>Studies show that meditating for 20-25 minutes a day for just eights weeks has been proven to boost empathy and reduce stress.
So, why don't you meditate, robots?
>>24746803
No time. I already waste all of it shitposting.
How does one meditate properly?
Meditated the other night, t.b.h I rush too much to get to work in the morning but am incorporating it into my nightly routine
>>24747575
Sit comfortably supporting yourself, allow your mind to wander but remember to focus on your breath
Start with a timer for ~15 minutes at a time, after several sessions you'll just be getting into your groove & can bump it up as it seems to pass faster & the effects become more pronounced
Because the reason I am a robot is because I have too much empathy and care way too much for people. I'm the stereotypical "good guy" and always put others before myself.
>>24747643
>>24747575
That's just one method of meditation, sitting meditation.
You have countless of other methods like walking meditation and soft martial arts like taichi and chi gong, as well as hard martial arts like karate.
Even going for a job or lifting weight or bikin around is a form of meditation - focusing on your breath and clearing your mind being the common aspect.
Also
>in b4 'that guy'
>>24747679
being the good guy is not necessarily empathy though. Empathy is just "oh I see where you're coming from", being the good guy is often a manifestation of wanting attention and approval. I know because I used to be that guy.
>>24747706
Once upon a time, there lived six blind men in a village. One day the villagers told them, "Hey, there is an elephant in the village today."
They had no idea what an elephant is. They decided, "Even though we would not be able to see it, let us go and feel it anyway." All of them went where the elephant was. Everyone of them touched the elephant.
"Hey, the elephant is a pillar," said the first man who touched his leg.
"Oh, no! it is like a rope," said the second man who touched the tail.
"Oh, no! it is like a thick branch of a tree," said the third man who touched the trunk of the elephant.
"It is like a big hand fan" said the fourth man who touched the ear of the elephant.
"It is like a huge wall," said the fifth man who touched the belly of the elephant.
"It is like a solid pipe," Said the sixth man who touched the tusk of the elephant.
They began to argue about the elephant and everyone of them insisted that he was right. It looked like they were getting agitated. A wise man was passing by and he saw this. He stopped and asked them, "What is the matter?" They said, "We cannot agree to what the elephant is like." Each one of them told what he thought the elephant was like. The wise man calmly explained to them, "All of you are right. The reason every one of you is telling it differently because each one of you touched the different part of the elephant. So, actually the elephant has all those features what you all said."
"Oh!" everyone said. There was no more fight. They felt happy that they were all right.
>>24747706
less about clearing your mind, more about quiting your mind
>>24747842
know any more of these, always enjoy a good buddist anecdote
>>24747842
That is retarded.
>>24747893
You can't quit your mind unless you go into a come or blow your brains out.
>>24747842
You would think that, for men who presumably lived their whole lives blinded, they would know to feel around for more than just a inch or two before making assumptions of what is. Especially when they must have heard that this "elephant" is a creature as large as a house.
I know it's just an allegory, but still, I hate it. I prefer the shadows in the cave.
>>24747939
>buddist
It's a Jain parable, not Buddhist. Although it was later adopted by Buddhist and Muslims and Europeans
>>24746803
I don't want empathy.
>>24747939
Tons of em, met an old buddhist lady & would just swap stories. This one is kinda tame, but I'll follow with a couple that are a little out there:
A monk saw a turtle in the garden of Daizui's monastery and asked the teacher, "All beings cover their bones with flesh and skin. Why does this being cover its flesh and skin with bones?" Master Daizui took off one of his sandals and covered the turtle with it.
Ever since I started singing super robot anime OPs in the shower really loud, I find that my confidence has skyrocketed and I generally feel much better.
>GAN GAN GAN GAN
>>24747975
Lol yeah & yet here we sit still shitposting on 4chan. Tell me about blind men eh?
>>24747975
ment to say quite
>>24748043
we /koans/ now?
>Nansen saw the monks of the eastern and western halls fighting over a cat. He seized the cat and told the monks: 'if any of you say a good word, you can save the cat.'
>No one answered. So Nansen boldly cut the cat in two pieces.
>That evening Joshu returned and Nansen told him about this. Joshu removed his sandals and, placing them on his head, walked out.
>Nansen said: 'If you had been there, you could have saved the cat.'
>>24746803
I do. Did so 35 minutes today, have longer to go. Meditation has changed my life. I feel sharper, make better decisions, act nicer, and just feel all around better. I used to be an alchy, when I relapsed it stocked me from diving back in. I did what I was told I should not, left the cult of na. My lapses have been less frequent and of lower severity, because I found out that real relief comes from meditation. I am trying to get my practice more regular and up to two hours a day. That sounds like a lot, but it's really not because I find meditation more restful hour per hour than sleep. It's really saved my life and been responsible for real progress I made. No more psychiatric Jew (yet my stability is at an all time high, though that's not saying much), no more cult telling me to feel powerless, no more struggling to do my best and lacking in improvement, and no more feeling like I need a woman to save me. Highly recommend it.
>>24746803
Because it's dangerous.
Just lift. It has been proven to cause gains and reduce stress.
>>24748061
BURNING THIS ANGER
BURNING THIS SOUL
I don't know how to meditate. I am anxious almost every minute of my life, even when I'm sleeping I have stress-induced dreams. There isn't even anything major going on in my life. I just want to die.
>>24748190
lifting made me depressed. swimming and doing bodyweight exercises made me feel happier, and i got in pretty good shape.
>>24748157
Good to hear, tripfriend
whenever i try to meditate, i end up sitting down, crossing my legs and closing my eyes and then about not even a minute or two into it I start thinking about how I'm just wasting my time doing absolutely nothing and that I should be doing something else so I stop
>>24748124
>Two monks were arguing about a flag. One said: 'The flag is moving.'
>The other said: 'The wind is moving.'
>The sixth patriach happened to be passing by. He told them: 'Not the wind, not the flag; mind is moving.'
>>24747939
Can't find this one online so I'll try to relay it best I can:
Once the student Xian-Po was practicing long meditation & had successfully reached a new plateau of bliss after 2 months of uninterrupted meditation. His hair & nails had ceased to grow while his brothers watched with some reserve.
After the 3rd month his brother Chuan decided Xian-Po had died & that his body should be cremated. He was carried to the site & the fire blazed & turned his body to ash.
The next week rumors began to float about that a ghost was haunting the monestary calling out, "where is my home?". Chuan grew nervous & rarely spent time alone when the shadows of night grew long.
One night on his way to sleep Chuan came across the ghost of Xian-Po. He immediately fell to his knees & began to apologize. The ghost asked of him, "where is my home? where has it gone?". Chuan apologized profusely & told him, "we thought you died and we cremated your body!" At that moment Xian-Po became enlightened
>>24748220
Try active meditation then. (walking, jogging, running, martial arts, etc.)
>>24748190
Lifting IS a form of meditation.
>>24746803
Meditation doesn't do shit you faggot tree hugger. Especially the new age garbage which is what you're referring to. There are numerous other ways to relax and get control of your life with western methods than your imaginary time wasteful methodology.
>>24748263
>A monk asked Tung-shan, "What is Buddha?"
>Tung-shan said, "Three pounds of hemp."
>>24748295
You sound pretty relaxed yourself there senpai :^)
http://www.health.harvard.edu/mind-and-mood/relaxation-techniques-breath-control-helps-quell-errant-stress-response
>>24748295
well enlighten us then
>>24748295
What is the relaxation response?
I'm already free from stress and empathy is bad to have. It's better to not give a fuck about anything.
>>24748268
>Lifting IS a form of meditation.
I'm just going to point the attention of one or two critical readers of this thread to this here manipulation. Its lone existence is a hint as to the nature of 'meditation'.
>>24748341
Lol yes, nothing gives me a good belly laugh like these
>>24748295
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1697747/#!po=38.5906
I'm going to drop this here before I peace out. That's a writing about various different pieces of research on meditation, strung together to present a comprehensive picture. Fully cited (over 30 citations), submitted and published in an extremely legitimate medical journal.
>>24748446
>single quotes
>nonsense
oh hi it's you again, decide to jump threads huh?
>>24748470
>that
>comprehensive
>>24748446
The use of passivity as a tool for those with an aptitude for it?
>>24748465
>A monk told Joshu: 'I have just entered the monastery. Please teach me.'
>Joshu asked: 'Have you eaten your rice porridge?'
>The monk replied: 'I have eaten.'
>Joshu said: 'Then you had better wash your bowl.'
>At that moment the monk was enlightened.
>>24748515
There's a nice study that was performed on students in chicago showing a reduction of 44% in violent offenses for those involved in the courses on meditation
>>24748497
Anon, I recommend that you control your knee and not let it jerk 'nonsense!' until I actually *say something in the thread*.
>>24748525
That's the general nature of 'meditation'. What I had in mind is that if 'meditators' had evidence for improvement of *everyday functioning*, as opposed to brain changes, artificial tests of a handful of cognitive measurements such as reaction time or short-term memory, or social outcomes which are exclusively variegated forms of caring less, then they wouldn't have to extend the definition of 'meditation' to include every kind of ordinary focus, such as when you're lifting, so to be able to say 'you might just as well start meditating properly, you're already doing this'. This manipulation betrays behind hard-pressed for arguments. Again, you'll recognize this tactic as being stereotypically feiminist -- or, perhaps, reminiscent of 'with us or against us'.
My mind is a kaleidoscopic maelstrom: impossible to sooth, suppress or examine. I can't exclude intrusive thoughts. I often have two songs playing in my head simultaneously, in addition to my own inner monologue.
Meditation is seems great but I just can't do it.
>>24748601
>betrays behind
*betrays being
>Ummon asked: 'The world is such a wide world, why do you answer a bell and don ceremonial robes?'
>>24746803
but i do , every day
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8oKWQiEWYs
jon kabat-zinn is best jew
>>24748544
>When Mamiya, who later became a well-known preacher, went to a teacher for personal guidance, he was asked to explain the sound of one hand.
>Mamiya concentrated upon what the sound of one hand might be. "You are not working hard enough," his teacher told him. "You are too attached to food, wealth, things, and that sound. It would be better if you died. That would solve the problem."
>The next time Mamiya appeared before his teacher he was again asked what he had to show regarding the sound of one hand. Mamiya at once fell over as if he were dead.
>"You are dead all right," observed the teacher, "But how about that sound?"
>"I haven't solved that yet," replied Mamiya, looking up.
>"Dead men do not speak," said the teacher. "Get out!"
>calls himself buddhist
>thinks he's enlightened
you're just feeding your ego with labels
here are some more tips
>if you still have thoughts you're not enlightened
>if still have beliefs and ideals you aren't either
>if you believe that free will exists or that the ego is 'you' (not that a 'you' exists outside of the awareness itself') you aren't enlightened either
>>24748544
what the fuck
(fororiginality_)
>>24748716
>>if you still have thoughts you're not enlightened
This is the truest definition of Buddhist enlightenment I have seen.
>>24748725
You must remember that Buddhism is the most populist faith of all. That parable's purpose was literally to imply that 'the most important understanding is just living a simple life and being in the moment as opposed to finding intellectual problems important and becoming attached to label'. It's all toxic trash. Normally, middle schoolers would grow out of it.
>>24748775
>becoming attached to label
*becoming attached to labels
>>24748716
>>24748775
BlindMenDescribingObject.txt
Since we're funposting koans, Ikkyu is one of my favorite Zen writers mostly because of his "fuck bitches, get enlightenment" attitude. He has a collection called Crow With No Mouth
>that stone Buddha deserves all the
birdshit it gets
>I wave my skinny arms like a tall
flower in the wind
A couple of stories about him (I'm paraphrasing by memory). He once showed up at a banquet for a prominent government officer and wanted to beg for food, no one recognized him and he was quickly shoo'd out. A while later he received a formal invitation to another one of these banquets and he dressed up in his traditional priest's robes. He got there and was well-greeted and was shown his seat as food was being brought to the tables. He stood up and started undressing himself down to his underwear. One of the servants ran up to him and pleaded for him to put his clothes back on and his reply was "these robes were invited to the banquet, not me" and grabbed some food and fucked off.
Another time he just pissed all over a newly-built stone Buddha statue that he was asked to bless.
>>24748815
Look at that. A Buddhist trying to sound relevant with his desperate implications that 'true understanding transcends words' and 'you can't name the nameless tao' and 'if you think you're enlightened, you aren't enlightened'. Sorry, but you're late. In a couple of hundreds of years, you'll all end up in the rubbish dump of humanity, rightfully discarded at last.
>>24748815
explain yourself
if you have thoughts you literally aren't enlightened, it's all about the shattering of illusions and the truth is what you see, feel etc not the shit in your head and once you realize that is all there is you become able to experience life without interruptions
the gates to hell are open at any time, you are already in hell yet hell is but an illusion, enlightenment is the key to realizing you are already in heaven
>>24748888
>>24748878 applies to you as well, Buddshit.
>>24748854
Lol now this is what it's all about
>>24748878
>>24748888
BrokenMirror.jpg
>>24748908
>implying 'I' am a buddhist
prove that what I'm saying is wrong or stop shitposting ya lil faggot
>>24748888
>it's all about the shattering of illusions and the truth is what you see, feel etc not the shit in your head and once you realize that is all there is
>having random useless thoughts at random intervals that one has thoughts from time to time
>being close to any sort of competence in any meaningful sense, much less enlightenment
Only in Buddhism.
>Gutei raised his finger whenever he was asked a question about Zen. A boy attendant began to imitate him in this way. When anyone asked the boy what his master had preached about, the boy would raise his finger.
>Gutei heard about the boy's mischief. He seized him and cut off his finger. The boy cried and ran away. Gutei called and stopped him. When the boy turned his head to Gutei, Gutei raised up his own finger. In that instant the boy was enlightened.
>When Gutei was about to pass from this world he gathered his monks around him. "I attained my finger-Zen," he said, "from my teacher Tenryu, and in my whole life I could not exhaust it." Then he passed away.
>>24748220
thats normal try some guided meditations
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nTzx5V6oFU
if you dont like this one threr are lots out there
>>24748937
A Buddhist clinging to his irrelevant definition games. 'Uh, I am not I! Unless you understand that you are not I and I is self and not-self is non-you and you-ness is the opposite of the I which doesn't exist, you, uh, aren't enlightened. Did I get this right?'
>>24748989
In fact, it is probably this desperate clinging to their dogmas which Buddhists display that is most entertaining to watch.
>>24748937
Don't try to argue with him this guy is clincally retarded and anything that is
-Buddhism
-Meditation
-Jazz
triggers him and starts spamming the board with walls of texts of circular reasoning and word salads.
>>24749013
>-Buddhism
>-Meditation
>-Jazz
>jazz
Okay, I laughed out loud. Good one.
>>24748961
Lol they just get better
>>24747706
Hello Antibudha
>>24748958
haha your IQ must be 95 or something
the point is that you're completely thoughtless experiencing all of reality without the illusions of thoughts making you suffer because of made up bullshit
>>24748989
oh look an ego trying to defend itself, how original
there is no me, just as there is no you, the 'thoughts' the brain creates are just an evolutionary instinct keeping a human back from experiencing life in it's full nature
those emotions you feel while reading these sentences, those 'thoughts', those noises you have in your head are not you, if you are anything at all it is the awareness watching and experiencing all of this happen
>>24749013
I've seen him in a couple of threads spouting his autism before but so called Buddhists aren't exactly smart when they're taking shattering truths as instead of being what it simply is, turning it into some kind of philosophy. Enlightenment isn't about thinking about life or theorizing about life it's about looking at everything around you and letting it hit you full force with no interruptions. That's the best I can put it in words really, but what it really is; is an experience that can only be summed up as 'enlightenment' itself.
>>24749034
The best part is that most of them actually have deeper meanings, but a lot of them are just complete nonsense unless their meanings are super-extra deep and meta.
>>24749031
It's true, there was a thread about "what music do robots listen to" or something and he went off about how Jazz is disgusting and lazy and intellectually dishonest and requires no talent, and then refused to say what it was that HE listens to because he thought people would dox him.
>>24749060
>Antibudha
Mildly interesting, how the Buddhist who invented this insult chose to present me not truthfully, as a objector to Buddhist claims (like some robots do, calling me 'anti-meditation' or 'anti-psychedelics' guy), but as the opposite of Siddhartha himself, so to imply the emotional, non-factual motives of my posting, and to imply that I would be particularly hurt by being contrasted with the central figure of the whole religion (hardly; there are some figures and movements that have been more harmful than him: Zen, Alan Watts, Tenzin Gyatso...).
Mildly. Not very. Buddhists seem innately skilled at such manipulation. They innately sense such opportunities to insult.
>>24749178
>he went off about how Jazz is disgusting and lazy and intellectually dishonest and requires no talent, and then refused to say what it was that HE listens to because he thought people would dox him
Doesn't this bring memories! Just as when Buddhists 'discovered' that I have schizophrenia and am on /r9k/ 18 hours a day. Remember?
>>24749229
It's like you live in an alternate universe where Jews are actually Buddhists, but a tear in the time-space continuum makes you post to our 4chan.
>>24748854
Kek, sounds like the buddhist version of Diogenes desu senpai
>>24749178
Oh, it's the anti Buddha right? I remember him. He always argues with people, dosent offer citations, then says that any citation you provide is nonsense without looking at it. He hates jazz too? Does he just not like nice things? I don't understand him.
>>24749273
Pretty much, except that while Diogenes was all but swept under the rug of history, he's actually pretty popular in Japan and had his own anime series at one point meant for kids.
Obviously they whitewashed a few things out like how he would constantly be shitfaced and fell in love with a hooker.
>>24748775
>It's all toxic trash
whats the trash, labels?
>>24749298
mm-hhmm, he said that Harvard was a Buddhist propaganda machine because they back the scientifically-proven fact that focused breathing helps one relax.
>>24749271
I respect Jews. They actually remove suffering. They have been doctors, inventors, physicists, novelists, mathematicians.
>>24749298
>says that any citation you provide is nonsense
Aww. This is such a bold-faced lie, Buddhist, that you surely remember which words I used to use whenever you committed it. 'Buddhists love to lie that I ...... the ....... . Not going to cite those words here, of course: if I did, everyone could just go to the archive and see that you're lying, and you wouldn't want that, would you?
>>24749143
I like them, they like children's stories for adults
>>24749351
http://www.health.harvard.edu/mind-and-mood/relaxation-techniques-breath-control-helps-quell-errant-stress-response
You also said that clearing one's mind and relaxing was cluttering it.
You need a new hobby.
>>24749338
>he said that Harvard was a Buddhist propaganda machine
And here, we see Buddhist without a care explore the boundaries of the term 'paraphrase'.
>Hogen, a Chinese Zen teacher, lived alone in a small temple in the country. One day four traveling monks appeared and asked if they might make a fire in his yard to warm themselves.
>While they were building the fire, Hogen heard them arguing about subjectivity and objectivity. He joined them and said: "There is a big stone. Do you consider it to be inside or outside your mind?"
>One of the monks replied: "From the Buddhist viewpoint everything is an objectification of mind, so I would say that the stone is inside my mind."
>"Your head must feel very heavy," observed Hogen, "if you are carrying around a stone like that in your mind."
>>24749359
>One day Chao-chou fell down in the snow, and called out, "Help me up! Help me up!" A monk came and lay down beside him. Chao-chou got up and went away.
>>24746803
>empathy
>good
I'm a moralfag too, but to say it's good or useful in the modern US is just fucking silly.
>>24749351
I'm not even a Buddhist. I practice meditations from various denominations, and am undecided. Go ahead and link it. Or you can go ahead and tell me how every single citation that stated clear benefits from meditation was done poorly. Go ahead and file a complaint to the scientific community.
>>24749419
(Let me interrupt the Buddhist frolic in this thread for a moment by pointing out the obvious manipulation whereby Buddhist 'teachers' 99% of the time engage in garbage like >>24748245, but at times will suggest reality of physical objects, only so to silence any doubts a potentially dissenting 'student' might have regarding meaningfulness of his 'masters'' claims: 'oh, okay, it's fine after all, they do know that object don't literally exist in the mind, this means they're down-to-earth, I can get back to listening then'. Not unlike, so to continue the feminist, surprisingly fitting, analogy, a feminist conceding 'some men are nice'.)
>>24749457
>The pupils of the Tendai school used to study meditation before Zen entered Japan. Four of them who were intimate friends promised one another to observe seven days of silence.
>On the first day all were silent. Their meditation had begun auspiciously, but when night came and the oil lamps were growing dim one of the pupils could not help exclaiming to a servant: "Fix those lamps."
>The second pupil was surprised to hear th first one talk. "We are not supposed to say a word," he remarked.
>"You two are stupid. Why did you talk?" asked the third.
>"I am the only one who has not talked," concluded the fourth pupil.
>>24746803
>Be hyper depressed, near suicidal
>burying an injured bird alive was easier than getting help for it (social contact is spooky)
>everyone tells me I need to meditate
>meditate meditate meditate
>the word now irritates me immensely
>get a bitter-sweet sense of sickly satisfaction that meditation-fags can't heal me
>>24749528
>A nun who was searching for enlightenment made a statue of Buddha and covered it with gold leaf. Wherever she went she carried this golden Buddha with her.
>Years passed and, still carrying her Buddha, the nun came to live in a small temple in a country where there were many Buddhas, each one with its own particular shrine.
>The nun wished to burn incense before her golden Buddha. Not liking the idea of the perfume straying to the others, she devised a funnel through which the smoke would ascend only to her statue. This blackened the nose of the golden Buddha, making it especially ugly.
>>24749528
Sounds like someone has found the Ox but hasn't tamed it yet! Then there's very little hope of making it back to the village
>meditating
>what a specific, well defined, scientific term
>>24749507
>tell me how every single citation that stated clear benefits from meditation was done poorly
Trying to obscure your lie that I 'call citations nonsense', Buddhist? So soon? True spirit of the Buddha, right here.
Well, disregarding your embarrassing (though thoroughl expected) misconception that there is such a thing as 'benefit' in science (there isn't)... The words I had in mind in >>24749351 were that I 'ignore [no] studies'. I ignore no studies. I just point out the academia's refusal to correlate 'meditation' to real-life outcomes which might demonstrate its harmfulness. See >>24748601 for arbitrariness of choice of relationships to study.
I have shit to do
>>24749507
It has already been reminded in the thread that meditation could be dangerous for depressed people.
Considering we're talking about Robots, so people who're not in the best mental shape and will practice it poorly and alone, I would feel concerned.
>>24749528
>Te-shan was sitting outside doing zazen. >Lung-t'an asked him why he didn't go back home. Te-shan answered, "Because it's dark."
>>24749624
Surprisingly, it is actually not as ambiguous as the rest of Buddhist terms. It refers pretty unambiguously to getting the brain to produce self-referential thoughts, 'I am thinking that I am thinking that I am thinking', which effect is only then disingenuously called in studies 'broadened awareness' or 'increased self-control' or, more hilariously and more vilely at the same time, 'reduction of rumination'. 'Meditation' itself is just a misnomer. As I say, 'mindfulness meditation' is funnier, because it is a double misnomer.
>>24747842
I wish someone posted that in the thread where some pseudo-intellectual was talking a lot without actually saying anything meaningful.
>blahblahblah talking about meditation without the concept of meaningless free will fallacy is irresponsible
>>24749651
>meditation could be dangerous for depressed people
so -could- anti-depressants and psychedelic drugs and being on this very website.
I think its part sham and part placebo effect.
It actually forces people to sit there and think, sort of the equivalent of staring at a wall, or waiting at a transport terminal and your cell phone is dead, no tv, and no reading material.
And the placebo effect is:
>bro, dude. I'm like reaching a totally higher plane right now. Totes. Feels good man. Thits yoga/meditation/etc does wonder brah.
Alot of people hate hearing their own thoughts and thinking things through, so the placebo actually makes them think positive/constructively for a change, especially as a substitute to you smoking and alchy faggots.
>>24749693
>Elder Ting asked Lin-chi,
>"Master, what is the great meaning of Buddha's teachings?"
>Lin-chi came down from his seat, slapped Ting and pushed him away.
>Ting was stunned and stood motionless.
>A monk nearby said, "Ting, why do you not bow?"
At that moment Ting attained great enlightenment.
>>24749715
>>bro, dude. I'm like reaching a totally higher plane right now. Totes. Feels good man. Thits yoga/meditation/etc does wonder brah.
This does happen. As I used to explain, 'meditation' affects your definition (not verbal of course; definitions aren't primarily verbal) of self-development, namely 'oh, I used to be *needlessly* stressed before I began to meditate, now I'm *just as relaxed as I should be*' -- without realizing that neither 'needlessly' or 'just as much as I should be' are not objective claims, and that their objective amount of concern, of drive, of ambition, might just as well far degenerated.
>>24749651
Everything has risk. The rehabs I went to taught meditation to over 100 people I personally knew throughout my stay. Some people didn't gravitate towards it or care for it, but I never heard of anyone saying that. I knew many people who recieved relief and clarity of thought from it though. Which isn't to say that it dosent ever have risk. Almost everything positive you can do has risk, and I feel it's one or the less risky processes that can help people. It's not perfect and not a magic pill of course, it works for me a great deal, but there of course many other valid treatment options.
>>24749748
>muh present
>>24749748
Lol these are my favorites
>>24749715
http://www.bangscience.org/2013/04/mindfulness-meditation-panacea-or-placebo/
>>24749569
so it helped , thats nice
>>24749693
Yeah, thinking is meditating.
So are mindfulness exercises, which are the opposite.
Meditation is just awareness, either of your thoughts or your surroundings.
Awareness of your thoughts can be called meditating, awareness of your experience from outside stimulus can be called meditating.
Mindfulness meditation is only a misnomer if you have a different definition of 'mindful' than most of the population. I guess 'awareness' might be a a better term?
Meditation is only a misnomer for the exact reason I stated, it's about as specific as the term 'human condition' or 'human experience'.
My point is, the OP clearly wants people to practice mindfulness, not, say, Falun Gong or Dzogchen.
>>24749778
>>24749748
(Of course, a truly vile thing about Buddhists is, as I used to explain... so long ago... as soon as you point out to them the toxic, will-degenerative trash of theirs, they will agree, and try to placate you with something along the lines of 'Well, yes, you clearly are pretty enlightened yourself, yes, you noticed correctly, those anecdotes are just pointers, they aren't objective truth, they just have to, (the Buddhist's favourite phrase to hypocritically use), "make you think".' Except this pitiful attempt at placation doesn't excuse them from the evil of exposing people to it: to utter conceptual incoherence, to utter reliance on implications, to thorough anti-intellectualism of stressing 'being in the moment', to abounding tautology, and so on. That they will at times concede that what they're saying is shit (only to win faux self-awareness and self-insight points before an audience that knows no better) doesn't mean that they either feel remorse or will stop. This, however, doesn't mean much for an outside person: it just requires adding 'hypocrisy' to the list of falsehood, tautology, implication, incoherence, ambiguity, irrelevance, etc. that Buddhists display.
>>24749877
>Yeah, thinking is meditating.
First of all, Buddhist scum, don't say I agree to you. Your definition of thinking means meaningless self-absorption.
who /ryokan/ here? i don't meditate as often as i should but i do love reading some buddhist poetry
>the thief left it behind;
>the moon
>at my window
There was this man, and he was being chased by a ferocious tiger. No, make that a lion. A Detroit Lion. Two of 'em. And the man was Cowboy Hall of Famer Roger Staubach.
The Lions were blitzing and Roger rolled out of the pocket, running for his life. He headed for the sidelines, but these two Lions were closing in on him. Then, out of the corner of his eye, he saw a cup of Gatorade. Well, Roger took a sip of that Gatorade, but I tell you something, son, it was the sweetest sip of Gatorade Roger ever had.
>>24749809
>http://www.bangscience.org/2013/04/mindfulness-meditation-panacea-or-placebo/
Neat. Should probably guess there's already science and criticism being done on this already.
And fuck, I thought I was on /pol/. How did I get here?
>>24749902
Learn how to read the love letters sent by the wind and rain, the snow and moon.
>>24746803
>eights weeks
Ain't nobody got time for that shit. I got anime to watch.
>>24750002
>And fuck, I thought I was on /pol/. How did I get here?
Many paths lead from the foot of the mountain, but at the peak we all gaze at the single bright moon.
>>24749877
Now, this is, again... so ordinary... so ordinary... attempt to whitewash a practice by abstracting it out of its physical consequences. The infamous 'about'. 'Meditation is about awareness.' 'Awareness is about mindfulness.' Sorry, but there are inherent consequences of 'meditation' on the brain that are central to its definition, which you're now glossing over. 'Meditation' is the process of creating *SELF-REFERENTIAL* thoughts, thoughts about thinking, intended to replace in one's brain awareness of one's environment, including of one's own dire situation, for instance emotional -- thus leading to the scientifically measurable increase in self-reported happiness, which Buddhists are always so glad to lie I ignore.
>>24749960
>Buddhists insulting poets by calling rhyme-less, metre-less shit 'poetry'
Their moral bankruptcy shines, or rather stenches, through everything.
>>24750118
>Their moral bankruptcy shines, or rather stenches, through everything.
Please drop the aphoristic speech. You're no good at it. You aren't Nietzsche.
>>24750228
It wasn't perfect, but it was decided in favour of dually through improperness of the positive image of 'shine through' and alliteration of 'shine'-'stench'. (Now I think of it, the alteration of the sense, vision to smell, is nice too.)
The Anti-Buddha will save us all.
>>24750118
What do you have to say about 'thoughts about thinking'?
>>24749697
Hey look, he's back.
>>24750118
>tfw you use words without learning what they mean first.
>>24749960
>>24749960
The robbed that smiles steals something from the thief;
He robs himself that spends a bootless grief
>>24750289I can't even save myself.
Best I can do at this point is to make in every thread I post in explanations of one or two particular Buddhist manipulations, so to never give Buddhists an archived thread to point to to justify their claims that I 'exclusively speak nonsense' or 'exclusively attack others'.
>who am I kidding, implying Buddhists would *ever* point to an archived thread in which I posted
>>24750314
A lot.
Vague question, vague answer.
>>24746803
>So, why don't you meditate, robots?
>Still still focusing on my breathing wasting time
>OR masturbate
>OR play video games
>OR watch a show
>OR learn to do something useful and build actual skills that can benefit my life
>Are you getting the point...............
>>24750289
Oh, and, I just noticed you did open the opened eyes, as I asked you to! That's sweet. :3
everyone post Jazz to make the anti-Buddhist fag even more triggered.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_40V2lcxM7k
>>24750527
>you did open
*you did add
(In case it wasn't you -- when that image was first posted, I objected that contrary to Siddhartha, I want to be represented by someone with open, not closed, eyes.)
>>24750495
>learn to do something useful and build actual skills that can benefit my life
>robots
where do you think you are, normie? The self-improvement and career-building board?
>>24750388
Haven't really been keeping up so I can't say who you are, but this sounds sad
Have you tried meditating over these thoughts?
>>24750554
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_40V2lcxM7k
A music that emotionless and simplistic can't even make me angry, it just numbs my mind.Which is incidentally the goal of proponents of 'meditation', too.
>>24749902
>"Of course, a truly vile thing about Buddhists is, as I used to explain... so long ago... as soon as you point out to them the toxic, will-degenerative trash of theirs, they will agree"
>actually upset that a religious person is willing to engage them instead of pointless internet arguing
I know not all atheists are like this, but these people are the loudest and most annoying.
>>24750527
Haha, so you remembered. I'm the anon that meditates that actually agrees with you on a lot of what you say.
Remember to be mindful of your awareness and aware of your mindfulness guys!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTJhHn-TuDY
>>24750631
He's not an atheist he's just legally retarded and sees Buddhists in every thread.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqNTltOGh5c
>>24750690
>He's not an atheist
I said not long ago that I explicitly and directly label myself as an atheist to spite Buddhists who come up with contrived qualifications such as 'I'm atheist, but I believe...' or 'I'm theist, but not in the ordinary sense...'. Fuck their language games.
>>24750593
>where do you think you are, normie?
>Not self improvement, shit I can make money with
> Wanting more money =/= normie (else you'd all be homeless and not on this website kek)
>>24750690
>legally retarded
*Literally. I am literally retarded, as in, IQ < 100. Not the same thing. Sage.
>>24750434
My question was vague because there's nothing to be understood in such meaningless assertions as 'thoughts about thinking', so no real question can be made, something you seem to be aware of. And you stood your ground.
But still you've said you have a lot to say. Do you think such thing is possible, thinking about thinking?
>>24750775
>not being a NEET frogposter with tendies and POOPOO PEEPEE and delicious hand-crafted Subway sandwich
>>24750860
Anybody who would choose to be a neet is an idiot, no neet is going to save up money and move to a 3rd world country with legalized prostitution and fuck Asian qts every week, neets are like a sub level of robots, robots who have lost all of their anger and thoughts of revenge become neets, just sad pathetic piles of mess that wallow in a basements/small rooms, neets lost their hatred, their will, that's where they failed.
>>24750846
>meaningless assertions as 'thoughts about thinking'
Not at all. The distinction is binary vs continual. Regular thinking is digressive; one notices something, for instance, a bird, and the mind wanders, 'where do they nest', 'do they have predators', 'which urban avian species have been most affected by humans', 'this reminds me of the Mao's war on sparrows', and so on. This is the kind of thought that 'meditation' shreds to ribbons. Instead, 'meditation' causes intermittent binary self-reminders, 'you are thinking at the moment' (e.g., 'you have just noticed a bird'). Every time this happens, one is being distracted. As I explained, this enables one to let go, to drop the subject at hand, to make use of the opportunity to stop the train of thought. This works well enough (and it is it that's touted in thousands of studies I 'ignore') with rumination and worry and anxiety and addiction and anger and all that. But the problem is, it works indiscriminately on every other kind of thinking as well. Because contrary to what 'meditators' say, there is no way at all to undo this phenomenon with 'even more awareness'. The harm has already been done. No awareness of the damage will fix the original disruption of the train of thought.
>>24748043
>>24748124
I don't really get it. And what's the deal with putting sandals on top of things?
>>24751053to be honest I have no idea, I figured out the one about the cut-off finger (blind faith and imitation), washing the bowl (not forsaking everyday life in the pursuit of enlightenment), three pounds of hemp (Buddha just being a living thing on earth), but the shoe on head/turtle still stumps me to this day
>>24751029
literally none of what you wrote has anything to do with meditation
>>24751269
what meditation is not is easier to discuss
>>24751053
The first one is just crappy anti-intellectual 'some things are just irrational, just don't think about it'. And possibly even 'don't let your curiosity get the better of you'; this is a typical case of cowardly 'be as vague as possible, so to burden others with the responsibility of interpreting my responses to others' unambiguous questions', except in the mad world of ours Buddhist 'teachers' are even being praised for THAT (namely, for implying that ambiguity is an acceptable way of teaching).
Also, I just realized that I'm explaining verbally the 'wisdoms' that tens of thousands of Buddhist 'teachers' have been hammering into their 'students' heads is impossible to put into words and can only be understood experientially/personally. Heartless scum, to sow distrust in language like that. Buddhists are evil. And I wish I hadn't had to say that dozens of times already.
And the sandals on head thing implies, first, obviously, the typical Buddhist fare of 'live in the present, don't think, don't ask questions, focus on your immediate environment (i.e. what's on your head), don't get lost in what's not immediately important', intended to make you stop questioning and objecting, and second, 'understand that limitations to behaviour are in your mind and you're free to do anything you want, as I'm doing right now, putting those on you'. But in reality, it is just an ego trip, a justification of Buddhists' bully mentality: 'I can humiliate you and get you to thank me for it by making you believe that it is a lesson'. The Buddhist might then even imply that even immorality is fine, in the sense that even if you decipher the 'teacher''s bullying intent, you still can do fuck all about it.
Jesus, Buddhism is repulsive.
You're too rational to see sense in it, anon. Kudos.I am not. ;_;
>>24751368
I see too clearly how Buddhism is a sect.
I don't want to live.
>>24751368
that's an interesting interpretation of that parable, if not completely wrong
>>24751394
I want to be evaporated.
![meditation[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/G1cRfgj.jpg "meditation[1].jpg")
>>24746803
Because to tell the truth I'm always in a state of Meditation.
>>24751433
If I asked you 'what is the right one then', you'd just evade the question. 100% of Buddhist 'teaching' is literally just that: brainwashing the victims into an endless circle of evasions, cryptic responses, lolsorandom reactions, 'mu'-s, pointing at things, until they are finally broken and begin to respond the same way to questions, losing any attachment to literalness, face value, directness, and verbality. And the cycle continues. Affecting millions of people who come into contact with it along the way.
>Buddhism is rational!
>>24751029
>Because contrary to what 'mediators' say, there is no way at all to undo this phenomenon with 'even more awareness'. The harm has already been done. No awareness of the damage will fix the original disruption of the train of thought.
Exactly, they end up... thinking, even more than before, about a definition (thought), but never about thought itself because it's singularly impossible. The symptom of this impossible transgression (that's what I meant to say by meaningless assertion) is the very destructive process you talked about. It's self-harm born out of hope.
Do you agree with me?
>>24751495
I have understood how the sect works. But I will change nothing and I can educate no one.
>>24751513
Whereas I discussed phenomena of the brain, you've just rambled that 'thinking about thoughts itself is impossible'. That's nonsense. Thoughts can be thought about, in many ways: as neurological phenomena, or in the sense that one's attention becomes less or more temporarily consumed by the sensation of 'oops, I just thought about something', which I explained impairs 'meditators', making them happier on the way. But what you said, one can neither agree or disagree with it.
>>24751053
>>24751243
>>24751495Sandals on top of head when asked for a good word = "actions speak louder than words"Sandal over turtle = action meant to symbolize that one shouldn't waste their time with metaphysical worries
>>24751495
Another face of Buddhist reprehensibility is -- ah, exactly: >>24751607. Namely, that Buddhists sell themselves as saviours of mankind from the 'metaphysical worries', except they are literally the single group of people on the planet who produces and perpetuates most of them. An anon above accused me of a conspiracy theory (maybe not in this thread) where Buddhists have taken the place of Jews in my mind. Buddhists do a presumably stereotypically Jewish* thing: selling a cure for an illness that they themselves've created. Buddhists inundate a person (and a society) with unscientific garbage about the self and consciousness and ultimate truth, only to finish it with an implication that 'all they've said is irrational, and the rational thing is to dismiss it and just go sip on some tea, wink wink'. This way, they manage to do the worst of both worlds: first leave a residue of meaningless beliefs in the reader's head, and then the implication that those beliefs aren't as important, so to decrease the drive to disambiguate them -- knowing that the seeds have been sown.
*in my opinion, the Jews don't particularly exhibit this at all, of course
>>24751746
>>24751607
Of course, I am doing the wrong thing even TRYING to disambiguate and verbalize Buddhist toxin. As soon as you see a robed clown, you should just spit. Trying to decipher their implications and allusions and non-verbal games sends the extremely harmful social message that it is a valid way to communicate.
>>24751794
>the extremely harmful social message that it is a valid way to communicate
In fact, the extremely harmful social message *that it is communication in the first place* -- it isn't. Communication is exclusively verbal.
>>24751794
Buddhists don't talk to each other in Koans, guy.
You ever heard of a thing called a "riddle"?
>>24751855
What I am saying is that there is literally nothing one can gain from the company of a Buddhist. Not ambition. Not knowledge. Not attachment to literalness. Not attachment to verbalness. Not attachment to taking things at face value. Not hatred of hypocrisy, for every single koan-lover will profess his undying attachment to taking things at face value and wholly literally. (I feel physically sick just realizing this.) Not even the most elemental moral standards such as compassion (cf. the recently mentioned a couple of times Buddhist cowardly mentality of blaming the victim by implying that people are guilty of their own suffering) or truth -- because that part IRR where a Buddhist lied that I ramble whenever jazz is mentioned is just (it turns out; I honestly at first believed it was a joke) is just a ridiculous lie based on a single comment of mine in a music thread.
There is nothing. Nothing.
>>24751944
>that part IRR
*ITT
>>24751850
>Communication is exclusively verbal.
Actually, it's almost entirely non-verbal. About 90% is body language. You can verify that claim yourself, BTW. Sorry about your autism.
>>24751794
Riddles and metaphors provide a deeper understanding than simply being told something verbally, as you are required to think through a concept yourself, rather than have it spoon fed.
>>24751944
So.... what are you accomplishing by hanging out in Buddhist threads all day everyday?
>>24751944
>taking things at face value and wholly literally
the EXACT opposite of how to read and understand koans, thanks for playing, collect your consolation prize on the way out senpai
>>24752026
This obviously doesn't hold. Even if using riddles and metaphors and implications didn't implicitly teach other people to rather use them than to take responsibility for their words, and to strive to lay ideas out clearly (like I've been doing in this thread), in direct violation of the robustness principle -- which it DOES teach -- then using them would remain a waste of time. It just holds the society back; the time is wasted on thinking about something that could have been explained right away. If you want someone to learn to reason, you can give them a real problem, that would BOTH teach to think and get something done. For instance, to model something in a programming language, or read how to build an engine, or understand a grammar point.
>>24746803
tinnitus and anxiety
>>24752155
>>24752026
In other words, you are confusing expectation to *get* something with expectation to get something *in an understandable format*. It is the right thing to do to demand unambiguous explanations. The 'teacher' has the right to deny, citing lack of time, or anything else. But he has no right to take time to imply that ambiguity is fine.
>>24752155
>It just holds the society back; the time is wasted on thinking about something that could have been explained right away.
I guess you're not a fan of literature then huh?
>to model something in a programming language, or read how to build an engine
things that you definitely don't spend your time with, since you're here all the time talking about the same things.
>>24752155
>>24752206
this nigga is too dumb to get allegories.
I bet you play video games with guides as well.
>>24752209
>guess you're not a fan of literature then huh?
As a matter of fact, no, I'm not.
>>24752028
>>24752209
Ad hominems are as irrelevant as they are likely for one to come to accept through exposure to Buddhists using them casually.
Is that Polish autist still lurking around and bashing these threads? The one that also dislikes marijuana?
>>24752245
it's not an ad hominem, I am genuinely just what it is that you're doing here if you're mad that Buddhists waste your time, but you're the one who freely chooses to waste his time with Buddhists.
>>24752240
>this nigga is too dumb to get allegories.
True, but irrelevant. It is absolutely not true that 'some truths can be only expressed allegorically', or even 'are best expressed allegorically'. It is just a waste of time. Arguing that decoding allegories/allusions/... is good because it builds your brain is like saying that crime is good because it teaches people to counteract it. It is inherently unneeded. It is another example of >>24751746, of Buddhists purporting to solve a problem they've been contributing to.
>>24752282
*genuinely interested in knowing
>>24752269
Polish eh? Yup now he's mad that sometimes people use allegories, and somehow ties feminists to Buddhism.
Jazz triggers him as well.
>>24751584
You think ABOUT thoughts, not thought (whatever that is) in itself.
>Whereas I discussed phenomena of the brain, you've just rambled...
C'mon man I was starting to like you...
> you've just rambled that 'thinking about thoughts itself is impossible'. That's nonsense
I agree, it's nonsense, but I've no desire to extricate myself from this corner
> Thoughts can be thought about, in many ways:
And then you gave me definitions used by thought to perpetuate itself
To be clear I'm not denying any possible mechanical/biological understanding based on science, but to think you can discuss anything on any level about thought and create a schism in your intellect to look at thought and analyze it - I'm sorry but that's a lie, thought is very well there when you look at thought. As I've said before the phenomena you talked about is the symptom of the misguided self-harm these people delude themselves in. Meditation is violence.
I know I'm just repeating myself and you will dismiss this again so let me tell you that the criticism you've made against buddhism makes you much more closer to actually understand those silly zen guru stories than any buddhist.
>>24752304
That's a false analogy, the ability to read into things and to think for one's self is a crucial part of critical thinking.
Anyways keep replying to yourself with "in other words" when you claim to be as concise as possible. I'm out to enjoy life and be mindful of my awareness :)
>>24752282
>it's not an ad hominem, I am genuinely just what it is that you're doing here if you're mad that Buddhists waste your time
The personal benefit is inter alia is that I get to clarify my thoughts.
>>24752311
>ties
I understand that you must lie, Buddhist. I really do. I really have come to expect no better but to look at what lies you come up with. I just marvel (still... still... why?) at the fact that you consciously chose to disregard my explicit explanation that it is just an analogy, that which you're going to present as 'he believes that Buddhism and feminism are connected'.
>>24752376
>I really have come to expect no better but to look at what lies you come up with.
And as always... as always... the true danger is within, it is of coming to empathically find fine, to empathically stop shuddering at the thought that someone might do this, to empathically infer 'well, clearly it is not that bad...'.
I must die. But not yet.
>>24752324
Hm. I'm sorry. Maybe I overlooked something in your post(s?). I am stupid. My point is simply that it is not possible to at the same time develop 'self-monitoring' (I just thought of an analog: reality checks of lucid dreaming, whereby you are just momentarily reminded of something for the sake of exiting your present/prior state, in LD: dreaming, in 'meditation': a thought process), which makes you acutely remember what you're immediately doing ATM, and have one's mind wander efficiently as I exemplified above with birds. Those are exclusive.
>>24752304
Sorry that you can't into abstraction, or subjectivity. Life seems incredibly black and white for you. What rings true for you isn't inherently so for the next person, which is where your statements fall apart utterly.
>>24752332
>That's a false analogy, the ability to read into things and to think for one's self is a crucial part of critical thinking.
The analogy is true. It is crucial because and only because there are people and groups who routinely rely on it.
>keep replying to yourself with "in other words" when you claim to be as concise as possible
Something can be long and concise at the same time.
>>24752155
You seem concerned with the literal, and regard anything other as a waste, an indirect route to a final point. But what you fail to grasp is that it is often the journey which is most valuable, not the destination. There's a whole spectrum of experience when it comes to knowledge, and you're skipping anything that doesn't have practical value. That's a genuine pity. I don't say this as an insult, but do you have aspergers? You seem very much like a friend of mine who does, as he is as lost as you are in these types of discussions.
>>24746803
>reduce stress
That could come in handy-
>boost empathy
Fucking useless. I'll have a go at the gun range, thank you.
>>24752579
...What?
Abstraction, analogy, and subjectiveness are three completely separate things. One can talk about exceptionally abstract subjects without once using figurative language. In fact, math and science are both abstract while being explicit. Analogy BY DEFINITION burdens its recipient with identification and definition of the correspondent of the analogy. If I say that, for instance, a computer program is like a motion or a prism, I'm leaving you in the dark.
>What rings true for you isn't inherently so for the next person
This is just a typical Buddhist ad hominem masked as an anti-intellectual implication of limitations of intellect masked as a well-intentoned reminder of limitations of intellect.
>>24752681
>This is just a typical Buddhist ad hominem masked as an anti-intellectual implication of limitations of intellect masked as a well-intentoned reminder of limitations of intellect.
Okay, since you want to argue in terms of right and wrong, there is really no actual discussion for you to be here. And I'm not a buddhist, but an atheist and nihilist, so your petty insults fall flat.
>>24746803
Buddhism is the lowest form of spirituality.
>>24752624
>it is often the journey which is most valuable, not the destination
...What?
If it is the journey that is 'more valuable', then it is the journey that IS the destination, in the sense of being the goal within the given arbitrary model of pursuit.
'Consider pursuit x of goal A. It is not goal A that is the goal of pursuit x, it is pursuit x that is the goal of pursuit x.'
I'm not into tautologies.
>>24752240
'le relative' is a shallow allegory akin to trash like the Scarlet Letter's shallow symbolism.
>>24752741
>>24752792
Are you the same person?
>>24752812
Yes?
Are you a numale posting from Starbucks?
Also.
>>24752624
>There's a whole spectrum of experience when it comes to knowledge, and you're skipping anything that doesn't have practical value.
'Practical value'. That's like saying 'There are lots of kinds of love outside of the emotional love.' or 'There are lots of kinds of truth outside of the kind of truth that can be verified.' 'Practical value' is redundant.
>I don't say this as an insult, but do you have aspergers?
I don't, but I've had much pleasure of being colleagues with three people with it. They have all impressed and inspired me.
>>24752837
>Are you a numale posting from Starbucks?
Never been to one, I'm not very manly, and I much prefer the prefix 'neo-'.
>>24751053
It means their minds were on the bottom. They're being literal. "Stop overthinking."
>>24752894
>They're being literal. "Stop overthinking."
>they are not being literal
>they are being literal
For the love of God, Buddhist, READ FOR ONCE WHAT YOU ARE SAYING.
>>24746803
>So, why don't you meditate, robots?
Because of all that lost time when I could be shitposting
>>24751746
>Namely, that Buddhists sell themselves as saviours of mankind from the 'metaphysical worries', except they are literally the single group of people on the planet who produces and perpetuates most of them.
Isn't that Christianity?
>>24752907
>overthinking it
I just put my sandals on my head.
>>24752915
Nope, the opposite is true.
>>24752940
So you're going to save me from Buddhism then, by... metaphysical argument??
My sandals are on my head.
will it lift depression and help with self-esteem issues?
>>24752972
There was once a young monk that meditated constantly. In a year he achieved enlightenment. He became famous and people everywhere would come to gawk at him while he meditated, hoping to learn how he did it.
Eventually, his teacher and master sat by him. He asked, "How do you feel now that you've reached enlightenment?"
The young student replied, "As miserable as ever."
>>24752907
In fact, there are whole levels of filth... figurativeness, implication figurativeness is fine, implication telling other people what to do is fine, implication that 'overthinking' and 'underthinking' are objective, implication that 'thinking' is a meaningful term... Jesus. Buddhism is a layer upon layer of rot.
>>24752915
No. Compared to Buddhism, Christianity is explicit and responsible, hardly fleeing from criticism into cryptic koanic evasion. Whereas Buddhism profess itself as an expert on psychology, epistemology, ontology, and I could pretty much throw every other -logy into the mix. Just look up 'Buddhist philosophy'.
>>24753022
>No. Compared to Buddhism, Christianity is explicit and responsible, hardly fleeing from criticism into cryptic koanic evasion.
It's just symbolism! It's a metaphor! The bible isn't literal!
You know... like these sandals on my head.
>>24753043
Hate analogy as I may, I hate schizophrenic ramblings about 'the ultimate nature of reality being emptiness' and 'the ultimate truth of reality being non-duality' even more in which Buddhism abounds.
>>24753084
>I hate it, therefore it's wrong!
You know... I might be the one with sandals on my head, but you're the one stomping on your mind.
>>24753102
>>I hate it, therefore it's wrong!
I have always so far pointed out that people are using it irrelevantly; let me now bring it up when it is called for.
Correlation is not causation.
>>24753124
Well, dude, I'm not even a Buddhist. Half the stuff I said was just to piss you off.
Considering you're the one that's thinking I'm defending Buddhists in any ways just to justify your bias is pretty telling.
I mean, it's obvious I'm trolling you... to everyone but you because you're so clouded by emotion.
Feel free to put your shoe on your head at any time.
>>24753146
The key is not to let my empathy -- which I hadn't even noticed when I entered the thread (or even yet verified) this thread claims 'meditation' increases -- fashion the implication in your post, that of 'at the end of the day, what truly matters is not right or wrong in this or that petty sense, but just to observe your emotions and make sure one uses one's time properly' into an independent truth. It is not a truth; it is just, as always, a tautology, 'you should always be aware of everything there is to be aware of'. Worthless.
>>24752548
We are in agreement then.
I find this thread funny because your assertion and attacks are bordering really close to what those apparently silly stories are really about. For example I'm assuming you made this post here>>24751368
I said really close because you still think they are teaching something different from what you've said but the criticisms you've made are the actual answers to them. The fools are the ones telling you didn't 'get it' + explaining you the same exact thing but still thinking you're disagreeing with them...
>>24751746
What is explained here is exactly what the teachers wanted to avoid but ended up doing anyway, they failed to realize the very act of trying to educate people away from illusion only gave more strength to their illusions.
>>24753226
>No, see, I'm smarter than you!
How burdened can someone even be? Top koan.
>>24753236
>your assertion and attacks are bordering really close to what those apparently silly stories are really about
Yes, this is ironic now you point it out. The point is, I'm not objecting to koans' intended interpretations, tautological as they are ('live in the present' as though one could live elsewhere, 'don't get caught in unnecessary thinking' -- well gee thanks) as much as their (1) implicational form -- if I can explain them verbally, why can't they (explained above ITT), and (2) their anti-intellectual connotations: 'live in the present' that experience shows connotes, less or more explicitly, mundane things such as eating or working ('don't think, just work and be happy'). Some anons have been recently referring to Buddhism as a slave religion imposed by the lamaic caste; they have a point.
(Continued maybe.)
Guys, most of these "stories" aren't fucking stories. They're Koans. You know what a Koan is? They're anecdotes used as meditation objects (i.e. something to focus on during meditation) in Zen buddhism. Zen buddhist monks spend years and years meditating trying to figure out what the answer is. And that "answer" is not a logical, rational answer that you get by overthinking. It's something that comes to you when you meditate for years and learn to let go of things. Debating on this is pretty much pointless.
Also, those Koans are like 0.01% of buddhism. Don't judge buddhism by this. It's like saying you don't like christianity because you don't like the color of the church in your hometown.
>>24753362
>[...] that "answer" is not a logical, rational answer that you get by overthinking. It's something that comes to you when you meditate for years and learn to let go of things.
Bullshit. I have never 'meditated', and it took me just two or three years of rather sparse reading to understand that they are just disingenuous devices whereby a nonsensically phrased question, repeated enough times with enough authority, leads the 'student' to conclude, or rather, espouse the sentiment, that it is language/intellect that is 'flawed' and 'not everything' and 'not as meaningful as the reality of the present moment' rather than the koan-poser being intentionally retarded. Koans are literal brainwashing.
>>24753432
>It took me two or three years of thinking on it...
So what's meditation then?
>>24753432
>to conclude, or rather, espouse the sentiment, that it is language/intellect that is 'flawed' and 'not everything' and 'not as meaningful as the reality of the present moment'
Which, once espoused, the 'teacher' is then going to approve of, by calling the 'student' enlightened.
A literal sect.
>>24753449
Don't give me the >>24750118 shit again. What I did was nowhere near 'meditation'. 'Meditation' is, basically, >>24751029. Of course, it DOES result in diminished curiosity, creativity, critical skills, and so on, which facilitates >>24753432: eventual adoption of implied/authoritatively stated sentiments that 'ultimate truth is living in the present'.
>>24752780
>I'm not into tautologies.
Abundantly clear, as anything outside of rigorous logic seems to boggle your mind.
>>24753722
>anything outside of rigorous logic seems to boggle your mind
>you were born on a planet on which this is an insult
>>24753739
It is when the implication is that subjectivity is beyond your conception. Rigorous logic is best for automatons, not human beings.
>>24753768
Subjectivity meaning what? If you want me just to prostrate before the platitude that 'everyone has his own subjective perception of reality', then you need to make some more effort, sorry.
>>24753792
(Because it is appeal to ignorance -- yes, a logical fallacy.)
>>24753792
>everyone has his own subjective perception of reality
Why is that assertion invalid, in your opinion?
>>24753818
It is nothing in itself. It avoids making a stance because it just says people have stances. Problem is, it is used in place of criticism: 'I don't like what you have to say, so I'll just break the discussion completely by reminding you, "you can always be proven wrong one day anyway regardless, boo".'. It is a variant of the just world fallacy, maybe, whereby I am threatened to be proven wrong in the future by some unspecified entity.
>>24753888
I agree in that it's not a valid end to a discussion. Anyone using that is probably not able to debate without fallacies, however the assertion is valid in a wider, more general context. Logic can't be applied to the entirety of reality and human experience, as you seem to think.
>>24753792
>>24753888
(Buddhists will often use the 'it's about...' fallacy to say things like 'Buddhism/meditation is all about you understanding >>24753818 (namely, that you shouldn't be attached to your own arbitrary conception of reality, etc. etc. etc.)'. They will often combine it with the 'no true...' fallacy, leading to a variant of >>24753432 whereby I don't 'truly' understand that trivial sentiment unless I become deeply attached to it, as exhibited e.g. by reluctance to take a stance, to argue, or by tending to compromise in discussion, 'yes, well, you might be right, we can never know for certain' (empathetic/populist equalization of correctness, 'we're both right and wrong equally').)
>>24753952
Your rigidity is pain. I suggest 250mcg of LSD and a room full of mirrors.
>>24753360
>Some anons have been recently referring to Buddhism as a slave religion imposed by the lamaic caste; they have a point.
Any structure of any kind is a system of control so yes. They catch you by making you believe you must redeem yourself OR ELSE (a treat or ultimatum is made) and must refer to the leaders to get appraised/punished because it's believed they 'got it' and you don't. Politics and Religion are not two different things. The sheep get dogs that bark, we get holy men that teach.
The second you make someone believe he must do something to get enlightened or reach the heavens, he himself is already lost. The truth is there's no such thing as enlightenment... well actually I'm misleading you again because raising the opposite statement is again missing the point, but the nature of a double bind forces one to do so, it's not easy to escape these silly mental walls. Actually it's utterly impossible because any state of mind is a form of conditioning, even if that conditioning commands you to be 'oped minded'.
You cannot escape it without dying - it is said that to reach enlightenment you must die to your past for example. What they don't tell you is that any concept of death or enlightenment is bound to your memory system so automatically "in the past" - If you reached enlightenment you would never proclaim yourself as such! Much less try to teach others about it, because you would never truly know how the hell happened!
Every self-appointed saint is a liar let it be no doubt about it.
The funny thing is that buddha never wanted any following, he was a true anarchist.
>>24754000
Why? Just because I managed to e.g., not without effort, determine the bizarre internal structure of 'the journey is the destination' in >>24752780, a cliche that has never sat well with me as a matter of fact? Would you rather that I swallowed them whole, just letting their connotations, 'wooo always look at the broader context of things!', 'wooo try to listen to what other people actually have to say one time instead of criticizing them!' wash over me? I think that if anything, then it is through close analysis, as close as I can muster, that I truly respect other people's words.
>>24754067
It is 09:26 AM here. I'm not going to reply to your post, but I thank you for it. Night, you and everyone.
>>24754198
No problem, I leave you this interesting article for later, I think you will like it
https://meaningness.wordpress.com/2015/10/05/buddhist-ethics-is-advertising/
>>24747842
No one touched the dick of the elephant? What if it was a girlephant, no one got a cop of that mammoth-like puss?
>>24754089
The central problem with your way of thinking is you equate your opinion and conclusions with objectivity.
