Is Buddhism the most normie thing out there? I seriously don't fucking get it and I don't know why you NEETs like it so much too, it tries to take the fun out of life to where you just sit around all day meditating which doesn't do anything
>be atheist
>kind of have becoming fucking weird since turning vegetarian
>look into Buddhism
>ya know this looks kind of nice
>"can't drink alcohol"
>Eh nvm
>>25040755
as opposed to sitting around all day jacking off to hentai and shitposting?
>where you just sit around all day meditating which doesn't do anything
Yes goy, meditation is totally useless. Spend all of your time watching porn and anime instead.
>>25040755
Read this faggot. It does do something when you do it right.
Personally, I prefer the Qigong approach, but whatever.
>>25040793
Taoism > Buddhism
>>25040755
because anime told them it was cool
>>25040800
Better then that "self enlightenment" bullshit, atleast I enjoy things in life
>>25040832
Forgot pic for faggot OP.
>>25040851
There is no such thing as "enlightenment" it's just dumbass normie attention whore thinking they are not just chemicals in a clump of meat
>>25040793
>can't eat a living creature but will drink carcinogenic liquids
>>25040892
Well, you just made a fool of yourself. The book I posted is written by a neuroscientist who talks only of the benefits of meditation to your state of consciousness.
>>25040904
>alcohol
>carcinogenic liquid
you're a fucking faggot you know
>>25041069
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_and_cancer
I'm strictly straight. I'm also healthier than you, gayboy.
>>25040755
it's not but normies latch onto it because orientalism and they think it's cool and nonjudgemental so they can be be "spiritual" without thinking about sin.
>>25040995
>Conciousness
Implying other people have complex lives such as mine and aren't existing just to have an impact on me for good or bad
Jesus died for your sins and rose from the dead. Buddah lies in a grave.
>>25041185
Even if you believe that, it still means that YOU have consciousness, moron.
>>25040755
>Is Buddhism the most normie thing out there?
No, its Christianity and Atheism.
>I seriously don't fucking get it and I don't know why you NEETs like it so much too, it tries to take the fun out of life to where you just sit around all day meditating which doesn't do anything
Have you tried looking into Buddhism? There's other method of meditation that doesn't involve sitting down, just being mindful of your activities.
>>25041202
>Translation: One religion is built bullshit and the other tries to do away with bullshit.
>>25041205
You are proving my point by impacting me
Just take the Stoic approach and not worry about metaphysical hoo hah. Life is too short to ask silly questions like "Does God exist?" and "What if nothing is real?".
>meditation doesnt do anything
>thats the point of meditation
>not being able to enjoy the simplicity of just being alive and breathing
Im sorry for you OP
>>25041225
>No, its Christianity and Atheism.
Buddhism was a signal for success a decade ago, it was cool and made you look upper class, you would see people on TV and they would explain how they converted and how it's so rad and will help you and the Earth.
Nowadays even the middle-class is full of buddhists so it stopped being cool. Patricians have moved on to new trends.
That's why you'll now find more and more people criticizing it, not because buddism changed but because it stopped being a signal for success, in the same way than 50 years ago having a good car was a signal and nowadays not having a car just means you're a hobbo.
> plenty of homeless people do have a car, actually.
>>25041419
LOL I am listening to this while reading that.
https://youtu.be/JCDjP4JnpGU?t=1737
>>25041459
>huuuuurrrrrrr dduuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrr
>>25040995
>Sam Harris
>scientist
Read some quotes of his.
>Everything we do is for the purpose of altering consciousness. We form friendships so that we can feel certain emotions, like love, and avoid others, like loneliness. We eat specific foods to enjoy their fleeting presence on our tongues. We read for the pleasure of thinking another person's thoughts.
>Tolerance, openness to argument, openness to self-doubt, willingness to see other people's points of view - these are very liberal and enlightened values that people are right to hold [...].
>Almost all our suffering is the product of our thoughts. We spend nearly every moment of our lives lost in thought, and hostage to the character of those thoughts. You can break this spell, but it takes training just like it takes training to defend yourself against a physical assault.
He's as religious as your regular Christian.
Besides,
https://shadowtolight.wordpress.com/2015/06/23/has-sam-harris-been-busy-doing-scientific-research/
etc.
>>25041225
>just being mindful of your activities
Same that 'meditation' makes you less mindful of those then.
>>25041592
>I can cherry pick too!
>>25041652
Well, I could have just pointed you to a page with his quotes and have you accuse me of laziness and expecting you to read a lot.
>>25041592
You have clearly never heard a lecture/read a book by any neuroscientist ever. They all believe that perception and consciousness are the most important things in the universe. Really, what else is there? Even quantum physics is stumped by simply trying to observe certain phenomena.
TL;DR eat shit
>>25040755
here is my meditation story:
>read about meditating
>"lol just sitting in silence gay shit lol lets try it"
>"it cant be hard to just sit in peace without thinking about shit"
>close my eyes, empty my mind
>in less than a minute my mind starts racing and random thoughts pop up
>hey but wait, I am just sitting in silence without thinking about anything
>so who is actually thinking these thoughts?
try it robots, sit without thinking about anything
>Buddhism
not even once
>>25041711
I'll teach you guys what Taoism taught me. Have you ever been "in the zone"? Either playing a game/sport/writing/drawing/jerking off whatever? Well, meditations ultimate goal is to prolong this state of quasi-unconsciousness, what the Taoists call "No Mind". If you can do that just be focusing on a prayer, or mantra, or better yet, just on your breath, or better even still, if you can eliminate dualistic thoughts like those, and just enter that zone for prolonged periods of time, almost at will, that fantastic feeling of harmony, like you can do no wrong, can be your as much as you are willing to go for it.
>>25041697
A neuroscientist NEVER talks about 'consciousness'. They talk about cortical columns, of activation and inhibition, of potentials, or whatever. The term 'consciousness' is thoroughly obsolete at this point, and if someone uses it, it is a sure mark they are religious.
>[Neuroscientists] all believe that perception and consciousness are the most important things in the universe.
May I laugh already?
Buddhism? You mean Hinduism for pussies?
>>25040755
Are you that dude that got super butthurt for no reason in the happiness thread, then started ranting how meditation was just as bad as cancer or some other crazy dumb shit?
We get it, you rather do drugs and be pissed off and crazy then take any sort of control or responsibility for your self or mental state.
>>25041781
'If you think about x, you don't think about things that are not x.'
Such pretentious platitudes don't even deserve an elaborate dismissal. Just fuck off.
>>25040793
>>"can't drink alcohol"
What kind of Buddhism were you looking at m8? Alcohol is allowed as long as you don't become an alcoholic.
>>25041621
Oh look it's 'this guy' again who spends his days and night talk to Buddhists
>>25041802
Physicists and neuroscientists alike talk about consciousness all the fucking time. The fuck are you talking about?
>>25041883
>Physicists and neuroscientists alike talk about consciousness all the fucking time.
No. Religious crackpots who managed a PhD in physics and neuroscience do.
>>25041823
Not him, he's the resident village idiot who always use single apostrophes as quotes 'like this' and whose posts always end up being a massive fucking wall of text and him replying 2-3 times to himself with "in other words, another nonsense wall of text"
dude is literally retarded.
>>25041802
Scientist move towards the realm once reserve for philosophers and mystics all the time. Don't be surprise if there is a Hindu goddess in front of Cern.
>>25041856
You don't get it.
bloxc jkl l j sc
>>25040755
Sitting on the floor is one form of meditation.
Any form of activity that clears your mind, be it walking or running or kung-fu or lifting weights, is also a form of meditation
>>25041897
>>25041883
In other words, 'scientists' who talk about consciousness are Roger Penrose, Rupert Sheldrake, and Roger Nelson. No one else.
>>25041905
He's known as the "anti Buddha" and always enters drug threads. Crazy fucker for sure kek.
It's the lowest form of spirituality.
>>25040892
WE WUZ CHEMICALS N SHIEET SOMEBODY SED SO
>>25041268
>i dont understand so its wrong
>>25041398
Anti-intellectualism and pseudo-Stoicism?
>>25041929
I don't get your fancy fairy feel-fun 'if you let go and just trust the universe, the universe will embrace you and you'll enter the state of flow in which you'll magically do no wrong and succeed at everything', true. Because it is a tautology in which there is nothing to get. 'If you manage to focus on the things you should focus on and avoid focusing on what should not be focused on, your focus will be perfect.' Wo-fucking-w.
>>25042000
not him but it's really just being in a calm state where you're not micro managing your every action and you don't have any anxiety about what you're doing getting in the way or distracting you.
>'If you manage to focus on the things you should focus on and avoid focusing on what should not be focused on, your focus will be perfect.'
it's not consciously focusing at all.
>>25042069
And -- ah -- the term escapes me -- pray what is that thing that will keep me from accidentally getting carried away with 'letting go' and 'stopping focusing consciously', and becoming lax, careless, inattentive, mindless, uncritical, and sloppy again?
(Also:
>>25041980
did you just dismiss both sides of the argument at the same time? I like you.)
>>25041949
Although I think that life may be the result of an accident, I do not think that of consciousness. Consciousness cannot be accounted for in physical terms. For consciousness is absolutely fundamental. It cannot be accounted for in terms of anything else.
t. Schrodinger
you were saying what?
>>25042159
That Schroedinger was religious?
>>25042128
Why can't everyone just realizes that life is just a series of memes and shit posting or something.
>>25041959
Doesn't agree with my texts
Calls me a fucker and village idiot
In other words you are just a hypocritical asshole
Friendly reminder to ignore the guy who argues by verbosity and has a hate-boner for Buddhists and uses single quotes because he is an idiot.
You can't win at arguing against idiots because they have more experience at it than you.
>>25042190
>>25042159
In other words, the quantum physicist I have most respect for is Victor Stenger of http://www.amazon.com/The-Unconscious-Quantum-Victor-Stenger/dp/1573920223 .
>>25041858
I dunno I was on the fucking how to page lol
One of the main things it said you had to promise to follow was not consume intoxicants
>and I know
>I'll probably never go vegan because I love fucking mead too much
>but I only drink it at most maybe 6 times a year or once a month on a good year
I can live without all alcohol except mead
>>25040995
>>25041592
Science is wrong you milquetoast bastards
>>25041802
LE CURRENT YEAR
Jump off a proverbial cliff you embodiment of Redditisms.
>>25042128
There's no argument here, just a load of pretense.
>>25042248
le ignore person i dont like faec ;_;
>>25042293
http://m.wikihow.com/Become-a-Buddhist
Secular meditation practices are not buddhism. Buddhism is a whole complicated thing. Also, it's just as garbage as every other religion.
>>25042295
Quantum mechanics (QM; also known as quantum physics or quantum eory) including quantum field theory, is a fundamental branch of physics concerned with processes involving, for example, atoms and photons. In such processes, said to be quantized, the action has been observed to be only in integer multiples of the Planck constant, a physical quantity that is exceedingly, indeed perhaps ultimately, small. This is utterly inexplicable in classical physics.
Quantum mechanics gradually arose from Max Planck's solution in 1900 to the black-body radiation problem (reported 1859) and Albert Einstein's 1905 paper which offered a quantum-based theory to explain the photoelectric effect (reported 1887). Early quantum theory was significantly reformulated in the mid-1920s.
The mathematical formulations of quantum mechanics are abstract. A mathematical function, the wave function, provides information about the probability amplitude of position, momentum, and other physical properties of a particle.
Important applications of quantum mechanical theory include superconducting magnets, light-emitting diodes and the laser, the transistor and semiconductors such as the microprocessor, medical and research imaging such as magnetic resonance imaging and electron microscopy, and explanations for many biological and physical phenomena.
>>25042295
Scientific inquiry into the wave nature of light began in the 17th and 18th centuries, when scientists such as Robert Hooke, Christiaan Huygens and Leonhard Euler proposed a wave theory of light based on experimental observations.[1] In 1803, Thomas Young, an English polymath, performed the famous double-slit experiment that he later described in a paper entitled On the nature of light and colours. This experiment played a major role in the general acceptance of the wave theory of light.
In 1838, Michael Faraday discovered cathode rays. These studies were followed by the 1859 statement of the black-body radiation problem by Gustav Kirchhoff, the 1877 suggestion by Ludwig Boltzmann that the energy states of a physical system can be discrete, and the 1900 quantum hypothesis of Max Planck.[2] Planck's hypothesis that energy is radiated and absorbed in discrete "quanta" (or energy elements) precisely matched the observed patterns of black-body radiation.
In 1896, Wilhelm Wien empirically determined a distribution law of black-body radiation,[3] known as Wien's law in his honor. Ludwig Boltzmann independently arrived at this result by considerations of Maxwell's equations. However, it was valid only at high frequencies and underestimated the radiance at low frequencies. Later, Planck corrected this model using Boltzmann's statistical interpretation of thermodynamics and proposed what is now called Planck's law, which led to the development of quantum mechanics.
>>25042293
Shaolin monks drink alcohol and eat meat. Ikyyu, a Zen priest an poet, spent his life drinking sake with hookers. Tibetans live off of meat, etc.
It sounds like you were reading about monkhood or something. There's nothing wrong with enjoying the things that the world has to offer as Buddhist, as long you don't depend on them and get addicted.
>>25041949
>>25042190
oh holy shit, you're the single quote guy that spams every single fucking one of these threads. Cool to meet you man, promptly kill yourself
>>25042252
I mean, Chopra is obviously retarded to anyone who's ever even heard of a Hilbert space. Maybe get back to me when you have more than a non-quantitative understanding of physics
>>25042313
>>25042293
Yeah the taking refuge & triple gem thing is meant for monastic purposes. You can be a Buddhist without doing any of those things or going to a temple.
Jesus fuck though I've kind of realized I've come a long way over the last few years health wise.
I used to inhale cheeseburgers, smoke about a pack a day and drink excessively.
Now I don't even eat meat, I stopped smoking a year and and a half ago, and my alcohol use is literally a mead bar an hour and a half from me I go to for special occasions.
>>25042378
That's kind of what I was wondering when I was reading that, I thought I'd read about fat wise Asian guys who drank all the damn time and were merry.
I dunno sounds like if I want to look into it again I should. I'll see what happens.
>>25042429
Sounds good. The only thing you need to remember from Buddhism is the 4 nobles truths, the eightfold path, and the middle way.
The middle way means obviously not living a life of debauchery and addiction, but also not living a sheltered life of isolation.
alan watts is a good starting point if you're interested in eastern philosophy.
i like to play his recordings in the background while i'm doing chores. he delves into a lot of different topics, and he's got a way of speaking that puts you at ease.
terrence mckenna is another good choice
>>25042552
I think something has been lost in translation, because the middle way can't just be simple moderation.
>>25040755
one of the four noble truths that the budha said was that living is suffering. It acknowledges the sadness and pain of every human from the starving orphans in third world countries to the people that are living in conditions light years ahead of some people. You wont stop drinking or taking drugs because you're so attached to them but it doesnt take away the pain, it just delays it. Meditation is an attempt to permanently stop the pain, not just for you, for everybody. This was the Buddha's goal and the reason Buddhism is my religion. I grew up Buddhist and my dad was super knowledgable about it. You can keep escaping from your troubles temporarily with alcohol and entertainment but i would rather feel happiness instead of "fun".
>>25042429
>vegan
Aaaaand the Jews got another one...
>>25042593
I just ordered his Tao book the other day. Do you know if it's any good?
>>25042620
>makessenseblox
Buddhism is retarded. Just be a proper nihilist.
I prefer epicureanism. Being a whiny bald faggot sucks ass. I just enjoy life.
>>25040851
>>25040832
>Sam Harris
Spot the redditor
>>25042609
That's exactly what it is
>the Buddha describes the middle way as a path of moderation, between the extremes of sensual indulgence and self-mortification
it also means following the eightfold path (right view, right intention, right speech, etc.), which itself is a very obvious and simple thing
>>25042641
I don't know how they got me considering I save a lot of money not buying so much fast food, and "healthy" meat is pretty expensive bro.
I'm not vegan anyway I like cheese and eggs fuck it
>>25041549
Implying it isn't all about signaling class status and superior personality traits such as openness and agreeableness. It makes people look good.
People are always eager to jump on some easy shortcut to life and they flee when they realize that it's costly in term of time and effort and they just want some eureka moment, just like I would like to look shredded without watching my diet.
I've met some great buddhist dudes, but I've yet to encounter a Robot who's enlightened not by some phony God's blessing but by his meditations.
> The way every thread on the subject is full of rustled jimmies and ad hominem is proof enough of all those "benefits"
>>25042593
>le drugs xdDDd lmao
Both are shitstains on existence.
Why don't you read something by someone other than a trendy moron? Because real mysticism scares you.
>>25042651
You're not an Epicurean, and I doubt you have any understanding of Epicureanism.
>>25042647
just giving my 2 cents about buddhism, im not as knowledgeable as i should be but i think i know a decent bit.
>>25040904
What's wrong with drinking water?
>>25042645
haven't read it, but it should be worth every penny.
you should look in to the Tao of Pooh. it basically uses winnie the pooh characters to explain the differences between various philosophies.
>>25042668
Moderation is nothing but another manifestation of hedonism.
>>25042593
>alan watts is a good starting point if you're interested in eastern philosophy.
Indeed, equating Alan Watts with 'eastern philosophy' does the latter perfect, exact justice.
>he's got a way of speaking that puts you at ease
I was under the impression that there are terms for people who rely on their manner of delivery so to obscure the shortcomings of their point, but I am truly from another epoch.
>>25042609
>>25042668
Gentle, futile reminder that the only people who use '...but in moderation' are people who need to placate consciences.
>>25042700
you are a shitstain on existence my man
>>25042748
AKA 'im special heres a bunch of caricatures LISTEN TO ME'
inb4 morons confuse me with thei scapegoats because I use singles properly.
>>25042800
Projection, how typical of a trendy new age millennial.
>>25040793
everything in moderation, senpai
>>25042784
>I was under the impression that there are terms for people who rely on their manner of delivery so to obscure the shortcomings of their point, but I am truly from another epoch.
you mean like you're doing right now?
It's so transparent it's sad, honestly.
>>25042778
>>25042784
Moderation is knowing when to put the bag of chips down, but still enjoying it.
>>25042700
Not him, but what do you recommend?
>>25041711
I prefer taking a shower in the dark. I just squat down and focus on breathing and heartbeating slower. I enjoy it so much I've been looking at getting a shower steamer unit. I'll do it with the concrete shower in my tiny house I build on my parents land.
>>25042853
No. I mean that of Watts' anti-intellectual vitriol about 'me not being my body' and 'me being light' and 'me being the universe' and 'death not existing', which is literally only 1/100 of his repertoire, a crucial part is his voice, with which he disables criticism, hypnotizing his listeners like the sect leader that he was.
>>25042856
Which is just another hedonistic strategy.
>>25042651
Meditation helps me enjoy life personally. When I clear out my head I enjoy anime and other such entertainment much more.
>>25042900
Actual mysticism.
Texts depend on where you want to start. Starting with Alchemy is generally good enough though.
>>25042907
are you incapable of understanding metaphor? do you honestly believe he really thought death doesn't exist? if so you're a lot more retarded than you fancy yourself.
>>25042921
Not really no. Buddhism doesn't favor self-indulgence over anything else, it seeks to help all living beings.
There is literally no criticism against Hedonism.
>>25042907
In fact, I am reading [1] right now, and where just a year ago I would fear anger, I just feel wonder. How can people fall for manipulation that is so heavy-handed, so obvious, so forced, so fucking primitive? 'Reality is only a Rorschach ink-blot.' 'Things are as they are. [...]' '[...] the present [...] is what there is and all there is.' The man was so desperate to drag others down, it's almost literally sad.
[1] http://mobile.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/a/alan_watts.html
>>25043004
>There is literally no criticism against Hedonism that I'm willing to listen to.
FTFY
>>25043004
Read Gorgias by Plato.
>>25042907
this
>>25042989
And as with everything else, there are different definitions and ideals of death for example.
>>25042989
Oh, right, you are a Buddhist...
I do feel lonely...
No, apologist, no. I understand his metaphors perfectly -- they are heavy-handed -- as well as what he did to you with them, and why, which you all are unaware of. Namely that his claims that 'those are just metaphors, bro, just metaphors' served to acquiesce consciences which opposed to metaphors in the first place, because every single, every single, metaphor made fosters in society the impression that they're fine, that they should not be fought, that they're 'just another way to teach'. Which is what he wanted. He was completely, perfectly aware that superficially, people will dismiss him as an allegorist etc. He was perfectly aware that he's going to damage the society on another level -- implicit, of connotations, whereby instead of advancing science in which terms such as death are biological, universe are cosmological, light are physico-biological... he invited people to rather decode cryptic figures of speech. Every single time that a person was drawn away from DISambiguation and DIScrimination of terms, of clarifying 'light' or 'death', was a loss to him, because it enlightened. Every time he managed to draw someone to pose and decode paradoxes like 'you both exist and don't exist', it was a victory, because it kept them uneducated. And there were connotations. 'You are the universe' connoting you are not that mundane, boring, physical body which to understand. 'All being one' connoting that concepts are -- arbitrary, meaningless, flawed, limited, not to consider seriously, eventually not to learn. 'You cannot define yourself' connoting that definition are elusive, and one should not again conceive of oneself as a body.. He knew full well he could never teach -- so he connoted, cowardly. Not to learn, not to clarify. He was a small, small man.
I do feel lonely.
>>25043176
>"in other words" in 3....2...1.....
>>25043205
There is no 'in other words' to 'I do feel lonely'.
>>25043176
Were you pinching your nipples as you typed all that?
>>25043233
I know you, Buddhist.
>>25042975
>Alchemy
Pls give books, too vague to follow
>>25043233
Pinching one's nipples is an exercise in hedonism!
>>25043248
More taoist desu
>>25043176
>STEM majors
lmfao
>>25043301
There is absolutely no difference.
Subdivisions of science differ.
Subdivisions of religion don't.
>>25043312
Bit of a difference, tbph
>>25042989
HAHAH DUDE JUST A PRANK
Heavy-handed High School metaphors
>>25043280
Do your own research. It may arguably be best to start from secondary sources. Read every relevant iteration of the Faust legend.
>>25043312
Wrong.
Science is irrelevant btw
>>25043312
Buddhism is like the first step in Eastern philosphy. Tao is the true end.
>>25043291
Pinch them too hard and you'll outweigh your pleasure with pain
>>25043311
not even, single quotes fag admits to having a low IQ
>>25040755
You don't stop to do things because you're afraid to do nothing. Buddhists are stronger than you. You live in a battle between you and others and are triggered that buddhists win it.
>>25043356
That's what you think!
>>25043301
>Read tao te ching,
>it's filled with self-defeating ideas
>take a look on the economical and political situations when the book was written
>it all makes sense
>>25043370
>You don't stop to do things because you're afraid to do nothing.
Ok, now what does that mean?
>>25043338
Faust was a cuck
>>25043312
(Which is because science is adapting one's brain to reality, while religion is harbouring the ever same heritage of delusions and pitfalls of our species -- of free will, of 'nothing can be known for certain', of 'don't judge before you try', of 'everything is connected', of 'right and wrong are relative', of 'thinking is not everything', of 'everything in moderation', of universal projection, the list almost doesn't end.)
>>25043330
There is none.
>>25043404
>it's filled with self-defeating ideas
Please stop embarrassing yourself. I don't know if I can cringe anymore.
>>25043404
name one period in time where bad shit didn't happen
>>25043409
How so?
Why is cuck safe now?
>>25043430
There's a bit of a difference
>>25043445
>>25043434
The rich people started losing money and beinh replaced by other rich people, rich people who followed the Tao knew they were fucked, is that simple.
>>25043458
Play your tug-of-definition with someone else, Buddhist.
>>25040755
>he doesn't know the force
>>25043472
I was talking about your superficial understanding of it's meaning. That's something I expect of a normie straight out of highschool who hasn't done any actual thinking in their life.
>>25043472
>The rich people started losing money and beinh replaced by other rich people
wow you mean like everyday of human existence? Facebook replaced Myspace and Mark Zuckerberg replaced Tom
>>25043482
More of a taoist desu
>>25043516
Taoism is a brand of populism whereby, in the typical eastern cowardly manner, the author spits on virtue or merit ('true knowing is learning never to know'), letting the connotations of that claim impair dedicated pursuit of knowledge, while -- because he is a filthy, dirty coward -- pretending that the 'true sense' of that insult is the platitude that 'true knowing only happens when one learns to discard knowledge that failed the test of time'. Taoist is the scummiest, most cravenly system ever conceived.
>>25043573
And, of course, the only people who are attracted to it are passive-agressive cowards as well, too cowardly to say 'fuck education', so hiding before metaphors and connotations.
>>25043573
they say a symptom of autism is taking things too literally
>>25043573
>true knowing is learning never to know
Who are you quoting there buddy?
"the author"? Which author?
>>25043611
Figures of speech are for cowards. 'I-I didn't mean it! I meant something else! It was a figure of speech! You misunderstood! A figure of speech!'
Maybe one day, you'll grow to respect your mouth, metaphorist coward. Maybe.
>>25043612
Hush.
>>25043573
You've just proved my point.
>>25043647
Seems like you really have an axe to grind with metaphors
>>25041905
My bad then.
I guess I should try and answer OPs questions then.
Please keep in mind I am not a Buddhist, I just went through a phase of researching fuck tons or religions and philosophies a while back in a effort to understand people better (in the most autistic way possible).
>>25040755
>Is Buddhism the most normie thing out there?
Not even close. It is too anti materialism and consumerism for it to be normie or even popular. Lax cultural Christianity is probably the most normie of religious beliefs, at least in most of the world.
>I seriously don't fucking get it
Did you ever try to open a book or at least do the lazy thing and watch a video about the subject?
It ain't hard to google shit.
>and I don't know why you NEETs like it so much
I don't know how true this generalization is, but I suspect there is only a very small minority of NEET's that actually do.
Why would you care anyway?
>t tries to take the fun out of life
No it says to take the middle path of moderation so you don't harm yourself and others. AKA check yourself before you wreck yourself fool.
>where you just sit around all day meditating which doesn't do anything
I think you are misunderstanding a few things, probably because you did not bother to look shit up.
Even monks don't just sit around doing nothing but meditating all day and nothing else.
Meditation has benefits but like with everything too much of a good thing is bad for you and the people around you.
>>25043661
'When a bird takes flight, only the rest of the flock joins in.'
'No, that's not what I meant.'
'Haha, no. Keep trying.'
'Wow, no. You must yet do a lot of reading before you get it.'
'You really don't see what it was about. You clearly don't understand a lot.'
...
>>25043688
I smiled.
But, no. It is just that people who use them are people who are afraid to take responsibility for their words. It's just as with connotations, alluded insults, veiled threats, and so on. Only insecure people use metaphors.
>>25043647
I think you're the one who should hush when you're resorting to quoting things that were never said by people who don't exist and claiming that it's what Buddhists or Taoists believe.
Time for bed friend, and also your medication.
>>25043772
I am not interested in you. I have explained the mechanism behind Taoist sophistry to anyone who's interested in understanding religious sects.
>>25043734
My man, you read too much into things. And the saddest part is you're hopelessly convinced of them, no different than the very people you're criticizing for whatever reason. Obviously "intellectual" flexing for some ego stroke.
>>25041980
Why is Buddhism the lowest form of spirituality?
What is the highest form of spirituality?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Qptyt0-S9U
>>25043796
You have literally made up quotes and are spreading lies.
Luckily everyone on r9k knows you and your predictable nonsense all too well so you're just screaming at a wall, arguing with strawmen, and agreeing with yourself
>>25043810
It's self-destructive and arbitrary.
Catholic mysticism
>>25043797
>you read too much into things
Last time I heard this in real life was when a Buddhist told me 'that's not true, I had no such intention' when I pointed out that their apology for something, 'I'm sorry if you feel insulted', was in itself a thinly-veiled insult, whereby it was implied that I am a small-spirited person who expects an apology for imagined slights.
>>25043734
So are metaphors really the problem or do you just have an axe to grind with people in general?
Not a fan of Taoism or its unrealistic and ill defined goals.
But learning about it is necessary to understand many parts of Chinese history and culture.
It also greatly influence Zen, a movement which I find more agreeable even if I don't practice it myself.
>>25043860
>'things that never happened and words that were never spoken'
>>25043847
How is it self destructive and arbitrary?
>>25043847
Why is it the highest form of spirituality?
>>25043920
I don't know about the arbitrary part
But it literally says that destruction of the delusion that the self/ego is real is one of the goals needed to reach enlightenment.
So you do destroy the (mental concept of) the self.
>>25043882
I'm not sure this is a meaningful question. A shitty person uses metaphors to escape responsibility for their words, just like Buddhists' reply to literally anything I say will always be 'strawman'. (In fact, idea: pit Buddhist claims verbatim against each other, by quoting in one thread what another Buddhist had said in a past one, and hearing 'you are clearly psychotic, literally no Buddhist would ever say that' in reply; could be fun.)
>>25043887
>Zen, a movement which I find more agreeable
Because it is in equal measure meaningless and tautological. It is exactly nilformative. It is impossible for a system to say less than Zen -- or be more harmful than it.
>>25043860
Wooow
You're quite insecure for someone who claims that "only insecure people use metaphors."
You actually remind me of someone I used to know. They thought every little comment was a slight against them. Eventually they sabotaged all their relationships because they thought everyone was against them.
It all starts with one paranoid thought.
>>25043963
>But it literally says that destruction of the delusion that the self/ego is real is one of the goals needed to reach enlightenment.
Where? Cite your sources.
>>25043990
Anon, wait! You're not talking with me! You don't need to ask for sources! I didn't make >>25043963!
>>25044014
wut is happening
>>25043176
oi m8 you are a mad lunatic
>>25044046
Just a small misunderstanding. >>25043990 thought that's he's talking with me, the Autistic Schizophrenic Anti-Buddhism Devil, and he asked >>25043963/'me' of sources; I pointed out that he only needs to strive to humiliate me with questioning for sources, and not any other innocent random anon. I hope all is clear now.
>>25044118
Where's the source?
>>25044118
more than it was before, thanks!
>>25044118
you havin a giggle?
>>25044161
Sorry, source for what again?
In modern Buddhist literature, there are
[_] 3,944 mentions that one has to 'conquer' the ego
[_] 563 mentions that one has to 'accept' the ego
[_] 1,404 mentions that one has to 'destroy' the ego
[_] 2,137 mentions that one has to 'work with' the ego
[_] 812 mentions that one has to 'integrate' the ego
[_] 3,775 mentions that one has to 'realize' the ego 'doesn't exist'
[_] 1,826 mentions that one has to 'realize' the ego 'does exist'
[_] 3,331 mentions that one has to 'understand one is' ego
[_] also 3,331 mentions that one has to 'understand one is not' ego
Choose all that apply.
>>25044211
are you for real? is this a dream?
>>25044211
Which text did you got it from? Please give chapter and page as well
>>25043977
>Because it is in equal measure meaningless and tautological. It is exactly nilformative. It is impossible for a system to say less than Zen -- or be more harmful than it.
Wow a string of empty insults about something I don't even care about. That will surely convince me that Taoism is not shit.
But really, chill out dude, you sound way to high strung and emotionally invested in this then necessary.
>>25044211
that is some low quality bait there, wonder who will actually bite
>>25044249
>chill out dude, you sound way to high strung and emotionally invested in this then necessary.
The only thing that has been invested in this thread is the power to tell other people what to care about and what not, with which arbitrary, bullshit power you invested yourself.
>>25044211
This is bonkers.
>>25044282
Super defensive much
>>25044282
Did a buddhist molest you or something?
>>25044325
No, but after being asked this for the dozenth time by a Buddhist one begins to wonder about their train of thought.
>be me
>be Buddhist
>see Budhist thread on r9k
>see single quotes wall-of-text anon is at it again
dude is a reincarnation of a Boddhistava meant to test our compassion towards retarded people
>>25044325
He had a Buddha stuck in the pooper.
The fat one.
>>25044339
I'm not a buddhist though.
You seem to think the world is split up into "me" and "buddhists"
>>25044387
We've been through Alan Watts already in this thread, anon. I know what you're hinting at. 'There is no distinction between me and Buddhists; everyone shares the same Buddhahood, the same nature of Buddha; one and Buddhists are like unto waves of the ocean.' Fuck off with your language games.
>>25044424
By his parents' marriage, Jesus was better placed to be King of Israel than Herod Antipas was. The two contradictory blood lines in the gospels are seen as compatible if one belongs to Mary and the other to Joseph. In such a case Jesus would have united a formidable list of families into his ancestors.
Jesus joined John the Baptist's movement - John was a close relative of Jesus - and the two were prepared to bring about an uprising in Judaea, but John's arrest and execution caused Jesus to go underground to avoid the same fate. Eventually he resurfaced to carry on the Baptist's work alone.
Jesus was a charismatic teacher and possibly a faith healer. James and Jude were his half-brothers (since Jesus is not Joseph's son, in Tabor's view) and inherited the leadership after Jesus' death. His claim that the brothers of Jesus were members of his Disciples, has been called a misleading and fallacious reading of the biblical text. Tabor argues that the later, spiritualist, writings of Paul the Apostle polluted and effectively hijacked the movement, with the later Gospels following the Pauline point of view.
>>25044424
Maxim defensiveness achieved
he was not going that direction at all dude.
>>25044424
(In all seriousness, though, the man was profoundly vile to erode people's drive to discriminate, to acquire real concepts and real awareness (nice examples of very real, very meaningful awareness: (1) suction doesn't exist, only difference of density, and (2) cold doesn't exist, only transfer of heat), and replace it with the contentless, haze-y impression that 'all is connected'. Again, literal brainwashing. In a sane society, he would be imprisoned if not executed.)
>>25044481
I know. The direction he was going into was, he read the Wikipedia article on paranoid personality disorder a year ago, has used the term three times already on 4chan, and felt confident enough to imply it again in this thread.
>>25044559
You don't let anything past you do you?
>>25044525
Why was that all in ()?
>>25044626
If you mean by that 'accept', no. A man must notice, remember, react to, reply to, criticize, punish, destroy, as much as possible. This necessity must be immediate and unconditional.
>>25044525
Connaitre vin ressemble iii oui possedera portieres. Extreme qu invites du il emporte. Houle daims ronde on un avant. Lessive xv va affirma conflit or meurtre. Defensive viendrait mal qui peu messieurs miserable non. Connaitre annoncait bas attelages aux sinistres pic ces. Pic cimetieres caracolent magistrats toi nationales frissonner retrouvait. Non nid age condamnait descendons moustachus grouillent primeveres bouquetins uns.
Quitta reunir taches non rit son. En pourtant au reparler feerique trophees la garnison. Attelages orientaux en redoutait assassins je. Devenu que iii pareil flamme. But ronds ici celui comme car eux patre poids. Saute est alors moi nul son moins. Trop ont bras mort bas tout ton faut. Je ennemies on lampions rizieres ce nouvelle. Va or simplement asiatiques on artilleurs nationales.
Il haut face sous bout cuir oh elle. Avec plus ruer de il et. Legerement oh oh imprudente moustachus le xv. Babil siens et ca ville. Chiens eut voyons touffe moi visite admire. Le angoisse je ah tu preparer interdit conquete forcenee.
Grand avant creve lilas il du se monde. Voie oui ton murs pere. Jeu culbutent philomene cavaliers vit fourneaux alternent. Pres sa tu je fort deja mais. On enfantent tu attardent crepitent ah va. Propice briques ils ete ennemie ses marches verdure aisance. Phrases symbole meriter en de cousine un touffes en tendues.
Et cependant puissions employees de se possedera affection dentelles. Image saute jet haine porta actes morte sur des ans. Berce but comme appel rangs neige sabre ras ses. Levera en mouche voyons et ca. Toi voila foret vieil mur sur une. Situation net affection mal mystiques feu dernieres. Epars xv le temps mines eu quand jours je.
>>25044679
Cents mal abris levee ere foret. Effrayant as evocation descendit metairies eu etendards ah et. Eue point rirez etais ils. Que songeant piquette dissiper remettre nos promptes eue gravures. Messieurs assassins cependant si universel la. Comptait mur six poitrine sanglees par derniere. Oignons va souleve sa paysans. Bon fumantes triomphe comptait art joyeuses regardez que ses. Ils non nationales paraissait fin frisottent iii.
Jeu sacrifiez universel depourvus air certitude agreerait. Non pressaient lumineuses dut legerement. Les masse neige desir uns senti. Au deja afin qu me ca ange. Demeurent toi sanglante abondance viendrait par marmelade adjudants. Accoudees couraient murmurait vie ere instruite corbeille demeurent.
Aussi la ca etait ronds ma. Dans et je chez on coin. Je faux sont le me ma vent. Usines furent on ii etonna carres. Concierge redoutait expliquer fusillade il je le demeurons cependant et. Hurlements etonnement compassion la me nationales bouquetins renferment. Je soeurs poteau ecarta le me.
Puisqu charge chiens dut non blemir mon fievre. Uns joue tuer idee bon cet asie ans. Peu oui voulez eue essaim intime. Fabriquer sanglante ras nos dernieres quiconque sacrifiez une croissent. Tangibles fabriques craignait deroulent car messieurs non. Saules clairs ca veilla se crises ne. Raison si et cranes etendu ma un.
>>25044525
>In a sane society, he would be imprisoned if not executed.)
Yup, sane societies totally go around imprisoning and executing people who have thoughts and ideas different from you.
I mean, that is what the CCP does and it works great for them right.
>>25044679
you sound insane
Ja miten on nakee me antaa. Loytavat ela nyt porvarit yhtakkia polvissa ero. Me no kulkea jo siella pilaan hamara tyhjan lahtea. Vuoteensa jurottava torpparit no seisomaan ai kuitenkin. Totisesti on en paastanyt olevinasi kuvitella pianaikaa kuunnella. Rukoilla yha toimitan tee jaa jai talvella housunsa puheiksi tarvitsi. Mimmoinen raastavat unhottako ai millainen en et se. Sumppi ne ei elivat ai lienen no.
Kun lapsilla jai paasevat osa ryypatty pitkalla nae kiikarin. Minulla te ajaapas on hyvasti et on jalasta naapuri suoraan. En toimeen paljoko ja leikkia vesilla et itsekin ne ankkuri. Voi han puhkesi tai sikarin onnesta. Kasvoilla taallakin tallettaa odottaisi unelmanne iso mitapahan isa eri. Ilman sen heita asiaa ulvoo salin nuo helga.
Ja puolemme varmasti kyllahan on jo talveksi. Jaa joka ovat mina nae ole han kuin toru. Ukki kun luo oli puhu olet elaa jata. Ilonsa ole haluta kay liekin vie pimita nuo vanhan. Vie syva itse voi enta lapi sen ero ehka. Enka vie nyt uusi jos nyt puna. Olevinaan toi viittiloi tai riittaisi tarvitaan. Kesat he niita kohta huvin ja. Ei ne huomautan pyyhkinyt arentinsa ei.
>>25044651
Why is the ^^^^^^^^ in ()?
Because it was a digression, an elaboration. Stupid question. It was just four keypresses; why not?
>>25044682
well that sure is something else. A mix of French and lorem ipsum
>>25044682
Is that Latin or some sort of bullshit.
Ether way, speak American or get the fuck out.
Stille im la da am drehte diesem lieber hutete. Wohl euch hoch wie oder der gibt ich. Die flu nichtstun nur ein besserung verharrte duftenden. Kindlichen erhaltenen scherzwort gutmutigen mut langweilig ist. Bart dies paar teil er in mi habt. Gutmutigen vorpfeifen nie ordentlich bei neidgefuhl uns ist vielleicht. Licht en davon ri he sitte boden geben sa. Tanzmusik lohgruben mi gegenteil grasplatz sa zufrieden in verweilen. Gebe in frei du wach ihre hier.
Je um ab mitkommen hellroten im argerlich. Wangen fragen lachen pa grauen fertig knarre te ja ku. Weiterhin mu unendlich sa nichtstun schonsten. Dann ihre auch auch dich zeit ten was. Orten pfiff sehen ahren lernt weg zum des. Sa spiegel la beinahe eigenes im la. Abend ein kaute steil sto klein jeden als. Der hubsche see gro wandern richtig schalte steigst das welchem. Drang des eia loben nur las kiste.
Bi du familie sondern zuhorer. Name eben kund wohl leid bis auf. Fu er klimperte spurenden duftenden du neugierde verharrte. Da glatter er wo kleinen lacheln sa. Lachen sieben ochsen siehst ja neckte mu wo pfeife. Abraumen mehrmals im fu gegangen vorstadt zunachst wirklich. Wei obenhin sag solange gedeckt bildnis sagerei ist mir.
>>25044733
You sound insane for hesitating to say that I *AM* insane.
>>25044733
he is insane
even by /r9k/ standards
>>25044768
WOAH... how the hell?
>>25044682
>>25044708
>>25044734
>>25044758
Google translate says you are just spamming filler text.
knock that shit off or you will be banned.
>>25044830
>google translate
>accurate
wew
>>25044710
Flawed analogy. (1) Watts' garbage is not thoughts -- it has no predictive power, it conveys no model of anything, it is unfalsifiable, it confers no power to construct anything, and, more importantly, (2) it is actively keeping people from learning (>>25043176 only scratches the surface).
>>25044830
Thanks for implying that this thread is salvageable, anon -- seriously.
>>25044853
watts is dead
Did we draw him out yet?
Anti-Buddhist poster, are you here?
>Find interesting thread
>Oh wow maybe I can discuss the joys of meditating and shit
>It gets filled with internet experts flinging shit at each other
Alrighty then
>>25044899
he's been here for a good hour and a half. so far he's only said once that people with opposing viewpoints should be put to death.
>>25044959
well, is he wrong?
>>25040851
Have you ever heard that guy's podcast?
it's so boring he oughtta rename it "falling asleep while listening to Sam Harris"
>>25044899
He's been here since almost the (beginning, you can tell by his use of single quotes 'like this' and pointless use of enumeration(1)like (2)this and even more pointless use of (parentheses))
He also tends to reply to his own posts with "In other words, " followed by another wall of text.
I'm starting to think that he's a form of AI that was infected with malware
>>25044916
>just another internet expert complaining
>>25044897
And universally adored. I hadn't searched the >>>/sci/ archive for him, but I doubt even they'd consider him anything less than interesting.
>>25044959
>he's only said once that people with opposing viewpoints should be put to death.
Ah, beside the generalization of 'people with' out of 'the specific person with', what a nice equivocation of 'only'. Meaning 'all he said was that...' while, questioned, pretending to have meant 'the worst thing he said so far was that...'. Always fascinating to watch a Buddhist's first steps in lying...
>>25044980
too soon to figure out
>>25045039
>In other
you should talk to icycalm and Mr. Starkiller, that'd be an amusing conversation to witness
>>25045039
always fascinating to play a game of mental chess with a legit sperg
>>25044995
>He also tends to reply to his own posts with "In other words, "
>accuse one of being incoherent
>accuse when one makes clarifications of one's points as well
>>25044853
>Flawed analogy
It is not a analogy.
That is what you actually said here >>25044525
I was just pointing out how fucked up that line of thinking is, which IS in line with what the CCP does to stifle descent and preserve party integrity since such ideas can't stand on their own against scrutiny.
Read the end of your post then think about how that would play out in the real world, then compare it to real world countries.
Saying that people who hold thoughts and opinions you don't like should be killed is sure sign of being fucked up, and probably wrong.
>>25045102
he didn't say you were being incoherent
i think you're imagining things again
>>25045102
Posting two walls of text of nonsense instead of just one doesn't make your insanity any more clear
>>25044916
Well, it is 4chan and /r9k/ and all.
Nice things come here to die
>>25045123
>what the CCP does to stifle descent
Exactly. I want to stifle the society's descent into religious rambling which reading Alan Watts will inevitably result in.
>>25044916
This whole thread was made for only one purpose.
If you dont know why, then you are part of the purpose
>>25042593
Seconding to look up Alan Watts. Get his books and audio CDs.
>>25045177
Ok, I am done.
Really hope you get the help you desperately need before you hurt yourself or someone else with your crazy.
>>25045177
you should do something about your own ramblings first
>>25045248
You might wish that I get therapy, but I wish that you get a thesaurus.
It's 'dissent', not 'descent'.
>>25045273
You mean a dictionary, not a thesaurus.
I'm a Buddhist by the way :^)
>>25045273
Oh look, the literal Nazi is also a grammar Nazi too.
Except when it comes to his own post.
>>25045307
>You mean a dictionary, not a thesaurus.
No, I mean any book in which the proper spelling is given. Definitions are not necessary for learning spelling.
In fact, any book would do for that purpose, except maybe Watts' crap on how definitions are limited and you can't define this and that and that as well.
>>25045351
What mistake did I make?
Buddhists have been grasping at anything they could to ridicule my writing -- not only my use of parentheses and enumerations, but also my choice of single quotes and British spelling.
>>25045307
If you were a true Buddhist, then certainly you wouldn't be using the internet or technology, would you?
Come now...this is a material thing, is it not? Why are Buddhists, or self-proclaimed ones, hypocrites at their very core?
>>25045432
You forgot the 'in moderation' doctrine, very convenient.
'Aren't you a bit--'
'No! I'm doing it in moderation! And you don't get to define my moderation! It's my own personal moderation!'
>>25045453
Having fun there arguing with yourself?
>>25045432
I know this one is a troll.
But whatever.
No where in Buddhism is internet use prohibited. Nor is the exchange of information and communication.
>>25045453
>'in moderation'
Does this not sound like a justification for selfishness? For a religion that preaches the values of no-self, moderation is at its core a selfish way to justify these sort of choices.
>>25045492
>Having fun there arguing with yourself?
I wouldn't know. I have never had voices. Tulpas are Tibetan Buddhist inventions; I leave them for them.
>>25045495
Yeah but you're not allowed to sleep on a made bed and you need to beg for alms.
>>25040851
>Sam Harris
This is a joke
>>25045532
I'm not sure where you read that nonsense that doesn't apply to Buddhists
>>25045502
>Does this not sound like a justification for selfishness?
let me answer that before you answer it yourself.
No it does not.
Also your whole premise is false and this whole argument with yourself is mental masturbation based on a strawman for a imaginary argument.
single quotes anti-Buddhist retard is the reason why this board needs unique IDs
>>25045525
>mfw i realize someone literally typed this out and clicked post
>>25045567
It's one of the Eight Precepts dude.
>>25045502
You are right. As I have explained many times, not only ITT, the 'in moderation' is basically a pacifier of consciences: 'Let's whore around, just in moderation'. 'Let's speed, just in moderation.' 'Let's blast some music, just in moderation.' For Buddhists, 'in moderation' is basically an empty magical formula signifying a binary concession: 'okay, I took care to remind myself to do this shit in moderation, so I'm gonna make it... slightly... less harmful. okay. that said, let's have some fun.'
>>25045604
Yeah?
Which one is it?
>>25045532
I am not a Buddhist but even I know that you are referring to misinterpretations of rules for monks.
Not only do you think everyone that says anything against you is Buddhist, but you also think they are monks too.
I bet you don't even know the reason for those rules because you did not fully research shit.
>>25045689
>Not only do you think everyone that says anything against you is Buddhist, but you also think they are monks too.
I am not >>25045532.I don't use 'yeah'.
>>25045605
I want to thank you for making me laugh so hard.
You are arguing that moderation is a bad thing. No TV sitcom or youtube video could ever make me laugh as hard as your nonsense ever could
>>25045711
>I
>want
Notice the hypocrisy of the Buddhist. Not only did you break two principles, IE, acknowledging the existence of your self with by using 'I,' but you FOLLOWED it with 'WANT,' which violates your supposed straying away from desire.
Again, does Buddhist hypocrisy know no bounds?
>>25045605
Now you are just lying to make a point to yourself.
And this whole tangent you are having with yourself has no bases in realty anymore.
It is like you are trying to make a personal echo chamber out of your post.
You are so full of shit that it ain't even funny.
>>25045754
Why do you assume I'm a Buddhist?
Is it because you're a crazy person? I think it is.
>>25045784
>You are so full of shit that it ain't even funny.
It's a little funny though, I think it's hilarious. He's actually arguing against moderation. What's next?
>"I like green tea"
>"HAH! SUCH IS THE LIFE OF A BUDDHIST SNAKE, LOWERING THEMSELVES TO SUCH BINARY NON-CONCEPTS AS (1)LIKE AND (2)DISLIKE AND HAVING NO MOTIVATION TO PURSUE EARL GREY OR CHAI OR EVEN ROOIBOS TEA"
>>25045754
Buddhists are allowed to use languagein moderation ;)
>>25045711
>You are arguing that moderation is a bad thing.
In your Buddhist brain, it most certainly is so.But the elusive non-Buddhists ITT understand that an in itself moral claim can be used immorally. A trivial example which I think I have mentioned in a thread already: an abuser telling his spouse that 'there is value in forgiveness', so to get her to forgive him and stay with him. The claim is pretty arguably true, but it is invoked immorally. Or, a father telling a son 'grow up' after he had abused him, so to immorally avoid having to apologize to him. Similarly Buddhist 'everything is good in moderation' is used immorally e.g. to produce a semblance of actual moderation, 'oh, I have already done everything I should with respect to behaving moderately, I have done my part, I have earned my fun at this point'.
>>25045754
Getting closer, Buddhist impersonator, but you still have things to learn. I don't include punctuation in quotation.
>>25045849
>He's actually arguing against moderation.
And to witness a Buddhist lie being born to see perpetuated in more threads...
>>25045872
Please dont stop posting
