You know that:
> Most marriages end in divorce.
> Most of those are terminated by women
> Married men have less freedom, money and sex
Why mi amigos, why?
>>27486259
Engaged to be married here. Its pretty simple I love him and want to spend the rest of my life with him. He has more opportunity and freedom now. He's got someone who will always back him up, if we got divorced I would be paying him alamony lol
>>27486437Fuck off, straight men only.
When I was younger, I thought when men said "Don't get married" it was a joke, it surely couldn't be bad to form a family with a loving wife right?
Well loving wifes don't exist, they love your money, they love your power, they love your status. They don't love you. When you lose your money, power and status, when you're at your lowest point, that's when they ditch you for someone else, take half of your shit as well the kids and your dog.
Because marriage and children is what humans are naturally inclined to do. It's what we were made for.
Now jews have convinced white males to never get married and never have kids and white females to race mix which will eventually cause europeans to go exist.
I got married and had kids because it's what we are meant to do, and I did it to honour my country and ancestors by continuing their bloodline and populating my country.
>>27486259
I married someone who has demonstrated very strong loyalty, who is basically crazy about me. I rarely get annoyed at her, and her annoyed with me. If we fight, it's an average of 3 mins and even then we immediately apologize.
The long and short of it is that I knew she was the one and she has never disappointed me. She needs me more than I need her but I'm not into sleeping around myself. You just meet a loyal stable person and it all falls into place. Know the signs of crazy before you stick your dick in or sign those papers.
>>27486519
I see the polar opposite a lot. I work at a hospital, a very poor community hospital. A good chunkof my patients are fat pieces of shit with no job, tons of medicaid problems, smell horrible, can't take care of themselves, etc. Yet they still have loving and supportive spouses.
They must be doing something right
>>27486522
that 'honoring your ancestors' is such bullshit
>>27486259
>[Citation needed]
>[Citation needed]
>[Citation needed]
By the way, how old are you?
>>27486576
Good goy. Inheritance shouldn't exist. Everything your family has worked for should belong to the state after they die, not you! Make sure not to argue when we give your country to muslims who hate you,it doesn't matter that your grandpa died fighting for it!
>>27486522
That poor person rationale....
Fuck children, those are the impediment to being a free man, not marriage.
>>27486599
So because I won the genetic lottery and was born to a rich family and inherit a million dollars I deserve that?
>>27486599
I guess I stumped ya
>>27486629
Yes. Your parents made rhe money and want you to have it. Who else deserves it more than you? The stage?
>>27486259
>you wouldnt divorce, because you are a beta
>she wouldnt terminate with you, because you provide for her
>you dont have freedom or sex even now, and you cant spend your money because all you do is jerk off
No reason not to.
>>27486623
Reproducing is literally the most basic and strongest desire of all life, down to fucking viruses and bacteria. It is arguably the meaning of life. It's what every organisms main goal is sometimes at the expense of their own life. Neutering yourself of this desire is to become mechanical and against nature and nothing to be proud of
>>27486259
A number of reasons:
1) I love her and want to spend the rest of my life with her
2) I wanted kids and kids of parents that aren't married suffer
3) I've read actual books and know your points are total bullshit
>>27486519
>My only knowledge of women comes from internet blogs by other bitter virgins
FTFY
>>27486723
So thats why you're having kids?
>>27486769
Wat. That post was about deserving a million dollar inheritance. This post is why I had kids. >>27486740 because I'm a living breathing organism and reproduction is a basic desire all living things are inclined to fulfill. Passing on and continuing your genetic line I would argue is the meaning to life. It's the top goal of the animal kingdom.
>>27486804
Oh, right. I forgot how animalistic we are. Talking on the internet and sheet. Are you religious?
>>27486477
>Married fags report in
>Married fags
>fags
>straight men only
W E W L A D
E
W
L
A
D
>>27486821
>denying we're animals
Yes I am religious but more for the tradition than the literal aspect.
>>27486840
Right. It's like you understand your spot in the universe and just accepted it. I want something different.
I'm 26 and on the fence about marriage and kids. It all depends if i meet a nice woman i connect with. I hope to god that circumstances dont force me to marry a single mom or landwhale later on, out of desparation.
>>27486740
>Neutering yourself of this desire is to become mechanical and against nature and nothing to be proud of
>Not being proud of the ability to rise above the instincts that control the majority of the living creatures on Earth
>>27486259
That reddit post is like desperately trying to utilise a useless humanities degree.
Writes "comprehensive abilities" but lists none, presumably because he's trying to say he has "comprehension skills" and doesn't actually have nearly all abilities.
>>27486592
Almost 50% of marriages in America end in divorce, look it up, it's a well known fact.
Also see pic related
>>27486840
Other mammals which you are comparing us to advertise when they are fertile via smells, coloration, behavior.
These animals only have sex several times in their lives, when they see the signals that an available mate is fertile.
Humans dont advertise fertility. We dont have biological urges to respond to such advertising (which doesnt happen).
Desire to have children in humans is cultural, not biological. Having a child is a much larger investment and danger for a human, pregnancy is much heavier on humans than other mammals, and the child needs to be taken care of for years after birth. Humans arent some huge tower-like rhino that can protect its cub by just existing near it, having children is a big deal, and dangerous to the mother and the group. This is why having children is something you think about, and decide to do when its suitable. It is a matter of reason, culture, tradition, civilization, and not biology.
Humans dont have pheromones and dont go in heat, we dont have an urge to reproduce.
>>27486855
That being said, I would feel bad if my brother wasn't going to continue on my father's last name.
>>27486881
wasn't that study done in the 80's with Boomers? Millennials are actually more traditional on marriage supposedly.
>>27486855
Fair enough. We all make our own choices. If by different you mean ending your genetic line and abandoning all the thousands of years that lead up to you and your land. This is the common attitude in Sweden and germany now and why Sweden and Germany will cease to exist as ethnic groups and as countries in the near future. They will be replaced by people with a strong sense of tribalism and will to continue.
>>2748685
Above is relevant to you too.
>being proud of being so "above" nature that you consciously choose to end your genetic and evolutionary line
>>27486953
>>27486858
Failed at quoting you in that post
>>27486821
I do love the sorts of morons that love science
>"I loooove science!" they say, "Only reason for me! Religion is dumb, I believe in evolution!"
>"Children?!" they cry, "Why would I have children?"
The only thing more humorous is why they try to *argue* that there is no free will.
>>27486980
How exactly would there be free will?
>>27486831
lurk
moar
and
be original
>>27486881
I did, and fun fact; of those 50% of divorces, 75% of them were from previously married (I.E. on their second marriage or more). Meaning that 1st time marriages have a success rate of 75%.
>>27486922
>humans don't have an urge to reproduce.
This must be a joke. Why do we reproduce then? Humans would have ceased to exist soon after they started 200 000 thousand years ago if this were true. You're also denying that paternal instinct exists? Mothers don't give a fuck if their baby is killed in front of them?
>>27486980
Dumbass: The post
>>27486740
Yes, and those unable to rise above their lizard brains are almost universally poor.
>>27486996howsalty.ru
>>27487005
I think we have an urge to have sex, but the *urge* to want a baby may be more superficial than we think
>>27487005
>something happening implies an urge to do it
We dont have an urge to fly either, yet we invented planes.
Humans have urges for sex, not for reproduction.
Not even for proper sex, rather an urge to orgasm. This may lead to sodomy, fellatio, masturbation, etc. Urge is sated, no children involved (hopefully).
Humans dont recognize or seek other humans in heat, humans dont advertise that they are in heat, humans dont have an urge to have children.
>>27486881
>Asked for a citation
>responds "Almost 50% of marriages in America end in divorce, look it up, it's a well known fact."
It is false.
Almost 50% of marriages in America end in divorce, look it up, it's a well known fact.
the highest rate of divorce was about 40% and that was decades ago -divorce rates have been dropping ever since.
>>27486922
>These animals only have sex several times in their lives
translation
>I never even TOOK Bio 300 level courses!
>>27487019
Yes but they also continue their bloodline while those who do "rise above it" die out, making the former the evolutionary success and the latter go extinct
>>27487037
>>27487041
You literally cannot deny that humans have an urge to reproduce. If it weren't true, we wouldn't exist anymore. This is just fact. If we had no urge to have babies then we wouldn't have lasted this long and you'd not be able to find a single biologist to back you up.
Why would humans be the one living thing on this entire earth, going all the way down to the microscopic level, that doesn't want to reproduce?
>>27486995
>>27487008
See?
Look at these morons.
>How exactly would there be free will?
I mean, this is prime humor!
>>27487111
>arguments
>"NO"
>but arguments
>"LITERALLY NO"
How about you actually make a point rather than repeat your disagreement?
>>27487037
>I have never spoken to a woman struggling with fertility issues in my life
FTFY
>>27487062
Oh, here's a direct link
https://www.census.gov/prod/2011pubs/p70-125.pdf
Because I love my wife and I want to be with her forever. We both make our own money and our sex life hasn't changed. We agreed on a prenup, so even if we end up getting divorced neither of us can fuck the other over.
>>27487117
He made his point, chump.
The initial unsupported assertion,
>we dont have an urge to reproduce
has no support.
>>27487134
Im not a woman? im talking about guys cause that's the only perspective i can really understand
>>27487156
Prenups are thrown out by judges all the time, the woman just needs to tear up hard enough, and say you abused her.
Because he got me preggers with our qt daughter and I didn't want her to grow up in a trashy home where her mother talks about her "boyfriend".
>>27487111
The fact that we're arguing why we should reproduce should answer your question in regards to other animals. Animals don't have free will, humans do.
>>27487117
I did make a point. If humans didn't have an urge to reproduce we would have immediately gone extinct 200 000 years ago as soon as we started. I also made the point that literally every living thing has this urge. My entire post was points you ignored.
It is accepted on the most fundamental level by literally everyone who knows anything about science that we have the urge to reproduce.
Will you deny our urge for self preservation too? Is wanting to survive an attack from a bear some kind of higher thought and not instinct? Will you ask for proof that humans have an urge to eat food next?
>>27487179
Sure, but not all women are deceitful whores, as much as you might believe that. Either way, neither of us are planning on getting divorced.
>>27487211
Then we'd have gone extinct already. Your opinion operates on wildly philosophical ideas full of assumptions and assertions while mine operates on he simple fact humans have reproduced and continue to along with every other species and we'd be extinct if we didn't. You could put 2 humans in a cave and have them grow up never learning to speak to have any human contact and they'd fuck and reproduce.
>>27487111
Humans do have the urge to reproduce because evolutionary biology.
However the idea that it's an individual's duty to reproduce to ensure the survival of the human race is batshit insane crazytown what are you doing nigger? It's not your, nor any other individual's duty, to bear the burden of procreating forthe sake of humanity. It's '''''''humanity's'''''''' duty, not the individual's duty.
And this is quantified exponentially when you take overpopulation into consideration.
>hurrrr, I know we're running out of fresh drinking water and cant sustain our current fishing and agricultural rates, but it's my duty to ensure the survival of the human race by making all these problems even worse!
>>27486922
>Humans dont advertise fertility
Wrong.
>We dont have biological urges to respond to such advertising
Wrong
>Desire to have children in humans is cultural, not biological
Wrong
>Having a child is a much larger investment and danger for a human, pregnancy is much heavier on humans than other mammals,
Wrong and stupid
>Humans dont have pheromones
Wrong
The only thin worse than your spelling is your errors of fact.
The only thing more wrong than you is calling Bruce Jenner "Her".
Women emit pheromones when they are most fertile and men can detect them. Women also have changes to their pupils and their walk when fertile, all of which men can detect. Even the pitch of their voices change, which (again) men can detect.
>>27487264
Okay? You're basically advocating to live like a caveman, pleb.
>>27487175
>I also can't read very well
FTFY also
>>27487179
Paralegal in family law here. Despite what you've heard on /r/mensrights they don't just throw them out on a lark. It's important to be able to toss them out in situations where there's an extreme power imbalance, like an investment banker marrying a high school dropout, or if someone lied about their assets.
>>27487272
If you know anything about Biology, you would know humans don't overtly advertise fertility like birds and many mammals do.
>>27487295
how so? I want a real argument about why my statement was incorrect regarding men.
>>27486259
I felt that I had to. I had no other choice, I had nowhere to go and I was trapped in the relationship.
I despised her.
I don't regret it because it got me where I needed to be and gave me great perspective on how I want my life to be and what I didn't want my life to include.
C'est la vie.
>>27487310
>It's important to be able to toss them out in situations where there's an extreme power imbalance, like an investment banker marrying a high school dropout
Why? Being married to someone doesn't give you the right to their property. Or rather, it shouldn't.
If an investment banker married a high school dropout, he or she is a complete idiot and deserve what they get, but disregarding that for a second, this idea that a woman who is married to a rich person should just be handed a bunch of shit for free, just because they traded sexual favors for a couple of years is equally as retarded.
>>27486767
>>27487134
>>27487295
>FTFY
Reddit please leave.
>>27487318
You know there's literally a term called peacocking?
>>27487310
Mi amigo, while you're here I've got a question. I can no longer track it down but I recently saw in Elon Musk's court documents\settlement or whatever (it was in pdf form if anyone can track it down) that the wife gained 2.5% ownership of the marital home for every year they were together, capped at 50%. Is this part of state law or can it be prenupped away?
>>27487269
I never said it's a duty. Duty implies some kind of unquantafiable objective morality. I said it's our most basic and primal urge and then continued to say that's what I use as basis for humans should do which is entirely subjective but I was being asked why I chose to have children.
You are not a robot if you are married.
>>27487310
>/r/mensrights
You should kill yourself.
>>27487294
As well as the entirety of the human race that built things like, oh, civilization.
Let's cut to the chase.
--When I run into a guy in his 20's living with his parents with a lousy 12 hour a week job as a barista who tells me he "doesn't want to be a slave to the corporations, man" I smirk and say 'OK, whatever you want.'
--When I run into a guy with 5 semesters at State University that argues that 'free will is just an illusion, man. We have to decide to reject religion and embrace reason.' I smirk and say, 'OK, whatever you want.'
--When I run into some guy who takes 3 weeks to work up the nerve to ask a girl out for coffee and he says, 'look, man, we aren't animals; having children would just, like, take away my freedom' I smik and say, 'OK, whatever you want'.
Losers do their best to justify their status in life - that will never end.
>>27487365
Yeah, no. Thats pick up artist bullshit. Come back with a scientifically proven feature that human women display when they want to be impregnated.
>>27487408
And sociopathic normies like yourself will always come to a board like this to gloat and think you're so special.
>>27487294
Yes. I am. I'm advocating that what humans biologically evolved to do is what we are meant to do. If you disagree with thst and think humans should live an unnatural new state then that's fine, but you've been defeated by every point I made and it ends with my bloodline continuing and yours dying.
>>27487364
lurk moar, newfag
.
.
.
.
I mean, really?
>>27487408
Im done trying to reason with you. Im not going to just say fuck it and get fucked in the ass by things like tradition and 'muh civilization.' Im not going to try to justify my life for some bitch.
>>27487318
see
>>27487272
Women do.
Not that you've ever been close enough to a woman to notice, right?
>>27487464
Hhaha, good one bro.
>>27487451
>done trying to reason with you
You weren't using reason. You were defeated by reason. It's fine though, no one is trying to force you to do anything or justify anything. Only pointing out that we are designed to reproduce, and thst those who do continue on down the chain and those who don't end everything thst lead up to them.
>>27487511
you win life
>>27487451
>Im done trying to reason with you
poorly spelled unsupported assertions that are false != 'reason'.
I mean, you're one of those morons that thinks '50% of marriages end in divorce' is still even remotely true, you believe women *don't* have noticeable biological changes when they are fertile, and whine there is no urge to reproduce (while probably within arm's reach of your cum jug, right?).
I, personally, am *begging you* to never have kids. Hell, try not to leave your house!
>>27487554
Yeah, you seem like the perfect dad with that patronizing bullshit. Just fuck off
>>27487621
>showing you the hard truths and realities of life despite your hurt feelings
Honestly a quality of a great dad in my books
>>27487621
When one of my sons is full of shit, I call him on it.
It is the best thing to do.
Why didn't your father do that for you?
>>27487408
Delusional: the post
>>27487686
How many resumes did you put out today?
>>27486259
Almost all of my "friends" here are busy getting married, kids and everything. So much that all the income they get, is used on the first 2 days.
How can someone do this to themself? There is no joy or anything to be had.
I'm married. Things seem fine, kid is pretty happy except when he doesn't get to color on the walls.
Idk? Guess I wouldnt mind being able to go out on a date or something with a pretty girl, but other than that there's no real drawbacks. I'd rather have a son than a gf any day, it's awesome.
>>27487215
>If humans didn't have an urge to reproduce we would have immediately gone extinct 200 000 years ago as soon as we started.
This is stupidly false. As stated, we've done many things that we do NOT have an urge for.
We have gone to space, discovered writing, and invented contraceptives.
Do you think humanity has an in built urge to brew and drink alcohol? If not, why are we doing it?
Your model of "if we didnt have an urge we'd never have done it" is stupid. You arent making a point, just refusing to accept facts.
>>27487272
>Wrong.
Wrong.
>Wrong.
Wrong.
>Wrong.
Wrong.
>Wrong.
Wrong.
>Wrong.
Wrong.
>Wrong.
Wrong.
>Wrong.
Wrong.
>Wrong.
Wrong.
Proven wrong. Get rekt, kiddie.
>thinks humans have pheromones and go in heat
I cant believe you imbeciles are allowed to roam free in civilization.
>>27486259
Married men still have more money freedom and sex than robots
>>27487779
How much do they make? Kids don't cost half as much as people make it out to cost. Most of it is in the loss of the woman's income if she chooses not to go back to work.
>>27486522
>you have the right to lose half your shit
>i can get around that, it won't happen to me ;^)))
>>27487779
>they don't waste money on trivial bullshit, they spend it on their family
>There is no joy
A new $60 vidya means nothing next to your child telling you "I love you, daddy"
>>27487863
Where did you go to school, Pyongyang?
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-human-beast/200907/are-fertile-women-more-attractive
The fact that fertile women smell, look, move, and sound different and that men can detect these changes is only documented in about 3,000 scientific studies over 40+ years.
>>27488004
>documented in about 3,000 scientific studies over 40+ years
You listed only one blog, which quotes only one sentence of only four sources, half of which arent peer reviewed, and the other half are badly reviewed, and neither has scientific backing for that particular sentence being quoted.
Humans dont have pheromones. There is zero proof of this. Stop buying snake oil.
>>27486945
Millennials are actually more traditional on marriage supposedly
HAHAHA OH WOW
Thanks Anon, I needed a good laugh.
>>27488093
You're welcome. I'm here all day. Try the steak.
>>27488066
I used to know this girl who was really ugly, but she smelled in such a way as to excite me to the core of my being. I have never known a girl like that ever since.
Humans are animals my friend.
>>27488116
Humans dont have pheromones, you fucking moron. This isnt about your teenage boners, its science.
>>27487960
Maybe not, but free vidya on the other hand is infinitely more enjoyable than some snot nosed kid telling you jack shit.
>>27488130
You are so bitter and I don't know why. I feel like you have a personal investment in this argument. What exactly is it about pheremones that scares you or revolts you so much?
>>27488168
>cant prove him wrong
>i'll call him mad
>>27486519
Don't forget the Wii U
>>27488066
>I won't give citations, I am just right!
>I refuse to follow the citations to actual studies because I AM RIGHT!!
>Human's don't have pheromones
Well, except
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=116833&page=1
that
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/are-human-pheromones-real/
they
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK200980/
are
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pheromone#Humans
Wanna' keep trying, loser?
>>27488181
I just came here to talk about pheremones and odours. Some people just have no chill.
>>27488195
>abcnews sponsored story by perfume companies
>scientificamerican story that concludes "But there is no evidence of a consistent and strong behavioral response to any human-produced chemical cue."
>ncbi.nlm.nih article that concludes "To date, no chemicals have been isolated in humans that meet such criteria."
>a wikipedia article (LOL) that concludes "Despite these claims, no pheromonal substance has ever been demonstrated to directly influence human behavior in a peer reviewed study"
Did you even read these before linking them?
>>27486549
>women
>loyalty
Pick one
>>27486740
Have fun wiping shit off your precious baby and watch them grow up to despise you and then use all your money.
>muh bloodline
>>27488319
Some are loyal. Mine is. I know it blows your mind but we've been through a lot and she never falters or waivers.
>>27488338
I don't understand why you're on /r9k/.
>>27488368
some things posted here interest me.
>>27488368
Not every person on /r9k/ is deluded.
>>27488130
>Ignores science by saying 'nuh-uh'
>tells others his unsupported, false opinions are 'science'
Let me guess - you got C's in school but told everyone you were 'bored because your IQ is so high', right?
>>27488401
Let me guess, you are the person who links articles that disagree with him without reading them? >>27488276
There is no serious academic and well reviewed study that proves pheromones in humans.
>>27488276
>Confirnmed forr not bbeing able to read
You *do* understandd that the articllees say
"Yes, huymans have pheromones, but human reaction is not as strong as in *some* animals', right?
Right?
>>27488421
The articles literally say "there is no reason to think humans have pheromones".
>>27488401
No man that guy was an asshole but he was correct, the empirical evidence is inconclusive.
Now I know personally that the smell of some women is more alluring than others, but scientists haven't actually isolated any compound to label as a pheremone. So therefore to the extent of human knowledge pheremones don't exist.
>>27488417
Which definition of pheromones are *you* using?
If you mean
>chemical cues that cause uncontrolloable responses
then, no
If you mean
>chemical cues that cause some response, even if subliminal
then yes!
You are *ALSO* completely ignoring the well-documented changes in women's voice, gait, pupil dilation patterns, skin tone, and even adipose distribution when fertile!
In short, you are ignoring 9 out of 10 elements to focus on a very narrow definition of a single word to ignore the fact that *yes*, women's scent changes when they are fertile and *yes*, men can detect this.
Stop lying, you dumb fuck - this statement
>>27486922
is WRONG
>>27487115
>Big and hotly debated question in philosophy
>LOL I AM RIGHT
>>27486519
Well I mean you don't know every woman so you really can't say that loving wives don't exist with any confidence unless you just believe shit you make up (a lot of people do). I'm not saying they do exist and I don't even care you're just really wrong to say they don't.
>>27488525
>chemical cues that cause some response, even if subliminal
In that case farting, having eaten onions earlier, or having a festering wound are all pheromones.
>>27487839
Except none of those things are basic instincts related to the survival of the species.
Every living thing down to microscopic bacteria has the urge to reproduce. Why would humans not? It's one of the basic instincts of life along side eating and drinking.
Give any sort of support at all for your statement because all evidence is on my side. If love to see you tell a biologist this isn't a human urge.
>>27488533
Whether you think you have free will or you don't, you are correct. That man was correct.
>>27486522
Marriage is not really natural. In the wild I'm sure Chad-men would horse women in harems while betas tried for a quick rape. Marriage is a social construct and I know for a fact that a lot of women don't even care about sharing a man as long as he's great.
Idk why losers think marriage and monogomy is natural just because they want them. It's a classic case of man prescribing his own logic and beliefs onto nature and refusing to believe it could be different.
>>27488533
It isn't the question that is hilarious, dolt, it is that fact that someone is
[wait for it]
arguing that there is no free will.
protip: if you don't get why that is funny, you need to read more books
>>27488552
Bacteria dont have urges. "Life" doesnt have instincts.
>all the evidence is on my side
Where is it? Show me it!
>>27488577
>Marriage is not really natural
Yeah! I mean, it isn't as if eagles, owls, gibbons, beavers, coyotes, angle fish, or other animals mated for life!
...
...
right?
>>27486519
It is a man's job to care for a woman.
>>27488628
>most dont
>some do
>thus humans most definitely should
>even though animals closest to us dont
>and even though the human penis has literally evolved to scoop out other men's sperm from the woman he is fucking
>>27488525
You were beat. Just get over it
>>27488594
I agree. The very concept is beyond absurd.
>>27488628
So just because other animals do it we must too right? A lot of those aren't even mammals and there are millions of different of fishes (that's correct when speaking of multiple species) saying they all mate for life is stupid.
I think humans would be more like lions where one male gets multiple females and hordes them away. If we weren't we wouldn't have gfs and bfs we would be mated for life with our first love.
>>27488600
>"Life" doesnt have instincts
"instinct: an innate, typically fixed pattern of behavior in animals in response to certain stimuli."
"Urge: a strong desire or impulse."
"Synonyms for instinct include... urge..."
So....
yeah.
Maybe when you work on apostrophes you can work on vocabulary, too, huh?
>>27488692
>>27488594
How exactly is it absurd?
Arguing about free will dosnt imply free will at all.
>>27488628
And geese. There's a lot of them around my areas and they're always in pairs.. Never a goose alone.
>>27488667
Hey, some moron said something moronic and got called - go cry somewhere else
>not knowing gibbons mate for life
>>27488712
Because you have thoughts, dumbass. At least, I do. You know what a cow's thought process is? Eat grass eat grass eat grass eat grass poop eat grass mate eat grass... and of course they don't even have a language to think these thoughts. its just primal behavior.
>>27488705
>bitching about apostrophes
>so.... yeah huh
Medium kek.
And bacteria dont have desires either. Also dont use literally synonyms in scientific discussions.
>>27488712
>Arguing about free will dosnt imply free will at all.
>>27487153
>46% of women in the United States never got married in 2009.
Holy shit.
>>27488739
You're forgetting milking the baby cows part.
>>27488739
Having thoughts doesnt imply free will either.
Considering the situation of all particles in the Universe, you can only be having these exact thoughts right now.
You are a result of all the variables being added together. Your thoughts are predetermined.
I dont say thats how it is or isnt, but this should help you realize why arguing about free will doesnt imply free will.
You can argue without free will, and in fact if there is no free will you cant help but argue, thats the only possible result of this snapshot of all of existence.
>>27488712
It does though. The very concept of an argument implies the clashing of wills, being freely directed by each participant.
Penis Fart
I chose to add that last bit as a testament to the freedom of my will.
Furthermore, I will you a pleasant day/evening and a jolly life, this being a deeper kind of will relating to perspective on life which, again, I have chosen freely to pursue.
>>27488783
You aren't proving free will doesn't exist only that we can't prove it exists. No one is right in this argument philosophy has yet to reach a consensus on this
>>27488741
>don't use synonyms in scientific discussions
How would you know, from watching Star Trek?
apply certain stimuli to bacteria = get certain reactions.
>bitching about apostrophes
Like your atrocious spelling, it just demonstrates your poor education and lack of attention to detail.
>>27488667
Humans have embraced both the promiscuous and monogamous strategies for mating. It's successful and we're successful because both strategies end up with kids. Those with these instincts were better able to pass on their genes because they could play both games.
>>27488769
You're right! you have just settled one of the biggest philosophical debates in human history! congratulations!! You are truly a genius, smarter than some of the greatest minds in history and today!
>>27488600
Yes they do. We don't survive as a species if we don't reproduce therefore we have the urge to reproduce to continue the species. This is the basic concept of evolution and it's all the evidence in the world. It's a basic instinct thay insures the survival of a species. Much like every single living thing had a self preservation instinct, they also have a reproductivr one. If you threaten a person's life they'll try to survive. Is that fake? Is that not a real urge? This is babies first evolution theory. The fact we have survived is evidence despite the fact you rejecting it, much like the fact we die without eating and get hungry is evidence that we have nature urges to eat to survive. If you require actually seeing a source to understand the most basic tenant of biology then here you go
http://public.wsu.edu/~taflinge/socsex.html
>Humans, like many other terrestrial life forms, reproduce sexually. We, like all other sexual creatures, are subject to instinctive sexual desire triggered by appropriate criteria.
>The human male has a drive to impregnate as many females as possible, to create as many offspring with his genes as possible. (Ehrlichman & Eichenstein, 1992)
Would you like me to provide some sources that humans have a basic urge for food and water next?
>>27488770
>https://www.census.gov/prod/2011pubs/p70-125.pdf
in the 25-29 year old range, yeah
>>27488783
A person like you can have the same exact thoughts eventually. Time is infinite, so eventually everything will be repeated. Even if it's 10 trillion years. Eternal return.
>>27488783
>My thoughts are predetermined
Just shut the fuck up you stupid little cunt. Was that predetermined?
>>27488814
What the fuck are you saying? You just agreed with me that marriage is a social construct. When you embrace or adopt a strategy in a culture it is no longer natural. Just because it helps you survive and is taught to each passing generation doesn't mean it's natural.
Besides monogomy has always been for peasants every king had a harem
>>27488807
He wasn't trying to prove that free will doesn't exist, he was just trying to show the other guy how his argument doesn't work.
>>27488830
>The human male has a drive to impregnate as many females as possible
This is obviously false. The human male has a drive to HAVE SEX with as many females as possible.
This drive can be sated using condoms, and can even be sated watching porn and jerking off.
Oh I am laffin
These fools don't understand what a paradox is
>>27488865
>What the fuck are you saying? You just agreed with me that marriage is a social construct.
No, I didn't. Both strategies are natural. One is to make sure a child survives into adulthood. The other is to have so many children that at least one of them should be able to survive to adulthood.
I think you're in denial at this point.
>>27488876
I bet your argument is to just sit there and lurk the comment board.
>>27488856
Of course it was. And so was this. And the next thing, and the next, and the next.
>>27488783
>arguing about free will doesnt imply free will.
"argument: a reason or set of reasons given with the aim of persuading others that an action or idea is right or wrong."
The point of an argument is to
CHANGE SOMEONE'S MIND
if there is no will you
CANNOT CHANGE SOMEONE'S MIND.
>onsidering the situation of all particles in the Universe, you can only be having these exact thoughts right now.
existence has no bearing on the concept of predestination and ignores the very concepts of chance and chaos.
Hell, you obviously can't even grasp the (rather obvious) implications of no free will.
You reemind me of that moron Sam Harris who argues (kek) that there is absolutely no such thing as free will AND runs a lobbying group to influence politicians.
It like a vegan who owns a steak house that sells custom belts.
>>27488600
>Bacteria dont have urges.
Then why do they reproduce? What makes them reproduce or eat? Logic and rational thought? I really don't understand what you're thinking
>>27488879
You're really grasping at straws here man
>>27488816
So you can't grasp the core problem with ARGUING about free will?!
Protip; 'free will' is NOT a serious topic with actual philosophers, it is only an important topic to puddin' heads like Sam Harris.
>>27488899
I think you're confused what I mean by natural. I mean man in the state of nature like I'm caves and shit. No one "got married" and it's unlikely anyone have a shit about loyalty or monogomy to the point of pledging loyalty. It's not natural it was adopted by society and civilizations and is thusly not apart of mans natural state. (When man is in the state of nature).
All this is speculation anyway as no one know what it was like back then. I just think saying monogomy is natural is as dumb as saying self sacrifice is natural
>>27488939
You can conduct an experiment. Wait to get horny, then jerk off while switching porn clips. You will "impregnate" all those women on your monitor, and the urge will go away as soon as you cum.
Yes, no impregnation was achieved. No children fathered. Your seed in a puddle on your desk.
>>27488905
All i'm doing is pointing out that you are coming off like a know it all faggot. If you are trying to convince someone that there is free will, maybe you should make some arguments instead of hurl insults.
>>27488887
ITT: people whose reach exceeds their grasp
>>27488915
Not him, but does changing someone's mind change how things already are? Even if someone believes something completely untrue, it won't actually change anything. Facts and the truth will remain what the are regardless of belief.
>>27488963
>I just think saying monogomy is natural is as dumb as saying self sacrifice is natural
Well then you're wrong because it's a solid strategy for producing healthy offspring that make it to adulthood to made also. It could have easily happened in the prehistoric era.
>>27488972
Why does a dog reproduce. Why does bacteria reproduce. Why does monkey reproduce. Tell me what force drived this since apparently actually scientific sources are disproven by you jerking off.
>>27488975
When someone on r9k stops arguing and starts insulting you you have won the argument. None of this filth will admit to being incorrect and thusly degrade into shit talking when proven weong
>>27488975
I mdfdafd fjdkaospnfoepn oipmn mankoep;no >>27488907
>>27489002
Why do dogs fuck pillows? Why do dogs fuck male dogs?
The desire is for orgasm, not for impregnation.
>>27488975
Query: Do you examine evidence, weigh the possible pros and cons, and then decide what to do using reason and prudence?
>>27489009
That was my 'predetermined' thought
>>27489006
Oh, I guess I won three arguments already, one of them multiple times.
As a side effect, my opinion on the average intelligence of posters here has soured.
>>27489013
So your argument is that bacteria reproduce for orgasm?
>>27489000
>I'm wrong
>COULD have learned a strategy
If it's learned it's not natural. Man naturally gathers many women and keeps them for himself. Women naturally want the best man. Man, with his superior brain, possibly in prehistoric times, figured out a new strategy and followed it.
That's not natural thats learned or constructed behavior
>>27488975
Im probably just too smart for ya, son
>>27486259
I'm married and have been for years. I have sex at least 4 times a week and have been for years. I don't know who's telling you married men never get sex but it's not really true.
Whatever helps you guys cope with being single I guess.
>>27489040
Bacteria doesnt feel desire for sex, no.
>>27489013
And why do we have orgasm?why did we evolve such a thing if not go encourage reproduction?
You are like arguing we eat only because it tastes good
>>27489045
I didn't say learned. You are literally putting words in my mouth.
>>27489026
How exactly does pretending to be retarded prove free will? What are you even trying to achieve here?
Your thoughts are a result of all your past experiences, your current environment (which is a result of past states of the environment) and any stimuli, such as being asked to explain yourself on 4chan.
If we take a snapshot of all variables, everything, and we run it a thousand times, it will always yield the same result.
>>27489057
Then why do they reproduce? Tell me why bacteria reproduces if the feel no desire to
>>27488958
I understand the "problem" you are referring to, but all I am saying is that it is an unresolved problem in philosophy, and people who say things like "WOW WHY WOULD YOU EVEN ARGUE ABOUT THAT HOLY SHIT YOU IDIOT" are not helping the discussion. If the problem you are referring to was really a problem then this debate would have been settled hundreds of years ago. But its still an issue today, and many influential philosophers like Spinoza for instance believed in determinism. So its not just something to sweep under the rug and pretend you have all the answers, it is still big question.
>>27489074
Okay, there's a BIG difference between predetermined and influenced. Learn to be wrong sometimes, bro. its okay.
>>27489058
We did develop the orgasm to encourage reproduction, this is true. It also doesnt prove that we have an urge to reproduce.
We have an urge to orgasm, which may or may not be related to reproduction.
You can orgasm with an infertile woman, or with a pregnant woman, or with a too young woman, or with a man, or by stimulating yourself, or in your sleep.
The urge is to orgasm, not to cause pregnancy. That is a possible side effect.
>>27489061
Then how did they develop the behavior? It wasn't always there? If it's instinctual then why do I cheat on my gf? Why do people divorce? The whole thing seems to go against human nature
>>27489076
As the good frog says, feels good man.
>>27489076
Through evolution and natural selection. Their nucleoid does it all.
>>27489101
If its determined by variables that are determined by the previous state of these same variables, and this can all be traced back to a starting point and calculated anew from there to get the same result, that is exactly predetermined.
You are predetermined to be a moron who cant grasp the most basic concepts.
>>27489103
Why does bacteria reproduce?
>>27488995
If there is no free will then no one decides to do anything. As Sam Harris loves to describe a lack of free will
"thoughts just appear out of the dark".
No choice = you cannot change your mind - thoughts 'just happen' like clouds forming in a Summer sky.
That is the part that always cracks me up - people like Harris and others that advocate the belief that
>"Well, the arrangement of universal particles results in your thoughts"
don't seem to grasp that this demands that concepts like reason, choice, argument, persuasion, debate, justice, and even crime just - vanish into meaninglessness.
Why did that guy rape and murder your mother?
Well, he didn't CHOOSE to, obviously - there is no free will! Thoughts just appear out of the dark!
And I didn't choose to vote for someone - how does that make sense without free will? I responded to outside stimuli and touched the screen a certain way because of electrons, that's all.
Proud of doing well on your SAT?
Knock if off; you didn't choose to study *and you didn't choose which answers to write down*, those thoughts just happened to you like waves on the shore in San Diego!
The hilarious part is advocates simply aren't bright enough to grasp that either we have enough free will to think and decide or we are robotic automatons with no more brainpower than a lilly reaching for the sun
>>27489125
Fuck, that's probably the sickest burn I've seen in a while.
>>27489076
>>27489128
Not because it feels good to do so, so not due to an urge. They dont "feel" a desire to reproduce.
I dont know why you keep bringing this false equivalence up. Humans arent bacteria. Human pregnancy is nothing like bacteria reproduction.
>>27489061
they developed the behavior because those who adopted the behavior, because of a mutation in their genetics changing their instincts, were able to pass on their genes. It's really that simple. It's not even something that has to be learned. It's just a different, and natural, mating style that was probably very advantageous during dangerous times when children could be taken by predators easily..
>>27489122
Lmao through evolution and natural selection? You mean instinct. That's the word for this. Much like why every species does.
>>27489021
Yes bloxsd
>>27486259
Dated four years, so it seemed like a sure thing. She was the shy and nerdy type, but also the only girl who I could have long conversations with without getting bored. She didn't care about TV celebrities and shared many of my hobby interests. She joined the Airforce, so I figured it was either time for a marriage or a breakup. Chose marriage and moved across the country to her newly-assigned base.
It was only afterwards that I found out military life awakens every woman's inner slut. Worst goddamn mistake of my life.
Don't get married. The risk-to-reward ratio isn't worth it.
>>27489146
Instinct? It literally splits into two parts. There is no instinct here, it isnt complicated enough. Its simple chemical balance.
>>27489125
My argument is that you have free will. If you disagree with me on that, Idk what to tell you. I guess me going out to lunch today was out of my control or some bullshit.>>27489134
Faggot ass bitch.
>>27489165
>My argument is that you have free will
great argument
>>27489137
You deny one of the absolute most basic and completely 100% universally accepted principles of biology and evolution at face value. Then when it's expended upon and supported logically you also deny it. Then when given a scientific source from a reputable university you take one sentence thst you do not like and then deny the whole thing because of jerking off.
You are unscientific and your brain is unreachable so I won't continue.
>>27489131
I don't know why you replied to me, considering I pointed out I was a different poster, but I was just saying that belief doesn't change how things are. Facts, truth, all that other stuff. I wasn't discussing free will and just replied to like a line or two in your post.
I suppose my reply wasn't necessary in the first place though, but whatever.
>>27489146
Topkek saying bacteria has instinct.. They don't have that ability.. Literally all they have for what we would call decision making is chromosomes.
>>27489139
See this is where you, and a lot of people, get confused with darwin. There is not always a mutation that changes the behavior. In humans the beliefs and actions of entire tribes are influenced by the tribes success. This is not because of any mutation but because the tribe that adopts behaviors such as monogomy and self sacrifice sees the most success.
This is how behavior is learned and morals are developed. It has nothing to do with nature but rather with natural selection of values.
Read the descent of man by Darwin if you want to actually understand. Your understanding of natural selection is high school biology tier.
>>27489185
>i have no argument, so i will close the thread
Okay, I'll do the same. Should've done it the moment you stopped reading my posts and just blabbered about bacteria.
>>27489165
Whoa, dude, no need to be so hostile. I was just complimenting your sick skills.
>>27489206
Sorry i wasn't very clear it isn't that th DNA of humans mutates it's that the behavior of humans is able to adapt through teaching and learning to become most successful. These adaptations are not genetically passed on generationally (or else no one would cheat except for mutants) but rather passed on through teaching
>>27489182
Did you not read the rest of my comments? Fucking idiots around here man
>>27489086
>then this debate would have been settled hundreds of years ago
It was settled thousands of years ago, actually
>But its still an issue today
only for the poorly educated or the easily confused
>>27489206
There's an instinct to stay by one person. There's also one to be with as many as possible. These are genetic, though both have been supported by cultural bias in the past in different societies. They both easily pass natural selection filters because they are both different strategies for different situations. Thus they would both be passed on. Your ad hominem attack does not make me wrong.
>>27489243
The only arguments you have made are things like "Because you have thoughts dumbass" and "asdl;jsdfkljasd is my predetermined thought" I doubt you even actually have an argument about why you think that determinism is wrong.
>>27489271
Read my second post you only know about the origin of species. the descent of man explains why things like monogomy self sacrifice and altruism exist. This argument is stupid at this point because it's nature vs nurture now but just know you are most likely wrong. Read that book if you would like to learn why.
>>27486259
We were both very honest with each other, she knows my unspeakable fetishes and I know her awkwardly funny fan fic smut.
She accepts my hobbies I accept hers(the fact she even has hobbies is a good plus)
she was and still is a small qt
Are energy levels are about the same
Neither of us want kids
She wanted to be the bread winner and I had no issues with that
I married her 9 years ago and things have been very good with all major drama being outside factors and nothing internal between us. I'm to the level now that when any one pulls the "hurr she'll leave/cheat on you" I just point out I got nearly a fucking decade of an awesome life living with a woman that not only provided for me but loved me and I loved her, I wager in almost 10 years I've gotten more than most people do in a life time so yeah if she follows the r9k woman prophecy of going slut I'll be hurting but I would never trade these moments and happiest I had for anything.
I question if you have the numbers or source to back your claim but the reason those married men have less freedom, money and sex was because they just settled with what would put up with them and didn't either get the courage or put the extra leg work in to find better.
>>27489287
DO YOU HAVE AN ARGUMENT WHY EVERYTHING IN THE UNIVERSE IS PREDETERMINED? All I've heard is that your environment somehow has predetermined every choice I make forever, which is retarded, like you.
>>27489324
Because your thoughts are made of atoms. They are physical things. And atoms interact with each other based on strict rules.
So your atoms, arranged in this one way, can only interact in this one way, and only reach this one conclusion. There is only one next moment possible from this moment.
>>27488577
Parasites and diseases are natural as well, do you think these forms of life are of any good?
No one thinks monogamy is natural, monogamy is cultural and it works for everyone and everyone is happy.
Humans have social monogamy for a reason.
>>27489342
Just garbage.
>>27489370
Yah I'm fine with that this ass hole has spent an hour arguing it's a natural genetic mutation. But also don't diss parasites they got shit figured out
I like the idea of getting married but i feel i will get bored fucking the same woman the rest of my life. And i dont think i would be willing to cheat because i will feel horrible about it afterwards
Any married guys here cheat on their wife?
>>27489310
>You will never be a stay-at-home husband
>>27489499
Cheated on my gf of 5 years and didn't affect our relationship at all (she never caught me). Don't do it if you're the guilty type as your guilt will show and damage the relationship. If you can suppress that shit and get away with it I see no reason not to
>>27489529
>If you can suppress that shit and get away with it I see no reason not to
Life philosophy of the sociopath put very succinctly.
>>27489592
Without saying it's wrong or bad or hurts society (I don't care about society) tell me why this isn't the way I should think
>>27486569
>A good chunkof my patients are fat pieces of shit with no job, tons of medicaid problems, smell horrible, can't take care of themselves, etc.
>Yet they still have loving and supportive spouses.
Their spouses can do no better.
>>27489608
>without saying it's wrong or bad
You're scum and you know you're scum. But then again you're most likely a NEET posting b8 fantasies again.
>>27486259
Because I wanted to, you hippy.
I don't regret it.
>>27489516
who said anything about stay at home?
yes the option is there but I overload on pleasures and just burn out, I keep a small job however every time it escalates to full time work and then I either quit or just stop showing up the full 40 hours.
Currently I'm at Dollar General thinking that be a safe zone where they are greedy with hours but in less than two months I'm working 38 hours while the guys that have been here 2+ years are struggling to get 10 hours.
To make matters worse Ive made it clear to my bosses Im doing this as a time killer and play money and have no investment in the store and somehow Im a better worker than the single mom begging for hours.
>>27489686
I don't care what you think I am or what you call me. saying im scum is the equivalent of saying what I do is bad. You're not better than me for sacrificing yourself and being "noble". Nothing makes that behavior good except for people who adhere to is call you scum if you don't. You know you're wrong and that there is no reason to follow society's moral code unless it makes you happy.
I really do not understand people who get married these days. Why would you willingly back yourself into a corner like that? It basically means you will have to go through a lengthy, costly, and humiliating divorce should something go wrong, and come on, there's a fucking lot that can go wrong. Relationships aren't what they used to be, the sexual revolution basically fucked monogamy in the ass.
You gain nothing from it, the only excuse I have ever heard is "it brought us closer together". Come on, is it really worth THAT? It's like people who pay $50k to go to college "for the experience".
>>27489879
I've told all my gfs this before and they all say
>if you really love someone you'll take a chance for them
It's literally just so a bitch can own you
Once you marry them you're not even hot anymore cuz now they own you. I think most girls want to be owned not own someone.
>>27489904
>i will never do this to a man
>but i have the tools to do that
>>27488577
It actually is natural to be monogomaus for various reasons, especially in that you are choosing the best and most fertile and superior DNA mate.
Polygamy ruins good genes.
I got married and had kids because, gasp, I wanted to. This is the only reason, that is necessary for anybody else to understand. Not going to sell you on marriage. It's hard work, for rewards that you wouldn't understand. When you go into it thinking like some do here, yeah its a good idea, not to marry. For me is worked out great.
>>27490488
It's just a bunch of single morons saying marriage is bad because they'll never get someone to love their horrible personalities.
>>27490530
Marriage is an awful deal for males even if the woman loves their personality.
>>27490566
t .single degenerate male
>>27490618
>resorts to ad hom
>calls other people degenerates
Alrighty then.
>>27490566
Exactly why you shouldn't get married. So worried about what you get out of the "deal", and not for a moment thinking about the benefits your partnership gains. Marriage should be the last thing on your mind.
Is there anything more alpha than fucking a married woman?
>>27490722
>not for a moment thinking about the benefits your partnership gains
You can have a partnership without getting married. You can have a healthy, meaningful relationship without signing a marriage contract.
However, maybe there are some benefits to marriage that I don't know about. Are there any benefits to marriage that would outweigh the possible drawbacks (like losing half your paycheck for the rest of your life?)
>>27490771
>he doesn't know about marriage tax
>> Most marriages end in divorce.
50% do. That's not a strong majority.
And note the demographics; the particular demographics we fall in have much lower divorce rates. Both of our parents and grandparents are still married (or dead).
>> Married men have less freedom, money and sex
My life goal is not to maximize my freedom, money and sex.
I love my wife. Have for years. It simply felt weird, at a point, to not put a ring on it. It honestly feels like the state of being I should be in. I feel liberated now, actually.
>>27490783
I knew there were minor tax benefits, but would that be worth losing half your income for the next decade? Hell no. I'm guessing someone will say "well the best benefit is making your wife happy" but that's what every male says before he's divorce and ends up losing his house, kids, assets and money. Honestly, as much of a "degenerate single male" anons paint me as, if I had a girlfriend I'd do everything to make her happy, except for signing a marriage contract.
>>27490736
Yeah actually being an alpha and running a pack(family). The lone wolf who creeps in an fucks one of the pack, isn't an alpha until he gets his own pack. Until then he's just a scavenger.
>50% of modern marriages end in divorce
>women who sleep around at a young age (ie all of them) have high chances to cheat
>Having kids when the world is crumbling away
>Wanting to get JUST'd
>>27490809
t. cuckmaster extraordinaire
>>27490829
This is where confidence fucks robots every time. Spend so much time thinking what if I/it fails, that you never try, or never enjoy what is currently good.
>>27490830
Nah, in primate tribes if you fuck the leading alpha's bitch you are now the alpha
You are escentually being better in every way than her husband, humiliating him and taking his earned woman.
>>27490891
>implying anything in life is good
>>27490891
I actually completely agree with you but I still think marriage is a scam for males. Flip a coin, tails and you lose half your paycheck for a decade. There'd have to be an amazing prize on heads for me to take that gamble, and "furthering your relationship" doesn't seem worth it when women initiate divorce 75% of the time.
