Thread created to stem digression from another thread.
This should be a good one I can't wait.
>>27184401
I suppose we'll see.
>>27184375
since i don't live in the us i can't fathom why someone would do something like this to their child
does anyone else hate how annoying uncutfags are?
i'm uncut myself, but i'll be damned if i'm gonna rub it in the faces of cut people.
you don't go up to a kid in a wheelchair and then brag to them about how good you are at walking up stairs.
that's all these threads seem to end up being, someone trying desperately to be better than someone else.
it's just not cricket
>>27184456
subtle/11
>>27184375
i want that hoodie i wanna wear it in public
genital autonomy is a right, people need to know
>>27184530
It will just weird people out. That's the problem with Americans, they are more concerned with being comfortable than having basic morality.
>>27184375
do you think she likes big uncut cocks and smelling there fragrant cock heads?
>>27184530
http://madebymomma.spreadshirt.com/genital-autonomy-is-a-human-right-2-sides-text-change-available-A12208209/customize/color/4
Look, here's the deal with circumcision. Yeah, cutting off part of a baby's penis when he's too young to remember the pain is kind of fucked up. But it's a social requirement of the society that we live in now. It's one of the things that we do.
Does it make sense for men to rub a sharp piece of metal across their face every morning so that they can be clean shaven? Not really. Objectively, it makes no sense. Naturalistically, it makes more sense to let a beard happen.
Similarly, women are required to shave their legs and armpits in Western culture. This is also time consuming and uncomfortable-- sometimes even painful!
If we totaled up the total time lost and pain/discomfort gained of shaving in a lifetime and compared it to the 2 seconds of pain it takes to circumcise an infant, shaving would be far more negative utility in the long run.
Yet nobody complains about shaving. Interesting how that works.
>>27184717
>But it's a social requirement of the society that we live in now.
What society is that? America?
It's not a social requirement here. It's a common custom but it's far from universal and 99% of people you meet will never even see your dick.
Maybe it's a "social requirement" in Iran or other theocracies based on circumcising religions, where the government gets into your business if you're not following the religion correctly.
Not in the US.
>>27184895
I like how you object to the social requirement argument and then try to strawman it... by... bringing up Iran? Fucking LOL.
It's pretty obvious you don't know what you're talking about or even how to argue. Go back to /r/MensRights and join the intellectually-dishonest circlejerk there. We have a higher standard here.
Bye.
>>27184717
one thing is to cut hair, another thing is to cut flesh. at least you can grow more hair if you feel like it
>>27184920
>I like how you object to the social requirement argument and then try to strawman it... by... bringing up Iran? Fucking LOL.
You have no clue what a strawman is.
That poster didn't specify what society he was talking about. I assumed the US.
If that's the case, he's wrong to call it a "requirement" here. It's not. An example of a society where it could be considered "required" might possibly be Iran. I was giving an example. That's not a strawman. Quit using words of which you don't know the meanings.
>Go back to [reddit]
Real original insult, you thought it up all by yourself huh
>>27184980
>Awkwardly rephrasing a natural-sounding sentence that ends with a preposition to fit grammatical rules
>Thinking this will make his argument sound smarter and better thought-out
>Autism... autism everywhere
>>27184589
STOP IT REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>27185038
>When you have no argument, criticize where your opponent put a preposition. That'll show him!
0/10 try harder.
>>27184949
But you can't "grow back" the time you sacrificed to shave in the first place, can you?
Assume that the average male spends five minutes every-other-day shaving. This accounts for 15.21 hours a year of shaving. If a man begins regularly shaving at 22 years old, and lives to 77.8 years, he will have spend a total of 35.93 DAYS shaving. That is 1/10th of a year.
1/10th of a year. Spent shaving. This is a ridiculous sacrifice to be making. Yet our culture doesn't even blink an eye at it.
You complain about a lost bit of skin. This is time wasted for arbitrary reasons. Time he could spend learning how to play the lute or reading classic literature.
>>27185114
Fine. Fine. You caught me.
Here's the problem with you latching onto the "cultural requirement" argument. You take issue with the fact that I say it's a cultural requirement. That's fine.
Unfortunately, when that's your main critique of the argument, you are
>implying that circumcision would be acceptable in a culture that requires it
I do not believe that you believe this to be the case. This is why you are a fucking idiot.
>>27185126
people waste most of their time anyway. and it's a choice people make. you can choose to stop shaving if you want. causing someone a potentially traumatic level of pain as an infant isn't comparable on almost any level.
>>27185126
It's not just a bit of skin. The prepuce includes the ridged band and frenular delta which are pretty much the main pleasure zones of the penis.
A lot of the feeling in sex and masturbation comes from the foreskin itself. You might be operating on the mistaken notion that the glans is the main pleasure hub of the penis. There's no evidence for this idea. The glans is largely protopathic and primarily innervated with pain sensors.
>>27185169
>implying that circumcision would be acceptable in a culture that requires it
I implied no such thing. It would still be abhorrent, even if it were a "cultural requirement".
>>27185258
Yet you did not have the courage to state your maxim from the beginning.
You could have easily said something like:
>I believe that it is abhorrent to mutilate another person's body without their informed consent
And that would have been totally groovy. Instead, you simper in with some bullshit argument over something that can be effectively reduced down to semantics.
You tried to look smarter than you are and you failed. You lack balls.
Maybe they removed a little bit more than your foreskin when you were circumcised, eh? Heh heh heh.
>>27185126
i think u are stretching things a bit too far, imo. u could say the same for clothing and stuff. if this kind of mutilation is a religious ritual i can understand it being a social requirement for your country. still sucks though, i just like the idea of freedom of choice
This is how I feel.... I am considering suicide
>>27185207
>people waste most of their time anyway. and it's a choice people make. you can choose to stop shaving if you want. causing someone a potentially traumatic level of pain as an infant isn't comparable on almost any level.
I was circumcised. I do not remember any pain or trauma. I do not have any psychopathology associated with early childhood trauma. In fact, I am proud of the way my penis looks, feels and operates. It is nice to be able to be normal in the locker room. It is nice to not have girls scream and compare me to an anteater. It is nice to be able to wear natural fabric underwear without having to worry about my oversensitive cockhead poking out and scraping itself.
Think of it this way. Putting on pants is something that I ostensibly consent to doing. However, I do not really consent to doing it. If I were to walk around outside letting my glorious cut cock flap in the wind, I would ostracized and arrested.
Social coercion negates any true understanding of consent.
>>27185320
Discuss the issue at hand (circumcision) or don't. I'm not entertaining personal attacks.
Ok look, we need to end this cut vs uncut shit ok? We accomplish nothing just going back and forth. We are literally arguing over something none of us even had a say in. Just like genetics
>>27185394
Okay. I am going to summarize your argument as best as I can.
>Circumcision is wrong because we do not live in a culture that requires that it be done. Even if we lived in a culture that required it be done, I still think that it's wrong.
Is that about right, bucko?
>>27185389
>I was circumcised. I do not remember any pain or trauma.
look up attachment styles. just because you don't remember your experiences as an infant doesn't mean they haven't shaped your life in very significant ways
>>27185372
Show more of the conversation from 12/19/2015 please. I am interested if your self-victimizing pity party got Val to agree to fuck you.
>>27185389
Look at this post mes amies. This is why you were circumcised. Because of idiots who rationalize a barbaric ritual because it is a common tradition and for absolutely no other real reason.
If you were to take a second to think about it a priori you would realize how absolutely fucked up it is.
>>27185372
You texted a woman complaining about how you're circumcised? I do not understand
>>27185449
She's my girlfriend, so it wasn't much of a challenge.
>>27184895
>99% of people you meet will never even see your dick
more like 100% :(
>>27184375
I am glad I am circumcised. I can't imagine the embarrassment of not being cut
>>27185440
>Attachment styles
Pretty sure that when I said "no psychopathology," that included attachment disorders.
>>27185418
>Is that about right, bucko?
No.
Why do robots think they know more about what's good for you than American doctors? Why does the opinion of a bunch of NEETs matter?
>>27185450
>
If you were to take a second to think about it a priori you would realize how absolutely fucked up it is.
this. if u were living in a shit hole backwards country i could understand, but wtf
>>27185416
I don't want people to be involuntarily subjected to the mutilation I was.
That's why I discuss the issue.
>>27185450
>a priori knowledge
Pretty sure the context of circumcision is VERY important in understanding it. But if you want to make an argument that circumcision is tautologically wrong independent of any context, then I don't really think I can argue with you?
The framework doesn't allow it.
Great job killing the discussion.
>>27185126
What a stupid fucking comparison.
Anyways, I'd be the one shaving my face because my parents aren't doing it when I'm 20 years old. That's the difference, I'm making the choice.
>>27185496
www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.com
You're welcome.
>>27185493
Then clarify, please.
>>27185555
>www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.com
Fucked that one up. It's .org
>>27185496
Because the doctors are against it but are forced to advocate it in the same way that Gamestop shoves pre-ordering down your throat for extra dollars
>>27185546
I appreciate your kneejerk response, but I think you missed my later posts where I described how shaving truly isn't truly a consensual act because it's part of a requirement for living in civilized society-- like wearing pants.
Ask yourself: Is this really something I am -choosing- to do, or is it my culture forcing me into it?
>>27185576
>le conspiracy theory
Nice one. I am convinced.
>>27185491
it was just an example of how your infant experiences can affect who you will become. if the majority of men in the country you live have been circumcised then there's a good chance that whatever it's done to you will just seem normal since it's been done to everyone else, if that makes sense. psychology deals heavily in norms, things which differ from the norm are what get attention. if everyone had bipolar disorder then there wouldn't even be a term for it.
>>27185557
You said circumcision was a "cultural requirement" and proceeded to defend it from that angle.
I simply stated that it's not really a "cultural requirement" in the US. It's a common custom but it's not required and far from universal.
I never said circumcision is wrong BECAUSE it's not a cultural requirement. That was something you incorrectly inferred.
Nothing I posted implied that the reason why I think circumcision is wrong is because it's not a cultural requirement in the US. That's not my argument and never was.
>>27185594
It's not a conspiracy, it's a "cosmetic" procedure that brings in extra revenue to the hospital
>>27185580
I'm not doing anything because "culture". Your comparison between facial hair and millions of nerve endings being severed is dumb as hell.
>>27185573
>one small organization of people with a shitty website means doctors as a whole are against it
You guys are adorable. Really, you are.
>>27185538
The only context that matters is if it will be of significant harm. There is absolutely no such case where not cutting will bring more harm than cutting, except in some very very rare complications.
If you did not have personal and societal biases influencing your opinion you would not want the most sensitive part of your body cut off, I guarantee.
>>27185608
It sounds like you never declared your actual stance on the issue. You replied to my post telling me why I was wrong, but you didn't even bother to explain what you thought. Cowardly.
I'll give you a chance now to explain what you think.
Unless your whole shtick is coming online and being a contrarian without offering anything novel yourself...
>>27185629
What is the entirety of the civilized world's medical associations outside of the U.S.
Nobody cares or knows if you are (un)circumcised. Fuck off whining about this stupid shit. Stop whining about muh wimminz. Stop posting pictures of girls and of anime. Stop with that stupid queen of b or anzu or whatever the fuck you like to post. Holy fuck what is wrong with you retards. Get off your greasy asses and get a fucking job.
>>27185638
>makes an appeal to a priori knowledge
>defends it with consequentialism
LOL
Girlfriend scheduled a visit with the doc for me later this week. Can't wait to get rid of this useless flap of skin!
>Spent years restoring
>Currently at a CI-3, working my way to CI-4 as an end goal
>Literally have the best of both worlds
>Cut friends in denial about aesthetics and uncut friends talking about sensitivity and the gliding sensation and here I am able to fully experience both
>mfw
>>27185655
>Europe
>civilized
a hearty kek
>>27185677
that's fine, it's your choice
>>27185677
Go ahead, cut out your eye balls and kill yourself if you want. I don't give a fuck, just don't impose it on babies who can't consent to such an act
Anti-circumcision advocates who are males are pretty much the male equivalent of the SJW tumblrites. You guys have recognized that our culture is shifting into a culture a victimhood. A culture of victimhood is a culture where being a victim is a virtue and gains you power.
By complaining about circumcision, you are trying (futilely I might add) to posture yourselves as victims so that you can get a piece of that delicious victim pie. Ultimately, this a waste of time a fruitless endeavor when it comes to resisting the SJW movement. You are trying to gain power back under a structure that they have created.
This is retarded.
Instead of doing that, you could try to dismantle the idea of victimhood=good and find other things that we can raise up together as virtuous.
>>27185677
supreme bait my man
9/10
I need to stop browsing when the Americans come on. You are all retarded.
>>27185710
Still doesn't do much about your nonexistent nerve endings. But good on you anon.
>>27185812
>anyone who takes a stance against anything is tumblr
>>27185812
idk man. if someone is against fucking up babies i'd tend to agree with them
>>27185629
>one small organization of people with a shitty website means doctors as a whole are against it
The medical consensus in Holland is that circumcision is wrong and physicians have a duty to strongly discourage parents from doing it to their kids.
Funny how you guys are against harming babies by cutting off a negligible piece of vestigial tissue, but think it's okay to harm babies by shoving vaccines and antibiotics down their throats.
>>27185847
Well yeah,
but the sensitivity is back, which was more than I was expecting
>>27185677
You better hope she's not just getting you to get circumcised then leaves you
That happened to my friend, she got off on watching guys mutilate themselves to keep her
>>27185677
>flap of skin
If you were uncut and not a liar you would know that the foreskin isn't a "flap".
"Flap" is a silly-sounding word pro-circers use to diminish the prepuce. Objectively speaking it's not a flap any more than your teeth are flaps or your scrotum is a flap.
>>27185934
Try a little harder.
Maybe on /pol/ or /v/
>>27185934
>a negligible piece of vestigial tissue
Except that's wrong
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1464-410x.1999.0830s1034.x/abstract
>>27185934
Your country needs to be nuked if people actually believe this.
>>27185812
Ad hominem dog shit.
Come back with a real argument.
>>27186012
>British "research journal"
>Argument is about cultural circumcision in America
Wonder if those mushmouthed limeys have any biases?
I don't have to convince anyone about my rights. It wouldn't bring me peace if America banned genital male mutilation tomorrow. I'll associate with those that respect me, and disconnect with those that disrespected me (i.e. biological parents). This has brought me peace. I haven't talked to my mom in 3 years.
>>27186551
you can't blame your parents when they were lied to by kike doctors
Could I sue my parents or the doctor or the hospital that had me circumcised?
I'll admit my circumcision was top notch, I can fap no problem without any lube, but I had nothing wrong with my penis so there is no logical reason for me to be circumcised yet my parents asked for it, and the doctor went through with it.
And any rabbi that performed a circumcision needs to go to prison for molestation or something, they suck the kike baby penis after they circumcise it, if any other people sucked a kids penis they would go to jail yet kikes get away with it.
>>27186767
>Could I sue my parents or the doctor or the hospital that had me circumcised?
www.arclaw.org
>I'll admit my circumcision was top notch
Saying stuff like that in any kind of lawsuit will likely destroy your case.
>>27186872
>Saying stuff like that in any kind of lawsuit will likely destroy your case.
As will calling people "kikes".
Americunt and jew here
If I have a son I won't allow the snipping of the foreskin. Teach the kid proper hygiene and when he's an adult he can snip it off of he chooses
>>27186956
Glad to hear it, man.
Do you know about the whole balanopreputial lamina deal?
There's literally nothing wrong with being cut
>>27187293
I'm cut and I don't feel that way.
I'd like to have my ridged band.
>>27185372
What did your therapist say?
There's a psychologist in Boston who specializes in counseling men who hate being cut.
He's cut himself (he is Jewish) and is a staunch opponent of this barbaric and disgusting practice.
Here he is giving a speech against circumcision at the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe hearing a couple of years ago.
Not sure how much he charges or what kind of insurance he takes. Might be worth looking into.
>>27188073
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ec92eRrnWdY
I hate my life, and being circumcised is just another line in my list of things I hate about myself.
I am fairly optimistic that medicine will find a cure/solution for our problem within our lifetime, but I much rather be long dead before it.
>>27188286
>I hate my life
I bet what would make it a lot better would be to just go to your room and play with your foreskin and feel the pleasure of it
but they literally chopped it off so you can't.
It's fucking bullshit. Life is tons of work, stress, regret, more work, more work, depression, stress again, then you fucking die.
And on top of it all the pleasure of the most natural, comforting, safe "high" has been (at least partially) taken from you. The icing on the cake.
It's absolute bullshit.
>tfw still have part of my frenelum
I lucked out pretty well. Not nearly as much as having it all but there's still a small sensitive spot.
Hopefully I will get in on one of foregen's human trials whenever us amerifats wake up and start to fund them.
>>27188365
Next time you're aroused and having some alone time, try playing with just that area and compare it to playing with just the glans itself.
The difference is remarkable. The frenular area has a considerably different and more specialized innervation than the glans.
Of course this would apply even more if you hadn't been cut but still pretty much every dude I know finds the frenular area to be way more pleasurable to touch than the glans proper.
I, too, may some day commit suicide because of my mutilation.
Foregen seems kind of suspicious but I may as well live until it is confirmed scam or not.
I need to ask my parents if they will buy me a foreskin if foregen becomes real.
If they are unwilling, I may need to get a job to save up.
>>27188365
They smell like vaporware. I have bigger faith in the field of burn victims.
Not only should routine infant circumcision be banned, but all men who were circumcised without consent should be compensated.
But who should pay? The doctors?
>>27187010
Basic understanding. I was not born with a penis but my husband was he's uncut and I would spend a good amount of time educating myself if I was going to have a boy.
>>27188450
IMO the doctors who performed it and the government for their illegal 1996 female circ law (not that I'm saying it's bad they banned female circ--I'm glad they did).
To ban it for female children and not extend male children the same protection smacks of a violation of Equal Protection.
>>27188473
I'm cut and unhappy about it but hearing this made me feel a little better. Thanks.
>>27188497
:/ sorry man that's rough did your parents do it for religious reasons or just b/c common practice in the US?
I figure if children ever become a thing for us the best we can do is teach them to be good caring people and let them make their own decisions when it comes to body and spirituality.
The argument never really goes anywhere because most people are just stuck living with a decision that was made by somebody else.
What are the claimed benefits of circumcision? Decreased risk of urinary infections in infants, some STDs, and penile cancer in adults. It's also a treatment option for phimosis.
The hygiene aspect isn't an issue because showers and bathing exist, and as the Mayo Clinic notes, "washing beneath the foreskin of an uncircumcised penis is generally easy."
STDs are also not an issue because, unless you live in some third world pisspot, you can use a condom and not just rawdog any wet hole you come across. Research has also not found circumcision to be of help in stopping the spread of HIV from gay sex, which means even if you're a lady your butthole may not be as safe as you think it is.
Penile Cancer is rare, and according to the American Cancer Society occurs in less than 1 in 100,000 men. Estimates for 2016 are approximately 2,030 new diagnosed cases and 340 deaths from penile cancer. As of 2014, the U.S. population was a about 318.9 million. The major risk factors of penile cancer are HPV, for which a condom would cover the same area of the penis that circumcision would affect, and phimosis, an affliction that exists in greater supply on the internet than it does in real life.
Phimosis is considered NORMAL for infants and young children. Most boys are able to retract the foreskin by age 3, and less than 1% still have problems at age 18. A British study published in 2001 found a 0.6% incidence of pathological phimosis in boys by age 15. It can potentially be treated by manual stretching, by corticosteroids or by surgery. While circumcision may be necessary, this is only in cases of the most severe phimosis, for which all other treatments are ineffective.
>>27188660
Not a whole lot of actual benefit if you live in a modern society and have access to soap & water and condoms. So why does it still occur so much? The major reason is religious ritual. It's estimated that 1 in 3 men are circumcized, 70% of whom are muslim. Let's not forget about our Jewish friends here, either.
Outside of religioun, the reason that parents have their children circumcized are laregely non-medical: wanting the child to look like his cut father, because "other boys" are cut, or because they perceive being cut to be normal.
There is just no reason for it unless Allah or Yahweh wills it. Urinary tract infections are far more common in girls than in boys, and are treated with antibiotics. Recommending circuscision to prevent penile cancer would be like recomending all women get a preventative double-mastectomy in world where there are 95% fewer cases of breast cancer. There are also potential complications from botched circumcisions including erectile dysfunction and even phimosis.
The fact of the matter is, almost all cut guys were cut as an infant and had no say in the matter. Circumcision removes the most sensitive nerves on the penis, which lessens sexual pleasure If this were happening to women there'd be an outcry about genetial mutilation being done on a person who is unable to consent.
Born too late to have a foreskin.
Born too early to have a foreskin.
Born just in time to kill myself over not having a foreskin.
>>27188564
I had some issues with a narrowing of my preputial orifice when I was about a year old (to the extent that my ability to urinate was affected), and the doctor went straight for a complete circumcision instead of trying something less invasive.
Pretty much no one else in my close family is cut, but this was before the days of the Internet being widely used, and while they really didn't want to do it, they agreed on the doctor's rec. They pretty much had no idea what circumcision even actually was.
There are so many other options to treat issues like this, like preputioplasty or topical creams. Circumcision to treat a narrowed preputial orifice in a baby as a firstline treatment is insane...even the British Medical Association says it's not appropriate.
Babies and little boys naturally have a really narrow orifice of the foreskin; it's normal. It just has to be big enough to let the urine come out easily. If something irritates it, it can contract. Getting it uncontracted shouldn't require amputating half the penis skin. They cut a LOT off and then sewed the remaining skin to the head of my penis, which is a relatively common circ style in Europe [though of course in Europe circumcision in general is rare] but not so much here in the states. And it sucks because it removes basically all the major pleasure zones of the penis. All I have left is just my glans and shaft skin. I barely feel anything. It blows.
I see it as kind of similar to the situation where baby girls sometimes have trouble urinating due to labial adhesions. If a doctor immediately amputated a girl's labia instead of doing a less invasive procedure to let her urinate, I imagine people would flip shit.
>>27188564
>>27188755
By the way, if you're the type who can stomach videos of surgery, check this out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjRc3NJo2V8
You'll notice that all the penile tissue is preserved. It's far less invasive than a full-on circumcision.
This particular method I don't think existed back when I was small, but other preputioplasty techniques did.
>>27185126
This is bullshit.
Just because you're growing a beard doesnt mean you're going to spend the minutes of your time in any better or real way compared to someone who shaves.
This is the poorest argument for circumcision for a long time
>>27188879
Pro-circ arguments are always bullshit. Attempts to justify the unjustifiable will always degrade into the ridiculous.
If you tried to justify female circumcision or even the kinds of FGM where they just prick the vulva and don't actually remove any tissue other than maybe a single drop of blood and a few skin cells by saying, "Yeah well women have to SHAVE. That's way worse than having your genitals cut without your consent" no one would even reply seriously. They'd think you were either a troll or a complete nutjob.
>>27188755
Fuck man that's horrible but thank you. This is something I can remember if I have a boy and he has problems urinating. That and to not let a doctor pressure me into a full circumcision.
And your right if they did that to women people would lose their minds.
>>27188755
I've seen the procedure before it's pretty grusom
"Just a little snip!", they said...
>>27185662
Why are you even here if you don't find this shit entertaining?
The only opinion on this that matters is the opinion of who's looking at your dick.
My cut penis has struck awe and a sense of anticipatory terror in scores of women, so I'm happy with my hammer. It's a ten pounder.
>>27184717
Funny thing how you don't mention consent.
>>27190036
>The only opinion on this that matters is the opinion of who's looking at your dick.
No, fuck you. The only opinion on my dick that matters is mine, and I hate being cut.
>>27185169
Circumcision is on the decline in america
