Why aren't you a male feminist?
l realized that it won't get me laid
>>26989802
Because I do not have a fedora and a trenchcoat.
>>26989802
>>26989820
This. It never got me laid unless I was using it as a pick-up line and they thought it was cheeky.
"Male feminist" is the modern equivalent of "gay best friend"
>>26989832
Well according to that like/view count, this is accepted Liberal doctrine.
>>26989802
being called something like that offends my dignity. if they changed their name to equal-rightists (duh) or something it would me much better
>>26989802
I don't want to end like this champ
>>26989838
Exactly
I realized soon enough that overdoing Alpha behavior and being an asshole is still a lot better (and more attractive) than overdoing Beta behavior and being a chode/pushover/white knight
Too bad I lack looks and social skills
>>26989802
Why do you post shitty bait threads?
Because its a movement against lower class males. If any man was part of something as powerful as a patriarchy, women would be lining around the block to fuck him. And all the feminists who claim to want equality know it.
As proof see pick for what women prefer when reading stories about the mate they want.
>>26989888
Absolutely vapid.
Either way I don't think anyone who actually cares about equal rights and has thought about it would call themselves a feminist right now. I'd probably be a feminist 20 years ago though.
>>26989888
That post is like straight from the horses mouth. Women CONSCIOUSLY cuckold men. They're fully aware of the evil shit they pull.
>>26989932
Lower class really means "not sexually attractive" let's all just be honest here. Feminism is anti-male-they-don't-find-physically-good-looking-enough.
>>26989965
>Lower class really means "not sexually attractive" let's all just be honest here. Feminism is anti-male-they-don't-find-physically-good-looking-enough.
It's both actually. They want good looking and rich. They're that greedy.
>>26989972
If they can get both in one package they'll take it but usually they get rich in one guy and good looking in another.
>>26989802
Feminism to feminists is an attempt (successful) to establish dominance over men.
But feminism to their wringing handlers is in order to create a divide between men and women, who normally would work together as a team as nature intended, in order to slow their birth rates.
If you're a self-described feminist, or if you're a self-described anti-feminist, you're a feminist. You're buying into the divide and conquer shill.
MRA's are fucking feminists, deal with it. You dumb cucks fell for their bullshit.
>>26989802
I may be socially inept but at least with girls I'm not a submissive cuck, often get remarks from them that I can take control pretty well.
Although I am into more submissive, shy girls so maybe it's just that anything not afraid of the dark is uber masculine to them.
>>26989802
Because I'm not a cuck
But i am original
>>26989802
>Because it's 2016
>Because feminist degeneracy has gone on for far too long.
>>26990100
i bet as you were typing that you thought itmade sense.
I fight for my rights, they fight for theirs.
sounds fair?lmao jk I don't fight at all
>>26989802
>Why aren't you a male feminist?
Because women don't want men to be feminists. Feminism is just another shit test.
Oh, Anon love two big fat titties put together. Boobies! Gotta make pretty woman think I progressive noodle-thinker. Then she will let me touch her boob. Yes, women good! Men, bad! Yes, one day girl be able to vote in big election. Put in vote for president. Gonna get here soon if we keep fighting! Gotta burn down Pentagon. Oh, baby I got a college degree in big smart books. Anon is a edullectual. Give me your heart, pretty boobie lady! I want to honk honk! Baby need a honk!
>>26990398Did someone say HONK?
>>26990398
I'm not sure whether I should be buttflustered or amusedI'm leaning towards amused
>>26989802
Theoretically I am
It's just that for as long as I have been politically conscious feminism has been a whiny echo-chamber war on masculinity that has produced no results outside of making more people dislike feminism and women. It's a movement that has become excessively decentralized and saturated with hypocrisy and does nothing but whine about problems and promote superficial solutions. I will happily call myself a feminist once the movement picks up its act
>>26989802
I'm not a feminist because every single feminist I've had the misfortune to interact is really obnoxious and unable to hold conversation without making some rediculous reference to how all men are rapists and the patriarchy is raping all women, and if you are a man you automatically are anti women. Also they assume because I'm white I have it easy. They are fucking annoying and I wish they didn't exist.
>>26990398
best thing I've read all week
>>26989802
Because I hate women
Eve. The first whore
>>26989874
>they
There's no "they", it's not like feminism is one big happy family that has regular meetings where they decide what to call themselves. There's dozens of rival schools of thought, some of which HATE each-other and refuse to even acknowledge the others as 'real' feminists. Some DO in fact call themselves equalists or equal-rightists. "Feminism" is just a vague label applies to a certain discourse, not an ideology proper. The word has no real meaning without a qualification such as "I am an equal-rights feminist" or "I am a post-feminist" or "I am a liberal feminist" or whatever.
>>26989802
Because I'm not some leg-humping pansy.
Funny to note that male feminists are the most sexist people out there, especially against women who are stalwart in saying they aren't feminists.
>>26989802
Because I don't care about other people's rights beyond the fact that they affect my personal rights in a domino effect.
>>26989802
I am.
Ask me anything I guess.
I hope this comment is original enough
Because I'm not attractive or in public office where I need to are what other people think thus there's no point. That said I don't hate women or think they're inferior to men because I haven't achieved true robot level bitterness yet
A lot of male feminists are really just betas, hoping that said label will get them laid. It, of course, does not work, since attraction is an instinct and not political. Women will find manly men attractive, regardless of political beliefs. Few guys actually believe in it sincerely, though, and you can usually tell. Also, generally speaking there aren't enough feminists who actually believe in equality and want both equal rights AND equal obligations and duties for men and women, and hold this belief without being complete wusses. Tumblr-feminism has taken over, to the detriment of all.
Feminism has become "wussified", and I say this as a male feminist. Same with the whole Left, actually. And before you say that it was always a wussy movement, read up on the history of the struggle. People suffered imprisonment and death, fought in wars and assassinated kings. Disagree with the ideology if you will, but don't call the old guard wusses for they where anything but. But now it's all feelings and correct pronouns. No one hungers for blood anymore. No one even does proper social science anymore. Everyone is just triggered and oppressed... do you fuckers think Lucia Sanchez Saornil ever in her goddamn life uttered the words "triggered"?? No, she was to busy actually doing stuff in the real world.
Because I'm not a fucking cuck?
>>26990972
There's a reason why it's called The Regressive Left these days...
>>26990922
I don't know if you're trying to bait me or not, but I am one too. Feels good man.
All the angry self-loathing "muh alpha male, muh biological essentialism, muh evpsych" teens who pitch and moan about "nu-males" and faggots and other such stuff and claim that such isruining the country and or cold "moral fiber"/"Christian decency" etc. should really get with the times and realize that their cleaning to a moral code that was left behind 20 to 30 years ago.
it's just so painfully obvious to see how strong leaders to influence by their parents' ideology. They don't know how to do anything else but simply parrot what they were told by ignorant, out-of-touch boomers.
>>26990972
>>26991007
The right with its MGTOW/MRA nonsense is just as bad and reactionary.
pic related
>>26990922
>their cleaning
They're clinging*
>on the train with loads of girls present
>go to the bathroom after half an hour
>no panty liners or pads in the garbage
Why is this allowed?
>>26991045
I'm not trolling. It's basically just equality. Also a lot of negative attitudes towards men and unrealistic standards are also a direct bi-product of toxic over-masculinity. Feminism is just as good for men as it is for women.
>>26991060
>implying anyone knows about MGOTW outside of the internet
>>26991060
I don't doubt it. But I'd sooner believe someone from the MRM because they have legit claims. Men and equal legal rights, parental rights, circumcision...those are still problems in the UK and US that no one seems to care about.
I technically would see myself as a MGTOW, but I admit that I am weary of association because all of the butthurt old guys.
>>26991111
Read what I said just three lines above. Legal rights, parental rights, circumcision. Here's another one for you: men's shelters. Oh, and He for She. Not She for He. Or even She for She to prove that women are capable of helping themselves.
>>26991111
We are in agreement.
also my posts are full of typos because I'm using speech to text. hopefully it's still coherent.
>>26991142
>circumcision
>feminism
Are you saying that feminists support circumcision? Because that's a silly thing to say. It's entirely a cultural problem that's supported/protested by both men & women.
>>26991117
Well people know much about PUAs and people like Roosh V, and MGTOW is their fat retarded cousin.
>>26991186
That has 0 attention or traction because feminists complain about patriarchy, female oppression (local, not international), and sexual violence despite rape plummeting over the past few decades.
And domestic violence, which is told to be a one-way street. All forms of it shown are men assaulting women, never the other way around.
And yes, I do say that some feminists support circumcision. I've been told personally that I'd be more attractive if I was cut, and plenty of feminist comedians make jokes about uncut dicks and how they're seen as ugly.
>>26991111
>toxic over-masculinity
>>26991234
90% of this board is complaining about being bullied by Chad. That's what it is.
>>26991219
Yeah those weren't feminists.
This is feminism.
http://everydayfeminism.com/2015/06/circumcision-is-feminist-issue/
http://www.hystericalfeminisms.com/male-circumcision-is-a-feminist-issue-too/
http://feministing.com/2010/06/04/feminism-and-male-circumcision/
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskFeminists/comments/16oqw2/what_is_the_feminist_stance_on_male_circumcision/
>>26991333
"Those weren't feminists"
The one thing I always hear when I bring up the most vocal feminists. The most successful feminists.
Erin Pizzey?
Christina Sommers?
Those are two feminist figures I respect, but they might as well be seen a exiles...with the former having actively been threatened with violence to the point she left the UK for quit a while.
That said, kudos on finding some feminists who are against it. That doesn't make me think that feminism as a whole isn't complete shit, but it's nice to see that some have the capacity to think outside claiming constant sexism and my soggy knees.
>>26991333
>90% of this board is complaining about being bullied by Chad. That's what it is.
That's the halo effect, if a non-Chad bullies Chad everyone goes apeshit
>>26991407
>Erin Pizzey?
>Christina Sommers?
Neither of which support circumcision.
The former did great work for women's shelters, but her later questionable research about domestic violence is exactly that.
The latter is as far from being a feminist as possible. She's a right-wing libertarian first and anything else second. The only reason why she became popular is because she called herself the "Factual Feminist" (unlike all those other feminists who use hysterical screaming and don't tip their fedoras at all) and started a series of vlogs that supported Gamer Gate and told them exactly what they wanted to hear.
The most successful and popular Feminists are people like Gloria Steinem, Maya Angelou, Mala Yousafzai, etc.
>>26991567
Anita Sarkeesian, Brianna Wu...they call themselves feminists.
Christina Sommers has a history in feminism before she was more or less pushed out of the circle.
This further cements my issue with feminism; they pick and choose. You'll have a lot of parties claim that they are X, especially if they are vocal and widely known, but if they don't fit, they're really not X. They're Y. So feminism is either the most heroic thing or full of hypocrites who factcheck only each other.
>>26990448
>only one black eye
Everyone knows you have to tell women 3 times.
>>26989802
Why not being a tranny feminist and make them butthurt instead?
>>26991567
Plus I forgot to mention that circumcision is the only thing feminists bring up. If you have examples of feminists aiming for legal equality, men's shelters, male abuse victims or that fathers are not just wanted, but required for proper child raising that would be awesome.
>>26989802
I suppose the fact that many women feminists don't actually think men should be allowed to call themselves feminists would be lost on him I suppose.
>In b4 they are radical feminists
When moderate x doesn't openly fight against radical x they may as well all be radicals.
>patriarchy
This is why "genderorder/gendersystem" or "gender power structure" is IMO a better term. It can contain the feminist claims of a patriachy that favours men over women, in some instances at least, but also include the downsides of this male privilege and the various inequalities men face: from being expected to pay on dates to being expected to die in wars, not being considered a fit parent, etc. Another important factor that "patriarchy" fails to capture but that can be better understood though a "gender power structure"-view is also how females often perpetuate these gender structures. Everything from how they raise their sons, to how they judge each-other to how they select their mates actually serves to strenghten the very system feminists supposedly criticise. Such actions from women are often ignored in contemporary feminism, despite being a key feature of Emma Goldman's critique of religious patriarchy.
>>26989802
This is what happens when you let women vote. They just vote for the cutest candidate.
>>26991635
See >>26990849
There's no such thing as a singular feminism. Just contending schools of thought within a losely defined discourse. None is anymore "true" feminism than any other, but some can be argued to be more in touch with the historical aims of the feminist movement, or be more humane/egalitarian, or simply more correct. That is the REAL debate; not whom deserves the glorious label of "True" feminism.
>>26991745
That's also why I don't bother with feminism. I'm told that if I want equal rights for men, I'm somehow a feminist. I'm told that if I'm against rape, I'm a feminist.
Big Red complains about The Patriarchy and she's a feminist.
Anita Sarkeesian complains about rampant sexism on the internet and she's a feminist.
Obama talks about the myth of the wage gap as if it's a real problem and he's a feminist.
If Feminism really has transformed from some very strict ideals to nebulous, squishy terms and only the most vague of requirements, then that's all the more reason for me to avoid labeling myself as something more toxic. Look at social media and life outside of the internet: sexism, patriarchy, rape culture, wage gap, child support. That is all what is complained about by feminists. You're free to tell me that they aren't feminists and are just con artists because I believe that. But they're just as much a feminist as you.
Aside from those people, that supposed vocal minority, we have the SCUM Manifesto, the "I drink male tears" meme, feminists who have laughed when people bring up the RISING male suicide rates, plenty of feminists who call for mass male castration, and the belief that men are obsolete.
Are those just Tumblr feminists? Misandry? Maybe. But that's feminism too. That's the vocal feminism. That's the accepted feminism.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XX6ATwQv7Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSB01bEdpgs
Tell me why I should even attempt to call myself a feminist when most feminists don't like men, don't try to support men, and insist that the only way they can help themselves is by helping women.
>>26991858
>most feminists don't like men, don't try to support men, and insist that the only way they can help themselves is by helping women
several citations needed.
Unless you just enjoy setting fire to those spooky feminists straw-women.
But i am.
Men who arent feminist to some degree are part of the problem.
Women who arent feminist i could never respect. Literally the lowest of the low.
>>26991959
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkjW9PZBRfk
Emma Watson brings up male suicide rates...only to say that men can help women by becoming part of that "equality" thing that is called He for She. Which means a man helping a woman.
http://www.avoiceformen.com/men/mens-issues/is-homelessness-a-mens-issue/
Never once have I seen a feminist claim that we need more men's shelters.
https://toysoldier.wordpress.com/2014/12/03/salvation-army-shelter-turns-down-family-because-of-sons-age/
Boys get fucked as soon as they get old enough when it comes to shelter. Before puberty, when they're seen as children and not men? Protected. Evidently at 15? He's a man, so it doesn't matter if he's still a child, he doesn't get protection purely because of his dick.
I can't give a citation on men's shelters because there are hardly fucking any of them to bring up. If you can give me a dedicated network that helps men, please share it.
There are also the two videos I gave in my previous post.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/09/02/statutory-rape-victim-child-support/14953965/
And where is the feminist support for this guy? Not only was he the victim of statutory rape, but he's forced to pay child support.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3010327/I-went-without-electricity-days-didn-t-eat-Fury-man-forced-pay-child-support-13-years-girl-s-never-met-despite-DNA-test-proving-s-not-his.html
And what about this? It's unholy injustice but...I've seen no support. I've heard no vocal feminist say that this needs to be addressed.
Women get paid the same as men, but I've not heard a single vocal, well-known feminist say that we need less child support cases. Because that would be saying that they don't want their privilege anymore, and no one would say that when there's a system build up to protect and provide for women.
>>26991959
By the way, I'm still waiting to be told on how feminists aren't complete shit. Please cite your own sources as to how they have helped men, and how they are for equality and not only issues for women...whether or not those issues exist.
>>26991858
>That's also why I don't bother with feminism
Well, technically you CAN'T. It's like saying you're a socialist or that you believe in god. I mean, cool and all, but what do you mean? Those things have no inherent meaning, what do you mean by them? "Socialist" can mean everything from Obama to Stalin depending on how you view it.
But abandoning a movement because it has become invaded by toxic people, by "con artists" as you put it, is to let those same people win. For example: Stalin did some fucked up things, to say the least, but that does not mean that maybe wages need to be higher. Lenin was wrong about everything basically, but that does not mean that stronger unions are a bad idea. Or to take the other side of the polical spectrum: Glenn Beck is insane, but maybe the libertarian point about less war and less taxes isn't so bad. And so on. The IDEALS, the GOALS must still matter and must be what we strive for DESPITE the labels, the words, being used by idiots who have completely different goals and ideals.
>That's the accepted feminism.
Because we have let is become accepted. That blame is on all of us. We should've resisted this crap harder, and we still need to keep resisting it. Not with memes about how women are the Devil or how caring about equality makes you a cuck, but with AN ALTERNATIVE. A better kind of feminism.
>Tell me why I should even attempt to call myself a feminist...
Because you must be an alternative to exactly that kind of crap. Because when they say "this is feminism" you must say "No". Tumblr cannot win this, they just can't... Too many people have bled, suffered and died for the lofty goals of equality, dignity and humanity for us to let a bunch of whiny CHILDREN take it all from us and drench it in shit.
>>26992104
Then that's something people like YOU need to do. The feminists who aren't shit. If there are enough that exist. It's obvious to all that the term has gone off the rails and that it's getting more and more extreme, but it's in no way my responsibility as someone who doesn't like feminism as it is. That's why I'm anti-feminist. If you wanna reform it, please do.
When it comes to accepted feminism...yes. It is the blame of all feminists for accepting the extreme views and letting it take root until it's become the weed that it is today in sensibility and logic. I have no clue what "a better kind of feminism" is because if you're wanting there to be a new ideal, then it's not feminism, now is it? Call yourself a Human Rights Activist, at least that way you won't have to do these god awful mental gymnastics of "I'm still a feminist, but not those, or those, or these".
I'm not a feminist, and I never will be. I call myself an Egalitarian, even though I know full well women will ALWAYS have more value in society and sex than men. Even though I know Egalitarianism is an impossible piped dream. It just so happens that shit is so fucked up that I'd sooner gladly call myself part of the MRM than a feminist because men get shafted, shat on, and laughed at. And men have never held the value that women have. Not a single once. You're free to prove me wrong and show me a society that women were the ones who died prematurely and that women were the bulk of the working class while men stuck with safe jobs or even had leisure time.
The ultimate sign that I'm not a feminist? I'm more than happy to be proven wrong, and to have a wider frame of reference rather than stick with a narrative until that ship sinks and becomes a barnacle reef.
>>26992084
This is a problem indeed, and IMO based on a faulty analysis that tries to understand the female perspective only. This is not only unfair, but impossible: gender as a social phenomenon can only be understood as WHOLE, which would include the complex interactions and contradictions of male-female-other. Academic feminists I have spoked about this with admit it; you CANNOT fully understand the female situation without understanding the male.
"Privilige" is not so simple, for every advantage men have has a disadvantage also. These things form a pattern, they reflect each-other. Example: women have a harder time getting full-time employment while men have difficulties getting parental rights in a divorce - seemingly these are two distinct problems but BOTH are in fact there due to the way society views women as better and more fitting parents. Hence they get a disadvantage in the job-market (good mothers shouldn't work full-time!) but an advantage in divorce courts (a good mother is all a child needs!), with the reverse for men. Men and women bickering against each-other is due to them missing that there is a common enemy.
Also, due in part to the feminist party Feminist Initiative, Stockholm has just seen the opening of the very first rape centre for men only:
http://www.thelocal.se/20151015/sweden-opens-worlds-first-male-rape-centre
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3277006/Sweden-opened-world-s-rape-centre-male-sexual-violence-victims.html
>>26992217
Of course you can't understand it, but Gender Studies; something being taught more and more in the US, covers only women. ONLY. In Canada you have that one political fuck who made either half or all of his cabinet women because they have tits, not because they're any good.
You have women being hired on a 2 to 1 basis compared to men in STEM fields and yet those numbers are dropping because we have choice, but feminists are saying there's rampant sexism going on.
Privilege is something feminists are also getting more and more vocal with, but none of them seem to understand that while women earn less, they have just as much spending power as men. And there's the whole dating situation in which men are often made fun of or seen as undesirable if they don't pay for dates. And you have almost all commercials with gift giving revolving around the man giving his woman something.
I'm glad Stockholm has done that, though I feel like it'll be a long time before that sentiment spreads to anywhere near the UK, nevermind the cesspit that is the US here. It'll take a long time before people here even accept that men can be victims of domestic violence, and even longer before we see a single commercial showing a male victim...regardless of how much it'll be ridiculed and made fun of.
>>26992200
>something people like YOU need to do
I am doing my part. I join feminist groups and argue my point. I was recently at the yearly meeting of the swedish feminist party, Feminist Initiative, and made several suggestions to changes in policy, most of which where accepted. One was for example changing the language of the political platform to be explicitly inclusive of both men and women, and not just women. Of course, there where some of 'those' feminists present that threw a fit at the mere idea, but the majority supported it. Plenty of women also stood up for men's issues and rights without any guy coaxing them. Nice to see actually.
>in no way my responsibility
So you want me to fix it for you, then join in when it's all better? No, my friend, it IS you responsibility as a god-damn human being. Believe in equality? Against rape? Get in here and be a voice of reason! Contribute to changing things from the inside. Because when you're an "anti-feminist" you're not just pissing all over those idiots you described. You're pissing all over me and every rational feminist as well. And believe me, brother, pissing on the idiots will do nothing since they're just too many - but pissing on us rational ones might make us give up. It's hard enough battling these harpies that give you death-stares for just daring to be male without having bros on the outside take the piss god-damn always.
>"a better kind of feminism"
But like I said in previous posts: 1) there's nothing new about it, it's actually just oldschool, pre-tumblr feminism 2) even calling yourself a Human Rights Activist or whatever would just make you one of a few dozen different schools of thought within the feminist discourse. Look that word up, bro: discourse. That's what "feminism" is, not an ideology. "Marxist feminism" or "liberal feminism" are ideologies. 3) I don't want to give up the label "feminist" to idiots, I want to take it back
>>26992200
>not a feminist
>an Egalitarian
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equality_feminism
See, that's the problem. As long as you insist that "tumblr feminism = feminism" nothing I say will make sense. But in reality, "feminism = vague label for loosely affiliated and sometimes conflicting schools of thought". Your opinions fit well within some such schools.
The problem isn't feminism because it can't be; feminism is not a single THING, it's a mixed bag of MANY things, some of which you actually agree with. The problem must be identified as some of those things - and looitdat, both you and I, an anti-feminist and an ardent feminist, point to the EXACT same things and say "that's the problem, right there!". Does that not say something? Mean something?
>>26989907
Learn what bait is before posting.
>>26992388
I'm glad you're doing your bit. It means you have a brain, among other things.
I am being a voice of reason but I don't see it a responsibility. I don't care what happens to feminism, as long as it stops existing as it does today, because it's bullshit.
I also won't stop saying I'm anti-feminism. I see what you mean but maybe that's a sign that you need a new title. Feminism does not, in any way, donate to the idea that it's for both rights for men and women. That's not what the name says. But it sure fits with the "toxic masculinity" narrative.
I've the one issue with discourse; a lot of feminists don't want discourse. Now this doesn't mean you because I think we're both being at least somewhat civil for being on 4chan, but for the vocal majority that more or less dictates what feminism stands for...discourse isn't wanted. In universities, Milo "Black Cocks Matter" Yiannopoulos has been threatened, interrupted, and openly bashed for having his own opinions. Discourse interrupts The Narrative.
>>26992467
That...seems silly. I don't believe that feminism should have so many flavors, especially something like "equality feminism". That tells me that normal feminism isn't about equality. Because if it was, there wouldn't be a subsect that directly had "equality" in it.
It does say something, and it does mean something, but I do not believe that the title of feminism is the answer. It's time to put that dog down and decide on something else. To me, that means the MRM, because they're bringing up issues men have that feminists have rarely, if EVER, brought up.
Is the MRM the answer? Ultimately? I don't know, the entire movement is laughed at and not taken all that seriously, and there have been no changes, so I doubt it, but it's at least a new name, and it addresses things people have ignored.
I'd rather stick with something like an HRM. Human Rights Movement,led by both men and women. But as I said before,I'm an Egalitarian, and I know it's impossible.
>>26992104
>Because we have let is become accepted. That blame is on all of us.
Placing blame on all males doesn't work as well. It's the women that are the ones that bitch all the time and not think logical like guys. You're just as worst because you don't place responsibility or consequences upon women.
You are a male feminist if you arent voting for trump and you should be banned
>>26992286
>Gender Studies
Never understood why. The ideas I voiced I've gotten from female profs, feminist ones, who essentially complained about their own field's limitations. Maybe that's beacause they where proper sociologist and not 'gender studies' majors? This is a methodological problem, and not just one of justice - you literally CANNOT understand a problem in a scientific way without understanding it fully. You'd be discarding relevant data.
>spending
That's my point. "Privilege" is too simplified. You have different positions for men and women, different attitudes towards them, and they all have pros and cons. Except when you look closely it turns out even the pros and kinda fucked up and unfair.
And men are actively kept from being feminists BY WOMEN. By being mocked or looked down on for acting the way feminists want, or by not getting dated. Many feminists, including my own gf, will somewhat recultantly admit that they just aren't attracted to the betas who call themselves feminist and act all soft and feminine. DESPITE saying that "toxic masculinity" is such a huge problem and that we need feminine values, they'll activley chose the men who embody such nasculinity. Personally, I feel that it's those gender norms and gender power stuctures that are responsible for this - in a truly equal society we wouldn't have any of this shit.
Now I'm a male feminist, but I still have a gf and have women hit on me. Yes even in feminist groups and female dominated-groups (why am I the only man in the local animal rights-group who doesn't look like a twink faggot?). Wanna know my secret? I'm a complete hypocrite. I sprout feminist ideology, but I make sexist jokes, objectify women, hit on other women in front of my gf, and hell I've even smacked a bitch or two. I use women, and I manipulate them. I'm an asshole, plain and simple. I know plently of nice guy feminists, and I feel sorry for them I really do because they just don't get how contradictory women are.
>>26989802
Anyone who can't see that women are physically and mentally inferior is delusional. They have no taste. They can't do anything worth a shit.
Males accomplish miracles and the roasties don't get it.
I shudder every time a vibrant male enterprise gets contaminated by roasties and males debase themselves and the quality of their project by pretending the special needs retards i.e. women are 'equal.' They're nowhere fucking close. Not in the same league. Not even in the same fucking sport.
Having to live in a female-domimated society where everything is cut down and stunted to female 'taste' will be a living hell. We might as well not even call ourselves human.
>inb4 manbaby bitter virgin googoo gahgah memes
Women are incapable of introspection, reason, and aesthetic sensibility. Worse than that, they don't even know they don't know, because they lack the equipment.
Feminism is dumb. The "everyone is le equal" meme is objectively false. Males are stronger and smarter. Females have to parasitize male success and males defile every discipline by using it as whore payment.
Equality is impossible and it would be hell for males if it were "achieved" because our existence is so much richer with possibility and curiosity than womens'. We invented, competed, and perfected. They lie back and get fucked.
If women could have, they would have by now.
>>26992678
And that's the ultimate issue with gender studies...and the reason why it'll never become anything but a joke. Because to include men, how they're disposable, their issues, and how they're not NEARLY as valuable as women...that disrupts The Narrative. That makes it so men can be victims too. That makes it that men can be just as fucked up, if not more so.
As for privileges...again, it's all about The Narrative. Men make more than women for the exact same job. Men are more violent in relationships. Men get to be rapists and sexually assault people.
Women get to be...universally wanted, protected, have been able to get everything a man wants without doing anything for it, can ultimately decide to opt out of parenthood at any stage, and are valued in society and told that it's ok if they're completely useless because men are supposed to worship goddesses? It's bullshit, and it's mindboggling that people don't see through it; it's a holy topic no one is allowed to even touch.
I'm glad you have luck with women. I've had a few relationships, myself, and currently have been talking with a chick on the daily but...standard long distance thing so insert memes there.
But there is an issue with male feminists being there for the pussy. It's the exact same thing as white knighting, and it's the exact same thing as being The Nice Guy.
>>26992750
It is objectively false. All of the links I gave earlier show that feminists either don't care about issues or are actively against it.
Equality really is impossible because men will never be as valuable as women. Men will never be seen as gods that are attractive no matter what job they have or what body type they have. Men will never ever EVER be valued as a woman will be. But I sure wish it could happen one day. Because it'll help so many of us bots from killing ourselves or believing that they don't have a reason to live because unless we fit a very specific mold, we're useless.
>>26992594
>don't care what happens to feminism
It will not stop existing as it does today without pressure from within. It will not even wither and die without inside pressure. Without inside pressure, you just get more tumblr-bullshit. Why? Because those kinds of feminists isolate themselves. They don't seek outside confrontation, but hugboxes and echo-chambers, and so NEVER get called out of their bs. Unless you show up inside their little hugbox, that is.
>you need a new title
I wish I could get one. But like I keep saying, there is no "feminism". No big group meeting where we all decide what to call ourselves. But I do not identify myself as a "feminist" for this very reason. I just acknowledge that by focusing on gender rights, I am a part of the blanket term "feminism". So how do I identify myself? I have, within the broad discourse of feminism, selected a school of thought which I feel reflects both a desire for true equality and also a scientific approach to social analysis, and it is through by THAT school of thought that I identify myself.
>discourse
Of course, almost every group does that, feminist or not. Tries to pretend like there isn't a discource, but just the One Truth, which is always what they think, while everything else is heresy. Take the Westboro Baptist Church; they're basically just this one family yet they present themselves are the only true Christians while all else is falsehood. It's been this way forever. Only difference is that nowadays everyone cares about fee-fees to much to tell people that "your opinion doesn't matter, it's a freakin' discourse now deal with it!".
>many flavors
That's the deal with everything humans have. Religion, politics, music, you name it. We divide, form our own little cults with our own fave flavour, and hate on everyone else.
>normal feminism
Doesn't exist. Pay attention.
>>26992594
>It's time to put that dog down
Not how discourses work. Just isn't. I mean I agree to some degree; as someone who believes in democratic socialism I'd rather call it "humanism" or something and not be associated with literally Stalin and Hitler, but you don't really get to chose what discourses (or even specific political movement) are called: the name kinda just happens, it becomes a part of our language. Silly to abandon something one believes in over the name. I'd rather vindicate the thing.
>>26992669
By "we" I meant all humans who care about equality, actually. Rational feminists especially. Certainly not just men.
>>26992863
Then let it exist as a joke full of nothing but Tumblrinas. But don't let it be something so integrated into the mainstream. I don't care if they keep their hugbox, but I care that they can affect politics so brutally, and leech off of people like you who'll donate to feminists...only to later learn that they have a lot of anti-male sentiments.
Well we've shown that we share a lot of similar values, but it's the title you're hung up on. So don't call yourself a feminist. Call yourself an MRA, or a HRA. Look at what you're into and...just try to describe yourself without including "feminist". I know you can do that. It isn't impossible.
It's funny that you bring up religion, and that there are countless forms of Christians out there...like there are countless forms of feminists, eh? Though it's weird that feminism is told that it's not a religion when you just directly compared it. I know I'm targeting too much on that, but it's uncanny.
>>26992910
If you'd rather vindicate it, then do it. I won't, because I don't have a horse in that race. I don't care if feminism becomes only more of a meme than it already is, I'd rather go with something else.
>>26992833
>feminists
Look you seem like a reasonable fella, but you keep using that word. Please understand: there is no such thing as a "feminist". There are rival schools of thought, which disagree. Strongly even. By selecting one of them, the most fucked up one actually, and calling them "feminists" you are actually supporting "The Narrative" you speak of. You are supporting THEIR belief that they are the only real feminists while everything else is a heresy; either not real feminism or a deviation. Call them misandrists, postmodern feminists, 3rd wave feminists, tumblr-feminists, victim-feminists, etc. Whatever. Just don't give them the very thing they want: the be identified as the norm of feminism.
>>26993002
If they aren't the norm, why are they the most widely accepted and spread versions? Anita Sarkeesian spoke at the fucking UN and she's quite literally Jack Thompson with tits and a vag.
She spoke at the UN, dude. And she calls herself a feminist. Tell me how that is not the norm already, feminists that complain and whine about The Patriarchy and "rampant sexism".
>>26989802
>implying im not
niceb8m8
>>26993062
the UN is a good example of "you can do what you want you dont have to listen to us unless you threaten the Unite- i mean global interests"
>>26992972
>but I care that they can affect politics so brutally
Not if one participates and stops them. If they get to decide what feminism is, then feminism will be what they say it is - simple enough. If they are 90% of all groups, then all groups will propagate their agenda.
Join the groups. Come in there, not with redpill bs and memes, but genuine concerns, methodological criticism and a genuine belief in equality, and you know what you'll find? Tons of women who feel the same way but have been scared to say anything because the sjw/tumblrina lot can get so aggressive and even bully. Tons of women who will back you up.
>it's the title you're hung up on
Nope. "Feminism" is not a title, it is a broad discourse of which we are both a part as people concerned with issues of gender and equality. That's just the way discourses work, you don't have to like it. I acknowledge this, and identify with my specific school of thought and not the discourse as a whole. You reject this and confuse the label of the whole discourse for the specific "school" that is tumblr-feminism.
>try to describe yourself without including "feminist"
This is what I do. I call myself a humanist. A democratic socialist. A human rights activist. I just acknowledge that 1) this technically makes me a part of the feminist discourse whether I like it or not and 2) my beliefs fit will with certain socialist strains of feminism, so why not use that label also when the proverbial shoe fits? I never call myself just a "feminist" much like I never call myself just a "socialist" - too easy to misunderstand what the heck I mean.
>I don't have a horse in that race
Except, by virtue of believing in equality, you do. Also, what about the impact on policy you mentioned, doesn't that affect you? Your rights? Of course it does. If you let tumbrlinas decide, it will impact EVERYONE and NOT in a good way. Their delusions must not be married to real political power.
>>26989802
I am a male feminist.
>>26993062
They are the norm. They have become the norm. Resiting this norm is what I'm talking about. They're the norm, but not yet the only game in town. They want to be, though. There's nothing they'd like more than if the word "feminism" stopped refering to a broad range of ideologies, but only to them. And that's already happening and it's YOU, their supposed enemies, that are partly enabling this.
Everyone who hates Sarkeesian shouldn't threathen her or talk shit about "feminism", that just strenghtens them. Instead, criticise them using the perspective of a rival school. Call them out on marginalising other feminist schools of thought. Discredit their claim to represent all women, or even all feminists. Strike where it goddamn hurts, don't help them along!
>>26989802
Because feminists are mean to me.
>>26993162
My point remains valid that she managed to speak there, along with Zoe Quinn and Emma Watson. All under the guise of feminism.
>>26993177
Again, I don't care what feminism is and isn't. I don't want it around, and I don't believe it should stay around because it's gone rotten.
Feminism isn't a title but "feminist" is. You know this. But it's to the point that you need something like "equity feminist" to describe certain feminists. When again, you should just drop the title and your attachment. No one calls themselves a Suffragist, despite that predating feminism in earnest.
Then consider yourself a humanist. A HRA. The issue I have is that people insist that I'm a feminist whether I like it or not. I don't see a point in that. I don't see why anyone would purposely demand that I'm part of their group just because I'm kinda similar.
And no, I don't. I don't care about feminism because it's outdated at best and malignant at worst. And that's EXACTLY what I said before; let them have their hugbox, but I do not want them having political power. That power is tied to the name feminism, not on their own merits. I can see why you'd want that name and power back, but it has only gotten worse with time.
>>26993240
I haven't enabled anything because I don't have a YouTube channel nor am I doing to a group saying that they're doing right or wrong.
If you're trying to shift the blame to me, it won't work because I was never part of the group that LET itself decay. I discredit their claims and bring citations to the table, but that's not because I want feminism to be pure and clean like it supposedly was before. That's why I actively share MRM videos and other people bringing up how feminists can be hypocrites and bring up things like rape culture while ignoring reality. I'm doing something, it's just not what you want.
>>26993240
And thanks for talking to me at length for this. I like talking to people with different views, especially because not once did you claim that I was a misogynist, insecure, or simply projecting. I've been told that a whole lot by feminists who insist that I'm sexist or just wrong about history and society.
It's always good to talk to people with differing views, and if more feminists did that, they wouldn't have such a shit bad rap to them. Maybe if they were more open, they might not have let the Tumblrinas and con artists take their title and run it into the mud.
I gotta snooze. Stay cool, brobot.
>>26993359
>it's just not what you want
No it's just not what's gonna work. You attack half the problem and leave the other half un-attacked. Just like they do, you commit these faults: singular focus on one gender, cherry-picking of data to suit your own beliefs, methodological issues with only dealing with half the problem, ideological spintering and insistence that your beliefs are true while all else is heresy that must be destroyed.
What we need is a UNIFIED approach to gender issues; both analytically and in terms of activism. The male-female antagonism must be acknowledged as part of the same dialectical unity. The various privileges and lack thereof the genders get must be acknowledged as merely the same problems taking different forms.
You tell me that I need to be a humanist or a HRA, but then side with the MRA-movement. Why aren't you a humanist? Why aren't you looking at the whole picture, including women's rights, instead of just trying to 'disprove feminism'?
>>26989888
I'd feel some sympathy for that guy if this wasn't the last thing he posted
>>26989844
source on the vid?
>>26994415
I hate this bs. Strong, proud, brave = male ; soft, weak, cowardly = feminine. Bullshit. Virtues are virtues, all genders have a duty to strive for them; vices are vices and the same goes for them in reverse.
The problem with the various movements that try to bring traditional masculinity back isn't that they're wrong in that our present society lacks those virtues most often associted with masculinity. It's that A) they insist on keeping the male association, thus essentially excusing half the population from a duty that should fall on all people, and B) mix their message with specific politics: suddenly voting for one candidate, one party or one particular bill makes one a "cuck" or whatever.
A traditionally masculine man should stand up for his beliefs, no? Not follow the herd, but make up his own mind, and stand by his convictions no matter what? Well why would that not apply for a man who is a socialist, or even a feminist, of some variety? Why is Bernie less "manly" than The Donald for standing up for his democratic socialist beliefs, going against the grain and succeeding IN SPITE of how toxic the very word "socialism" is in America? Is that not brave? Has he not faced his criticism with stoic defiance, has he not shown rage against his opponents (though in a more classy manner, of course)?
>>26990061
>tfw only a sexual needs bf
sometimes i envy her emotional needs bf since they get to cuddle longer than I can with her after making her cum 5 times straight
>>26995415
>tfw this meme won't die and infects a thread that actually had a decent and civil debate between feminists and anti-feminist
>>26989888
You quite possibly wrote both of those posts. Anyone thinking this is real is fucking retarded.
>>26989802
Because womens rights were a mistake.
>>26989802
I am. Women are by far superior to men. Especially the man children in this site
>>26989802
desu I'm a male feminists but not for the reasons you'd endorse.
I just have a massive voyeur fetish and I want to see sluts getting banged openly in the streets, maybe even make out with one while tasting the left over of semen in her mouth from the guy before me.
Feminism, and leftism in general, seems to be pushing towards this direction, and for that reason I support them.
>>26995517
oh fuck off, debating left crap in a post social-marxist society is just a dead end that will never go anywhere
the only way to move forward is to take your guns and shoot anyone who disagrees with you at this point; there are too many betacucks to win in civil debate
I am though. It seems ridiculous that any sane, rational person with the slightest bit of empathy wouldn't be. Why shouldn't men and women be on an equal playing field? Why do you hate women? Do they scare you?
>>26989802
like i'm all for equity feminism and shit, but i listened to this guy's justification for appointing 50% female cabinet members and he just smugly looks into the camera and goes "because it's 2015" as if that means anything at all.
not a single word about how it makes sense because 50% of the population is female and they should be equally represented in positions of responsibility. no, just vague "lol yaaaas its 2015 feminism soundbites i love watching my wife fuck black men" smug cucky bullshit.
>>26989802
I bet my ass someone will be saying the same thing about the word 'cuck' in 5 years, and the word 'racist' & 'genocidist'' in 10.
>>26989802
Who said I'm not?
I'm hanging out with normies now so I'll be whatever they want me to be.
>all those qtpies that I've been meeting these last couple of weeks
normiedom here i come
Because I'm not a pathetic nu-male cuckold who sucks up to women in a headache-inducingly transparent attempt to get into their pants.
Unfortunately, women are stupid so they fall for this shit hook, line, and sinker.
>>26989802
Because I've never met a woman who could be my equal.
All women are weaker and dumber than I am, and while they probably could surpass me, the thing is they dont even want to try. They want to be judged by their potential as they sit on the couch not working and getting fat.
>>26989802
There's nothing in it for me, and feminists do not have my interests in mind.
The world may be fucked but I have enough dignity left in me not to bend my knee to the force destroying it.
I'd rather huff glue and offer human sacrifice to Lucifer than call myself a feminist. At least then I'd get high.
Also crawl back to whatever hole you came from, you fucking cuckmachine.
Because I have thought and everytime I see them complain about something they always want someone else to do the dirty work.
>>26997066
>I'd rather huff glue and offer human sacrifice to Lucifer
which coincidentally probably has a higher success rate at attracting women than conforming to third-wave essjaydub feminism.
honestly i'm starting to get the feeling sjw feminism is just one massive shit test women are pulling on men, and most men are failing the test by either conforming or responding angrily instead of ignoring them.
Because it's called FEMinism.
>>26997112
Then how come male feminists get laid?
