Just curious who is on this board. Feel free to discuss antinatalism and why it is the objectively most sensible ethical system given our current understanding of the human condition.
http://strawpoll.me/7118714
Antinatalism is a pseudo-philosophy for depressed people. Absolutely trash tier.
Real depressed people should embrace white nationalism/fascism. It's empowering and its our only chance to dig out of this grave.
>>27247404
It has the potential to be negative all based on your choices so I can't say I agree or disagree
>>27247442
I don't understand. Either you agree or you don't. No weasel words here.
If the world's top Jews got together in a room and said, What is the most backwards, wrongest philosophy we can cook up for people to believe in? Something that goes against every natural and fulfilling instinct man has. Something that goes against God and family and nations. Something that ignores facts and common sense. Something grossly immoral. They'd come up with "anti-natalism."
>>27247404
Honestly I just want to see fertility treatments disappear, and some kind of voluntary, opt-in eugenism incentives, and systematic genetic screening. To prevent abominations like me from being born.
Just because my life sucks, doesn't mean people shouldn't breed, but I wish they would breed carefully and wisely, not in a completely careless and consumerist fashion like they're doing now, because I feel for people who were born into a life that all things considered is not worth living and an embarrassment for all parties involved.
>>27247474
It does go against instinct I'll give you that. But god? Pfffftt. Any amount of suffering is worse that none, and cannot be outweighed by joy, and therefore it is wrong to bring a life into existence. Name a reason why children should be had.
>>27247536
>cannot be outweighed by joy
It can be though.
>Name a reason why children should be had.
This is so weird and upside down. It's like demanding that I prove why we should drink water or sleep. Also telling that you "pfffft" when I mentioned God, another natural aspect of the human experience you seem unable to comprehend.
I don't really care what other people do, but I refuse to bring a child into this world. I'm not rich, I'm not really attractive, and I'm not that intelligent. basically I have mediocre shit genes and I'm not forcing them onto someone who wouldn't exist otherwise. not worth it.
believe me, I'm doing the world a favor.
>>27247573
No, joy is just an arbitrary cut off where your mind gets to delude itself it is in an equitable position but this is never the case because life consists of needs and the fulfillment of those needs and the amelioration of discomfort. But there is another word for those needs, debt. There is nothing beyond ameliorating the debt and the only way it can be fully ameliorated is through dying.
>>27247573
Even if god existed the goal would either be to get into his heaven or become like him. Creating children would be wrong cause you could detine them to hell. I'm a fucking atheist I'm destined for hell according to you.
I don't believe children should be had just like I don't believe in god. Burden of proof. However I believe children should not be had based on the chance that they might regret being had. I especially reject having children is moral while humanity is mortal. And if we become immortal I'd reject it on population reasons.
The only reason people have kids is to satisfy themselves. Kids are brought into existence against their will and subjected to everything they never asked for.
I don't express these views in public because people don't care, but I do believe them.
Girls that masturbate then to masturbate more than guys.
The only thing holding off a guy from masturbating more than 3 times a day is that he needs days to recover for his orgasms to start feeling good again. Girl's just need to eat, drink, and a good night's rest before being able to masturbate 5 times again.
>>27247404
I kinda support it for people who can't raise children, either because they're too poor or because they're fucked in the head/not competent enough to raise kids. Like, if I suddenly became president, I wouldn't ban it, cuz freedumbs and shit, but I'd certainly frown uppon it.
>Hurr durr, I'm too poor to even get a proper roof over my head yet I bred 50 boons out my legs, gib me free monies plox u rayyciss
>Hurr durr, I haven't even completed High School and fucked 50 Chads, now I'm pregnant and you have to accept MUH BODY MUH ROELZ
If everyone thought like this, populations would be 50X smaller, yet 10X smarter and God knows how many times richer.
>>27247734
What if god wanted us to transcend the ego and voluntarily extinguish ourselves after realizing how incredibly lame and impotent we are?
>>27247772
>he needs days to recover for his orgasms to start feeling good again
you have a medical condition dude
>>27247692
>No, joy is just an arbitrary cut off where your mind gets to delude itself it is in an equitable position but this is never the case because life consists of needs and the fulfillment of those needs and the amelioration of discomfort.
Life's base state is contentment, and suffering is against the status quo.
>>27247793
If god wanted us to commit suicide we still wouldn't need to have children. Also fuck him.
>>27247734
Life for religious people isn't about passing a quiz at the end of life and getting into Heaven or Hell. Talk to traditional Christians and they won't even use terminology like "going to heaven." It's about taking joy in what God has given them in this life, and giving Him thanks and glory. Children are part of that.
I think that when you present something wildly against the natural instincts of mankind (not having children, disbelief in God) then the burden of proof should be on you.
>>27247798
>life's base state is contentment
Tell that to someone who is starving to death. The default state is hungry, thirsty, tired, bored, unfulfilled. Humans do things every day to ameliorate these default states of discomfort and outside of your little first-world bubble that is not so easy.
>>27247472
Suck me psuedointellectual cuckboy
Nah but people really need to stop having kids they can't afford, specially in third world countries. Literally all of our civilization's problems stem from unregulated growth, we have way too many fucking people. /pol/, if you even dare to whisper your bullshit I'm going to rape you with an iron rod.
>>27247967
Methinks the lady doth protest too much.
>>27247888
OP here. I believe in god and I believe there is a reason why abstinence and celibacy are seen as hallmarks of the devout in most religious systems.
>>27247917
Funny how you appeal to muh third world starving people when third world people see enough fulfillment in the world for it to be worth it to bring children into it.
I haven't done enough thorough research and speculation on this philosophy to have a solid opinion, but my take on it mostly sides with it. Though, my opinion of it is shaky. These anons get it >>27247504 >>27247659
>>27247888
Instincts prove nothing. They are barely evidence for anything.
Yes christians want a relationship with god, but there is a punishment/reward factor. If we are looking at the endgame, you get into heaven to keep that relationship. But I don't respect my parents solely for having me. And I definitely don't respect the christian god for his creation. Life sucks. Sure I appreciate the beauty in the universe. But I still think it would be better if I have never been born since I'm going to die some day. Especially with the hardships of staying alive, and what would be considered the temptations of sin that I couldn't care less about since I choose to live as a hedonist to minimize my suffering and maximize my pleasure while I'm in this shittiness that is life. Even in your example children are not required. And as I said they could end up hellbound. Eternally in a state of torment. I just believe we die and are gone and have to live with that knowledge.
>>27247404
Already have one child, hopefully will have a few more in the future
>>27248013
Yes, as I have established there are a lot of stupid people in the world that are able to arbitrarily delude themselves that living is somehow equitable because their brains produce an addictive compound called dopamine. Lifecucks make me laugh.
>>27248130
I hope you die before that happens to be honest not-my-family
>>27248150
Why is that?
origibloxx
>>27248173
Probably cause hes an anti-natalist like myself. I don't wish for the death of the living like him, but I especially don't wish for the birth of the unborn.
>>27248130
I hope you have a secure foundation, anon. If you're just shitting out babies because "lol its natural" then fuck you.
>>27248266
I do indeed have a stable gf and house
>>27247404
Yes, it's a moral crime to create another conscious being and perpetuate all the suffering that inevitably comes with it for your own selfish satisfaction. Maybe in a future world where you're born in to some sort of matrix where there's a 100% guarantee of constant happiness and no concept of suffering. But even that's as pointless as the junkie's next hit. It's better to not have the need in the first place.
>>27248295
>stable gf
Good idea, keeping her in a barn to prevent her wiles from getting out of hand
>>27248317
How is it selfish to give someone the gift of life? Look outside! This is an amazing world. If anything more people need to experience this!
>>27248558
Because there are plenty of people who say "I wish I had never been born." Still others who commit suicide. The world may be slightly interesting and pleasing, but any suffering is too much. Guess what you have to do to stay alive. Suffer at a job.
>>27248558
I know you posted this as mockery, but why would anyone ever consider life a gift? Is being thrown on a treadmill which you have to keep running on out of fear ever a gift? Does anyone pity rocks for giving literally zero fucks if they fall off and crack in two or not?
>>27248558
>being born into a world with genes that prevent you from enjoying the world to it's fullest
>cross-cultural attitudes shun the weak
>"amazing world!"
>"more people need to experience this!"
It's amazing for Chad and Stacey, but for everyone else it sucks donkey dick. Having kids just because is incredibly selfish.
I've once heard the counterargument that by having kids, you have the potential to bring the next great genius into the world, and through anti-natalism, you eliminate that possibility.
I said that we wouldn't need geniuses if nobody reproduced, but I'm sure there's a better response.
How would you guys respond to this?
>>27248558
>amazing world
The world is shit, filled with pain and disappointment. I have never seen
this amazing world you speak of in my 26 years in this hellish nightmare.
By the same logic they have the potential to give birth to the next
totalitarian dictator,a bumbling idiot or mass murderer. It is a supreme
act of narcissism to think that their child will be special statistically
the child would be average, just like the rest of humanity.
>>27248085
>>27248131
Dude come on, I don't have a gf either but aren't you taking it a bit far?
>>27249215
No, I am not taking it far enough
>>27248939
>LOOK AT MY FUCKING GENES
and then laugh my ass off
>>27247404
Is that pic from Brazil?
Top-notch movie
>>27249215
Two different people. And do you think I care about being called a fedora tipping neckbeard? I don't believe in God but I try not to push that on other people. It just couldn't be used as an argument against me in this thread. My lack of a sex life has nothing to do with anything, I just believe it is immoral to have children. I believe that for entirely justifiable reasons though I respect that other people disagree about some of my opinions and arguments.
>>27249375
Yes. I attach it to a lot of these ideas because normies think this ending is bleak and depressing when in fact it is a decisive victory for the protagonist who gets to live in an idealistic fantasy headspace. When normies react negatively to the insanity of Sam Lowry, they are saying that they want an authentic life but not TOO authentic.
>>27249385
God loves you anon. Be happy.
>>27249547
Awww I love you too Ishtar.
>>27249215
It really comes down to whatever is the more essential value. A universal constant of entropy or the arbitrary circumstances that make a human life worth living? Entropy wins in my book.
GLOBAL STERILIZATION WHEN
>>27247404
>Not having as many white children as possible so you can help spread the Aryan race to the stars and beyond
Cucks. All of you.
>>27250950
>being racist
>in 2016
Kek
>>27247404
>antinatalism
Nah bro, fascism is the way to go.
Can't conquer the Universe without wagecucks, and wagecucks need religion like a butthole needs lube.
Pic related.
Agree with Antinatalism 100%. I'm not going to force my beliefs on anyone, but I sure as fuck am not ever bringing new life into this shitty universe. I totally agree that life is 75% negative and 25% positive, and we only continue to live despite the overwhelming negativity because our instincts tell us to.
>>27251013
Fun fact:Everyone outside the America,Canada, and Europe are racist.
>>27251238
Thats not a fun fact.
>>27248558
Looked outside and saw a homeless man taking a shit on my front yard.
Life is less than beautiful
>have a son
>grows up brainwashed by the liberal media, academia, and society in general to be a self-hating nu-male white guilt beta cuckold, or, alternately, a douchebag bully Chad who'd terrorize people like me when I was in school
>have a daughter
>grows up to be a "sex-positive" feminist whore who fucks forty men before the age of nineteen because "Dad like omg it's just sex stop being such a prude, it's 2040 not 1940 like can you not?"
You can raise your kids well. You can instill good values in them. But you will not be able to insulate them from the corruptive degenerate influences of television, the internet, school (literally as early as elementary school), and the outside world in general. You could be "that dad" who bans TV, the internet, and everything fun in the house, but your kids will just rebel further to spite you and become even bigger degenerates. Our society is only getting more and more degenerate, and it's becoming practically impossible to shield your children from it.
Also, raising good kids requires a happy, healthy, equal relationship between a man and a woman. Given the increasing gynocentrism of our society, the rampant rise of casual sex, and the abolishment of wholesome family values, it's unlikely that I'll be able to find a good, virtuous woman to be my partner in life and have children with.
Antinatalism is, regretfully, the only stance to take. I would love to have children, but I could not bear the pain of watching them become typical mean normies, nor would I want them to be good but miserable robots. The best option is to just not have kids at all.
>>27251833
/pol/ has gotten to you.
I'm also an antinatalist, but you're just a delusional meme loving faggot.
If you commit the crime of giving birth, you can still raise successful and moral children.
Use the belt, force them to read, limit TV access, talk to them about stuff they hear at school, etc.
If you let the computer and TV raise your kid, then yeah, what you said will happen.
My parents only took me to the library, piano lessons, and sports practice.
Read over 100 books a year, and didn't find 4chan/tumblr/etc until I was 16.
>>27249853
They're already working on it.
