>tfw raised by Christian single mother being fed the story about how the bad guys go to hell and you'll go to heaven
>tfw treated like crap by fellow christians
>tfw did best to be a good person for the hell of it and never engaged in sex or anything
>tfw everyone is engaging in sex and your left out
>Ended up fucking an escort out of curiosity
>You're going to hell
>Somehow everyone is still saying Praise God
>Feel confused sad and lonely
Arcanine do you believe in God?
>>24509274
Not so much. Self-agency and morality are my compass. Those philosophers do have some pretty convincing arguments for God, though.
Salvation is through faith in Jesus Christ, not by being a good person. Read the bible.
Hell no. I don't see how anyone can look at the world around them and see a benevolent god.
>>24509442
God is benevolent in a different kind of way. I think God is a pretty scary dude, sending people to hell and whatnot. I'm pretty afraid of him, but I think i live ablessedlife.
Fear of God is the main reason I believe in him.
What kind of benevolent god sends the vast majority of humans, whom he is the creator of, to eternal suffering in hell?
I listen to Christian music because it's soothing. But I'm not sure I believe in anything. Maybe I want to believe but can't.
>>24509601
You may be pretty well off, but I don't think you would say the same about children born into poverty and wars they've nothing to do with.
>>24509601
A benevolent God wouldn't use fear to make people believe in him.
And this benevolent in a different kind of way is simply bullshit. It's the same as "he works in mysterious ways" which is just a blanket statement that means nothing.
>>24509627
Because they wouldn't be able to live harmoniously with others in eternal life.
You think life we live is just a game? It's preparation for eternal life.
>>24509678
>>children born into poverty and wars they've nothing to do with.
God didn't force the idiot parents to fuck each other and birth people into their shithole of a country, and neither did God make these people start wars with each other.
>>24509740
Depends whether or not you believe the Bible.
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." - Isaiah 45:7
>>24509678
Developed countries are the countries with the most atheists/agnostics.
Those in poverty have to count their blessings, God is all they have. I'm happy i'm not one of them, but they have even more reason to believe in God than I do.
>>24509704
>wouldn't use fear to make people believe in him
That's most religions there buddy. Even the old, dead ones.
>>24509627
I view life as a test. If you pass, heaven for you. If not, sucks bro.
God is a lie, thought up by humans for something to "believe in".
Just have good morals and don't be an idiot and your life should be good enough.
>>24509274
following Christ is a good way to live your life imo.
However following Christians puts a degree of separation between you and the divine, you'd be closer to God following a travelling gay parade than following the kinds of people who call themselves Christians today... hell even Mormons call themselves Christians.
>>24509406
>not by being a good person
Precisely. This is the line of reasoning that eventually resulted in me losing my religiosity. Well, to be fair, it's one of the main reasons.
>>24509783
Whether or not the impoverished believe in God is irrelevant. It still doesn't make sense that a God that allows for war and poverty should be called benevolent.
>>24509785
I know I be myself breh all cool
>>24509731
So God creates billions of people with like 1% or less of people being able to live in heaven. He sentences an overwhelming amount of people to the worse suffering possible for ALL OF ETERNITY.
How is God not an asshole for setting up the parameters like this?
>>24509785
thats like saying math was thought up by humans and therefore its a lie.
take your fedora off, look inside it for the dial, turn it down from 'militant' to 'mildly abrasive'.
>>24509926
Actually according to parents question god and you will be punished too
>>24509783
Ok so how do you pass the test? It used to be that all homosexuals would automatically end up in hell. Now the pope is coming out and saying that they're actually fine. So who's right? What version of the test are you trying to pass? Why is your interpretation of the test the correct one?
>>24509933
>le hat man maymay
Not that guy, but is that all you can come up with? If you're going to call someone out, at least have a decent argument.
>>24509964
So what makes your parents' interpretation of God the correct one? Why is everyone else wrong?
>>24509988
I thought the 'dial inside the fedora' was quite a unique take on the old hat meme.
thanks for the feedback though.
>>24509933
But the thing is, everyone knows math is invented; and no-one uses math as a source for morality.
>believing in a god who would punish you with eternal suffering for rubbing your wee wee parts on somebody else without signing a contract first
>Believing in a weak-ass Christian god
Well there's your problem right there.
>>24509841
>Embracing sodomy is Christ-like
Nice meme good goy.
>>24509274
no its just religion is outdated and doesn't serve a purpose beyond giving poor people food.
I still think God needs to go down for criminal negligence.
>>24509274
I was also raised by a single ultra-Christian mother. Wasn't her fault though, she was raised by two even more Christian parents. Life got a lot better for me when the Christianity brainwashing wore off.
>>24510007
I don't know.. people close in their perspectives?I think this world is closer to hell than the true God's work
>>24510077
>hating God because you are a degenerate
>>24509972
You raise a good point there. I don't have an answer to that. That's gonna vary from individual to individual. I personally believe that God wants his people to share love and goodwill to everyone, including the homos.
But that's just what I believe, and like i said, it'll vary from person to person.
>>24509926
Ever played the Sims? Ever put people in a small room with a fireplace and a rug and removed the doors?
It's the same thing. Humans don't matter.
>>24510046
>no-one uses math as a source for morality
of course we do
the pros and cons of any military strategy are weighed mathematically (should we drone strike a 10 innocents to kill one person that could kill hundreds? ect.)
and we didnt really invent math either, we build the science of number around mathematical rules we saw in nature so it could be argued that we invented the language of math but the expression of it in the world is its true form.
The same could be argued of a higher dimensional intelligence eg. we invented the language to describe God but the expression of God in the world is his true form.
>>24510007
Not that guy, but you bring up a great point. Growing up in a christian household, my upbringing was very strict. In fact, my father was a pastor. As a child, I never questioned anything, but as an adult, my logic took over and I became agnostic.
I stopped being religious a long time ago, but my father doesn't care anymore. A few years ago, he earned a master's degree in theology and his entire worldview changed. He puts it as such; God is like an elephant. We humans are tiny gnats living on different parts of the elephant. The different groups of gnats each believe they understand the true nature of god when in reality we are too insignificant to see the big picture. The point is that, as a supernatural power, it is not possible for us wordly beings to grasp the nature of god or gods if they actually exist. Arguing about it is pointless. No one can prove anything either way.
>>24510192
So if different interpretations are valid, then there's not ever a reason to say
>premarital sex will definitely put you in hell
>masturbation will put you in hell
>doing drugs will put you in hell
>not praying will put you in hell
As long as you're a good person and spread love and kindness, even if you don't believe in God, you should still end up in heaven (if there is one)
If this is true, why restrict your life by living strictly by the bible and end up with self-doubt and anxiety like OP
>>24510320
...so I'm confused, do believe in a god or not?
>>24510238
>>24510238
Sometimes I get overlyparanoid thinking about the possibility of life being a simulation created by some sick fuck in a future computer.
>>24510359
That guy said he became agnostic. The rest of the posts basically explains that he thinks, ultimately, it doesn't matter if you believe in god or not because no one has the definitely correct answer
>>24510304
No. It isn't math that's used to solve the moral dilemma, only calculate it. Math doesn't explicitly tell you what to in a situation like this. That comes down to other factors. I am with you on the whole language of math thing, though.
>>24510343
You are at least supposed to try to live a better life. Jesus to slut at well: "sin no more". nbd. Salvation by faith, etc.
how did you get the escort? ar eyou in yurope?
>>24510439
...but you believe in a god enough to argue his existence, or your ability to comprehend a god, so....
>>24510192
See, this is another one of the reasons I stopped being religious. People just interpret the bible however the hell they want in order to fit prevailing social paradigms. Well in that case, why do I need god and to bible to tell me how to live. It's no better than simply obeying the law and treating people with respect. Is the bible an ironclad document to be followed to the letter or not? You can't have it both ways.
>>24510443
That's what I said. Did you reply before reading the whole post?
>As long as you're a good person and spread love and kindness, even if you don't believe in God, you should still end up in heaven (if there is one)
>>24509849
That's just the protestant view, though. Catholics believe you get into heaven by being a good person
I believe in Jesus but I have no hope for this world anymore
I am not even strong enough to drop everything and become a monk or something
I wish the world ended already
>>24510472
But you could acknowledge God's existence, and try to the best of your abilities to follow his will as best as your deem appropriate.
>>24510469
>69
top kek
Anyway, I'm the guy you originally responded to. You asked if I believe in god or not. I ask, which one? There are tons of religions out there. If you're going to champion one, you better have some solid evidence as to why yours is real and everyone else is wrong. I told you my dad has a master's in theology. I've heard pretty much every argument you can come up with.
>>24510472
God is what you make of him.
>>24510343
You also have to accept God. You can't be atheist, be a good person, and go to heaven. But if you're a good person, there's really no reason not to believe in God.
If I die, and there is no God, I'll never know. It's all the same in the end. But if an atheist dies, and there is a God... Better safe than sorry.
>>24510568
ohhh your dad. Scarey. I grew up in the shit also, anon.
But to my point: You are a theist. Agnosticism is moot.
>>24510469
You're mixing up posts dude. I'm not>>24510320.
I was just trying to explain his view in response to this question >>24510359. I didn't give any opinion on God, I just tried to clarify the original post.
But if you must know, I believe that a higher power is possible in this reality. You can call it God if you want but I know that all religion is bullshit. If a higher power existed, there's no way humans would understand it
>>24509274
I'm a Christian who hates Christians.
Christianity is a religion for fuck-ups, not all of these uptight snob hypocrites, who do all the same shit that they're quick to shame you about, and worse. Church has become impossibly corrupt, and so far away from what it was meant to be.
On Sundays, I invite over some friends, some are atheist, some are edgy wiccan faggots (of course, I'd never say that to them), some Christian, and we just talk, and I just happen to try and steer the conversation towards the Scripture and towards the Gospels. I serve snacks and everyone brings something and it's all fellowship, and I invite new people all the time, but the thing is, this low-key preaching will never get mega-church status, because I'm not asking for any money, it'll never get bigger than what my apartment can hold.
>negative 2015 bc
>not doing the lords work>>24509933
>>24509988
>>24510044
>>24510077
dubdubs
heaven here I come.
>>24510593
>You can't be atheist, be a good person and go to heaven
Lol wtf? You know atheists are kinder people in general than religious people right?
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/atheists-generous-religious-helping-study-article-1.1072386
I don't exactly see where you make the argument that atheists can't be good people.
If I'm a good person, there are a lot of reasons to not believe in God. I don't want to go to church. I don't want to pray to a concept invented by our ancestors. Since I'm going to heaven anyways because I'm a good person, why would I waste time and inconvenience myself with stuff like church and God
>>24509849
Why does that idea bother you, anon?
Even though we are all saved by our faith through Jesus Christ, we are ultimately accountable for our actions before God, and we must bear the consequences for what we do.
OP. The scriptures themselves say that false prophets will destroy themselves and many others by teaching falsehood.
Hell is a false doctrine that was introduced my mere human beings. God won't allow anyone who believes in such a thing to approach him.
Go read up on the false doctrine of hell. Here's a starting page - http://www.godsplanforall.com/jesusdidnotteachhell
>>24509666
What the fuck trips
I am running into this number way too much
>>24510815
>we are ultimately accountable for our actions before God
If god exists, I don't give a shit about what he thinks. I don't need some imaginary man in the sky to tell me how to be a good person and help others.
>>24510862
Hello Antichrist.
>>24509406
So what if you were born in an area where you couldn't learn about Jesus Christ? What if you were born to parents who were Jewish, Hindu, Buddhism or any other religion.
What if you were born blind and couldn't read?
Why would God make faith in Jesus Christ a prerequisite to salvation and not give all his creation a chance to have faith? Why did people like Native Americans not deserve the chance to even consider having faith in Christ?
>>24509274
I know those feels, but no I don't. After a while a noticed a lot of shit involved, like bigotry and anti intellectualism.
Since then, no one has ever given a good reason to believe, especially not a reason to believe in their god.
>>24510650
>You are a bad Christian if you rebuke reprobates!
Fact: More people in the world would be saved if the third world didn't look at first world "Christians" and see only whores and kekolds.
False Christians everywhere, many are going to hell.
The present age is the age of the Laodiceans, you can look it up.
And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
>believing in a guy who created the universe but gets mad when penises touch buttholes
>believing in a guy who impregnated a chick with his mortal form
>believing in a guy that tortured another guy and killed his family just to show a former angel he's cool
>believing in a guy that will send you to hell for pre-marital sex but does nothing to stop sex trafficking and child slavery
>believing in a guy that flooded the earth because some people worshipped rocks, yet did/does nothing to people like Nergal Darski, Marilyn Manson, and Anton LaVey that outright say he isn't real and tells him to fuck off
>being this manipulated
>>24511168
I am creating a religion right now where if you quote the bible on /r9k/, you suffer hell that is 10 times as bad as the Christian depiction of hell. Even if you lived as a good Christian and ended up in Christian heaven, because you violated this new religion's holy edict, you will be transferred from Christian heaven into this new hell for all eternity.
This truth was spoken to me by the one true divine being and you can regard this post as holy text so it must be true. The only way to repent for sin in this religion is by saying "I am a beta loser Christianfag" and then renounce your religion.
So how does it feel knowing that even if I go to the Christian hell, you will be suffering 10x more than me in this new hell?
>>24511458
Caim and Abel were cool until competition garbage was pushed up so obviously shit happened
Le "problem" of evil face.
I swear to god. Why is everyone so philosophically illiterate?
>>24511650
What are you referring to, anon?
This isn't really the 'problem of evil'. The OP is concerned with the idea of Hell.
The 'problem of evil' is concerned with suffering in this world and God allowing it.
>>24511709
I'm referring to these types of posts that I see in every single fucking religious thread.
>>24509442
>>24509627
>>24511826
So why are you saying they're philosophically illiterate?
A huge amount of philosophy has been written on this issue and nobody has really come up with anything satisfactory, it's still an ongoing debate. Why are these people to be looked down upon for being concerned with something that's concerned philosophers for thousands of years?
I believe in no god but God and Mohammad is his messenger.
>>24511860
>nothing satisfactory
There have been 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 theodocies that make a stronger argument than anything anyone would ever say in this thread.
>>24511826
I took intro to metaphysics two years back and forgot most of it. Problem of evil has to do with free will right? That God allows evil because he created humans to be able to choose.
Is the issue of natural disasters ever reconciled in the problem of evil or no?
>>24511895
piss be upon him
>>24511896
Just fucking name a few of the mainstream ones then. Not every one is a fucking philosophy major
>>24509274
>Arcanine do you believe in God?
LMFAO, is that a joke? Fucking hell, how do people just go around believing that god exists in the 21st century? It's so hilarious to me.
>>24509841
>following Christ is a good way to live your life imo.
I agree. I'm glad I killed my child with rocks when he talked back to me, that was a lesson he needed to learn. It reminds me of the time god sent a she-bear to kill 42 young hooligans who made fun of Elisha's bald head. Oh, our god is a just god!
>>24510007
Reminds me of when my mom said "JUST HAVE FAITH! IT'S TRUE OKAY!"
Ok so let's say I randomly decide to "JUST HAVE FAITH" and it doesn't matter if there's no evidence for anything. Now what. How do I even choose which religion I am going to believe in? If I decide facts and evidence and arguments don't matter and I should just randomly believe something for no reason by "JUST HAVING FAITH" then what's stopping me from being a fucking Hindu?
Obviously my mom didn't want that. What she's really saying is "JUST HAVE FAITH OKAY, JUST BELIEVE IT WITH NO REASON, BUT IF YOU BETTER BELIEVE THE RIGHT THING OR YOU'RE IN BIG TROUBLE MISTER"
religious people are so immature
>>24512028
lol good times based writer
>>24512081
Honestly it's not that they're immature. They're literally brainwashed and indoctrinated starting from birth to believe in this stuff. And not just believe it but make it part of their identity. When you've lived years of your life like this, it's hard to just give it up especially when it's part of who you are. I'm glad I was not born to super religious parents but I can sympathize to people who are.
Look at OP's post. Do you see how much confusion, sadness and anxiety questioning his faith causes him? It would be very hard for him to logically think about and critically analyze religion because for him, it's more than just an intellectual exercise. For him, it involves his emotions, upbringing, identity, behavior and etc.
>>24510849
thanks for this, I had forgotton
>>24512028
fukken hooligans
>>24509274
most human depictions or interpretations of god suck
>if you don't worship or devote your life to me I'll be angry
Just about as bad as any camwhore or narcissistic normie asshole r9k likes to shitpost on here. Faith isn't something that comes easily, I'm not entirely opposed to the idea of being religious but a god I can agree with has yet to make itself known to me and I'm not the one obligated to go find it.
That being said, religion isn't necessarily bad for the most part.
>>24509849
Well, ask yourself. What is good? What is bad? Is it written on stone?
>>24512028
>But anon those are just allegories and not meant to be taken literally, just like all the other passages of the Bible that doesn't fit my personal views
>>24509731
>>24509926
When the bible mentions God making us in his own image, it's referring to our consciousness. Of course god doesn't fucking look like us. We're just a species made up of star dust and cells. What matters the consciousness that we have almost as God and I'm sure God is ashamed of making us into his own consciousness.
The ability to free will
>>24510095
Christians, Jews, and Muslims believe in the same God, friend.
>>24512579
>free will
Are you saying that we humans don't make decisions based on dopamine? Are you saying there aren't physical laws that dictate how matter and energy interact with each other and somehow our consciousness can magically influence these interactions?
Did homosexuals exercise free will to choose gay butt sex over salvation? Was that behavior not ingrained in their genetics?
Why did God make it so some children are born with extra chromosomes? How will they be able to exercise free will with such impaired mental capacity?
>>24512712
>inb4 God works in mysterious ways
>>24509406
to have faith is to change your heart and mind you can't just make a claim and say you are changed, to really have faith is to change your actions and beliefs
ITT: Losers on r9k come to discuss religion with almost serious consideration
>>24512712
All you're explaining is physical.
>Homosexuality
>Extra chromosomes
>Physical laws
>Dopamine
All literally physical. I'm surprised you didn't even mention our consciousness. Funny how science has a hard time explaining consciousness yet they have the audacity to say that literally everything is mapped out for us when that's false.
>>24512712
Also our chemicals in our brains "influence" our behavior but it doesn't necessarily affect us if we don't let it affect us. Why do you think there are so many people with so called mental illness?
>How will they be able to exercise free will with such impaired mental capacity?
Free will doesn't come from the physical brain. It comes from our consciousness.
