Is God the bad guy in the bible?
Had to go to church with the family today and i noticed something
In the bible Satan barely does anything. They say he was the snake but all the snake did was tell Eve she would gain knowledge if she ate the apple, which was true. It was god who banished adam and eve and created death and cancer and toil and pain and suffering and disease to torture them not Satan. When you die you don't go straight to hell and if you were really good god tries to rescue you, what happens is god sends you to hell himself for not measuring up, god created hell and sends us and satan there.
Satanists are often said to engage in animal sacrifice but Satan never asks for that or does that in the bible. God does, he demands animal sacrifice for thousands of years, as blood payment for the apple thing. He impregnated a teenage middle eastern girl so her mangod son could be butchered as more blood payment. This is god's thing not satan's
God is the one who kills all the first born children of Egypt for the sins of their fathers not satan. God says jesus paid the blood sacrifice back but disease and death remain, and there does not appear to be anything we can do to sufficiently repay god for the apple thing to get him to end it. Think about it, there were no viruses in Eden, so god fabricated them when he kicked us out of the garden, said jesus paid him back for that but never stopped the viruses.
no he was just lonely and socially awkward
>>24077583
But he works in mysterious ways anon :^)
I think there's a significant disconnect between who Christians think God is, and how he's described in the bible (kind of a dick).
God also killed everyone on earth during the Noah incident for being "wicked" but does not tell us exactly what they were doing so we don't even know how to avoid doing it again
And he burned everyone to death in Sodom and Gamorah for unspecified sins
satan never did shit
god is ok by me, he knows what normies deserve
Satan is like a really cool guy, y'know. He tells you to do stuff for yourself and not deprive you from pleasures. But also to be respectful towards others, as much as fucking destroying them if they do you any wrong.
God pretty much put us here to make us suffer. I strongly believe we're here just for his mere cruelty. But who knows...
>>24077599
yeah that's basically what i was thinking
god non stop kills people and does horrible shit in the bible i don't see how he is some all loving thing to thank for anything good that happens or pray to
>>24077583
The bible is bullshit. Only sheep believe such nonsense. If god was real he'd definitely not act like a evil and jealous person. The god in the bible sounds like the real Devil to me
Reminder God told Abraham to kill his only son by cutting his throat with a knife
i mean what the fuck, how is that something you ask someone to do? how is that even a thing, who the fuck though of that story
>>24077583
And there's nothing wrong with that. God is not a hippy. He's righteous and any punishments he gives out ate deserved (except the death of His Son).
The sacrifices are indicative of our need for payment for the sins we've committed against Him.
>>24077789
what do blood sacrifices have to do with anything
how does it make sense that a supernatural being thirsts for blood
>>24077583
To be honest. Satanism ain't that bad. Its pretty cool actually. Makes a lot of sense. I feel like Satanism should be the new Christianity. Except you know, it'll make sense
>>24077877
>To be honest. Satanism ain't that bad. Its pretty cool actually. Makes a lot of sense. I feel like Satanism should be the new Christianity. Except you know, it'll make sense
there was a real religion like this from biblical times that was not necessarily Satanism but thought the god of the bible was the bad guy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism#Main_features
guess who eradicated the follows of this religion and why
>drowns the entire human race other than one guy and his family on an ark
>the good guy
E D G Y
>>24077583
The christian God is just a shitty demiurge, turn to gnosticism for basedness
>>24077846
Blood sacrifices are used for black magic. Its called blood magic. Blood magic and working with demons go hand and hand. Basic left hand path stuff
If you think he's bad, his angels are even worse. They come "down" to fuck humans and then just fuck off back to magic fantasy land.
>>24077846
It doesn't, really. It also doesn't really make sense that a being like God would want anything at all; let alone all of the incredibly specific and arbitrary things Christians are convinced God wants.
>>24077599
Check the new testament son. God has a turn around and accepts us a little better. You are thinking of the old (jew) testament. When God had to deal with those people and their idiocy. I'd be kind of an irritable God too.
>>24077940
>>24077958
i have asked my pastor about it before and he just basically didn't even get the question, his response was basically
"What part of blood sacrifice do you not understand"
as if it just naturally makes sense and it was like i was asking him why water was wet
>beeing this ignorant
>>24077984
>Believe im mangod or burn in hell forever
yeah how accepting
jesus basically invented hell; previously hell was not specified in the bible (jews don't really believe in hell) and the worst you had to worry about was god coming down and smiting you
now all of a sudden he wants to torture your ghost forever when you die too
wonderful
>>24077846
He needs atonement because there has been a criminal act (sin) committed. He doesn't just murder for fun. Those people are not innocent. He is a infinitely holy and righteous God and they've committed treason. The fact that He hasn't wiped the earth clean is a sign of His long-suffering mercy.
>>24077984
IF anything it's just that Jesus is cooler in the New Testament.
People are still idiots by the way, and God still made them that way, so he's still a massive dick.
>>24077986
The occult bro. It opened my eyes
>>24078006
>jesus basically invented hell
Pics or Jesus didn't invent hell. It's fanfic.
>>24078006
SJW triggered. MODS hurry! Get help!
>>24078016
the question was "why does he need blood payment, what does that have to do with anything" and the answer is "he needs blood payment"
that's not an answer
what is the reason animal blood is payment for apple eating
>>24078016
>murder
>merciful
If he's so merciful, why can't he just forgive them?
>>24078018
Thank you mods
whoever you are you are doing gods' work and i'm a fedora tipper
>>24078033
jesus talks more about hell than heaven
>>24077986
God would require a sign of devotion. It doesn't matter what but it has to have symbolic and real value. Blood fulfils both those.
Just be glad he chilled and no longer asks for blood sacrifices.
>Why can't I act like a dick without repercussions?
>Satan is the good guy he lets people do whatever they want
The only reason Satan gives us the time of day is to prove to god that we're worthless shits that would rather destroy ourselves than serve god.
God gave us free will to do whatever we want with our lives, but don't get upset if you don't get to paradise by being a dick. You got exactly what you wanted, a lifetime to be a dick and do whatever you want.
>>24078036
You are trying to take a spiritual and symbolic concept and rape it until it bleeds logic. You must be a lot of fun at parties kek.
>>24078051
it does not matter what it was so let's make it blood
religion i swear
I always like to think of God as a dude just playing Sims
Yeah, it's fun to see prospering families and happiness, but every once in awhile you just want to fuck everything up and watch all of your characters die.
That's what God does.
It's all in the name of fun.
>>24078067
>mfw anon doesn't understand the extremely basic concepts of metaphors and symbolism.
Have you been tested for autism?
Are speaking philosophically here? You guys DO now that god isn't real?
>>24078018
Its hairy. Because I don't get fucked. I do the fucking
>>24078088
Whatever helps your tiny Virgin dick sleep at night senpai
>>24078055
it was not symbolic , god literally demanded the throats of animals cut and the blood as sacrifice as the primary means of atonement for sins
asking why a god wants something like that is not some tiny little symbolic detail
i don't see how "LOL UR NO FUN AT PARTES" is a response to that honest question about a religion hundreds of millions of people still live and die for
>>24078085
What the fuck is blood a symbol for?
>>24078085
literally sacrificing animals to a god is not a metaphor anon
Lol autistic trolls are hilarious.
>>24078036
Its blood magic. Some left hand path occult shit. Demonaltry
>>24078039
Breaking it down simply, God is the definition of an absolute perfect being. To be allowed near God, the sin must be cleansed.
Traditionally this was done using an animal sacrifice, but God allowed his Son to come down and live as a perfect man, knowing fully well that eventually mankind would use him as the sacrifice.
The sacrifice of Jesus was the one act that allowed sin to be cleansed, as Jesus essentially is acting as the bouncer for heaven.
if god has existed forever why did he just make everything a few thousand years ago? what the hell did he do for the eternity before that?
>>24078135
>Breaking it down simply, God is the definition of an absolute perfect being.
and he created viruses to torture us because we ate an apple
>>24078135
*To elaborate a bit more on that, the sacrifice of Jesus was done in atonement for our sins, as his offering to us.
He spoke of us believing in him, and that he would take care of the rest.
>>24078153
yeah that clears everything up
go with christ
>>24077583
> He thinks the bible says good people go to heaven.
> Not knowing child molesters who believe in Jesus go to heaven if you believe in the bible and not catholic brainwashing.
I'm getting sick of this stupid misunderstanding.
>>24078148
This is easily disputed as God created the world in a form of perfection, and that sin entered into the world by the hand of satan. Viruses and such things were not present at creation, or for even a started minimum of seven days afterwards.
>>24078106
I'm not a virgin. I'm not a religious nut job saving my self for marriage
>>24078135
Okay, but why can't he just fucking forgive people?
>>24078132
Depends on the will of the user and their intent. Jesus as a martyr eliminated the need for that. There are ancient Hebrew rituals to show devotion and appease God (magic is real, but not like you retards think of it as) that is now unnecessary because we can have a direct and personal relationship with God.
Also yes, confessionals are scams. How do you think the Catholic Church got so powerful? All that shit is unnecessary extravagance... but if you create a situation where you cannot have a relationship with God without the aid of the church.. then of course they are going to get your tithing and more.
>tfw God is just projecting onto Satan
>>24078036
Read Hebrews 10, up to verse 18 at least.
>>24078039
God is not required to pardon sinners just like how judges are not required to pardon criminals. In fact, criminals should always be condemned. So if God chooses to do so, He can. But how can He do so and maintain His righteousness? Romans chapter 3:26.
I'd quote directly but filters are messing it up and my phone doesn't see the problem text.
>>24078171
It's unfortunate that this is a reality we live in. God is the authority on these matters, and the Bible is the document which bears His word.
The church is intended to be an organization which people could gather and learn the Word of God. This was due to the fact that nobody had books for themselves two thousand years ago, and the parchment with writing was highly valued.
Reading through the Bible is the only way to know the Word of God. The church is meant to give you an opportunity to learn the Word of God. Anything that the church says that falls outside of the Word of God is, quite literally, heresy.
>>24078172
>This is easily disputed as God created the world in a form of perfection, and that sin entered into the world by the hand of satan.
the bible does not say this, you should read genesis, god is the one who creates sickness and death
>>24078148
>because we ate an apple
It's more about breaking boundaries and taking a stand against god.
>>24078188
He has to make a statement to Satan. That humanity can't rule themselves. When the world turns to absolute shit he will intervene and "I've seen enough of this shit" similarly to the great flood.
The difference this time is that Jesus has now sacrificed himself to atone for our sins, making us able to join him.
>>24078171
molesting children is literally not a sin
>>24078232
>It's more about breaking boundaries and taking a stand against god.
that's deep bro real deep
>>24078232
Don't bother with them. Autistic people have a hard time with abstract concepts.
>>24078232
Why does he need to prove anything to Satan? Why doesn't he just put an end to his shit once and for all?
>>24078231
I think you may want to refresh yourself on this matter.
The Bible states that God distinctly allows things to happen, this does not mean that God "creates" sickness and death.
Take for example a person who finds out they have cancer. In no grasp of the sense does God "magically" spawn cancer in them. But things have happened in a sort of cosmic sense that brought them to this point.
Matters of suffering are presented as a stepping stone on the path of life. Seeing the world through a sense that everything is a learning experience is what is intended.
>>24077583
Pretty much. He's the most petty character in the whole thing.
>creates a being in his own image
>gives him curiousity
>being goofs
>PUNISHMENT FOR ALL OF YOUR DESCENDANTS DESPITE THE FACT THAT THEY DINDU NUFFIN.
>Yo Abe, i know you wanted a son forever, so i got you a son
>but you have to kill him now
>lol jk don't kill your son you crazy bastard.
>Instead of just making the hewbrews and shebrews free, i`m just gonna fuck Egypt up because free will
>God is love, God is forgiveness
>>24078036
Also it is an answer. The blood represents the life of the being. Life is required to make atonement. Read some of Hebrews 10 to understand it's ultimate use.
>>24078232
>He has to make a statement to Satan.
I thought the statement would be that some humans are worth saving and choose to side with him of their own free will.
>That humanity can't rule themselves.
Isn't this a message for humans?
Every culture in history has spoken with spirits, demons, aliens, dead ancestors etc. Spiritually is an innate part of being human. >>24078287
Again old testament..written by jews.
Lets all agree. Science is cool
>>24078296
>Again old testament..written by jews
Jews, who were God's chosen people. Doesn't discredit it in any way
>>24078278
>The Bible states that God distinctly allows things to happen, this does not mean that God "creates" sickness and death.
satan does not create anything
there was no virus in eden, then god kicked us out of eden and created virues which did not previously exist to torture us for sinning
satan does not create viruses or death, god does, god "cursed the ground" and made it hard to grow food and made us toil
satan is never said to create or have the power to create anywhere in the bible
http://biblehub.com/genesis/3-17.htm
>>24077583
Jesus is just such a fucking Mary Sue of a god who dindu nothing wrong and just wouldn't die.
>>24078296
Jesus was literally a jew
>>24078311
He also forsook them on several occasions and made them wander the desert for 40 years because they pissed him off with their idiocy and idol worship.
>>24077583
The snake told Eve specifically that she would "Become like a God" and gain a perfect knowledge of Life and Death, and specifically told her "You will not die". God tells them specifically "You will die if you eat from that tree". They eat from the tree and, big surprise, they die.
I don't get how you could possibly think the snake was telling the truth here unless you were being deliberately obtuse and letting your dislike of Christianity stand in the way of basic thinking skills.
>snek says
>1) you will not die
>2) you will become like a God
They eat the fruit and they do not become like Gods, and they die. C'mon man, he's wrong on both accounts.
>blaming god for cancer and having colds
top lel
Philosophy is the basis for more than you give credit anon.
>>24077789
>except the death of His Son)
I don't get the big deal over the whole Jesus thing. Its not really a death considering he knew he'd be fucking resurrected anyway.
>>24078232
the part I don't understand is why you're not allowed to change your mind after you die
like say, an honest atheist, a man who was an atheist because he genuinely just didn't find the idea of god plausible rather because he secretly hated god or whatever, dies and sees god is real, and goes "wow, so there really is a god! I'm glad I was wrong". god goes "nah it's too late now, should've believed while you were alive" and he goes to hell? why does that have to happen?
>>24078291
>Also it is an answer.
it's literally not, repeating the statement blood is needed as payment does not explain why an omnipotent supernatural being would thirst for blood in the first place
>>24077583
Nah desu.
>>24078295
>Isn't this a message for humans?
In a way, yes. Both god and Satan know that Satan's way isn't working out, but he's playing out the entire scenario before he wrecks Satan and his followers.
Satan is just trying to take as many with him as possible to the grave. As the ruler of this world he's rigging the odds in his favor.
>>24078346
>and they die
They don't die right away. In fact they only gain knowledge to begin with.
They die because god casts them out.
>>24078374
Yes, which the snake says won't happen. God was pretty straight forward about what would happen and was actually telling them the truth when he said they'd have to die if they ate from the tree.
>>24078337
So he's not exactly loyal either. Don't get me started on the whole Job fiascal either. How people can read this and still believe God is the good guy is beyond me
>>24078287
>God creates this perfect world
>Shits cash
>Satan gets all jealous
>Meanwhile, Adam and Eve are just chillin' out
>Satan, understanding that humanity is God's greatest creation, knows what'll really piss him off.
>Convinces Eve to do the one thing God said not to do
>Eve convinces Adam to follow suit
>God is pissed, kicks them out of the house
>Still chill though, says we can crash in the guest house
>God can clearly see us through the front window as we're pissing on his lawn
>Says we can come back inside if we just show Him that we're sorry.
>Some say sorry, others just spit in his face and continue to fuck his property up.
>A few hundred years pass and God feels bad for everyone sleeping in the guest house because we fucked it all up
>Says to his Son, go tell them that they can come back inside
>Jesus goes to the guest house and says we can come back in
>A few people believe him, a few don't
>Eventually a bunch of them get together and just fuck his shit up
>Jesus goes back to the house and says
>Forgive them Father, they know not what they do
>God forgive us
>Says we can come back inside if Jesus thinks we're cool
>Still spitting in his face
ISHYGDDT
>>24078346
>The snake told Eve specifically that she would "Become like a God" and gain a perfect knowledge of Life and Death, and specifically told her "You will not die". God tells them specifically "You will die if you eat from that tree". They eat from the tree and, big surprise, they die.
the snake was telling the truth, they ate from the tree and gained knowledge, and if they ate from it again they would become immortal, however god prevents this from happening by putting a "cherub" with a flaming sword by the tree to kill us if we get near it again
the snake did not lie, the snake just did not know god was going to loose it and put a firesword wielding angle there to stop us
And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."....After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.
gen 3:24
Stop making Satan out to be a good guy/innocent bystander.
God has done things which we wont always understand. We weren't always meant to.
I don't know about you guys , but i don't want to burn in a sulfur pit with weeaboos and bronies for all eternity. Trust in his judgement.
>>24077583
God is a mistranslation, god came from the Hebrew word Elohim.
Elohim is plural for god... gods.
Multiple not just one.
>>24078397
they don't read it
they just think they know what it says
that's literally the answer, the christians in my family carry their bible back and forth to church year in and year out but they have never literally read the whole thing
>>24078346
The snake lied, definitely, but can you blame Adam and Eve for eating the fruit? The only other being they had interracted with in their entire existence at that point was God. The guy who knows everything yet didn't have the foresight to say "there's this dick around, don't believe his lies." In fact, why not just NOT put the tree there to avoid a chance of them fucking up?
>>24077583
If you follow back origin stories there's actually an entire pantheon, but God is the head god and only he gets worshiped because another god in the pantheon kept desiring kid sacrifices, so because of this discrepancy some of the things in the bible get attributed to the CEO when in reality it was a sadistic offshoot manager. Iirc.
However Adam and Eve is older than that point and is a bushman legend just blaming women for all of men's problems which is what is going on in RK9 90% of the time.
>>24078429
>The snake lied,
no he ddint see:
>>24078406
>>24078359
It's all about having faith, the ability to believe in god despite not finding any hard evidence to support your claims.
But trying to find god is one way to get closer to him. The fact that you've tried your best to find proof of him can be seen as a way of devotion.
If you truly regret not taking the leap of faith you probably get in anyways, if you've been a good guy otherwise. Same goes for people that never got the chance to perceive religion or make any moral choices (dead babies, etc.)
>>24078439
Even if its true, my point still stands.
>>24078406
>still being this obtuse and letting your bias against Christianity get in the way of basic thinking.
The story is like a couple of paragraphs man, how are you doing this? The snake literally says "If you eat from this tree, this fruit right here, you will become like Gods and you will definitely not die!"
God says "If you eat from this tree, you will have to die." They died, bro. The snake was literally lying to them, there's no other way around it.
>B-but if they ate from this OTHER tree, then they would have lived forever and then the snake wasn't lying!
Yeah, if only he told them to eat from THAT tree instead of the one that would have gotten them killed, lel.
>>24078429
I honestly feel fine placing responsibility on them for it. The directions are pretty clear: "If you eat the fruit on this tree you will die and there's no buts about it, sorry." They ate the fruit, and then they died. It sucks but there it is.
>believing in something without objective evidence
All non-agnostics are basically retards. desu
>>24077583
God is God.
Gods cannot do any wrong.
>>24078359
Read Hans Urs von Balthasar. The answer is "maybe, but we sure hope so even though there's no evidence for it."
>>24078355
Well first you have to remember that He was God, the source of ask life, in Whom ere live and move and have our being. And He existed for all eternity, and yet somehow us subjected to death for three days.
Not only that, but He endured the full wrath of God intended for sin and sinners. Christ, though he did not sin, was treated as sin and took the punishment of those who would believe upon Himself. This is shown in the epistles. And before His crucifixion, on the night of betrayal, He was pleading for the cup to be removed. The cup symbolizes the wrath of God, as shown in the Old Testament which Jesus knew very well.
And even more so, He did not have to die, but it was His desire to redeem God's creation. His creation was alienated from the holiness of God when Eve ate the fruit, and only a life of infinite value could make full atonement of crime against an infinitely righteous and holy God.
>>24077583
Satan is God too, fool.
Who is he, if not the divine prosecutor, judge and executioner?
>>24078456
the snake told them the truth as best he knew it at the time
god running in with a firesword does not make the snake a liar
>>24078429
Not only that, but it is also explicitly stated that at the time, Adam and Eve were oblivious to the concept of morality. It's unfair to punish someone who isn't aware of consequence.
>>24078314
"Cursed the ground" is commonly known to refer to Him allowing the earth (essentially all forms of matter) degrade over time.
When God cursed the ground, he didn't create anything. Nor did he destroy anything. He had forsaken his creation (mankind), because it was no longer pure. With mankind essentially exiled to earth, God chose to "curse" it by forsaking it, to an extent.
This is how things are said to degrade, because of a lack of perfection. A virus was originally not harmful, as shown by the way a virus develop into something worse over time.
>>24078401
>God creates this perfect world
>then makes the rest of the world a giant death trap shithole
>Adam and Eve get rused by a being God himself created (why?) into a tree God put in the perfect world that was NOT meant to be eaten (why?)
>Punishes them and their descendants until he decides to send his spirit son to "die" for us.
>>24078457
god is a concept, it's as real as chakras or reincarnation
mentally challenged idiots believe a man made concept with no evidence to back it up
>>24078493
yes he did read it, he cursed the ground and caused thorns to grow specifically
http://biblehub.com/genesis/3-18.htm
so god created the earth and the universe but not virues, make perfect sense
>>24078484
The fruit and tree he told them would not kill them was literally the same one God told them WOULD kill them. Sorry, dude.
Old and new testament gods are different.
Bar some parts like Genesis, the old testament depicts the jewish god. And he sure ain't God.
>>24078493
But God did create something, he created the process of land degradation.
>>24078445
I spent ten years reading all apologetics I could find and reading/listening to sermons (read the bible too of course) because I think christianity is beautiful and I wish I could believe it. prayed on my knees numerous times begging to get some feeling that something was out there listening. it never worked, I can't believe.
the weirdest thing I realized recently is that as a result of all this seeking I've come to love God, even though I still don't believe he exists.
>>24078456
>If you eat the fruit on this tree you will die and there's no buts about it, sorry.
But this is GOD giving the instructions to beings he JUST created and they had no sense of morality. They where esentially children. They had no idea what the hell was going on and who the devil was, and God didn't even bother giving his new creations a heads up. Either God was just setting Adam and Eve up to fail or he was being purposefully dumb to lead them to their own devices to get done in
>>24078362
Blood represents the life. When you sin against Him your life is required. This then begs the question of how exactly animal blood pays for your personal sin. It doesn't.
As mentioned in Hebrews and other books, the animal blood is only a shadow and does not pay for sin. The blood of Christ is what pays for our sin fully and justifies us before God.
>>24078522
you are reaching
they didn't die from eating from the tree, god runs in and does a bunch of shit and punishes the snake and makes the snake eat dirt
basically nobody knew what was really going on in the garden, the snake was not "lying" he had no idea god was going to come down and fuck everyone involved in the apple eating like that
it's not like the snake said he was not going to fuck eve then fucked her as a deceptive trick
>>24078537
There's no indication given that they're retards, anon. If someone tells you "bro if you do this you will die", and you do it and then die, that's tough luck but don't be surprised.
>>24078538
You realize you just interchanged the word blood with life right? It gets is nowhere. The question still remains. Why does God require a "life sacrifice?"
>>24078473
>only a life of infinite value could make full atonement of crime against an infinitely righteous and holy God.
What you don't understand is no life was taken. A "life of infinite value" wasn't paid, so the entire ordeal jesus went through on Earth is fucking pointless. How God, who is all-knowing and had been around forever, couldn't predict that that would happen is fucking dumb.
>>24078483
Perhaps you should try actually reading the Bible at some point.
It's pretty clearly stated that Satan is pretty much that jealous kid who wants to fuck your shit up because he thinks God is too privileged.
Hell is quite literally designed for Satan and all the angels who followed him, not for mankind. It's just where you end up eventually should you choose to follow him and not God.
>>24078533
St Thomas Aquinas had the same problem, he said he eventually made a "Leap to faith" which is often misquoted as a "Leap of faith"
but a "leap to faith" means he stopped trying to find reasons to believe and was just like "fuck it i am just going to believe all this shit for no reason"
it worked for him, maybe you should try that
>>24078543
God tells them they will die if they eat from the tree, they eat from the tree, they die in result. It's straightforward.
>the snake was not "lying"
>he literally lied
>>24078533
I has to count for something. What more can he ask for than a guy that loves him and wants him to exist?
I meant most people that say that they truly know has experienced some sort of personal "miracle", but not everyone can experience a miracle or suffer from Jerusalem syndrome.
It's called Gnosticism, OP.
Congratulations on waking up.
>>24078566
God is watching his favorite movie called reality, and despite knowing how everything unfolds, still enjoys sitting back and watching it happen. How is that wrong of Him?
>>24078567
Hell isn't in the bible.
>>24078483
I can agree with this. Either god is all-powerful and Satan's evil was only created by his power or god is not all-powerful and therefore he's not God.
I'm leaning towards the latter since things don't always seem to go the way he wants.
>>24078585
Because his favorite movie is people suffering horribly. Your god is a snuff film fanatic.
>>24078533
As the other poster had stated, simply believing that God has a plan and just trusting him to guide you along is something he desires.
>>24078533
You know God exists. Everyone does, whether they repress the truth in unrighteousness or not (Romans 1). No one can live life as we do without Him. Without God there is no basis for abstract transcendental entities which are necessary to have objective laws. And if we have no objectivity, then morality, truth and logic are all illusions. But no one lives like that, and it makes no sense. Without truth and logic we can't even think or speak or behave rationally.
>>24078585
It's wrong because it's a waste of time, it's completely futile.
>>24078584
>that image
Chuuni as fuck.
Cool new fantasy novel though, let me know where I can subscribe.
>>24078578
they die because god comes down and kills them
not because the tree was poison
the snake only knew enough to know they would not drop dead from eating from the tree, which was the truth as the snake knew it, the snake had no idea god was going to come down and kill his children and force the snake to eat dirt
how could he have know that, it's not a lie, it's a round about troll by god on all of us by giving the snake imperfect knowledge
if I said to you "Don't drink that beer or you will die" and someone else later walked by and said "lol bro one beer wont' kill you, just drink it" and then i came in and killed you thus fufilling my threat, that does not make the other guy a liar, it makes me a giant troll for putting everyone in that situation being that i knew what i was going to do and nobody else did
>>24078614
>chuuni
Fuck off weeb.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demiurge#Gnosticism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demiurge#Yaldabaoth
>>24078609
yes, I'm familiar with the explanation that I just secretly don't want to believe. it's pointless trying to argue with it, there's no way for me to prove what's in my mind to you over the internet.
>>24078553
>If someone tells you "bro if you do this you will die", and you do it and then die, that's tough luck but don't be surprised.
Well, first, i have awareness of what death is. They didn't.
Second, the only beings they had interracted with where themselves and God. The fourth one was the devil, who they had no idea existed. Or was even bad. For all they know he was God's messenger. Or maybe even God's creator. How is it their fault that something way above them fooled them into making a mistake? Worse yet, how can a God of forgiveness not even understand the situation and see how they had been used in this situation? Even humans, with all our flaws, can understand when others are manipulated into doing things they don't understand. Yet the all-knowing Lord couldn't? Really? Not only that but he's all-seeing too, where the fuck was he when the devil was just walking up to Eve and lying to her? Why not stop her before she fucks up?
His insitence on punishing them AND their offspring is what leads to shit like Cain and etc being born, which just increases the number of bad people on the planet. He could have just killed Adam and Eve and Created Tom and Jane and removed the tree but nope, lets just create a world of shit instead.
>>24078584
Does this have anything to do withenki?
>>24078596
Angels also have free will.
In a way all this shit is god still having some respect for Satan and giving him the time of day to prove him wrong. He was his best and brightest before he created humanity after all.
>>24078564
Life is required because, before a righteous God, sin requires punishment otherwise he'd no longer be righteous. And to pay for sinning against an infinite God, the best one can offer is their whole life.
>>24078622
They die, which is exactly what God tells them will happen.
>the snake only knew enough to know they would not drop dead
Have you even read the section in question? It's only a few paragraphs long. You're reaching here by trying to find support in things that aren't even in the text. Nowhere does it say "the snake knew they wouldn't drop dead IMMEDIATELY, but didn't know if they would die later". It does say, explicitly, "the snake told them that they would not die." Period.
>>24078643
It's their responsibility because they knew in advance what would happen if they did it, and then they did it.
What if god and satan are the same person?*criss-cross* m.knight smhalsmnam om nom
>2015
>not treating the bible as a work of fiction
>>24078609
>necessary to have objective laws
Laws don't have to be objective. Humans don't have to base their morality on god.
There is no objectivity when it comes to humans so yes, technically truth doesn't exist in an absolute and human sense.
But that's no reason for humanity and society to fall apart.
>>24078661
you should read Genesis
the snake tempted them with the truth, sorry
the snake being a liar is not even really a theme in the story you are just making that up
>>24078647
Yes. The Sumerians are describing the same Archons.
>>24078661
>It's their responsibility because they knew in advance what would happen if they did it, and then they did it.
See. you're not addressing any points at all. You're doing what everyone in church does and just address broad strokes when people try to discuss this with you.
>>24078601
You're sitting in a chair, in your heated house, talking to other people online in comfort, and you're bad-mouthing God, who allowed all of these things to happen.
The prophet Elijah was fed by birds while starving in the desert, and still thanked God for watching over him.
>>24078673
3/10 rating, you didn't put in any effort. I'm going to stop responding though.
>>24078609
Why do we need "transcendental entities" to determine how the universe works? Why isn't it possible for the laws to result from the behaviour of particles? Also, anything that has transcend reality that still plays a role in said reality, hasn't transcended shit.
>>24078673
This. The snake in the garden is a liberator and ancient Christians knew this before the Romans established a cult of the Demiurge.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophites
>>24078694
lol
i know you are just fucking around but this is literally the shit religious people say
truly infuriating
>>24078694
>You're sitting in a chair, in your heated house, talking to other people online in comfort, and you're bad-mouthing God, who allowed all of these things to happen.
So you give God credit for my comfort, how about those billions who struggle to find a meal every day?
>>24077583
hhnngg
>>24078671
If truth doesn't exist then how can you even make a truth claim about truth let alone anything? Having no objective truth and logic is self-refuting. You use them to make claims. If they don't exist you can't make any claims that are right and true.
>>24078718
i spent 10 mins trying to find the rest of the set on google and bing
cant find it
>>24078650
>giving him the time of day to prove him wrong
Yeah, all the humans of the world suffer because god can't even control the universe he created.
And that's who we're supposed to worship.
The fact that god will smite all the non believers, can't it be considered jealousy? Snuffing peoples' lives just because they don't want to serve him?
>>24078700
If only the physical exists, we lose objectivity because then laws of thought (including laws of logic) are completely subject to each person's own brain. And no one has the same brain so there is no objectivity there.
>>24078596
>Hell isn't in the bible.
Read Revelations 20.
Just because an English word isn't in the Bible doesn't the the concept behind the word isn't.
>>24078145
he probably watched anime
>>24078745
Well yeah, we're talking a guy with all the power in the universe yet somehow decided to create little beings who are meant to worship him ALL the time but somehow decided to let them have free will so that they can CHOOSE to worship him all the time. He's an egotistical maniac if he's real.
>>24078566
I'm not sure I understand your last comments there. But Jesus did die. Is your problem that since He resurrected, that means he didn't die or something like that?
>>24078401
>all this shit happens despite God being omnipotent
How? I don't understand.
>>24078761
No we don't. The objective is still there, whether we realize it or not.
>>24078636
>Fuck off weeb.
Back to reddit.
>>24078694
The creator arranged all possibility, included the possibility of horrible suffering. He is either malevolent or incompetent. There is no satisfactory answer to the problem of evil and suffering. All the mental gymnastics provided by centuries of theologians have failed to invent one.
The Demiurge is malevolent. Accept it. You already know it to be true. All Christians of every sect have felt the immanence of Satan. They sense that evil exists, yet refuse to entertain the idea that it's the "god" they're worshiping that causes this sensation.
The true God had no hand in the creation of this awful universe.
>>24078613
Time is only valuable when you are required to live by it.
The only reason time matters for anyone is because trying to sit and do nothing for an extended period of time will eventually cause starvation.
Think about it; God is omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient. Time is not a factor to him in any way.
>>24078795
The simple answer is that God allows evil for a good use (see Platinga). The real question how does evil originate, which is an answerwe will not know.
>>24077583
The god of the Bible (i.e. Torah) and the Qur'an are violent, judgmental and harsh.
Some kid named Paul tried to retcon god into being loving but it's difficult to change the past. At least he tried.
>>24078810
butthurt demiurge worshiper
keep worshiping the archons that are robbing your loosh
You should read Demian by Hermann Hesse, as most of the point of the book seems to just be discussing this philosophical issue.
>>24077583
>http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/34722155
BBC stop shilling your show
>>24078791
It was heavily prophesied that he'd rise from the dead, so its not as if the sacrifice was of any meaning considering the guy knew he'd be back. Its not really death if you know you'll be back eventually.
>>24078815
It's still completely pointless.
>>24078798
Okay you're claiming that but what's your basis for believing it? Where and what is that within us which accounts for and gives us access to objectivity?
>>24078721
Humans make contradictory truths. Doesn't mean we can't make logic.
Also your reliance on this "god" module to use basic unrelated "logic" and "truth" APIs troubles me.
>>24078667
>2015
>Says the Bible is fiction
>Hasn't even read it
Until you read the Bible from cover to cover, how can you even state that it's fiction?
Just the fact that the Bible contains multiple historical records and lineages is qualification enough to grant it status as a chronicle, not to mention every other scripture within.
>>24078716
Don't worry about them, it's all in God's plan. :^)
>>24078775
>And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
>The lake of fire is the second death. Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
Can't it be interpreted that only those three will be stuck in hell forever, as it mentions later that regular people get thrown in there as a second death.
>>24077614
>does not tell us exactly what they were doing so we don't even know how to avoid doing it again
angels falled had sex with woman thought people sacred things created nephilim world become wicked so god cleaned it
>And he burned everyone to death in Sodom and Gamorah for unspecified sins
>satan never did shit
you are missing a point, my friend
they did gay stuff, sexual wickedness, even tried to fuck the angels of god
satan is not the punisher, he is the "idea giver"
if you folllow his words, you are punished by god. dont forget that he is an angel of god. just like how eve listened the snake and got punished by god.
>>24077631
>>24077716
ignorance. read above
>>24077738
he was testing his obedience
>>24077877
makes sense in what way? eleborate
>>24077927
there is no good or bad. god is not good, he is neutral.
Protip: Jesus was an alien.
The guiding light was a UFO
The virgin birth was Jesus given to Mary/ hybrid implanted in her womb
Easter is Jesus being removed from the tomb by aliens
Dying for our sins was choosing not to be rescued, to both protect us and set an example
Ten commandments was Moses meeting with UFO atop Mount Sinai
Jesus' miracles were made possible because superior alien genes
Judaism and Christianity were alien inventions to encourage society to develop in the way beneficial to them. They wanted peaceful evolution to harvest our mutations and create hybrid races.
Everything else is irrelevant. Go to church, you're worshiping a lie.
>>24077583
God=Dick Chad that everyone assumes is right
Satan=Misunderstood robot that everyone hates for no reason
Any further questions?
>>24078821
An all powerful and all knowing being wouldn't let any of that shit happen. If it is true, then it has led to do much suffering for so many. Am I supposed to believe that children dying of cancer is evil for a good reason? What sort of capricious being would allow that? Furthermore, how can we inherit the sin in the garden of Eden? That's not righteous. That's not fair.
>>24078692
new guy here.
To go back to your original point, when you said they didn't know who he was at all, you're adding words to the text.
The Bible doesn't state whether or not they knew who he was, it states that he appeared to them in the form of a snake.
Pretty good disguise, if you ask me.
>>24078908
>god is not good, he is neutral.
bahahahahahaha REALLY? Nigga have you even read a bible in your life? I'm not gonna bother arguing with this, i`ll let the christians argue that
>>24078851
Ah okay I ser. But I still posit that Christ did receive the full punishment of God required for sin against Him, and He did truly die, and was dead for three days even such that his believers seemed to all lose hope of His coming back. His punishment was on the cross, and He endured it completely (it is finished). If the price of sin was not fully paid, then in that case he would not rise again. His resurrection is our hope that God indeed accepted His atonement for our sin.
>>24078927
So this is gonna be one of those situations where since the answer isn't known we give the benefit of the doubt to God, right? If not i'd say he was just using a form they'd be familiar with. Just like God did with the burning bush.
>>24078870
I'm not saying that we necessarily have access.I'm just saying that it's there. There obviously has to be some sort of governing force, otherwise there's complete chaos. All I'm trying to say is that I don't see why that it has to be some "transcendental entity", and why it can't be the result of natural processes.
>>24078775
>Revelations 20
That isn't hell as we understand it though.It says Abyss. And it's Satan's prison.
There's also no mention of immortal souls and people going to the abyss too.
Also Satan isn't in there now, not until the 1000 years.
Satan is Prometheus.
>>24077940
this guys knows
>>24077941
lol
>>24078036
jesus told at bible that they were old rules and not accurate anymore
>>24078039
justice
>>24078046
you need to know what will happen if you dont listen or you might do whatever
>>24078052
this is somehow accurate. needs lotsa explanation tho
>>24078900
The Bible describes that hell and paradise were originally separated by a chasm, and that hell poured over into paradise when heaven was "unlocked" for mankind. It states in the parable of Lazarus and the rich man that there is no escape from hell, formerly known as hades.
>>24078932
It's fair to think god is true neutral in a non-biblical sense. I believe this at least, a God who leans toward a side of polarity would never have created this universe the way it is.
>>24078947
This brings up the question of God being unable to forgive. Nothing humanity did is in any way a thread to an all-knowing, all-powerful God. If he'd just forgiven Adam and Eve for fucking up once, everything would have been solved. If he'd just NOT put the tree in the garden, none of this would have happened. If he'd warned Adam and Eve of the devil's existence, none of this would have happened.
The way you just explained it also doesn't mean shit in the grand scheme of things. So Jesus was tortured for a bit and died temporarily. This is of no bearing to a being who is from heaven and knows he'll return.
>>24078932
i did
good is a human understanding concept
there is no good or bad. there is just evolving of soul. and god is the one who arranges the scene. how you will use the scene is up to you, and some of your actions will end up with suffering, and some will end up with niceness
>>24079002
>It's fair to think god is true neutral in a non-biblical sense
>in a non-biblical sense
See, the problem here is Christianity is based entirely on the bible being the word of God. The moment you start saying shit like that is the moment we have to discard the bible in its entirety.
God created man in his image, which is why we have an innate desire to create and invent things, even life in some ways.
We also put restrictions and deal with lesser beings that act out of their control. Rabid pets get put down, fear of AI's that won't be devoted to us, etc.
>>24079033
>God created man in his image
Or we created God in our own image.
>>24078871
If we can make logic that would make it subjective to us. We'd be able to make any logic we wanted, but that doesn't work. The law of non-contradiction is always true. It well never be false. We cannot fabricate a logic that contradicts this. If the law of non-contradiction we're ever false, I can't imagine how our communication, intelligence or reality itself would exist.
For example, the law of non-contradiction states that, in the same sense and at the same time, it cannot be both A and not-A are true. This is the basis by which we categorize and differentiate things and even talk intelligibly. If that law were false, then our words would have no meaning because they would both mean what we say and also mean what we did not say. And if that's true, our words essentially mean everything, and this every one of our words would have absolutely zero difference and nothing would be communicated intelligibly.
These laws of thought cannot be subjective to our arbitrary construction.
>>24079033
man created god in his own image, an angry god who punishes of his children who disobey and is constantly killing people and demanding love in return
because man was not creative enough to think past his own petty emotions and the people who wrote the bible were middle eastern assholes
just like today, if the middle east decided to come up with a new religion today, what goes on over there and what kind of god would they create?
the same kind
>>24078908
>testing his obedience
i swear if i hear this stupid ass excuse one more time
>>24078052
I didn't know not believeing something which I can't believe because it sounds like utter bullshit was part of being a dick. I could be the nicest dude in the world and still go to hell because I wasn't gullible. Don't try to act like the stupid system described in Christianity has any semblance of justification, that we're just dicks so we deserve it.
>>24079047
thus god needs blood
logical
>>24078812
1 John 4:1 - Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Corinthians Chapter 11:13 For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
The core concept is there in the Bible, plainly written - many will be deceived into think that satan is God, or that there are many gods. The works of evil are the result of corruption and deception.
John 3:17 - And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
>>24078074
fun ideas. not correct but a perspective that i somehow agree
>>24078087
>tips
>>24078115
your moms virginity
>>24078135
>To be allowed near God, the sin must be cleansed.
this is correct in a sense of how karma works. rest is not tho
>>24078145
there is no another being as god. god is the sum of everything, which is us
>>24079061
what will u do faggot? cryyy???
>>24078920
>Mortal
>Says God doesn't know what he's doing
You forget one thing - God knows everything, and just because you don't see the end of the story, just believe that there's an ending.
Everything happens for a reason, my friend.
>>24078920
Your problem is that you've assumed that every person is inherently righteous and does deserve punishment, but the Bible tells us otherwise.
And regarding the inheritance, that's simply how God designed the family. The father represents the household, so his sins fall upon his children. Then Adam sinned and so we also inherited that sinful nature.
At this point you'd basically be saying that God's ways are wrong as judged by your supreme standards. But who is God here? Why is it unjust for God to define the family like so? Did He not create it?
>>24078543
Punished Snake, a Fallen Angel
>>24078955
It's a hard situation to understand, because we don't know what went on in Eden or even how much time elapsed between creation and man's fall from grace.
It's a question with a moot point, because regardless Eve went against the will of God. He gave a commandment and she purposely disobeyed.
Even with your beer story, when your bro told you not to drink it and you went against his will, you defied his order. And for that, Eve was punished.
What's the best book and why is it acts?
>Sequel to the Jesus quadrology
>New locations
>Regular people performing miracles
>Jewish sorcerer named Bar-Jesus gets rekt
>Lengthy trial in the courthouse
>>24078956
Because natural processes don't explain objective laws of thought (an example of transcendental entity). If our thoughts are only the result of our brain and its electrochemical processes, then our thoughts cannot be objective, because no one has the same brain. If you're just going to say "there has to be some force," that's an arbitrary answer.
>>24078963
Rev. 20 -
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
>>24078171
everybody will go to heaven eventuall. its just a matter of how much bad karma you have, and you will pay those in hell. hell has circles. the one who will suffer longer is the satan himself
>>24078172
everything were in the creation. just that the evolution of soul was too slow that god brought satan for bein a catalyst
>>24078200
>Depends on the will of the user and their intent. Jesus as a martyr eliminated the need for that. There are ancient Hebrew rituals to show devotion and appease God (magic is real, but not like you retards think of it as) that is now unnecessary because we can have a direct and personal relationship with God.
it is because soulds evolved to that point after thousands of years. why do you think the rules were different before? god made a mistake? lol no. because people were not ready and needed different rules for evolving. think like lower classes of school
>People who don't understand Satan is the tempter and deceiver and not the punisher
Go read Paradise Lost and maybe then you'll understand better.
>People think that the snake in the garden of Eden was not satan
Oh lawd.
>Quality thread on /r9k/
God is the ultimate normie
>>24078821
This is the best explanation for that I could find, but it's Jewish.
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/361900/jewish/Kelipot-and-Sitra-Achra.htm
>>24079157
>Even with your beer story, when your bro told you not to drink it and you went against his will, you defied his order. And for that, Eve was punished.
Again, i`m not an omniscient being and even i can process the situation. The 10 commandments say "thou shall not kill" yet God instructs his followers to kill loads of times and they're all willing to do it. He doesn't say "well, i know i told you to kill but i also said don't kill. hell for you, friendo." A just God would have understood the situation or at least put precautions to prevent the situation (something as easy as NOT putting the tree in the garden, or warning Adam and Eve of the devil)
>>24078232
>It's more about breaking boundaries and taking a stand against god.
no. its the represantation of free will
>>24078278
>God distinctly allows things to happen, this does not mean that God "creates" sickness and death.
god created everything
>But things have happened in a sort of cosmic sense that brought them to this point.
there is no cosmic sense which god has not created
god created everything as it is and wanted it to be like it was, is and will
>>24078287
thats how it seems from a normal perspective if you read it with face value yes
>>24079008
>Clearly has never had a moocher living with them
When does the forgiveness end?
The whole reason that any of this happens is because God knows that with our free will, we are capable of making wrong choices.
I still remember my first cigg I ever smoked, my father forgave me and I told him I wouldn't ever do it again. 8 years later and I'm sitting here chain smoking.
>>24079167
The whole old testament is a sick series desu. Best horror piece ever written.
>>24079197
>the one who will suffer longer is the satan himself
Lucifer gets created by god as his right hand man, Lucifer sees that god is a dick and rebels, gets sent to hell for all eternity.
Why again are we worshiping a god that can't even create a trustworthy sidekick?
>>24078200
please explain how magic is real.
>>24079262
>thats how it seems from a normal perspective if you read it with face value yes
Which is how any text should be read. Reading the bible when you already believe it is just reaffirming your own belief and you don't actually learn from it.
>>24079264
>When does the forgiveness end?
It doesn't. You can forgive someone over and over.
>>24078308
science is satan
>>24078346
snake was tellin the truth
god created the whole scene for the utter development of humans
god made his angels bow infront of humans, because we will be god with our free will when the journey of soul ends. and we needed satan for that. because if there is only goodness, then you cant choose, therefore there would be no free will
>>24079008
The problem is not if sin is a threat. The problem is God's righteousness must be maintained. See what I wrote shortly here: >>24078016
Regarding His punishment, we can clearly see in the Bible in the Gethsemane garden that he was deathly afraid of what He was to endure, so afraid that He was sweating blood when praying there on the night before His betrayal.
And of course He would rise again. Everything would cease to exist if God died and simply did not return. Where would He even be? Every soul is eternal and God governs where humans go when they die physically. I'm not saying Jesus went to Hell, but both heaven and hell are God's domain; one for His eternal mercy and grace, and the other for His eternal righteous wrath. Moreover. God is the eternal one, the great I AM, the source of all life. Death cannot contain Him.
>>24079167
best book is EcclesiasticsEverything is meaningless." 3 What does man gain from all his labor at which he toils under the sun? 4 Generations come and generations go, but the earth remains forever. 5 The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises. 6 The wind blows to the south and turns to the north; round and round it goes, ever returning on its course. 7 All streams flow into the sea, yet the sea is never full. To the place the streams come from, there they return again. 8 All things are wearisome, more than one can say. The eye never has enough of seeing, nor the ear its fill of hearing. 9 What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun. 10 Is there anything of which one can say, "Look! This is something new"? It was here already, long ago; it was here before our time. 11 There is no remembrance of men of old, and even those who are yet to come will not be remembered by those who follow.
>yfw someone laid down a massive fucking truth bomb right in the middle of the shit sandwich that is the bible
>>24077583
That's because you're talking about the worst version of bible. The one that doesn't make sense, because the church didn't want people to find the answers on their own, they watned to priests to have the monopoly on religious knowledge.
Seriosuly, everything including the child killing, why jesus had to die, why god needed a sacrifice in the past, it's all in King James bible or the Torah. Read up if you need answers.
>>24079304
everything is created by god
he is created to rebel and do his duty in the scene of life
there is no god other than the whole, sum, which is us
these are just metaphores
>>24079320
>Which is how any text should be read.
not if you are capable of more
>>24079368
>if you knew the REAL Christianity you would see im right!
>>24079071
Are you one of the earlier posters of this thread posting about the blood? I've answered your questions so far. Maybe you missed my last answer here: >>24078600
Also do remember that truth abd morality are transcendental entities like logic, so since He is a righteous and moral God, yes He needs blood.
>>24079337
As much as i'd like to keep arguing with you i just realized you've probably never looked at christianity from outside of it, so there's no proving anything to you.
My advice is read the bible yourself, and read it from a neutral perspective, instead of having a bias one way or another.
>>24079059
10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.
How much of the old testament is still canon? The 10 commandments?
>>24079401
yes we know he needs blood because he needs blood thus explaining everything
does that really make sense to you in your mind? that God used to command middle eastern people to sacrifice animals for blood payment?
is a simpler answer not that stupid people came up with some stupid fucking shit in the middle east and got everyone to believe it vs. the creator of the universe actually needing blood?
>>24079244
Right? I'm surprised, I never post on 4chan but the integrity of every debate in this thread is fantastic.
+1 /r9k/
>>24079250
I'll check this out thanks, but honestly I think this is simply an answer we cannot comprehend, as we are corrupt and limited in our reason and knowledge (among other things).
>>24079425
Whatever doesn't involve God being a dick.
>>24079425
all of it
For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
>jesus mat 5:18
"the law" refers to the old testament's 613 laws
>>24079481
If you're least in heaven you still get in right?
>>24079481
Then how did he fulfill the law as he claimed he was there to do?
>>24079258
The 10 commandments can be broken down into two categories, the sins against God and the sins against others, with others being a very personal concept. When they reference "thou shalt not kill", the Hebrew translation is lost in a sense that it means thou shalt not commit murder.
If it helps, you can sleep easy at night knowing that nowhere in the Bible does it indicate that God is playing with semantics.
And as for the tree being in the garden, we must remember that the garden was created by God, for himself. We were just guests.
>>24079521
i guess
jesus said any sin can be forgiven except blasphemy against the holy ghost
so he may have been saying that all the laws still apply from the old test but you can be forgiven if you break some of them but there will still be consequences in heaven but you still get in
>>24079402
Remember we're talking about Christian questions, so it's valid to answer a question about Christianity with a Christian answer. Man's view has no say as Christianity is defined in the Bible so a question regarding the consistency of the Bible must be answered from the Bible.
There is no neutral ground. Either God is the source of all things, including truth and knowledge or He is not and we only have absurdity. And the Christian position is to take the Bible as the word of God, wholly true.
>>24079530
not sure what you mean
by dying on the cross would be the answer if i think you mean what you mean
>>24079320
It can be thought of as someone who lives in your house catching ebola. You can forgive them for catching it, but you still don't want them in your house.
>>24079538
The ten commandments are filled by the two that Jesus gives; Love god with all your heart, and do unto others as you would have them do unto you
>>24079402
I've read all of these posts, and the person you're talking to is more versed on the scripture than I am. I would go so far as to say that he is probably the most knowledge person in regards to the Bible in this whole thread.
>>24077583
>kills a whole asston of people
>wants us not to fuck
>asks for sacrifices for seemingly no reason
>fucks with people for no reason other than 'muh test of faith'
god is basically normie girls.
>>24079568
By fulfilling the old testament law though his death then the OT law no longer applies? How is that not abolishing the law?
>>24079590
Thank you for referencing that, I had not thought to include it in my last post.
I was simply speaking about the old testament commandments in reference to the previous poster.
>>24079446
Yes, ours explained in Hebrews 10 which i think I already mentioned but can't quote because I'm on phone. Read like the first 18 verses. Yes He did command those ancient Israelites to spill animal blood, but He does not actually use that blood to atone, because it cannot. The animal blood is a mere shadow of the blood that does atone (the blood of Christ aka the Lamb of God). Just read Hebrews 10.
>>24079635
>Spares a whole asston of people
>Explicitly says to procreate
>Asks for sacrifices for a very specifically stated reason
>Lets shit happen of its own accord and doesn't interfere because it's the only way to learn
God is basically God
>>24079578
>>24079578
>You can forgive them for catching it, but you still don't want them in your house.
I wouldn't need to forgive them because its not their fault they got ebola, and in that scenario kicking someone out would only lead to the spread of ebla, as it did sin. Best option would be for me to leave and let them stay in a confined area( the house) and to get them help.
>>24079637
>By fulfilling the old testament law though his death then the OT law no longer applies? How is that not abolishing the law?
oh i see what you mean
here's the deal; Jesus studied the old law and was a very smart person and a sensitive person, as he walked around town when he grew up he saw horrible shit happening, he saw people stoning women to death for not being virgins, he saw people just in general being horrible to each other and he was trying to get them to stop, but in trying to get people to stop (for instance) stoning other people to death he got the local government (the pharisees, the jews) who were being occupied by the romans... pissed off
so they were following Jesus around and trying to catch him telling people to disobey god's law. .If they caught him doing that they could have him killed by the Romans, they were also trying to get him to tell people to break roman law.
So basically Jesus was trying to tell people to break the law but not break the law at the same time.
It's very fucking confusing and it's why nothing really makes sense.
Jesus was saying "don't stone people but you have to follow every single one of the old laws, which tells you to stone people"
they finally caught him trying to get around all this by saying he was the son of god so it was OK for him to say this shit and crucified him for it
thus making the problem a million times worse
>>24079701
My apologies, let me go ahead and stop bothering with metaphors.
(1) God was gracious to warn Adam about sin and its consequences. God told Adam not to eat of the fruit of the forbidden tree. He told him that if he did, he would die (Genesis 2:15-17).
(2) When Adam sinned, God did not immediately put Adam to death, as his sin deserved. Instead, God sought Adam out, and exposed his sin (Genesis 3:8-13). God also indicated the consequences Adam and his wife would experience because of their sin (Genesis 3:8-19).
(3) God promised to provide a cure for sin and death (Genesis 3:15). He also provided Adam and Eve with coverings (3:21).
(4) God graciously removed Adam and Eve from the garden, and prevented them from returning to it. He kept them from eating of the tree of life, lest they live forever in their sin (3:22-24).
>>24079685
funny how you think quoting that is a logical explanation for an omnipotent being needing blood
>why does god need me to rape children as stated in macabies 23?
because macabies 23 dude
