What is the point of being a vegetarian or a vegan? Even if you try your best to avoid animal products or ones tested on animals in the end you live in towns, cities, and get some good from factories. They all take up space and chance are that space was inhabited by various wildlife but due to people coming into such areas the animal habits have been turned into more human friendly places while displacing the animals that use to live there.
Are you doing anything to minimize this? I just don't understand, it seems like a fruitless battle.
>>26127792
Look at that nep
>>26127814
All the Neps are qts desu
Being a vegetarian or a vegan is a privilege only rich westerners can afford and goes against human nature
>>26127814
I wanna nep you up!
>>26127792
It's just another way for them to feel superior with minimal effort.
>>26127792
>What is the point of being a vegetarian or a vegan?
if you like animals :)
but do not want animals inside you
you should probbably be a vegetarian :)
but just know that even if there are no animals inside you
they are still going inside everyone else :)
Some people just don't like the taste of meat.
>>26127902
This tbqh, I always hated how meat tastes, but I still eat fish
>>26127902
>>26127917
>People
Sorry, you're classified as walking vaginas.
>>26127902
That is fair enough, I can get it if you don't like the taste or texture, I am sure there are some textures of foods from other cultures I haven't experienced and cannot stomach it.
>>26127792
There is no point.
It's a practice of ignorant, sheltered, and idealistic hippies
To save the world from merchants
http://aryanism.net/culture/veganism/
>>26127902
>>26127917
But you aren't making a conscious decision to avoid meat and animal products, you're just not eating something you don't like the taste of.
>>26127980
But how does paving an autobahn through the country side possibly displacing animals from their homes helping animals? Sure you aren't eating them, but you sure aren't helping them either, most of the times hurting them.
>>26128008
Read the article
It's just a bit gross to eat meat from an animal that's been raised just to kill it and I don't want to pay for it to happen.
It's kind of like anything else really, it's going to happen anyway, I'd rather just not be involved in the shit I don't like.
>>26128008
the agenda 21 movement is all about herding people into cities, reclaiming areas as wild, and instituting no-go corridors for facilitating freer movement for animals.
>>26128104
>herding people into cities
Sounds terrible. Might as well be a gigantic bee hive.
Simple way to have a healthier lifestyle.
I kept a healthy body weight when I was vegetarian, no aspartame, no sugar.
Thinking I was helping the poor fuzzy animals somehow was motivating, though now I know better.
>>26127856
>a privilege only rich westerners can afford
Like buying a lamborghini. So what?
>goes against human nature
As is having laws to prevent rape.
Your point?
>>26128145
Rape is the natural order, that is why women love to be dominated and like rough sex.
Not like they ever planned on having the father stay around anyway.
>>26128145
this is very nice post
>>26127814
You got me lookin'.
>>26128145
Laws against rape benefit the human race.
Making it harder to get proper nutrition becuase 'muh amnuls' is only detrimental to the human race.
>>26128330
Consider this.
Rape puts women in their place. A society without rape is one on a downward spiral.
>>26127980
what if you raise your own animals?
>>26128104
>animals should be as free as possible
>humans should live in judge dredd type cities instead
>>26128330
>Laws against rape benefit the human race.
You can argue that vegetarianism can benefit the environment and thus the human race. You can also argue that meat as we consume it is harmful as we eat too much of it and it's usually low quality, pumped full of antibiotics and growth hormone and stuff.
You can argue that they don't actually benefit the human race as a whole, just a few subcategories of the population.
>Making it harder to get proper nutrition becuase 'muh amnuls' is only detrimental to the human race.
But making it impossible for some to get proper sexual satisfaction because "muh feels" is not?
I don't actually give a fuck about any of that, I just dislike incoherent fedoric little shits like you.
>>26128406
Why do you think "rape" is so non-negotiable? You seem to think it's some ultimate taboo that has always been considered a terrible crime.
Up until recently if a woman was raped, she was considered a whore and stoned to death.
>>26128406
>You can argue that vegetarianism can benefit the environment and thus the human race.
It takes up more space to have enough fields to feed the entire world, destroying the animals habitat, and add to that the absolutely massive amounts of pesticides and herbicides that would have to be used to make sure nothing goes wrong with our only source of food.
And if we have 1 year of bad harvest, a lot of people go hungry.
>You can also argue that meat as we consume it is harmful as we eat too much of it and it's usually low quality
The dose makes the poison.
>pumped full of antibiotics and growth hormone and stuff.
Growth hormones are only used in dairy cows, so if you don't want them, just don't drink milk, and the only harm from the antibiotics is antibiotic resistance.
You can also hunt and kill it yourself.
As it is now, deer are majorly overpopulated because we destroy their habitat to make fields and suburbs, they have little food, and spread disease rampantly because of the close quarters.
Now imagine if they had even less space because of fields, and larger numbers because /nobody/ is hunting them anymore. Disease would be even more rampant because of even closer quarters, plus the health problems if they have to turn to eating things we're growing that aren't in their natural diet.
Now add all the animals we bread in captivity to this mix and they're all fucked because you thought you were helping them.
Anybody can go hunt and kill their own meat that is healthier than farm raised, and it actually helps the animals via population control, rather than veganism, which seeks to make them worse off by destroying their habitats.
In an ideal situation, we could abandon factory farming, and all the fields used to feed the factory farmed animals, and let the animals reclaim them, and everybody could hunt their own 100% organic meat for free.
Humans win, animals win, nature wins.
Tfw no vegan girlfriend to feed cookies too
{That are secretly non vegan)
>>26127856
Veganism is way more popular outside the West. Believe it or not, a heavily-subsidised, unnatural meat industry isn't that common in every country, and plant protein is universally cheaper than meat.
>>26127856
>Being a vegetarian or a vegan is a privilege only rich westerners can afford
Wrong
>goes against human nature
also wrong
>>26129153
What if I told you it goes against my preferences?
What if I told you there is no logical reason why animals should have rights beyond they suffer too
What if I told you most people eat meat for the right reasons but most vegans don't for the wrong
What if I told you you have no control over what other people eat
>>26129190
>What if I told you it goes against my preferences?
I don't know, what if you did?
>What if I told you there is no logical reason why animals should have rights beyond they suffer too?
Not sure what yo're trying to say here
>What if I told you most people eat meat for the right reasons but most vegans don't for the wrong
Explain
>What if I told you you have no control over what other people eat
No shit. This conversation wouldn't be taking place if he could control you or what you eat
>>26128991
It's more efficient to actually farm crops than farm animals in terms of the environmental impact of it. Additionally, in terms of beef in particular, cows are pretty bad for environmental reasons. Yeah, you get a bad year of harvest and it's harder to feed people, but you get a bad year of newly-borns and you starve then, too.
>>26129190
>What if I told you it goes against my preferences?
I'm sure they could say the same thing, and you ignored it.
>What if I told you there is no logical reason why animals should have rights beyond they suffer too
Capacity for suffering has been a huge reason for granting a being rights/protection, and isn't that easily glossed over.
>What if I told you most people eat meat for the right reasons but most vegans don't for the wrong
Then you'd need proof for that statement. And then you'd have to examine the reasons for meat-abstinence in countries outside of the west, which you're conveniently ignoring.
>What if I told you you have no control over what other people eat
That's blatant rationalization; you have control over what YOU eat though.
>>26129256
It's like saying tall people deserve free hats just because they are tall its arbitrary.rights were made for human, humans didn't get rights because they suffer. They get rights because they are equal.
I'm not equal to a cow
>>26127856
>>26127856
>only rich westerners can afford
like every poorfag in india is vegetarian, meat is expensive.
>>26127856
> Being a vegetarian or a vegan is a privilege only rich westerners
People in rich Western countries eat much more meat than people in 3rd world. Actually thinking that veganism is possible only for rich people means you're (by global standards) privileged and delusional. Vegetarian or vegan diet is cheaper than eating meat.
> and goes against human nature
Irrelevant dumb argument. Also computers and Internet are very unnatural things too, while violence and rape are natural.
>>26128991
> It takes up more space to have enough fields to feed the entire world, destroying the animals habitat, and add to that the absolutely massive amounts of pesticides and herbicides that would have to be used to make sure nothing goes wrong with our only source of food.
You're extremely ignorant and know no real info on topic. Animal products require more land to produce than crops. A lot of crops like most of corn and soybeans are fed to animals, so problems from crops (like pesticides) are bigger for animal products, because you need more crops to feed and raise an animals to eat than to eat directly.
>>26129390
>vegetarianism is cheaper than meat consumption
Sure if you are a filthy rice and beans neet
But most people like to eat outside from time to time or grab a quick lunch between office hours and vegetarian places are expensive and few one may not have the option to grab a meat free lunch in half an hour of pay those prices
>>26129334
Not eating them isn't the same as them having equal rights or even being considered equal to humans on a sentimental level.
The choice for you to boycott something based on your principles shouldn't be affected by whether or not they'll have an impact. It's a given that most people are going to make the choice that gives the most instant gratification.
>>26129477
But one doesn't get rights in varying degrees that's ridiculous
If I told you the only reason rights exist in the first place is because humans are equals so if we are equals to a cow then a cow deserves government housing and education. If we are not then animals deserving rights has no basis on reality
>>26129449
Cook your own lunches in advance then. In my experience, vegetarian restaurants are not expensive at all anyway.
This whole idea that somehow subtracting meat from a diet somehow makes it more expensive is fucking insane.
>>26129514
>But one doesn't get rights in varying degrees that's ridiculous
Historically that has definitely been the case, otherwise 'equal rights movements' wouldn't be a thing.
>>26129493
>it's about instant gratification
It's not tho it is about having and experiencing your freedoms in a world that does nothing but take them away
If we let them get to our meat or our guns what will come next?
We are not the first civilization with a democracy who thought that they knew everything about everything and couldn't be wrong and non of those stands today for a rrason
>>26129449
Just order the things you normally would from the places you normally go and tell them to hold the meat? It's not that hard. Chicken alfredo becomes alfredo, etc. Unless you're a burger-chugging idiot it's not that hard.
>>26129569
The meat production levels aren't sustainable for the planet, it has nothing to do with freedumbs. I am not a supporter of gun control either but that has more to do with misanthropy than liberalism.
>>26129552
So you are OK with some humans having less rights than others? What does it matters if historically some humans had less rights than others? We as a society exterminated that was wrong and made no logical sense so its irrelevant to the argument
How about you stop beating around the bush and tell me if the basis for human rights is equality (wich it is) then how can animals have rights too?
>subtracting meat from a diet makes it more expensive
Easy because supply and demand. People don't want to come home from work and cook tomorrow's lunch if that's what you propose then you are going to loose the people each and every time, meat is a great convenience it can be eaten warm or cold, its filling without having too many calories and it can remain cooked without rotting for a long time
>>26127792
>What is the point of being a vegetarian or a vegan?
Dying of organ failure while trying to convince everyone it's a good life style
>>26129579
Look at that peasent working class, those burger chugging idiots they are so busy that they sometimes have no time between working for anything but a sandwich I feel nothing but contempt for them
>just ask pasta without meat
Boy you don't get the working class at all do you? How about you come up with some sorth of vegan lunch I can acquire in any corner downtown and eat in five minutes without sitting while I wait for the bus?
>>26129514
Why your posts ITT are so ignorant? Yes, historically people got rights in varying degrees, full rights were only for white male rich people, not for all humans. Some people (slaves) had no rights at all. Equal rights appeared much later than human rights.
>>26129668
What is this personal investment you've made in meat? It's not drugs. If it's ample supply for everyone in America demands that it be fed GMOs and treated with ammonia or antibiotics, do you really insist that living comfortably is worth that price?
It's healthier to at least cut down, if everyone ate meat at levels that had restrictions on production levels, the way we manage populations in the wild, we would be saving money and dumping less animal shit into the oceans. Then the ocean could maybe replace it's fish.
>>26129668
Not him, but
>So you are OK with some humans having less rights than others?
That's entirely acceptable, if done right. Dangerous criminals shouldn't be granted the right to firearms, the mentally retarded shouldn't be granted the right to vote or drive on public on roads. Recognition of rights has never been a strict binary of 'all or nothing'.
>>26129668
>meat is a great convenience it can be eaten warm or cold, its filling without having too many calories and it can remain cooked without rotting for a long time
You literally just described vegetables.
>So you are OK with some humans having less rights than others? What does it matters if historically some humans had less rights than others? We as a society exterminated that was wrong and made no logical sense so its irrelevant to the argument
Of course I'm not OK with that. However, you are arguing that the basis for rights is equality, which is absolutely not the case if rights formally existed before equal rights did. You're suggesting that in order to justify giving Cows the right not to be killed for food we must also give them all other human rights, or it doesn't make sense. That's insane. Do you not see some rights as more fundamental than others?
>>26129730
Are you a supporter of slavery? Why even bring that up? Don't you get that's irrelevant to the topic?
People today get rights because they are equal
Animals get right because lol animals lmao
Suffering doesn't grant you rights unless the whole basis of rights is wrong
>>26129785
>the whole basis of rights is wrong
It kind of is bullshit.
>>26129754
Also children - they have many rights (mainly rights which protect them), but not all rights of adults.
>>26129668
>meat is a great convenience it can be eaten warm or cold, its filling without having too many calories and it can remain cooked without rotting for a long time
Almost nothing about that statement is true.
>great convenience
Only because somebody else went out and did all the work for you. Go hunting sometime or harvest your own chicken and see what you think.
>warm or cold
Only after your mommy cooked it for you.
>without rotting for a long time
The USDA would disagree with you. Salt-packed jerky products are literally the only exception.
>>26129762
No all rights are equal and equally important you can't take away a right without making a terrible injustice you can't also give rights to a non human just because they suffer without putting to question the nature of rights as a whole
>you just described vegetables
Maybe but meat can be bought prepared and ready to be eaten at any corner, can vegetables do this too?
>>26129816
Well, that's just immoral. Newborns should either get the vote or we should eat them.
>>26129845
>Maybe but meat can be bought prepared and ready to be eaten at any corner, can vegetables do this too?
I'm starting to question if we even live on the same planet.
>>26129845
All food can be bought prepared. You can buy beef jerky, dried vegetables or fucking goat vindaloo. Where are you going with this?
>>26129840
You haven't disproven any of my points
Also cold meats such as ham can remain eatable for at least a year and I consider 5 days that's the usual mark for a meat a long time
I'm a passionate meat-eater and even I think >>26129845 is incredibly retarded.
>>26129863
If I go right now to my local grocery shop there are cold chicken sandwiches, also ham and cheese sandwiches, salami, etc but no vegetarian meal in sight let alone vegan
>>26129880
You could not be more wrong. I hope you die of food poisoning.
http://www.foodsafety.gov/keep/charts/hamstoragechart.html
You should not keep it longer than 6 months, period.
>>26129901
Same with gas station, I could order the same sandwiches, I could order some nuggets or a burguer. I could order a salad that would include some vegetables and maybe even a little dressing but I can't have that everyday. I need protein and calories for my day to day life that salads alone can't offer I would need potatoes or cheese or something g heavy like that that is simply not in anyone's reach
>>26129901
Because eating meat is the status quo, it's production levels are kept high enough for retards who can't into things like meatless chili, vegetable soups, or chickpea salads to grab bread-and-cancer finger foods so they don't have to cook or think about anything.
Fact is people think not consuming disgusting amounts of animal protein is beneath them and they don't want to just come out and say they could give a shit about environmental sustainability, because life is short. Which would at least be honest.
>>26129937
Fair enough 6 months is more than anyone needs food to stand for I. The civilized world
>>26129953
>because its the status quo
I agree its the status quo and if it wasn't and everything I need could be ready in a timeframe that could accommodate my job and busy life I may try the non meat variable even if its just because I love variety but its not, its simply not and you are asking from people more than they can afford
>>26129949
>what is potato salad
>what is bean salad
>what is curry
>what are rice dishes
Take a genuine look around next time. You just haven't tried not eating meat, so of course vegetarian dishes are going to look "yucky" and unsatisfying to you. You're likely worse than those kids who won't eat anything except tendies because real chicken has bones eeeewwww
I love meat but you cannot seriously act like there aren't alternatives literally everywhere.
>>26129901
>>26129949
I highly doubt that. However, I am currently picturing you as a manchild who lives solely on convenience foods and has blinders on to anything that isn't meat. You can go and pick up some vegetables from that grocery shop, eat them raw and save some change if you're that opposed to cooking.
>>26129953
It's not even just that. It's subsidised to a ridiculous level to keep the price to the consumer down/keep demand high.
>Fact is people think not consuming disgusting amounts of animal protein is beneath them and they don't want to just come out and say they could give a shit about environmental sustainability, because life is short.
Absolutely this. I'm fine with people telling me meat is natural etc. even if I don't eat it, but the copious amounts they eat and the way retards like >>26129901 consume it absolutely is not.
>>26127792
Give me your finest neptunia hentai, folks.
>>26130016
If vegetarian food is unaffordable, it's because the food industry capitalizes on the people's good intentions while big murifat companies like McDonald's lobbies to maintain the production levels of meat. And people insist on continuing to eat it because vegetables aren't filling and don't act like literal drugs where meat and cheese has tryptophan and casein to get you through your workday.
>>26127956
>>26127956
milk contains cow pus, the ones who consume it and believe dairy to be healthy are the sheltered ones, ignorant to the fact that dairy companies only care about making a pretty penny off their gullibility
milk also increases mucus production and who would want that? no one intentionally desires that, most are just unaware the actual root of their health problems.
>>26130020
I love curry, not cold tho yuck
I like potatoes like everyone else, I like them in salads too and I like rice.
None of those things can be bought in the grocery store, gas station, McDonalds or most of the equivalent and can't be consumed without sitting in a table and without a knife and a fork and can't be consumed in 5 minutes while waiting for the bus or the train
I went to a Microsoft course once because my job paid for it and they bringed us lunch everyday for two weeks and I tried the cheese and mushrooms pie, it was delicious. If I could spare an hour to eat everyday and had that meal delivered to my office or even buying it as a possibility I would
>>26130032
So everyone who has no time for cooking and doesn't want to eat raw vegetables for every meal is a retard?
No wonder people do t like you you are co.pletely disconnected from reality
>>26130114
Every single one of those things can be bought at the grocery store. Where do you live? I live in the country and even my tiny podunk family grocery has everything on that list except curry.
>implying gas station and McDonalds food is for anybody but the most disgusting of poors
Sure, if you have to live off gas station and McDonalds food, but nobody does. My local gas station doesn't have food, and we don't have a McDonald's, so I know for a fact it's entirely possible for even a poor person like me to get through life without those things. You're stubborn and you eat the trash you enjoy and there's nothing wrong with that but just admit that you're really stretching.
Wrong. Unless you grow your own food living off a vegan diet can be incledible expensive. Vegan products tend to have a price 10x bigger than other food you'd normally buy. Where i come from meat is the cheapest food you can have access to. Also the argument that humans are by nature are violent and rapists has never been proven
>>26130145
It's not about "having no time for cooking"
Vegetarian food, while vegetables are cheap to produce, is racked up at most convenience stores to encourage people to sustain the meat industry. If marketable vegetarian food was cooked professionally by the same companies and served to people on the go, there would be no issue with meat.
>>26130145
You can get vegetarian and vegan convenience foods, too, you just don't look for them. If you can't find the 20-40 minutes a day you need to cook a meal or two (inc. the next day's lunch), but you're here shitposting on /r9k/ you're absolutely retarded.
>>26129262
>>26129390
Having only crops seems like a good idea in writing, but there's many things that would make it difficult, too many things to go wrong, and too many things that are out of our control for it to be reliable, and Hyper Oats are a long ways off.
Meat is in a similar position.
There's really no good way to feed as many people as we try to, and the population keeps going up, as does the amount of people reliant on big companies and factory farms for food.
All i really have left to say is i hope it doesn't catch up to us before we figure out a better way to feed everybody, if It's even possible.
>>26130193
Where do you come from, exactly, and do you have any sources to back that up? Unless you're talking about shitty fake foods for hipsters that are marketed as Vegan, I find this hard to believe.
>>26130114
> I like potatoes like everyone else
> None of those things can be bought in the grocery store, gas station, McDonalds
> without a knife and a fork
I don't visit McD, do modern McD has no fries?
>>26130191
Do you work downtown tho?
Of course your comfortable suburban life involves enough time for veganism that isn't the case for the rest of the world, millions of people eat at McDonalds, most of them don't even like it you are asking too much of the common man, even the rich are sometimes too busy to afford eating anything else
>>26130223
>All i really have left to say is i hope it doesn't catch up to us before we figure out a better way to feed everybody, if It's even possible.
Are you kidding? Look at how goddamn stupid this shitposting is. Of course it will catch up to us.
>>26130193
>>26129390
Forgot to include this
>>26130202
I have never seen ready to go vegetarian meals at the grocery store or anyone beyond a simple salad in any fast food joint.
Please illustrate me with examples
>>26130256
Find me a source that says there are people who live solely off McDonalds and similar shit, and that they do so involuntarily due to money and time constraints. You can easily eat a Vegan diet spending $20-40 a week, and spending 30 or so minutes cooking. Compare that to queueing and paying for three $5 McDonalds meals a day and tell me which comes out cheaper and easier.
>>26130246
You can't eat fries for every meal tho and to eat enough fries for a meal of fries alone would be really expensive since fries are expensive unless in a full meal
>>26130256
>asking too much for the common man
I am the common man. I am poor. Do you know what my dietary staple is? 12 bean soup. Available in every store in the grain aisle. $2 makes a pot that lasts me the entire week. I pack fresh veggies as a side. You could have gone to the store, came home, poured the beans into some water, and they'd be halfway done in the time you've sat here arguing.
If you have time to go to McDonald's you have time to pick up a few vegetarian staple foods and pack them in a container before you go to work. Are you literally homeless?
>>26130294
No, stop pretending like you're not 2/3 brain dead for one minute and read the words.
The vegetarian items that either aren't on the menu or not affordable are such, because the fast food companies are the ones who benefit from you eating soy-fed, antibiotic resistant tissue. Your incompetence is contributing to everything wrong in this world.
>>26130262
Well I've got land, know how to garden, and hunt, so good luck everybody else, i hope you faggots starve.
>>26130294
>what is potato salad
>what is bean salad
And millions of people go without fast food. Why does anyone even bring it up? I've had to live on fast food before and it was extremely, extremely, extremely expensive to do so even with 89 cent burritos at Taco Bell.
>>26130309
I didn't claim that there are people who eat McDonalds only for every meal, they are tho and its incredibly unhealthy
I claim that there are people who only have time for fast food during work hours
People love McDonalds because you can have a meal for cheap ready in five minutes and a bathroom to use after
It's a reality that people need that in today's world. There is subway and that's the only alternative I know but each and every of their daily subs wich costs half the price has some sorth of meat inside Me paying full price for a sandwich with just a tiny bit if cheese is ridiculous when you could have 3 meats too instead
>>26130363
Back atcha, hope your crops get eaten by nuclear apocalypse mutant rabbits etc.
>>26130294
>I have never seen ready to go vegetarian meals at the grocery store or anyone beyond a simple salad in any fast food joint.
You don't see a lot of things, apparently
>hash browns
>oatmeal
>fruit and yogurt parfait
>literally any burger or sandwich ordered w/o meat
>Any wrap ordered w/o meat
>Egg based meals (if you're looser about vegetarianism)
And that's just McDonalds. This isn't even counting the most ubiquitous fast food chain on earth: SUBWAY.
Vegetarian food is readily available. And in grocery stores, the net cost is actually much less. I eat meat daily, but your argument doesn't hold water.
>>26130337
Sorry boss I can't have that urgent meeting I have to go home wich is an hour long commute and cook some beans instead
>>26130294
Taco Bell
>bean burrito
Burger King
>salad is honestly fine just don't eat at burger king every day you retard
Arby's
>delicious baked potato
>>26130391
>I claim that there are people who only have time for fast food during work hours
Sure, I'm willing to bet most people only have time for fast food during work hours, if they don't come prepared. That's why people bring their own lunches in. I just cook lunches in bulk for the week (takes about half an hour), freeze them and defrost them when required. Eating McDonalds in your lunchbreak is a choice not a necessity.
>>26130353
And I agree, what do you propose I do? Go to McDonalds and demand d lentils soup? You have proposed no solutions, only complained you may aswell be occupying wall street right jow
>>26130420
Alert everybody, the retarded tendie fan is actually just a troll if he doesn't understand the concept of spending 20 minutes on a sunday for the benefit of having delicious food available for the rest of the goddamn week.
You could be cooking the beans RIGHT NOW while you're sitting here shitposting. I know people who work 80 hour weeks and they still find time to make lunch to bring to work.
>>26127792
So just because you can't completely avoid all animal suffering you should continue paying people to pretty much torture animals for some pleasure?
Sure maybe you hunt or know some small time good old fashioned farmer or buy super expensive meat but if you buy anything non-expensive from a normal restaurant chain or supermarket (this is almost all meat) those animals had absolutely shit conditions.
>>26130417
Half those things are only breakfast items the other half are not enough for a meal you are left with eating yogurth for every meal that's a big sacrifice for something that shouldn't have rights I. The first place
>>26129449
Yeah some hipster shit is more expensive but in general vegetarian is cheaper.
>>26130445
You are assuming most people have access to a microwave everyday and a place to store food. I had days were I didn't spend more than 15 minutes at the office, most people do
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcnH_TOqi3I
>we should be nice to animals
>>26130459
I propose you at the very least stop attributing your consumption of meat to some sort of moral high ground where you having a shitty time-consuming job justifies it. Like you're some kind of martyr for being too dense to boil some eggs while you shitpost.
>>26130501
So how fat are you? Asking for a friend
>>26130469
I cooked cookies, they are posted in this thread, I also made meatballs yesterday and have half of the meat ready for another batch today
>>26130016
Only very few people go out and buy single portions of finished food every time they eat anything.
Most food is made at home and that could easily be vegetarian.
>>26130540
It's not a moral high ground its reality
You people can't think if its not in terms of politics can you?
>>26130537
Do we eat baboons? No we don't.
Also baboons are apes, apes are dickheads, that's why you're defending the torture of innocent ego-less creatures for no fucking reason.
>>26130532
You just outed yourself as being a true robot who has never been employed. It's called a lunchbox and ice pack. Most things taste just fine cold and I do it all the time by choice just because it's better than getting fat on burger king.
>>26130501
>breakfast
Good thing that they implemented an all day breakfast!
>the other half are not enough for a meal
untrue
>that's a big sacrifice for something that shouldn't have rights
Yeah, not being able to go to your precious McBurgers is such a deprivation. Let's just ignore the wealth of cheaper and easier vegetarian options everywhere else.
And you've still failed to explain why they shouldn't be granted a basic set of rights in the first place.
>"I don't see any ready to go veggie meals"
>gets them pointed out
>"Well, I really don't like those"
weak troll is weak
>>26130420
You are an extreme case, not the common man.
>>26130576
I'd say the same about you, you still act as if your job is supposed to factor into your values. Or you would if you weren't a master baiter.
>>26130563
Then you're saying you could easily make lunch at home and bring it into work? Thanks for finally admitting it.
>>26130532
Bring something that doesn't need to be frozen and reheated then. Most vegetables apply.
>>26130532
>You are assuming most people have access to a microwave everyday and a place to store food.
Everyone doesn't have it but very many do.
>>26130589
>no fucking reason
They're delicious though.
>>26130567
Only few people buy already made food for every meal
Agree
Most meals are made at home
Do but it, depends on what you consider made at home
Also most people have the necessity to eat meat at least 4 times a day not because meats content but because time constraints
>>26130630
This anon is drunk
>>26130630
>Also most people have the necessity to eat meat at least 4 times a day not because meats content but because time constraints
You've gone from devil's advocate, to troll, to mildly retarded over the course of this thread. I'd suggest leaving it here.
>>26130622
You can kill something without torturing it, makes the meat even more delicious. But everyone on the planet can't have meat unless the animals are forced to live in nightmarish conditions. So pick one, reduce animal agriculture or reduce the human population.
No contest for me because I'll off 1/4 of people all over the world for some cheap grass fed chicken francaise.
>>26130594
I had two jobs
The first job was comfy 4 blocks away from my home and I couldn't eat vegetarian because my boss took everyone in the office (yes those 3 to 5 people) to eat lunch everyday at the small joint a block away and we all ordered the menu because we really couldn't afford to spend too much time waiting for something special to be made and because it was cheaper
The menu always included meat
Second job was so busy that I barely had 15minutes to eat (the days I could afford to)
It's about minimizing the amount of suffering you cause, it's about being the healthiest version of yourself, and it's about helping the environment in a big way.
>>26130704
Anything more specific about the nature of your work?
>>26130597
Is mayo, a little tiny bit of cheese and a bun enough for a meal?
>>26130689
That's not true, there's a third option
You could leave everything the way it is and watch the world burn.
>>26130704
Not that guy, but every problem you posited would be solved by preparing packed lunches ahead of time.
>>26130726
Muh jerb muh freedumbs
>>26130597
You can't survive out of hush browns, fries and yogurth everyday
>>26130744
I'd still take the second if I could. Step up your game edgemaster.
>>26130609
Most people wouldn't quit a job because they aren't comfortable with the diet they have there
Most jobs demand you to live like this anyways
>>26130622
Would you pay someone to flay a cat to listen to the awesome sounds it made?
>>26130767
You can't survive on McBurgers every day either, at least not for long.
>>26130613
Not really, I'm currently unemployed
>>26130726
>It's about minimizing the amount of suffering you cause
What's the point?
>it's about being the healthiest version of yourself
The most efficient way of being healthy is to eat meat in moderation
>and it's about helping the environment in a big way.
One person not eating 1/2400th of a cow every once in a while isn't going to change anything
>>26130785
No one is discussing what your job demands of you really. This is more about asceticism and principles that extend beyond "well I gotta pay the bills"
Again just admit that your comfortable normshit life is the most important thing to you and you don't care about anything else.
>>26130630
I meant a week
Es I know I screwed up
I had to reply to 8 posts
Yeah I know retarded blah blah blah
>>26130832
>The most efficient way of being healthy is to eat meat in moderation
Why? Supplementing B12 is easier than eating meat, and plant protein is readily available.
>>26130731
3 of those comes around to 600-700 kcal, so yes, it is enough for a square meal. Now you're going to argue nutritional content, conveniently ignoring how horrid most of the meat based meal in Mcdonalds are in that regard.
>>26130767
You can't feasibly 'survive' off of McDonald's meat based menu everyday, period. With oatmeal and yogurt there's some feasibility, but you're getting btfo with Metabolic Syndrome and the like much faster when you're adding meat to the mix.
>>26130774
Yeah, sure you would.
>>26130728
First job was it
Second job I had to deliver legal documents and have them signed in different government offices. There were 6 more people doing the same job at the office, there are tons of people employed doing that downtown
No I couldn't bring a lunch box with me tgere
>>26130877
>3 of those comes around to 600-700 kcal,
What? A mcdouble is like 600 cal alone.
And no one mention whether or not they get one-bun burgers at mcdonalds. I don't even want to know you exist.
>>26130910
A mcdouble is closer to 400 actually
>>26130832
>what's the point?
The point is that I think that it's a bit fucked up to raise something for the purpose of slaughtering it. Especially animals like pigs who show dog-like qualities of compassion towards humans.
>eat meat in moderation
The whole meat is healthy meme has to die. Read the China study or some of the most recent studies on meat.
>you aren't doing much
I don't care, if I can be an example of health and get at least one person to become vegan, I have done my job.
>>26130852
Most people can't afford to loose their job. If your movement wasnt made entirely of rich or middle-class students and neets it would be of homeless people who lost their job and livelihood then
It's OK for someone with a comfortable life to do this, it isn't a possibility for anyone else tho
>>26130905
Lol manual labour probably would have fit your tale a little better.
>No I couldn't bring a lunch box with me tgere
Why?
>>26130875
Why not just mix protein powder, olive oil, flour, and all your vitamins and drink that for the rest of your life?
You get all your micro and macro nutrients and It's much easier than eating real food.
>>26130877
Most of that calories are the patty and you would feel like you are starving if all you are was a pattyless burger not to mention you would have to pay it 3 times for one meal
>>26131032
Why not? You're the one positing efficient healthy eating as the most important form of healthy eating.
>>26131032
There are these things called calories that are quite useful
>>26130996
Again it's because the food made available to the poor working class happens to be meat. Dependence on meat production and fossil fuels is a part of our infrastructure and no one wants to acknowledge that this needs to change.
The "rich middle class" students might be hypocrites in some regards but to argue against progress being made to wean people off meat is just senseless.
>>26131005
Sorry I'm an honest person, I can't lie as well as you
I had to walk into military buildings looking professional most times in a suit and talk with important people
If I bringed a Winnie the poo lunch box I would have gotten fired
And at my it job I was supposed to eat with everyone else
>>26130995
>The point is that I think that it's a bit fucked up to raise something for the purpose of slaughtering it.
And? Humans come before animals.
>The whole meat is healthy meme has to die. Read the China study or some of the most recent studies on meat.
Nah.
Meat is the whole reason humans have made it to where we are, i'd rather not give all that up because i can't contain my bleeding heart.
>I don't care, if I can be an example of health and get at least one person to become vegan, I have done my job.
Yeah, good luck with that.
>>26131097
I'm sure McDonalds fit the professional image much more than a packed lunch.
>>26131088
Then you have to change the infrastructure and not the people don't you agree?
People in this are just victims or innocent bystanders who can't afford anything different
>>26131047
>most of the calories are the patty
The patty is just shy of 200 kcal (~180)
>you would feel like you are starving
not really, no. My mom's and male cousins are cultural vegetarians, and this got them by through some lean times. It's not comfortable for you, but you're not arguing comfort.
>you would have to pay it 3 times for one meal
Like the average Amerifat actually eats just one value burger at Mcdonalds for a meal
>>26131106
>Meat is the whole reason humans have made it to where we are, i'd rather not give all that up
You think humans will regress if we stop eating meat? Have any proof for that?
>inb4 B12 or anything easily supplemented
>>26131106
>humans come before animals
Congrats on supporting a system that uses grain and water that could feed starving children, but instead I've it to animals that don't need to exist
>>26131114
I could eat a big mc in between buses tho and take a shit too I didn't have to carry my burger with me to my 9 am meeting
>>26131125
Most people do, most people go there for the value meal
>>26131106
>Meat is the whole reason humans have made it to where we are
No, we are omnivorous, apes mainly eat fruits. We are 'here' whatever the fuck you call it, because of ingenuity, we discovered fire, invented the wheel, etc. Meat is one of the things we ate to sustain our small populations in harsh conditions. Now we have an obesity crisis because people eat tonnes of meat while sitting in office chairs shitposting and complaining how they can't make their life count in any meaningful way.
>>26131097
What could possibly be more professional than taking care of your body and eating a nourishing meal that your loving wife packed for you?
Btw, real honest-to-god professional people generally go and take lunch at a nice sit-down restaurant. I know you're not a professional or you would know this. If you have less than an hour and a half for lunch, you don't have a good job.
>>26130309
Look up the term food desert and you will find tons of real research
This is if you really wanted to know and not just win an argument lol
>>26131171
>you don't have a good job.
>w-well what am I subost to do??
Whatever you do, don't just fucking acknowledge your shitty country is shitty.
>>26131171
I had to look professional tho even if it was just a shitty gig it was explicitly demanded of me
>>26131144
You already admitted you were unemployed so fuck off. You also said you were expected to eat together with your coworkers, and I've never in my entire life seen a work group sit down to eat at McDonalds.
I'm not a robot. I have a nice job and I know what people with nice jobs eat. They go to a tasteful restaurant and sit down, or they bring their food from home because they have well-balanced lives. Any decent work environment has a microwave, a fridge, sometimes even a stove.
>>26131163
>most people go there for the value meal
And ending up buying multiple value burgers/sandwiches.
The working class obesity epidemic pretty much guarantees that as a fact. If they were all eating just one value sandwich/burger per meal, it'd be impossible for the sort of caloric excess necessary for that weight gain to exist. The math does not add up. People ARE buying more than on value burger/sandwich.
Unless you're counting the combo meal, which in itself satisfies the calorie requirement.
>>26131171
I said something very important that you choose to ignore
If people have no choice but to eat meat while working and also when arriving late from work then the problem is not the people but the infrastructure on which people has to work
Yet the movement is mostly based on changing people perception which is pointless to do since they don't have a choice
>>26131185
Fair enough. This is probably a good time to point out I'm not actually American.
>>26131170
We're 'here' because we discovered fire, and used it to cook meat, which greatly sped up our evolution.
Le Google it you fucking faggot
>>26131215
I'm not a robot either
And you have a nice job
But are also retarded
You think most people have nice jobs
If you only care about mommy and daddy changing their diets then go ahead be stupid, vapid and pretentious to your heart content
If you want to make a real change tho you have to help normal regular people not despise them
But you don't tho
>>26131225
No, most people go for the value meal
I'm convinced you have never been to a downtown McDonalds during busy hours
I'm convinced you have never been downtown at all too
Most people can't afford to have anything but the value meal because they have to buy it 4 times a day
And honestly they are more likely to buy it 8 because they are tired
I'm sorry your parents have never allowed you to be tired or to experience having to cut down on expenses
>>26131236
>they don't have a choice
They do, they just need to sacrifice things they feel entitled to and surrender themselves to their own concept of a greater good.
Again if that's not your thing just admit it. To say you don't have the option is only a way to relieve yourself of guilt when you can just not be guilty.
>>26131315
Be as dismissive as you want, already mentioned that
>the combo meal, which in itself satisfies the calorie requirement.
You're still wrong even if a person buys a single value combo for a meal.
>>26131170
>>26131256
http://www.npr.org/2010/08/02/128849908/food-for-thought-meat-based-diet-made-us-smarter
>>26131340
They only feel entitled to it because they bust their ass to get it everyday
And no, I have established they don't have the choice because such choice does not exist
Until you create you own vegetarian franchise wich can offer fulling meals in 5 minutes for a big macs price then people are going to eat meat
>shitposters assume the only option for poor people is shit-tier fast food
>completely ignores all the vegetarian options
>completely ignores home-cooked vegetarian meals that are several times cheaper than daily fast food consumption
>"S-see? This is why we can ONLY eat meat!"
>shitposters smugly declare victory
sounds about right.
>>26131353
Honestly who cares its nutritional value its a meal you can have in 5 minutes for dirt cheap its a necessity that's why there is a McDonalds in every corner
People need to eat to feel full for their had stressing day and their enormous workload they can't work while feeling starved, no they can't literally work while feeling like this some even would pass out if their job is phisycal
People don't have the time to eat, they have the time for McDonalds
You never experienced real life but it is like this
>>26131456
ITT rich people and poor neets think they know what most of the world does everyday at work
>>26131476
>b-but i'll feel starved
Again, that's untrue, and if you want to contest it, you're basically shifting the argument from your initial position of necessity to one of comfort. Woudn't be the first time you shifted goalposts.
>You never experienced real life but it is like this
No, this is largely a fiction you created that only exists in some urban areas of the United States. And even then, you can live off of a vegetarian diet of staples, with much more satiety, for a fraction of the cost of eating at McBurgers daily.
You sound like someone who hasn't ever left the U.S, seen actual poverty, and can't see food options beyond his local fast food chain.
>>26131340
Why do you hate poor hardworking people? Why do you want to take away the little semblance of convenience in their entire life?
How could a person like you consider himself symphatethic?
If you truly care about animals let alone people you would campaign for a realistic vegetarian meal in every McDonalds instead of bothering poor bob in his construction job
>>26131555
Because now I see things from what they truly are
This is a class thing, its the rich intruding in the poor's life and demanding things they can't possibly do
Because the rich are better smarter and prettier that's why they are rich
And like the pretty smart and beautiful people they are they will regulate the poor's lives for them
I'm a veg and I dont give a shit about animals. I just think meat is gross
>>26131584
>McDonalds is the only fast food place!
You do know subway exists, right? And in greater numbers than McDonalds?
but, knowing you, you're just going to double down on the delusion that the only affordable meals are meat-based
>>26130363
serial experiments lain?someone has good taste
>>26131663
I already posted about how a sandwich with 3 meats is half the cost than a cheese only sandwich because all the day subs are half off
>>26131644
>now it's a classist thing!
Yep, shifted goalposts, again.
To save money is in the poor's best interests. A vegetarian lifestyle is demonstrably cheaper and more efficient than one that involved meat consumption. You have tried arguing this point to the point of blatant shitposting, and have failed miserably.
>>26131698
That's just completely false.
>>26131644
Who do you think's really benefiting from your McDonalds diet?
>>26131706
>but I work a nice job and people with nice jobs eat at restaurants :)
Not like those subhumans working class scum who only exist to eat cute cows
Lol no you outed yourself and your true motives
I bet you look down on more and for feeding their children cute kitty's so they won't die too
>>26127988
So they are vegetarians. What is your point?
>>26131767
Yeah no the rich people who think they can control poor people are the most retarded I'm sure you don't own McDonalds stocks so you don't really care
>>26131807
The rich people who own McDonalds are literally controlling you, not trying to.
>>26128991
>It takes up more space to have enough fields to feed the entire world
How do you think we feed animals?
>You can also hunt and kill it yourself.
You do realize most people get their meat from the supermarket? And that that is the real problem?
>>26131774
>Not like those subhumans working class scum who only exist to eat cute cows
strawman some more you're still wrong.
>Lol no you outed yourself and your true motives
Not really, you're just refusing to address a statement you know you have no ground against, moving instead to vague accusations of classism and poor people hate.
>>26129334
>It's like saying tall people deserve free hats just because they are tall its arbitrary.
So here's a question about arbitrary decisions, why isn't dog or cat meat consumed in the west whilst cow and pig are? I mean, we are wasting a decent source of protein here.
>rights were made for human, humans didn't get rights because they suffer. They get rights because they are equal.
>I'm not equal to a cow
Don't want to be that guy but I'm pretty sure back in the slave trading days someone said the exact same thing.
>>26131873
You are refusing to understand most of the world's situation and put yourself in their place
I begun telling you meat is a convenience you agree
Most people rely on this convenience for their daily life
What you are proposing is for people to come home tired after a 12 hour shift and cook the next days meal and find a way to heat it even if they don't have the tools space or time or to spend 3 times as much as their would or can afford to eating mealess burgers
People will never submit to this, you personally wouldn't either if eating in nice restaurants wasn't a choice
You could try to make better food more available for poor people or get them a decent time to eat
Instead you choose to fuck with them
Last time this happened tho it wasn't nice, remember not to tell them to eat cake
We live in the most classsist society in 200 years
Yes it's a problem, a big one and anyone smart can see it. It's bigger than animal rights, inclusion and all this shit
>>26132014
>I begun telling you meat is a convenience you agree
No you didn't. You began by completely discounting the availability of vegetarian diets in the modern, working class environment. After being disproven on that, you then shifted to it not being feasible. After, that you then shifted to vague heuristics of comfort and threw accusations of classism. You have been anything but consistent, and have been constantly adjusting the parameters of your argument.
>>26131867
>>It takes up more space to have enough fields to feed the entire world
>How do you think we feed animals?
How do you think shut the fuck up?
>>You can also hunt and kill it yourself.
>You do realize most people get their meat from the supermarket? And that that is the real problem?
ur the real problem
Anyone else feel like eating meat is a cult? Every time someone discovers that I'm a vegetarian they invariably have the same reaction "I couldn't live without my meat!" but whenever they see my lunch or I cook for some friends everyone always praises me on the dishes.
>>26127792
Indeed, there's no escaping the fact that our very existence is causing massive damage to the Earth.
