What was wrong with Communism? Everything I read about Mao and the ideology sounds like it's the most equal state of economy. Was everything about it just American propaganda?
hard to pull off in large countries.
Mao ended up living like a king while peasants were starving due to his retardation, hes just another dumb youth exposed to revolutionary ideas without proper education in science and economy
>>24463887
Communism was so great that people build boats from trash to escape it
>>24463887
Prisoners delima on a massive scale
>>24463982
No doubt Mao didn't completely follow his own agenda.
>>24463986
Communism was used by megalomaniacs to be dictators. That's not what I mean.
>>24464034
you are basically asking what is wrong with Communism , yet you know it was used by dictators , what the fuck ?
>>24464107
A dictator isn't needed in communism. I'm asking what is wrong about using it as a legitimate society for income equality.
>>24464146
>implement this on Communism
>>24464247
If you think that's how it works then you must be delusional
so i know nothing about political ideology or philosophy
could someone here give me the gist of communism? i dont really want to read the entire manifesto
>>24464669
Government owns everything relating to the economy.
>>24464822
well that sounds fine as long as the government isnt fucked
You think equality is good op? Do you think society can progress that way?
>>24464669
The manifesto is a quick read but since Id like to recruit a comrade I'll go for it
Communism in essence is a stateless, classless, moneyless society where the working class is able to reap the fruit of their labor.
Now Marx in the manifesto specifically proposed starting revolution, then applying a transitional state meant to suppress reactionary ideology and eventually become so automated that its influence ceases to exist.
There are many different opinions on getting to full communism, some more authoritarian than others, some sourced in anarchist ideas.
If you dont like the idea of a transitional state Od recommend reading kropotkin
>>24464669
Doesn't matter if you sweep the floors, or you are a nuclear science researcher.
You get paid the same money as everyone else.
it causes problems with economic calculation.
>>24464846
There's the rub. Communism works very well in theory because theory exists in a magical world where things go the way they're supposed to. In reality every government on earth suffers from corruption and mismanagement to some degree. This becomes a very serious problem when the government is responsible for employing everyone and managing everything.
>>24464949
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_calculation_problem
basically, dumb commiest "imagine" that you can "just" plan the economy. "just" set outputs and calculate inputs.
>>24463887
>Everything I read about Mao and the ideology sounds like it's the most equal state of economy
Including the parts where his crazy whims caused tens of millions to starve to death? Communism isn't equal, there is always a group who controls everything and cannot be challenged. That's the reality of how humans organize themselves, and it is why Mao got to be the worst mass murderer in history. Capitalism at least attempts to provide opportunities for the controlling group to be unseated.
>>24464897
What is progress?
>>24463887
>What was wrong with Communism?
Here's the most tl;dr explanation:
There's a law in the universe called Zipf's law, we don't exactly understand how it works, but it basically says that no matter what you do, no matter what system you try to implement, 20% of the people will always end up with 80% of the resources needed to run a society.
It's kind of like Moore's Law. We don't know why it works, but it does so with extreme accuracy.
In a free society, that's not a problem because you can always fight your way through and get some of those resources, but in a communist state, the lower 80% are forever suppressed.
Without a dictator, the system would collapse entirely due to a Beta Uprising and communism wouldn't work. This means that you always need a dictator, and if your country is entirely ran by just one person, it will turn to shit very quickly.
>>24465248
This is such a half ass explanation
>Zipf's law
Literally 20% owns 80% in the case of society because of private property and the pooling of resources by the beorgeosie. If these resources are equally distributed these numbers wouldn't pan out.
>Dictator maymay
A dictator isnt needed for socialism much less communism. Communism has always made a big deal of direct democracy, made much easier by modern technology. This can easily implemented and all because it hasnt does not mean it is impossible.
>>24465412
>If these resources are equally distributed these numbers wouldn't pan out.
You're retarded. Resources doesn't necessarily mean money. It can be anything: money, bitches, food, influence.
Stop posting.
>>24465412
>A dictator isnt needed for socialism much less communism
What bullshit. The entire concept is that there needs to be a ruling class to organize and implement and HOPEFULLY they will eventually dissipate, leaving only a working class.
>>24463887
>What was wrong with Communism? Everything I read about Mao and the ideology sounds like it's the most equal state of economy. Was everything about it just American propaganda?
If your ideal society is a completely equal society, then communism is the ideology for you.
The problem is that there is a natural hierarchy in humans, since some people are genetically more intelligent and/or strong than others.
Communism isn't necessary. What we need is to make solar panels in space that will collect energy that we can beam to earth and have total renewable energy. Once all electricity becomes renewable we will be able to advance at rapid speeds and start colonizing other planets and making work automated. When menial labor becomes automated an economy built around the working class would have little meaning.
the same thing wrong with capitalism, when you put a small amount of charismatic people in charge of all the big decisions everything goes to shit
>>24465614
>Goldman
Interesting coincidence that an anti-traditionalist thinker is JEWISH
>>24465653
yep there's an international jewish conspiracy of capitalism, bolshevism and anarchism all at once just all working together even though they violently confront each other all the time in history and in the present the whole thing is just all planned out by the jews they're an organised cabal and they just want to get rid of tradition for some reason and its because of the jews that germany lost 2 wars that it declared on the entire world
>>24465586
Actually, communism would be necessary for such a massive, unprofitable action to ever be taken. Solar panels require energy to create, and more energy to send to space. Presumably "beaming" the energy back to Earth would also be very expensive.
Unfortunately, even under communism the profit motive still rules, thus your fantasy will never come to pass. As soon as fossil fuels are too expensive, we will immediately revert pack to a pastoral existence.
>>24465738
jews support whatever benefits them financially and undermines anybody who could oppose them
ever notice how jews end up on top in both capitalism and communism?
>>24465468
Money isnt even what I was talking about. I meant more like land, food and water but y'know just keep assuming shit.
>>24465530
Socialism does involve a state to reform but that doesnt necessarily mean one dictator. As far as "hoping to get to communism" this is something I do agree on and one of my gripes about the state in general.
>>24465847
lad how does anarchism financially benefit jews
>>24465853
You would have to make sure that everyone gets the same amount of women, political rights, food, land, money, reproductive rights and so on.
Do you have any idea how ridiculous that is, how much against nature it is and how infinitely unlikely it is to work?
>>24465933
Rome wasnt built in a day, certain issues will take time to fix,just like all civilizations have had to do.
I believe it is not only possible, but our only hope to save this species from dying out or fucking itself in the semi near future.
>>24466020
Now you're just resorting to the usual desperate last ditch attempt at an argument of all leftists whenever they get blown the fuck out:
>hurr unless you do what I say, everyone will die and humanity will go extinct
Just fuck off m8.
>>24466120
Blown the fuck out? You havent said anything particularly stumping and honestly you could answer your own questions with just a bit of reading.
Furthermore I made no ditch effort, if society continues overproduction and pilfering of natural resources the planet will get fucked up. Infinite growth and usage on a planet with limited resources is impossible. This isnt rhetoric or opinion just basic logic that capitalism shills dont understand apparently
>>24466234
>if society continues overproduction and pilfering of natural resources the planet will get fucked up
[citation needed]
a capitalist who understands automation and wants to maintain the current system is suicidal.
>>24466259
>deforestation
>mass fossil fuel use
>mass fossil fuel drilling
The list goes on.
Not sure if you're retarded or joking here man
>>24466449
>deforestation
Trees grow back, faggot.
>mass fossil fuel use
CO2 gets converted into plants.
>mass fossil fuel drilling
If by "mass", you mean "in a few tiny localized areas on the planet", then yes.
>>24466577
So you are retarded
Trees dont grow fast enough to how much are used you fucking imbecile.
Too much CO2 is currently fucking our planet.
Drilling for oil has greatly damaged a shit ton of places and continues to.
7/10 trolling you're convincing but became obvious as you started to pretend to be retarded
>>24466709
>Too much CO2 is currently fucking our planet.
CO2 levels in the atmosphere have always been at least 10 times higher throughout the Earth's history. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
>>24463887
>Was everything about it just American propaganda?
Short answer: yes.
Don't discuss politics on 4chan unless you're mentally disabled, and especially not communism. Amerifats are STILL regurgitating McCarthyist propaganda in fucking 2015, and this thread proves it. There's a huge difference between "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" and "le janitors and doctors earn the same xddd".
>>24463887
"The most cruel form is unequality is when you try to force unequal thing to be equal."
>>24466870
Janitors and doctors do earn the same in communism you fucking retard...
>>24466889
That's fucking retarded as shit, who said that, Reagan?
>>24466951
Some greek philospoher, but I can't remember his name and how exacly he said that.
>>24466986
so essentially you're taking a quote from some dude who died 2000 years ago and applying it to modern politics and economics?
>>24467084
Yeah, biology and evolution are such outdated concepts.
>>24467116
what are you even talking about senpai
>>24466951
>>24467084
Looks like middle school history classes are getting to the end of their curriculums and babby's first political opinions are forming.
This isn't even worth arguing about, read about how Mao actually performed.
![quote-a-revolution-is-not-a-dinner-party-or-writing-an-essay-or-painting-a-picture-or-doing-mao-zedong-37-98-92[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/ik7Lphd.jpg "quote-a-revolution-is-not-a-dinner-party-or-writing-an-essay-or-painting-a-picture-or-doing-mao-zedong-37-98-92[1].jpg")
SAILING SEAS DEPENDS ON THE HELMSMAN,
LIFE AND GROWTH DEPENDS ON THE SUN.
RAIN AND DEW BOTH NOURISH THE CROPS,
MAKING REVOLUTION DEPENDS ON MAO ZEDONG THOUGHT!
FISH CAN'T LEAVE THE WATER,
NOR MELONS LEAVE THE VINES!
THE REVOLUTIONARY MASSES CAN'T DO WITHOUT THE COMMUNIST PARTY.
MAO ZEDONG THOUGHT IS THE SUN THAT FOREVER SHINES!
Get fucked, commie! If your border guard's primary function is to keep people in instead of out then you know that something is seriously messed up.
>tfw Dr. Sun died at the most crucial period of modern Chinese history and everything went to shit forever
>>24463887
Human beings are omnivores.
As such, we posses instinctual artifacts left over from that.
To remove them via gene therapy and cultural conditioning would make us unproductive as a society.
That is the most basic, most inherent flaw with any "provide for anyone other than yourself" ideologies.
