there's no such thing as free will. you can't blame me for being like this.
Prove there isn't.
Protip, you won't.
>>26592576
Your parents were idiots and birthed an idiot.
Then you made this post.
>>26592524
>there's no such thing as free wifi
LOL
>>26592524
We can still hate you for being a wasted life even if we don't blame you.
>>26592524
Theoretically no. If we had enough information about each individual and how the human brain works we could theoretically work out how every person will act ahead of time and plan accordingly, but we don't have that information so even if your actions are predictable there's no practical difference between them being free or not.
>>26592524
If you don't believe in free will, then you can't make normative statements at all.
>you can't blame me for being like this
Then you can't blame me for blaming you.
>>26592524
>there's no such thing as free will
You have no good argument for this.
>>26592612
Well sure. That's your natural imperative. I won't blame you for that either.
>>26592631
everything. everything, is genetics and environment. Even the thoughts you think are your own and special are already pre influenced.
>>26592656
Based upon what evidence? Scientific conclusions are still out on the matter.
>>26592740
>Scientific conclusions are still out on the matter
Says who?
>>26592798
says CERN
>>26592524
Explain how someone cannot give a shit about anything. What kind of will is that ?
>>26592833
>scientists haven't discovered all the mysteries of the universe yet, so science can't tell us anything
Are you a philosophy major or are you really this stupid?
>>26592656
>everything is genetics and environment
>organisms are shaped by the world around them and the events they experience
No fucking shit you fucking idiot.
How does that prove there isn't free will.
No goddamn fucking shit my thoughts and feelings aren't special, i'm not the first human to live where i live or live in general.
I can still choose what to do with my life and how to spend my time.
>>26592524
It's true that you can't be blamed in a universal sense, and nor can anyone else be blamed for kicking your shit in.
>>26592740
Technically, science almost always leans towards determinism being impossible, what with uncertainty principle and the two slit experiment.
>>26592919
...and your choice is a result of countless factors which you have no control over.
>>26592910
It can tell us a lot of things, but one thing it can't currently tell us is whether or not free will exists.
I go 100% abstract philosophy and argue for free will, but I don't think you'd be able to keep up.
>>26592631
Free will would have to exist outside the laws of physics, but also be able to manipulate physical state. That sounds pretty hard to believe.
Also, if it exists outside of physics, how exactly would it be tied to one physical being in particular? Could you cut out a person's free will wIth a scalpel? A lobotomy can change an individual's behavior, is this removing a part of their will's control? It would take a really messy, complex model for free will to actually be free will. The simplest answer is that it's all physics and all follows the laws. But hey, you never know.
>>26592941
Uncertainty only exists at the quantum level. For example, unless new technology is created, there is a 100% chance you will die. I can say that because you're not an electron.
>>26593000
>implying choices proceed in a linear order and do not repeat
>implying imagination is deterministic
>>26593000
it's factors all the way down!
>>26592524
I cant blame you for being like that.
But I do blame you for continuing to be.
>>26593030
If the universe is completely deterministic then it means it will follow a cause and effect pattern which propagates throughout its entirety and determines every action.
This model offers no explanation for the first cause. Where did it come from?
Unexplained. Some order beyond that which we can currently perceive or measure. Perhaps this order has it's own rules, but in the end it will fall to the same question (why?).
This proceeds in an infinite pattern in any terms we can imagine. The only thing which can overcome this infinity is something which you have described
>Free will would have to exist outside the laws of physics, but also be able to manipulate physical state
This suggest at least one entity (best guess: your own mind) has free will and breaks "the rules". Others use it as a foundation for various religions.
Note: the simplest answer is not always the correct one
>>26592941
The philosophical idea of determinism goes beyond todays science. It is confident obstacles like the uncertainty principle will turn out to be predictable after all.
Usually I'm that guy giving out ''Just be yourself bro!!!'' advice.
1. Gym
2. Job
3. Hobbies
Etc
But this is always in the back of my mind.
We really don't have free will. Even as I'm typing this... someone elses brain may have just scrolled past and uttered ''what a lazy wanker'', but I chose to post. Something made me reply...
We don't know enough about the brain to know for sure, to be honest.
>>26593167
I'm not making a case for it being completely deterministic though. It can be non-deterministic while still following a set of laws, particularly with the multiverse model.
There doesn't need to be a cause or origin for existence as a whole if it exists in timeless, spaceless stasis. In that case the universe, as we experience it right now and in the next moment and the next, can have always existed and can continue to always exist. The question there is what our experience of it really is, but for a start it's feasible that our consciousness only experiences our "choices" after they've been made by the laws of physics, rather than, as our intuition tells us, the other way around.
>Note: the simplest answer is not always the correct one
True, but if a mechanism this complex even existed I would expect to have some more tangible, communicable evidence. The alternative seems a safer bet.
The really crazy thing is that fact that conciousness exists in the first place. Why should a series of complex chemical reactions lead to a self-aware being? I think it's the one thing that will never be explained by science because conciousness is basically the first person perspective and therefore it's not really something you can test.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAnlBW5INYg
