Is there any valid argument against suicide?
Why do people try to stop others from killing themelves? It's pretty much the most selfish thing you can do.
because if suicide was socially accepted, people would begin to realize how pointless it all is
committing suicide is a declaration that you have failed as a human being
>>27402371
Oh sure it's better living 20 more years in absolute depression in misery than just end it.
>>27402371
So what?
You'll be dead. Pride is for the living.
People don't want to accept that they might have played a part in making someone's life so terrible that they want to end it.
>>27402426
>>27402437
life can be a net positive or a net negative, if you commit suicide you assert that you have failed and will always fail to make your life a net positive, worth living. If you are any good as a human being you will be able to make your life a net positive. When you commit suicide you say that you can't do that and concede failure. Unless you don't believe in free will?
>>27402764
>you assert that you have failed and will always fail to make your life a net positive
Again I pose: who cares?
I'll be dead.
I can't speak for suicidal people, but I'm guessing for that many of them, suicide isn't really their ideal preferred solution to their problems, it's just the least bad in a list of bad options.
If they could solve their problems whilst continuing to live, they would. They'd prefer a good life, but they don't think they can acquire one, and they figure no life is better than a life of suffering.
So if people around them still have hope in a better solution, of course they'd try to discourage them from killing themselves. Suicide is just what you do when you've got no other options left, it's not something you really want to do if you can help it.
Of course, some people probably do legitimately want to kill themselves.
There's a difference between somebody who kills themselves because they're paralysed from the neck down and can't pursue their passions, and somebody who's just tired of life.
>related?
[1/2]
"When you have assumed these names, good, modest, true, rational, a person of equanimity, and magnanimous, take care that you do not change these names; and if you should lose them, quickly return to them. And remember that the term Rational was intended to signify a discriminating attention to every single detail and to do so with due diligence; and that Equanimity is the voluntary acceptance of the things which are assigned to you by the common nature; and that Magnanimity is the elevation of the intelligent part above the pleasurable or painful sensations of the flesh, and above that poor thing called fame, and death, and all such things. If, then, you maintain yourself in the possession of these names, without desiring to be called by these names by others, you will be another person and will enter on another life. For to continue to be such as you have hitherto been, and to be torn in pieces and defiled in such a life, is the character of a very stupid person and one overfond of life, and like those half-devoured fighters with wild beasts, who though covered with wounds and gore, still plead to be kept to the following day, though they will be exposed in the same state to the same claws and bites."
>>27403054
"Therefore fix yourself in the possession of these few names: and if you are able to abide in them, abide as if you were removed to certain islands of the Happy. But if you shall perceive that you fall out of them and do not maintain your hold, go courageously into some nook where you shall maintain them, or even depart at once from life, not in passion, but with simplicity and freedom and modesty, after doing this one laudable thing at least in your life, to have gone out of it thus. In order, however, to the remembrance of these names, it will greatly help you, if you remember the gods, and that they wish not to be flattered, but wish all reasonable beings to be made like themselves; and if you remember that what does the work of a fig-tree is a fig-tree, and that what does the work of a dog is a dog, and that what does the work of a bee is a bee, and that what does the work of a human being is a human being."
I think most people who recommend against suicide aren't doing it for selfish reasons. Humans, among other animals, are more likely to survive if they cooperate with their family and tribe. This is built into the core of our psychology in the same way we feel pain and pleasure are. If you're a smart person then you realise that we're all pretty much the same deep down inside, and so it's quite natural to extend their tribal loyalty to everyone they can.
Life is a game and like all games, they can be fun. Sometimes having fun is just a matter of changing your outlook, and it's quite hard to convince someone to do that.
>>27402929
>of course they'd try to discourage them from killing themselves
But not offer any valid suggestions to improve their life.
>>27402803
you do. It would be like walking all day and coming home to a great feast, good wine and good company, and instead of enjoying it, going back outside with your ears plugged and eyes shut pretending that it didn't exist.
>>27403429
What the fuck are you actually talking about
Do you understand what "I'll be dead" means
normies care so much about pretending to be happy that they actually get physically mad when someone fails to do it so hard that they kill themselves
>>27403456
it means you pass away from this life. you don't know what will happen after death
you may have noticed that whenever someone dies on normbook, all the normies rush to write huge essays in broken english about how much they loved the dead person and how much they'll miss them (even if they only ever spoke with them once or twice)
they do that for appearances. but they would prefer to do it only when necessary. they get seriously mad if someone makes them do that on purpose.
>>27402316
The common retort is that suicide is impulsive and a lot of people regret it.
My retort is that I have the freedom to make impulsive decisions and speaking as someone who has attempted twice (and didn't regret it), even if I did I have the freedom to make the wrong decision. I have made many decisions in my life that I regretted, but never have I regretted having the freedom to make those decisions. By that logic we ought to ban smoking since pretty much every smoker on their death bed dying from lung cancer regretted the moment they began lighting up.
>>27403507
you do unless you're religion normie
>>27402764
it's not about free will, its about life circumstances
i was dealt an extremely bad hand in life
realistically ill never be happy no matter how much effort i put in
making my life a net positive is impossible because of what i started out with. its about as impossible as flying (without a plane or anything like that)
imagine if i said, "you can fly or you cant. if you commit suicide you assert that you have failed and will always fail to fly. if you are any good as human being you will be able to fly. When you commit suicide you say that you can't do that and concede failure. Unless you don't believe in free will?"
it isnt a free will issue, its an issue of, "is this even possible?"
>>27403507
What happens beyond this life does not concern me. I'll get whatever I deserve, be it eternal damnation or eternal unconscious nothingness. What concerns me is exiting this shit life.
I'm starting to realise it myself recently. The only reason we find suicide bad is because it goes against human instinct. We've evolved to survive, we always have since the start. Then when someone wants to suicide it's seen as chaotic and odd.
I even thought that suicide was a terrible thing, but lately I don't seem to care. The only reason you want to live is because humans have evolved to survive, that's all, your brain is wired to not want to die, but there's literally no real reason to survive. You'll just live a few more years and die eventually. So what's the point? There is none. But we want to survive anyway even when there isn't a point, just because we think we should.
>>27403429
you are like a 5 year old who doesnt understand what death is
>>27402566
This
Everybody thinks they're the good guy.
>>27402316
There's none. People here wouldnt care if i'd kill myself. Even if you'd be standing on the bridge with absolute sadness and contempt to end it, no passing people would even stop or let alone look at you.
>>27403721
That's not true. When you're on the bridge, they'll help you.
Then once you're safe and sound, they'll abandon you again.
>>27403721
Oh yeah, I saw a video on this.
This boy literally stood on a bridge for 2 hours crying before he jumped. The only thing anybody said was "can you take a picture of me and my husband".
Luckily he broke the fall with his legs and is living a happier life now. He's also a thiest too. I guess you can't be both happy and redpilled.
>>27403760
>That's not true. When you're on the bridge, they'll help you
They won't help you unless you are the center of attention
>>27402316
Because you lose another tax payer. People exist solely to make money, pay taxes and reproduce so the cycle continues all over again.
Same reason why there's so many taxes on cigarettes. Dead people cannot pay taxes.
>>27403834
This place is so fucked up.
>>27403632
>>27403544
>>27403537
only dumbfucks don't believe in Jesus
>>27403894
What do you have to say about this
https://www.reddit.com/r/SanctionedSuicide/comments/29tjph/what_if_death_is_better_than_living_a_life_filled/
>>27403887
It's the truth fampai.
>>27403923
Of course suicide should be ok in extreme cases. However most people that are suicidal, if they were more open minded, could figure out a way to make life worthwhile. For example, even a homeless person could spend their time drinking, a pleasurable way to live. Or they could run all day like ancient Native Americans. Or they could cultivate good relationships with other homeless and enjoy deep meaningful friendships that many go without.
>>27404293
>could spend their time drinking, a pleasurable way to live
>they could cultivate good relationships with other homeless and enjoy deep meaningful friendships
>>27404293
i cant tell if this is serious or not
you should try living the rewarding homeless life if you think its so nice
>>27404347
I have, it was nice. I spent all day lying in the sun in a park.
There isn't any. All the "b..b.b.b.b.b.b.b.b.b.bbbbbut the people you leave behind! You're selfish for hurting them!" argument is absolute selfishness.
>>27402316
Normies will be forced to fake feelings for you
>>27404597
It's a valid argument though, you're possibly traumatizing any family members that you leave behind. Not as valid anymore if no one gives a fuck about you though.
>>27404695
No, it's a faulty argument. It's faulty since it subjects the person to pain just so the rest do not have to. That is selfish in itself. Yet, they call the person who is suicidal selfish. That's very hypocritical and a major of case of wanting your cake and eat it too without considering the suicidal person.
>>27404695
theyre asking me to suffer a lot so that they dont have to suffer
its selfish of them
>>27404695
I wouldn't want to die if I had family members that loved me and helped me.
>>27404450
a homeless person doesn't have to worry about what people think about him, and has no obligations at all. there's even soup kitchens in the city that give free meals every day
