hello, /r9k/. I notice this board is very anti-work. as a socialist, I believe I have some answers for you. So many people have bought into the cold-war propaganda: "Socialists is a godless system where the government owns everything and you're expected to work hard for no reward". This couldn't be further from the truth. as Socialists, we are interested in a system where everyone is properly rewarded for their work, and is free to reach their full potential. so please, ask any questions you like.
>>25325552
fuck off back to pol blox
>>25325552
> NEET communist revolution
As a Swede: this could work. But murrican NEETs are all about muh freedoms so maybe not.
fuck right off commie
>>25325552
Is everyone rewarded the same or is there a benefit to working harder than the rest? If I work 100 hours a week will I be payed the same as one that works 20?
>>25325769
you're talking about wages in terms of rewards and compensations. Wages hardly even accomodate this within the current system. How many people today are paid a flat, hourly rate, rather than as a measure of how productive they are?
the System of wages is inherently exploitative. absolutely, if you're more productive, you should be richer for it. Within socialism, people are entitled to the full value of the work they do. not only will you benefit from working more, you will be working to fulfill your own needs, and live your own ambitions, rather than the profit needs of parasites in today's society.
>>25325552
Since socialism doesn't require anybody to work, does that mean I'll be able to masturbate and watch anime all day?
>>25325552
>be me
>ruler of new land
>tendies and gfs distributed based on meeting production quotas
>no additional reward for over production
>hard punishment for over consumption
>citizens assigned work based on skill
>>25325991
you'll have to work to satisfy your own needs, which requires a lot less work than it does currently, assuming you live in the first world, or rely on charity.
Now, if we can achieve communism and full automation, which will take many years, then yes, you will not have to work at all.
>work
you came to the wrong place
>>25326130
Literal manchildren will not find a comfortable home within socialism, or any realistic system for that matter. however, beneath the excessive meming, anti-work posts reveal a genuine economic frustration. When we observe such depressing alienation, men have a right to be lazy.
>>25326062
r the tendies from wendies tho
>>25326284
brother anon we would have TEAMS of people devoted to tendies perfection.
literal tendies engineers and scientists.
>>25325991
Right-wing reactionaries will ban anime.
Communism will make anime real.
Is a brain surgeon as "rewarded" as a peasant that tills the fields OP you fucking lazy cunt? What is wrong with people being paid based on what they earn?
>>25325588
NEETs are useless mate. If there was a socialist revolution they would be ground up for food.
>>25326345
people are paid on what they earn. this is a tautology, I can't make much of your question. I want anyone who can be a brain surgeon to be rewarded with the full value of their labor, which Is most assuredly many times more than the most industrious peasant, which is a class that hardly exists anymore.
>>25325879
>Within socialism, people are entitled to the full value of the work they do.
When has that ever been true you colossal dickhead?
>>25326332
But I don't wanna anime to be real. Real sucks. If anime were real it would suck. Like work and money.
>>25326395
How do you determine the value of goods and labor?
We could have a system where we try to assign numbers to the utility of each relative to the others. But we'd need some way to exchange them, move them around. We could use paper slips I guess?
If a lot of people got together and started doing this, I bet we could figure out the utility really quickly.
This is a great idea, OP. This will be very efficient I'm now a socialist.
>>25326410
Socialism is already a reality for the Millions of people currently employed in worker co-ops.
>>25326395
So if I'm a brain surgeon I can earn more money than a peasant? I can live in a nicer house and eat nicer food? Sounds like capitalism.
>>25326467
Good for them. It works as a tiny sub-set of a capitalist society. Can you run a country like that? Ask Mao.
>>25325552
Why did every combloc country turn into a shithole, or accept western capitalism?
>>25326459
There is nothing incompatible with Market Economies and socialism. While markets can and do become a destructive force at some times (Planned obsolence, cynical safety measures, envirornmental destruction), I find it difficult to immagine a system based on central planning and utility, since this task is monumental. Price and Currency are very useful tools, and until AI lends us superior intelligence, I think Market Socialism is the only realistic alternative.
at any rate, the diffusal of ownership will atleast lessen these forces. the 3000 workers who need to live near their factory will care more about the air quality and safety of the instruments they all use than the board of directors who live in Miami
>>25326472
Socialism does sound a lot like the cold-war Propaganda version of Capitalism. I find it fascinating how so many die-hard capitalists will unknowingly make arguments for socialism in their demands "is a man not entitled to the sweat on his brow!".
you need to realize that the version of Socialism the media has fed you is a lie! Socialism means empowering the working class.
>>25326589
>will care more about the air quality and safety of the instruments they all use
But don't they all ready care more? They have labor unions.
It's also not as if the people that work in the factory are capable of building or maintaining the machinery there. Do they technicians and engineers also have to care as much?
>>25326569
extreme external pressure, and fucking awful economies due to under-development and war.
also, in most cases the parties that took over were vanguardist assholes who detested worker empowerment. they should be rewarded, as the historically were, as ring wing off-shoots of a broader socialist movement.
>>25326589
You dopey bastard. The negatives that you list for the free market are false. The free market means that those companies that offer a service free of the things you've listed will prosper whereas others will not. We already have NIMBYs so I don't think socialism is necessary for taking care of things like air quality.
I think you're underage or American. Which is it?
>>25326643
Again, I can't attest to it being perfect, it's atleast no worse than capitalism. Technicians and engineers though are quite driven, and I believe they want to produce good products. it's shitty bosses and directors that tell them to make shitty tools to sell more volume at better margins.
by Instruments though, I was referring to what they produce. I don't think assembaly line workers would be willing to sell dangerously defective cars to their family members and their community, even if it meant making $100 more per year.
>>25326635
>Socialism does sound a lot like the cold-war Propaganda version of Capitalism.
People getting paid an adequate wage for their work is capitalism mate, not socialism. I can't be bothered to post this as a reply to all your posts.
>>25326707
you have an extremely limited backgrounds if you can't realize, or even know of times where market forces are contrary to what we regard as "good". the Auto-industry, carefully weighing whether safety concerns would be more expensive to address than the accidents that they result in, is a classic example. While the ford Pinto's fuel tank is a classic example, it continues today with the recent GM ignition issue.
>>25326685
Name me one country that has implemented socialism that hasn't suffered from under-development (as you call it) or war.
>>25326802
Seriously. go educate yourself. I know this is so often a throw-away answer, but you're saying things literally the first sentence of the wikipedia article on capitalism, (or a decent economics textbook), would dispel.
nothing at all says Capitalism has to give you a fair wage though. wages are simply a function of supply and demand. Capitalism is a system of private property, where a wages are used to stimulate labor, the gap between the value that laborers produce, and the wages they are paid, is effectively stolen by the bourgeoisie.
"adequate" wages are only possible within self-employment, or socialism.
>>25326808
>realize
Thanks for answering my question.
You've not offered any kind of credible response to anything I've put to you in this thread. Your version of socialism is a mix between entirely unworkable and capitalism.
I'm going to have kip now but you keep going comrade. Once you've warmed up you can take this shit to /pol/. They will tear you a new arsehole.
>>25326749
>I don't think assembaly line workers would be willing to sell dangerously defective cars to their family members and their community, even if it meant making $100 more per year.
I would lean toward disagreement. It's anecdotal, but I worked part-time in a factory for one of my jobs for two years, and because I wasn't union, we ended up picking up the slack of people that had been there for 20 years.
On my line, working graveyard, with _half_ the people, we would produce more units with fewer defects than the full day crew of union employees. And there was nothing difficult about it. No, there will always be complacency. I'm mostly convinced that factory workers don't give a shit about what they produce.
>>25326908
Define fair.
You could argue that the value of labor is determined by the market, in which case capitalism is extremely fair. Wherein socialism the value of labor is arbitrarily determined by the state.
>>25326908
We have different definitions of fair. Mine is a reasonable wage based on supply and demand. Not sure what yours is based on. Don't patronise me.
>>25326919
>Dude outright tells you when market forces killed motorists
>You've not offered any kind of credible response to anything I've put to you in this thread
are you a real person?
>>25326925
Unions are utter cunts. If you let them do what they want then you end up like the UK. Tube drivers should not be able to hold the capital hostage because they want an extra 20 quid a month.
>>25325991
You'll be sent to a special work camp in Siberia.
>>25326833
not him, but begging for examples shows a severe lack of understanding of the issues. 1000 years ago you could say the same thing about democracy, and point to the fall of the Roman republic, or the populism of Greece.
in the 16th century, yould could say the same thing about peasant emancipation. these ideas were thousands of years old before they became ennacted sucessfully in the 19th century. Communism was only dreamt of in the industrial revolution, it's still an experiment worth having
(I'm not a socialist btw, European Nationalist)
you will never beat capitalism
>>25326966
Still waiting on citations. I realise this is anecdotal but I've worked in motor claims for the last ten years and I'm not aware of a single death from a vehicle fault, one of the main negatives of your example of a free market car industry.
>>25327102
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_ignition_switch_scandal
paid compensation for 124 deaths. 0.8 seconds in google for GM ignition recall.
>>25327031
>admitting you have no examples
>it's never been tried bluh bluh bluh
Hilarious. Like I said, take this shit to /pol/ and they will utterly destroy you. I'm being nice.
>>25327130
Murica lol
A degree of regulation is necessary however can you honestly say that the company that puts profit over safety / product quality will truly triumph over a company that looks after it's customers. I'm still trying to understand why we need socialism.
>Hi anon, the local worker's council has allocated me as your property. Would you like to inspect my Hymen before you sign for me?
>>25326467
Those are voluntary, and not anti-capitalist in the slightest.
Any socialist state would seize their assets and workers and roll them into the government kleptocracy.
>>25325552
>as a socialist
stopped reading there lol
