When did you grow out of your edgy atheist phase?
I'm the first person in my family to become a christian. I don't believe in god and I don't believe in any of the stories in the bible but I believe in christian values. I think that they were right all along. If you're a degenerate who don't follow christian values you're pretty much guaranteed to get fucked in life.
Christians knows that they're right about everything and they just want to help people become happy and live better lives.
The world wouldn't be as shitty as it is if we were ruled by nazis
>>26594781
>I'm the first person in my family to become a christian
What were they previously? Everyone at least nominally belonged to a religion if you go back a few generations.
When I was about 16
I was into skepticism and atheism pretty heavily for a couple of years, but eventually I just stopped caring.
>>26594781
>christian
>don't believe in god.
sage in all fields.
Fell so hard for the fedora meme that you changed your religion, fucking pathetic.
>doesn't believe in god
>christian
ok m8
>>26594781
>Become a Christian
>Doesn't believe in God
Bit of a problem there lad. Pretty sure belief in God is important to Christianity.
>>26594781
I followed Jesus's sermon on the mount teaching before I believed in God's existence.
Protip: the thing about cutting off your hand if it causes you to sin is 1. A metaphor for cutting things out of your life (internet, tv, etc) 2. An illustration of how bad it is to be trapped in sin
I recommend reading the epistles as well as rrevelation to supplement the gospels
>tfw only christian in a family full of violent, degenerate heathens, converted at 19 because i was sick of neckbeard atheists acting superior when they are only marginally above average intelligence, wanted to be an intelligent voice for theism
>>26594781
At 18 when I realized that athiests can't explain how magnets work
When i was 16 years old, and before that when i was 8 years old, i had an epiphany.
"There are people on the internet who think they're funny."
Not only that, i figured out that in an effort to be funny, people on the internet will lie about what their true beliefs are. They'll mimic the delusions of the unhinged and the mentally ill, they'll put on a show of being someone that is either completely insufferable or an actual honest-to-God, sub-90 IQ own-cum-eating troglodyte with an internet connection and a mastery of basic English plus ethnic slurs, routine misogyny and simple, catchy right ideology jingles.
It didn't take long for me to figure out something even more sinister, that people on the internet are also : nihilists.
That's right. Nihilists. People on the internet are cynical, nihilistic and have a wicked sense of humour. This hit me like a brick in the face. I couldn't believe it.
And you know what else? These nihilists are not positive nihilists like Friedrich Nietzsche, that great philosopher that people outside of academia like to pretend to have read except for his wikipedia and wikiquotes pages. Oh no, these are negative nihilists, Renzo Novatore ain't got nothing on these bad seeds. They're gonna summon keke the pepe from the egyptian underworld, and you'll be so rustled.
>>26594781
>christian
>don't believe in god
if this isn't bait then promptly kill yourself you stupid fucking shitter. assholes like you are the reason i don't go to church anymore.
if you want to hang out with other self-intoxicated white dudes you can join a country club or something. just quit using the son of god as your mascot and making us look as retarded as you.
and if this is bait well 9/10 i guess, made me leave a legitimately angry reply and want to put my fist through my laptop
>>26595044
All of them are atheists and a few generations back they were jewish and probably some christians
Meanwhile, christians who actually DO believe in god generally no longer support any of these traditional morals and think everyone was born equal and there is no such thing as sin or hell
>>26594781
>>26594781
It's a start I guess but believing in god is common sense.
>>26595319
I don't believe in sin or hell either I just believe that everyone is better off being christian
>>26594781
>The world wouldn't be as shitty as it is if we were ruled by nazis
Woah, you had me believing you for a second until I read that.
>>26595319
Which is partly why the world is turning in to shit. Religion isn't about doing what you're told because you fear punishment it's about following an ideology you believe in it and the reason you believe in it is because you realize that they are right
>>26595054
Apatheist?
>>26594781
>I'm the first person in my family to become a christian. I don't believe in god and I don't believe in any of the stories in the bible but I believe in christian values. I think that they were right all along.
This is me 100%.
>>26595441
>Believe in god but don't believe in god's message
What's the fucking point of believing in god then?
>>26595558
Oops I meant to reply to this guy
>>26595319
>>26595319
>>26595135
Ah yes the old "anything that seems harsh by todays standards is a metaphor" meme. Heres a protip for you: if youre going to follow a religion be a man and follow it properly, or dont bother at all. Dont try and change it to suit your 21st century ideals.
If you join a religion because of its values and because you want to escape degenerates you need to get the fuck out.
t. religious anon
>>26594781
>he needs a dogma for morals
hello simpleton
>>26595655
There's literally no better reason to join a religion. Believing in god is just stupid if you're not going to listen to him anyways.
>>26595675
>> Believing in god is just stupid if you're not going to listen to him anyways.
What point are you trying to make here? Of course you follow him and his commandments when you believe in him. It is the very reason we still stand as a bulwark against degeneracy.
G E T O U T
>>26595675
>Believing in god is just stupid if you're not going to listen to him anyways.
CHRISTIANS BTFO!!!
>>26595675
>There's literally no better reason to join a religion.
Oh except you know, it being true right?
>>26594781
>Christian values
Right. So you've basically just taken their moral and ethical practices and followed them?
Why not just say you do these particular things, and not bother with the label? It's called being a good person.
>>26595696
>god
>real
blox
>>26595708
I tip my fedora hat to you sir!
U P V O T E
When exactly did you come to this conclusion?
Honestly curious because i lasted just a year with that mindset before returning to atheism. Whats the point...
>>26594781
I think a more appropriate question is when did you grow out of being a christian?
For me it was when I was 9 years old and learned how to think critically.
I was raised Catholic, went through an edgy phase at 11 and calmed down by 14. At 15 I saw the value of religion in some situations and had a greater appreciation of its benefits. I still don't believe in God though and I think we'd be better off without religion at all
>>26595787
>not being an atheist since you became self aware
>>26594781
>2016
>Being scientifically illiterate enough to believe in your magical sky daddy best friend.
Y'all need to grow up and realize the world doesn't revolve around you.
>>26594781
I agree with Christian values, but I don't believe in magical sky daddy, and if you do you're retarded
>>26595758
The point of it is to preach god's message to others so we can all be happy and together make the world a better place. All these inbred bible belt faggots in this thread who say that you need to believe in god in order to be christian are literally retarded. Those people are the reason the whole god meme started in the first place. They couldn't figure out why god's message is right by themselves so they needed someone to tell them that there's a higher power out there who's going to throw them in hell if they don't listen to him.
>>26595714
>Le fedora meme
XDDD
>Don't look critisize my religion or you are a neckbeard fedora-lord xDD.
Christians are like this droning horde of robots incapable of admitting they are wrong about their stubbornly held beliefs. And the second you criticize them they all say "tip fedora" as their only response.
>>26595787
Confirmed retard.
Everyone knows that god isn't real, but god's message are the single best guidelines for a happy life in the world.
Who /apatheist/ here?
>>26595296
Why not just re-embrace Judaism then?
You seem like a pretty shitty Christian, with the not believing in God thing.
>>26595876
>but god's message are the single best guidelines for a happy life in the world.
According to you.
>>26595296
>>26595296
having jewish in you
>>26594781
>I believe in christian values.
You had me...
>The world wouldn't be as shitty as it is if we were ruled by nazis
Then you lost me.
>>26594781
"I am the way the truth and the night, none shall enter the kingdom of heaven except through me."
You can't not believe in God and be a Christian. The whole point of being a Christian is believing that Jesus died for your sins. If you don't believe in God, you don't believe in his incarnation Jesus.
>>26595876
>god isn't real
>but god's message
do you hear yourself? where did god's message come from if god doesn't exist?
>>26595655
So then what's a good reason for joining?
Christianity on this site is the new Fedora
8 years ago Christians were laughed at on this site for being lunatics. Now le fedora meme has made Christianity cool and edgy.
>I can make le Redditors mad when I say I'm Christian xDDDDD
Believe or not you're still a fucking child.
>>26595919
Christians are grown children who need to feel safe under an all powerful father figure.
Most of them have been brainwashed since birth to believe what they do and as such it is very hard for them to think critically or drop their beliefs.
>>26595824
Totally agree. However when the church started to jew me out of money i decided to abandon it. Its all manipulation.
>>26595135
> Protip: the thing about cutting off your hand if it causes you to sin is 1. A metaphor for cutting things out of your life (internet, tv, etc
> 1. A metaphor for cutting things out of your life (internet, tv, etc
> internet
why are you still of 4chan, a website where degenerates aggregate? cut it out of your life
Actually, we're all God.
Peace.
>>26595824
CHRISTIANS BTFO
>The morals in the bible are super duper good, guys, seriously.
...They're literally common sense...
>>26595233
He sounds like a cultural Christian.
Some argue that culture is all the things people do without really believing in them (for example, like Santa Claus).
>>26596165
It's about more than just morals. The bible tells you exactly how you should live and that if you sway away from it you're going to get lost and I've grown to realize that the bible is not wrong about that.
The other day I went to this workshop on how to be less of a social autist, at a Christian rec center.
The people there were corny as shit, but in a really good way. They had this earnestness about them that you don't see much of these days.
There were people in there married for 20+ years, one of the guys' wives made fucking brownies, people were being supportive and helpful, it was a realay nice break from the degeneracy of the internet/real world.
I'm still not religious, but the experience definitely made me look at religion differently, might even pick up a Bible, see if there's anything worth learning from it.
>>26594781
>become Christian
>don't believe in God.
>don't believe in bible
>believe in Christian values
Works without faith is dead.
>>26596389
You don't know what faith is if you think it's about believing that god will come and save you. Faith is about believing that god's message is enough to help humanity help themselves. I have faith that the world is going to get better because even though we have different views we're all just trying to fulfill our own dreams and trying to create the world we want to live in and if everyone followed the word of one god we'd succeed.
>>26595655
>If you join a religion because of its values and because you want to escape degenerates you need to get the fuck out.
One of the main features of religion is a code of conduct, teachings on the right way to live.
Are you simply religious for some reward in the afterlife?
>>26595696
Suppose all religions are bullshit, but suppose that religion is a necessary illusion to brainwash females into being monogamous.
Would you rather spread the lie and have a wife and kids, or would you rather spread the truth and spend all your time on /r9k/ ?
>>26595497
I guess so. It's weird that such a term even exists.
>>26595808
>Being so religiously illiterate that you think the only concept of God is your magical sky daddy best friend
>>26595824
People are more likely to follow moral codes when they think they are being watched.
In fact, some argue that religion evolved in the first place due to agent detection, the tendency to attribitute intent to various things in the environment.
A lifeform that suspects some random movement in its environment is a possible predator or animal acting with intent will have a greater likelihood of surving that a lifeform that doesn't worry about movement in its environment. And after billions of years you get people thinking it was a ghost, or a witch, or a fairy, or a pixie, or a leprechaun, or a gnome, or a god.
I'm an atheist and never understood the fallacy of "you have to be religious to have morals". I know many Christians irl who are hypocrites and very judgmental holier-than-thou caricatures so our anecdotal claims cancel each other out. Meh.
>>26596389
If they don't do all kinds of evil things, wouldn't that be better for humanity and can't you let God sort it out?
>>26595597
>ancient people had no concept of metaphors
>Jesus literally turned Peter into a rock and used him as a literal foundation-stone for his church, a literal building which he personally assembled as a literal builder would
Pro-tip, that same Peter did not cut out his tongue which denied Jesus three times, and the risen Jesus did not tell him to remove his tongue. Perhaps because he had been turned into a rock?
>>26596858
This 100%. Christians who don't really know what religion is are getting btfo here in this thread
>>26594781
Im pretty sure lots of cultures believe they have it what you call 'christian values'. If you dont believe in the christian god i dont see why you would need to label yourself as a christian, simple as that. That said, good luck with further baiting.
>>26594781
>atheists cannot have morals
Quit with this meme already
>>26597185
>Thinking that it's just about morals
Everyone has morals.
Following christian morals vs following christian values is the difference between driving a car towards happiness and sitting on a train towards happiness.
>>26596927
Oh I'm sorry, is hypocrisy a sin in atheism?
I was never really an "edgy" atheist and never really talked about it because I realized from the start I would sound like an autist.
I'm a deist now, not that it makes much difference anyways.
>Christian
>doesn't believe in god
I fucking hate this website. Anyway, I made it a project to read the Bible, Quran, and Bhagavad Gita a while back, which I ended up finishing up with about six months ago. Still a le fedora tip xD but I respect (sensible) Christians and Hindus greatly because of it. Muslims are still a bit fucked in my eyes, but they were all amazing to read.
>>26594781
I was raised catholic and I thankfully grew out of my edgy god phase
What Christian values are there that don't occur naturally in most people (besides arbitrary things like remembering the Sabbath)?
>>26595054
Same here lad. I realised that alot of Atheists were just cunts telling people what to believe just like the hard core religious nuts do
>Christian values
Don't question anything, follow whatever your local pastor says without a thought, get married and dedicate your life to having children and nurturing a family, spend all your time with the church community or family singing happy songs in major chords so you never let yourself feel down or depressed, basically just live the most basic af life that people in the stone ages or 3rd world countries could live, whole life revolves around breeding and family. I mean its okay I guess, you'd probably be happy as long as you never let the facade down, happiness through Christian lifestyle is just happiness by shoving willful ignorance on yourself. Works for many I suppose.
>>26597660
These "values that occur naturally" that you're talking about don't occur naturally, they're christian values that you're taught or that you've learned from watching others, but many people tend to sway away from them because they don't know why they're so important. Having christian values means that you have the knowledge of why it's not a good idea to be a degenerate.
In order to really understand you have to look at people like the animals that we are and see that it really is best if we all just stay in the flock and act like sheep and treat each other like sheep. All through-out history people with christian values have fared best both in life and in the afterlife, if you believe in the afterlife.
>>26597660
>morality is natural
>>26597793
Gonna just call bullshit, I guess.
>>26594781
>family full of Jehovaz Witnesses
>other side full of Christians
>became an Atheist while realizing how demented it was to pray for the holy spirit to come inside you
>realized how evil Jehovas witnesses are towards other religions
They're just commercialized cults. If you want to believe in God go right ahead. Want to study various religions go right ahead. But following other people's interpretations of a book? No. Priests and pastors, if anything blaspheme God. Since when does God make certain people special that aren't Jesus Christ etc.
I had people tell me that they go to church because only the priest is blessed enough to understand God and the bible. That's not what religion is supposed to be.
>>26597660
Monogamy, chastity, virginity, charity, clothing the poor, feeding the sick, visiting people in prison, caring for the needy, empathy, putting certain virtues before money, respect for human life, loyalty, commitment, etc.
Religious people donate more money than atheists, religious people donate more blood than atheists, religious people have more children than atheists. And autistics and psychopaths who are lacking in empathy are less likely to believe in God because they don't care what goes on in other people's minds so they don't care what God is thinking.
>>26597816
Yeah, most people don't actually don't need to be told not to kill or steal. That's why you find morality even outside of Christian lands.
I can see why you'd be a Christian if you're so fucked up that you actually need to be reminded not to though.
>>26597772
The nuclear family is the only reason anybody exists.
I suppose you're happier masturbating to animu and playing vidya and posting on /r9k/ and being an evolutionary dead end, instead of having a wife and a handful of children?
We can probably blame barren feminist women for making "breeding" a bad word. If there is no God it's the only reason you're here.
>>26597923
Tons of people steal.
And if morality is so natural, why is bullying a thing? Why is cyberbullying a thing? If morality is so natural, how do you explain genocide? How do you explain war? How do you explain school shootings?
The people who argue that morality is natural have a lot of explaining to do.
>>26597909
>Reliious people
I'm asking about Christianity specifically. All of these values can be found in the east, in places where kids grow up not even knowing what the Bible is (exceot maybe visiting prisoners?).
>>26597968
Natural to most people, not to all. Bullying happens mostly among children because they're not fully developed yet and have a weak sense of empathy, but most people get over that.
The rest is because of dissociation, and that happens whether you hold Christian values or not.
>>26597972
I'm not saying Christianity has a monopoly on virtues, but in the Western world it's a huge source of them.
Do you think North Korea and South Korea and China and Japan are all about
>Monogamy, chastity, virginity, charity, clothing the poor, feeding the sick, visiting people in prison, caring for the needy, empathy, putting certain virtues before money, respect for human life, loyalty, commitment, etc.
In Cambodia, Pol Pot was a communist and the Khmer Rouge executed at least 1.3 million people, and their policies killed up to 2.5 million people, many of them targeted for religion.
Slavoj Zizek on Satalin:
>But what about the Stalinist Communist mass killings? What about the extra-legal liquidations of the nameless millions? It is easy to see how these crimes were always justified by their own ersatz-god, a "god that failed" as Ignazio Silone, one of the great disappointed ex-Communists, called it: they had their own god, which is why everything was permitted to them.
>>26598022
>Bullying happens mostly among children because they're not fully developed yet and have a weak sense of empathy, but most people get over that.
If empathy was natural then why would children have a weak sense of it? Kids can be extremely cruel.
And bullying continues throughout life. There's workplace bullying, bullying online, even politicians are accused of being bullies, and one could argue that militaries are simply the biggest bullies possible.
Most people are naturally selfish and don't care about strangers. A lot of people have to learn empathy and socialization. Religion is about social obligations to fellow humans.
>>26594781
I agree in strong christian values too. Stoning your children when they speak against you is obviously the correct path. My favorite story of the bible is when god sent 2 she-bears to rip and tear forty and two children limb from limb and left their mangled dead corpses scattered across the forest. They deserved it for calling someone baldy.
Face it fag; all of the "christian values" you enjoy have nothing to do with the bible or the religion; they are cultural memes that parasitically attached to the religion. You can barely find supporting scripture for any of these values and you can find the same level of supporting scripture for opposing values. The religion is fucking garbage. The conservative values that people invented and somehow incorporated into the religion without any real scriptural basis are what you like.
I went through my atheist phase when I was 14. luckily it didn't last long.
>>26598089
>The conservative values that people invented and somehow incorporated into the religion without any real scriptural basis are what you like.
And what's bad about liking it?
>>26598043
But these values do exist in the east, and it's not because Christianity brought them there. That's because they're naturally occurring values.
On the other hand, people need to protect themselves from threat, and that's why the "us vs. them" mentality needs to exist. On a large scale that can be devastating, but it requires that you no longer acknowledge "them" as actual human beings, so morality is no longer relevant. Again, this is seen in any conflict, on any side, no matter what values they hold.
>>26598089
>Stoning your children when they speak against you is obviously the correct path. My favorite story of the bible is when god sent 2 she-bears to rip and tear forty and two children limb from limb and left their mangled dead corpses scattered across the forest. They deserved it for calling someone baldy.
Christians are followers of Jesus. Can you explain to me how the Old Testament is "Christian" when it was written by Jews before Christ was even born, and Jews don't even consider Christ divine?
These are Christian values:
Matthew 25:34-40
>Then shall the King say to them on his right hand, Come, you blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we you an hungered, and fed you? or thirsty, and gave you drink? When saw we you a stranger, and took you in? or naked, and clothed you? Or when saw we you sick, or in prison, and came to you? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Christians donate more money to charity than atheists.
Besides, for atheists, it's like stoning people to death, or sending bears to maul people to death are "sins." How could an atheist even say stoning someone to death is "wrong"? An atheist can appeal to the law, but what about when the law proscribes stoning? An atheist can appeal to personal moral codes, but those are all made up if there is no God.
>all I believe in is Christian values,not that mysticism bullcrap
So what you're describing to me is that you take your moral stance so loosely that you don't even need to motivate it to yourself. You just read a book you don't believe the majority of the content in and buy the parts which aren't complete lunacy.
Now I'm not criticising protestant Christianity. My point is simply that if you just take a religion, strip away all the mysticism and keep the morals. What you get is a largely unmotivated moral philosophy.
I'm sure you could learn a lot more by actively pursuing Christian philosophy rather than jumping straight to the answers. They may be bias because they're favoring their religion but at least they're trying to convince you on the grounds you care about unlike priests or the Bible.
You could obviously be a lot worse. I'm happy for you anon. I wish you can delude yourself into being a true Christian and achieving happiness I cannot.
>>26598202
>But these values do exist in the east, and it's not because Christianity brought them there. That's because they're naturally occurring values.
Like I said, Christianity doesn't have a monopoly on virtue. But those are ideals. You could argue that Christianity is simply a codification of ideals of good behavior.
Those are virtues that you really have to work to achieve, because they don't come naturally to most people. It's much easier to do the opposite: sleep around, have sex before marriage, keep everything for yourself, not help people on the street, chase after money, stand by while some crowd gangrapes a woman, cheating, getting divorced, greed, gluttony, lust, sloth, pride, wrath, etc.
Forgiveness is not an easy thing to do. Turning the other cheek is not in human nature. Revenge is in human nature.
>>26598086
>If empathy was natural then why would children have a weak sense of it? Kids can be extremely cruel.
If body hair is natural, why don't children have much? Because they're not fully developed yet.
>>26598289
But if these values weren't natural in humans, how would they occur in different cultures around the world?
>>26598254
>What you get is a largely unmotivated moral philosophy.
God (whether God exists or not) acts as the ultimate moral authority. A rock, if you will, instead of shifting sands on a beach (moral relativism).
>In three recent books - The Fragile Absolute, On Belief, and The Puppet and the Dwarf - Slavoj Zizek calls on the Left to reclaim the Christian legacy from the religious Right.
>Zizek prescribes a dose of Christianity to an anemic and largely impotent Left he diagnoses as suffering from a debilitating malady - postmodern ethical relativism.
>>26598206
>Can you explain to me how the Old Testament is "Christian"
Jesus was a proponent of its teachings.
>>26598399
Not sure what you're saying but yeah. God does motivate everything in the Bible. If you don't buy into the idea of God what you get is some sane conclusions but they're ultimately unmotivated because they stood on the Axiom of God, which doesn't exist in this person's case.
I don't see why you gotta make it political though. Frankly I think Jesus would oppose that given his actions against mortal authority on religious matters.
>>26594781
>I don't believe in God
Then you're not a Christian.
>I believe in Christian values
The first Commandment requires a belief in One God, and loving that one God, not a belief in Christian values.
Stop role playing.
>>The world wouldn't be as shitty as it is if we were ruled by nazis
>goes on about Christian values
>idealizes Nazis
Loving every Laugh.
>>26598420
Cmon be fair. He also contradicted the teachings he claimed not to change. Either he meant that you're not supposed to take him seriously when he messes with the old testament or he's been misquoted.
>>26594781
>When did you grow out of your edgy atheist phase?
too late anon, too late.......
Pain is inevitable.
Suffering is a choice.
>>26598332
A lot of atheists argue that empathy or morality is innate. And yet how to explain bullying, mass shootings, etc?
Adrogens like testosterone and estrogen lead to puberty and pubic hair. There's no puberty for empathy. Although I have read that oxytocin may be linked with empathy, which is why petting dogs is often beneficial for people with autism (who are often lacking in empathy).
I've read the human brain develops until maybe 25, but for people who argue that empathy and morality are "natural", that's tons of years to wait until someone is developed. And even "fully developed" adults have a hard time caring about others. A lot of empathy is taught. And much of religion is about caring for people other than your self.
>>26598391
I think many of those ideals come naturally, but actually doing them does not come naturally.
In theory, it's good to always tell the truth. In practice, people lie.
In theory, murder is wrong. In practice, there's a lot of murder in the world.
People don't want to be treated badly, so it's natural to hope people won't treat you badly. You could argue the Golden Rule is natural, and most religions have some form of the Golden Rule: treat others how you would like to be treated.
But that's not easy. It's really difficult. It feels good to be mean. That's based on feelings of power. It feels good to get revenge. That's based on feelings of justice.
So there's a urge for justice against others, but also a hope for mercy for oneself.
And humans invented religion because it served a userful purpose.
the only thing edgier than an atheist in my eyes are /pol/tards who 'don't believe in god but recognize the importance of christian values'
>>26594781
>I don't believe in god
Then you're by definition an atheist and not a Christian.
>>26598420
No.
The Old Testament taught eye for an eye. Jesus taught turn the other cheek.
The Old Testament taught people to stone women. Jesus said let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
The Old Testament taught revenge. It was an extension of the Babylonian Code of Hammurabi (an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth). Jesus taught forgiveness, love one another, love thy enemies.
>>26598822
this
the old testament is the jewish part of the bible
>people using the naturalistic fallacy
You can not be serious, come on.
>>26598478
So what do you call a Catholic who goes to church every week but doesn't believe in God?
You can do the whole "not a true Christian" thing, but that's their religion.
>>26598697
So is there a difference between holding Christian values and living by Christian values?
>>26598854
a catholic is somebody who believes in God
a person who goes to church every week but is an atheist is an atheist, not a catholic. are you dense, you can't call yourself a vegetarian if you eat meat once a week
>>26598854
A fucking cunt that needs to stop desecrating the Eucharist and quit pretending they're anything other than an atheist. I like "edgy atheists" more than any other kind. If nothing else I don't need to worry about them bothering with that shit
>>26598728
What's "edgy" about Christian values? Also, this is /r9k/ not /pol/
Atheism doesn't come with a bunch of moral codes or virtues or values.
So for someone who doesn't believe an an interventionist God or that God answers prayers, but still sees value in traditional conservative values, what do you call them? They were Deists.
>>26598911
Deists believe in a god.
>>26598871
There's a difference between believing in Christian values and living by Christian values.
There's the ideal, and there's reality.
There's what people hope they would do in a given situation, and there's what people actually do.
>>26598882
I'm pretty sure there a many Catholic priests who don't actually believe in God, they just say they do.
But they see value in the culture of Catholicism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Christian
>Cultural Christians are individuals who identify themselves with Christian culture while not being religious Christians. This kind of identification may be due to family background, personal experiences, the social and cultural environment in which they grew up, etc.
Want to bible school as a kid. Skeptical about how literal the bible should be taken. Live by Christian values.
>start every prayer with "dear God if you happen to exist. "
I'm not going to Satan's prison r right?
>>26598822
Wasn't that one time he lost his shit at a bank and all his friends were like holding him back and apologising for the mess. And like, this was a fucking argument about no Sunday trading?
>>26599000
Then they aren't Catholics and need to fuck off
Of course you have no evidence beyond "i think" so it's a moot point
>>26599035
Quit acting like the bible is a book
It's a collection of books off various genres.
Read the early church fathers
>>26599000
I don't think you understand me.
To be a 'Christ'ian, you need to believe in 'Christ'. it literally is that simple, I don't know how you're still jumping through mental hoops to say otherwise.
At 14 because I thought being religious would be edgy because everyone my age was a degenerate antitheist.
Now I'm still religious, and it's to the point where I decided I don't believe in science.
>>26598894
Atheist does not necessarily mean irreligious. Tons of people still go to church just because their family does, it's how they were raised, etc. Atheism can be hidden from others, but religion is a very social process.
Why couldn't someone be an atheist Catholic? Sure, "true" Catholics would say those people are not a "real" Catholic or maybe not a "good" Catholic, but they still hold on to Catholic culture.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_catholic
Are you arguing that when someone stops believing in God, or stops having doubts about God, they need to immediately stop going to church? If people who didn't struggle with faith couldn't go to church, they'd be almost empty.
>>26599098
Practicing abrahamic religion rituals does not mean you are religious, to be religious in an abrahamic sense means to believe in God
This is not a hard concept to grasp. Are you stupid? Going to church while being an atheist does not mean you are religious
>>26598961
Yes, a god that does not perform miracles, a god that does not answer prayers, a god that does not intervene, a god that hasn't been heard from in billions of years, a god that has left the building.
Some people argue that many of the "Deists" that were the founding fathers of the United States were actually just atheists, but in those days calling yourself an atheist was unheard of.
>>26599098
>Tons of people still go to church just because their family does, it's how they were raised
And it would honestly be better for them to be executed than allowed to continue. Fuck off and quit desecrating holy communion
>>26599147
Oh shut the fuck up
Francis Bacon talked shit about atheists
The bible talks shit about atheists
Atheism is not a new phenomenon
>christian
> I don't believe in god and I don't believe in any of the stories in the bible
kill yourself your hypocritical faggot
>>26598963
Right, so people behaving, for lack of a better of a better word, immorally doesn't mean that they don't hold these moral views innately. It's the same whether they've been taught or not, it seems.
>>26599053
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleansing_of_the_Temple
>The cleansing of the Temple narrative tells of Jesus expelling the merchants and the money changers from the Temple, and occurs in all four canonical gospels of the New Testament.
>Jesus expels the merchants and money changers from the Temple, accusing them of turning the Temple into a den of thieves through their commercial activities.
Maybe it's even related to this:
Matthew 19:24
>I'll say it again--it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the Kingdom of God!"
>>26598591
Do you think bullies and mass shooters would stop if they were given the Bible, or do you think there's something else in them to make them act that way?
You know what is good and what is bad, you don't need a religion to enforce it
>>26594781
>christian values
>christian values
Implying >christian values are not in fact pagan values that survived no even along with christianity, but despite christianity.
>>26599148
Oh boy this is ironic
>>26599058
>Then they aren't Catholics and need to fuck off
>Of course you have no evidence beyond "i think" so it's a moot point
I can see you not liking cultural Catholics but they do exist.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/09/03/who-are-cultural-catholics/
>But according to a new Pew Research Center survey of U.S. Catholics and others, an additional one-in-ten American adults (9%) consider themselves Catholic or partially Catholic in other ways, even though they do not self-identify as Catholic on the basis of religion.
>Who are these "cultural Catholics"? Often, they think of themselves as Catholic in one way or another even though many belong to another faith tradition (such as Protestantism). Others are religiously unaffiliated, identifying as atheist, agnostic or simply "nothing in particular."
>Most of these cultural Catholics (62%) say that for them personally, being Catholic is mainly a matter of ancestry and/or culture (rather than religion).
>And about six-in-ten (62%) of these cultural Catholics who have immediate family connections to Catholicism say that this family background is the reason for their link to the Catholic faith.
http://www.pewforum.org/2015/09/02/u-s-catholics-open-to-non-traditional-families/
>Fully 56% of white Catholics say they take Communion each time they attend Mass, compared with just 21% of Hispanic Catholics. Most Hispanics say they take Communion only some of the time (35%) or that they never receive the sacrament (27%).
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/31/us/politics/31catholics.html
>There are indications that Judge Sotomayor is more like the majority of American Catholics: those who were raised in the faith and shaped by its values, but who do not attend Mass regularly and are not particularly active in religious life. Like many Americans, Judge Sotomayor may be what religion scholars call a "cultural Catholic" - a category that could say something about her political and social attitudes.
>dont believe in god
>christian
>>26599359
"Cultural Catholics" aren't Catholics. They don't believe in the Catholic faith. And they certainly don't have the devotion or drive to become priests.
>>26595919
It just weird how /pol/ and 4chan in general take pride for being assholes and such, then when fedora memes hit, then suddenly everyone turned into christians because they didn't want to be assholes like those neckbeards.
4chan have to always be contrarian.
so is "i'm not spiritual, but i'm religious the new "i'm not religious, but i'm spiritual"?
>>26599063
>To be a 'Christ'ian, you need to believe in 'Christ'. it literally is that simple, I don't know how you're still jumping through mental hoops to say otherwise.
I see what you're saying, but many people were raised Christian and no longer really believe in Christianity, but still consider themselves Christians, because that's the culture they grew up in.
Also, someone can be a follower of Christ's teachings, and not believe that Jesus was God incarnate.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/09/03/who-are-cultural-catholics/
>one-in-ten American adults (9%) consider themselves Catholic or partially Catholic in other ways, even though they do not self-identify as Catholic on the basis of religion.
Also see
>>26599359
>>26599137
>Practicing abrahamic religion rituals does not mean you are religious
Yes it does.
I didn't make it up.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Ctholic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Christian
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Judaism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Mormon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Muslim
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/09/03/who-are-cultural-catholics/
http://www.pewforum.org/2015/09/02/u-s-catholics-open-to-non-traditional-families/
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/31/us/politics/31catholics.html
>Going to church while being an atheist does not mean you are religious
Besides Cultral Christians, etc, do you realize that not every religion believes in a God?
>>26599148
I'm not one of them so don't get mad at me.
And many "cultural Catholics" don't even take Communion.
http://www.pewforum.org/2015/09/02/u-s-catholics-open-to-non-traditional-families/
>Fully 56% of white Catholics say they take Communion each time they attend Mass, compared with just 21% of Hispanic Catholics. Most Hispanics say they take Communion only some of the time (35%) or that they never receive the sacrament (27%).
>>26594781
That's good to hear m8
That's what I believed before I became a full blown Christian
Read the bible and see how all the prophecies about the Jewish people came true over the years
All of the prophecies came true, but those are the easiest to see
>>26599177
>Atheism is not a new phenomenon
I know. It's never been very socially acceptable to identify as an atheist until the last century.
Which is why it would be safer for an atheist to call himself a deist instead.
>When did you grow out of your edgy atheist phase?
>I'm the first person in my family to become a christian. I don't believe in god...
So you're an atheist pretending to be a Christian because you want to reap earthly benefits.
Sounds pretty edgy to me desu senpai.
>>26599236
Well I don't think the Bible is necessarily the best book for teaching people empathy. But I doubt that very many mass shooters regularly attend church.
Religion is a social phenomenon and it involves social obligations to other people. Emile Durkheim argued that religion is one of the forces that creates in people a sense of moral obligation to adhere to society's demands, inspiring devotion to a community beyond individual wants and needs.
A lot of mass shooters are socially isolated, alienated, cut off from other people. Loners, if you will. Religion is a social thing, and I'm sure many shooters could be diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder.
>>26599244
What about homosexuality?
>>26599093
>Now I'm still religious, and it's to the point where I decided I don't believe in science.
Whether or not you believe in science doesn't make it any more or less true. You are denying reality because you are too narcissistic to realize that reality doesn't revolve around you.
God is your ego and nothing else.
>>26599872
Religion teaches obedience to authority. It is a tool of the powerful and rich to condition the masses for their servitude. It is used to make slavery seem and sound pleasant and noble when it is infact, horrendous.
Christianity destroys people's survival instincts.
>>26599399
You might be sitting right next to them in the pews.
And many clergy become atheists over time.
http://www.alternet.org/story/155798/major_threat_to_religion_clergy_people_coming_out_as_atheists
http://clergyproject.org/
>For current and former religious professionals without supernatural beliefs.
>>26599148
>And it would honestly be better for them to be executed than allowed to continue. Fuck off and quit desecrating holy communion
>And it would honestly be better for them to be executed than allowed to continue.
>executed
And that folks is why Militant atheists exist. You people are insane.
>>26599284
>pagan values
No Christians are far more degenerate than that.
I want to find redemption through faith, but I went to a church once, and I'm not like those people and their ordinary, happy little families. I want to be part of a kind of born-again church attended by guys who just got out of prison or something. People who know what the other side is like and found their way back to the light.
I'm an atheist simply because I don't believe in a God. I don't argue with anyone about it, I don't debate it, and no one cares. It is quite amusing to see how people try to dictate others personal beliefs here. Being an edgy teen atheist is one thing, being someone that judges another person purely off their religious beliefs is another.
>>26599933
Science isn't reality. Science seeks to measure reality.
The question is whether there are any parts of reality that science cannot measure, whether there are any questions about reality that science cannot answer. If there are any mysteries to reality that science cannot solve.
In a godless universe, humans did not evolve to understand the universe. Yet scientists still trust in human perceptions, and still trust in the human brain, and still trust in interpretations of science that happen in the human brain.
>>26600096
>>26599284
Christians had a pagan attitude towards a Semetic spirituality, which would explain their hypocritical self-defense against the Muslims in the crusades.
>moderate catholic
>atheist
>sedevacantist catholic/orthodox
>Pagan
I am now home.
>>26599994
If by obedience you mean a wife obeying her husband, sure. If by servitude you mean a wife serving her family, sure. If by slavery you mean a wife staying loyal to her husband until death do us part, sure.
Christianity instills monogamy into females who biologically have no reason to be monogamous, but rather hypergamous.
And if Christianity destroyed survival instincts, it wouldn't have survived for 2,000 years.
Even atheists who think religion evolved believe that it evolved because it offered some kind of advantage to the survival of humanity. And Christians outbreed atheists.
I just don't get why people believe in god. Like what do you get out of it? What is the point?
>>26600185
Is judging people wrong? Is the God-you-don't-believe-in going to smite me for it?
>>26600291
Hav you tried sincerely and honestly praying before?
>>26600192
And that is why science has so many rules you must follow if you wish for your interpretations to be widely considered as valid.
Still, there certainly are some questions science will just never solve, at least not completely. Like that of the existence a vaguely defined entity that just so happens to exist beyond anything we could possibly have that could ever measure it in any way.
But a better question would be: is it worth to let your life be controlled by something you don't know and will never know? And even if you chose to do that, how could you ever justify having any rules of this vaguely defined entity become mandatory for other humans?
>>26600291
What do people get out of not believing in God? A smug sense of self-satisfaction? A feeling of intellectual superiority because they are as atheist as a cockroach?
Humans are the only animals that believe in God. Atheism has nothing for me. It takes no effort. Every virus is atheist.
Being a brainless christian is just as bad as being an edgy atheist
I grew out of it at age 14
>>26600321
No, because I have never been shown that it has worked. Has it worked for you? Unless it is an actual miracle, or if every time you pray you get what you prayed for, then whatever happens in your life is just coincidence or you made it happen for yourself.
>>26600340
No one should believe in something just for the sake of believing. Everyone that believes in god does so for a reason. If you don't have a reason you don't believe in him.
>>26600328
The "validity" of scientific facts is based on scientific consensus, the consensus theory of truth, on prevailing paradigms (like, for example, the Standard Model).
Scientists believe in all kinds of things they've never measured. For 100 years they believed in gravitational waves when they hadn't even been detected yet. Scientists talk about quarks when they've never been observed.
Scientists talk about virtual particles popping in and out of existence. Once you believe that, how is a God popping into existence a radical proposition?
>But a better question would be: is it worth to let your life be controlled by something you don't know and will never know? And even if you chose to do that, how could you ever justify having any rules of this vaguely defined entity become mandatory for other humans?
Like black holes? Like an exoplanet billions of light years away? Like rocks on Mars? None of thos really have any influence on life on Earth, but how people treat each other does. Science doesn't contain moral codes. And some people argue that science is always murderous, just look at the history of animal experimenation and even human experimentation in the name of science. Science is amoral, it doesn't care if it's morally right to fuck with rodents or great apes, it only cares about control. Science doesn't care about the "ethics" of cloning or gene editing or making a baby with 3 parents. It's cold and functional.
But even science has codes of conduct. And the law consists of codes of conduct. So it's not like religion invented the idea of other people following rules, or punishing/shaming people for disobeying them. Even tumblr with its insane SJWs will shame people for not conforming to community norms, they exert a normative social force.
>>26600405
And that reason is usually "I was taught this by people who I trusted unconditionally and now that I am really invested in it I don't want to reevaluate my beliefs, so I just won't".
>>26600340
Holding on to that belief is pretty good, though. Besides giving one a sense of purpose, it also gives you a sense of belonging to a community AND the community that goes with it. It's pretty neat. I'd believe, if I could.
>>26600535
You have literally no idea what you are talking about.
>>26600377
Well it's not that black and white, I rarely ask for specific things, I usually just ask him to watch over me and my loved ones in a general way and thank him for the things he's given me. And I honestly do feel God's presence when I pray. I know a lot of people wanna dismiss that as wishful thinking or whatever but it's not
The way I look at you have nothing to lose. You might feel like an idiot trying to talk to somebody who you don't think is there at first, but just be honest with him and tell him that if you try. There really isn't a "right" way to pray if it comes from the heart
>>26599651
Christianity is not a Nationality, nor an Ethnicity, or Cultural Identity. Of course you can have Cultures that were influenced by Christianity, and this is the case with Cultural 'Christians'.
>Also, someone can be a follower of Christ's teachings, and not believe that Jesus was God incarnate.
Still not a Christian. The english word Christian has always meant a Religious follower of Christ. Any Secular followers of Christ should use a different word besides Christian to avoid confusion.
>>26594781
Never had such a phase, just slowly lost my belief and I'm not being militant about like attention whores.
>>26600577
There's a real neat guide at tulpa.info if you wish to improve your techniques.
>>26600405
https://ernstbloch.wordpress.com/2012/01/30/z-atheism-in-christianity/
>As Zizek points out, Pascal's Wager is not about belief at all but about action is therefore a highly pragmatic way of approaching the question of the existence of God. As he puts it: "one cannot decide to believe, one can only decide to act as if one believes, in the hope that belief will arise by itself; perhaps this trust that if you act as if you believe, belief will arise, is itself the wager."
>the atheist subject engages itself in a (political, artistic, etc.) project, "believes" in it, without any guarantee. My thesis is thus double: not only is Christianity (at its core, if disavowed by its institutional practice) the only truly consistent atheism, it is also that atheists are the only true believers."
>Atheists are true believers in the sense that they have to believe in the ability of human beings to make sense of existence, to imbue it with some kind of purpose within the purposelessness.
>>26600562
I think I do. I've discussed science and philosophy and religion for many years.
But then again, if there is no God, why should I trust the chemicals in my brain telling me I know what I'm talking about?
>>26600675
>atheists have to imbue meaning
No they don't have to at all. They can believe life is meaningless but enjoy is because their brains allow them to. It sure is easier with heaven being a thing though.
>>26594781
>I don't believe in god and I don't believe in any of the stories in the bible
Congratulations, you're still an atheist. Just an obnoxious, contrarian one with no backbone.
Like 16, but now I'm just annoyed by everyone's preference. I've always have and always will remember that Christians and Muslims are backwards anti-intellectual anti-progress savages that expose themselves whenever they're given the slightest hint of authority. That's not edgy, either. I'm not demonizing folks who go to church on Sunday, but I fucking dare you to bring up any religious political figure who isn't fucking the world up with their church-grown beliefs.
>>26600735
Why do you have to believe in something at all, though?
You can just trust in what is very likely to be true, consider what could be true, and disregard everything that is very likely to be false.
Life is hardly ever black and white. You always need to just do your best and hope it works.
>>26600734
>why trust chemicals
Why care? It's all you really have to go on. Even with God. Unless there's some special interaction with God which isn't connected to the brain he's still using your chemicals. If there's a soul he's interacting with its still the same thing, it's just a soul instead of chemicals. Your consciousness is more important to consider than the specifics of the interaction.
Logic is pure though. It's solid bedrock and you'd need someone like God to destroy it. And it's pretty hard to imagine how, but they claim he's omnipotent so I can't really question that right?
>>26600581
Would you say that Christmas is a Christian holiday? And it celebrates the birth of Jesus? A birth of Jesus that did not happen in December?
There is a culture to Christianity.
http://www.lacan.com/zizek-passion.htm
>We no longer "really believe," we just follow (some of) the religious rituals and mores out of respect for the "lifestyle" of the community to which we belong. Indeed, what is a "cultural lifestyle" if not that every December in every house there is a Christmas tree-although none of us believes in Santa Claus? Perhaps, then, "culture" is the name for all those things we practice without really believing in them, without "taking them seriously." Isn't this why we dismiss fundamentalist believers as "barbarians," as a threat to culture-they dare to take seriously their beliefs? Today, ultimately, we perceive as a threat to culture those who immediately live their culture, those who lack a distance toward it.
>people in this thread don't realize you don't have to "believe in science" to be an atheist
>people in this thread don't realize that you could be an atheist but still be superstitious
>people in this thread don't realize if you don't believe in go, you are an atheist, no exceptions
>OP is an atheist with Christian values
>>26600799
No you can choose most ways of 'belief' but what you're doing her is accepting probabilistic beliefs. If God only sent you to he'll 50% of the time for lying to your parents that can obviously still be a belief.
Most of these theological discussions aren't really about reflecting life accurately though. It's pretty clear since it'd just be science at that point. We can't know what happens after death, we can think it's likely something or nothing happens. Some people talk about information retention in physics. I'd consider that the most scientifically sane reason for a 'soul'. But it's not what we'd imagine based on religion. Whatever you chose is fine as long as you don't base life decisions on it really. Because you don't know.
>>26600907
> first example is making a decision basing it on god
> says you should not take decisions based on superstition
Well which is it, mate?
(I agree btw. Second point, of course)
>"Christian values"
You mean like killing everyone who doesn't believe in your God? Like the first commandment?
Oh right, you follow the cherry-picked, diluted, "peace and love" version of Christianity that we practice today, not the genocidal, ACTUAL Christianity in the bible.
>>26600947
I'm a bit confused. Don't quite see where I argued for God being a good basis of decision making. But I'm against the idea of basing anything off superstition.
Probably confused me with the guy who you replied to with the link and quote. Should have said I'm not him.
>>26600817
The human brain didn't evolve to understand the universe or comprehend the universe or understand the laws of reality.
Why trust that your perceptions are an accurate match to reality? You could say it's all you have to go on, but that introduces skepticism and doubt into everything. That's one reason Robert Anton Wilson advocated agnosticism, not just agnosticism about God, about agnosticism about everything. You cannot ever know what "is", you can only know how something seems to you at that time.
And classical either/or logic is a human invention that was disrupted by the theory of quantum mechanics where a particle can be in more than one state simultaneously, which arguably led to postmodernism, and postmodern moral relativism. When it was first being talked about, people described quantum mechanics as the floor dropping out from under them. That solid bedrock of classical physics that people had put their faith in for centuries was gone. Now people talk about particles popping in and out of existence, which sounds a little...supernatural?
>>26600734
Well first science is not based on consensus and second scientists have seen the effects of quarks and can measure their properties which basically means they have seen them.
>>26601414
>supernatural?
Not when you're an actual science person who understands the science behind it.
Generally physics now days go from math to experiment. Not the other way around. We manage to describe the world before we see it. Perhaps that might help you understand that it's not only observation, it's a consistent system.
>>26595894
>Ecclesiastes 2:24
>King Solomon, the wisest man on earth, was asked about how to find happiness or some shit like that
>A person can do nothing better than to eat and drink and find satisfaction in their own toil. This too, I see, is from the hand of God
So just take in the simple pleasures of life as they come at you, do not overly strive for pleasure in things that are degenerate, and find satisfaction in your work. Nobody is happy being a NEET, nobody is happy being a cubicle wageslave. But having a job you enjoy or even having goals, working toward them, and being content with that is the way to enjoy life. Seems to me the best guide for happiness.
>>26601023
Well yeah. Like I said I don't believe in god, I just believe in what the new testament teaches you and what Christians teaches you. It's pretty frightening how right they are about everything
>>26601443
>Well first science is not based on consensus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_consensus
>Thomas Kuhn, who argued instead that experimental data always provide some data which cannot fit completely into a theory, and that falsification alone did not result in scientific change or an undermining of scientific consensus. He proposed that scientific consensus worked in the form of "paradigms", which were interconnected theories and underlying assumptions about the nature of the theory itself which connected various researchers in a given field. Kuhn argued that only after the accumulation of many "significant" anomalies would scientific consensus enter a period of "crisis". At this point, new theories would be sought out, and eventually one paradigm would triumph over the old one - a cycle of paradigm shifts rather than a linear progression towards truth. Kuhn's model also emphasized more clearly the social and personal aspects of theory change, demonstrating through historical examples that scientific consensus was never truly a matter of pure logic or pure facts.
>scientists have seen the effects of quarks and can measure their properties which basically means they have seen them
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quark
>Due to a phenomenon known as color confinement, quarks are never directly observed or found in isolation
>For this reason, much of what is known about quarks has been drawn from observations of the hadrons themselves.
>>26601492
>Generally physics now days go from math to experiment. Not the other way around. We manage to describe the world before we see it. Perhaps that might help you understand that it's not only observation, it's a consistent system.
Yeah, meaning tons of theoretical physics is just that, theoretical with no experiments to support it.
By describing something before you've observed it, you create a paradigm which influences what you observe, since you are motivated to notice things which fit the theory, and ignore thing that don't.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory-ladenness
>In the philosophy of science, observations are said to be "theory-laden" when they are affected by the theoretical presuppositions held by the investigator
>Popper claimed that, if a theory is falsifiable, then it is scientific.
And you can use math to describe reality, but whether or not math can be be used to describe all of reality is pretty much unfalsifiable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_G%C3%B6del
>The first incompleteness theorem states that for any self-consistent recursive axiomatic system powerful enough to describe the arithmetic of the natural numbers (for example Peano arithmetic), there are true propositions about the naturals that cannot be proved from the axioms.
>>26594781
>grow out of your edgy atheist phase
>I don't believe in god
do you know what being atheist means?
You can follow christian values and be Atheist at the same time. Atheism is simply not believing in a god.
>>26594781
> tfw militant atheist from 19-20
> tfw 24 now and wishing I could go back in time and kill myself before it happened.
>>26601023
The first commandment doesn't tell you to kill anybody
>>26602033
You are proving you don't know what you are talking about.
Scientific consensus is not the same as science. And observing the effects of quarks is similar to observing them. Scientists knew of the existence of electrons and protons long before they first observed them. Sometimes science does faster than technology.
>>26602312
Deuteronomy 13:10 states the consequence of breaking the first commandment
http://biblehub.com/deuteronomy/13-10.htm
>>26594781
I know this is bait but I actually wish I was naive enough to believe in an all loving god given how project: earth turned out
like if you can honestly look at the world and STILL believe god is good or even exists that must be really nice
>>26595054
Same here. Used to be into all that, now I don't really care. You can believe what you want, as long as you're not harming people with it idgaf.
>>26602374
Also killing someone is a punishment which consequence is death, which is entirely self-contradictory.
>>26595855
You made no point or argument whatsoever, you are hardly in a position to judge me for telling you to take off your freaking fedora.
>>26602420
>> Old Testament
>>26602192
Yes. But it's a far more solid idea than basing your reality on guess information that isn't applicable universally. If we have a theory we don't really act upon it until there's significant certainty (or its 'proven' which honestly is just a consensus thing still but it's massive certainty). What you're suggesting doesn't allow for any certainty really.
Also you seem to have missed the idea that if there's immeasurable forces they're not actually relevant to us. If we were in a computer simulation and string theory was true, it doesn't really matter to us if they're represented in data as strings (ha) or something like floating point. Until there's a force (god) that interacts with that fact and then interacts with us. It's simply not a good position to start from because you allow everything imaginable to be potential realities.
This kind of discussion get very boring quickly to me because really all anyone can say is 'we don't know and will likely never' or 'that doesn't sound useful'.
>>26602465
>Christians thinking the Old Testament isn't still in play
Mathew 5:17
http://biblehub.com/matthew/5-17.htm
And
John 7:19
http://biblehub.com/john/7-19.htm
>following the Ten Commandments but not the rest of the Old Testament
Nice cherry picking your own religion, fag.
Checkmate atheists
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2z-OLG0KyR4
>>26602585
If you don't understand how the ten commandments are different from the 600 something laws in the OT you need to do some reading up on things and I won't hold your hand through that.
>>26602624
>WELL, you just don't understand!
>I won't hold your hand through actually explaining my point
Translation: I have no rebuttal so I'll just say my opposition doesn't understand and I won't explain why, unlike how someone with an actual argument would
>>26602624
Not him but what was the point of the old testament? Was God just going through an edgy phase?
Why would an omnipotent being behave in such a manner?
To me it just looks like run of the mill ancient mythology, no more believable than Greek or Norse mythology.
>>26602730
Christians dismiss the Old Testament even though Jesus said not to because it has extremist ideas and whatnot that wouldn't work in today's society or else Christians would look like Muslims and xenophobic, homophobic, Yada yada bigots and no one would be a Christian. So they dismiss the bad and cherry pick until Christianity is all about "love and peace" and it's become completely separated from the original doctrine.
Basically, it's like a rebranding of an old product. To look more acceptable they abandon old ideas that don't work today, even though that kinda completely destroys the point of the product.
>>26602374
>Deuteronomy 13:10
>Israel's civil law
>>26602362
Modern science is based on scientific consensus.
>Consensus is normally achieved through communication at conferences, the publication process, replication (reproducible results by others), and peer review.
One of the biggest criticism of any new study is if it hadn't been reproduced or peer reviewed.
Science includes prevailing paradigms, and methods, and instruments, and the gathering of observations.
>Science is a systematic enterprise that creates, builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions about the universe.
In order to create/build/organize knowledge you have to have work from a scientific paradigm which demarcates which observations are notable and which are not.
>>26602730
Old Testament and it's laws mainly concern God's Chosen people (aka the Jews) the reason it is part of the Bible today is because that is what Christianity was build upon - not because Christians must follow the 612 laws for the Jews in the OT.
Ten commandments and Seven Laws of Noah are different from these as they were meant (as already stated in the OT) to go for all men.
>>26600250
That pagan attitude you are talking about was always present in christianized europeans and was awakened through reading the pagan writings which could be found only because they were translated in Arabic by the Muslims, considering they were destroyed during early Christianity, and then it was more vitalized through Rennaissance.
>>26602837
Can you please stop talking when you seem so awfully uninformed on the whole issue?
>>26602860
Oh, so the parts in which Jesus says not to abolish the Old Testament is just a Jewish conspiracy, I guess.
>>26602585
>>26602860
In what passages does it say this, fampai?
>>26594781
So basically
You don't believe in Christian values
But you like being a nice guy
I don't get it
>>26594781
>christian
>"I don't believe in god and I don't believe in any of the stories in the bible"
That's not how it works, you literal mongoloid.
>>26602585
Christ literally replaced the Ten Commandments with "love one another."
He is also against stoning people to death.
>>26595196
I'm a positive nihilist
>>26602837
>So they dismiss the bad and cherry pick until Christianity is all about "love and peace" and it's become completely separated from the original doctrine.
What are you talking about?
Matthew 5:38-44
38 "You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. 42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you. 43 "You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Commandment
>The New Commandment of Jesus to "love one another" is part of the final instructions given to his disciples after the Last Supper had ended
>This commandment appears thirteen times in twelve verses in the New Testament
>Despite the name, the commandment is not technically "new". The commandment to love one another is found in Leviticus 19 18.
>Love your neighbor as yourself: I am the LORD.
>Leviticus 19:18
I mean, you could argue that Catholicism hasn't ever been all about "love and peace", but that's just one kind of Christianity (which the Romans made their state religion).
>>26603539
>positive nihilist
I'm a nihilist too but I honestly can't see anything positive about it. It's hard to find satisfaction in doing anything when it's clear that everything inherently remains meaningless. Fortunately the banalities of life keep me distracted and hopefully will keep me distracted until I die.
