How is being gay NOT A CHOICE? I was watching tv and a commercial came on shilling Ellen Page's "Gaycation". In the promo she explained how being gay is NOT A CHOICE. This implies it's GENETIC. But that's not possible. Can someone please explain how being gay isn't a choice yet at the same time isn't genetic?You can't.People who say this are also the same people that say gender is a social construct. Can they not see the hypocrisy of saying being gay isn't a choice? Can they not see that sexual orientation is learned through environment and therefore a social construct as well?
>>27126321
>expecting logic from libcucks
These are the same people who say that a man can be born with a woman's brain, while at the same time denying that there's such a thing as a woman's brain because gender is socially constructed.
>>27126321
Being gay is a choice. Fags lose their "gay accent" when under anaesthesia, hypnosis, or light brain trauma.
It's probably prenatal brain trauma caused by excessive estrogen in the mother which feminizes the child. My father and grandfather are pretty much ordinary looking men, whereas I cannot grow a proper beard and have a whiny girly voice which I hate with a passion.
>>27126367
>>27126412
I KNOW it's a choice. But I want to hear what "argument" exists for it not being a choice. I want to see how someone could think it's possible to NOT be a choice.
why the fuck would anybody choose to be gay and why are there such low rates of success of self-hating gays correcting themselves into being straight
>>27126442
Well, I don't think it's a conscious choice, necessarily. I don't believe in a gay gene, but I do think certain things happen in life to push people towards homosexuality. Almost all of the fags I know were either molested as kids or had dysfunctional relationships with one or both parents.
>>27126457
That was Ellen's argument but this falls flat. As a child you aren't born knowing what sex you are attracted to. You are TOLD who you are attracted to through family, society, and media. It's conditioned into you. You aren't born knowing having sex with the opposite sex creates a baby, you learn that. You can't be born gay, because sexual orientation is a learned trait.
Now you might say "well if it's learned and society has historically pushed a heterosexual agenda, then how could gays come about?" The answer to this question lies in people with Borderline Personality Disorders. With BPD you have a contrarian attitude toward society so it would make sense that if all their life a BPD was told to be heterosexual they would start to lean towards homosexuality. I'm certain that if you were to evaluate a large body of gay people, the majority would have BPD.
Being gay is a choice. It's not genetic. Your sexual orientation is a social construct that you have learned about through society.
You really think it's a choice? Could you choose to be a gay? I know I couldn't.
>>27126594
You really think you were born and automatically knew you were attracted to the opposite sex and knew that man and woman make a baby? I know didn't. I learned that through family and society.
>brains literally hardwired through evolution to be hetero
>million things that could go wrong in the brains development
>still claiming it's a choice
>>27126607
So if homosexuality were the societal norm you think you'd be into dudes?
I hate fags but I think you're off the mark here. I do agree there can be an environmental component to attraction, but to deny the biological component is ludicrous.
>>27126434
thats called being 13 you faggot
It's not a choice, it's not genetic. It's conditioning.
Just like you don't genetically like monstergirls or hentai. Just like you don't make the choice to like monstergirls or hentai.
Something happened to make you like that, either the jews or by accident.
>>27126644
I am in my mid 20s. I obviously have some kind of hormonal problem but I'm too shy to see a doctor. All I can do is have a manly haircut and actively remember to try to keep my voice stoic and low when I talk.
>>27126617
This line of thinking implies it's impossible to be gay because being heterosexual is genetic. If being heterosexual is genetic and it's impossible to genetically be gay, then being gay has to be a conscious choice. You consciously choose to go against your evolutionary instincts.
Why were you watching Ellen Page's "Gaycation" in the first place faggot
>>27126642
Yes, I'm sure if a study were to be conducted on gay families raising children a larger percentage of those children would be gay. Especially if the parents had a gay agenda towards the child.
Sexual orientation is more complex than that.
When a classmate in elementary school heavily pressured me into showing him my pee pee it got hard. So that's just the way I always was, I didn't even know homosexuality was a thing back then. I've since fluctuated between straighter and gayer over the years.
It can be something you're "born with", but to say your environment doesn't affect it at all or that it's 100% a "choice" is nonsense. You can choose to act on gay urges and thoughts, but you can't choose to have those thoughts or what sexually arouses you. If you show a straight male a 10/10 pair of tits (in his eyes), assuming he doesn't have ED or is desensitized, he's going to become aroused. Likewise, gays can't decide to not get aroused when they see a perfect cock. It's moronic that religious fundamentalists (I have no problem with religion as a whole before you call me a fedora tipper) act as though it's something under one's control.
>>27126557
What you're doing is a lot of hypothesizing, I seriously doubt you have the prerequisite knowledge to even talk about this let alone make any strong conclusions about it. The same of course applies to many luguhbut advocates as well, a lot of them clearly talk shit.
Personally I don't see where your social conditioning angle comes from. Are you saying you never felt some sort of attraction to women even long before you hit puberty? Do you genuinely feel you are straight just because society said to be?
>>27126674
Think of all the mental illness people can get. They're not genetic and not a choice. As I said, the human body is insanely complex and everywhere shit can go wrong. If shit goes wrong and your instincts are set to like dicks, you're gay.
>>27126674
>This line of thinking implies it's impossible to be gay because being heterosexual is genetic.
Except it doesn't imply that. We are evolved toward certain traits, that doesn't mean there can't be individual anomalies.
you still can't avoid people resigning themselves into homosexuality because of hetero difficulties or sparities
like "all these seats at applebees are filled and there's a 40 minute wait so let's just go get some shitty BK"
guys are that shitty BK. girls are applebees. ultimately guys smell bad, have rough skin and stubble which doesn't feel good. girls have boneless samplers which smell great.
you can walk around in public holding a guys hand or holding a bag of BK you look just as self-serving either way. i'd rather have boneless wings.
>>27126816
>applebees
>good
You shit shit taste.
I pity you.
>choose to not be gay
>have long-term opposite ex partner I'll be marrying and breeding with in a few years
>still have freakish inclination to fuck all that up for no good reason
I dunno, I starting liking the same sex at like 11 and was diddled as a kid or anything, so I entertain the idea of it being a genetic predisposition or something. Not to say all identifying gays are born that way, because as we all know many are not.
>>27126816
yeah that's why girls are always complaining "all the good guys are gay"
go back to /pol/ you fucking asshats
>>27126757
I felt an attraction because I was told by society that I was to be attracted to women. In preschool I did not feel a strong attraction to women or men. I had yet to be conditioned on sexuality at that age.
>>27126800
Being gay is too common to be an "anomaly".
Lol you guys are seriously crazy if you think people choose to be gay. Can you honestly imagine that extremely flamboyant faggy guy going "look out girls, I decided to like pussy now!!" Never in a million years will that happen. If you think it's a choice to have gay feelings you definitely have some homo tendencies you choose not to act upon. Have fun being in the closet.
this has always been a dumb way of framing things. the libido wants what the libido wants, and the issue of volition only comes into play when gay stuff is involved. it's really retarded
>>27126853
If he's in a flyover state or some shit it's not really his fault.
Their local fare is usually just diners and those will give you food poisoning.
>>27126859
*wasnt
Fuck the roboto
>>27126903
>Being gay is too common to be an "anomaly".
No it's not.
>>27126557
The first thing that my body recognized as a sexual object was another boy. From age 8 when I discovered masturbation to age 12 when I had my first orgasm, and up until age 14 it was all about boys. Then I started thinking about grills too but sporadically. Where do I fit in your theory?
Watch this senpai
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLkjXVaLYBo
>>27126909
You choose to be gay at a younger age through social conditioning. You don't flip flop randomly at random ages. You make a conscious choice at a certain point in time to either be gay or be straight.
You're trying to argue that being gay isn't s choice by saying "someone who has already CHOSEN to be gay would never make the choice to be straight". Well duh, someone who has already chosen to be gay isn't going to choose to be staright. They've already made the decision to be gay.
I doubt anyone's born and wants to gag on chads dick from the get go.
You bitches didn't even know Chad yet.
>>27126966
>You choose to be gay at a younger age through social conditioning
Nigger what
This doesn't explain why gay people existed in societies where it was heavily vilified.
>>27126949
You hadn't been conditioned on sexuality at that age and you made a conscious decision to become sexually aroused by the same sex.
>where do I fit
>do I fit
>I
>I
Stop thinking you were born a special snowflake because you are gay.
>>27127001
If you read the thread instead of cherry picking you'd know I mentioned Borderline Personality Disorders and their ties to a contrarian societal attitude. Read the thread.
>>27126966
>sexual attraction has nothing to do with subconscious mind and physiological feedback or biology, it's a purely intellectual choice
None of what you're saying makes sense. None of it.
>>27126966
Are you honestly trying to tell me you yourself chose to be straight at some point? Dude you're fucking gay.. People just like men women or both and the only choice is whether or not you act upon it. You obviously chose to ignore your homo side lol well we're not all like you luckily.
>>27127002
It wasn't conscious at all. I didn't even know about sex at that time. I looked at boys and my no-no parts felt funny. Do you know the meaning of the word "conscious" or should I find its definition for you?
That's as stupid as saying that the dog makes a conscious choice to salivate while seeing and smelling a delicious steak. It's not conscious, it's a purely physiological response to this type of stimulus.
>>27127001
>>27127019
>>27127038
>giving this joker (You)s
>>27126321
>This implies it's GENETIC. But that's not possible.
Epigenetics.
>>27126321
I don't exactly see how is it even relevant whether it is by choice or not.
If I'm attracted to little girlshypothetically of coursedoes it mean it's okay if I'm a pedo all of the sudden?
>>27126557
But what if you realize you only get boners from guys and not girls through no fault of your own?
>>27126321
this thread is bait and you should feel bad for replying to it.
>>27127019
>subconscious isn't affected by outside factors like society
>subconscious is determined by genetics
Yeah, you're dumb.
>>27127038
Yes you choose your sexuality. You choose to either conform to societal norms, or to be a contrarian.
>>27127055
It was. No one told you that you should like girls. You decided all by yourself that you liked boys.
>>27127100
You socially conditioned yourself to like boys.
>>27127140
How do I reverse and stop being so gay?
I want to live a socially acceptable life.
>>27127166
Get a gf, you faggot?
I'd love to be gay just to not have to deal with women
>>27126321
It could easily be related to stuff like the level of hormones the fetus was exposed to during certain periods of development or other factors. There's no reason to assume that there's no biological basis for being gay.
>>27127194
I have one, but I'm still a faggot.
>>27127002
this is what's wrong with 4ch.
"hurr durr the I doesn't exists it's all groups and hiveminds and objectivity"
>>27127166
It's too late. You've made your choice. You'd have to undo years of conditioning. It's a very hard task when it has become embedded in your conscious. I suggest you make a better choice, next time.
>>27127268
Now you're bisexual, you fag. Better than being gay.
What is the argument for it not being genetic? Just because it doesn't help you procreate doesn't mean it can't have a genetic cause, you know.
>>27126321
It's not exactly a choice, but there's no genetic basis for it. I think it's similar to being attracted to redheads or white guys - you can't really explain why you are, and you dont choose it, youjust happen to like certain features of certain people.
The gay accent is completely fake though
ofcourse its a choice
>im totally gay, so gay oh so gay
>but id fuck your gf
yea fag pull that once more see how many of your teeth gets knocked out
>>27127274
>calling it 4ch
i like this new meme
It can be genetic. Nature can produce homosexual animals when an animals population becomes too large.
>>27127319
Is it better or worse to get cucked by a fag?
>>27127385
Yup. It's beneficial for social animals to have more adults than young. If gay uncle Ug is helping care for kids too, without having any of his own, they will be more likely to survive.
>>27126412
>gay accent
m8, there's a difference between being gay and acting gay.
Acting gay is 100% a choice, it's a lifestyle you engage in and train new mannerisms on purpose, just to help you pick up blokes. Even a straight guy can choose to act gay if he had some bizarre reason to.
Actually being attracted to men is biology. It's very difficult to train your brain to like a gender that doesn't give you boners, and you usually relapse anyway if you do try. (See: pray the gay away camps, they've caused more loveless marriages than the concept of chastity. You really can't love someone whose body is a big streak of nothing to you.)
There's lots of pressure when you're gay to act gay unless you want to not seem attractive and die alone. So people who aren't even interested in acting that way try it and fail, which can make the whole thing look like a show. But that's just peer pressure.
The moral of the story is, gay guys are coming out of the goddamn walls, and they all just want to act like normal guys and fuck each other, but they're too self conscious and all fake being fabulous to each other.
>>27127554
They still chose to be gay. They weren't born knowing they liked the same sex.
>>27127591
Straight people aren't born knowing they like the opposite gender. Your point is invalid.
>>27127591
but preteens are not sexual regardless of orientation
>>27127591
You would know this how...? You aren't gay. You're straight.
My first crush was on fucking Robin Hood at age waytooyoungtoremember, because he was dashing as fuck.
First time I had any purely sexual feelings at all, it was yet again for a guy in my class.
Presumably you had similar experiences with crushes and eventual sexual feelings about girls.
I don't know what you're looking for people to say here m8.
>>27126321
>Can they not see that sexual orientation is learned through environment and therefore a social construct as well?
This.
Sexuality is a choice but it's still disgusting to see other people purposely degenerate themselves by saying they're gay and then going on to say it's genetic.
And a lot of them are even proud of it. Absolutely disgusting.
>>27127688
Erm, I am not the person you were responding to.
I am gay.
>this implies it is genetic
Not necessarily. It could be environmental reasons, psychological trauma for example usually produces a lot of gays. The point is that since it's kind of a "one-way" deal (no way to go from gay to straight), why punish them for it? If you want to think of gays as sick in your own head fine but do you go around beating retards for being retarded?
If being gay was a choice, why would people who are gay choose a life full of rejection and ostracism?
>>27127618
That's my point dumbass. Read the thread. Sexual orientation is a choice.
>>27127755
Read the thread libcuck. Gay people chose to be gay through social conditioning.
Sorry in advance for any grammar mistakes, English ain't my first.
OP, I've read the whole thread, and I can easily come up with two things about you: you're a psychologist wannabe, and you're in the closet but don't want to accept it. When you're a child, even before puberty, you feel attraction towards a certain gender, without even really knowing what genders are. Thus, every sexuality is natural. We all have a certain sexuality (unless we're asexual, which would be a non-sexualityt), we're not conditioned to anything like that; a lot of people in this thread already told you that, even gay people. The thing you said about BDPs is total bullshit, since nowadys society totally accepts gay people, thus the desire of being gay isn't contrarian to society anymore, yet there are still gay people. Society can't condition your sexuality, but it can condition your perspective on sexuality. Some say that heterosexuality and homosexuality usually isn't a black and white thing, you actually have a certain level of sexual acceptance for each sex: that's why there are bisexual people, for example. But sometimes, some circles in society that shit on gay people, radical groups that don't accept equality between straight and gay people, those groups can sometimes have influence in kids, making them supress their gay tendencies, and even become a gay hater themselves. That's what happened to you. You're not just in the closet, you don't want to get out of it, man. And you make yourself believe that's the right choice by, in yoor mind, degrading gay people, saying they are crooked, unnatural, and inferior to straight people. If you didn't think like that, you wouldn't care wether someone is gay or not, and you wouldn't get pissed off by someone like Ellen saying some random liberal stuff about it. You are the one who has been condiyioned, but not on sexuality, but on your perspective of it.
>>27127016
This is some armchair psychology
>>27127767
I have a theory about people like you.
I think you're so autistic that you're totally asexual and can't think of any gender in an actual loving way.
So you "pick" one to pretend to be interested in and think that's what it's like for everyone else.
Either that or you're just intensely homophobic and want to believe you could be straight if you tried really hard. In which case stop the self-hate man, this goes nowhere.
>>27127801
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/largest-ever-study-into-the-gay-gene-erodes-the-notion-that-sexual-orientation-is-a-choice-9875855.html
https://www.theguardian.com/science/blog/2015/jul/24/gay-genes-science-is-on-the-right-track-were-born-this-way-lets-deal-with-it
>>27127385
This
Commentariolo originalo
>>27127957
>sources are liberal newspapers with a strong liberal agenda
Stop posting extremely biased articles. Those sources aren't reliable at all.
>>27127891
Your point was that if being gay is s choice then being straight is a choice too and then when I agreed with you, you got assblasted. Who's REALLY the autistic one here?
>>27126321
If being gay is a choice, being straight is a choice. You choose which partners to pursue, not which ones you're attracted to.
The distinctions gay and straight always and forever have seemed retarded to me. You choose partners, not what makes your nethers tingle.
>>27126903
>>27126922
B T F O
Desusempai
>>27128015
>scientific studies
>biased
>not reliable
Nice meme
So where are your sources to support your opinion?
>>27128019
Being gay is very common. Part of the whole gay agenda is that gays are everywhere. I don't think you know what an anomaly is. An anomaly is a very rare occurrence. If being gay was an anomaly there wouldn't be a gay rights movement or a gay community. Being gay is quite common.
>>27128016
It is. You should try reading the thread.
resource pollution, food and water, pollutes the hormones of a developing child
>>27126442
It depends what you define as a choice, i'll assume you're an adult or probably age 18+. I'll assume you've seen a nice dog, it's cute, can run off the lead, will be nice around children ect. And you've possibly seen a shitty dog, it has a poor family that mistreated it and it acts horribly to children or other animals.
Did either animal choose to be good or bad, did it choose to be abused and not learn right from wrong, did it choose to be trained. No, it wasn't neccesarily genetic, but it also wasn't a choice.
Tldr; If something isn't genetic, doesn't mean it was chosen.
>>27128046
>implying a scientific studies can't be biased
>implying those studies weren't just looking for results or subjects that confirmed their hypothesis
>>27128052
It can be an anomaly if it's rare. It's not like 40 % of people are gay
>>27128080
The amount of gay people in this world aren't an anomaly. Being gay isn't an anomaly. It's much too common to be considered an anomaly. You can go to almost town in America and find a gay person. You can anywhere in the world and find s gay person. Being gay isn't an anomaly.
why would anyone choose to be gay, ever. just why
I see you're not answering this >>>27127816, OP
You know I'm right, or what?
>>27128101
Cancer is an anomaly of your body but I can assure you there are WAY more people with cancer than there are gay people.
A good estimate for the amount of gay/lesbian/bi/trans people is 3,8% in America
>3,8%
>not anomalous
>>27128071
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25399360
So how exactly is this biased? Do you really think it would be published on multiple websites if it wasn't accurate or biased?
>>27128190
It's because I've already answered those points in replies to other posts. And your post is an ad hominem post you aren't contributing to the discussion. You are trying to paint me in a poor light to deflect from the fact that you have no valid points.
>>27128101
>this logic
you can also go anywhere in the world and find a deformed baby
lol
>>27128285
It's not an anomaly and neither is cancer. Cancer is in our genetics.
Those studies don't support a body of evidence. They are a SINGLE study coming to a conclusion supported by an uninformed populace. They are one study that assures the libcucks are "right" in their thinking. Show me a BODY of evidence pointing to the same conclusion.
op you're fucking stupid holy shit.
>borderline personality disorder
shut the fuck up oh my god
>>27128329
>shilling the special snowflake meme this hard
>>27128365
Coming from a guy who believes gender is a social construct yet at the same time doesn't believe sexual orientation is. You're hilarious. Take the log out of your eye before taking the speck out of mine.
>>27128342
>Cancer is in our genetics.
Cancer is a flaw of our genetics in the conditions of modern life. Much like faggotry.
I think it's mostly hormonal t b h
If op got on estrogen I'm sure after a while he would crave a big fat cock; that is, if he doesn't crave one already.
>>27128342
Sexual preference is in our genes too you conservatard, almost everything is.
Oh and I can give you more studies if you like:
https://scholar.google.be/scholar?q=homosexuality+genes&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&as_vis=1
You almost seem like a closeted gay, too scared to admit it kek
>>27128443
He doesn't even need estrogen. The prison gay phenomenon is very real.
>>27128443
The amount of ad hominem in this thread proves there is no logical argument for sexual orientation NOT being a choice.
Thank you for proving my points.
>>27128393
>>27127708
>>27126557
>>27126321
>Being denied less rights is a choice
>Getting killed by bigots is a choice
>Getting called homophobic slurs is a choice
>Religion denying your lifestyle is a choice
>>27128451
More ad hominem backed by studies that cherry pick results. A body of evidence isn't 2 studies.
I might take all your arguments more seriously but you're using ad hominem to make your points have weight.
>>27128495
It's not ad hominem, we're not painting you in a "poor light", as you say. You belive gay people are inferior to straight people. I was going to say 'for some reason', but we all know the reason: you're homophobic because you're sacred to admit you're gay.
>>27128342
>Cancer is in our genetics.
no
there are genetic predispositions
but this does not mean it is genetic
>>27126321
>This implies it's GENETIC.
It's currently believed that variations in sexual orientation are the result of hormonal conditions during gestation. Not quite the same thing as being genetic, but it would nonetheless be related to how the brain is physically formed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prenatal_hormones_and_sexual_orientation
>Can they not see that sexual orientation is learned through environment
There are no correlating factors to support this. Psychiatry has been over this debate dozens of time already.
>People who say this are also the same people that say gender is a social construct.
Gender is not a social construct. Gender ROLES are a social construct. i.e. Saying that all men have to enjoy playing with G.I. Joe figures or taking up sports would be example of gender roles. While I think the male brain may be generally more drawn to such interests, it's not some kind of universal axiom. There are guys who naturally have zero interest in that stuff, and that's perfectly fine.
>>27128549
>genetic predisposition
>not in our genetics
Riiiiight ;^)
>>27128495
It is ad hominem. You're trying to reduce the validity of my points about sexual orientation being a choice by saying I'm a closeted gay. Also I never said gays were inferior. You did. Stop using ad hominem to justify your opinions. Try using logic and reason instead of emotion.
>>27126321
The "gay gene" is implausible, because group/kin selection effects are too weak to explain the prevalence. More likely is the "gay germ" hypothesis. We already know infectious diseases can alter sexual attraction (eg. toxoplasmosis makes mice attracted to cats), so it's plausible that you can literally catch gayness. That would be an example of non-genetic and non-chosen homosexuality. And if such a disease exists, it could well be the case that it only causes gayness if it affects the brain early enough, so adults might be immune. Note how strongly most cultures attempt to keep gays away from children.
>>27128487
>people don't make bad choices
good logic
fags are retarded
>>27126321
Gay can be a choice though, I was born straight. Over time my sexual interests changed from just women to femboys/traps and then into masculine men, now I consider myself bi.
>>27126903
>In preschool I did not feel a strong attraction to women or men.
Are you fuckin srs anon?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puberty
>>27128605
>>genetic predisposition
>>not in our genetics
>Riiiiight ;^)
jfc
your genetics may make you more likely to have cancer, but that's not the same as your genetics causing cancer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability
>>27126321
Being gay is just a fetish. You aren't born gay, they just are so mentally ill that they think they like the same gender. Same thing with trannys. They are so mentally ill they think they were supposed to be born girls when they weren't.
Being gay is a choice. A degenerate choice.
>>27128593
This post more or less sums up why OP is wrong. Furthermore, OP is using misleading rhetoric (the false dichotomy that a trait has to either be a choice or genetic) to stir up shit. I'm so glad social conservatives will be a quaint relic of the past in ten years.
If sexual orientation is a choice, then for arguments sake, you could choose to be gay. That is your logic. That we all choose who we're sexually and romantically attracted to, which is ridiculous.
I'm straight and I couldn't elect to be sexually and romantically attracted to men because I find nothing about men sexually or romantically attractive. Probably the same for you. So why does the same not apply to homosexuals?
>>27128593
>There are no correlating factors to support this. Psychiatry has been over this debate dozens of time already.
Psychiatry is a cabal of materialistic kikes and deluded fat white women.
Many gays are victims of their uncle's cocks and many prison bitches were once straight.
>>27128705
>Psychiatry is a cabal of materialistic kikes and deluded fat white women.
How did you come to this conclusion? Present evidence. I know this works on /pol/ but elsewhere you can't just shout "JEWISH LIES" to discredit an entire field.
>>27128639
Same. The fact that furfags and futa fetishists exist is proof enough that sexuality is a choice.
>>27126321
Just accept that sexuality is fluid and everything is a-okay after that.
>>27126321
Homosexuality is a mental illness. A fag can't help being gay anymore than an aspie can help being retarded. Fags can choose not to act on their urges, though.
>>27128605
Do you not know what the subconscious, Freud wannabe? You obvoiusly think gay people are inferior, or not exactly inferior, but "extrange" or something along the lines. Latent homophobia, my friiend. The fact that you see us calling you a closeted gay an ad hominem is already proof that you take proud on your heterosexuality, or on the thought that you are straight, while gays aren't, and that gays are just people with mental diseases. You keep telling us to bring up proof that there is gay gene or wahtever, but you really have no reason to think the way you do, your proofs are also nothing but excuses for your twisted logic.
>>27128688
That's because through social conditioning you chose to be straight. It's very difficult to undo social conditioning which is why you find the idea of switching to being gay ludicrous.
>>27128678
You should reread the thread. I never said being gay is EITHER genetic or a choice. I said I believe it's a choice, don't believe it's genetic, and would like to hear the arguments for how it could be neither genetic or a choice. You created the dichotomy yourself because you disagree with me and see trying to discredit me to validate your own opinions. Because after all how could YOU be wrong.
>>27128609
Note also that anal sex is much more effective at spreading diseases than vaginal sex, and that homosexuals are often highly promiscuous, so this kind of behavioral modification makes sense from the perspective of the hypothetical disease.
>>27128764
You keep trying to discredit me through ad hominem. Start using logic and reason and people on this board might take you seriously.
>>27128729
>discredit an entire field.
It's already discredited by the mass-drugging of depressed or anxious kids.
Freud, maslow, adler, reich etc. All jews.
>>27126321
I am gay. I think it's genetic. Maybe not a specific gene but a combination of them, you know? Or chemicals in the brain, or an imbalance you're exposed to in the womb.
I don't think it's a social thing, at the least. Or at least for some gay people. I have a good relationship with both of my parents and for the most part, always have. I get along with both males and females and I wasn't molested as a child.
T b h, I do think it's is social for some fags. Like the ones who were molested or had very bad experiences with females. Usually those ones are the in-your-face BORN THIS WAY~ types.
But I do think some gays can be relatively normal.
>>27128764
Nice analysis, you butthurt faggot.
>>27126442
Hormones. If your hormones are off balance you might want to be the opposite gender or fuck the same gender.
>>27128773
I could easily be wrong. I would just need to see some evidence that I'm wrong. Come on, I'll even take a wikipedia page - just give me some reason, any reason, to take you seriously and I will.
To be clear, I've never once seen a conservative in real life actually try and convince a liberal of anything. They just shout their talking points at the top of their lungs and then act aggrieved when asked to substantiate them in any way.
>>27128616
But it's consistent. Why are their people that are against homosexuals? What does it to their personal lives? A bad choice for who? Are you comparing Homosexuality as a bad boy/girl phase teenagers do to rebel? Are you that autistic?
>>27128913
>Why are their people that are against homosexuals?
Because they're weak.
>>27128833
I have a mental illness. My drugs alleviate my symptoms. I have no problem with Jews. You need to present some pretty serious evidence to change my mind, and this is like, no evidence at all.
>>27128937
>placebo effect
Doc says "oi goyim take theese pills they will help". You believe they will help and they magically help when it's really all mental.
>>27126434
I'm attracted to men and I grow facial hair at a normal : if not above normal : rate. The argument of "men are only homosexual if they have feminine biology" has no real basis.
>>27128937
>I have a mental illness.
Then hang yourself off a bridge and free the world of your defective mind.
>>27128971
>men are only homosexual if they have feminine biology has no real basis.
That's true. But twinky people are way more likely to swallow dick.
>>27128799
Ditch the ad hominem shit and adress what I'm telling you already, you're in no position to just claim ad hominem on me and not answer after you discredit the studies some anons gave you as proof of their points for being published by liberal newspapers.
Honestly, I think all this debate is delusional, we're trying to analize such a complex mental/genetic state like sexuality, while our sciences in both fields are very far from proving any of what we're saying here. You and those who are arguing you on your theory can't prove their poonts, so I ask myself, why did you begin this debate? You're just hypothesizing. And so, I hypothesized myself, but not over your impossible to prove theory, but over why you're theorizing that. And you just answered saying it's ad hominem.
>>27128988
I doubt it. All of the homosexuals in my area look pretty masculine, and all of the twinky looking guys I've met were heterosexual.
>>27129004
This is a discussion thread and you are mad a discussion is taking place? Oh boy this is rich. If you want a scientific debate on sexuality with "defintive" answers try making a thread on /sci/ or somewhere else.
>>27128761
>Fags can choose not to act on their urges, though.
That's true, but the thing is that there's no real harm that comes from those urges as long as they aren't sluts.
>>27128972
>Then hang yourself off a bridge and free the world of your defective mind.
Tough talk coming from /r9k/, a board that literally erupts with impotent rage upon hearing that others are socially functional.
Listen, this is why you stupid fucks are going to be obsolete. It's not because your ideas are bad (they are bad, just to be clear) but because you're all so hostile and bitter that you can't make any allies. I'm an American, I could have voted for Trump, but rest assured that if Sanders or Clinton get elected, you have only yourself to blame.
>>27129078
I'm not mad about the discussion, I sat here reading this posts for a while and saw it was going nowhere.
>>27129098
>It's not because your ideas are bad (they are bad, just to be clear) but because you're all so hostile and bitter that you can't make any allies. I'm an American, I could have voted for Trump, but rest assured that if Sanders or Clinton get elected, you have only yourself to blame.
Are you shitting me? Have you not been paying attention to what Berniefags have been doing at Trump rallies?
>>27126442
There is no "choice" Your brain says it and thats how it is, but i dont think its a gene, it has something to do with uhh hormones and shit
Take it like that
you stand there between:
>A sexy girl with the puffiest vulva in existance
>A sexy guy with a big bulge
You choose freely, depending on what makes you hornier
Its not genes, its hormones I belive
I mean, it could be condition too, dont get me wrong because I unironically experienced attraction towards guys when i was 4th grade, because i was hanging up with guys more (which is obvious for a little boy)
I say it could be both combined
>>27126321
being gay is genetic
but its a genetic fuckup
its a shitty hormone imbalance
they are genetic fuckups, like people with down syndrome
but then again, most traits are a result of a genetic fuckup
>>27126321
Why are the only two options a choice or genetic??
>>27127891
>he brings the tumblr-tier buzzwords and name-calling
Trash post tbqhwy fag
>libcucks unironically think people are born gay and not that it's forced upon them
desu I think it develops after birthI think of it like a kink
>>27129162
Haha. You got so BTFO by the other dude that you can't even come up with a good argument.
>>27129198
>People also unironically belive that people are born in the wrong gender and that its not due to their environment
If our purpose wasnt reproducing, what is it then?
Its certainly not "muh self fulfillment"
>>27129162
>Are you shitting me? Have you not been paying attention to what Berniefags have been doing at Trump rallies?
Regardless of what someone else is doing in some other place, telling me to kill myself instead of trying to convince me you're right is never a smart political move. It's literally wasting a vote for no reason other than pure assmad.
>>27128487
>More fucking buzzwords
>Wants to be treated like a pretty princess
>doesn't want to be called a faggot
You whiny little fag you want to be gay then deal with it I don't have to deal with you shit
>>27126607
But you didn't feel an innate urge in your teens to get a woman? Its not like you need to know how it works to be attracted to a woman
>>27129238
>If our purpose wasnt reproducing, what is it then?
The whole "we only exist to reproduce" thing is a meme. What good does reproduction do ? It's just an endless cycle that ultimately has no meaning. In reality we have no purpose. Our purpose is to die.
apparently gayness is apparent in twins and theres a higher chance for both twins to be gay or something. Doesnt matter really imo
>>27126367
>These are the same people who say that a man can be born with a woman's brain
I see no reason why this cannot be possible, if there is a clear distinction between male brains and female brains.
Assuming that transsexuals are real, they should be males whose brains match the feminine brain or a third mixed pattern.
This is easy enough to verify and I'm sure that someone did try that.
>>27126321
Why is it not genetic?
>>27126557
I am going to disregard the fact that you are misusing the word "choice" and that you are outright denying a possible explanation for no reason other than pushing your own political agenda.
>>27128138
Fuck it
Blox
>>27128773
Do you have any real reasoning behind this thinking, or is it merely your opinion? Because your assertion that people choose their sexuality through social conditioning sounds fucking ridiculous, and not at all scientific. How about some evidence?
Reminder that Ethics killed psychological research
>>27132322
>he believes gender is chosen through social conditioning but he can't believe sexual orientation is
>>27126321
Gay's erroneous claim. Admits he has literally no evidence to back up his claim. Asks others to make his point for him.
Yeah, you're retarded OP. And probably trying to pray the gay away.
>>27132856
*Makes
Sorry about that. OP is so retarded that he is making me retarded.
These are the kind of people we are dealing with. People whos idea of being gay is based on Ellen Degeneres and queer eye for the straight guy.
>>27132791
I don't get how people are unable to think of sexual orientation as a choice it's like saying the reason why you don't like pickles is because you don't want to like pickles. Studies have show it's probably a mix of genetics and socialization that determines who you orientation. But that socialization doesn't control it enough to be make huge changes it's like genetics puts it in an area and socialization cements it somewhere in that area.
>>27133001
At the end of the day you do choose who you have sex with. However, that doesn't necessarily mean you choose your sexual preference. Although, with that being said, you probably aren't too far off with the idea of it being a mixture of genetics and socialization.
Personally, I think it has much more to do with genetics.
>>27126321
Like many things in the world it's more than likely a combination of the two, not one or the other. One may be more or less genetically predisposed to homosexuality and variable based on upbringing and environment.
>>27132856
>>27132937
>Has no evidence or validity to his claim so he just uses ad hominem to make it seem like he has a point
>>27133108
You realize that's an ad hominem too right?
I'm not the one making baseless claims. You dumb shit.
>>27133124
Pointing out a logical fallacy isn't ad hominem.
>>27126321
If being gay is a choice, prove it. Choose to be gay. Go out and suck some dude's dick and tell me with a straight face that you enjoyed it.
You can choose to commit straight or gay sex acts, but you can't choose which of those acts you'll actually enjoy.
>>27133072
my guess is that in terms of Kinsey genetics put you in one of the boxes and socialization can move you over one box maybe two if strong enough. And this movement can be reverted like the tests done that show almost all women are somewhat attracted to other women but many women can't see themselves as lesbians. Also you're going to be able to make yourself gayer if you try the ability to follow others and emulate will make someone slightly gay able to act very gay.
>>27133168
I don't think you read this thread at all. I think you just posted without reading. You should read the thread. It answers your hypothetical :^)
>>27133141
You're still backtracking. You still haven't provided one shred of evidence.
Whether my previous response was an ad hominem attack or not is irrelevant.
>>27133217
Yes it is relevant. Because you've built your argument on an ad hominem. Your argument isn't logical. It's emotional. You're just pandering claims because your jimmies were rustled.
>>27133256
And you've built yours on no evidence. Again you are trying to deflect this onto me. It's not up to me to prove the argument. You're the one who made the claim there bud.
>>27132791
No I don't, you sniveling cunt. I never said or suggested that. Post some evidence or your position is of zero value.
>>27133305
>>27133306
Start posting evidence that it isn't. Because like you said "if not your position is of zero value" :^)
>>27127633
I don't know about you but I remember masturbating when I was pretty fucking young, preteen, even if I didn't know what I was doing at the time.
>>27133256
If anything, it sounds like you are emotionally invested in this. Are you just mad because I suggested that you're trying to pray the gay away? Does that hit a little too close to home?
>>27133367
More ad hominem attacks just reflect how your position has no validity.
>>27133347
That wasn't me actually. But it is true.
So what's your point? That means both of our arguments are baseless. You are a certified retard.
>>27126321
did you choose to be straight? hmmmm?
>>27133398
Just start sucking dicks bro, you'll like it. Trust me.
>>27133367
If I'm deflecting, then how are you not projecting? You are the one that brought up the point of me "praying the gay away". So tell me how it isn't you PROJECTING?
>>27133411
Or it just means this is a discussion and not a scientific debate. You do realize 4chan is a forum? Not a vested academic community, right.
>>27133426
You should try reading a thread. It's amazing how it answers stupid questions like these.
>>27133398
I'm not going to change your mind. You have obviously made up your mind already. Why would I waste my time trying to prove anything to you?
>>27133438
No, I'm gay (bi I guess) and I love it.
>>27133459
Under your own definition. That means that your argument is not valid.
Suck on my dick faggot.
fag here
i would do anything to have an ability to be attracted to woman
how on earth am i supposed to be a true bro if i have crush on him, i don't even play his games, i hate his music, but something in my mind pushes me towards him
this is an ilness, not a choice
>>27133507
Nah man. It's not an illness. It's just the way you're wired. You can still be bros with someone if your gay. You don't have to jump on every dick you see or every one of your friends'.
>>27133507
to make some light of the situation and provide an example of a guy trying to be straight but not being able to
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O14WuASvMV8
You just have to live with it man, find someone who isn't a fucking nerd playing videogames and shit. It's probably out of desperation anyway and a few isolated incidents of: "oh did he do that because he likes me?" You know the answer is no they don't like me, so go and find someone who does.
>>27133602
Well put, sir.
>>27126321
Faggotry isn't genetic, so did you chose to be a fag op?
>>27133630
Baseless claim.
*Why were you born a faggot OP?
>>27127755
Why do people who are fat choose a short unhealthy life through poor diet?
>>27133712
I saw this guy the other day. Morbidly obese, and that's not an exaggeration. He probably weighed ~350 . Standing outside smoking... I honestly don't get it.
I don't think I was born gay
I'm pretty sure it's because of how I grew up
or maybe something bad happened as a kid
I don't care though, I like being gay
I don't even like women as friends
Men are just better on a personal level
>>27133752
But have you had sex with a man?
Have you had sex with a woman?
>>27133766
I'm not attracted to women's bodies
Why would I want to even try sex with a woman?
I know for sure I love men's bodies
If I don't want to be with women on an emotional level, and I don't want to be with them physically, how could I be straight?
>>27133863
But did you choose to be attracted to men's bodies and not women's?
>>27133863
If it was a choice, couldn't you just choose to be attracted to women's bodies?
>>27133920
? No, I'm not.
What do you think I am arguing ?
I would be gay if that is what I wanted to do
>>27133945
didn't read close enough
>>27126686
Because Ellen. Not him by the by.She's the former queen of qeerness, turns out now it's really just queer.Arcanine likes lez personality, because we have an instinct to go with some SO and when you work your way down sometimes you take a wrong turn because you not being a people person caused you to work your way down in the first place. And she came out after her prime so str8 guys tend to still liker her still.
>>27133950
why aren't you? Anon
>tfw Ellen Page will never be a top-tier waifu again
Kill me.
>>27133916
>he doesn't understand social conditioning
