. You can give whatever you want meaning, you can decide what your goals and desires are and live the life you want to live.
And my question for you is this: What is this inherent meaning that you seek? Even if god existed, why would his existence and plan hold any more meaning than anything else?
>>27713995
meant philosophy, not ideology.. baka
>>27713762
nigga I meant ideology, Im talking about Bhutan n shit
we have plenty of examples that technology doesnt do shit for happiness or suffering, it only makes it worse
>>27713894
you made this thread to get validation to kill yourself
you believe you should do it, yet even if we tell you to you wont do it
so whats the reason of this thread op? go read some philosophy if you want answers so bad
>>27713961
This makes some sense to me. But I'd still say that if life every becomes such that you can't achieve happiness you should just kill yourself
>>27713995
Unless you accept that there is a transcendent force then it has to be meaningless, and if we accept an objective philosophy or a religion then that is delusion because without a transcendent force they can't be inherent.
We can accept them as such so that it fills the void of meaninglessness but they aren't actually inherent.
>>27714003
If god existed then there would be an objective set of laws to live by, and an afterlife to work towards.
If he created us then we would have purpose in him. What his purpose is would be a different question, but in him we could find meaning.
>>27714146
I don't think I will kill myself, but I don't see why I won't either
I've been reading philosophy for a while now but I still don't get it
I want to understand my life and my inevitable death
>>27714062
So would the right thing to do be to spread ideology? Or would it be to try and increase our understanding of things to make more well informed decisions? Would we just keep searching for more and more information then? Would this be the best way to approach the problem of suffering?
>>27714419
There probably aren't any answers m8. That or none you can get in this lifetime. You'll have to confront the idea of not knowing and not being able to know.
>>27713000
>>27713444
>>27714333
damn, nice trips guys! lol
>>27713894
>I don't see any route forward after that acceptance but death. So why shouldn't we hasten that end?
Follow it up with The Myth of Sisyphus, it addresses that question exactly.
>>27715227
And doesn't answer shit.
>>27715259
Philosophy doesn't really offer definitive "answers." You want to be told what to think, join a cult.
>>27714716
no, no increasing understanding, because there's nothing to understand. It always goes full circle, look at eastern philosophy. is simple and practical.
asians have some of the most happy people on earthof course not the ones like the japs but the ones like my bhutan examplethey're not indulged in our obsession with knowledge, progress, capitalism etc.
read some eastern philosophy mang, its really good if you want peace of mind, instead of the hundreds of essays western philosophers write discussing useless semantics problems.
>Before you study Zen, mountains are mountains and rivers are rivers; while you are studying Zen, mountains are no longer mountains and rivers are no longer rivers; but once you have had enlightenment mountains are once again mountains and rivers again riversI had a better written version of this but I lost it
>>27713000
Having goals or not, all of our existences are equally useless. Take solace in this fact and do whatever the fuck it is that you want.
>>27713444
>not embracing the absurd
The indifference of the world w/r/t you shouldn't stop you from creating your own meaning in defiance of it.
