>decide it's time to get help for my crippling social anxiety
>spend weeks trying to muster the courage to make phone calls to doctors
>finally sit down and pull up the list of phone numbers
>first one goes straight to voice mail
>"I'm sorry, I'm not accepting new patients at this time."
>hear the same message for the second, third, fourth phone number until i've exhausted the entire list
What the fuck? How are people supposed to get help in this country?
>>27539762
>European "medical care"
Supply and demand at work
At least its "free" though you fucking cuck
>>27539781
I live in America you nigger.
Has anyone else had this problem? Is there a way to contact my insurance provider and have them find someone for me?
>>27539789
Obama care intereferes witht he free market causing shortages
>>27539762
Get some alcohol, makes it way easier to call. Also use google to find out what you're supposed to do, sounds like you're calling the wrong numbers or something.
>>27539762
Holy shit, just the thread to talk about my first visit to what was supposed to be a therapist turned psychiatrist because my parents are retarded story!
Here goes!
>what're ur probloms mate?
>"social anxiety and brain fog because of it"
>okay so heres what we can do
>Shills ssris super hard, then says the church of Scientology is behind most of the negative shit you hear about them
>Beta blockers
>benzos (He said you couldnt get addicted to these things, this is when it really sunk in what a shit bag psychs are)
I just wanted some god damn CBT and to talk to someone but my passive dad did no fucking research on the guy his stupid ass "take a pill for every problem" wife recommended.
Holy shit I'm definitely not going anywhere they tell me to now.
>Well let me write you a script for xanax and zoloft, you can take the xanax to make you not feel so bad about taking the zoloft. See me in a month.
Yeah, totally not going to that shit.
>>27540051
Very disturbing how they give out anti-depressants like candy.
>>27540051
If your parents are so retarded then look for your own therapist you retarded underaged fuck.
>>27540217
>"watch out guys its another church of scientology shill!!!!!"
-that guys psych.
>>27540280
Because its impossible for someone to live with their parents and be forced to go to a psych because he does jack shit all day outside of work and uni, and clearly has no friends.
Stop projecting anon.
>>27540051
Meh, I take high doses of SSRIs and Beta Blockers for anxiety and depression.
Also have a therapist I see from time to time.
I have little doubt I'd be dead by now without medication.
Sure, they're not perfect, but allow me to actually function, earn a living and keep a roof over my head.
Personally, I think people are far too quick to dismiss prescription medication.
>>27540398
Sorry to hear that you're having such a rough time in life anon, my problem is mostly related to an avoidant disorder that I feel I could fix and control without medication.
I only feel this way because I was forced into a retail job and the customer service being expected of me led to a huge reduction in my general anxiety, it's still there and all but I want to take the proper steps to try to fix it with a therapist before jumping straight to the end game of pills.
Take the proper steps then if those don't help get on the med train. That's how I'm looking at it.
>>27539762
>muh crippling social anxiety
the answer is obviously dipshit therapy and meme pills.
>>27540287
>if you question the meme pills you have to be a Scientologist
>>27540506
>avoidant disorder
>'disorder'
cured by a job. it's a miracle!
>>27540506
>Sorry to hear that you're having such a rough time in life anon
Sympathy not needed anon.
I'm doing pretty fucking great. Successful in my field. Live with my fiancee. Plus recently made redundant with a 6 month full pay package.
So currently I'm being paid 14 pounds an hour to sit at home playing video games and shit posting on 4chan.
Mental illness is an illness, just deal with it and get it treated like any other illness then get on with your life.
>gtfo normie
Not a normie, just not an autist.
>>27539762
>living in America
>not being able to make an appointment 30 minutes in advance and just walk in
>paying out of pocket for a doctor
good thing you don't have socialist healthcare
Social anxiety isn't a real condition.
>>27540744
What makes you say that?
It's a similar kind of psychological defect as a phobia I think.
>>27540679
>Mental illness is an illness, just deal with it and get it treated like any other illness then get on with your life.
Bwahaha. mental illnesses are a meme. They can not be treated, and have never been 'cured' (because they're not real).
Stop believing in nonsense OP, and try behaving like a man, not a whiny pussy boy.
>>27540683
>good thing you don't have socialist healthcare
pays 50% of their income in taxes
>free healthcare
>>27540788
Sure thing anon.
You know better than millions of medical professionalso and countless scientific studies.
You're such a clever little special snowflake.
>>27540891
>medical professionals
bwhahaha. You fell for that? More like shills for the pharmaceutical industry, and huckster 'therapists' who get paid to pretend to care about your problems.
Let me know when any of the frauds cure one of their made up disorders.
>>27540744
The increase in heart rate, shakiness, and panic attacks that I get from social interactions aren't real? Please explain.
>>27540815
>implying universal healthcare is more expensive than the insurance system in america
Top fucking kek m8
>>27541037
PUHleeze. Again, there is nothing physically wrong with you. You fucking huckster.
Anxiety attacks are all in your head. Period.
>>27540051
Get those benzos and down a couple with a strong mixed drink. About the only time i am happy.
>>27541061
Yeah, dump 20 mil nogs in whatever country your in's healthcare system, and see how that works out for you.
>>27540949
>>27540788
>Serotonin, adrenaline, dopamine and norepinephrine aren't real.
You're thick as shit anon.
>>27541124
Bullshit nigga. Go to the emergency room with one of your fake ass panic attacks. I fucking guarantee they refer you to a psychiatrist.
>Serotonin, adrenaline, dopamine and norepinephrine
Of course they're real dipshit. That doesn't men they are legitimately tied to your bullshit 'anxiety' disorder. That's a HUGE reach.
You're intellectually dishonest as shit anon.
>>27541173
Study some basic psychiatry, biology and neuro science buddy.
>>27541285
You're wrong and you know it. Are you the product of a single mother, or do you actually have a cuck father who indulges your histrionics?
>>27541315
Haha, super subtle changing of the subject and resorting to infantile insults upon the realisation that you have no idea what you're talking about.
You're super smart kiddo! Good job! :^)
>>27541315
You're a big guy, with that haughty attitude and all
squeeze me tight~~
>>27541406
Again, go top the emergency rook with your bullshit. See what happens.
Again, THERE ARE NO PHYSICAL MANIFESTATIONS or SYMPTOMS OF MENTAL ILLNESS.
All they have is some ambiguous catscan images from inclusive studies that haven't been proven to be definitive of anything.
Stop wanting to be a victim. Every adult who isn't your mom, and who you're not paying, sees right through this nonsense.
>>27541173
Yes - you would be referred to a psychiatrist for panic attacks. What point were you trying to make here?
>>27541538
The one I wrote the first time. That's there is nothing physically wrong with you. It's a fucking meme.
Why do you millennial kids buy into all this bullshit?
Adolescence is supposed to be trying. When you're being tested, or the going gets hard, it's not ok to just declare yourself 'ill', dope yourself to the gills, and play the victim.
It's both a waste of your life, and incredibly insulting to people with actual illnesses.
>>27541486
If it were an illness that manifested itself physically, it would be a physical illness
An illness that manifests itself mentally is a mental illness
Are you implying that schizophrenics are just faking it?
>>27541622
I believe in 'crazy', sure.
Do I believe in shit like avoidant personality disorder?
Fuck no.
>>27541622
>An illness that manifests itself mentally is a mental illness
And as such, can't actually be 'diagnosed' and certainly can't be treated or cured.
It's huckster central.
>>27541721
>>27541692
Schizophrenia has no physical symptoms but you believe that to be real, why not disorders like depression and anxiety?
>>27541617
>That's there is nothing physically wrong with you. It's a fucking meme.
Do you not understand that there is literally no distinction between the subjective mental effects people feel and the physical conditions in their brain? I'm not bashing your point, many cases of mental illness can be fixed with mindset changes and things like diet and exercise, but to say that it's "not physical" and "just in your head" is to ignore biology and neuropsychology completely.
>>27541749
>Schizophrenia has no physical symptoms but you believe that to be real,
No, I believe in 'crazy'. I have zero interest in the made up strands of 'crazy' these charlatans have made up (none of which there is any cure for).
Of course something like anxiety is real. But it's not a disease.
Depression used to be known as 'sadness', and again it's not a disease.
>>27540815
>50% of income in taxes
Taxes where I live are a flat rate of 10% if you're under 100k. Only a fraction of that goes towards healthcare.
Most people will pay more into the system than they receive but you never have to worry about what happens IF you get fucked.
Its basically free considering that so long as you pay that 10% of your income, or even don't pay anything if you're not in a tax bracket, you can get millions in healthcare if you need.
tldr:
>make 30k a year
>pay 3k taxes
>get some illness
>get as much healthcare as you want for free
sounds awful, doesn't it?
>>27541768
>Do you not understand that there is literally no distinction between the subjective mental effects people feel and the physical conditions in their brain?
Completely unproven. Literally a theory.
> and neuropsychology completely.
I don't necessarly discount it. I just don't have blind faith in it. When they can prove any of their claims, I'll take it seriously. As of now, they can't.
The fact that most of this lies in grey areas, absolutely does bring out every fraud and phony going. Both 'patients' and 'doctors'. You can't fake a tumor I guess.
>>27541820
>Disease - a disorder of structure or function in a human, animal, or plant, especially one that produces specific signs or symptoms or that affects a specific location and is not simply a direct result of physical injury.
In the case of mental illnesses, the specific location affected is the brain. There is scientific evidence that cognitive behavioral therapy can "cure" a person of anxiety. Why do you speak so strongly of things you know nothing about?
>>27541486
Let's break down your idiocy shall we?
>go to the emergency room with your bullshit. See what happens.
That's akin to saying:
"Go to the podiatrists with your head wound. See what happens."
>THERE ARE NO PHYSICAL MANIFESTATIONS or SYMPTOMS OF MENTAL ILLNESS.
Other than proven chemical and neurological manifestations, (not sure what definition of 'physical' you're choosing to use.)
You seem to be getting confused with the term 'mental illness'. If the primary symptoms of an illness are "PHYSICAL MANIFESTATIONS", that's what we call a 'physical illness'.
>All they have is...
There are multiple fields of science dedicated to and countless studies proving the existence of metal illnesses.
Amazing anyone would think otherwise.
Then again many people deny evolution etc, so we should never underestimate the stupidity of the human race.
>Stop wanting to be a victim
Far from it kiddo.
You're the only one who seemingly wants to be intellectually raped around here. :^)
>>27541869
why don't you just tell us where you live Anon.
>>27541102
yes its in your head
how does that make it not real
>>27541486
>THERE ARE NO PHYSICAL MANIFESTATIONS or SYMPTOMS OF MENTAL ILLNESS.
http://hmg.oxfordjournals.org/content/15/20/3024.short
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0165032704000291
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006322306011917
http://archpsyc.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=481799
there are way, way more, but scientific journal websites are a bitch to actually search into
I can't tell if you're baiting or are just dumb
>>27541907
>Literally a theory.
You don't know what the work "theory" means, do you?
But humor me, where then do those subjective effects come from? The soul? How can there possibly be subjective cognitive effects without the corresponding physical causes within the brain?
Just go to the ER next time.
>>27541921
>"Go to the podiatrists with your head wound. See what happens."
He was the one talking about his serotonin and adrenaline levels. I told him it was bullshit. I'm right. Sorry, if that triggers you.
>Other than proven chemical and neurological manifestations, (not sure what definition of 'physical' you're choosing to use.)
Nope. You have a little problem with the truth Anon. There are no proven physical manifestations of mental illnesses. Sorry.
>There are multiple fields of science dedicated to and countless studies proving the existence of metal illnesses.
Yes, the psychiatry and phamacutical industries publish tons of studies valdating their own work (and let's be real....income). So what? Prooves absolutly nothing. There are entire departments of crediblwe universitores dedicate to studying the bible. Doesn't make it real.
How can you prove it when (again )THERE ARE NO PHYSICAL MANIFESTATIONS or SYMPTOMS OF (ALLEGED) MENTAL ILLNESSES? It's literally faith based.
Are you of the opinion that calling some 'kiddo' somehow makes your meme pseudoscience real?
>>27541936
so you believe>>27541975
Sorry, but I nsist of the scientific method. Non e of t in trans-women?
>>27542063
>THERE ARE NO PHYSICAL MANIFESTATIONS or SYMPTOMS OF (ALLEGED) MENTAL ILLNESSES?
again, see >>27541946
You can literally google "mental illness brain imaging" and get thousands of peer reviewed scholarly papers proving you wrong, but I can tell you're not the type to even consider that your views might be mistaken so I'm not sure why I'm bothering
>>27541975
>You don't know what the work "theory" means, do you?
yeah i do. And what you're talking about doesn't hold up to the scientific method.
>But humor me, where then do those subjective effects come from? The soul? How can there possibly be subjective cognitive effects without the corresponding physical causes within the brain?
We don't know. And maybe never will.
Doesn't that sound a little more realistic that these fake meme disorders, and the drugs they used to try and treat them?
>>27540815
>pays 100% of their income on patching up the bulletholes from the maniac who couldn't get treatment for psychosis
Beginning to think the "herp, mental illnessespecially donot exist" fuckwit is just attention whoring.
Either way, as I said, it's like trying to argue with a creationist. A bit fucking futile.
Some people really are that dense and will deny something despite overwhelming, proven evidence.
What I don't understand about this kind of person, is: Do they really think so much of themselves, that their baseless opinion over rules the work of millions of scientists at the top of their field and decades of study?
I can't imagine what it must be like to have that much mindless self belief.
Must be kinda nice.
>>27542151
Are you going to keep ignoring >>27541946 ?
I mean shit, I'll make it easy for you
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Mental+illness+brain+imaging+studies
>>27542179
I love how he's refuting people with "no ur wrong I'm right" whilst ignoring the guy who posted links to a load of studies that found definite physical neurological differences in those with mental illness
It's obvious he's here to argue rather than to potentially learn anything
>>27542063
>There are entire departments of crediblwe universitores dedicate to studying the bible. Doesn't make it real.
Yes... universities have humanities departments. The purpose of the humanities isn't to perform scientific research. This might be the most retarded argument I've seen in a while.
>>27542110
>You can literally google "mental illness brain imaging" an
This has NEVER BEEN PROVEN. It's theories/studies.
When they can isolate a disturbance in the brain, and successfully treat it, I'll change my opinion.
Not holding my breath.
>>27542179
Higher power freaks, for the most part.
No help what so ever.
>>27542110
>You can literally google "mental illness brain imaging" and get thousands of peer reviewed scholarly papers proving you wrong
You get psychologists defending psychology. It's tautological.
The other anon is right. There have been a lot of studies, and no conclusive evidence of anything.
>>27542219
Do you know what else is just a theory? Gravity. Just because we don't know the exact mechanisms by which something occurs, doesn't mean it's all a big hoax pushed by the pharmaceutical industry. Are there ethical problems in over-prescribing medication? Absolutely. But to suggest that there is a massive conspiracy within the scientific community is pretty silly.
>>27542179
>proven evidence.
It doesn't exist.
There is actual evidence of evolution.
>>27542249
>You get psychologists defending psychology. It's tautological.
You mean an expert might be defending a position in their own field?! Do you also think climate change is a hoax?
>>27542211
Neuropsychology =/= humanities
>>27542219
>This has NEVER BEEN PROVEN. It's theories/studies.
You must be trolling
Please elaborate on the difference between theories formed based on the evidence gleaned from a multitude of studies and "proof"?
>When they can isolate a disturbance in the brain, and successfully treat it, I'll change my opinion.
Well SSRI's are pretty effective, and we've created many other synthetic drugs that can at least help with the symptoms of mental illness.
Why do you hold a completely arbitrary metric for it being a real field of study? Neuropsychology is a very new field, it's like someone in the 18th century saying they won't believe doctors aren't hacks until they can successfully treat massive trauma or malaria.
Like, there's no way you're not trolling
No one can be this sure of their own opinions whilst also being so retarded
>>27542311
>Neuropsychology =/= humanities
I know, that was my point. Comparing humanities to a scientific field makes no point whatsoever.
>>27542249
>You get psychologists defending psychology. It's tautological.
No, you get neuroscientists showing off peer reviewed data from long term studies using advanced brain imagine techniques.
NONE of the people involved in any of those studies is, or is anything close to, a "psychologist". and the fact that you can't grasp the distinction pretty much shows that your opinion means nothing.
>>27542185
It's theories/studies dipshit. None of this has been proven.
When they can isolate say 'depression', prove phsycailly it's existence, and come up with a treatment that they can prove physically works, I'll believe it. They absolutely fucking can't.
The real question is why do you have to stoop to such levels to try and prove you're sick? I think 99% of the time, that will lead to the real answer, much more than brain scans ever will.
>>27542345
Exactly? The point is that all of the studies posted had absolutely nothing to do with humanities and everything to do with advanced neuroscience and neuropsychology?
>>27542369
Why do you care so much? Were you diagnosed with autism or something and now you're in denial because you don't want to believe it's true? You're getting awfully emotional over this.
>>27542209
He hasn't posted one legitimate study. He posted a goodle search which takes you to a bucnh of psychology sights.
It's like referring someone to the Church of Latter Day Saint's website to 'prove' the teachings of Joseph Smith.
>>27542211
Just believing anything out of academia in 2016 is a stretch. Hard science of gtfo.
>>27542439
Neurology is a hard science. How are you this misinformed?
Out of interest, Mr "metal illness doesn't exist".
>What do you think the brain is?
>How, at a simple level, do you think it functions?
>Do you think the brain is connected to emotion?
>Do you think neurological connections and chemical receptors within the brain somehow are something to do with how it functions?
>Do you think the addition or lack of certain chemicalsituations in the brain can affect the way in which it functions? (Why dont you try dropping a dozen tabs of acid to see if it makes any change to your sensory perception for a participatory, practical experiment.)
Think about these questions and your answers to them.
Maybe, just maybe, then you'll realise how much of a silly sausage you are.
>>27542275
>But to suggest that there is a massive conspiracy within the scientific community is pretty silly.
My two best friends are real MDs. They laugh at psychologists.
Point being, there is no such consensus in the scientific community. Far from it.
>>27542369
>It's theories/studies dipshit. None of this has been proven.
HOW CAN YOU NOT BE TROLLING
I'm drunk and bored, but please, humor me here
Elaborate on the difference between what you consider "proof" and hard evidence gathered from peer reviewed scientific studies that is collated and refined to form theories by the same scientists doing those studies?
>When they can isolate say 'depression', prove phsycailly it's existence, and come up with a treatment that they can prove physically works, I'll believe it. They absolutely fucking can't.
Why on earth is that your metric for believing them? You're literally coming up with an utterly random milestone upon which to base your acceptance? 20 years ago we couldn't have even comprehended imaging the brain in real time to gather physical evidence relating to mindstates, hell, 100 years ago we couldn't have comprehended someone surviving a serious infection?
Please, just actually elaborate on your points rather than just repeating the same inane shit over and over again and I will believe you're not trolling
>The real question is why do you have to stoop to such levels to try and prove you're sick?
What are you even on about? No one is trying to "prove they're sick", we're trying to grant you a basic understanding of the scientific method
Mental illness doesn't exist. Neither does global warming or evolution. These are conspiracies created by ISIS to harm America. Trump 2016!
>>27542309
>their own field?
Their fucking 'field' doesn't even confirm to the scientific method. It's not science. And because of that, it is susceptible to all sorts of political and financial influence. Sorry.
Psychology and Psychiatry are a scam designed to push your face deeper into the mud beneath the heel of the Passionate Elite. Only with self-led therapy based on personal rules can you improve your condition without becoming a slave.
>>27542415
>psychology sights.
>http://hmg.oxfordjournals.org
>http://www.sciencedirect.com
seriously, please try harderyou realize that, in the google search, you need to click "scholarly articles" to get the actual neuroscience papers rather than the clickbait articles? I don't blame you for not knowing what "scholarly" means.
>>27542488
>My two best friends are real MDs. They laugh at psychologists.
Well, yeah? But no one ITT is talking about psychology, we're talking about neurology or neuropsychology, and there's a BIG difference
No offence, but what help are you looking for? What did you think they do? There is no cure for mental issues, however people can talk to you if you wish. I hope you do not think help means taking away your problem. That must be dealt with for life. As you get older, you will get less anxious anyway. They can not just give you alcohol or something. They will tell you to just calm the fuck down.
>>27542311
>Neuropsychology is a very new field
Exactly. And when it behaves like an actual science, I'll respect it as such. Until then...
>that can at least help with the symptoms of mental illness.
THERE AREN"T ANY!
And the there is 'no way you're not trolling' technique, doesn't help your position. It's like saying 'c'mon it's 2016'.
>>27542415
http://www.jneurosci.org/content/35/15/6020.short?sid=ce4ca37d-0b1a-49ac-a7bf-22de87f71557
>Trait anxiety predicted the microstructure in pathways to the ventromedial PFC and OFC, indexing weaker connections in trait-anxious persons. These effects appeared in the right hemisphere, supporting lateralization and top-down inhibition theories of emotion processing. Whereas a specific microstructure is associated with an anxious personality, a different structure subserves emotion regulation. Both are part of a broad fiber tract network between amygdala and PFC.
http://www.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev.neuro.31.060407.125618
>We focus on four domains of cognitive function that are altered in patients with depression: executive control, memory, affective processing, and feedback sensitivity. These alterations implicate a distributed neural circuit composed of multiple sectors of the prefrontal cortex in interaction with subcortical regions (striatum, thalamus) and temporal lobe structures (amygdala, hippocampus). Affective processing and feedback sensitivity are highly sensitive to serotonergic manipulation and are targeted by antidepressant treatments. By drawing together cognitive, neuroanatomical, and pharmacological tiers of research, we identify treatment targets and directions for future investigation to identify people at risk, minimize relapse, and maximize long-term beneficial outcomes for those suffering from depression.
These are just two to show you that there is absolutely neurological evidence of anxiety and depression; the internet is your friend anon.
>>27542345
No one wqas comparing them assholes. The point was that the presence of academic studies isn't automatic validation.
>>27542604
>Exactly. And when it behaves like an actual science
You mean like performing peer reviewed objective experiments and using the data gathered to form theories about the subject?
If not, what exactly do you mean?
Please elaborate on how it's any less of an "actual science" than any other field?
>THERE AREN"T ANY!
again
http://hmg.oxfordjournals.org/content/15/20/3024.short
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0165032704000291
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006322306011917
the list goes on man, I understand that "you must be trolling" isn't an argument in itself, it's just very hard not to think that when you're directly ignoring a multitude of peer reviewed scientific papers giving direct evidence against your position.
>>27542414
I just no a bunch of frauds when I see them. There is nothing wrong with anyone of this board. Just shitty parents and arrogance.
All these fake ass disorders are ridicolous, and should hav ebenn dismissed a long time ago.
Defacto, what they wind of doing, is enabling a bunch of phonies, and frauds, and hucksters, and drama queens, and ne'er-do-wells, and all around deadbeats.
And the people who make $ off them.
>>27542633
You're right, but I would consider scientific research published in peer-reviewed journals a credible source of information.
>>27542633
>The point was that the presence of academic studies isn't automatic validation.
No one's claiming that it gives "automatic validation", just that when this guys argument rests on the claim that
>THERE ARE NO PHYSICAL MANIFESTATIONS or SYMPTOMS OF (ALLEGED) MENTAL ILLNESSES
and there are a multitude of peer reviewed brain imaging based neurology studies proving him wrong, it's hard to take him seriously
>>27539762
I went through this same thing when I was trying to get a new pain management doctor.
Go see a GP, he'll refer you to a dr who is accepting patients
>>27542604
I completely agree mate.
No fucking proof at all for metal illnesses existing. It's all just bullshit to sell drugs, skilled by to pharmaceutical industry.
They said my nan had dementia. Bullshit. I bitch slapped her until she remembered my name. Was blatantly faking it.
Fucking attention whore, always playing the victim.
>>27542550
>http://hmg.oxfordjournals.org
You linked an order form of a journal you haven't read. Brilliant.
>>27542683
>I just no a bunch of frauds when I see them.
Well shit, you got us there. Better go tell those neuroscientists at oxford that they wasted all those tens of millions of pounds on those advanced brain imaging scanners and all those years on their phd thesis' and that all their work is a fraud.
>>27540679
>"""""not a normie"""""
>I'm doing pretty fucking great. Successful in my field. Live with my fiancee. Plus recently made redundant with a 6 month full pay package.
>thinks he can talk down to other people about a mental illness he clearly doesn't have
Fuck off. Just fuck off. How do you faggots even find this place?
>>27542571
>But no one ITT is talking about psychology, we're talking about neurology or neuropsychology,
Nope you started talking about that after your first line of meme psudeoscience was exposed.
Brain scans are always the last line of defense for you frauds. It's your desperate grasp for the physical evidence your theories /claims lack.
>>27542782
See >>27542621
I'll try to find some more for you senpai
>>27542621
THEY ARE STUDIES. What is hard to understand about this. There is no conclusive evidence.
>>27542744
Wait, what?
I linked the website that hosted
http://hmg.oxfordjournals.org/content/15/20/3024.short
The first article he posted, that clearly says in the abstract
>We therefore performed an association study of the DISC1 gene with MDD and schizophrenia. We found that Cys704 allele of the Ser704Cys single-nucleotide polymorphism (SNP) was associated with an increased risk of developing MDD (P=0.005, odds ratio=1.46) and stronger evidence for association in a multi-marker haplotype analysis containing this SNP (P=0.002). We also explored possible impact of Ser704Cys on brain morphology in healthy volunteers using MR imaging. We found a reduction in gray matter volume in cingulate cortex and a decreased fractional anisotropy in prefrontal white matter of individuals carrying the Cys704 allele compared with Ser/Ser704 subjects. In primary neuronal culture, knockdown of endogenous DISC1 protein by small interfering RNA resulted in the suppression of phosphorylation of ERK and Akt, whose signaling pathways are implicated in MDD. When effects of sDISC1 (Ser704) and cDISC1 (Cys704) proteins were examined separately, phosphorylation of ERK was greater in sDISC1 compared with cDISC1. A possible biological mechanism of MDD might be implicated by these convergent data that Cys704 DISC1 is associated with the lower biological activity on ERK signaling, reduced brain gray matter volume and an increased risk for MDD.
I'm not sure what your point is? Should I read the entirety of every study I cite as evidence? I'm a marine biologist, not a neuroscientist m8
>>27542483
Got nothing bub?
>>27542701
>again
>http://hmg.oxfordjournals.org/content/15/20/3024.short
>http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0165032704000291
No it's not. There have been peer reviews psychology journals and studies for years and years.
Doesn't make them anymore then theoretical. And doesn't make psychology somehow conform to the scientific method.
>102 replies
>21 posters
>>27542782
>Brain scans are always the last line of defense for you frauds. It's your desperate grasp for the physical evidence your theories /claims lack.
I really don't understand your point.
If brain scans aren't hard evidence, what would be?
>>27542813
>THEY ARE STUDIES. What is hard to understand about this. There is no conclusive evidence.
WHAT ARE YOU ON ABOUT?
Studies provide evidence? The data gathered from these studies is LITERALLY EVIDENCE BY DEFINITION
No, there is no conclusive all encompassing theory of these mental illnesses because they're REALLY FUCKING COMPLICATED. Just because there's no conclusive theory doesn't mean anything about the efficacy of the evidence? How can you not grasp this? There's no conclusive theory of gravity yet, does that mean that we can ignore the fact that things fall towards the earth?
>>27542738
The r9k manboys want o believe it so badly because either they're looking to externalize blame for their issues, they're looking to be treated with the sympathy reserved for people with actual illnesses, or they're looking to get out of working.
this is true of most adults who buy into this nonsense.
>>27542769
kek.
Do you think it's more of a sign of being mentally ill if you're depressed when tfw no gf, tfw no job, tfw no money or if you're depressed when you have those things?
>>27542738
>dementia.
Not a mental illnesses. nice try.
>>27542813
Lmao do you even know how scientific research is performed/evaluated?
>>27542857
>There have been peer reviews psychology journals and studies for years and years.
excerpt the links aren't psychology, they're neurology
>Doesn't make them anymore then theoretical.
except from the fact that the're based on experimental data rather than theory
Did you even open the links m8? Surely even someone with no grasp of the scientific method can see that when studies are talking about complex brain imaging and specific neurotransmitter pathways being affected that it's well beyond the real of theoretical psychology?
>>27542881
>If brain scans aren't hard evidence, what would be?
There is no evidence. I mean the scan is real, but beyond that, there is little proof that they know or understand what they're looking at.
>>27542954
>there is little proof that they know or understand what they're looking at
Lmfao. Nigger you've gone full retard. Tell me, do you believe in climate change?
>>27542938
Lmao. Are you under the presumption that psychology conforms to the scientific method?
Hint: it doesn't and never has.
>>27542954
>there is little proof that they know or understand what they're looking at.
you mean besides the extensive methodological and theoretical description and peer review by other scientists at the top of their fields with decades of experience?
>>27543002
>Lmfao. Nigger you've gone full retard.
How many of these brain disturbances have they successfully isolated and treated?
I'll wait.
>>27541692
>dropped out of college because I was too scared to go to class; would worry so much about how I was sitting or what I was doing with my hands that I couldn't focus on the material
>takes me a week to work up the courage to wroite a simple email, something a normal person could do in two minutes without a second thought
>when outside, sorry about the way my shadow projects on the ground; think people are laughing at me because of it so I try to "fix" it by constantly readjusting my body
>walk manually all the time, terrified people think I'm walking weord
>can't look people in the eyes, instinctively put my head down when passing people like a scolded dpg
>zero friends, of course
>voice gets embarrassingly high-pitched when talking to anyone
>can't sleep the night before I know I'll have to go outside for therapy
>recognize how irrational and nonsensical my behavior is but this does nothing to alleviate the fear
>"DUDE YOUR DISORDER'S NOT REAL LMAO"
Fuck you.
>>27542844
Still got nothing bub?
>>27543009
repeat after me
THIS. ISN'T. PSYCHOLOGY
It's neuroscience, and I'm sure if you went to a research university and made that comparison to a neuroscientist you would get a slap
>>27543032
>>27543045
applies
>>27543057
>I can't type
Kill me.
>>27543009
The articles I posted were not psychology. You would know that if you read them. Tell me why you think neuroscience does not conform to the scientific method?
>>27543045
You've yet to explain what the has to do with anything? presumably you also wouldn't have believed in any of the preceding research done into any illness in history before they could easily treat said illness?
>>27543057
ahh boohoo...anon is scarred and awkward, and precious, and apparently shameless. He's obviously physically sick.
grow the fuck up and stop with the histrionics, you goof.
>>27543070
I agree that neuroscience is a legit field.
It really has little to do with shit like: >>27543057
>>27543102
Meaning you can claim APD or ADHD or PTSD is real all you want to.
tAgain, the point is, there is no realy physical evidence of any such thing. Therefore there are no 'cures' for any such thing.
it's legitimately, just feelings. They're not physical illnesses.
>>27543116
>>27543174
Where then do you think those feelings come from? It's obviously not a matter of just "thinking differently" because these people are fully aware that what they're feeling is completely irrational and nonsensical, yet they can't stop feeling that way.
Do you believe in some kind of soul from which they stem? You keep on saying that the feelings have nothing to do with the physicality of the brain yet offer no other ideas as to how these feelings come about?
>>27543249
>tAgain, the point is, there is no realy physical evidence of any such thing.
See the multiple neurology studies people have posted showing that you're demonstrably wrong
>Therefore there are no 'cures' for any such thing.
What does that have to do with anything? For one, we have made myriad drugs that do treat the symptoms of such things, and even then, are you honestly saying that any and all experiments and research into something is completely moot until we can conclusively "cure" said condition? Should we just give up on cancer research because there's no "cure"?
>>27543249
>it's legitimately, just feelings. They're not physical illnesses.
And where do feelings originate? Not the brain? What is the brain if not a physical thing? And if that physical thing leads to the production of aberrant behavior, is that not illness?
>>27543058
Seriously anon. You got nothing?
Welp, we're all cleared up here.
>>27543452
I don't know why people are still replying to these guys. They're blatantly either trolling or autists so entrenched in their position they'll ignore any and all evidence to the contrary
>>27543116
>feel debilitating, irrational fear that I realize is irrational
>interferes with my life, condemns me to my house
>innately terrified of people, scared they'll make fun of me
>GROW THE FUCK UP LMAO PUSSY LOL
Okay, tough guy. If you were in my situation, what would you do? Step out of your condescending normie bubble for a second. I want you to genuinely imagine yourself in my shoes. Extreme fear around others that precludes you from being yourself. Unable to do simple things like get a cup of coffee or write an email. Neurotic behavior to the point that you're studying your shadow whenever you're outside and worrying about what others think of it. Feeling very alone and afraid at all times of the day. Being surrounded by people whose normal lives are so far removed from your own that they seem like fantasy worlds to you. What do you do? How do you live? Tell me.
>>27543385
>Do you believe in some kind of soul from which they stem?
Oh come on. We both know they could just as easily stem from bad parenting. Socialization. Insecurity. Intelligence. Hubris. etc. etc. etc.
Trying to isolate the root as some sort of brain disturbance, that can be isolated, and , is a TREMENDOUS stretch.
>What does that have to do with anything?
Faifr point. There wan't a cure for Polio until there was.
But with cancer, hepatitis, diabetes etc. etc., there is physical evidence of the disease. When they treat or attempt to treat the disease, progress can be monitored in a real way.
This can not be said for psychology.
>>27543396
But we don't know that there is anything physically wrong with the brain. These issues aren't affecting physical health.
>>27540051
>>27540051
good job man. i wish i less gullible like you. i've taken 10 antidepressants. they're poison
>>27543499
Save it for your mommy, the therapist mommy pays, or whoever you have to con to get NEETbux.
I'm not interested in your adolescent sperging.
>>27543527
>Oh come on. We both know they could just as easily stem from bad parenting. Socialization. Insecurity. Intelligence. Hubris. etc. etc. etc.
Apart from the quite large body of evidence that there are recognizable physical discrepancies in the brains of people with these conditions.
They may well be influenced by those things, but just because they ma play a part doesn't change the fact that there IS physical evidence.
>This can not be said for psychology.
There's literally no way you can't be trolling, either that or your reading comprehension is at a <3rd grade level.
NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT PSYCHOLOGY
We're talking about actual, evidence based neuroscience. You know, one of the most advanced fields of biology that uses state of the art brain scanning techniques to recognize these physical discrepancies in the brain, for which there is myriad evidence of which you've been COMPLETELY IGNORING
>>27543612
So are you admitting that you're a troll or what? Because you're not trying very hard here
>>27543636
>Apart from the quite large body of evidence that there are recognizable physical discrepancies in the brains of people with these conditions.
you started out w/ bullshit. Not reading the rest.
>>27543612
Good one, now answer the question.
>>27543580
>But we don't know that there is anything physically wrong with the brain.
YES, WE DO
We can objectively measure that there are noticeable physical differences between the brains of healthy people and those with these conditions.
>These issues aren't affecting physical health.
No, they're affecting mental health, which the entire body of evidence suggests is directly correlated with the physical state of the brain.
How are you this dense?
>>27540051
>You can't get addicted to benzos
what a quack
>>27543636
>NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT PSYCHOLOGY
tbf, the thread was about 'social anxiety', which would almost always fall under the realm of psychology.
You moved the goal posts to 'nueropsychology' in an attempt to provide the need for physical evidence your argument needs, that psychology completely ignores, and can not provide.
>>27543527
>But with cancer, hepatitis, diabetes etc. etc., there is physical evidence of the disease.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26769550
> The analysis revealed a reliable network of regions predicting individual differences in trait anxiety. Higher trait anxiety was associated with stronger connections between the amygdala and dorsal anterior cingulate cortex, an area implicated in the generation of emotional reactions, and inferior temporal gyrus and paracentral lobule, areas associated with perceptual and sensory processing. In contrast, higher trait anxiety was associated with weaker connections between amygdala and regions implicated in extinction learning such as medial orbitofrontal cortex, and memory encoding and environmental context recognition, including posterior cingulate cortex and parahippocampal gyrus. Thus, trait anxiety is not only associated with reduced amygdala connectivity with prefrontal areas associated with emotion modulation, but also enhanced connectivity with sensory areas.
Tell me, why do you not consider that physical evidence?
>>27543674
>you started out w/ bullshit.
You mean bullshit like those peer reviewed neuroscience papers from oxford, one of the most prestigious research institutions in the world? That bullshit?
>>27543672
becuase I don't give two shits about Anon's sperging.
PUHleeze. If I took into account all his anecdotal behavior based evidence (feeling sorry for himself), I'd have to belive every goth kid is sick and not just going through an adolescent phase.
I'm just treating Anon's testimony the only way it deserves to be treated...as adolescent tales of woe.
ANTIDEPRESSENTS MAKE YOU DEPENDENT ON THEM
They turn you into a feverishly happy good goy wagecuck
Yet when you stop taking them you immediately want to kill yourself
How to people fall for this?
>>27543738
It's not "moving the goalposts", it's citing the large body of hard evidence on the subject?
Psychology is, by definition, the study o the mind gleaned through experiments based on subjective human interaction and "feelings", whereas neuropsychology is a study of the same basic ideas, except investigating how they actually relate to the neurological (read, physical) processes going on in the brain.
They are two different fields studying the same thing in different ways, psychology being subjective and neurology being objective and experimentally based.
You're the one pointing out (rightly) that psychology in itself can't give any real hard evidence, then claiming that when someone cites the actual real hard evidence they're "moving the goalposts"
>>27543527
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24273717
>The findings demonstrate that widespread gray matter structural abnormalities are present in a well-powered study of patients with depression. The patterns of gray matter loss correspond to the same brain functional network regions that were previously established to be abnormal in MDD, which may support an underlying structural abnormality for these circuits.
You don't consider structural abnormalities in the brain physical evidence?
>>27543718
>We can objectively measure that there are noticeable physical differences between the brains of healthy people and those with these conditions.
We're not even sure of that. Half of the 'differences' in the brain scans are often caused by the medications already prescribed to the patient.
For the 100th time, they have no definitive prof of anything, yet alone some brain abnormality they could isolate and identify as the cause of something like 'social anxiety'.
Got any more pseudoscience for us? Are you just going to call me kiddo or say 'you must be trolling' again? I mean' it's 2016, c'mom!
>>27543794
and presumably you also don't give a shit about all of the hard, experimental evidence that people have been posting?
Well I take it you just don't give two shits about evidence in general, and are happy to insult and ignore anyone who actually refutes what you're saying with facts?
>>27543750
>peer reviewed
You use this more than a tumblrite.
Get back to me when they isolate and cure anxiety and depression.
I'll wait.
>>27543872
>Got any more pseudoscience for us?
>literal peer reviewed neuroscience papers from fucking OXFORD
I know saying "you must be trolling" is a meme, but come on man, you're making it easy for us
>>27543872
You know you're talking to multiple people kiddo?
Also, srsly bub? :
>>27543452
>>27543911
>they haven't cured it yet so it's not real
>>27543862
an excerpt of an excerpt. sweet.
>However, existing knowledge about structural alterations in depression is equivocal and based on cohorts of limited sample size.
Left that part out.
>>27543911
You keep on saying this as if it's a valid point?
again, do you believe that any and all evidence and research into a subject is irrelevant until we can conclusively "cure" the condition?
please actually elaborate on your points instead of repeating the same few inane non sequiters over and over again and smugly saying "ill wait" as if you're winning
>>27543926
No, you've posted excerpts from a bunch of shit you've googled, and have not read.
Half of them, likely admit to not having conclusive evidence.
>>27543738
No one's moving goalposts, you're changing your argument. You claimed that there is no physical evidence for mental illness, period. Go back and read the thread buddy.
>>27543872
See >>27543862 and >>27543749
>>27543911
Scientists cannot explain the exact cause of gravity, does that mean gravity doesn't exist?
>>27543960
I mean, It's 2016 kiddo. C'mon! You've got to be trolling.
>>27543976
Well yeah? Of course it's equivocal, it's going to be equivocal until we can conclusively "cure" depression like >>27543911 is prattling on about. That's how the scientific method works. But saying "they're not sure!!" does absolutely nothing to refute the large body of evidence suggesting that that is the case.
So far, we've posted a hell of a lot of hard evidence against what you're saying, and you've done nothing but insult people and backpeddle to try and ignore it.
So please, post the studies and evidence you're basing your views off of? Or do you mean to tell me that there are none and you're so sure of your position because "you just know"?
>>27543976
It's almost like they've never read the peer reviewed 'evidence' they keep posting.
>>27543976
>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24273717
Hey, dipshit. That was the point of the study. Read the next sentence next time.
>However, existing knowledge about structural alterations in depression is equivocal and based on cohorts of limited sample size. This study used voxel-based morphometry (VBM) and surface-based cortical thickness to investigate the structure of these circuits in a large and well-characterized patient cohort with MDD.
>>27544084
>it's going to be equivocal until we can conclusively "cure" depression....
It's almost like it's a t-t-theory.
>>27544084
>until we can conclusively "cure" depression
you mean when they ask me how sad I am this week on a scale of 1-5, I say 2 instead of 4.
kek.
>>27544012
>No, you've posted excerpts from a bunch of shit you've googled, and have not read.
Well, yeah? That's how citing sources works? Have you read the extensive methodology of the papers?
The whole point of an abstract is to give the basic set up, methods, results and conclusions of a study in an easily readable format.
>Half of them, likely admit to not having conclusive evidence.
Again, do you have any idea how science works?
There is almost no such thing as "conclusive" evidence, only multitudes of evidence that can be gathered and used to form a theory. But so far, from the limited evidence we have, the vast majority seems to be pointing to there being physical discrepancies in the brains of people with these illnesses.
>>27544105
Since you clearly don't understand what a scientific theory is, I'll help you out
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory
>A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that is acquired through the scientific method and repeatedly tested and confirmed through observation and experimentation.[1][2][3][4] Scientific theories are the most reliable, rigorous, and comprehensive form of scientific knowledge.[5]
So yeah, I guess you are right. I would consider the neurological basis for mental illness a theory.
If any of you anons think they're ever going to cure things like 'depression' or 'anxiety', you're fucking retarded.
The rest of this shit is just practice for debate club.
>>27544105
>It's almost like it's a t-t-theory.
Do you actually know what the word "theory" means in a scientific context? Because I'm pretty sure you don't
Please explain your understanding of that word
As anons have pointed out, gravity is "just a theory", as is everything we know about the universe and how it functions. A theory is the highest point of scientific merit an idea can have other than being a law, and those don't really exist in biology.
>>27544142
>Well, yeah? That's how citing sources works?
No. That's not how that works. Citing sources requires actually reading and understanding the source.
>>27544217
So presumably you've read the methodologies and results of the studies you're refuting?
>>27544153
>So yeah, I guess you are right. I would consider the neurological basis for mental illness a theory.
It's all I've ever claimed.
You faggots can go back to trying to con your mothers into believing you're sick and can't work.
>>27541108
blackout squad, xanax and beer every night its kinda getting outta control though
>>27544280
>It's all I've ever claimed.
>Scientific theories are the most reliable, rigorous, and comprehensive form of scientific knowledge.[5]
So we're in agreement then? good
>>27544259
No. But I'm not trying to use them as evidence, now am I?
>>27544280
>You faggots can go back to trying to con your mothers into believing you're sick and can't work.
le depression isn't real :^)
just b happy bro
just pull urself up by le bootstraps :^)
>>27544280
>You faggots can go back to trying to con your mothers into believing you're sick and can't work.
the fact that you keep on going back to this argument when only one anon ITT has actually talked about themselves being affected by this shows just how little else you have to say that's relevant
>>27542087
Learn English. Also, don't talk about things you don't know anything about.
>>27544297
>>Scientific theories are the most reliable, rigorous, and comprehensive form of scientific knowledge.[5]
When they're tested over and against the scientific method.
When they're not....they're memes.
Again, to bring it full circle, 'social anxiety' is a meme.
>>27544311
Then what exactly are you using as evidence?
I'm relatively sure that scientific papers, even inconclusive ones, are more evidence than none at all
>>27544349
Again, see >>27544088 and >>27543862
>>27544321
>just pull urself up by le bootstraps :^)
sweet, some left wing sloganeering to wash the pseudoscience down.
>>27544349
>When they're not....they're memes.
okay, but do you have anything, anything at all, backing that these ones are not?
It's your "no ur wrong!" against a huge body of scientific papers and research. If you want people to take you seriously and stop calling you "kiddo" then it would help to actually substantiate what you're claiming in some way or another.
>>27544332
OMG, typos. C'mon it's 2016! Nice catch kiddo.
>>27544371
just be yourself bro, don't be depressed brah
>>27544371
Please, for once, don't be retarded and actually elaborate on exactly why you feel that this is psuedoscience?
>>27539762
>upset because he went to voicemail
Yea. I'm not even trying to troll. I think you're a bitch for that.
>>27544382
You have proven jackshit. You posted literally micro-summations of really long academic research papers, that by your own admission, you haven't read
That again, have yet to identify, isolate, or successfully treat something called 'social anxiety'.
You've got to be trolling me kiddo.
>>27544406
>just be yourself bro, don't be depressed brah
It's muh grey matter.
>>27544470
>I am angry at you because you are mentally-ill, even though this doesn't affect me at all and only serves to make your life miserable, something you are no doubt acutely aware of at all times
Normalfags, everyone!
>>27544493
>That again, have yet to identify, isolate, or successfully treat something called 'social anxiety'.
You've yet to explain why this is relevant in the slightest, and continue to ignore the fact that multiple people have called you out on it
>>27544470
>I am angry at you because you are mentally-ill
Normalfags, everybody!
>>27544406
>I'm a fat retarded lazy arrogant anti-social assholes, who spends all my time masturbating, playing video games, and sharing my 'feels' with other degenerates on the internet.
or
>There is something physically wrong with my brain that produces an illness known as 'social anxiety'.
Where does this 'social anxiety' come from?
I know which one I'm betting on.
>>27544621
>Where does this 'social anxiety' come from?
That's exactly what these neuroscientific studies are trying to find out
>>27544621
>degenerates
There's that buzzword again!
>>27544493
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0010945215001896
>Task-related left dlPFC activity was indexed by relative left prefrontal EEG (inverse alpha), and conflict-related dACC activity was indexed by the N2r component of the event-related potential. Stronger activity in both regions predicted better response control, and greater social anxiety was associated with worse response control. Furthermore, for all participants, greater left prefrontal EEG activity predicted better behavioral control, but for high social anxiety participants only, greater N2r responses also predicted behavioral control. This pattern suggests that low social anxiety individuals engaged a proactive control process, driven by dlPFC activity, whereas high social anxiety individuals relied additionally on a reactive control process, driven by conflict-related dACC activity. These findings support a model of control that involves different patterns of interplay between proactive and reactive strategies and may help to explain self-regulatory impairments in social anxiety.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25882042
> Overall our data indicate that spontaneous brain activity is influenced by the degree of social anxiety, on a continuum and in the absence of social stimuli. These Findings suggest that social anxiety is a trait characteristic that shapes brain activity and predisposes to different reactions in social contexts.
>>27544647
Don't even bother man, so many people have posted evidence only to be either ignored or met with "no but..."
>>27544493
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24108802
>Thirteen unmedicated SAD patients and 13 matched healthy controls performed a series of facial emotion and object discrimination tasks while undergoing fMRI. The emotion-processing network was identified by a task-related contrast and motivated the selection of the right amygdala, OFC, and DLPFC for DCM analysis. Bayesian model averaging for DCM revealed abnormal connectivity between the OFC and the amygdala in SAD patients. In healthy controls, this network represents a negative feedback loop. In patients, however, positive connectivity from OFC to amygdala was observed, indicating an excitatory connection.
>>27544621
I provided a few papers on the subject. This time, try to read more than the first two sentences of the abstract.
Lo-fucking-lol at anyone who thinks social anxiety is a neurological disease.
How fucking stupid are you kids?
>>27544672
Make sure to actually read the exceprts from the scientific journals, before you try and convince your mom it's not your fault you're a fucking loser.
>>27544741
You're arguing that there is no physical basis for social anxiety disorder, right? Aren't you going to try to refute the evidence I've provided?
>>27544741
Like I said multiple times, only one person ITT has actually claimed to have these illnesses. Everyone else is just arguing using the available evidence.
Is that really the best you've got?
>>27544672
You're right; suddenly the thread died after I posted evidence. Goddamn some people are fucking stupid.
>>27544693
>Lo-fucking-lol at anyone who thinks social anxiety is a neurological disease.
This, pretty much.
Is joy a neurological disease.
How about temperance?
Doc, I've got ambition. I'm going to need a cat-scan.
>>27545066
read the thread m8, many people have posted many links to studies showing lots of evidence that it is, in fact, caused by or at least directly correlated to physical abnormalities in the brain.
>>27545066
ITT: retards who know nothing about the field of neuroscience
>>27544940
All you dicks did was posted summations of journal entries you've never read or understand, and declared it as definitive proof.
I'm with the other anon. 99% of these mental illnesses are memes that the mental health industry not only capitalizes on, they invented them.
>>27545066
>Is joy a neurological disease.
>How about temperance?
Those are both brain states, yes. As is anxiety, in proper amounts. However, the definition of an illness is a condition or abnormality that negatively effects your daily life, hence levels of anxiety far higher than the norm that cause one distress and difficulty in their day to day life, is an illness with a physical, neurological basis.
I do love how everyone arguing for this point has been posting links to actual studies and evidence while everyone against is just making meme posts and saying "yeah no you're wrong"
>>27545097
>an.
>>>
>Anonymous 03/31/16(Thu)23:20:46 No.275450
No they haven't. They posted a bunch of links to acamdic papers they didn't read.
If anxiety is a diease, why isn't joy? Aren't all emotions manifested in brain activity?
What's the healthy brain, that there using as a control to compare these 'diseased' brains to?
All this shit sounds ridiculous.
It sounds like tumblr tier nonsense tbqh.
>>27545161
>Those are both brain states, yes. As is anxiety, in proper amounts. However, the definition of an illness is a condition or abnormality that negatively effects your daily life, hence levels of anxiety far higher than the norm that cause one distress and difficulty in their day to day life, is an illness with a physical, neurological basis.
What's the healthy control brain they're comparing it to?
All of this sounds hella subjective tbqh.
>>27545137
>All you dicks did was posted summations of journal entries you've never read or understand
You don't need to understand all the hard science behind a journal post to cite it's conclusions. That is quite literally the point of the abstract.
>and declared it as definitive proof.
No one's claimed it's "proof", they're evidence, and quite a lot of it at that. Which, while not "definitive", is certainly a lot more convincing than a bunch of anons saying "no you're wrong because I know you are"
>I'm with the other anon. 99% of these mental illnesses are memes that the mental health industry not only capitalizes on, they invented them.
I completely agree that a portion of peoples "mental illness" is imagined through social conditioning and expectations and that the US at least doles out meds like candy, but how is that in any way evidence that the genuine illnesses do not exist?
>>27545137
I read the studies that I posted. I'm a science student, I understand how to read scientific papers unlike most of the idiots ITT. Tell me, did you read them? If so, can you explain specifically what methodical error makes the data inconclusive? What evidence do YOU have to refute mine?
>>27542369
>loses his shit and autiscally and rabidly claims that mental illness doesn't exist
ironic
>>27545236
Blah blah. You don't know what you're posting. Aint hard to tell.
>>27545227
Controls were used here >>27544689
and the first paper here >>27544647
>>27545205
>>27545227
>What's the healthy brain, that there using as a control to compare these 'diseased' brains to?
Again, read the papers
Most of them use a control group of otherwise healthy people with no reported history of mental illness vs a group of people with diagnosed mental illness, and virtually all of them found recognizable physical differences in the brains of the latter group.
>If anxiety is a diease, why isn't joy?
Because an illness, by definition, negatively effects one daily life
Mania, the state of uncontrolled happiness and excitement to the point of social and mental disruption, is an illness.
No ones saying that anxiety in itself is an illness, just that massively over inflated and completely irrational senses of it are, just as with any emotion.
>>27540217
i went to an actual doctor and right then and there she prescribed me with zoloft and xanax without even knowing much about me at all.
>>27545267
Care to refute anything I've said or...?
>>27545205
Yeah whats the model brain, that these diseased brains are deviating from.
>>27545267
Please. Anon clearly has a doctorate in googlology. He wrote his dissertation on the finer points of whipping up a bunch of pseudo-scientific nonsense, to use as cover for your professional victimhood.
>>27545326
xanax and zoloft are so babby tier pills though so they will give to anyone that asks
>>27545347
The many control groups of people with no reported history of mental illness used in almost every one of these studies? did you actually read any of the links posted?
>>27541936
he's just retarded and shit posting, ignore him
>>27545360
so many people are saying things like this ITT but no one has yet pointed out how not-fully-understood cited evidence is trumped by no evidence at all
>>27545360
Anon, please explain the methodical problems posed by >>27544689 and
>>27544647
Pseudo-science does not follow the scientific method; since you've claimed that all the papers posted here are pseudo-science, you should be able to explain specifically how these papers deviate from the scientific method
>>27544186
>If any of you anons think they're ever going to cure things like 'depression' or 'anxiety', you're fucking retarded.
this pretty much.
The rest of it is a bunch of snowflakes trying their damnedest to legitimize themselves as sick.
>>27543911
>cancer doesn't exist because we haven't cured it yet
And yet you keep posting it
>>27545372
Please. all you're doing is making them sem even more subjective.
>>27541946
>>27542185
There is a part of the brain called the hippocampus that controls emotion and memory. people who are depressed this part of the brain greatly shrinks and when they were in recovery and getting better this part of the brain was becoming normal sized again. So it is proven that the brain can literally be affected by things such as depression
>>27545421
There is an overwhelming body of evidence that support the effectiveness of CBT in treating anxiety
You obviously have done no research and you're forming opinions based on your personal feelings
Kindly fuck off.
>>27545400
We're not pretending to understand the human brain.
We know they don't either. And most likely ever will.
Doesn't keep them from pretending 'social anxiety' is a disease though.
it's pretty ridiculous.
>>27545455
>t. Someone who doesn't know how to read a scientific paper
>>27545455
Please explain how? as >>27545411 said, pleas read through the paper and explain the methodological errors made by these groups of neuroscientists working out of some of the most prestigious universities in the world?
It's not like these are psychology majors proselyting about how ill they feel, these are neurologists at fucking oxford doing peer reviewed and substantiated experiments using advanced brain imaging techniques.
>>27545488
>it's pretty ridiculous.
Why?
Elaborate?
>>27545411
Because people reporting their feelings isn't quantifiable data. It's literally, inherently subjective. No quantifiable data, no scientific method.
>>27541061
>implying the average person pays tens of thousands of dollars a year for health insurance
oh boy i sure love paying an extra 7% in both income and payroll taxes, now my annual doctor visit and bi-annual dentist visit are free instead of having to pay that awful 40 dollar copay!
>>27545446
And yet tumors. Actual evidence.
(that goofy adolescents and professional charlatans can't fake)
>>27545488
Yes, that is exactly what you're doing. You have been saying over and over again that mood disorders are NOT diseases and that there is no physical evidence for mood disorders. If you're stance is that there's not enough evidence to be definitively sure, then your argument is null
>>27545482
>CBT
kek, you went right to psychology. lol.
>>27545543
>Because people reporting their feelings isn't quantifiable data. It's literally, inherently subjective. No quantifiable data, no scientific method.
THATS WHY THEY'RE DOING BRAIN IMAGING EXPERIMENTS ON THESE PEOPLE, TO GET FUCKING QUANTIFIABLE DATA
The whole point of the experiment was to investigate the OBJECTIVE discrepancies between groups of people who subjectively reported different things. An, if you'd read the papers, they found quite recognizable differences.
What exactly will it take to change your mind? We've been continually posting objective experimental evidence only for you to completely ignore it
>>27545545
oh boy I sure do love not having my family bankrupted if I ever fell seriously ill!
>>27539867
>>27539762
No, essentially they want us to kill ourselves. I've been through the same thing
>>27539781
>>27539932
Retard
>>27545545
Damn where can I get your co-pay only insurance?? Sounds like a great deal
This anon cannot be serious
does he know nothing about science whatsoever? If he is serious, he is the stupidest person i have ever met.
>>27545543
You don't know what the scientific method is do you?
But you're right, it's all subjective, unlike your position. You've provided so much scientific evidence to support your assertion that mental illnesses are a big hoax :^)
>>27545600
>THATS WHY THEY'RE DOING BRAIN IMAGING EXPERIMENTS ON THESE PEOPLE, TO GET FUCKING QUANTIFIABLE DATA
FEELINGS CAN NEVER BE QUANTIFIABLE DATA. THEY ARE INHERENTLY SUBJECTIVE. SORRY. TYPING IN ALL CAPS WON'T CHANGE THAT.
>The whole point of the experiment was to investigate the OBJECTIVE discrepancies between groups of people who subjectively reported different things.
That part, i have less of an issue with. but' it's hardly hard science, and you know it. It's how do you feel on a scale of 1-5 psychology-tier bullshit, with some brain scans thrown in.
>>27545627
>Damn where can I get your co-pay only insurance?? Sounds like a great deal
the co-pay goes way up dipshit.
>>27545628
Have you heard, it's 2016. They must be trolling.
>>27545679
>FEELINGS CAN NEVER BE QUANTIFIABLE DATA.
How are you this dense?
Did you actually glance at even the abstract on the studies?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24108802
Does that really look like "psychology tier bullshit" to you?
The ONLY part of the study that had anything to do with people reported feelings was the selection of the groups to be tested, once that was done, all of the data gathered is very much hard science regarded the physical structure and function of the neural pathways in the brain.
And they happened to find that, between the two groups who reported feeling differently, there were large discrepancies in the physical structure of the brain
How exactly is this not "hard" science?
>>27545679
>brain imaging = FEELINGS
what the fuck man
how low can your iq be?
>>27545645
More arrogant bullshit.
Psychology often does not meet the five basic requirements for a field to be considered scientifically rigorous: clearly defined terminology, quantifiability, highly controlled experimental conditions, reproducibility and, finally, predictability and testability.
Feelings based research is a great example of why psychology isn't science. How exactly should say "happiness" be defined? The meaning of that word differs from person to person and especially between cultures. What makes Americans happy doesn't necessarily make Chinese people happy. How does one measure happiness? Psychologists can't use a ruler or a microscope, so they invent an arbitrary scale. Today, personally, I'm feeling about a 3.7 out of 5. How about you?
I understand just fine Anon. It's you who needs to look up what 'quantifiable' means.
>>27545760
It's perfectly legitimate study, anon is just a retard who probably would have believed man never went to the moon in another life.
>>27545760
See >>27545803
you're straight up wrong.
>>27545814
Now take your meme pills and stop asking questions.
>>27545803
You realize that nothing you've said there is at all relevant because we're not talking about psychology?
You're the only one who has (incorrectly) labeled the topic at hand as psychology, when in actual fact it's a matter of neuroscience which is very much a hard science concerning experimental and quantifiable data.
>Psychologists can't use a ruler or a microscope
No, but neurologists can use advanced brain imaging MRI techniques, which is what we're talking about
your reading comprehension isn't too good, is it?
>>27545714
I'm being sarcastic dipshit. Obviously he pays a monthly fee and his employer pays even more.
>>27545820
see
>>27545840
Again, have you actually read the posted link?
THIS IS NOT PSYCHOLOGY
NO ONE is claiming that it is besides the retard trying to denounce it entirely on the basis that it is psychology, which it's literally not
>>27545838
I don't believe in taking shill pills, but that doesn't mean the mental illness they claim to treat does not exist
