Context: Knew this girl from school, we talked at length a few times, but I've asked her to talk again twice and she said she was busy. Asked her to let me know if she was free and wanted to talk three weeks ago, but she never mentioned it again.
Should I ask her for an unambiguous answer as to whether or not she wants to be friends? I'm not autistic enough to ignore the pretty obvious hints that she's dropped, but I can't help think that there's always a chance that she's just legitimately busy and doesn't realize that I do want to be her friend to this degree.
Is there any disadvantage to asking for a yes or no? If it's no, it was no anyway, right? And if it's yes, I don't have to worry about being overly persistent in spite of her hints in the future.
Any advice for poor old me?
>>24302746
> that I do want to be her friend to this degree
She would be your friend to that degree already but she doesn't want to.
>>24302746
She's not bringing it up for a pretty fucking obvious reason, man. She doesn't want to be friends and she isn't going to be friends with you and confide in you and it's not going to build into this passionate thing where one day you confess your love to her and she reciprocates.
What you're meant to do here is stop being thirsty, stop contacting her, and move on with your life.
>>24302746
>I can't help think that there's always a chance that she's just legitimately busy
There's nothing wrong with thinking that, in fact it is what should be assumed. However, if she was legitimately busy then she would get back to you if she wanted to talk to you.
>>24302746
After the first time she gives excuses like busy, you can't keep asking. TELL her you want to talk or do whatever. It's stupid, but you have to be forceful with most women.
It's very likely it's over with this girl, but if you're still stuck on her, try to be forceful one last time. Then, move on.
>>24302746
>Should I ask her for an unambiguous answer as to whether or not she wants to be friends?
>Is there any disadvantage to asking for a yes or no?
She's a woman, you're not gonna get a yes or no. You're gonna get something vague that means no.
Just move on already.
>>24303274
This is pretty much my train of thought. I don't expect anything and I'm actually not as optimistic as the guy above you seems to think that I am - the only reason I would ask her directly is to eliminate the tiny bit of ambiguity that's left. I fully realize that it's overwhelmingly likely that she just doesn't want to be friends, but, again, like I said in the OP, I don't see how making sure would *hurt* anything.
>>24303353
There is no tiny bit of ambiguity - you need to learn this and stop with this omega logic state of denial.
>>24302746
Anything but yes means no. She knows you want to talk to her. If she won't talk to you, she doesn't want you. Sorry, anon.
>>24303408
It's not denial - if it was denial, I would actually be invested here. I'm completely fine moving on, but I see no reason to before knowing everything about my current situation.
Again, what harm could actually come from asking her in a straightforward manner? At worst, it confirms what I already thought, and, at best, I don't move on for no reason.
>>24303470
What I'm trying and clearly failing to get through to you is that there's a line of polite rejection most people understand where they really obviously ignore or do not go through with something like saying they'll get back to you to talk or go somewhere or whatever and you are meant to get this without causing a fuss and just back away.
She's giving you the message in a clear and kind (to normal people) manner and putting her into a position where she has to outright reject you isn't cool.
Your need to persist is investment.
>>24303546
This.
It's the polite rejection that women give to not seem like assholes.
>>24303546
I don't disagree with anything except that what I'm proposing would "cause a fuss." Assuming that she's fine with implicitly rejecting me, I don't understand why making it explicit is anything but a good thing.
I fully recognize that, following social norms, I would just walk away at this point - I don't deny that. I just don't see the reason for these norms to be followed. They seem completely arbitrary.
Assume that she's already rejected me (which I think is obviously the most likely scenario). Why would she feel uncomfortable being redundant if I explain exactly why I'm being direct?
It's investment in the loosest way possible, fine, but it's so minimal that I don't think that calling it investment really captures my mindset. I'm ready to jump ship at any time *if I actually see a hole*. Why should I prematurely jump at heavy indications of a hole, when waiting for certainty does no one any harm?
I mean, it really comes down to certainty vs. extremely high probability. I see no reason why the latter should be preferred when the former can be gained with 0 rational downsides.
>>24303238
Pretty based response t b h
>>24303728
>autism
I'm going to ask you to go back over everything you wrote in that post and I want you to understand very clearly that I am not being an asshole to you when I am explaining that normal people (ie - this girl) think the complete opposite to you about these scenarios and no amount of you trying to justify why it shouldn't be uncomfortable for you to force the issue to get a response from her will change this.
Instead of acting like human interaction is logical, especially with females, and you can treat their need to resolve things in a certain way that doesn't click to you because you are socially inept, just try - try to comprehend that this is a lesson you need to learn.
Hijacking the thread for a similar situation
>Meet girl at a party
>Hit it off really well
>She's giving all signs of interest
>I had to leave early so I didn't have the time to take her number
>Next day, she adds me on fb
>Take it as a sign that she definately is interested
>Message her saying hi
>She apologizes and says that she can't talk atm
>Think that she's legitimately busy
>tfw she never gets back
Did I really make the wrong assumption?
>>24304035
Your argument is basically "people don't care about logic, so you shouldn't try and convince them otherwise." The burden is on other people to justify why irrational emotions matter in the least. I understand that they *do* matter to them - I've never disputed that fact - but they *shouldn't* matter, and deterministic "that's just how it is" fatalist rhetoric doesn't change the fact that all people have free will and social norms are norms by choice. They're not inviolable physical laws - they can be discarded at any moment. Anyone who chooses to uphold bankrupt mores for literally no reason other than "because I feel like it" has no right to complain when someone acts in a way that actually makes sense.
Are you right on a descriptive level? Most likely. Are you right on a normative level? Definitely not, and normativity is all that matters when dealing with people.
Dude stop talking to her, and don't post this classy picture of someone you are not.
You are clearly boring the shit out of her.
>>24304256
My reaction
>>24303274
This kinda logic is easily defeated.
If a girl you wanted to fuck/gave a shit about messaged you, would you find time to get back to her within the span of a month?
Obvious answer.
This is the difference between male & female communication.
Men fire straight at the target and hit it.
Women fire around the target, make a fairly clear silhouette around it, and leave it for you to interpret.
Men get confused because they're looking at what is hit instead of the bigger picture; i.e. the silhouette.
>>24304145
You are beyond any help until such time as you come to terms with the simple fact that everything you said has no value whatsoever to most people.
No-one is ever going to feel any burden whatsoever to justify themselves to you in the way you expect and your persistent need to insist in trying to force the square peg of logic into the round hole of the normal human psyche isn't going to ever work out for you.
Austically insisting your way makes sense flies in the face of the simple truth that only people like you ever act like your way makes sense.
>>24304388
Yes, because it's so autistic to believe that 2+2=4, regardless of whatever a schizophrenic has to say about it.
>>24304388
nah, I actually agree with him for the most part
When I don't feel like hanging out with someone, I outright tell them because I don't want there to be the possibility of me accidentally stringing them along if I'm not direct enough.
Bullshitting your way around people in social interactions is why we have so many frustruated young men out there looking too into all of the "signs" that women throw out when, at the end of the day, those "signs" might not mean anything and it's a vague territory. Erasing all doubts with a clear-cut and direct answer should be the responsibility of everyone so we don't have to play this bullshit game of trying to read the minds of women, even though we'll always fail at doing so.
>>24304465
except the games women play are communication, you're just not adept at interpreting it.
i can see where you're coming from, it's almost like it's an optical illusion or some shit and you're stuck viewing it from one perspective only when you need to be able to rotate between both.
there is no way to explain female communication to somebody, you just need to see it.
the same way people can't read body language well, or read emotions, you can't just say "if the lips are pursed they are angry" because that's potentially wrong, you just need to 'know' whats happening.
>>24304465
>Erasing all doubts with a clear-cut and direct answer should be the responsibility of everyone so we don't have to play this bullshit game of trying to read the minds of women
Agreed, this mind-reading bullshit just makes everything so much harder. Why do women even insist that we should be able to read their minds?
>>24304504
>there is no way to explain female communication to somebody, you just need to see it
I see it all the time and it's confusing as hell. It's not something you can just interpret, because female communication isn't something you can read. Sure you can get used to the motions of women, but actually UNDERSTANDING what it is that they're communicating with you is very difficult to impossible. >>24304072
basically came across a girl that gave off all the right signs, and look at what happened to him? She added him on facebook, which is a sign of clear interest in at least being acquaintances, only to decide that she apparently can't talk to him and is busy, never responding again. At least explain why it is that you can't contact the person anymore, and if you come up with an excuse like "I'm not obligated to tell you" or "it's not your business" then you should've blown him off right away on the spot instead of feigning interest in him.
and for what?
It's incredibly selfish to just leave someone in the dust like that.
>>24304504
Communication in the form of language which directly contradicts its own ostensible meaning (e.g. "I'll get back to you later" translating to "I won't get back to you") is ridiculous. There is literally no way to justify it over clarity and precision.
Can it be interpreted? Sure. Can it be interpreted as easily, as consistently, or as accurately as direct language? Hell no.
Mr. Darcy was a real G when it came to bluntness:
``You are too generous to trifle with me. If your feelings are still what they were last April, tell me so at once. My affections and wishes are unchanged, but one word from you will silence me on this subject for ever.''
almost 100% chance she doesn't want you
but I'm with you dude, what do you have to lose? she's already said no so you lose nothing by her affirming it again
although she may gossip to friends etc that you're a 'creep'
if she has no relation to any of your social group (including family) ask again, because you have nothing to lose
if she knows girls that you might want to pursue in the future I'd just leave it, because she could spread gossip and ruin your future chances
ask yourself, if you were justin beiber or some other famous rich person girls liked, would she really be so busy?
do you really want to be with someone who doesn't like you as much (as in, not at all)
the relationship will be a one sided power battle. she has all the power because you like her more than she likes you. she is the one with the power to say no, and trust me girls love that shit
>>24304701
Here's another factor: I highly doubt that she's the vindictive type. The main problem here is that I see her regularly due to mutual interests, which is a reason why I'm hesitant - if it does go wrong, it would just be annoying to deal with in the future. I would have absolutely no qualms if I didn't have to interact with her in the future. That's probably the best objection that has been raised so far in this thread.
How would she have any power, though? She would, hypothetically, have leverage (if I gave her it - I think I would see it coming before it became an issue though), but she has nothing to leverage. I don't see anything that she would gain from "having all the power."
>>24304634
You seem to be of the belief that being able to interpret female signals is the minority, and people who can't are the majority.
That's not the case, the majority of society is adjusted with the minority being unadjusted.
>>24305491
Where did you get that idea? I've admitted numerous times in this thread that I'm capable of reading the hints that have been dropped - I just don't see a point in the system as a whole, so I don't see why I shouldn't circumvent it if possible.
>>24305516
Inferred from this:
> Can it be interpreted? Sure. Can it be interpreted as easily, as consistently, or as accurately as direct language? Hell no.
But I haven't read the rest of your posts cause this is an anonymous imageboard so I have no idea what posts are yours.
I was just goin off your reply to my post.
>>24305543
Alright, fair enough. I wasn't saying that the signals are uninterpretable, just that they're *comparatively harder* to interpret than plain language. Even if hints work (and they do, for the most part), they're just not efficient or useful compared to the alternatives.
>>24303325
If you are gonna push for a yes or no answer, don't even bother, it will probably be no. If you are looking for a chance of her going after you, distance yourself and if you find yourself around her. Don't sperg, be based as fuck
