Why isn't /r9k/ not more left wing?
Isolation and alienation are products of capitalism. When our entire lives are mediated through work and the money-form we find it even harder to create proper, sincere relationships.
Your mental health problems aren't important in capitalism. Yet Liberation politics, feminism, anti-racism, anti-lgbtphobia - all promote mental healthcare, inclusion, a cessation of unnecessary labour, and bringing the means of production back to the worker so that your labour isn't stolen by your employer.
Capitalism, especially in it's neoliberal form, has reduced us to atomised, lonely individuals. This has helped allow misogyny and racism to prosper (protip: it all leads back to material, economic conditions). There are no longer conditions for community and comradery.
If there is truly to be a 'beta uprising.' It should be against capitalism. A concerted effort to solve your mental health problems, combined with creating organisations, networks and groups in which to combat the system seems much more in line with the typical robots means of getting happier rather than the edgy racism and misogyny that runs rampant here.
Also, how the fuck have /pol/sters convinced people that 'cultural marxism' and 'the frankfurt school' is interested in multiculturalism and the death of white people and all this random bollocks?
The Frankfurt School critiqued rationality under capitalism and how that was disseminated through culture. The idea of a mass culture being formed that diluted the distinction between high and low culture, due to the amount of commodities being mass produced is one of the key theories.
Robots. Racism, misogyny and homophobia won't make your life better.
I actually hate the term left wing. I think Marxist/Liberal are better distinctions. Don't be a disgusting liberal, be a Marxist.
>>24756685
>Why isn't /r9k/ not more left wing?
Because the left isn't anti-capitalist anymore.
Capitalists want migration to drive down wages, leftists want migration as well.
They used to be anti-Capitalist, now they have been given SJW tranny feminist bullshit as a placebo.
And I am opposed to women's rights.
bump your thread for you, friend
Hey Bernie!
>>24756703
Marxism in its endpoint is a stateless, borderless society. Liberalism utilises women's bodies as reproductive factories to balance slowing birthrates. It's a difference.
I think identity politics that has no dimension of class and economy is stagnant, paralysing bullshit.
Liberation politics that understands that black, female and lgbt liberation has to have a class dimension is the dominant narrative amongst compassionate and intelligent marxists.
Racism and misogyny exist as cultural artefacts with their origin being in material conditions.
Not believing in women's rights doesn't make sense mate.
>>24756730
Sander's is a social democrat and a reformist. Literally the same thing happened after the Great Depression in the 30s. A 98% tax over 750k was instigated to create federal jobs.
Like he's the best of a bad bunch, but his policies are pretty boring and non-revolutionary.
>>24756747
>Marxism in its endpoint is a stateless, borderless society
you forgot the part where it's brought about by bloody revolutions which have a habit of being hijacked by ambitious strongmen who co-opt the movement to consolidate their own autocracy.
>>24756788
Yeah certainly. The combined killcount of Marxism in the 20th century is like 150 million should we say?
18 Million people die every year due to preventable, poverty related causes. Capitalism eclipses any Communist state's death count.
When Lenin came to power he ended laws against gay people, promoted womens rights and made plans to move the means of production back to the workers by nationalisaing all private business. He declared that they had entered state capitalism, as the state not private interest had the means of production. Dismantling that structure was to be the next step. After his death and stalin's rise to power, the first thing he did was ban homosexuality as way to attract those in power who were made uncomfortable for the sudden change towards pro-gay rights.
Stalin then just never mentioned 'state capitalism' again but kept the same structure. We do all know that Russia lept from a pretty feudal state to a communist one without properly going through capitalism.
Communism is the next step from capitalism, not its opposite. It needs capitalism to create the conditions both cultural and material, for communism.
Mao's 'great leap forward' did the same thing, and China did end up becoming the economic powerhouse it is today. The pop. went from 550million to 900million.
You can't have communism in one country though, especially when the forces of capitalism are mobilised against it.
> unironically blaming capitalism for your failures as a human being
>>24756860
you don't think a system in which the majority of your labour and time is given to your employer as a profit doesn't make sense?
m8 cmon
>liking any form of anything
gtfo normies
>>24756900
seeing these lucid polemics shows me that no robot has any excuse for not being a lefty
>>24756857
>China did end up becoming the economic powerhouse it is today
It did so adopting liberal "capitalist" economic policies and embracing western capitalist democracies to attract their capital. "Communism" in china is an ideological cover for their one-party oligarchy. It's communist in name only.
>>24756893
You dont think you can move up the ladder/innovate and create your own business and be successful? Socialism is the ideology of the weak, who instead of working for success, want state enforced equality so that your supeeiors are brought to your level.
>>24756939
Well, it was due to Mao's structural changes to the largely rural, fuedal subsistence living that provided the bedrock for this.
I'm not a maoist in any way, but seeing china as being a result of communism is just being intellectually dishonest.
>>24756857
>18 Million people die every year due to preventable, poverty related causes. Capitalism eclipses any Communist state's death count.
You're assuming that, under communism, those diseases would have ever become preventable, and that there isn't going to be more poverty.
>>24756941
You can create your own business in communism. It just means that every single person who works in the business owns the means of production and takes home all of their productivity rather than having over half of it stolen by the employer.
I am for a universal basic income, in which every person, no matter their criminal record, gender, whatever gets a the same amount of money. Then, if you choose to work, you get exactly what you put into it.
Socialism is the transitional state between capitalism and communism. The state must ultimately dissolve.
Marxism isn't an ideology, its the science of history. Like Das Kapital is pretty much an objective, scientific reading of the commodity form and it's relation to labour.
>>24756685
>Promote mental health care
But not for us, look at the amount of domestic abuse centres for women vs men. As left progresses the exclusion between white man and other races and genders increases, as some top 1% white men stay in power they say every white man is privileged, and we get left even further behind.
>>24756976
Communism isn't an overnight thing it's a gradual process.
1) Diseases. The current capitalist system is interested in profit, not healthcare. In communism, or at least, under basic income, once every isn't worried about having to work to justify their own existence, we can dedicate resources towards elimating disease rather than maximising profit.
Apple are sitting on 200billion, Zuckerberg is putting 40billion into a private charity. There is enough money and resources for everyone on the planet, especially if we move towards automation over cheap labour.
>>24757015
> stolen by their employer
Stopped reading there. You are in so deep that you actually think this way. Holy fuck.
The point was that in capitalism, the best ideas thrive due to incentive. Innovation=wealth and success. In socialism, even the most braindead of workers is "equal".
FYI: an employer doesnt "steal" anything. You make an agreement to work for them in return for payment which is negotiable. If you think you can do better than your employer, you start your own business. You don't seem to even have a base level understanding of capitalism. I don't need socialism explained to me by the way, I've read many books on this topic.
>>24757021
I don't think thats true.
Whilst domestic violence against men is incredibly important, fatalities and abuse are much higher for women.
The thing is, it is mainly womens groups who create these centres. Where are the men doing this? Mens rights activism is a joke, because it is not activism for black men, or for gay men. It's a reaction against understanding the privilege that straight white men (and I say this as a straight white man) have.
I don't agree with every feminist action, policy or whatever. But feminists are killing people or inflicting structural violence on people.
Men have far higher suicide rates than women... where are the support networks for men? The left is not in power so you can't blame them for not providing.
>>24756685
you disgust me. fuck off back to reddit with your sick ideology
Jesus, what is with all the left wing and bernie shilling on this board today?!
>>24757137
I'm afraid to say it is, atleast in the UK. (This was my dissertation project)
In the UK 2012 we saw 45.4% of all Domestic Abuse cases leading to hospitalisation were Males, it got so bad that the government instead of increasing funding to male shelters, asked female shelters to accept male victims, which they did not.
There are plenty of male groups, but they don't recieve any government funding, unlike female shelters, because people are too stupid to see what is infront of them. Statistics are also hugely skewed as in a lot of cases where Males are killed by their significant others, the other will usually say it was in self defense, and with the "women = baby" system the courts follow they aren't included in statistics.
The problem is the left are not in power, but governments know if they listen and acknowledge left ideologies it looks good for them, you had Obama mention the 77c to the $ myth even though his economic advisor has done two or three papers disproving the concept.
Tldr; Men suffer from domestic abuse more then you think, male groups are there but are nearly completely privately funded. With the social ideologies we learn then most people think "Oh men can't be abused" and it just gets worse and worse.
why the fuck is he standing up with his legs like that, has he shat himself?
>>24757123
Lmao but capitalism leads to monopolies. Look at the glasses industry for example. The largest 15 brands are all owned by the same Italian company. Competition doesn't exist there.
Look at companies like Uber where they make the same as huge taxi companies but emply 1000 people rather than 30000.
Innovation has stalled. What has really changed for smartphones in the last 5 years other than power and speed. A thumbprint scanner?
I'll make it easy for you:
Labour is a commodity that the employer buys. The value of labour is that which keeps it alive.
I cost quid daily to stay alive. Including rent, rest, food, etc whatever.
I go into work and my employer has me working for the company where I generate 200quid a day. I am paid 50quid a day to stay alive. The rest of that is represented as the companies profit. That is my stolen labour time.
Capitalism is amazing for initial growth, but then it stalls and comes into crisis, aka 1930, 70's and 2008.
>>24757093
>we can dedicate resources towards elimating disease
That happens anyway.
>>24757093
>There is enough money and resources
Money doesn't make things be available. It's a way allocating limited resources. Imperfect as it is, it has a far better track record of fairness than command economies.
>>24757203
I don't know enough about the figures to dispute this, and if this is true then it is horrible. But don't you think creating allegiances with feminism in a way that says 'look, both men and women are treated horrible and in different ways under capitalism.'
That has never really been attempted in a meaningful way. It just descends into a shitflinging contest by a side too blind to see that the goals they are looking for are shared.
Also to think that the tory party want to adopt left policies is a joke when the cuts to disability funding, feminism in education, education grants, and the rest of the 12billion in cuts (when good old gideon spent 12.4 billion on a 140 fighter jets) are a reality that the vast majority of the uk have to face.
>>24757212
not in any meaningful way. Pharmaceutical and medical industries suppress antidotes until they are market ready so that they can maximise profit.
Pretty much all technological innovation is dependent on the market rather than being some sign of human progress. It increases asymmetrically.
It's the reason that rare diseases aren't researched enough, yet fat reducing pills are a monstrously huge industry.
>>24757254
Unfortunately that isn't how British culture is, our economy is fucked beyond belief with thousands of students stealing 30k every year which they will never pay back because they want the "University Experience"
Our economy is going down the toilet, and unfortunately we have too many minority groups slinging "all men are privileged" which lefties will follow to the death. I actually got told off in my 3rd year for opening a door for a female.
Labour wouldn't be any different, unfortunately until older generations die we will always see a Lab or Cons majority in or not in a split parliament. The free vote showed how the main parties don't care about their constituents.
>>24757209
> you consent to work for a specific wage
>you create work for a specific wage
> you complain that your work is stolen
> what you really mean is that you think you are more valuable than you are paid for
Either renegotiate your wage, find a new job or start your own business
Monopolies happen on existing industries, sure. But you seem to be mixing corpiratism with capitalism. You're so stupid that you pointed out a stagnant industry (smartphones) as proof that innovation is rare. The point is that when somebody innovates in that industry, they will create vast amounts of wealth due to their idea.
>>24756685
>Yet Liberation politics, feminism, anti-racism, anti-lgbtphobia - all promote mental healthcare, inclusion
Only for faggots, blacks and women. The left doesn't care about disenfranchised unemployed 20-something year old white men, which is 99% of /r9k/.
You kidding OP? I love bernie sanders. I'd love to sit at home collecting money for doing nothing. No debt, free healthcare when i eat myself into a coma...that'd be the life.
>>24757300
I agree with you that the UK economy is clean fucked. HSBC and Deutschbank are rumoured to want to leave London soon as well as many other big financial sector companies. The London property bubble is a fucking joke and everyone knows there is a bubble which is the most hilarious thing.
I do believe men are generally privileged over women, and I do believe that white people are generally privileged over other peoples. I don't despise white men, I don't know anyone within my university societies that do? This is a reactionary myth that is used to dismiss liberation politics and reaffirm power.
Anyway, the economy is more interesting to discuss.
Before 1987 not even international students paid uni fees. The reason uni's became marketed is because after the flood of new labour into the global market that China facilitated, cheap labour moved to the east.
In the UK we needed to marketise previously unmarketed areas. Hence say bye bye to a public NHS or University system. The Government's Green Paper proves this beyond all doubt.
>>24757393
I guess it depends which University you go too, I went to a very "SJW" campus, where I was stopped by people for being privileged, being white, being male, was called a rapist. I was relatively left before I went to University, but after being pushed to actually taking into accounts the "right" side aswell, I came to my own conclusions.
Economy is very interesting indeed, you can look at the LIBOR rates aswell and how they trend around that period. Theres no real hope for the UK at this point, just don't have any kids and leave nothing to end up with the final result that the UK will become.
>>24757308
Here is the market.
The employer is free to hire anyone and decide their wages. The labourer is free to sell their own labour.
The labourer has nothing to sell but there labour. The choice is sell your labour for whatever price the employer dictates, or starve on the streets.
Check the suicide levels after the government instigated 'fit-to-work' programmes. As I've said 18million die per year from preventable poverty related causes.
We live in a system in which it is legal to have food in your house whilst someone starves on your doorstep.
Obviously this is made more complicated by the welfare system, but you do realise that the 60 quid those people get per week is pure liquid assets that is pumped right back into the economy, whilst big corporations horde their profits in offshore accounts.
Also anyone who makes the distinction between corporatism and capitalism is a fucking dumbass. Capitalism's logic necessarily leads to monopolies and centralised wealth.
>>24756685
>Your mental health problems aren't important in capitalism.
They aren't important in socialism either, other than as a way to make rich women feel good about themselves.
>>24756685
Get. That cunt. OFF MY SCREEN!!! REEEEEEEEEEEE
>>24757446
Please don't use the term SJW seriously.
Like, I am aware that some groups do take things a little too far. But I am far more sympathetic to new feminist and anti-racism groups who are trying to raise awareness for systemic inequality and structural violence than groups that are openly bigoted.
Like these are new forms of thought trying to claw their way out of the dominant narrative.
But yeah the UK will face another recession within 10 years, a lot bigger than the last. 20% of the worlds labour is automated and there are no untapped labour markets left in the world. Either we give people money, or we automate them out of existence and leave them to die. Universal Basic Income or bust.
>>24756685
The other day I was browsing a car forum and this guy was posting hard about how we should vote for a certain left wing party in my country (elections are coming in 2 weeks). He posted the election program, I took a look and there were at least 30 points in which the party wanted to give rights to women, and only women or take rights from men, and only men. This included the right of women to denounce men and men having to proof they are innocent in case they want to get out of jail, and fathers being taken away their rights to see their children in case the mother ever denounces them, no questions asked (no need to prove they are guilty of anything). Homosexuals were also given special privileges. So even though our Constitution is supposed to ensure everyone gets equal rights, under that party the new citizen tiers would work like this: gay women > straight women > gay men > straight men.
I confronted him about it and he said I 'had no fucking idea', I was 'manipulating', that 'there is a lot of micro-oppression that has to be addressed', 'men should be concerned about their terrible history', etc.
I asked how it was ok to give birth rights to certain people and he stopped responding.
I don't know. It's weird. We have only had about 30 years of democracy and each decade it has changed for the worse. Both left wing and right wing parties are horrible in their own ways.
>>24757447
> the choice is sell your labour for what the employer wants or starve
Are you fucking retarded? Find a different enployer. If all the enployers are shit, get a loan or an investment and make your own company and product. This is my issue with you socialist retards, you are entitled morons. Evidently your labour isn't as valuable as you think it is--or you'd be paid well. If there are industries with shit pay, work in a different industry.
Don't even get me started on the fact that you think it should be illegal not yo give some homeless fuck up your own stuff. Talk about theft.
>>24756685
Regardless of which economic conditions you believe in, racism will happen either way. You could even argue that people are more racist under socialism, because they'd rather give to people who are like them.
Racism is caused by humans being tribal animals and that won't change.
>>24757488
I'm afraid to say there was actually a /soc/ on campus called "The SJWs"
I've seen some rational feminist debates, i've seen some irrational MRA debates. I don't feel a need to label myself to a group with bad eggs in.
I'm an egalitarian and thats all anyone needs to know to be truthfully honest. And as an egalitarian I respect both genders and all races have problems that need sorting out, focusing on one group persistently for 10-20 years while ignoring the rising issues of another isn't equality.
>>24757449
Just plain untrue. Like, theres not much here to dissect, but this is disingenuous bullshit.
>>24757330
Most of the lefty groups I have been a part of have had swathes of 20 something, unemployed or employed in unskilled labour white men.
Like, again, these are reactionary myths.
>>24756685
>>>/pol/ commie faggot
>>24756703
Why be opposed to women's rights? Modern feminism and the delusion of 'Social Injustices' is fucking ridiculous and annoying, but saying you think someone who is another gender is inferior just 'cos is stupid.
>>24757513
again, this is just a clear example of private property taking primacy over human life.
If I am paid correctly for my labour then the company should never profit. That is the point. Every person should get back exactly what they put into the company. If it goes to those in management then it is stolen.
>>24757517
just one of many examples of racism being created or enforced. https://medium.com/message/how-white-people-got-made-6eeb076ade42#.8zsq5lxmv
not that thats everything, but there are numerous historical accounts of race being created as a way to divide people and the material conditions surrounding them.
>>24756685
Because capitalism allows for solitude and individuality, while socialism is inherently centered on groups that I don't want to be a part of. Undesirables (such as socialists) are allowed to exist and live in capitalism, but anybody in a socialist system wanting to just live his life goes to jail.
And don't even get me started on the entire social justice crap the left is now perpetuating.
>>24757344
And this guy is just an idiot that doesn't understand long term consequences. Too many people think like you and all of a sudden nobody wants to do manual labor or jobs deemed to be below your standards and people actually doing something get taxed to hell and back, what do you think will happen?
>>24757447
This is also completely wrong. There is more than one employer, more than one kind of labor you can sell and you always have the ability to just become self-employed.
>Capitalism's logic necessarily leads to monopolies and centralised wealth.
No. Government supported monopolies preventing competition and removing any associated risks for existing companies creates corporatism.
>>24757607
You are drinking kool-aid, hard. Other thsn what your shitty manifesto says, provide a logical reason you are entitled to more thsn you agree to earn. It isnt theft if you agree to it you fucking moron. You sound like a fucking relugious nut.
>>24757523
The problem with egalitarianism is that it presupposes that people are equal to begin with. Feminism is a balancing process, as is anti-racism and anti-lgbtphobia groups.
Egalitarianism is the end ideology, but we are not there yet.
Is every feminist group a bastion of great ideas? No, but I've not seen a single feminist group worse than the very best examples of mens rights activism. Actually the best campaiging I've seen for mens rights has been through mental health feminism group, and anti-sexism political societies in my unviersity and the surrounding ones.
>>24756685
Capitalism is the only way women and minorities (as well as the working and middle classes in general) gained economic power and influence enough to push for civil rights. However now this same mob which so vigorouly pushed for their own rights is now using their power to exclude us from society. We creep them out the same way black people creep out racists, they don't seem to make the connection.
You have fallen into the liberal trap of believing "the people" are angels, which is obviously horseshit. Normies can be just as "dysfunctional" as evil capitalists if not more, the capitalist in his ivory tower somewhere doesn't give a fuck how autistic I am as long as I can do the job. They may even be as autistic as I am.
>>24757636
If a company profits it is stealing labour from its employers.
If a workers cooperative profits it is because each worker pledges what they can after selling their labour to help the company grow.
>>24757622
ok your first point. socialism would be happy for anyone to live in solitude. All I would ask is that you accept your basic universal income and then do what you like with that.
2) We have the technology to elimate manual labour. Or at least, unpleasant labour that is essential but people don't enjoy doing. Once we have a system in place in which that is automated then you are free to engage in that work if you want to, but you don't have to do so to justify your right to be alive.
3) addressed in my first point to the other poster.
>>24757652
I think thats where i respectfully disagree, i've been to countless debates between MRAs and feminist and usually one party favors stigmas and ideas and the others facts. It's fine to think something, but it's not to assume it as fact when data is against you.
If you have the time look at the Ted Talks by Deepika Bhardwaj, there are cases, even in the middle east where you automatically assume women are treated inferiorly, but they simply aren't anymore.
In the UK we see that from the age range of 20-30 women make more then men, quotas are making companies in some cases 2 to 1 more likely to hire equally educated women over men, or in some cases under educated women.
There are gender biases in both directions, both need to be sorted out. Would I mind if 100% of MPs were transexuals who were wolfkin, no, if they were the best for the job, it's fine for feminists to argue for female CEO positions, as long as they also argue for females in the more dangerous and disgusting professions that males do and get paid for.
>>24757667
The majority of people under capitalism are miserable, selfish and scared.
I want to elimate the need to do any unpleasant work, and the need to work to justify your right to be alive. People should put in what they want to society in cooperative, democratic ways.
>>24757205
Probably. Posh twat.
>>24757718
Again, ideology and dogma. Without any logic. Thanks for proving that you are religious and worship socialism
>>24757254
>believing any feminist would accept that ANY white man has rver had ANY hardship in jis life
This is pure comedy.
>>24757667
Things like sick leave, 8 hour shifts and other workers rights were pushed by socialists and worker unions while in the capitalism. And these rights are just in the west. In the Asia, aside from actual socialist countries where the revolution and striving for social change came from above, nothing came from the bottom like in the case of worker unions in the USA and Europe.
The workers pushed for their own rights because it was in their interest to not be overworked, and they thought it was a basic human decency to treat others with respect, and if their employer failed to do that, a different form of coercion into treating them reasonably was necessary.
The bourgeoisie do these "evil" things not because they are evil, but because they act in current circumstances in their own self interest. The evil capitalists are just very smart about what to do to profit.
Nothing evil about that, just a natural result of circumstances.
>>24757767
I love this use of the term logic as some sort of dismissive tool. MRA's, Nu-Atheists, FreeMarket loons are obsessed with this abstract term logic and reason, shoehorned into places in which it makes absolutely no sense, or is substantiated, as a way of justifying their own position.
I don't worship socialism. I believe that communism is the logical extension of capitalism because of the historical science done by Marx in the Grundrisse and Das Kapital.
>>24757722
There are numerous figures to prove wage disaparity, gender violence, how cuts adversely affect women, etc etc. If we're both too lazy to link then it's just gonna descend into a shitflinging contest and you have been one of the more polite and interesting commenters here.
On your last point, I would say that your concept of gender biases going both ways is true, but I see it as being filtered through capitalism, and by extension 'patriarchy.'
Feminists who want women to be ceos are scum to me, so I don't really give a shit about them. Business only exploits people.
What we need is to enforce proper taxation (fbook paid 4,327 pounds of tax for 2014), rent caps (otherwise london will collapse) and a basic income. Material conditions will necessarily generate fairer conditions for women, minorities and lgbtpeople, all of which are discriminated against in our society.
>>24757806
you've clearly never had any contact with feminists except through r/redpill and /r9k/
white men can face awful discrimination and hardship, but not because they are white or men.
>>24757836
socialists wouldn't have needed to push for these rights if the conditions weren't already horrendous.
in china right now, labour struggles have made the minimum wage rise by 300% in the last 10 years, to 15 dollars a week. cheap labour will soon be eradicated and we will either let people die or we will pay them for doing nothing, which is a radical paradigm shift to how we treat work and money, and life itself.
when the ceo of nestle says water isn't a human right, when the ceo of a famous peanut company knowingly ships salmonella tainted food and kills 9 people (he payed 28million as a fine which is a drop in his fortune) I have a feeling that a lot of ceos are evil.
But even if they aren't James Bond villain evil, they are the faces of an evil, alien, inhumane system. Humans are social animals, who acheived early civilization by cooperation not competition. Capitalism is the furthest thing from that.
>>24757878
There are figures that show if you account for job experience, age, time spent in occupation, education, and work hours, the gap shrinks to around 95+:100, it's a gap. But I and plenty of other economists believe this can be attributed to women planning to have children.
If for example, you are a military based robotics engineer. You're market and skillset are constantly evolving, a month off and you're practises have changed. If you are planning to promote a 30 year old man vs a 30 year old women, you have to take into account the women may or may not plan to raise a child, causing a period of time where she is away from work.
Thats my personal idea atleast, i'm sure there are employers who have bias for men, and others for bias with women, (STEM vs Nursing/Childcare ect)
I think we will just have to agree to disagree, there are plenty of valid MRA arguments, and if you have the time it may be enjoyable to read up on it.
Have a good day
>>24757752
Do you know what capitalism is? It's supposed to be something to do with the free market. But what you're talking about is something to do with the state. So for all we know you could be talking about corporate welfare, taxation and insane laws which increase government and its leeches' profit.
You can't define capitalism as broadly as "profit," that's too encompassing to make any sort of ethical assessment.
>>24757986
I am not disputing the innovating potentials of capitalism, neither am I saying that is hasn't produced great progress. It has reached its limit due to its own structural deficiencies and internal contraditions.
Capitalism is a process of production and circulation of commodities in which more commodities/innovations/tech is paid for by profit.
A commodity is raw material + human labour time. Labour is the only commodity that produces more value that it is worth.
The value I need is how much is costs to keep me alive, but the work I do in a day creates a profit that is kept from me and kept from those who employ me.
State involvement adds a layer of complexity to this, but doesn't take away from the fact that companies only operate on the profit motive rather than aiming to help people.
I'll try finding link where the big pharma ceo says 'we're in the profit business not the medical business.' It can be applied to all business in general.
The logic of capitalism necessitates growth and profit. It fails to realise that there is a finite amount of wealth and raw materials on the earth and for someone to be rich, other people have to be poor. This is a distinctly anti-human way to live.
>>24758076
>
Seems like you've bought into the zero sum myth breh. Entrepeneurs and innovators will always find a way to make the pie grow so everyone can have a whole slice for themselves instead of bickering over how to divide it a la socialism.
Modern society needs less resources for the same function, compare how much greener cars and computers have become over the years for example
https://archive.is/GUsze
If you were ever wondering why 20. century anticommunists would shoot socialists dead, now you know.
They're subversive scum.
>>24756685
the rest of the world is fucking garbage. fuck you guys. brown nosing, two faced, left leaning, cowardly ingrates eternally struggling to substitute family with government. i, for one, dont give a single fuck about what you rat bastards think of us. i wish i could wall off mexico. i wish i could wall off canada. i'd wall off the oceans if i could, build them so high and impregnable that not even planes or boats could pass. we let you live! that is your gift! we owe you nothing!
>>24757878
>asks why people here aren't liberal nutjobs
>gets promptly BTFO'd
>keeps trying
Boy even among robots, you truly are pathetic
>>24757607
>medium as a source
Boy you really are scraping the bottom of the barrel
I need to be put in my place, not given more choices. Only a more strictly defined social hierarchy could do that.
>le marxism is here for you straight white NEETs!
>meanwhile among the supposedly anti-idpol marxists on leftypol
>whites r evil, imperialism is a western identity, liberation movements for the middle-east and blacks, it's fascist to oppose third-world immigration to your country (unless it's whites going to africa), men who oppose sjw shit on non-marxist grounds are stormweenies
And that's without even going into the Maotists and their worship of non-whites.
>>24757254
>But don't you think creating allegiances with feminism
Feminist "allegiances" is about them co-opting your issues to claim that masculinity is the root of all your problems. Just see how retarded their stance on LGBT issues are, shitting on family and gender.
>>24756685
Liberals turned their backs on me. Fuck em.
>be a liberal!
>ok
>fuck cis white men, fuck capitalism, yeah immigration! gun control! world peace weed lmao if you're not a feminist u r evil\ lol fuckin loser neckbeard neet XD
>bye
>no wait come back we help neets
>>24756685
>Isolation and alienation are products of capitalism.
[citation needed]
>feminism, anti-racism, anti-lgbtphobia - all promote mental healthcare, inclusion, a cessation of unnecessary labour
Nope, that just creates ultra individualistic special snowflakes and further isolates people from one another. Fuck off and kill yourself.
>Capitalism, especially in it's neoliberal form, has reduced us to atomised, lonely individuals.
[citation needed]
>Also, how the fuck have /pol/sters convinced people that 'cultural marxism' and 'the frankfurt school' is interested in multiculturalism and the death of white people and all this random bollocks?
Who the fuck cares about /pol/... kill yourself.
>Robots. Racism, misogyny and homophobia won't make your life better.
No, but fighting the mentality that has made everyone their own little special snowflake that needs special treatment surely will.
>Don't be a disgusting liberal, be a Marxist.
And this is where I tell you to kill yourself.
>>24757752
>I want to elimate the need to do any unpleasant work, and the need to work to justify your right to be alive
Why is that a bad thing? Why should the human life have any value other than what labor can give it?
>>24757752
>cooperative, democratic
You might as well say "today class we need to work in pairs, everyone find a partner".
I can never be equal. The normies would never accept me as one of their own even if you attempted to enforce equality. My only chance of happiness in life unfortunately involves me trying to earn more than the other plebs, which in economic terms is inequality but in terms of happiness is only fair.
>>24757836
I think it was more unions, socialists just created red scares and muddied the water if anything. I don't really have a problem with open shop unions, abstractly it does not contradict capitalism but conservatives seem to always be complaining about unions so I'm probably alone on this.
Any my point is under capitalism I am at the mercy of someone who judges me by merit while under socialism I am at the mercy of the mob, and judging by how the mob has treated me so far that probably isn't very well. I would love to live in your fruity utopia, I am just being realistic.
>>24756685
nice posing chap
>>24756685
I oppose capitalism but I'm not left wing
>>24756685
because i can live a quality life under capitalism. because im not some liberal who is willing to revert a great country into a 3rd world indian toilet because of muh feelings
>>24757607
>If I am paid correctly for my labour then the company should never profit.
So you think the machinery and overheads used by labourers should be free, and whoever provided them should be uncompensated.
>>24756730
Aww i cant be mad at anne rice
Shes sweet, yet dumb
>>24757393
>I do believe men are generally privileged over women
>and I do believe that white people are generally privileged over other peoples
>I don't know anyone within my university societies that do?
>within my university societies
The New Left in a fucking nutshell.
Internationalism is the root of all alienation.
>>24757622
>And this guy is just an idiot that doesn't understand long term consequences. Too many people think like you and all of a sudden nobody wants to do manual labor or jobs deemed to be below your standards and people actually doing something get taxed to hell and back, what do you think will happen?
You'll call for them to be replaced by third-worlders, just like you're doing now.
Fuck off, leftypol.
>>24756967
Communism would have had a chance in china if mao wasn't such a fucking idiot and so fucking incompetent. Just a cursory knowledge of metallurgy and logistics would have done them so well.
>>24757123
lmao.
>The point was that in capitalism, the best ideas thrive due to incentive. Innovation=wealth and success. In socialism, even the most braindead of workers is "equal".
>selfie stick is innovation
Capitalism doesn't incentive innovation, the profit motive is inefficient and incentives greed. In socialism, perhaps a stupid worker wouldn't be equal to a smart one, but he'd have a bare minimum of his needs guaranteed just like the smart one.
>an employer doesn't "steal" anything
When you work for an employer, you are creating some kind of product or commodity, the employer doesn't make this, you do. Because the employer must make some kind of profit, he sells that product, gives you the lowest amount of money you will agree to work for, and then takes the rest of that products value for himself. The question is, what claim does the employer have to that surplus value? The capitalist logic is that the machines and other things necessary to make the product are a part of the employer's private property. Communists and socialists wish to change this, so that private property no longer exists, only personal property. The only things you own are the things you use, and whatever you produce with your personal property belongs to you in its total value.
>>24757330
There are some of us who wish to change that.
>>24757667
That was identity politics m8, something the capitalists love since its so easy to co-op.
>>24756685
Because left has largely been poisoned by sjws. And because anyone with half a brain doesn't want to create the hugbox most of the current generation of "left" people wants.
That would only serve to make society even more decadent. We actually need to set a collective goal for humanity, and we need to throw out the retarded values that are now hundreds and thousands of years old. They didn't evolve to fit a progressive humanity, they can only be used to perpetuate the status quo. However, our humanity in the current sense is something that must be overcome. For this, conflict of new ideas is necessary. Screaming "love, tolerance, pronouns, YOU GUYS ARE TRIGGERING MEEE WHERE'S MY HUGBOX" doesn't help.
Sjws poisoned every good movement. They destroyed a sensible push for equality barring biological differences, including the abolition of female social privileges, and turned it into "women are superior". They destroyed occupy by somehow managing to scream about otherkin and headmates and all that bullshit on LIVE TV, AS REPRESENTATIVES OF THE MOVEMENT. Etcetera etcetera.
Fuck modern lefties and fuck our collective decadence. I want the simple goals like "freedom" back.
>>24760195
This is a good pose and a good post
I'm against anything that wants to give women rights just on that principle alone. Most people in general don't deserve rights, but women are by far the dumbest and most socially destructive class of people. They need to be restrained.
>>24756770
>Like he's the best of a bad bunch, but his policies are pretty boring and non-revolutionary.
I'm ready for a boring politician tbqdesu. I just want to catch up with the rest of the first world countries and stop worrying about being homeless.
>tfw my yuro and canadian roommate can't get over the fact that I can't just go to the doctor when I want and that there are homeless people everywhere
embarassing.png
>>24761563
>most people don't deserve rights
wew lad. I hope you realize that if that sentiment was mainstream, the first people they'd strip of rights would be robots.
>>24760102
Stop mixing up identity politics with liberalism
I'm economically far left and socially conservative desu
>>24761596
neo-liberalism is pretty much nothing but idpol. Fortunately, leftist does not equal liberal.
>>24756685
The thing I love most about Marxists is that they claim capitalism is the cause of all problems without ever explaining the mechanism for which Capitalism causes all these things and always predicts results of capitalism that have never happened solely because Marx believed it would
>>24761592
Good thing I'm not one anymore I suppose
>>24757330
>The left doesn't care about disenfranchised unemployed 20-something year old white men, which is 99% of /r9k/.
That is literally the demographic that Bernie Sanders wants to help
the first thing he always talks about is unemployed youth. Then he breaks it down by race but he doesn't just gloss over that white people are struggling.
>>24761596
Modern liberalism is identity politics
>wanting to be liberal
>wanting to identify with a group of people that hate white dudes because?
>wanting to increase taxes to pay for more social security which goes to sex having women who take advantage of the system
>>24761770
>Its not Jews, its women!
This would have been satire not even a year ago. What happened?
>>24761770
>implying liberal = leftist
>>24761770
>liberial being leftist
>being this stupid
>>24756703
The conservatives want to take away your welfare/NEETbux. They want to depress wages for the working-class and downgrade your medicaid coverage and social services for the benefit of the shareholders. It's suicidal for NEETs and the working-class to vote conservative. If you care about your self-preservation as a NEET/working-class person, you'd vote for someone who cares about their interests. Like Bernie Sanders.
What do you mean when you say that you are opposed to women's rights?
>>24756685
>shilling feminism under the pretense of anticapitalism
this is exactly why robots aren't leftist
>>24761870
>what happened?
cancer
Do you have any proof of this OP?
This is why sociology is the worst.
>>24756941
Good goyim, work an extra 20 hours a week for me and I might give you that promotion.
>>24762581
i think anon was talking about femninsm in places where you'll be stoned to death for showing more skin than your eyes
I was a leftist during university. It's all the same shit, all the cute girls only wanted to have sex with student union leader Chads. I'd say communism is worst for robots because it is based in social connections and personal relationships more than anything. At least with money we can buy things, but imagine if we lived in a gift economy where everything you have must be acquired through personal connections? We would starve.
>>24762628
Don't blame the field of Sociology for the actions that sociopolitical radicals do under the guise of "conflict theory".
Sociology would be a really cool subject if it ever focused only on studying humans and how they interact in groups and societies instead of allowing radicals to write crackpot theory under the guise of Sociology.
Durkheim was a sociologist. Marx was not, and people should try to disassociate the two
>>24761614
That's the only rational option for a robot.
Why care about principles? I will defend whatever benefits me.
>>24756685
Because like most people, /r9k/ believe the left/right dichotomy. They believe to be 'left wing' you must be pro increased spending (or even taking industry into social ownership) AND pro immigration. They believe to be right wing you must be pro-reducing spending AND anti-immigration or even outright racist.
They fail to see you can be pro increased spending and anti-immigration, or pro-reducing spending and pro-immigration. That you can pick and choose pieces of any ideology and fit them together into your own worldview.
>>24756730
too much alcohol and vampire lust
>>24762695
This, in capitalism I can atleast use my autism to obsess about something usefull and get exceptionally good at it and make a bunch of money. In communism you are only the state bitch and you have no way to climb the social or economical ladder. What good is "equal" pay and resources(everone is as poor as the other person) if you cant have equal social status and equal sexuality.
>>24756941
>You dont think you can move up the ladder/innovate and create your own business and be successful?
No, because social mobility is largely a myth (the impression being caused by rising living standards pushing some of the working class into the lower-middle-class. Or at least, making them view themselves as such due to union breaking and moving towards service industries in the western world.) and there are more people than job vacancies in most western countries.
Can some people get ahead? Yes. Can everyone? No.
Before you get uppity, I'm still a capitalist. I just believe in basic income to mitigate the worst of our current economic structure.
>>24757622
>anybody in a socialist system wanting to just live his life goes to jail.
In Soviet socialism. There are other types of socialism.
Socialism with basic income (social dividend) would allow for solitude.
>>24757636
>you agree to earn
Because your agreement is coerced on pain of starvation. There is a surplus market of labor out there. If you refuse a job, the employer moves onto the next guy. If an employer refuses you, and indeed if all employers refuse you, you starve.
>>24762798
People need to stop associating the state capitalism of the ussr with communism. Under real communism and socialism, you'd still receive benefits from obsessing over and getting good at stuff. Good luck climbing the ladder in a world where only the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.
>>24757986
>It's supposed to be something to do with the free market
You can have market socialism.
>>24756685
>Your mental health problems aren't important in capitalism. Yet Liberation politics, [...] all promote mental healthcare, inclusion, a cessation of unnecessary labour [..]
Your mental health problems aren't important in socialism, communism, fascism, or any other system. Remember that slogan of the Soviet Union, he who shall not work, neither shall he eat. Fascism and Naziism are harsher than that.
Under any economic system the people, and the leadership, will want to see you paying your way in society. And to someone who isn't mentally ill, saying you are just sounds like so many excuses. Anger at freeloaders, real or suspected, will always outweigh sympathy and altruism for strangers.
>>24762942
This. If workers control the means of production, socialism can allow for markets.
>>24762966
If there was a basic universal income, it wouldn't matter if people were pissed about your mental health problems or if they thought you were free loaders.
>>24762966
>he who shall not work, neither shall he eat
Comes from the bible.
Soviet Union is a different ballgame to any modern type of socialism - the Russia was an undeveloped fedual shithole that got their asses kicked by the Japanese, a country a fraction of their size.
Market Socialism or Social Democracy are the ideal economic systems - Market Socialism leaning more towards socialism while allowing for non-exploitative free enterprise, Social Democracy essentially being kind capitalism. Both would ideally have some kind of basic income while utilizing consumerism to encourage people to work. People could work lower hours with other people filling in the necessary extra time (since there are more people than jobs.)
>>24756685
Because the left is full of faggot sjw who think they are liberals when they are fascists who want to ban/censor everything that hurts them
Funny how that used to be religious conservatives and no one cared about them.
>>24763028
I like the idea of market socialism within democratic con-federalism. See what the kurds are doing in syria.
>actually kinda identify with national socialism
>however, I'm against the imperialistic and irredentistic policy of Nazis
>don't hate blacks nor Slavs
>your usual run of the mill nazi is just an incredibly racist small-governmenter
>all left wingers I've met are huge SJWs
>tfw no group to belong to
>>24763062
>See what the kurds are doing in syria.
Being shot by the filthy Turks?
>>24762923
Well I live in Europ in a semi socialist country and they dont just give you free shit and leave you alone, if you want money you are allways forced to associate with people you rather would not, nothing is free and they allways put rocks in your path if you try to leech off and isolate yourself. In comparison its probably more easy getting wellfare money or autism bux in USA that is comperatively more capitalist than my country. Socialist countrys inherently turn into forcing you to do all their stuff that you would rather not if you want to have their "benefits", so in the end you rather feel like working or doing freelance instead all that shit the state/job centre etc is throwing at you. Its probably some inherent structural problem.
>>24763092
Just cuz turks (and erdogan especially) are assholes doesn't mean what the PYD is doing is probably the best hope for democracy and socialism in the middle east.
>>24763062
>See what the kurds are doing in syria
A nationalist military dictatorship under the YPG?
>>24763028
>Russia was an undeveloped fedual shithole that got their asses kicked by the Japanese
When will this meme ever end.
>>24763021
Actually it would, since for most people, little makes them angrier than seeing someone else not contribute while they do. That's why welfare programs come with strings attached making you look for work, limiting you to spending the money on essential things, and so on. Remove those and the people who are working, for whatever reason, say "Why should I be forced to pay for someone who refuses to?" That's a basic human impulse.
>>24763101
Looks promising.
I can see myself taking part in some serious discussions, ayy.
>>24763107
>Its probably some inherent structural problem.
Yeah, it's porky trying to exploit your surplus labor.
>>24763153
wew lad
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/50102294-77fd-11e5-a95a-27d368e1ddf7.html
>>24763066
>>your usual run of the mill nazi is just an incredibly racist small-governmenter
it's a bit ironic since the Third Reich had an absolutely enormous, sprawling government bureaucracy. It was the very opposite of small, limited government
the american dream
>>24763166
So? Screw them? Come on comrade, join the revolution so we can make ubi a reality!
>>24763251
I'm sure they had some good things to say about Bolshevik-style "Soviet democracy" in 1917 too. How did that turn out?
>>24756685
>communist mindfuckery is the way to go
I'll give it an 8/10, pretty good effort though you would reach more people if you compressed the post. I especially like the part where you create the false dichotomy of marxism vs racist homophobic musoggyknees redneckneckbeard.
>>24756685
>Why isn't /r9k/ not more left wing?
I am, though it seems like there are a lot of stormtards here
>>24763164
>They had a few cities with factories, this totally makes up for the fact that their industrial power was weaker than much smaller and less populated European nations!
>>24763342
You can thank stalin for that, not then lenin was perfect either. Right now, the leader of the PKK is in a turkish prison, so not really ripe for a dictatorship.
>>24763340
>So? Screw them?
if you want your system to have even the pretense of "consent of the governed" then that isn't an option
>>24763210
you might also like bunkerchan friend
>>24762695
Where are you getting this idea that communism is a "gift economy"? That's libertarianism. You have to rely on the voluntary donations of others in a libertarian society. Because they don't believe it's moral to force people to pay taxes to the government to fund economic redistribution programs.
You misunderstand what communism is. Communism can only happen in a post-resource scarcity society. In communism, everyone can do whatever work they want and work as little or as much as they want. Access to resources does not depend on the economic value of your work because in a post-scarcity society, there are plenty of resources to go around.
Now with socialism, which is the transitional phase before communism where society still has resource scarcity, all of the revenues go directly to labour. There are no shareholders/private owners of the means of production profiting off the backs of labour. With workers getting all of the pie instead of a big chunk of it going to the shareholders/owners, you won't have to labour as much under socialism as you would in capitalism in order to make a living.
The downside with socialism though is that NEETs will have to labour if they are declared fit to work. Socialists might agree to pay out a modest livable income to people who are declared unfit to work. The Soviet Union of course threw people like this in the gulag or killed them. Only the tankies believe in that sort of thing. Socialists today don't. It's my personal belief that everyone should be paid a basic income regardless if they labour or not. And even if able-bodied persons had to work, they won't have to work 40 hour work weeks in a socialist first world country. Because the labourers will have the entire revenue pie. They won't have to give a massive cut to the owners of the means of production/shareholders. Because they are the owners of the means of production.
>>24757622
>Undesirables (such as socialists) are allowed to exist and live in capitalism
Not really dude
The "undesirables" of capitalism are the poor, homeless and disabled who are left on the streets
>>24763376
Majorities are built through coalitions m8. UBI is just a part of a much larger leftist agenda which can appeal to a lot of people.
>>24763354
man you haven't seen stormfaggots until you've seen 8ch (it's a censorship hellhole)
>>24763385
To each according to their need, comrade. Even if we don't have ubi, neets will still have a standard of living above poverty.
>>24763408
Only pol really, I don't know of many other boards that are that ban happy.
>>24763432
>tfw /k/ is literally just gunner joe and terrified
>>24763454
gghq has gotten out of hand recently i'd say (probably because /pol/'s been leaking
>>24757513
>get a loan or an investment and make your own company and product.
You really think that every person has to offer their own supreme product? I'll give you an example from myself. I'm working in the printing industry and it's obviously dying out. Now what? Your suggestion is that I just should start my own business? You think that everyone is as creative as a Markus Persson?
Sry, but that is some top-tier bs right there.
I'm pretty left wing. Democratic socialist, anti war (for the most part) anti police brutality.
But at the end of the day I'm a social and cultural libertarian, and lately the left has become over-run with authoritarian crybaby fuckheads who want to censor art, humor, videogames and everything that makes this miserable fucking life slightly less miserable, so fuck 'em.
I'd rather chill here with people who are to the right of me, but can take a damn joke without exploding into hysterics.
I'm relatively left-wing when it comes to a lot of things. I'm firmly pro-evolution over creation in that debate, I'm an ethical vegan, I'm a tree-hugging hippie, I'm voting for Bernie if it comes down to it (HIllary's corrupt as fuck, admit it), I'm pro-pot and pro-hallucinogen, and I'm pretty socially liberal in general.
I'm surprisingly right-wing as regards guns, though, and I'm not sure I'm totally communist as far as economics go. You can't hate big business without hating the government, too.
>>24763790
>over-run with authoritarian crybaby fuckheads who want to censor art, humor, videogames and everything
That's all ends of the political spectrum these days, it seems. they just want different things censored
>>24763790
Many people in letypol feel similarly. I have a theory that lots of people are like that. Come check us out if you want to be a part of an anti-idpol leftist community.
i must admit that i'm communist but i believe things personal property belong to the people and that people of other ideologies should have their fair say though things like democracy must be fixed
>>24763790
To be fair there are plenty on the right who rage over shit like mentioning abortion, taxes, deficit, guns, etc. I'd consider that "political correctness"
All in all there is no constructive discourse at all
>>24756685
Because the left are the new puritan asshats and women run the show in the left. It also refuses to acknowledge male problems.
>>24763790
as the world runs head first into ecological, economic, and imperial disaster i find it harder and harder to care one way or another if some stupid teen girls want to shout about being triggered in their college classes
the "right" is the most political correct force today. Mention how austerity doesn't work, that terrorism doesn't appear from the vacuum of a brown person's mind, or that climate change is accepted science and see them explode in a rage hotter than 1,000 Tumblr Suns.
>Be me
>oppose capitalism and big business
>socialist leaning
>classified as far right because I don't want to fill my country with sand niggers
I don't even know what right wing and left wing are supposed to mean anymore. Am I just a giant retard or has it shifted from being about whether or not the means of production are state or privately owned to being about how much you like minority cock.
>>24763998
Fedora tip to you, sir.
Meanwhile, Donald Trump is leading in the GOP polls.
> fix it jesus
>>24757015
>Marxism isn't an ideology, its the science of history.
Okay, now I know I'm being trolled. Carry on faggot.
>>24764136
the forces of capital want you to be terrified of foreign born labor. fascism is the product of capitalist pressure on the petit bourgeois and the petit bourgeois responding by punching down to hold on to what little they have. The solution is the same to this problem as it is to all others: Workers of the World Unite.
I'm mostly left leaning in my ideas, but I hate liberals and SJWs so much I vote conservative.
FREE HEALTH CARE NOW
>>24764412
the time-tested strategy of "shooting my nose to spite my face". Love It.
>>24756941
Only one person can use a ladder at a time, but they weren't thinking about that when they invented that metaphor for you to parrot back at anyone with an original thought on the matter.
>>24756976
Those diseases and starvation are already preventable. We already have enough food to feed everyone, we have th ability to vaccinate everyone and to treat all preventable diseases. No doubt there are diseases we do not have the ability to cure, but I.imagine that cures for disease would come more easily in a socialist economy.
>>24763510
Feels good to be an anar/k/ist-/k/ommunist
>>24764412
vote communist
>>24764412
>>24763962
>>24763790
I agree that the authoritarian special interest group crybabies (SJWs) who have invaded the left-wing need to fuck off. If you feel the same, feel free to post on my 8ch board /leftwingpol/. I make it specifically clear in my mission statement that the left has alienated working-class white heterosexual cis males and it's important that we offer the olive branch to this group. Considering that whites make up the majority of the west, heterosexuals make up the vast majority of whites. And males are half of that.
It's suicidal for the left to continually tell white heterosexual cis males to fuck off. They have been moving over the conservatives in droves since the 60s. If the left-wing was more friendly to white heterosexual men, the Conservatives/Republicans would never win again.
/leftypol/ recently bump-locked a thread about cultural appropriation. And they deleted my thread about the UK shifting the legal onus on men to prove their innocence when they are accused of rape by women. Therefore turning the legal system into a kangaroo court where heterosexual males are guilty until proven innocent. But I guarantee that you have an ally in /leftwingpol/. I consider myself pro-women's rights, anti-racist and pro-gay/trans. And I'm very libertarian on social issues. But I don't tolerate anti-white heterosexual cis male bigotry from the left.
>>24756730
They call her the meme master
>>24765054
They get locked and deleted because people are sick, tired, and suspicious of the constant flood of "BUT WHAT DO WE DO ABOUT SJW'S/FUCKING LEFTIST SJW'S" literally all the time. Just look at the catalog on any given day.
CUT THE BALLS.
>>24756857
>comparing 18 million per year to 150 million in all of the twentieth century
please kill yourself, retard
because most of r9k is upper middle class white normies
>>24765303
My personal view is that we need to organize politically somehow. I don't know how. I want to go into politics. But I'm too thin-skinned to put up with the pincer attack assault from both the right and the very vocal SJWs on the "left". Politics is so fucking polarized, it's madness. In order to survive in politics in 2015 you need to either be a social justice warrior or a stereotypical right-wing conservative.
It seems like to be a viable candidate on the left these days you need to be a social justice warrior. Social democracy, let alone democratic socialism, is completely fucking optional on the left these days. As a working-class white heterosexual cis male, I just can't fucking take it anymore. I am not a fiscal or social conservative. I'm not a conservative. I don't want to be a conservative. I wish the SJWs would stop fucking with us and let us organize politically.
MY GOD PURE IDEOLOGY
>>24765715
Thats why we do away with trying to look good politically, direct action is the only action worth taking comrade
Revolution when, beta uprising when
>>24765802
What direct action would we be able to take without trying to influence a political agenda? Whether by going into politics directly. Or supporting candidates who preach our ideology. The working-class isn't going to violently overthrow the bourgeoisie anytime soon. The Prison-Military-Surveillance-Industrial Complex is way too powerful for that.
Like I want to get into politics and promote a leftist agenda that focuses on class issues and not the SJW shit. But the last thing I want are Tumblr/Reddit/twitter SJWs posting my address and burning my house down. And posting my phone number and issuing death threats to me and my family. Fuck that shit. They are fascists. But just because I hate the fascists on the left doesn't mean that I would support the fascists on the right. They too would go after me because I don't subscribe to their fiscal and social conservatism. It's like a fucking lynch mob. You have to be a sheep that doesn't think for yourself. You have to tow the party line or else. It's fucking madness.
So yea I'd hesitate to get into politics. I just agitate online. Try to spread class consciousness, agitate for things like UBI, public health care (while denouncing private health care), nationalization of certain industries, etc. point out the absurdity of IDpol/SJW stuff. I sometimes try to agitate in RL in my personal life. But when I show my socialist power level, it scares people away.
My dad recently said that in Canada "everything is about money." He says that the government doesn't do enough to serve the people. He's getting more increasingly red-pilled after retirement. Once he realized that he gave decades of his life to porky for the privilege of mere survival and dopamine hits and now he might have diabetes and can't enjoy pizza, pasta, sweets, etc. anymore, he's starting to realize that life is a scam.
>>24757622
>Because capitalism allows for solitude and individuality, while socialism is inherently centered on groups that I don't want to be a part of.
That's actually the opposite of the truth. In capitalism, you are forced to participate in society in multiple ways, the main one is needing to get a job (otherwise you will starve to death). Communism allows for a much greater degree of personal autonomy, contrary to popular perception.
>>24764203
The vast majority of Marx's writings were on history and examining why things happened the way they did. The primary "ideology" of marxism is where it takes these historical tendencies and the reasoning for them and applied them to our time to extrapolate and figure out where we'd end up.
Because left wing= Reddit /thread
EVERYTHING SHOULD BE FREE
>>24766620
Yes, because negotiating with a state institution is much better than with a private company. Also in Communist countries being a NEET was A FUCKING CRIME. IT WAS ILLEGAL TO BE A NEET, YOU WENT TO JAIL FOR BEING 'WORKSHY'. You had to PAY A FUCKING TAX if you didn't have a wife and kids. THERE WAS A BACHELOR'S TAX AND BEING A NEET GOT YOU SENT TO PRISON. OUTSIDE MEDIA WAS BANNED, WAIFUS WERE ILLEGAL.
Don't speak about communism if you never lived it. And don't say BBUT IT WUSENT MY VERSHUN OF COMMUNISM!!! Communism is all shit because its entire conception of history is materialistic in nature which is garbage. Communism = slavery. Capitalism is not sunshine and roses but at least I can
>>24767291
hit enter too early, I was going to say at least I can go to Subway and have a nutritious and deliciuous sandwich made by a professional sandwich artist.
>>24756703
this. also, though feminist marxists want redistribution, they mean that white male property will be redistributed. so actually, they'd be more likely to take the few things we can acquire under modern state capitalism for themselves, and send any man who objects to a gulag
I am
I'm a national socialist
Because race exists and is more than skin deep.
>>24767353
Honestly I dont get this idea that crazy feminists are going to be a big part of revolution. Most of them are unable to fight and will probably get wiped out if they tried. Not to mention with people becoming class conscious they'll also learn about the evils of identity politics meaning feminazis will most likely be subject to humiliation/violence
I'm not into the whole authoritarian, pro censorship thing, sorry. Nor am I into the pretense that feminism is actual about equal rights and not just a cult of angry man-haters who want even more rights for women while still retaining their special protections given to them by society and the law. I'm pretty moderately left wing as far as things go, but I'll never be stupid or gullible enough to drink your kool aid.
>>24767626
>reactionaries not understanding communism: the post
>>24756703
>And I am opposed to women's rights.
I lol'd hard.
To be a right winger is to be evil or dumb. That's /r9k/.
If you're not a robot doing great in education and stem due to solitude, you are really fucking goofing. Really fucking goofing.
left wing politics right now isn't even about economics. It's about retarded social policies aimed against for the most part white men
they don't care about our problems and try to spin it as our own fault. If anything, the normies which constitute these groups are the same people who put most of us down throughout our life via social networking. It's pure talk when it comes to actual equality beyond a few minorities
capitalism cannot be blamed for this directly. Previous anti-capitalist movements have led to full retard economic policies that helped practically no one.
also. Unemployed men as a demographic become more closed, resistant to change and angry over time. A right wing agenda fits perfectly with this mental viewpoint. And it's totally deserved, because the normies are the ones who brought most of us down here
>>24768077
>the five year plans helped practically no one
C'mon, i'm an anarchist and even I realize that those vastly improved life in russia.
>>24768296
different era in history my friend. Industrialization benefitsfrom command economy. Not wealth generation
I'm not particularly against communism, but economically this method has done very bad without a market to complete with
>anarchism
>viable
>>24768077
I understand that unemployed men are pissed off. But once your parents die and once the right-wing conservative government takes away your NEETbux, you guys are completely screwed. So you might as well vote for the NEETbux at least so that you can support yourself when your parents die.
I try to reply to politics threads on /r9k/, but almost every single post here is completely wrong about something or uses completely fallacious logic. Usually I would pick on one person and take it from there, but this thread is especially bad.
I know that unregulated capitalism is retard and that income inequality is at all time high . I'm frustrated that the mainstream left continues to support bigots under the guise of equailty .The Femnisim thing is the most frustrating .Any male can see that Femnisim is sexist trash that has no interest in achieving true gender equality but the left won't let them go . I can't even count the number of times I'm reading a great article on a leftist magazine and then there's bizzare out of place paragraph about "neckbeards" and "the pay gap" . Even Bernie Sanders talks about the gender pay gap myth and he is the only mainstream politician that has ever tried to offer an olive branch to neets . Its just depressing . The right is going to destroy America and all the left cares about is dick sucking and the "male gaze".
>>24771837
Yea I'm from /leftypol/ and agree that the "gender pay gap" is full of shit. Women want to take time off to pop out kids. They take more personal days off to be with their kids when needed. They work shorter hours so they'd have more time with their kids. They want more flexible hours. So they'd be able to be there for their kids. Women are less likely to want to take on the dangerous jobs. Less likely to do manual labour jobs. There are so many "marks" against women. Of course they are going to be making less money.
Now it's true that there is some sort of glass ceiling. But if you're going to hire a CEO and that CEO is expected to put in 60 hour work weeks, I can understand why women with children or likely to have children in the future would get overlooked. Since women are usually the ones expected to take on the caretaker role. Sure every once in awhile you come across the stereotypical "super mom" who is both a CEO and a mommy. But they are a token. It's not easy to balance career and motherhood.
Also let's be frank, how many women even really want to be CEO? That's a 60 hour a week kek job.
>>24772223
To Add: Now don't get me wrong (hold your pitchforks SJWs), I consider myself a male feminist (my definition of feminism is just not the same as SJWs). But women bitching and moaning about how their husbands don't do enough childcare/caretaker duty sounds a lot like to me that women are selecting the wrong male partners. If you want a feminist hubby, don't get knocked up by Chad. Don't marry Chad. Chad is not a feminist. Chad is not a childcare/caretaker type. If you want an equal split in childcare and caretaker duties, marry a male feminist who believes in that sort of thing. If your husband's reluctance to help with child care is the reason why you can't get a higher salary at work, then START MARRYING BETTER GUYS. DON'T GO TO THE GOVERNMENT BEGGING THEM TO FORCE EMPLOYERS TO PAY YOU THE SAME AS HUBBY.
Women choosing Chads and Cads and assholes over the nice guys are ending this fucking race. Me personally I don't want to get married or have kids. I'm not a c uck. I consider myself to be somewhat of a MGTOW (though I do have a girlfriend. But we might break up because she is insane and driving me bananas). But I'm not cool with women hiding behind the gun of the state forcing employers to pay them the same as men. When they don't deserve to be paid the same as men because they don't provide equal work of equal value.
And yes you just heard a /leftypol/ guy say all that shit. It needed to be said.
>>24756685
Because the dominant school of thought is left. To be left is to succeed. How could you be on the failure board of 4chan and be staunchly left wing?
If Hitler won WW2 in parallel universe, there would be leftie people that can't gel with the world on a /r9k/esque imageboard moaning about having no wife and how "Stalin did nothing wrong!" or whatever.
>>24756747
>classless, borderless, stateless
how is that even remotely possible?
Lets say we reach that end game. That we are now stateless. Well, now the state can no longer impose limitations on class, therefore monetary advantages are now possible. So now you have classes again. Which means now you need a state again to impose that equality. Why would anyone think this is a good idea?
>>24765274
"woman can be memelords, too"
Thid turned into a seriously socialistic circle jerk. Top fucking lel all the useless NEETS are commies, thanks for proving the truth to the world.
>>24756685
Stop focusing on sides and focus on the issues. Both sides can have pros and cons.
>>24757571
>saying you think someone who is another gender is inferior just 'cos is stupid.
OK. Explain why, without looping back to the Appeal to Ridicule.
>>24765715
>I'm not a conservative. I don't want to be a conservative. I wish the SJWs would stop fucking with us and let us organize politically.
It's almost like they're being used to divide and conquer.
>>24756685
You have to be at least 18 to post here OP
