Is alcoholism really a disease?
You mean "addiction".
>>27640221
My dad is a "recovered" alcoholic and hasn't had a drink for a good 8 years now. I have been around him while he used to drink and I wouldn't call it a disease, more like an addiction. I feel like people call it a disease because the effect of it spreads throughout the family.
no it's a cruch
Nope. I can quit any time.
>>27640221
Apparently fucking every state of mind or thought is a mental illness or disease these days.
i guess... not really though
i will not be silenced by a machine
>>27640249
>>27640273
This.
I don't know when the disease meme started, but if it were you true then you could say that about any drug.
>>27640221
No, the word "disease" is used because addiction is associated with stuff like heroin or meth.
>>27640273
How did he recover? Did he go to meetings?
I'm a recovering alcoholic and my brother and his friends are being really annoying right now in the other room and I've got 30 days sober but all i can think about right now is going to the store and getting a bottle of rum
>>27640299
Well this actually defines that alcoholism is a disease.
It's the near irreversible degeneration between the caudate nucleus and pons of your brain. Degrades the dopaminergic pathway. Results in down regulation of NMDA receptors that literally leads to physical symptoms such as seizures.
Yes, the person does it to themselves, but that doesn't mean it's not a disease.
>>27640347
>not a direct result of physical injury
Is poisoning not a physical injury?
I had to go to rehab for 6 months for a plea deal in court. I never really bought into the "disease" thing and just used it as a way to stay out of jail
>>27640347
That sounds like a disease caused by alcohol consumption, you don't call smoking a cancer because it can cause lung cancer.
>>27640347
"Disease" is refers to illnesses caused by living micro-organisms, like bacteria and virii.
>>27640308
>>27640296
Disease is literally a social construct.
Symptoms and causes may be objective things, but their organization into named diseases is social.
Also, I personally find it sad that a board like /r9k/ is so quick to dismiss mental illness, as though a less reactive and dismissive society as regards mental issues at all would be preferable to one that recognized that there is maybe something fucking wrong with you disgusting lot.
>>27640428
Because its a way for people to push the blame for the problems onto other forces, as apposed to confronting the problems that drove you to alcohol in the first place.
>>27640468
>"Disease" is refers to illnesses caused by living micro-organisms, like bacteria and virii.
No, disease refers to an normal imbalance of regulation and homeostasis within a human body.
>>27640458
>That sounds like a disease caused by alcohol consumption, you don't call smoking a cancer because it can cause lung cancer.
No but you don't dismiss cancer because it was caused by smoking, like people do with alcoholism. It'd be like saying "Oh you got lung cancer? Just stop and it'll go away"
Alcoholism isn't just a term used for somebody who drinks too much, but rather the set of symptoms and damage caused by prolonged exposure.
There are literally irreversible physical changes to the brain and other organs during long term alcohol abuse.
>>27640468
>My definition is the right definition no matter what anyone says
So autoimmune disorders aren't diseases? Cancer isn't a disease? Radiation sickness isn't a disease?
>>27640221
who else /bit by an alcohol/ here?
>>27640221
You can stop drinking, you can't stop having cancer.
>>27640553
You can stop smoking, but that won't get rid of your lung cancer.
You can stop drinking, but that won't get rid of the damage and cirrhosis done to your body.
>>27640536
No, like you said
>auto immune disorders
They are disorders. Not disease.
>>27640573
By that definition the damage and cirrosis are the disease. They may have been caused by drinking but that doesn't mean drinking in itself is a disease.
>>27640608
>A disease is a particular abnormal condition, a disorder of a structure or function, that affects part or all of an organism
This covers cancer, alcoholism, autoimmune or microbiological infections which you seem to think is the only criteria.
>>27640527
No one here is dismissing anything, the discussion is whether alcoholism is a disease( which it isn't). Addictions are still serious issues, but that doesn't mean you can ignore reality and rewrite words to mean different things.
I don't know whether it is or isn't, all I know is it's not good.
My mom is a raging alcoholic. My dad won custody because she was such a crazy drunk. I only see her occasionally. I had some awful experiences as a kid with her. But the worst thing is that now, she'll desperately try and get in contact with me, we'll set up dinner or lunch, and her nose is always bright red. She doesn't drink when she comes to see me, but I can always tell she hasn't stopped because of her nose.
She is 8 years younger than my dad and looks 2 decades older. Please, don't let alcohol be your crutch robots. Because it will ruin your chances of ever having a happy family, of ever having happy life.
My dad met her when they were both working as psychologists at a mental hospital. Now, my mom struggled for a year just to get a position as a waitress.
It's so pathetic, it's so sad, and I don't wish it on anybody. I should honestly be angry with her, she has done horrible things to me while drunk, but I can't be mad, because it's so pathetic to see her.
Don't be an alcoholic robots.
It may not be a """""" disease """"""
But it is definitely a genetic trait. A lot of people can have a drink or 2 and be happy, but for all the males in my family (sister is adopted) we have issues with controlling it. I also have ADD, which apparently heightens the likelyhood of depression and substance abuse.
In conclusion, it is a choice, but some people are prone to having troubles with it
>>27640622
The drinking isn't the disease. Alcoholism is a disease. Alcoholism isn't just defined by drinking, but also the symptoms caused by drinking, and the symptoms (that fall under the category of the disease) remain even if the drinking stops.
Obesity is caused by lack of exercise, but encompasses a number of different symptoms.
>>27640221
In AA they don't call it a disease, they call it a "spiritual illness", whatever the hell that means
>>27640221
>tfw spent $300 on booze in the last 8 days
3 bottles of Absolut, 1 bottle of Canadian Club and 4 bottle of Wild Turkey.
This is getting out of hand. I honestly can no longer say I'm not alcoholic. It doesn't affect my work or any other aspect of my life but my liver must be screaming out.
Everything that isn't the means to an end is a disease, no fun allowed here on planet earth
>>27640717
AA doesn't really mean anything, it has a 5% success rate and is an openly religious organization. Not that that's wrong, it's just weird that so few people know that AA is an ineffective religious organization.
>tfw slav
>tfw alcoholic
who here /stereotype/?
I am >>27640678
and I do have a question. I'm only 19 so I can't legally get booze yet, and I've only drank 5 or 6 times. I didn't notice any difference any of those times except that I was sweaty and had to pee a lot, except for one or two times where I drank til I was smashed. Super drunk, and it felt really good to be honest.
My question is: is that normal? Are you supposed to not really feel any different unless you're super drunk? I know my inhibitions might have been lower or something, but eh, I didn't notice any change. If you actually have to get that drunk to feel good, I don't think I'm going to be doing much drinking.
>>27640660
Alcoholism is an umbrella term that encompasses not only the addiction to alcohol, but the physical abnormalities caused by long term alcohol abuse.
By definition, it is a disease, and should be treated like one.
Your patient drinks 20 standard drinks a day and suddenly quits. The 20 drinks a day has down regulated his GABA(A) receptors and upregulated his NMDA receptors, leading to neuroexcitotoxicity. As a by product, the dulling effects alcohol was once giving him is no longer there. Your patient is subject to seizures, decreased neural mass, tremors, and hallucinations as a by product.
The "it's not a disease, it's an addiction" mentality caused a lot of deaths before enough was known about the neural damage caused by alcohol abuse. It's a disease, the problem is people just lump it in with addiction because the substance itself is addictive.
Alcohol isn't a disease.
People don't crave herpes or fucking polio. People don't go out at night choosing to stab themselves with infected needles hoping to catch Hep C or AIDS.
Alcohol is a drug and alcoholism is the addiction to that drug.
Who the fuck is retarded enough to refer to something that starts out as a choice a disease?
>>27640221
No, and the only reason that they labeled it as such was so they can force you to turn to a "higher power" to "rid yourself of the disease".
>inb4 fedora tip
Look up the 12 step programs if you don't believe me. There's more religion going down people's throats in this thing than in a confession booth with a Catholic priest and an altar boy.
>>27640717
AA has always been a Christian institution, the goal is to redirect your focus from booze to a " higher power".
>>27640813
Drink 4 1.5oz shots of actual liquor (not the watered down shit your friends sell you) and chill for 20 min. You'll feel it as long as you aren't 400lbs
>>27640815
>People don't crave herpes or fucking polio
Alcoholics don't crave a lack of neural receptors. They don't drink to down regulate dopaminergic pathways. They do it for the subjective affects of alcohol.
>>27640819
>Look up the 12 step programs if you don't believe me
That shit is like trying to cure cancer with herbal tea. You want to help yourself get over alcoholism? Want to counter the physical abnormalities caused by long term exposure? Benzos and other long term medication.
>>27640814
You know what? If pretending its a disease makes it easier for you to stay sober, then I'll just drop the subject. Take care of yourself man.
>>27640827
Replying to this, but continuation of >>27640819
I can't fucking stand the fact that the government can force you to go to AA meetings and shit if you get a DUI or something, where if you are an atheist or something similar, you have to do a complete 180 on your beliefs or you get arrested. (incredibly unconstitutional. t. Establishment Clause of the Constitution)
Anyone else get pretty mad with both the fact that it's basically a government-endorsed religious brainwashing institution, and that they try to make you pray it away instead of taking fucking responsibility?
>>27640879
I know that it's bullshit, but you are mandated to require 12-step programs if you get arrested for stuff like DUI's.
>>27640882
>You know what? If pretending its a disease makes it easier for you to stay sober, then I'll just drop the subject. Take care of yourself man.
I don't drink. I'm a first year intern.
Alcohol consumption isn't a disease, but the byproduct of addiction and related physical abnormalities from long term exposure is.
>>27640879
Man, you may either be one of the best trolls I have ever encountered on this site or the biggest fucking idiot.
>>27640927
I've probably just been exposed to too many leftists who want me to believe it's a disease. That or all those years of medical training lol
>>27640927
I'm not him, but I don't see anything wrong with what he said? 12 step programs are really like trying to cure shit with tea, and alcoholics DO drink mainly for the subjective effects of it.
>>27640956
>leftists
Friendo, it ain't the leftist trying to call it a disease. The only ones calling it a disease are the Bible-bashers called Alcoholics Anonymous, which are pretty damn right-wing.
>>27640982
>The only ones calling it a disease are the Bible-bashers called Alcoholics Anonymous, which are pretty damn right-wing
That and every medical textbook I've come across.
We don't have AA over here so I'm not sure what they're like, but it sounds like they're referring to the process of DRINKING a disease, and not the physical abnormalities caused by it.
You can drink 12 hours a day, if you don't have any physical dependence (structural changes within your brain and NT pathways) then your alcoholism is an addiction, not a disease.
If you do have these physical abnormalities, you have a disease.
>>27640956
I wasn't calling alcoholism a disease. Your response to my post implied I was.
>>27640964
I wasn't disagreeing with him about 12 steps. It's entirely bullshit and started as some meme Christian thing. You don't cure addictions by believing in God.
>>27640294
top
original comment nigger
>>27640678
>>27640221
No fuck that. Alcohol isn't a crutch so much as it is a means to actually have some sort of feeling and emotion. I don't get shakes or any symptoms, I don't get hangovers, but I can start and stop repeatedly just to see if I can. The thing is I have absolutely no reason to stop, I have never had anything nice in my life(in terms of emotional support), I have never felt love, and I give absolutely no shits if I live or die. I am currently bouncing back and forth off of energy drink and drowning myself in half to a full litre a night and I weigh 135lb. Who gives a flying fuck. This has become a form of masochism than anything as an alternative to suicide. The thing is though I am not even suicidal, I just don't care.
>>27640344
Yeah, I believe he went through rehab a few times as well. He reached his absolute lowest point and realized that if he didn't stop, he would most likely die. I think he just kind of woke up and decided his family was more important or some cliche shit.
>>27640898
If you actually went to some AA meetings and listened you would realize you could not be more wrong. Religious ideas of God are not pushed on anyone, people just share their own experiences in sobriety.
The Steps themselves say "God as we understood Him" which can mean anything as is explained in the literature including an AA group or even a doorknob. You're clueless m80, sorry.
t. recovered alcoholic/addict with long term sobriety through AA
