I had a discussion recently with a good friend of mine who was unwilling to accept the fact that Islam is a theocratic ideology, and that many deaths are perpetrated by, and in the name of, Islam. This person tried to refute my claims by stating:
>ISIS has about as much in common with Islam as Christianity does with Scientology.
They relied on the distancing rhetoric to defend their ideals on Islam. Probably to defend their Muslim friend. Ultimately, they decided to stop being my friend because I was anti-Islamic.
So what say you, Arcanines?
Are any of these groups a part of Islam or are they a fantasy sect that has no religion?
the person you're talking to is blatantly retarded. The quran tells them to jihad, to kill infidels, and that allah likes terrorist better than pussy muslims. ISIS are in fact being very good muslims and doing what their holy book says. pussy muslims are the ones doing it wrong.
>>24379782
>>24379855
>debating your IRL friends about religion
Now you know why people avoid you.
It's because you're legitimately annoying.
>>24379782
Al Nusra is Salafi, Hezbollah is Jafari.
Those two aren't bad at all desu.
Boko Haram is a Hausa nationalist organization and Al- Qauda does not exist but like Isis is Khawarij and Qutubi.
>>24379782
That's what they say, but really they want to see HAPPENINGS.
>>24379955
Would you consider all of them to be armies of Islam (the religion) or some benign ideology like secularism?
>>24379855
The constitution tells us to spread democracy (codeword for "jihad"), to kill communists/theocratists, and that Thomas Jefferson likes manifest destiny better than peaceful people.
The early invaders in the Spanish American war and native american wars are in fact being very american.
>>24380019
>secularism
>benign
No ideology is benign. The word you're looking for is "most logical...most progressive".
Benign ideologies never survive the marketplace. They squashed by aggressive ideology all the time.
>>24380019
Qutubism is more based on Niezthche than Islam. Basically they're using islam because it has a lot of oppressed people and it scares butthurt Americans
ISIS is the purest form of islam.
The quran tells to throw fags from 3 stories high buildings? They do that.
Fuck Islam. Humanity needs to go 40k Imperium of Man on Islam's ass.
>>24380092
>They squashed by aggressive ideology all the time.
Secularism is squashed all the time, in case you hadn't noticed.
>>24380031
But the constitution has nothing about spreading democracy
do you think catholic/protestant nazis were doing their thing because of christianity?
unhappy people do stupid shit and try to find a reason to justify it
>>24380031
Damn straight. Suck my big red white and blue cock, foreignshits.
>>24380101
>Qutbism (also called Kotebism, Qutbiyya, or Qutbiyyah) is an Islamist ideology developed by the late Sayyid Qutb, a Muslim, and figurehead of the Muslim Brotherhood
>is an Islamist ideology
>based on (misspelled Nietzsche) rather than Islam
okay.
>>24380031
Don't remember the constitution saying that shit but I fully support spreading democracy, manifest destiny and killing communists.
If pentecostals and baptists are under the nomer of Christianity together with Catholicism and Orthodoxy, I don't see why Jihadi Salafism shouldn't fall under the nomer of Islam.
They may disapprove on this form of Islam, but to say that it's not Islam is like saying that pitbulls are not dogs because you disapprove of them.
It's politically motivated no true Scotsman shit.
>>24380101
How is it Nietzschean? Citations please, sounds interesting.
>>24380031
None of that is actually in the constitution but I still support it.
I've never been able to read the Koran so I can't say what it advocates, but if you watch a movie called 'The Message' (1976), a film that Muslims generally accept as an accurate account, you'll see that Mohammed was basically a warlord and that military conquest was a central part of his life and early Islam directly after his death.
I think people have this strange attitude to religion in the West because people here see Christianity as benign, which I think at least is more justified in the sense that the Jews depicted in the canonical gospels was ulra-'pacificist' in his actions. This ultra-'pacifism' (I put it in quotes because it wasn't exactly a political ideology that motivated him, and so you can't really call it pacifism in that sense) never stopped larger numbers of people acting violently or killing in his name.
I think the main difference between Islamic violence and Christian violence is that Islamic violence is probably actually in some accordance with the teachings of the Koran (again, I'm assuming based on what I saw in the movie, I haven't read it so I don't know for sure), while Christian violence is DESPITE what is written in the Bible.
I should note that personally I believe that Jesus is Lord, but I also believe that the canonical gospels are forgeries.
>>24379782
It's retarded to say ISIS isn't Islamic, but I wouldn't say it's the 'purest' form of Islam either
>>24380283
>It's politically motivated no true Scotsman shit.
That's what I believe, to be honest. It's pretty clear that Islam contains many sub-sects like Christianity, but unlike Christianity most of it is violent.
There are no violent christian sects that I know of in contemporary society. Especially ones who behead people, sell women as slaves, or allow polygamy. Maybe Mormonism on the polygamy part, but no other religion is as vehemently adamant about being violent. None except Islam.
I know Sadhu Indians do sacrifices with real humans from time to time, and they're still classified as Hindu. How come Islam is exempt?
You should have told him that "ISIS" literally means "Islamic State", they are guided by the Quran, the holy Islamic book.
ISIS are Sunni Islamists who believe in Salafism. Saying they're not Muslims, is like saying Seventh-day Adventist Protestants are not Christians.
It should be mentioned, though, that many members of ISIS are not (devout) Muslims: a lot of them, especially the high ranking members, don't follow the rules / commandments of Islam they force upon the local population. For instance, I remember a news article that said one of the Paris terrorists (seen in the OP) was apprehended due to having soft drugs (haram) on him. I'm pretty sure many of the grunts drink alcohol (haram) and a lot of them have sex before marriage (rape of captured women, haram), for sure.
So, in conclusion, yes, ISIS et alli do what they do "in name of Islam", but when it comes down to it, they (or at least most of them) don't really care about the Islam and its values and only use it as an excuse to wreak havoc. Above all, the leaders of ISIL care about increasing their own power and well-being, they don't really care about spreading and defending Islam, they simply use it as an excuse to wreak havoc ("in name of Islam") and increase their own power.
>>24379782
Their ideology is exactly that of the khawarij, an extremist sect that first surfaced a long time ago but was defeated, however, their ideology still re-surfaces from time to time, but the groups are never long-lived, and neither will isis. That's also why people who say saudi arabia caused isis are wrong, since the ideology of isis, along with its refutations, go back way before saudi arabia was founded.
>>24380215
>Secularism is squashed all the time, in case you hadn't noticed.
Maybe if you're a dumbass micro-observationalist.
Macro-wise, secularism is currently running the entire world. (I bet you actually think communism =/ secular)
>>24380454
Saddam, Assad, and Gaddafi were all leaders who ran their country in a secular manner.
Look at what happened to them.
>>24379782
>Hezbollah
Shia militia, not Islam
>Nusra
Islamic group
>ISIS
>ISIL
Same group, Islamic as well. Considerably more hardline than Nusra
>Al-Qaeda
Islamic, although the regional branches of the organization have different policies in some matters.
>Boko Haram
Iunno lol.
Abu Bakr Al-baghdadi has a Ph.D i Islamic studies from University of Baghdad, one of the most prestigious in the field. He's also leader of ISIS. I think he knows a bit more about what islam is and isn't than your friend.
>>24380391
>There are no violent christian sects that I know of in contemporary society
The one Blackwater (now Xe) belonged to fits the bill.
>>24380518
Blackwater is a mercenary group that fought in the Iraq/Afghanistan wars. I actually watched a documentary on them.
They are, in no way, inspired by Christianity. They don't even have a church.
