Why don't you become an online poker professional? The lifestyle is pretty comparable to NEET lifestyle and being a autist is actually an advantage in this field.
Pic related, its my results for this year
risky profession with more losers than winners
>>25120513
>more losers than winners
absolutely the case. However, I'm assuming most here are shut-in tards like myself and have the time to study poker theory, if they felt like it. All of the money to be made in online poker comes from drunken chads popping on $50 at a time trying to spin it up, while studious dorks like myself pick up the easy cash.
The opportunity is there for those willing to put in the time
>>25120623
How long did it take you to git gud? What does poker theory involve? Math? Did you do well at school? What's your IQ?
>>25120489
>160k hands
>this year
sick volume m8
i do play online poker and im not very good at it but i win enough to get by in slavland
Hmm sounds interesting, I tried gambling using tips from a Facebook group. I always came very close in the soccer games but it was just one team letting me down. However I did end in profit but only $100 ish.
Any advice where to start to learn poker? How'd you go about it?
>>25120489
Always been interested in studying poker, what books would you recommend a beginner?
>>25120641
I've actually been in the field for a few years, but I'm assuming the NEETs here have infinite time on their hands. I haven't taken a formal IQ test but from my online sample I'd say I'm somewhere between 110-120. There is quite a bit of math involved its mostly arithmetic and logical thinking.
>>25120643
4 tables max on bodog/bovada bro. Sorry for you slavbros who have to grind it out on much tougher sites because the bodog tables are packed with fish, compared to stars/party/ipoker
>>25120489
With the amount of effort you need to put in to studying the game and making a decent wage you can make even more money in other areas (e.g. real estate or learning software development skills) and this money will be more consistent and will come with some job security.
For a professional poker player your earnings and subsequently your quality of life are entirely dictated by variance and it can really fuck with your mental health if you go through a rough streak. Furthermore the games are getting tougher every year so its not a viable long term career. Somewhere down the line you are going to have to find another job and you'll have a huge gap in your CV where you have to explain you were a professional poker player, which to many employers sounds like a huge red flag.
>>25120653
>>25120664
Applications of No Limit Holdem is a must.
It is definitely a bit dry and as a beginner it will be super tough to comprehend, but if you read through that book and put your time into some penny games on any online poker site, you should figure stuff out eventually.
Once you are able to profit I would recommend investing in an online training site. Pro poker players record videos of themselves playing poker and explain their thought process. It can be a bit pricey, but if you are serious then you will find it hugely beneficial.
>>25120737
I imagine poker is just easier and more enjoyable than those things though.
>>25120748
Thanks anon. I'll look into it
>>25120489
What site do you use? I've been meaning to play but all pokersites seem sketchy as hell and would actually be able to get real money out instead of being restricted by the pokerjews
>>25120748
lol at recommending that book to a beginner, something like Easy game vol1/vol2 or some of Ed Miller's books are much more suitable
GTO is completely irrelevant for the nano/micro stakes
>>25120737
The guy posted a graph of him earning 100k in a year from basically nothing.
You're not going to do that in software development if you're self taught and you're trying to get an entry level position. If you live somewhere like NYC or SF then maybe you'll eventually get to 100k provided the bubble doesn't burst anytime soon. But then if you do live in those areas you'll get cucked by the cost of living.
I'm self taught in programming, I'm looking for a job in a shitty part of the uk, I'm going to be lucky to get 20k-30k (gbp not usd) for my first junior developer job, if that. And I'll probably have to use fucking PHP in the process.
>>25120737
I will agree coding/software development is a much more promising field (don't know anything about real estate and prospects in that.) But who wants a real job tho :D
If you really do not want to deal with people at all, online poker will be a viable field for years to come, depending on the game type you choose to pursue. Unfortunately, the most popular game, No Limit Holdem, is close to solved from a practical perspective and game theory optimal bots are invading the games everywhere.
Omaha is still a viable game with huge volume both online and live. The computer are very far away from solving this infinitely more complex game and humans will be profiting in this game for years and possibly decades to come.
>>25120807
hrm yeah I've been out of the micros for some time so I don't really know whats its like down there, but I am assuming things are far tougher than before. People grinding 50nl do have a decent knowledge for balanced/optimal strategy so I think it is a decent starting point for beginners. Being indoctrinated into the "whole gameplan" thinking style of gto will be far better than starting off from the explo style all of us who began earlier found ourselves trapped in.
>>25120908
>No Limit Holdem, is close to solved from a practical perspective and game theory optimal bots are invading the games everywhere.
I could probably make a Python bot that could play online poker if I knew how to play online poker.
>>25120489
because my luck is shit
So do you live in America OP? I thought it was illegal here. You don't have to pay taxes on it?
I'm too lazy.
Also, I'm not that smart. I got stuck at Rank 2 in Hearthstone.
>>25120754
Absolutely it probably is. I have great respect for players like OP who have enough skill and perseverance to make a living from playing the game. It sounds great in theory to earn your income by sitting at the computer playing a card game but it is not without its downfalls.
What happens when you encounter a run of bad variance for 60k hands and although you are making all the right decisions you're contantly getting unlucky and your profit is slowly diminishing day by day. Sure you can't run bad forever but when your income depends on winning and you're consistently losing its got to be really depressing and nerve wracking and you start to doubt your skill and thought process.
Not to mention playing online is risky as fuck especially in america. Admittedly it looks like the legislation is improving to accommodate online poker but it must be pretty scary knowing that any day your income stream could be shut off as some law gets introduced to ban online poker. Probably not very likely but it should be a consideration.
It gets fucking boring. I get tired after a single sit n go, I can't imagine playing poker for hours every day, it would be mind numbing
>>25120951
Coming from someone with years of experience of the game, no you couldn't, at least not without years of development and fine tuning. There are way too many variables to be accounted for to make a bot which can profitably beat online poker (at the stakes where the money is worthwhile).
>>25120489
>that scary dip after $80,000
>>25120951
Luckily you don't know how, we already have enough botters taking millions from our games :p
>>25120966
Yessir California, US of A. I've paid a decent 6figure amount in the past few years because I want to be legit. You can get by lying but then you would have to always worry about the IRS catching onto you
>>25120979
Legit reason not to get started. If you are lazy and try to get into the game you will get totally owned
>>25120981
Variance is a real issue for sure. Volume is key and as an american that is a tough thing nowadays (not many viable sites.)
I will say that if you develop your skills enough to beat small stakes online NLHE games, you can win in most $1/2 and $2/5 games across the country and as such you can have a livable wage. I play on Bovada and get money off regularly. If they the US government did manage to shut down bovada, I can go out and play at any of the casinos that are fairly nearby that offer poker games. Most places in the USA have poker games within driving distance.
>>25121023
He probably couldn't but I'm just egging him on :P >>25121046
Recent breakeven is more heart-wrenching t.b.h f.a.m
>>25120489
It's such a long term thing and would seem so risky to me. I accept that it's possible and believe your graph, but after 11.000 hands you were at a net loss.
between hands 95,000 and 100,000 you lost $15,000. Which averages out at $3 per hand for 5000 hands.
You alos peaked 20,000 hands ago and still haven't recovered yet.
Stuff like that would put me off.
>>25121023
A cursory glance at Github shows that there's a shitload of existing open source poker AI programs in a wide variety of languages for anyone to take and use as they please. Poker AI is not exactly unexplored territory.
I wouldn't do it myself since I have only a vague understanding of the game, but I could see it being a very feasible project that shouldn't require a massive investment in time for development.
>>25120489
OP is an absolute exception from the norm
Its not easy money
There is no such thing as easy money
>>25120892
The point is, you are earning 30k a year with job security, health insurance and a chance to get promoted move up the ladder. You are also gaining experience, new skills, and you have something you can add to your CV to show future employers.
This guy might make 100k this year, he might run bad and make 30k next year, all the while the games are getting tougher and harder to beat so he has to keep studying and learning in order to stay afloat. Sure he can move up stakes if his knowledge of the game improves and he runs well, but now he's gotta put in even more effort to keep up a winrate and eventually he's gonna reach a point where the players are too good for him to profit from. While this is happening he has no health insurance or company benefits and the gap on his CV is expanding more and more to the point where it's gonna be hard for him to find a worthwhile job that isn't in the poker industry.
>>25121146
stfu wagecuck
>>25121167
That's awfully defensive of you
Gamble if you want, but most likely you won't end up like OP
tried beating 1/.50 nlhe on pokerstars a few years ago, totally impossible
full of regs, no fish
>>25121146
>all the while the games are getting tougher and harder to beat so he has to keep studying and learning in order to stay afloat.
That's the case in any career. But generally you learn by doing.
>>25121146
If one does learn to be a successful poker professional over a 5+ year span, you will learn some skillsets that are valuable to some employers. A general "Expected Value" sort of mindset based in math, logical thinking, bankroll management: all of these things are very important for most real life jobs that someone can actually earn a good amount of money in.
>>25121290
Either learn to bumhunt or learn to beat the reg, IMO
>>25121389
regs*
While I'm too lazy / depressed to ever become a professional poker player, I do wonder sometimes about how the online sites prevent 'cheating'.
What's to stop people writing algorithms for optimal play + throwing in some randomness so it looks natural? Clearly there must be players who make a net profit who DON'T cheat but then those players must also have specific styles and strategies which could be imitated with programs, no?
>>25121124
There's a huge difference between building a bot which can play poker, and a bot which can play poker profitably.
To an outsider or beginner the game seems relatively simple. It's when you start to play the game seriously and study it in depth you start to realize how absurdly complex it is. There are a huge amount of variables that need to be taken into account in a single hand of no limit hold em. For example, a typical winning midstakes online player's thought process might go something like this:
I've been dealt AKo in the small blind and it has been folded to me, according to his stats my opponent in the big blind is a tight, solid regular. I therefore know he will be defending a close to optimal frequency of hands and I will be out of position to him on subsequent streets so I should adjust my range accordingly and open fewer hands than I would against weaker player. My adjusted range should be close to the top 65% of hands in this situation, AKo is in this range so I will open it to 3BB (as I would do with my entire range so as to avoid being exploited by an attentive opponent). My opponent calls after thinking for 3 seconds (possibly consider some timing tells). Because he called I know he doesn't have a top 5% hand because he would have 3bet it (as he would some of his weaker hands that are too weak to call, for balance) to apply pressure and extract value from my weak range, and to exercise his positional advantage. Because of the pot odds I offer him along with his positional advantage, I calculate his calling range here to be very wide and comprised of mostly middle-strength hands. AKo is at the top of our range and is very ahead of his range going to the flop.
I know that might be a load of gibberish to a non-poker player or beginner but it's the kind of thought process needed to beat midstakes poker online (at least on tougher sites like pokerstars). Also, I only covered pre-flop game which is by far the simplest area of the game.
>>25121299
Usually for careers though theres a lot less on the line and stress is low if yourr at least average
Gambling is akin to stock trading and while it is lucrative theres a lot of pressure and stress.
>>25121389
No buisiness will take a professional online poker player over someone with a degree, sorry.
>>25121517
Continued:
Post flop play gets extremely complex and there is a lot of leveling and meta gaming involved e.g:
This is a good board for my range and bad for his range so why did he raise my cbet?
Is it because he has a strong hand and wants to extract value?
Is it because he knows I will cbet this board with my entire range and therefore I have enough combos of air to value hands to justify raising with his air to push me off my air and weak hands?
Is it because he knows i play predictably on future streets to a flop raise?
Is my opponent actually a bad player who is overvaluing top-pair here and I can call profitably with implied odds?
I know my opponent never raises with flush draws so can I call with my entire range and apply heavy pressure to his capped range on any turn or river which completes the flush?
Just examples of the kind of things that need to be computed by a profitable poker AI if you want to beat midstakes+ online holdem, building a profitable bot is no small task.
>>25121124
lol you're understimating the complexity of poker, senpai
the most advanced poker AI there is, a multimillion dollar project, still is nowhere near feasible as a substitute for real online gameplay
>>25121495
As shown in >>25121517 and >>25121550, poker bots that can beat worthwhile stakes need to be extremely complex, but they do exist, although due to the complexity they are very rare. Most sites don't give a shit about bots as long as they are making money from the rake. However sites like pokerstars try hard to stop cheating and botting by analyzing things like mouse movement and timing to try and find patterns. I would expect that a designer of any bot capable enough to beat the game would also be smart enough to add in some functionality to make it undetectable.
>>25121544
OP here, I know a ton of former online poker professionals without degrees employed in stock market shit. I only say "stock market shit" because I do not know their official job title, but people I know are employed clicking buttons and moving money around. They have offered me a job at their company but I declined because as of now my profit potential in poker far outweights the profit potential of wageslaving for their company.
So yeah, there are real businesses that value poker skillsets.
>>25121533
agree with this.
>>25120489
>net won
who are you trying to fool here?
mb add your real graph and show us your miserable 10k winnings you cuck
>>25121656
Well Pokerstars tries far more than any other site, but we are dealing with people who know computers well. Its easy enough to just run one computer with your game theory optimal bot and have that computer port over answers to a second computer. Millions of dollars are on the line and setting up this sort of rig is definitely a pain in the ass, but doable for the money involved.
Moral of the story: If you play NLHE, game select hard. Same goes for any fixed limit betting game, there are bots that have solved your game and are owning you online, so make sure you are playing against donators when you play.
If you want to learn poker nowadays, learn Omaha/PLO
>>25121738
are you dumb? if his graph included pots he won only there would be no losing or breakeven stretches and the graph would have showed at least 1 million in winnings
>>25121738
maney tho (original comment)
>>25120489
I have a bit of experience playing casual Hold'em Poker on my cellphone, and I'm bretty good at PLAYING WITH OTHER CASUALS. I know how to fool novices and get their coins, but when playing real poker, with real money in it, I doubt there will be novices
>>25121605
Not entirely true. There are some russian botters out there taking a huge amount of money out of the games... besides the russians I do not think there have been many successful poker botting outfits
Wait, people can still make money doing this?
I assumed that you could only win if you paid like $500 for a bot to do your maths for you.
>>25120799
>What site do you use? I've been meaning to play but all pokersites seem sketchy as hell and would actually be able to get real money out instead of being restricted by the pokerjews
You pretty much have to do it illegally.
>>25123204
This is true, OP is from like 10 years ago. Most poker nowadays is played by bots against bots.
