PLEASE STOP MOVING THREADS FROM /a/ & /v/ TO /jp/ AND JUST FUCKING DELETE THEM IF THEY ARE OFF TOPIC KTHXBYE
Did we get another gem?
As unfair as it is to /jp/, /jp/ really isn't a very high quality board to begin with. Still, I know quite a few of those threads should sooner be deleted than sent to any other board. Very few threads should ever be moved to another board instead of being deleted.
>>469586
>>>/jp/14930098
>>469596
>/jp/ really isn't a very high quality board to begin with.
It's better than /a/ and /v/.
>Very few threads should ever be moved to another board instead of being deleted.
Makes you wonder why >>>/trash/ even exists. It became a furry hangout instead of whatever purpose it was supposed to serve.
>>469600
It looks like a pretty average thread to me.
>>469606
You should go back to /a/ then. And take this with you on the way. http://boards.4chan.org/jp/thread/14930337/
Are mods really that unaware of /trash/?
For the first 3 days I saw threads moved there but since then it's seemingly abandoned and mods just move threads elsewhere.
>>469615
>You should go back to /a/ then.
You seem to have gotten into your head sometime in the last few years that /jp/ isn't trash. It's 2016. The thread you linked is indistinguishable in quality from your average /jp/ thread.
>>469602
>It's better than /a/ and /v/.
Depending on personal opinions, it can be seen as worse. Just look at all the Touhou nonsense at any given time. Some people might find that kind of thing offensive to what they like.
Thread moving is a cool site feature/tool, but it really isn't needed most of the time.
>>469641
>Depending on personal opinions,
Is your personal opinion that the constant meme spouting of a/ and /v/ combined with other dumb posts like "bait" to any post they don't like and "you will never x, why live" greentexts is not complete trash that lowers the quality of /jp/ every time someone posts like that?
And honestly, every Touhou thread that is based on a /d/ fetish should be moved to /trash/ if not /d/, but you and I both know you can get away with anything as long as it has a Touhou character in the OP.
>>469600
That thread pisses me off. Generalfags literally running around upset trying to figure out why their cancer general was banned
>And how exactly do we do that? Hand around on the catalog 24/7 and click refresh until it shows? Have them announce it here and crosslink?
>i have no idea how to use 4chan the post
I am of the opinion that ANY AND ALL off topic threads should be moved to /trash/. If it should be on /jp/ but it's posted to /v/ move it to /trash/. If it's anime on /co/ move it to /trash/. If it's politics on /sci/ then move it to /trash/. Always to /trash/. /trash/ should be more random and less ALL FURRIES ALL THE TIME.
And people who post the wrong thing on the wrong board should be punished by being thrown into the furpile.
>>469664
I know /v/ and /a/ are bad, but I find the "anything Touhou gets a pass" to be very bad for the board and for Touhou discussion. I'd like to use /jp/ but just a quick look at the catalog turns me away very quickly. A lot of people can handle it, but I can't stand it.
>>470140
/jp/'s elitism was deprecated years ago. All the threads that aren't general threads are of decidedly mediocre quality.
The general threads themselves are fairly decent, but are still only really accessible to a small, dedicated fraction of the board.
>>469585
Yes please fuck off mods you are systematically destroying the /jp/ ecosystem with bottom of the barrel users even too shit to not stand out on /jp/.
>>470147
The /jp/ ecosystem was destroyed a long, long time ago.
>>470149
There was a new one set in place which is more ontopic.
The /v/ and /a/ kids always fail to not be a giant eyesore with retarded /int/ and /pol/ threads and post.
>>470157
>There was a new one set in place which is more ontopic.
The new ecosystem is a bunch of general threads that do not interact with each other in any way. It wouldn't qualify as an ecosystem at all if not for all the random character threads filling in the gaps.
>>470161
The general threads need to exist or else we'd have those monstergirl furfags and idol stalkers flooding the board with threads. There aren't even any generals besides those and a couple of game based ones, plus the doll and fursuiter threads.
>>470977
>we'd have those monstergirl furfags and idol stalkers flooding the board with threads
No they wouldn't be.
>>470977
>The general threads need to exist
I'm not arguing for their abolition, I'm explaining why they don't constitute an ecosystem.
>There aren't even any generals besides those and a couple of game based ones, plus the doll and fursuiter threads.
You're right. With the exception of MGG, AKB, Babymetal, H!P, Perfume, alt-Idols, VN general, VNTS, Nutaku/DMM, Kantai Collection, Elona, Valkyrie Crusade, Gust, mahjong, rhythm games, dolls, kigurumi, fumos, denpa, vocaloid, drawthread, yukkuri, trains, scenery, tea, TVs, onahole, and JAV, /jp/ doesn't have any general threads in it at all.
Oh wait, between them, that's well over half of /jp/. What's left over is 95% Touhou / IM@S threads of approximately /a/ quality, and 10% random threads about Japan that arguably aren't even on-topic. Real fucking quality ecosystem you've got there.
>>470984
A board with generals is still better than 24/7 depressed neet blogs.
And you know why those generals are not half bad? Because they are made and populated by people who love their otaku hobby. People from /pol/ and /v/ are different. They hate their boards topic and want to talk about a lot of offtopic stuff while degrading every user and discussion of the boards topic.
We don't need a /v/ kid crying about some sjw twitter shit and we don't need /pol/ people spamming hiroshima threads and politics.
So again, please just delete those threads on your board or move them to /trash/ instead of putting those type of people on other topical boards.
>>471011
>A board with generals is still better than 24/7 depressed neet blogs.
I literally have not said anything bad about those generals. As far as I'm concerned they're the only part of /jp/ with a claim to quality (well, some of them). You have been arguing against a phantom this whole time.
I still maintain that /jp/ does not constitute an ecosystem in any real sense of the world, because in order to have an ecosystem the parts have to interact. Which is what I said in >>470161.
>So again, please just delete those threads on your board or move them to /trash/ instead of putting those type of people on other topical boards.
I don't see why Fate/EXTELLA would be considered "non-topical" in /jp/.
>>471011
>A board with generals is still better than 24/7 depressed neet blogs.
No it isn't. /vg/ says completely fucking otherwise. Generals are a cancer and don't belong on the site. Don't delude yourself into thinking they are actually good and that /jp/ is somehow better than what it was before.
>>470984
What would you add to it? Niggy threads? Shiki can kill servants threads? I'm not saying you'd shitpost, mind, I'm just asking what dynamic non-general threads would you have to propagate this ecosystem?
Also that's nowhere near half of /jp/.
>a bunch of general threads that do not interact with each other in any way.
I didn't address this before, but why would people who don't like 3D idols, monstergirls, or kigurumi want to interact with each other at all? The generals do mostly exist to contain things mainstream /jp/ doesn't like.
What kind of threads would have the whole board participating in it? I don't really understand what you want.
>>471015
It's not that it's "non-topical" in /jp/, it's that it's "non-topical" in /a/ and should have been deleted. You don't get "I'm visiting Japan" threads moved to /trv/ or Kancolle/Mobilegame generals moved to /vg/, they just get deleted. For some reason though, threads from /a/ and /v/ get moved to /jp/ and bring along the problematic posters with them.
>>471017
The problem with /vg/ is /v/ attitude posters and nothing else. Well, also that it absorbed a portion of /jp/'s topics.
>that /jp/ is somehow better than what it was before.
/jp/ is better now than at any time during 2011-13, and don't give me "/jp/ was better at the start" it was literally just touhou shitposters and stuff /v/ and /a/ didn't want.
>>471076
>I'm not saying you'd shitpost, mind, I'm just asking what dynamic non-general threads would you have to propagate this ecosystem?
Topical threads that aren't and don't become generals, meme threads, the occasional NEET / hikki thread, and threads where /jp/ gets together and plays some new release.
Practical obstacles to these four is that there isn't a topic with wide enough interest to support the first except Touhou Project, everyone hates memes, they're banned with extreme prejudice by the staff, and /vg/ took all the likely candidates.
>why would people who don't like 3D idols, monstergirls, or kigurumi want to interact with each other at all?
Why would any of them want to interact with /jp/? The idol threads might as well be anonymous imageboards hosted on Hello!Online or Stage48. MGG could exist in /a/ or /vg/ or /trash/ without being affected in the slightest. These aren't reasons to throw them out per se but there's really no point considering them part of an "ecosystem," which is what I was saying in the first place. (There was a point in time when the idolfags did actually interact with the rest of /jp/. That point in time is now long gone.)
>For some reason though, threads from /a/ and /v/ get moved to /jp/ and bring along the problematic posters with them.
How are /a/'s Fate posters any more "problematic" than the residents of any given /jp/ general? Are they unwashed secondaries who haven't played the VN? Do they not speak Japanese? I'm trying to figure out what this dreaded "/a/-level posting" is.
>/jp/ is better now than at any time during 2011-13
/b/ was better than /jp/ in 2011-13. It's not an achievement.
> it was literally just touhou shitposters and stuff /v/ and /a/ didn't want.
It still is.
>>471163
Other possible candidates for non-general threads might be discussion of otaku culture in Japan, the relationship between otaku culture and society, the aesthetics associated with otaku (you know, moe and that whole deal), series wars, and imageboard culture. (I'm just pulling this shit out of a hat here, there's probably plenty of shit out there. I'm too old for this shit.)
It's almost not so much the topics themselves but the ability to argue, throw bombs and have fun doing silly things. Except apparently here in /jp/ we apparently all got too mature for that kind of thing.
Touhou here is almost the singular exception because it's the only topic popular enough to support an actual ecosystem. And it's not stuck in a general thread.
>>471163
I remember when fumo threads used to be topical.
When every OP was a new story made from new photographs, with no copipe in the post.
>>471163
>How are /a/'s Fate posters any more "problematic" than the residents of any given /jp/ general?
Their attitudes. /a/ has this uppity attitude as well as spams "bait" to anything that doesn't match their belief set and all sorts of dumb greentext shit about waifus. /v/ has a shitposting and trolling/flaming attitude which is only meant to be disruptive and is the reason /v/ and /vg/ are shit. It's also "SJW this" and "reddit that" with them.
/jp/'s generals have their own issues, mostly with dumb fetish shit and roleplaying, but they aren't foreign posters to the board bringing the attitudes that ruined their own boards with them. The lack of them participating in the "ecosystem" will also ensure you basically never see them unless you go into their generals. On the other hand, /a/ and /v/ will get bored of their threads and try to make or participate in other threads on the board while keeping their shit attitudes.
>Topical threads that aren't and don't become generals
How does that happen? E.g. what makes Flanfly threads not generals?
>NEET / hikki thread
How is this Otaku Culture? Being lazy, poor, or crazy is not an inherent property of otaku.
>meme threads
>everyone hates memes
4u is a meme. Making the same thread with the same image all the time is just spam.
>where /jp/ gets together and plays some new release
Like what? Nothing remotely /jp/ relevant has come out. ToS is coming out but that's going into the shitter. Besides those phone game threads are the same thing. The threads about playing some game together are just proto-generals. If you think they aren't, explain why not. Define a General too.
>>471169
>the ability to argue, throw bombs and have fun doing silly things.
That sounds dangerously like shitposting, anon. "No fun allowed" you say? Look at /v/ and /vg/.
I'll say one thing about /a/ though, they could probably have an /ag/ without it being constant arguing, flaming, and 'doing silly things' in every thread, like how /vg/ is.
>>471196
Not all /vg/ generals are bad. It entirely depends on the posters' willingness to participate and create content.
>>471196
>the ability to argue, throw bombs and have fun doing silly things.
I want to talk about this more.
4chan is not about closing pools, calling Gamestop and asking for Battletoads, warring against Scientology/SJWs/Reddit/Ebaums/9gag/MAL/whatever, or any other sort of "epic trolling" of others or each other. That kind of attitude has always been cancer that ruined /b/, /v/, and to an extent /jp/* back when we actually had MMO threads and some people thought it was funny to piss off people in the forums who were already pissed off at /jp/'s ability to grind 20 hours a day and be on top. The constant spam and raids that /jp/ has had to endure made people tired of it all.
Do you really want /jp/ to just be filed with spam threads and anger again? Is that really what you think makes a fun and enjoyable board?
I mean seriously, make a mock OP here of the kind of thread you want, image and text.
*Although people were legit autistic back then, if not outright insane in their unnecessary rage. These kind of parody images that came from that time were hilarious. Although, they're funny because people would post them. In threads. When relevant. Opposed to this were the "I'm never playing a game with hotglue again" threads which were just spam that could have been a post in a MMO thread instead of needing a board slot to draw attention to itself. Same with these images. Unless you were asking for them, there's no reason to start a thread with them, unless you were asking a legit question like "Why is everyone in /jp/ so butthurt all the time?"
>>471221
continued due to post limit:
This is why I said "4u" is a meme. Making a thread with a pic of people from that movie and quoting it right from the start would be shitposting though. And to define shitposting: Shitposting is a purposeless post. Not even to troll or normal spam post or anything, just a post for the sake of posting, like those threads with some shitty song's lyrics in the OP. If you made a thread that said something like "post Otaku Culture" and filled it with pictures of parrots cooking and dogs jumping, I wouldn't call that a shitpost, but the threads on their own are at least spam.
>>471199
Create what content? You play the game, you talk about the game. If the game is dead, let the general die. It's worse with /a/ actually and would be the downside of /ag/, that anime soon end and become old. At least games have more longevity. A thread that becomes just making dumb memes about your game isn't really worth having a general for imo.
Basically, elaborate on what you meant.
>>471196
>/a/ has this uppity attitude as well as spams "bait" to anything that doesn't match their belief set
I'm having difficulty understanding what an "uppity attitude" is. Losing your shit when someone you disagree with appears leads to some pretty awful looking threads, but /jp/'s ability to kill with silence actually leads to even less meeting of the minds. If your end goal is a clean-looking board it's obviously superior, but my perspective is that the real loss is the nonexistence of a potentially interesting conversation.
>and all sorts of dumb greentext shit about waifus
Female character worship is a staple of /jp/, it's all the same shit (except maybe /a/'s dedicated "waifu threads", which are their own little world.)
>/v/ has a shitposting and trolling/flaming attitude which is only meant to be disruptive and is the reason /v/ and /vg/ are shit.
Shitposting, trolling, and flaming can be constructive as well as destructive.
>It's also "SJW this" and "reddit that" with them.
I don't think that's something you hear too often from the weebs in /v/. From what I could see of, say, the soku threads, any problems you had lined up with what you described "/a/ behavior" as rather than the typical gaming-culture paranoid.
>E.g. what makes Flanfly threads not generals?
They don't monopolize discussion on a topic. Nobody thinks twice about posting in one. The barrier to entry is, how do we say, not high. You asked more about generals later on so I'll elaborate on why exactly this is later.
>How is this Otaku Culture? Being lazy, poor, or crazy is not an inherent property of otaku.
Defining /jp/ by a label moot essentially picked out of a hat is something you can do, but I honestly don't give it very much prescriptive value. You pick a hat for your head, not the other way around.
(cont.)
>>471238
>Defining /jp/ by a label moot essentially picked out of a hat is something you can do, but I honestly don't give it very much prescriptive value. You pick a hat for your head, not the other way around.
Repeat this line but replace /jp/ with /a/ or /v/ (this time I'm mentioning them because they have clear titles). Does that make sense to you? You can define a board about video games to be about whatever you want it to be about?
>Shitposting, trolling, and flaming can be constructive as well as destructive.
No, they can't. That's not even their point. They're antisocial actions intended to disrupt.
>it's all the same shit
>You will never sniff your wife's farts, why live!?
Isn't really the same shit. Same ideal as "I want to sniff Patchy's ass!" maybe, but it's not the same.
>They don't monopolize discussion on a topic.
So people post "WADDAHFUK MAN!" in other threads? Please don't imply that those are in any way Flandre threads.
None of the generals monopolize discussion on anything. The idol threads in particular keep multiplying. Threads like the kig and Gust threads exist in one thread because they are barely only tolerated(that is, they'd be ignored/hateposted in if they made multiple threads) or else lack interest to bother making more than one thread. /jp/ is like a ghetto that contains smaller ghettos. (in a Jewish or Chinatown sense)
In fact, I'd say the doll and kig thread, as well as any thread about a specific game, like Elona, aren't even really "generals" in that sense, because there wouldn't be enough interest to have multiple threads. It'd just be someone asking some questions, getting a couple replies and the thread sinking.
>The barrier to entry is, how do we say, not high.
I'll be waiting for your explanation of how generals have a high bar for entry.
>>471238
>4u is a meme. Making the same thread with the same image all the time is just spam.
"LOL U MAD" is a post but not all posts are the same. Some are better than others.
>Like what? Nothing remotely /jp/ relevant has come out.
The last VN that /jp/ can said to have read collectively in any real sense is Grisaia. (I'm not counting Sakura no Uta or any number of new releases that VN General read together on the sole criteria that most of /jp/ is incapable of reading and appreciating it, as I'm looking for something that can be said to belong to the board as a whole. VN General in some sense is the core of what /jp/ should be but its still one of the little castles.)
The last game that /jp/ played other than an official Touhou release is... well, I guess it was DotS, but I'm not sure how many people were playing that. Before that nothing comes to mind except maybe that one Satori game, and like, the first Artificial Academy.
Having said that, neither of these were the "last release of their kind"; not by a long shot.
>If you think they aren't, explain why not. Define a General too.
This overflowed the post limit so I'll address it in the next post.
>That sounds dangerously like shitposting, anon.
At the end of the day "shitposting," as defined in the FAQ, is an intentionally contributed shitty post. For example, if you made it for the purpose of shitting up the board, or antagonizing people and deliberately manufacturing a huge shitstorm, or so on. You can label any post that's "low-quality" which you don't like as a shitpost but at that point you have gone deep into the realm of subjectivity.
Also, pointing to /v/ and saying "well, we tried that, and it's super trash" is not a great argument. It's like saying that if you have too much freedom you get Somalia and then using it as a generalized argument against freedom. Freedom is closely related to anarchy, but it's still something people like.
(cont.)
Man I haven't even finished responding to the first post and we're in overtime already.
>>471251
>Repeat this line but replace /jp/ with /a/ or /v/ (this time I'm mentioning them because they have clear titles). Does that make sense to you? You can define a board about video games to be about whatever you want it to be about?
/a/ and /v/ are topic boards, but if /v/ wants to have its deep sea threads and /a/ wants to have DJT, I don't personally have a problem with them if they're not actively cancering up the board. The mods do have an issue with it (actually, they have an issue with one but not the other) but that's another issue entirely.
Furthermore, at the beginning, /jp/ didn't really have rules. It was called "Japan / General," for fuck's sake. The title of a board does not determine the rules of the board. For a while /jp/'s rules actually did have NEET in them, which in my opinion was a fucking horrid idea (and if I were being uncharitable I would say it was part of a conspiracy to kick them off the board entirely, which did happen.)
>No, they can't. That's not even their point. They're antisocial actions intended to disrupt.
Shitposting can be creative. Sometimes poorly drawn pictures and bad movies are funny because of how poorly drawn and bad they are. Trolling and flaming sometimes results in interesting and informative discussion.
Just because most things you find in the Australian wild will try and kill you doesn't mean that there aren't koalas out there.
>Isn't really the same shit.
It's all the same level of garbage, except maybe in the sense that talking about a character is somehow better than talking about a category of characters. Not the kind of thing I'd expect someone to draw a bright yellow quality line around.
At this point I'm just going to stop throwing (cont) onto these things and just respond to parts of posts as they come up. Hopefully I get everything. I'll probably get to the thing about general threads eventually.
>>471196
>If you think they aren't, explain why not. Define a General too.
I would say that for /jp/, a general thread is any permanently existing thread that monopolizes discussion of its topic. Threads for releases last a few weeks, maybe a month or two. Then they stop existing, to only be brought up again every now and then for casual discussion.
The general thread is unique because it acquires an identity that subsumes all of its threads into it. There's a difference between a bunch of threads about X and "the X thread" because "the X thread" has a singular, persistent identity. Each thread is a continuation of the last; each thread is part of a larger whole rather than a standalone entity.
Take the character threads, for example. Utsuho gets a lot of threads, because /jp/ is Okuu Culture. But it doesn't really rise to the level of a general thread because they're not all thought of as different manifestations of the same thread; each Okuu thread is nominally unique. You might say something like "man, VN general sure was shit this week" because it's all part of one big thing. But any given shit thread about a 2hu is just a shit 2hu thread. If it gets REAL SHITTY people will leave it alone and it will die.
>>471267 (I probably should have continued this from the other post about general threads.)
>So people post "WADDAHFUK MAN!" in other threads? Please don't imply that those are in any way Flandre threads.
Flanfly threads don't have a monopoly on silly posts. Arguably they don't even have a topic. Nobody thinks the Flanfly thread is the correct place to talk about any given topic, except maybe that they're the right place to discuss art by Yamato Damashi, but even that's a stretch.
On the other hand, the Vocaloid thread basically is THE place to talk about Vocaloid. VN General is THE place to talk about visual novels (unless they are translated or you're shit out of luck.) Denpa is THE place to talk about denpa. It's not by design or enforcement, but the net result is that in /jp/ if you want to talk about X thing the only place you can actually do it is X thread. (None of these topics are intended as forcibly confined containment threads.)
>I'll be waiting for your explanation of how generals have a high bar for entry.
There's not much point in posting in doll general unless you own a doll (or maybe a fanatic kept away from dolls only by sheer financial insolvency). There's not much point posting in Vocaloid general unless you know all the major producers and are aware of all upcoming releases. You essentially have to be a subject matter expert to participate in the conversation. I know a bunch of Vocaloid producers and most of the better-known songs, and have listened to a good number of albums, but there's still not much point in me posting there when you should be about this educated to participate in the discussion: >>>/jp/14927170
It's not that the people are exclusionary assholes, because they're not. It's simply the thread convention only invites subject matter experts to participate. This sounds like a great thing but I'm convinced that it's really not as great as it looks. (cont.)
>>471226
Many generals like SS13G, domg, dfg, rlg, and hbg have anons that actually create mods/content and discuss the game beyond waifufagging and shitposting.
>>471276 (continued)
>This sounds like a great thing but I'm convinced that it's really not as great as it looks. (cont.)
As I was saying, it's not about active exclusion. If you show up there as the clueless idiot you are, they will be polite to you and point you to a guide, at which point I guess you can learn Japanese and come back in three years when you've become an expert yourself. Sure, it keeps the thread high-quality... but it removes the bootstrap process by which people come to /jp/ and kind of naturally assimilate into an interest.
The closest analogy I could think of is that /jp/ is kind of like a university with nothing but graduate programs. It's a good place to get high quality discussion. Not so good for anyone without a degree.
Having the equivalent of a high school and undergraduate program allows people at different levels to participate in the discussion and advance up the ladder. It's true that these aren't strictly necessary - if you're a really dedicated fan you can learn anything you want (the analogy even kind of works for school because you can get a complete undergraduate education in just about anything just by reading the right books, if you're dedicated enough.) But not everyone's just going to git gud and I don't that's the correct barrier we should expect people to overcome to feel like part of the community.
Yeah, it keeps out all but the most dedicated people (the true otaku), which is good for expert discussion, but it still feels somewhat hollow, like an institution made of nothing but visiting scholars. Good for information, not so good for identity or community.
>>471254
>You can label any post that's "low-quality"
Truthfully, low-quality posts are against the rules regardless of opinions, and people can, and do, get banned on those grounds.
>Freedom is closely related to anarchy
No it's not. Freedom requires freedoms be protected. Anarchy gives people the freedom to suppress what they don't like. To relate it to /jp/, if not for mods, basically every non Touhou thread would most likely be shitposted to bump limit and then spammed off the board.
also see >>471221 and >>471226
It's not that "we tried it and failed", it's that having an attitude like "boy, it sure is fun to annoy people!" is a problematic one.
>The last VN that /jp/ can said to have read collectively
/jp/ doesn't collectively read VNs any more than it collectively listens to Vocaloid or idol music.(When you say "VN general" so you mean the shitty(as in full of shitty posters, not shit because they're translated) translation one or the not as shitty untranslated one?) I think you should be careful of if you're deciding "games /jp/ collectively plays" are "games I(read: you) like", because "/jp/" plays KanColle, Melty Blood, various mobile and DMM games, the Touhou fighters, and Elona too in probably equal porportions to the people who read VNs.
>Artificial Academy.
I wonder why eroge of this type completely disappeared from /jp/, even as a general. It's not like they have greater freedom on /vg/.
In any case, it sounded like you meant like Cosmic Break and Minecraft and World of Tanks type together, not just people separately playing games. I meant no /jp/ related multiplayer games that weren't mobile/browser games have come out recently.
>Furthermore, at the beginning, /jp/ didn't really have rules.
It did. It's not some board moot created to talk about Japan, but a board he created because he was too stupid to want to make /vn/, /th/, and /fig/, so he said to just dump everything there. He probably intended it to essentially be the way it is now.
>>471294
>Truthfully, low-quality posts are against the rules regardless of opinions, and people can, and do, get banned on those grounds.
Using the word "shitposting" to label it all associates it purely with the people who were out to destroy a board. Just use "low quality" where you mean it.
>To relate it to /jp/, if not for mods, basically every non Touhou thread would most likely be shitposted to bump limit and then spammed off the board.
It's been a long time since someone organized a legitimate raid campaign on the board. Having a laxer attitude towards silly threads is not going to see the second coming of the 6-hour-board-wipe because /jp/ actually has mods now, which it never had before.
>It's not that "we tried it and failed", it's that having an attitude like "boy, it sure is fun to annoy people!" is a problematic one.
Most of the threads you're looking at didn't exist to annoy people. Flanfly doesn't exist because it's fun to annoy people. Neither do lyrics threads, or, for that matter, Saten threads. This doesn't mean that they should all stay, but you are ascribing malice to a lot of people who have none.
(cont.)
>>471294 (cont from >>471298)
>/jp/ doesn't collectively read VNs any more than it collectively listens to Vocaloid or idol music.
/jp/ doesn't collectively do anything anymore. Carefully organized sub-populations of the boards, who interact almost exclusively with each other, do something. This wasn't always the case.
>(When you say "VN general" so you mean the shitty(as in full of shitty posters, not shit because they're translated) translation one or the not as shitty untranslated one?)
I think it should be pretty fucking obvious given that I've said that VN general was reading Sakura no Uta, unless it got a speed translation when I wasn't looking.
>I think you should be careful of if you're deciding "games /jp/ collectively plays" are "games I(read: you) like", because "/jp/" plays KanColle, Melty Blood, various mobile and DMM games, the Touhou fighters, and Elona too in probably equal porportions to the people who read VNs.
I play some of these games. I'm also of the opinion that some of these subcommunities have very little to do with /jp/, and the reason for that is that they are exclusionary subcommunities that never had to conform to the former standards of the board and, really, never interacted with the rest of /jp/ in any way. In some cases the communities they interface the most closely with are outside 4chan entirely
Games I am talking about are games where it's obvious that dozens if not hundreds of people from /jp/ in general are trying out the game. It's not even clear if "/jp/ in general" exists anymore.
>Melty Blood
>the Touhou fighters
You'd think that if /jp/ had as many VN readers as people who play these games people wouldn't have to wait five days to get a game going. It used to have these communities, when you could get a game on /jp/ at any given day, but that hasn't been the case for years.
(cont.)
>>471294 (cont. from >>471300)
>I wonder why eroge of this type completely disappeared from /jp/, even as a general.
/jp/ decided to get rid of them on the grounds that they attracted people from /a/ and /v/, and accomplished this by shitposting at "crossboarders" and "EOPs" until they went somewhere less hostile. The fact that /jp/ itself became a shitposting board for many years didn't help.
>In any case, it sounded like you meant like Cosmic Break and Minecraft and World of Tanks type together, not just people separately playing games
That's not necessarily the case (though it does make it easier.) The examples I mentioned were AA and the Satori puzzle games. (I also count the official Touhou games). They're threads that don't host a dedicated subcommunity, where it was clear that dozens if not hundreds of people were playing and discussing the game together.
>He probably intended it to essentially be the way it is now.
This is definitely garbage. moot likes memes. moot is on the record as not liking general threads. He's said before that he liked /jp/ because it reminded him of "old /b/." Whatever you personally think the "purpose of 4chan" is, the state of current /jp/ isn't anything moot ever imagined.
I actually have a bit more to say on a point you made much earlier but at this point I'll stop wall-of-texting this thread and maybe breathe or something.
>>471251
The generals actually do monopolise discussion, even when duplicate generals are made.
People are too afraid to post "I beat Imperishable Night today" as a new thread when a touhou general already exists.
>>471261
continued:
I imagine moot's idea with the whole "condense your thread" thing was to have a proto /vg/ where people just made singular threads about whatever tangential /a/ topics instead of doing the right thing and making a board for each.
>I would say it was part of a conspiracy to kick them off the board entirely, which did happen.
This is because they become /r9k/ shit. It's a bad idea to promote /r9k/ shit(rather the shit that ruined /r9k/).
>Sometimes poorly drawn pictures and bad movies are funny
4u
And if even if it's universally funny the first time, it's not funny the next literally 2900 times you post it as the op of a thread.
>It's all the same level of garbage
It's not about a quality line, it's like the difference between a dickgirl and a trap. Both are shit if you don't like dicks, but they are different from one another. It's just a matter of culture, not quality.
>>471267
>Then they stop existing, to only be brought up again every now and then for casual discussion.
You mean "Why don't people talk about X" "X is old and busted." Thread dies.
>Each thread is a continuation of the last; each thread is part of a larger whole rather than a standalone entity.
How is flanfly not? Because it's the exact same shit each time while even generals find new things to discuss?
Also I'm sure the generals will die when their topics die out. It's just, unlike short lived anime and slightly longer lived games, none of the /jp/ general topics usually die out. New idols replace old, there will always be more dolls, etc. They don't really have the chance to evolve into something that only discusses the memory of the topic. In other words:
>Threads for releases last a few weeks, maybe a month or two
There are always new releases for them. Would you like a seperate thread every time an idol group gets a new member or releases a new song?
>each Okuu thread is nominally unique.
Each flan thread is exactly the same.
>>471294
>Anarchy gives people the freedom to suppress what they don't like
I’d just like to interject for a moment. What you’re refering to as anarchism, is in fact, communism/anarchism, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, communist anarchism. Anarchism is not a political system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning communist system made useful by Bakunin, Kropotkin and vital system components comprising a lack of governance not quite as defined by Marx.
Many freedom-fighters love a modified version of the communist system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of communism which is widely loved today is often called “anarchism”, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the communist system, developed by many important political scientists.
There really is an anarchism, and these people are loving it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Anarchism is the state-focused term: the term in the system that allocates the state to list of governance that you hate. The term is an essential part of a political system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete political and economic system. Anarchism is normally used in combination with the communist economic system: the whole system is basically communism with anarchism added, or communism/anarchism. All the so-called “anarchism” distributions are really distributions of communism/anarchism.
>>471276
>Arguably they don't even have a topic.
Arguably, they shouldn't exist then. Pointless threads are what? I don't really buy that flanfly doesn't have a monopoly, because it's the same thing every time. No one would post any of its content outside of it except in direct reference to it.
>It's not by design
Kondense ur thredz
-m00t
>enforcement
/jp/ bullying
Lots of people don't actually like Vocaloids, so it is sort of confinement, yet there's nothing stopping anyone from making threads about them or their music. Denpa isn't a popular enough topic, it's literally just one genre/subgenre of music. Untranslated VNs, as you said, aren't able to be experienced by enough to be popular, but aren't confined to a thread at all. Don't expect a discussion about something people can't read though, nor expect them to care enough to learn Japanese.
>There's not much point in posting in doll general unless you own a doll
There's not much point in posting in random doll thread unless you own a doll
There's not much point in posting in okuu thread unless you like okuu
There's not much point posting in flanfly thread(your next line will be "you don't need a point to post in flanfly thread")
>You essentially have to be a subject matter expert to participate in the conversation.
In other words you have to "lurk moar?" Is that really bad? But I guess that's not the point here.
Even so, what's the alternative(i.e. low bar)? Vocaloid butts and anuses? I'm pretty sure those get occasionally made anyway. If untranslated VN threads were made, they'd have the bar of being proficient in Japanese to even begin to make ignorant opinions about them, and this is something that wouldn't change general or not.
>>471277
Okay. This is a good reply.
>>471076
>The problem with /vg/ is /v/ attitude posters and nothing else.
Holy shit you don't even know what you are taking about. /v/ermin are in no way, shape or form the problem with /vg/ or generals.
>I didn't address this before, but why would people who don't like 3D idols, monstergirls, or kigurumi want to interact with each other at all? The generals do mostly exist to contain things mainstream /jp/ doesn't like.
Because that is how 4chan is meant to fucking work. A board is a bunch of different people being forced interacting with each other, not being a small set of circlejerks who hate each other and think the other smells like smellier shit. Fuck off generalfag.
>>471335
Flanfly threads are one of the few good things in my life right now.
That says a lot.
>>471337
Good image. I like it.
>>471288
I honestly still feel that everything you said in that post IS good and politely suggest that perhaps you should consider visiting another institution.
Less politely, go shitpost in /s4s/ and then come back to /jp/ once it's out of your system. "/jp/ - my friends are here" is stupid.
It's contradictory, but board loyalty is stupid. It's a larger scale version of the insularity that created the problem with generals(Namely their posters) If generals are a bunch of little boards on a board, 4chan is largely a bunch of different sites connected by a web portal. /a/ and /v/ posters are annoying but this is because they are /a/ and /v/ posters and not 4chan posters. Because they're used to their boards being a certain way and intentionally or unintentionally make other boards the same way as theirs. The reason their boards are bad though, is due in part to them wanting to have everything on them. This whole "identity and community" thing is the same. /jp/'s identity is "4chan posters who are interested in weeb shit". Its community should be "4chan posters who talk about weeb shit".
>>471304
>moot is on the record as not liking general threads
I want to skip to here so I can say: Moot didn't know what the fuck he wanted and that's why he doesn't run the site any more. If he wanted an old /b/, he should have made a NSFW anime/random instead of whining about hot glue on fig threads. If he hated generals he should have done something about it instead of making /vg/. He made /jp/ to dump a bunch of shit into it, but a lot of older posters went there too and so yes, it became like old /b/ because it was full of old posters. Doesn't mean it was on topic though. Since this is a tangent too, I'm going to further say, there's nothing _inherently_ wrong with continued discussion of a popular topic. Only when it goes off its topic and becomes an "identity" and "community."
>>471351
You're right that people who only browse one board are intensely irritating.
It's been a while since I saw a meta thread on /jp/ asking "what other boards do you browse?"
>>471337
Someone should make a similar pic about /tv/ and the Star wars spam thht happened a few months ago.
80-90 threads at the same time just about Star wars.
>>471366
Code geass tier events are rare and not a problem. It is the natural way the site runs and the only reason it probably became a problem on /tv/ is because generalfags and idiots were constantly bitching about it so trolls picked it up and kept going after all the hype and interest died.
>>471314
>I imagine moot's idea with the whole "condense your thread" thing was to have a proto /vg/ where people just made singular threads about whatever tangential /a/ topics instead of doing the right thing and making a board for each.
He said it because people kept whining at him to do something because X threads were overrunning the board (for example, 100 Touhou threads). Nowhere is it suggested that he wanted one thread per overarching topic. As I've said, he's on the record as not liking generals (not sure if you addressed this later or if it was someone else.)
>>471314
>This is because they become /r9k/ shit. It's a bad idea to promote /r9k/ shit(rather the shit that ruined /r9k/).
Pointing at the scorched earth worst-case hellhole that a policy can lead to is not a blanket strike against the policy. Adding NEET threads to the rules did a better job of exterminating them from /jp/ than anything else.
>it's not funny the next literally 2900 times you post it as the op of a thread.
If you post it 2900 times it can qualify as spam, but that has its own rule.
>It's just a matter of culture, not quality.
Okay, sure? But there seem to be a lot of people who are deeply convinced that /jp/'s brand of shit smells better.
>You mean "Why don't people talk about X" "X is old and busted." Thread dies.
People still talk about old Touhou games and Ryukishi07's work from time to time. Everything more than a year old is old and busted but sometimes you have enough people to support a discussion anyway and sometimes you don't.
>How is flanfly not?
The "persistent identity" and "topic monopoly" criteria I specified are both necessary, in book, for something to be a general thread.
>>471314 (cont from >>471396)
>Would you like a seperate thread every time an idol group gets a new member or releases a new song?
I wouldn't mind, but ideally only if other "threads" behaved in the same way, so that /jp/ continued to have a diversity of topics represented. If only the idols did it the board would start to look rather lopsided.
>Each flan thread is exactly the same.
Well, yes. I would like to point out that this was not technically true at the start, but then people started treating it... like a general, I guess, and it got beaten into the ground. Sometime around 2011.
>>471335
>Arguably, they shouldn't exist then. Pointless threads are what?
Why does there need to be a carefully articulable point to a thread? Discussion does not need to flow exactly in a way as dictated by the OP.
I had meant to address the point in >>471226 much earlier but I got sidetracked by other issues, so i'll do it more carefully in the next post.
>>471298
>Using the word "shitposting" to label it all associates it purely with the people who were out to destroy a board.
(1) Just because they aren't out to destroy a board doesn't mean they aren't destroying it.
I'm sure /v/ would love /jp/ to be more like /v/ and think they were doing good, but they would probably also complain once it was just like /v/.
>It's been a long time since someone organized a legitimate raid campaign on the board.
No, not a raid, I mean the monstergirl and idol threads are only there because mods protected them. If not for that, /jp/ itself would excise them. Maybe they're too complacent to nowadays though.
>Most of the threads you're looking at didn't exist to annoy people.
See (1).
>Saten threads
Yes they did wtf. Why the fuck would they be posting them in binary and shit if not to keep spamming and annoying people? Is that really what fun is to some people? Almost every repeated image spam is malicious. It's not like the daily threads.
It's like saying Cornelia or her ancestors weren't malicious because they were funny.
>>471300
>This wasn't always the case.
That's because /jp/ was small. You can't have "a community that grows" and keep it one close knit group of friends.
>It's not even clear if "/jp/ in general" exists anymore.
See above.
>but that hasn't been the case for years.
>years
/jp/ isn't the problem, I hope you understand.
>>471311
Why should anyone care one particular person beat IN? Why should it get posts and not fall off the board and frustrate the OP?
>The generals actually do monopolise discussion
Most of the generals have rather narrow topics.
>>471337
>Pic
/vg/ & /a/ problems.
>A board is a bunch of different people being forced interacting with each other,
No it's not. People are free to pick and choose what threads they do or do not interact with. If they happen to choose exclusively iM@S character threads, the poster may never interact with Touhou fans.
>>471226
>And to define shitposting: Shitposting is a purposeless post. Not even to troll or normal spam post or anything, just a post for the sake of posting, like those threads with some shitty song's lyrics in the OP.
I strenuously object to this definition of shitposting. We have a definition of it as provided in the FAQ with which I am inclined to agree. If somebody posts a picture of Chihaya and a bunch of lyrics, it's presumably because he associates Chihaya in some way with the contents of the song. He wanted to post it. Other people might want to contribute with... I don't know, other idols and other lyrics? Trying to dictate what has "purpose" and what doesn't is fascist behavior. People are all searching for purpose in their own miserable lives and some people find them in places that you don't.
Unless he's doing it for the express purpose of annoying people or shitting up the board, you are free to call it as low-quality and pointless as you want, but shitposting is another animal entirely.
>If you made a thread that said something like "post Otaku Culture" and filled it with pictures of parrots cooking and dogs jumping, I wouldn't call that a shitpost, but the threads on their own are at least spam.
That thread would be far fucking worse. The notion that you need a prompt from OP to be able to discuss things is ludicrously confining.
This was a response to someone else, but I want to add something to it anyway outside the context of "real creative work" in particular -
>Create what content? You play the game, you talk about the game.
Secondary work encompasses a lot of things, from complete fangames to dumb memes. At the very beginning, all the dumb memes (associated with the topic) that got spawned in these threads were posts that made people laugh.
>>471405
>/vg/ & /a/ problems.
That is every general on every board, mate.
>No it's not. People are free to pick and choose what threads they do or do not interact with.
Yes it is. That is always what it has been. Generals set it up so that you aren't very likely to see x groups ever, even if you leave your thread. Without generals you are incredibly likely to see every single party in every single thread. Deal with it, generals are cancer and have never contributed anything good to the site.
>>471405
>I'm sure /v/ would love /jp/ to be more like /v/ and think they were doing good, but they would probably also complain once it was just like /v/.
Most of /v/ is vaguely aware that /v/ is shit. It's not a hivemind anyway.
>Maybe they're too complacent to nowadays though.
Nobody has actually tried to fight the staff in ages.
>See (1).
If you want to argue that they're destroying /jp/, then argue that they're destroying /jp/. Don't just label it shitposting and expect the argument to carry itself out from there.
>Yes they did wtf. Why the fuck would they be posting them in binary and shit if not to keep spamming and annoying people?
I actually forgot about that part; at the part where it started being used to antagonize other people, yes, that would probably qualify as shitposting. The most charitable interpretation was that they were simply trying to dodge the staff. At the beginning it was just who wanted to talk about Saten.
>That's because /jp/ was small. You can't have "a community that grows" and keep it one close knit group of friends.
/jp/ is smaller than it ever was before. Set aside the newly imported colossal flagship generals that are KCG and MGG and the post rate is at some of the lowest in history.
>>471405
>Why should anyone care one particular person beat IN? Why should it get posts and not fall off the board and frustrate the OP?
It creates an opportunity discussion for IN discussion by new and old players alike, in a way far more natural than having someone post a picture from Imperishable Night and saying "Let's discuss Imperishable Night." A thread is what you make of it.
>Most of the generals have rather narrow topics.
They monopolize all discussion related to their topics. And even if each bucket is not that large we have a lot of buckets. Really, we have a bucket for everything besides Touhou Project.
>If they happen to choose exclusively iM@S character threads, the poster may never interact with Touhou fans.
It's a difference in default behavior. When everything is just kind of rolling around on the front page, you have to go out of your way to avoid something since the exposure to it is semi-constant. The general thread model has the reverse expectation - you have to go out of your way to meet other people and the vast majority of people mostly just sit in your general (bonus points because going into some other general often has the barrier of entry I mentioned earlier and haven't gotten around to responding to yet).
>>471396
>Nowhere is it suggested that he wanted one thread per overarching topic.
/jp/ isn't like that.
>If you post it 2900 times it can qualify as spam, but that has its own rule.
I meant that as a loose calculation of the amount of times flanfly has been posted, that is, nearly every day since ever. It sounds like lot, doesn't it? And that's just assuming it was posted only once a day.
>/jp/'s brand of shit smells better.
I mean /v/ is like one of the worst boards. /jp/ now is in no way as bad a state as /v/.
Flanfly isn't a general solely because you don't number the threads? It even has the bad habit of generalfags rushing to create the next thread, resulting in like 3 flanfly threads. I suppose it's more of a get spam thread though.
>Why does there need to be a carefully articulable point to a thread? Discussion does not need to flow exactly in a way as dictated by the OP.
/b/ecause random threads with random discussions are random.
>>471408
>If somebody posts a picture of Chihaya and a bunch of lyrics, it's presumably because he associates Chihaya in some way with the contents of the song
They associate Chihaya with lots and lots of songs then. Also the thread contributes nothing, expects no posts, and has no purpose. Go make a Chihaya thread and post it there. Or make a songs-that-fit-iM@S-girls thread.
>Other people might want to contribute with... I don't know, other idols and other lyrics?
Yeah, no. Maybe if it had something like that in the subject.
>>471409
No it's not. /jp/ is slow and has lots of room. There are like 10 idol generals(some kind monopoly on a topic there, eh?) and non of them have to constantly bump and fight for space. /vg/ and /a/ move so quickly that the posters are used to spamming just to keep their thread from dying 10 posts in, so it quickly turns to shit just for the purpose of saving the thread. /jp/'s version of that are the people who bump their 5 person thread like every day or 2 to save it.
>>471429
Yes it is. Just because it is slow it doesn't suddenly mean it avoids the problems of generals. Those problems sure as fuck don't stem from board speed and they never have. The only one that does is pointless necrobumping. Generals conflict with the very nature of the site which is why they always become the biggest cancer pots of the site. Generals are something done by people new to the site who have refused to lurk and adapt to the site.
>>471429
>/jp/ isn't like that.
We have one denpa thread. We only ever have one denpa thread, and for the foreseeable future, we will continue to have one denpa thread. And you pointed out why yourself: if someone makes another thread,
>It'd just be someone asking some questions, getting a couple replies and the thread sinking.
I'm not even making a value judgment on this one. It's an observation. /jp/ is, in fact, like that.
>I meant that as a loose calculation of the amount of times flanfly has been posted, that is, nearly every day since ever. It sounds like lot, doesn't it? And that's just assuming it was posted only once a day.
While daily doses are spam, I don't actually really care about their impact on /jp/. It's mostly because there's only ever one up at a time; in practice the only thing they really do is occupy 1/165 spots on the board. This reduces the content available to /jp/ but in practice it doesn't do so by very much. When I think of spam I think of something that is actively pushing a large number of threads off the board, or making discussion in a thread difficult or impossible.
That said, I'm not going to pick the flanfly hill to die on, since in my assessment that got shit a long time ago.
>Flanfly isn't a general solely because you don't number the threads
If you want to consider daily doses general thread, I guess you could based on their recurring nature, but in for my part in /jp/ I care more about the aspect where it creates a discussion on monopoly and stifles the creation of other threads. If you're like >>471430 who thinks generals are just spawning pits of cancer (and in some places they are) then I guess Flanfly might fall into that category. But again, it's not the problem I'm personally worried about because I don't think anyone has ever stopped themselves from making a thread because they could have used Flanfly instead.
(cont.)
>>471429 (cont from >>471431)
>/b/ecause random threads with random discussions are random.
Namedropping garbage boards does not actually improve your argument in some way. And for that matter, /b/ literally has no topic or theme. A "random Chihaya thread" is still different from "a random random thread, go fucking nuts and post whatever you want." People generally accept that posts should have some connection to the OP.
>They associate Chihaya with lots and lots of songs then.
Chihaya is a person. Well, I guess you could argue plausibly that Chihaya is not a person, but treating her like one for the time being, most people have more than one song in their lives.
>Also the thread contributes nothing,
Subjective assessment.
>expects no posts,
I think most people want replies to their threads. Hope springs eternal. Although one reason they get no posts is because I think the janitor cans them whenever he sees them.
>and has no purpose.
Trying to dictate what has "purpose" and what doesn't is fascist behavior. People are all searching for purpose in their own miserable lives and some people find them in places that you don't.
>Yeah, no. Maybe if it had something like that in the subject.
Nobody needs to tell you what to do for you to post about something. If you open a thread in /a/ with a picture of, I dunno, Misaka and some inane comment or stupid joke, people are probably going to post pictures of and discuss Misaka. People are perfectly capable of doing things without explicitly following orders.
>>471429
I wanted to say more about this for a while but I've forgotten most of it by now.
In general, no pun intended, /jp/ generals are a bit different because
1. /jp/ is kind of a small board. If everything was generals, there would only be like 5-7 pages of content. People would be able to continue posting slowly instead of needing to furiously spam all the time. Look at the /jp/ generals vs the monster girl one.
http://boards.4chan.org/jp/archive
The only ones that are comparable in post rate are the AKB(the most popular idols) and KanColle(/vg/ expats) and even those are only half the post count. The others are like 1/4th the monstergirl thread at best. They only get a little over their post limits and then die. This is because they aren't pressured to spam and shitpost all the time just to save their thread.
2.(a) There are different types of generals, the ones that are about general things and the ones that are actually about specific things. In general, stuff like generals for, say, iM@S would cover the games, anime, mobile games, and characters. Generals for other things from /a/ are similar. The monstergirl thread is about the concept of monstergirls in general. Then there are threads about specific series, which makes sense for /vg/ because game series tend to be ongoing, but on /a/ series tend to either be one season on a single contained work over multiple seasons. That is, it'd be about Bleach and not about shounen fighting in general. There are of course single games threads too, like MMORPGs and popular game of the months that haven't become series.
(b)In /jp/ though, it's a bit different because you either have really narrow topics or somewhat narrow topics. Dolls is a narrow fucking topic. There is nothing to be said outside of the thread unless you just want to post pics of your doll. Kig is a narrow(and /cgl) topic. Denpa is a narrow topic. You can still post denpa in Japanese music threads, vocaloid threads, touhou music threads...
>>471429
>/b/ecause random threads with random discussions are random.
Welcome to fucking 4chan, go back to whatever shithole forum you came from. OP is a conversation starter, not a topic setter and that is the way it has always been. Every board is meant to have the threads as a random flow, just like a normal conversation, forumshitter.
>>471440
...or whatever threads. You can make a thread for a specific song too.
In the case of idol threads, first, /jp/ historically hated talking about idols or any real people, so they were forced into their threads. They're neither going to leave nor be accepted to make random threads about random women. Even then, they don't even want to be an "idol general." There's no one place to go to discuss idols or get into idol music. There are ones about large groups, there are ones about sub groups. And the thing is, there's not a context under which you could break them up. You can make a thread about a subgroup of a group but just make a thread about a particular member is silly. There's also no reason to lump them all together, so they exist as a bunch of seperate group specific threads that are called generals.
(c) Also in /jp/ topics aren't just narrow in scope, but in media. Excluding the old Cooking Idol threads, and I guess AKB, there aren't anime and manga and games and so on for these things. The idol threads are about the idols on tv and concerts. Doll threads are just about dolls and not about doll anime and so on. Tea threads are just about tea. They're too narrow to bother splitting up. With /a/, you could talk about a particular season or work within the topic, but /jp/ doesn't really have native generals that have broad overarching topics. With Vocaloids being MAYBE an exception.
3. Content doesn't run out either. /a/ is about anime and manga. When those are over, usually in like 13 weeks for anime, you're left with nothing new to discuss. On /vg/, game of the month old and busted? Nothing new to discuss. Series hasn't had a new entry in years? /a/ and /vg/ continue to talk about them forever. However,
*There isn't a single topic on /jp/ that has a general that doesn't still get new content.*
There will always be new idols, new songs, new dolls, new vocaloid works, new kusoge, new wax vaginas.
And when there aren't, the threads will disappear.
>>471456
Lurk moar.
>>471456
Now this is shitposting.
>>471423
>When everything is just kind of rolling around on the front page, you have to go out of your way to avoid something since the exposure to it is semi-constant.
Catalog, post filter, thread hiding, thread watcher. I don't see anything I don't want to, nor do I care about what's on page 1.
All these arguments sort of sound like people wanting to shove their shit in each others' faces. But you can ignore that, it doesn't matter if it is or isn't, because I can tell you I don't even hide the vocaloid thread, but because I don't care about it, I gloss right over it without even seeing anything about it. If there were 5 vocaloid threads, I'd stop looking at them the moment I identified the character in the OP. And I'd probably ignore it if I didn't know them anyway, since I only know like three vocaloids. I don't interact with anyone in threads I don't care about, general or not, and I doubt every poster would be in every thread if there weren't any generals.
>>471473
>Catalog, post filter, thread hiding, thread watcher. I don't see anything I don't want to, nor do I care about what's on page 1.
Cancer features.
Also, it sounds very much like you never used old 4chan.
>>471473
>Catalog, post filter, thread hiding, thread watcher. I don't see anything I don't want to, nor do I care about what's on page 1.
It sounds like you very much had to go out of your way to deliberately avoid seeing any Vocaloids or Vocaloid-related media.
>I doubt every poster would be in every thread if there weren't any generals.
As I said, it's a matter of default response.
I happen to think your attitude is completely anathema to what 4chan is and should be.
>>471474
No, I've been here forever since dumb shit like this was hot, but that doesn't mean I won't make use of features. All I did was go back to threads in my history or leave them open before anyway.
>Cancer features.
You have 4chanx installed right now.
>>471477
Whatever.
>>471482
>I've been here forever since dumb shit like this was hot,
Doubt it.
>you are using any extension
Fucking prove it. I actually like vanilla 4chan.
>>471482
>Whatever.
What about old 4chan did you even like? Your ideal 4chan seems to be one composed of nothing but individual rolling topic threads.
>>471487
4chan was never good
I liked how it wasn't full of faggots. Then it gradually started filling up full of faggots. Now it's full of faggots.
Honestly, I've just been running since like 2006. First to /a/, then to /jp/, then I stopped running. Before then I hung out in /b/ and /d/, although I browsed the other boards considerably more then. After 2006, I basically didn't go anywhere but /a/ and /v/. After /jp/ was made I basically gave up on the site outside of it, although I still tolerated /a/ until 2012.
I don't care about this site, the internet, or anything anymore. I want /jp/ to stay ~decent~ and not be shit like the rest of the site. There are a million other boards people can spam on and play in shit. There are boards literally for socializing if you want friends and a community like some normalfag. I want to take it easy and not have to wade through unfunny spam to get to my idolbutts. I don't want to be greeted with
>still playing Touhou
>2016
or
>you will never be captured, dragged down to the depths of the sea, and tentacle raped forever by a giant squid girl
or
"OH GOD I HATE THE MOD SO MUCH LOOK AT THIS PICTURE OF AN UGLY THING IT IS THE MOD"
or
"Remember when /jp/ was good? I'm such a NEET hikki during summer break"
or
"KOUME! It's eight of clock!"
or
Hey guys, check out this cp(although I might make a clownpiece thread like this later if it doesn't get me permab& just trying to submit the post)
or
any other sort of dumb shit whenever I click my /jp/ bookmark, bypassing the front page of the site.
My idea 4chan is one where idiots don't come here thinking it's supposed to be a troll factory where idiots leak piss on one another all day. And yes, I was angry even back since the habbo shit. It's like this site was built to attract edgy dumbass kids. Now they think the latest hot fad is forcing dumb "memes" that aren't even jokes or even up to the low par of what used to pass for quality humor.(that is, worse than shitty image macros.)
Literally nobody is stopping you from making a non-general thread.
If the users don't want to talk about your specific subject in your specific thread, nobody is going to force them to. Maybe your thread should have been more interesting.
>>471440
> and KanColle(/vg/ expats)
Actually I gotta stop you here for a moment.
The KANcOLLE threads are /a/ expats that refuse to go to /vg/ because of the /vg/ boogeyman. Like there are people that actively browse /vg/ as a board like /v/ or /a/ and not their specific threads of interest. Its just not a thing.
You can go and ask in any thread on /vg/ if you know what other games people talk about on /vg/ and you'll get "Uhhh.. starcraft, fighting games.. I think katawa shoujo is still going, what are they up to like 5000 threads now? ha ha" and that's basically it unless you have other people in there who also specifically share an interest in another video game (Gasp! More than one interest!)
>>471515
Except generalfags raiding your thread turning it into their general, non-/generalfags shitposting your thread redirected you to their thread or the fact that anything that has a general people generally avoid threads for that topic always as it becomes tainted.
>>471518
Oh no muh rolling content "conversation starter not a topic setter" people are talking about other things related to my topic now
So blame the community you thought you liked so much. They'd rather discuss things with other people than talk about a specific thing in your dead thread.
>>471519
Nice shitpost.
>>471376
Only one general is allowed on /tv/ (doctor who). You general-haters would love /tv/, it's probably just the way you want a board to be.
>>471456
Oh fuck off. 4chan is not a forum. If you want that, go find Reddit, Kotaku, or Mal. I'm here because this is way more dynamic than a forum. It's closer to real conversation, but with images.
>>471017
I don't know how to break this to you, but the people who post on /vg/ really like generals.
>>471405
>Why should anyone care one particular person beat IN?
More unique, spontaneous, and varied discussion.
>Why should it get posts and not fall off the board and frustrate the OP?
Nothing wrong with that either.
>Most of the generals have rather narrow topics.
No, they're actually quite general, rather than narrow.
>>472021
So how would you have handled the Star Wars-issue on /tv/?
20-30 threads at the same time just about Star wars was normal from the summer to december when the movie finally came out. For a couple of weeks there were 80-90 threads at the same time just about Star wars.
No general at all.
>>472040
Nothing, just like nothing was done about code geass. In-fact, moot even embraced code geass himself. Star Wars had an equal amount of hype as it, even if it was artificial as fuck. On 4chan, anything with hype with get an equal amount of threads and shitposting and there is nothing wrong with that. It is the way the SITE MEANT TO BE RAN. Only newfags and people don't like the site and want to change everything about it thinks that sort of shit actually needs to be controlled.
Deal with it retard. Stop trying to change 4chan into something it isn't.
>>471474
Reminds me, there are people who actually don't disable the native extension. I don't know how stupid someone would have to be to actually enjoy javascript.
>>471789
>4chan is not a forum.
Well.. no. By textbook definition, it is indeed a "forum."
It's one that uses an unconventional layout/form from the usual stuff, but a forum none the less.
>>472326
Don't reply seriously to the cancer tripfag.
>>472326
I remember when world4ch was a thing.
The culture of this place makes it different from all other forums in the world.
>>472044
>shitposting
>It is the way the SITE MEANT TO BE RAN
It's time to stop posting. There's a limit to what's fair to other people, and the examples like the Star Wars threads were out of hand for a while.
If you start embracing shitposting and trolling too much, then people will start coming here only for those things. What you claim 4chan is about is exactly why /v/, /pol/, and /tv/ is so bad.
>>472533
Posting dozens of threads for a single topic isn't shitposting, you fucking outsider. Fuck off. /v/, /pol/ and /tv/ are bad for completely different fucking reasons.
>>472911
Feel free to elaborate why 300 threads of
>MFW TOPIC
>MEME ABOUT TOPIC
>DRAKE IMAGE ABOUT NOT WANTING TOPIC
>2016 >STILL TOPIC
>ISHYGDDT
isn't the reason why those boards are bad
>>473071
See, you aren't even trying to fucking hide the fact you are retarded. None of those have ANYTHING to do with the natural way to use the thread system and everything to do with shitposting. Those boards are bad because of shitposting, not because of people using the thread system correctly. Why are you strawmanning to try and defend your cancer generals? There isn't anything wrong with 20 fucking threads made to talk about fucking, idk, fucking Phantom World or Bokudake. There isn't anything wrong with half the board becoming fucking code geass or star wars when the shit was /just/ fucking released and has an insane amount of interest and hype behind it. This is how the site always fucking ran and people fucking loved it and there never anything wrong with it until people who refused to adapt to the site came and cancered the place up trying to contain and compress everything with shit like generals.
If you don't like the chaos and the fact everything isn't neat and organised, fuck off back to whatever shithole site you came from. Lurk moar.
>implying I'm going to read all of this shit
generals are cancer, /jp/ has been shit since ~2010-2011 and you're all fucking autistic faggots with too much time on your hands.
>>473211
Nobody cares what some crossboarder namefag thinks. You're 100% irrelevant.
>>473207
>cherry picking
You missed
>On 4chan, anything with hype with get an equal amount of threads and shitposting
All of it retard. Good job missing the point and just going 'haha what a retard he is defending shitposting'.
>>473223
>he is defending shitposting
But that's the base of what he's doing.
>Boards are supposed to be shitposting, it's good because that's how 4chan is supposed to be run.
>/v/, /pol/, and /tv/ are bad because of shitposting."
>>473233
>>Boards are supposed to be shitposting, it's good because that's how 4chan is supposed to be run.
This was never said or implied. Now you truly are grasping for straws. Learn to read and dissect a post instead of just going 'he said shitposting he IS DEFENDING IT'. Regardless of the general opinion of it and the fact it is against the rules, 4chan is made to sit in the middle between shitposting and seriousness. Shitposting IS one of the most natural things to occur on the site if you want to be a dick about this to defend your cancer generals. Yes, shitposting is natural to the site and has been here since day fucking one. It was just either called flaming or trolling back then. Trolls trolling trolls trolling trolls. Doesn't mean it is a good thing or should be allowed, but it IS natural to the site and is going to be here forever whether you like it or not. Would you like to keep grasping at straws?
Shit attempt at derailment, because the simple fact is generals are cancer and there is still nothing wrong with a few dozen threads for a single topic.
>>473238
>sit in the middle between shitposting and seriousness
And many times the shitposting is taken too far. Star Wars was completely over hyped, and hardly contained at times. They should have toned it down a little. That's not saying everything should be contained to a general (I can see how generals can be and often are a problem.), but there should have been more thread deletions (not necessarily bans) during the worst points. Like the week before and after release.
>>473267
There is no reason to ever contain anything. That is the fucking worst thing you can ever do and it only makes the problem worse. You just let the sail smooth while slowly trimming it until it has calmed down. For the week before and after 1 - 2 weeks after release, I can agree that is when it is starting to became a negative thing and is just anons trying to bait anons.
>>473271
You mention sails, yet fail mention to mentioned that a good set of sails are always on a well maintained boat/ship. 4chan is the ship, the internet is the sea, Hiro the captain, and the sails are the boards and discussion within 4chan. Maintain the ship poorly, and things aren't going to go too well. The worse the state of disrepair is, the more difficult and time consuming it is to make it (relatively) comfortably seaworthy again. I don't expect this ship to be perfectly run, because that isn't realistic, but when there's noticeable damage to the sails (Star Wars spam and other large, long term, and well known things.), then at least some basic level of maintenance should be done.
>>473238
Shitposting isn't flaming or trolling. It's just spam.
>>473399
No anon, before it was called shitposting, it was either all called trolling or flaming.
>>473400
to troll or flame you have to do something to set people off. How is posting a picture of a cat paw trolling?
>>475069
How is posting a cat paw shitposting?
>>475076
Because cats are a shitty animal.
>>475079
Fuck you.
>>469641
>Just look at all the Touhou nonsense at any given time.
/jp/ was made specifically to contain Touhou nonsense. "Otaku Culture" was just a catch-all for "not anime/manga."
My primary reason for browsing /jp/ is the Touhou nonsense, but I can agree with moving /d/ content to trash.
>>470013
>/trash/ should be more random and less ALL FURRIES ALL THE TIME.
It shouldn't be anything. It is literally a fucking trash bin. Are you saying that there should be standards on the content which was already proven not to meet standards?
Its a hidden board, so you have to go out of your way to go to the literal trash heap of 4chan. Its almost like you are complaining that it is not the right kind of trash, that you need to have "random" trash.
Just get up from your keyboard and walk away, dude.
>>475081
>faggotery
>>471163
>The idol threads might as well be anonymous imageboards hosted on Hello!Online or Stage48.
http://tohno-chan.com/akb/
There is not enough traffic to support a single board for idols, but more than enough for several threads.
>>475086
I was only saying why some people might not like /jp/.
>>475095
Sorry, I misunderstood
>>475090
I like to pretend that board is in Japanese and I'm seeing it in English through the magic of a Babelfish.
>select all tea
Nice.
>>475090
Why is Tohno so dead?
>>475086
/trash/ shouldn't exist. When a thread needs to be deleted, it should be deleted. Not moved.
>>475103
>Why is Tohno so dead?
Its a niche of niche of /jp/ that is stretched across a board.
>>475244
In theory, it would shut up those people who whine and spam all the time one of their threads isn't liked/deleted. In practice, it only is really useful for /co/. Also furries shouldn't be allowed in /trash/ either.
Really though, if not deleting it or dumping it into trash(because if people wanted the thread to be on another board, they would have made it there to begin with), then mods should use that autosage feature more and make the thread unbumpable.
>>475295
I think it was actually started by /a/ refugees back in the day.
>>475472
I didn't believe you, but you are correct.
http://pastebin.com/0yfURFLn
Another quality /jp/ thread!
>>>/jp/14965997
>>475549
Another quality /jp/ complaint about /jp/ topics being moved to /jp/
>>475562
That's an /a/ complaint about a /jp/ topic being moved to /jp/ and not allowed to stay on /a/ despite belonging on /jp/. There is slightly more nuance to it than you have posted.
>>475600
Theres too many layers of irony here, man, I get lost sometimes.
>>475602
While keeping up with the Jones may seem impossible, keeping up with the autists really is impossible. They're like electrons: the closer you understand one aspect the less another makes sense.
>>475456
Oh damn, you're right.
I forgot about the time period in which autosage was used a lot.
I remember the rustled jimmies felt when you realised you were posting in an autosaged thread: but at least it wasn't all that bad.
>>475562
/a/ topics never get moved to /a/, why shouldn't one complain abou t/jp/ topics being moved to /jp/? Delete them same as an /a/ topic on /jp/ would.
What's worse is the small string of moderation over the board that happens as the mod tries to defend their bad choice and pretend /jp/ is well moderated before /jp/ goes back to taking hours for something to get deleted.
>>477544
if you think /jp/ is badly moderated now you should have seen it before
>>477548
I've seen it the entire time. Honestly that one who deleted all the pages of /jp/ at once did nothing wrong.
>>477550
Good old days.
>>477574
>15 pages
Why don't we still have that?
>>477616
Because we only had 10 threads per page back then with 15 pages.
Now we have 15 threads per page and 10 pages.
>>477548
At least it was consistently bad last time. Now you see perfectly on-topic posts being deleted all the time.
It's only happened in threads talking about anything other than 2hu, though.
>>477642
What's with kancolle related threads being deleted? I get a lot of them are made by a career shitposter, but it seems like any thread that's recognizable as a kancolle character gets deleted. Other browser games and mobile phone shit is allowed, so I don't get why it's deletable. The general for it doesn't get deleted either, so there has to be something else going on.
Is it the opposite and the characters aren't recognizable enough?
>>477660
Pretty safe to assume its that one spammer. Go make one yourself and see.
>>477660
I can't tell if the Kancolle-friend actually wants Kancolle threads to take off on /jp/, or if he just wants make dumb template threads until everyone gets annoyed with them.
I don't know they're targeting him in particular or they're just blowing up everything that looks like he might have made it.
>>477665
>I can't tell if the Kancolle-friend actually wants Kancolle threads to take off on /jp/, or if he just wants make dumb template threads until everyone gets annoyed with them.
If he's the same one who would keep making duplicate generals and then "complaining" when they were deleted, the maybe the latter.
>>477660
>>477665
>>477673
>Kancolle
>small c
aside, maybe the spammer has convinced a mod or janitor on /jp/ that any KanColle thread outside of the general is made by him, and must be deleted on sight.
Last I heard he's changed his tactics to bumping 2hu threads once a general thread hits bump limit, so it gets archived faster.
