I have a lot of free time.
Is ego death and or depersonalization something I should aim to achieve?
Is it any easier to assert your will upon your "self?"
For those of you living or have lived with it, please describe your experiences.
It's an experience that takes you very far away from your normal waking consciousness, but it's not something you can really do with. Like visiting a foreign country, in your mind. Middle-class white people who take up pretend Buddhism will claim that backpacking across India that one time "changed" them, but they'll live their life exactly the same afterwards, maybe with some tourist trinkets and stupid new mandala art in their den. Same story when they take psychedelics, but replace the shit with trippy paintings and lava lamps.
>>27412137
if you like to be disappointed when your pleasures fade, after you put much work to get the pleasures beforehand, if you enjoy boredom once you are acclimated to these pleasures and comfort which fades more slowly than most of other pleasures, if you despise pain to the point of being afraid by it, if you fear death, then, sure, continue to be hedonistic.
but if you understand that you bring your own unhappiness, day after, day in searching outside you to fill you and that what you find to fill you is exactly what brings you down, you understand that being stopping envy is the way to go. the good thing is that stopping envy avoids you to identify with the pain (otherwise the pain becomes suffering) and the price to pay is that you do not identify yourself with pleasures too (with the few pleasures that you manage to get).
the good news is that once you stop identifying so much with your sensations, then you reach a higher bliss, that in buddhism is called second jhanas (this is where the Christians go when they pray, and normies picture it as an orgasm like the famous statue of the nun shows).
this is the level of spiritual hedonism, where you experience pleasure of the consciousness.
religious people stop here, because, as buddhists say, they take what they feel as a contact with their deities.
>>27412203
Once yo understand that hedonism is bound to fail, due to the lack of control of events and what you think is your self, disappear the faith in the avidity towards pleasures and the aversion towards pains, the faith in your speculations to get control over what you think is your life.
this state is not reversible and makes you despise hedonism. you have seen the ugliness and the eternal disappointment with hedonism.
There remains to put into practice your new knowledge. you switch back to attempting to establish the equanimity, joy, contentment, benevolence in meditating to be still. Once you eliminate your faith in hedonism, you are happy.
in the dhamma, you even understand that, before nirvana, there is just as much degeneracy and mediocrity in those jhanas, than there is in material hedonism (= of the body, which is the hedonism of most of the humanity), precisely because you still crave the fruits of the jhanas, which are bliss, then tranquility and equanimity.
[in the jhanas, you are disconnected from the 5 senses and from your mind, there remains only what is causally referred to as the consciousness and, when you are not hedonistic, the jhanas are the study of the consciousness by the consciousness itself. since even hedonists manage to get the jahans, those people tend to dwell in them for the pleasures and other curiosities of ''knowing the true reality (of the sensations) and other fantasies.]
Sooner or later, you will understand that your emotions are not meant to be taken seriously (in order to be happy), ditto with your mind[=your imagination, your intellect] and its products [=your ideas, your inferences], ditto with your consciousness, ditto with the objects of your consciousness (the things that people call reality, or even worse, objective reality).
once you understand that even the jhanas are mediocre and you stripe your self of the envy of the jhanas (after you master them), you reach nirvana.
>>27412210
this is the dhamma. the dhamma is a user manual to establish irreversibly [<= this is the key word] equanimity+benevolence+joy towards, in using the vocabulary of ''self'', what you think is casually to your self, what you think is other people (and animals), at any place and at any time.
the sole practice of the dhamma is really this quest for stillness [equanimity+benevolence +joy] towards whatever you feel (inside of you or coming form outside of you]. people tend to split the path into ''formal meditation'' [=the jhanas] and activities called ''informal meditation''[=practice of the morality], but sooner or later, you understand that this dichotomy is a choice and has no substance.
today, people tend to split the formal practice into
-tranquility, samatha, of the consciousness [where you make your mind quiet]
-insights, vipassna, [where you see that it is unbecoming, in order to be happy, to desire to take for personal and permanent what you always took for personal and permanent [typically your mind, your consciousness, your emotions, your sensations]
there are many books, talks and videos on the dhamma, so I cannot list all. I prefer to list only the free materials.
I give a bit of everything, in the school called the theravadan. this school is the most straightforward and does not insist on ''the vacuity (of personality and permanence) '', like the Zen buddhists and the tibetans love to talk on, but it remains the same (the practices preliminary to the jhanas [=the practice of morality in daily life] differ a lot though)
>>27412215
this is the first thing to take: watch videos of these retreats, especially the Q&A. this monk is famous and easy to follow. he is a good introduction, with some hippies flavors (only when he talks to lay people; he is alright when he talks to monks). he is quite rigorous in demanding that the jhanas are states where you no longer feel the 6 senses [people tend to lower the bar of these states, but they still call them jhanas]
watch first videos of talks during a retreat
https://www.youtube.com/user/AjahnBrahmRetreats/videos
especially this one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9wWluu564c
another first thing to watch:
a short video on the jhanas
[YouTube] What is Jhana? By Ven. Henepola Gunaratana Nayaka Maha Thera(Bhante G) (embed)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Lv0PFLZ12o
[YouTube] Bhante Gunaratana (1) What is samatha-vipassana? Part 1: samatha (embed)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaFOjJtEd2g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESQOi9djyaA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41NpmB2le3I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=div3NnAIoYU
and all the others videos from this series
The Jhanas in Theravada Buddhist Meditation by Henepola Gunaratana
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/gunaratana/wheel351.html
Mindfulness in plain English, Bhante Henepola Gunaratana.
http://www.urbandharma.org/pdf2/Mindfulness%20in%20Plain%20English%20Book%20Preview.pdf
http://www.vipassana.com/meditation/mindfulness_in_plain_english.php
Beyond Mindfulness in Plain English: An Introductory Guide to Deeper States of Meditation, Book by Henepola Gunaratana
http://www.wisdompubs.org/sites/default/files/preview/Beyond%20Mindfulness%20Book%20Preview.pdf
>>27412226
>This site is dedicated to the teachings of Venerable Ayya Khema (1923-1997), a Theravada Buddhist nun ordained in Sri Lanka . Her teachings (which were prolific) describe simple and effective meditation methods for development of calm and insight, for expanding feelings of loving-kindness, compassion, joy and equanimity towards others, and for overcoming obstacles to practice. She also gives detailed and lucid instructions for the meditative absorptions (jhanas) which provide access to higher states of consciousness, the way the Buddha himself practiced.
http://ayyakhematalks.org/
>insisting on the setting the samatha first, this book recast the use of the mindfulness through the three angas, [swift introduction to the various sources PLUS good introduction to ''mindfulness'']
A History of Mindfulness Bhikkhu Sujato.pdf
http://santifm.org/santipada/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/A_History_of_Mindfulness_Bhikkhu_Sujato.pdf
>Moment to Moment Mindfulness, A PICTORIAL MANUAL FOR MEDITATORS, Achan Sobin S. Namto
http://vipassanadhura.com/momenttomoment.htm
It gets old. You just feel blank all the time.
who is this buddhist guy in this thread?
can you answer my questions?
it sounds like you're really on to something here. is this something you personally discovered? that you could induce this state through some practice?
what does the state feel like? why are you chasing it? like, what's your motivation? did yo suffer a lot?
is it really possible to not experience your 6 senses? that sounds crazy to me, if that was really the case I'd totally look into this buddhism faaar more.
I guess I just took buddhism to be another religion promising something that wasn't true/real. but if this statte actually does exist, then it would appear the buddha truly was enlightened, and so I would devote my life to it, and waking other people up
depersonalization fucking sucks, the meds I'm on make it feel like I'm watching a movie of my life
>>27412337
Do you just "effortlessly" do things when you will yourself to do them?
>>27412358
no. It is just as hard if not harder to get myself to do things
>>27412358
dude I get that sometimes
it's like there's no distinction between watching the world around me have things happen in it(such as a car driving past) and watching my body do something like walk or talk to people
the distinction literally breaks and the experience of 'willing'/taking action, completely ceases YET THE BODY CONTINUES TO DO THINGS
I have become fairly well convinced that this is because the experience of willing is superflous to the content of my experience
that in reality I have no actual control over anything, I'm just an observer of consciousness, and whatever action I'm taking would still be happening regardless of whether I (felt as if I) was willing it
>>27412235
I appreciate the info dump, got anything else you'd like to share?
I have a feeling this ego death Buddhism stuff is similar to the normie rhetoric we see a lot
>Normie: You're unhappy? No friends? Just bee urself :) Have some fun xD
>Buddhist: You're unhappy? No friends? Just stop wanting stuff :) Reach enlightenment xD
>>27412434
Are you implying that you're strictly an observer watching your body going through its habits or are you just observing yourself making all these choices?
I'm not too great expressing myself so I hope you get what I mean.
I do everyday meditation for a month. I use techniques from Culadasa "The Mind Illuminated" book. In terms of a progress I'm a complete novice. But my strange experience I had once is not relaited to my meditation sessions. It was 6 years ago. If I have it now I would definitely believe that it is due to my meditation and it is some kind of insight or awakening or something other. But when I had it 6 years ago I was not into meditation at all. That's why it is so strange. Here it is.
I was in charge of a huge project at work. It was very responsible and stressful work. I remember how I was walking down the aisle in a hurry. My head was full of thought about how much of things I had to complete. And then, out of nowhere everything around me has changed. Everything became much clearer and brighter. I suddenly felt like the whole my previous life I lived was in kind of a space suite and watched kind of blured reality. But after that small wake up I felt so much energy and motivation to complite all my tasks. And all my emotions went away and I was able to do my work in "beast" mode. This "mode" of my existance had lasted for two month and the it had faded away. I have done so much things for my work, for my personal live, for my home. I was able to keep doing tasks for hours without break.
The experience that I had was a huge surprise for me. And it was so perfect! Each day when I laid down to sleep at night I was affraid that next day I would wake up it would disapear. Eventually, it has. No matter what I tried after it had faded out it all havent' worked out. I was kind of unhappy with it. First I decided that I have some form of ADHD because after that bright and clear experiance now I see how little will and motivation I had before and after that experience. Then I decided that I have bi-polar disorder and that experience was hypomaniac phase of my bi-polarity.
>>27412203
>>27412210
>>27412215
>>27412226
If it's this wordy, it's just some fancy psychological idea. Especially the idea of killing the ego - that's just another war to fight under a new name of "ohmm so holy".
>>27412471
It's the same logic in terms of "Life sucks now but will be better when I get........". It's why nobody in that garbage achieves anything, yet still goes around proclaiming they've found "it" - "it" being a bunch of false hope they've gotten from books.
>>27412504
>ng that you're strictly an observer watching your body going through its habits
this I think, if I understand you
what I mean is that metaphysically what I exist as is just an observer - something along for the ride. I have no control over my experience I am not controlling the body that I appear to 'be', rather what I exist as is just the same of everything that is being aware of
control/willing/being a body is an illusion, because I've 100% felt and experienced life in the absence of ANY sense of willing (eg, makiing steps, being in some srot of guiding control of my bodies actions), and my body continued doing this regardless
I remember vividly watching myself, with no will of my own, I wasn't willing or making myself do any of this, it was just happening out of my control, I was driving, I pulled over, I walked down the street into a cornerstore, I payed for a drink using eftpos, and talked to the guy, hen I walked back to my car and drove off.
all of that happened in the COMPLETE absense of any willing on my behalf. I wasn't in an control or causing ANY of it. I just wacthed the whole thing unfold like I was watching a movie. my existence was just lke staring at a movie screen watching(and not causing) any of it.
so that's why I'm convinced (it's happened plenty other times as well that's just the most vivid one, because it shocked me so bad), that the control I feel right now typing this sentence is actually an illusion, and what is consists of is the vision of my fingers, nd the the experience of what I interpret as 'willing' or 'causing'. and what I mean is that these two things are just incidental to eachother, one doesn't cause or influence the other. it's just that when combined in an individual experience they lead to the (illusion) experience of being in control/being/doing the actions of this human I interpret as being
>>27413151
like really we just have a visual field, but we interpret it as seeing out the eyes of a human being into a public world
when really, all of that is just an interpretation and not relatity, that's just a articular way I interpret what I actually exist as - and that's just a stream of disembodied experience - I exist AS 'what-is-currently-experienced/felt/sensed' (not a human body in a world)
we interpret our experiences as being senses, into an external world, that a body as a biological deterctor 'does'. but that's nothing more than an interpretation done by me, it's not reality. realtiy isn't really like that and it's a mistake to think that interpretation is actually how the world is and not just an interpretatin that is being done
>>27412471
Buddhism's fairly logical though.
>desiring things you don't have is the root of misery
>overcome and move past your desires and you'll be freed from misery
Not even a Buddhist, but it's pretty simple desu, it applies to normalfags too. It's not like they're truly happy with all the mindless shit they do, it's all just desperately trying filling a void, and it never works.
>>27413182
Desirelessness isn't a reality, though. If you had no desires, you wouldn't exist. I've never encountered a single buddhist who ever transcended anything and wasn't just reciting others' quotes and being an escapist.
>>27413229
>>Desirelessness isn't a reality, though. If you had no desires, you wouldn't exist.
this. hedonists think that no desire = death
emotions matter to hedonist who think hedonism is a good life style.
But of course, most people love hedonism far too much to stop being scared of leaving hedonism. Most people are not meant to be something else than hedonist. In fact, the whole humanity is here because people love to cling to what they feel and think and refuse to do something else with their life.
for people saying that hedonism is relevant,
>life=what you feel+what you think+what you expect from your desires from what you feel and think
therefore,
>grade your desires
and
>non acting on your favorite desires = non life = death
hedonism is not an effective doctrine to be happy. Hedonists believe that you literally die if you ''do not think nor do feel''. They have faith that 'no moving' is death.
of course, doing the opposite brings you a better life:
>perpetual evanescence and lack of control of what you think and feel, therefore cannot be taken seriously (to be happy) => stay still towards what you think and feel.
Once you try to reach stillness, you are more equanimous and benevolent.
>>27413229
Those are the laymen though, no one expects them to achieve that state. It's the monks who devote their life to Buddhism that have a realistic chance of freeing themselves of desire. The best the laymen can hope for is to be reborn with the chance to become a monk and achieve nirvana.
>>27413305
>"Try to reach stillness"
Good luck with efforting yourself into relaxation. The issue with all of these agendas is you're trying to reach some goal or some destination. Life is always now, so you're never going to arrive. If you imagine you have to change your beliefs or silence your mind forcefully, then how is the fight ever going to create peace; it's not. Being open to everything is the only thing you need to "do" because you are receptive to life and not running around in a circle trying to find something.
I'm not talking about hedonism, I'm talking about the obviousness that you exist for a reason - to experience. To think temporary highs from achievements can permanently fill you up might be what a hedonist thinks, though not in those terms because they're probably not aware.
>>27413306
You already have desire naturally - so why does anybody think that suppression is going to lead to something positive? Life is already natural yet everybody is caught in trying to change everything (and doesn't find anything either). Buddha only "achieved" when he stopped fighting. This whole schtick of needing to meditate everyday and do this and that is utter foolishness, especially when these people have no idea it is what they're seeking.
"Regular" people are trying to escape from themselves with status, achievement, therapy, drugs, etc. and "spiritual" people are doing the same thing but with meditating, chanting, practices, renunciation, etc. and think that they're somehow better off. It's complete nonsense.
There is no such thing as ego death, I hate to break it to you.
All you can really do is be aware of it, and suppress it and this is probably the last place to talk about religion anyways.
Just be nice to people and not be so self-centered anons, that's the core of all religions really.
>>27413672
/r9k/ talks about nothing but suppression in one way or the other.
meditate and ypu can find it maybe
>>27413700
Maybe when I'm 100 I'll get it
>>27413719
>>Maybe when I'm 100 I'll get it
this
people who love their material pleasures will do anything to cling to them which delays their mastery of the jhanas. And then, they cling to their jhanas.
quite a stupid attitude, but people cannot be help.
>>27413861
It took me 3 or so years to stop trying to get somewhere. To stop all the nonsense is to see things as they really are and then you lighten up. Anything that takes you outward or a path/method is just going to lead you nowhere because it's backwards with reality.
Sure is Taoism in here.
>>27413917
>To stop all the nonsense
this is called meditating
bumperoioo
>meditation must work, seeing as everyone who does it won't stop talking about how beneficial it is
>I see no tangible benefits in their meditating or my own aside from the increased desire to say platitudes about mindfulness
>in dissolving my ego through meditation, my head swells with superiority when somebody points out my rituals
>see those monks who have created an entire identity out of their seeking? that'll be me one day
>MUST....STOP....MY....DESIRE....shit, I almost had it.
Good luck with that, I guess. Let us know how it goes.
>>27415923
one/10
bumpqiwe
