Only terrible things are true. Nothing good actually exists. Prove me wrong.
>>27607583
I can't because you're not wrong.
The way I see it is that existence is a system in free play, not a moral one. Because it is free, there is suffering; the base state of nature is suffering, pain, aesthetic ugliness, cold genetic finality.
To be "good" is to aspire to a perfection and a moral universe that is completely and wholly impossible to satisfy in this one, even in the most fractured way
Any fledgling good is ephemeral or dragged down into filth, cliche, chaos again
To be "good" is basically to reject the world and spit on its values, but the world will always win
>>27607802
I agree except the last part. There is no 'win'. What's won? Instead, I believe both good and evil exist in this world simultaneously. You say nature is inherently evil but I say it is good and beautiful at the same time as well. This simultaneous existence of good and bad is easiest seen in nature. People are way more corrupt by desires we came up with.
I think life is a beautiful thing whether you agree or disagree with me this is subjective.
>>27608254
There is no good. Only evil and self-interest.
>>27608318
Then your comment is pointless, huh?
>>27608318
There is beauty in life but saying life itself is beautiful is more a qualitative statement based on good luck.
>>27608418
Beauty is a totally morally neutral concept and meaningless. It exists only for your own gratification. Now name something that's actually GOOD.
There are aspects of life which can be very beautiful. However living without these beautiful things may only cause pain.
We will all die eventually so we should enjoy the good parts of life while we have the time. If we are in pain then we may choose to endure it to for the sake of experiencing the good things, if not we may just to skip to the end immediately by killing ourselves.
The choice is down to you.
>>27607583
Good means you aren't suffering when you know you are supposed to suffer.
>>27608485
Beauty is a very clear reflection of your genetics. Without it we would all be missformed dumb ugly unevolved creatures that probably would have gone instinct long ago.
>>27608603
>The choice is down to you.
More normiesplaining. The fact that retards like you exist is proof of all I've claimed.
>>27608674
extinct
>>27608674
>Without it we would all be missformed dumb ugly unevolved creatures
So you mean exactly what humans are?
>probably would have gone instinct long ago.
Give it a bit. It's coming.
>>27608485
Nothing is ever truly good, nor truly evil.
A mother which saves food for her children and leaves herself hungry is GOOD. She made a choice to favor family over herself. You might say that it's in her personal interest to have healthier offspring or some shit like that but that's given. She is still making the effort and the sacrifice to help her children. Being good or rather trying to be good is admirable because it is never easy.
>>27608700
Yes because we live in a time where we are forced to ignore inferior racemixing. We are exactly ignoring beauty for a fast growing society and a big crowd of dumbed down people by technology in the wrong hands of people.
>>27607583
Every time something good happens to somebody, something bad happens to another person. Its impossible for all humans to be happy at the same time.
>>27607583
All things exist within the mind, so if you do not perceive good, then there is no good. Likewise, in my reality, if I perceive good, then there must be good, because all things exist within the mind.
How is something instead of nothing a bad thing?
Nothing is objectively good or bad, not even your own existence.
All that exists is meaninglessness.
>>27608892
That is not what Berkeley says, at all. You forget about the god being the ultimate perceiver, all things exist within gods mind, not yours.
Lrn2Idealism
>>27609281
I know.
All things exist within God's mind, but our perception of them is within our mind. That is to say, we perceive that which God's mind has perceived; however, it is still our perception as well.
>>27609345
Why post that bullshit with a picture of Berkeley? Some poor soul might be deluded into thinking thats what Berkeley thought
If you leave a room do the things in that room cease to exist just because you arent there to perceive them? Are you into solipsism?
>>27609345
In all seriousness tho do you like Hume?
>>27609384
>why post that bullshit with a picture of Berkeley
Because I enjoy perverting people's philosophy down to levels where they are no longer even viable as an actual position.
I kind of like Solipsism a bit, but I would agree with Berkeley that something (that something being God) is still perceiving that room even if I am not there.
>>27609413
I don't read too much on Hume, desu, but I think his position on knowledge is interesting. I'm more of an armchair philosopher, unfortunately, and still a total pleb.
>>27609499
I actually think Hume is one of the most accessible philosophers, he wrote in English so you dont have to rely on a good translator. He is really clear on his principles and I really dig Hume's skepticism, I would recommend it if you actually like philo
>>27609572
I will look in to him, definitely. Still amassing books, so I should be able to work it in.
>>27609636
http://www.earlymoderntexts.com/assets/pdfs/hume1748.pdf
If youre alright with ebooks most of modern/classical philo is available online. No excuses now!
>>27607583
Nothing is good or bad. Its just the way you choose to look at things in life. Dumb people are usually happy because they dont think or bother about things truly are.
>>27609662
Thanks, familia.
Putting it on my backlog (which is too large as it is), but my reading has accelerated with the start of House of the Dead.
>>27609715
>>27609636
Hume comes to terms with the inherent uncertainty of everything, including our failure to accurately predict anything 100% and at the same time applies reason to probability instead of the certainty we crave, it is a very powerful text! The history behind it is great too, this really helped the scientific method get its start
What else do you read?
Only for us. The (first) world is actually great for most people. But for us it's a terrible place, because we get all of the bad things, but none of the rewards. Even worse still is the feeling that the world is marching on without you.
>>27609745
Most of what I read is just regular history, but I read the occasional Tolstoy & Dostoevsky when I can. Also have a few theological books, but haven't started with them yet. When I was younger, I read a bit of Engels, but I am not sure how much I fully understood him.
>>27609841
> Tolstoy & Dostoevsky
Wow, I was not expecting you to have good taste. Whats your favorite work by Dostoevsky? I really like 'the Gambler'
And theology? Western or eastern? I have to go sober for an impending drug test so Ive been pouring myself into books, Id welcome any recommendations
>>27609905
I've only just started (only 19 atm) Dostoevsky with House of the Dead that I already mentioned, but I am falling in love with his style, and my older brother already has an extensive collection of his books, so I hope to start Notes from Underground or The Brothers Karamazov after I am done with it.
I like reading them both, but I am Eastern Orthodox, myself.
>>27609959
Yeah if you like history I can see why you like House of the Dead, thats book is heavily influenced by Dostoevsky's experiences. His style is captivating, isnt it? He is actually my favorite author, I love Russian lit a whole bunch though so my biases are strong. Why Notes from the Underground or Brothers next?
Huh! That is one religion I havent read a lot into. Whats the name of the foundational text, if there is one?
Personally, Im agnostic but I love reading theological texts. Im getting my minor in theology so Ive read a little from every significant religion and Ive completed the texts for the main world religions. The history and culture present in those writings is pure gold, you can really see how it influences society
Anything that exists has it's counterpart. To say evil does not exist or good does is irrational, since it depends wholy on the eye of the beholder. The biggest evil can give birth to the highest good and vice-versa.
Embrace one side of the coin all you would like, declaring the other as void is a high folly.
>>27610095
Notes because, well, hey, social isolate, so it seems interesting. Brothers Karamazov because I have heard a lot of the thought within it is interesting. The part I like most about what I have seen of his style thus far is how little attention is paid to the narrator/protagonist; he seems more like just our way of experiencing the situation and other characters, and is himself more of just a background character; that, coupled with the rather non-traditional narrative is very interesting.
Well, Eastern Orthodoxy is Christian, so the Holy Bible (though, I would look for a Church approved translation, because the Church is Greek in origin and its interpretation and translation can differ greatly), but there are probably several hundreds of works, by all the saints. An interesting thing about Orthodoxy is the chants. Because the Church started out in a time where so few people could read, the Church did (and still does!) promote its theology largely through chanting, so you can find metaphysical questions in them. I am only just converting, but one major difference between the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches is the view of sin. In the west, it is usually viewed as a crime, but we view it as more akin to a disease (that is to say, it is involuntary, but still wrong).
I'll try and find some stuff by famous Saints for you who are noted for their writings.
>>27610315
>Holy Bible
I have only read the King James translation, so I will look into an orthodox translation to read. I have a few classmates who have also made the jump from the catholic church to the orthodox church and they feel much less guilt and shame, among other things. Do you live in an area with a large orthodox population?
I would really appreciate the list of saints and writings! I have experience reading medieval catholic works ( mostly Aquinas ) so I could power through those for sure.
I would actually save the Brothers for last btw, I think that book is so hyped up that you should really get to know Dostoevsky as an author so you have a feel for his philosophy before you read his magnum opus.
The majority of human beings on this planet actively go against the basic human instinct to survive. If that doesn't tell you that something's fucked up somewhere down the line then what will?
>>27610462
I'm in Middle TN, so there is a pretty small population; however, we are pretty quickly growing. The Greek patriarchate has a huge Church in Nashville, but the one I go to is American, and is smaller (though, with Lent, we have people from surrounding areas coming as well).
Probably the most extensive of the Church Fathers would be Saint John Chrysostom, Archbishop of Constantinople, along with Basil the Great, and Saint Gregory of Nazianus, Archbishop of Constantinople (together making up the Three Holy Hierarchs. I have not read them before (I am still entry level), but since you are a student of theology, their work might interest you and this site looks like it will probably have some of them:
http://www.ccel.org/index/author/A
>>27610659
Thank you anon, have a nice day!
