>Infallible and omnipotent God
>Can't create a system of free will that doesn't lead to a large number of his creations suffering eternal damnation
BRAVO GOD
Gods a cunt.
More news at eleven (11).
>>80955286
>be 67 yo
>go to church every sunday, prey
>go to confession all is good
>fap one time after confession
>suddenly hearth attack
>die and go to hell for masturbation and lewd tohughts
>be in the same place as child molesters, cannibals and murderes go to.
bravo god.
>>80955856
>The Bible is the literal word of God
>It contains four conflicting versions of the same events
BRAVO GOD, BRAVO
>be all-powerful
>can make an object even i can't move
>try to push object
>logic collapses
lel
>omnipotent all knowing a God
>created flawed creatures
>doesn't realize they're flawed until they eat an apple
>punishes them for his own mistake
>continues doing this for thousands of years
>tries to wipe out humanity completely and fails
>keeps sending confusing mixed messages that often contradict each other to goat fuckers
>disregards China even though they're centuries ahead of the rest of the world and can actually read and write
>>80955382
>>80955856
>>80956040
>>80956049
>>80956094
>God made life hard and we can't handle it. *tips fedora*
>>80956173
>God made life hard
Why did he do that? What a cunt.
>>80956173
>the concept of god is illogical
>the concept of god is so shit that it is self-refuting
Maybe if you weren't so self-hating you would realize this.
>>80956289
>>80956342
>Triggered
>>80956387
>arguments
>lel u mad
Vintage meme my friend.
>>80956387
>No refutation to the underlying argument
>Just memes and name calling
Seems about right
>>80956173
>be God
>invent self aware creatures
>torture them in the most inhumane ways
>tell them that they'll burn in hellfire if they masturbate
>>80956515
>>80956471
>Asks for evidence when religion is based on faith
>>80956575
So stop masturbating, faggot.
>>80955856
>know the consequences of an action
>do it anyway
>complain when the consequences you knew about actually happen
Not God's fault you are retarded.
Also why are you masturbating at 67? That's disgusting.
>>80955286
You have to choose to love him and follow his rules other wise you are simply not worthy of his love. This life is merely basic training to see if you are good and strong enough to receive his gifts. Like it, don't like it, doesn't matter you and I don't make the rules we merely choose whether to follow them or not.
>>80956592
I'm not asking for evidence, I'm simply stating that the Bible frequently contradicts itself.
Good doesn't work in mysterious ways. He's clearly a sadistic pervert
>>80956601
theres no justification for making any consequences for 80% of action that are considered sin. THeres no justification for sending even the worst human being to ETERNAL PAIN. god is a tyrant.
>>80956749
To you it does. If you're referring to the gospels, it shows that each book was written by a different author with a different point of view, and the authors didn't collude.
It's why each witness at a crime scene has a slightly different report. Doesn't mean the crime didn't happen, means different view points.
>>80956837
>I know better than God
Okay poland.
for people that don't believe in god you sure do like to talk about him a lot
>>80956837
Argue that with your creator not his creation.
If everyone is predetermined according to "god's plan" then it doesn't matter what I do. It's already decided if I go to heaven or hell.
>be omnipotent
>everybody in this thread is a permavirgin and will remain like that
BRAVO
>>80956592
When did I ask for evidence.
I merely stated a priori argument against an omnipotent god that shows the concept itself is self-refuting.
Christfags can't actually be this bad, can they?
>>80957100
Good thing that's clearly not the case by a rudimentary reading of the bible.
Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called children of God.
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
>>80956643
If the majority of people go to hell, God was wrong. Life is a bet between god and the devil, god says we will be inherently good with free will, Satan says no.
So far, Im better than at least 70% of the people out there, so either I go to heaven for being outraged at the jews, or these evil jews are actually still in gods favor while they worship a different god, which makes no sense, or the jews go to hell and I get saved, or god was wrong.
If you read the bible, you find out the jews are actually a special chosen people who get to spit in gods face but are still above you, and even as they rape boys in the ass, you should support them raping christian boys in the ass and drinking their blood.
So either the bible isnt being taught right, or I dont want any part of that blood drinking sex slave having alternate god worshipping religion that allows the jews to be praised and the goyim to be their slaves.
Either god condemns modern Israel, or he just plain doesnt exist. I cant find it out, but I know Im better than the vast majority of the scum who walk all over everyone day in day out, and who cheat on their husband/wife or who murder, and steal, and beat and lie and cheat etc etc.
>If theres a heaven, I should objectively go there while not even being close to perfect, or else the majority of people wont be going there either, and then god was wrong and Satan was right.
Either god is right, or he doesnt exist. Thats how it works.
>>80957100
You make that choice not god. The actions of your life determine whether you are worthy of heaven or eternal removal from gods sight.
fucking reddit should fuck off.
>>80955856
>>go to church every sunday, prey
I had a good laugh, thanks Poland
>>80957206
Haaaaah. That picture.
I'm taking that picture. It is mine now.
>>80957206
i heard that somewhere in the Bible it says that the jews will be the LAST in heaven.
>>80957206
He condemns each man based on his deeds not the whole group. You are what you do.
>>80957068
I'd love to, but he seems to only exist in the minds of delusional man-children.
>>80957189
they will literally defend their delusions to the death because most of them were indoctrinated before they reached the age of reason.
>God is some being so beyond our understanding that even seeing a small tiny speck of his reality would tear all of ours into nothing
>but some fat bearded fedora wearing fuck who watches anime and pisses in bottles while living on a flying dirt heap has it all figured out because he skimmed three chapters of a book written by a dead German faggot
>>80957204
gotta love the platitudes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2V5ZWVUpn8
>all these fedora fags taking things out of context and completely missing points
>"listen to me, i know better than God, because i say so"
another good day watching you fags argue
What's the point of the bible if you can just pick and choose the parts you like and ignore the ones you don't?
>>80957519
>Muh anime character is so powerful he cracks the universe
If God knows everything why does he wait for you to sin? Why doesn't he just send you where he already knows you're going?
>>80957416
You are free to believe what you will. Those without faith cannot understand because they do not understand faith. People who argue against god are like spoiled children lashing out against their fathers rules. Just because you don't like it or believe it changes nothing.
>>80957620
spiritual security blanket.
>>80955286
What do expect from a god made by Jews? Started out as an excuse to genocide people like the Canaanites and steal their land.
>god made australia
wtf i hate trump now
>>80957666
You don't punish a child before he has done a thing and you don't throw him out of your home until you are sure he wont change for the better. There is a chance for redemption so long as there is life in your body.
>>80956049
>God was there before the beginning
>So when did God begin
>logic collapses
top jej religifags
>>80957675
>free will
>faith is special
>you're just mad
>I'm right because I'm right
I see you've run out of arguments.
>>80955286
Hey kids, STFU, you know nothing. I'm God and you are not.
>>80955286
>WHUAAAA WHY CAN'T GOD MAKE MY MORALS CHOICES FOR ME
fuck you
>>80957803
kek
>>80957206
Relax chief. Jesus condemned the Jew all the time.
Matthew 21:25-32
25 The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men? And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say unto us, Why did ye not then believe him?
26 But if we shall say, Of men; we fear the people; for all hold John as a prophet.
27 And they answered Jesus, and said, We cannot tell. And he said unto them, Neither tell I you by what authority I do these things.
28 But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.
29 He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.
30 And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.
31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.
32 For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.
Jews and God don't get along.
>>80955856
>Catholicism
>Christianity
>>80957206
Basically pulling from an argument that could take an hour to explain.
Also reminder there is no burning in a fiery pit, thats a trick. Hell is simply "being without the presence of god" which is supposed to be terrible, but its not constant pain.
Its pretty much debated and not agreed upon, and the side that seems right is also the side that seems to have less representation, so good luck forming a truth based consensus if they dont even have the majority.
Its always like that in life these days I guess. Majority opinion = reality amirite? Pic related. Cultural Marxism is behind that.
Anyways, god blessed Abraham, and his seed, along with saying to avoid long ancestral lines several times in the bible.. so theres a contradiction -
Either we are all the seed of Abraham, blessed with the blessing of the Israelites and told that the promise land is ours, or else no one is entitled to the promise land, and the jews broke their covenant, no longer being blessed, no longer deserving praise etc. and are actually cursed by god.
Or, you live in a world where nothing at all makes sense and not only do the jews kill the son of god when he comes as their savior, and say they are above god, and the talmud is the word of god (man made) and that god himself asks earthly rabbis for help with problems he cant figure out etc etc.. but god actually is okay with this, and for some reason they are still blessed, and you should still praise them, and help them, and you wont suffer gods wrath like in previous examples of when a king helped another kingdom which wasnt godly, or which was heretical. You suffer gods wrath for that, youre not supposed to bless the heretical and satan worshippers etc.
The whole thing is just so confused, probably because of the jews. They deny they even killed Christ at this point, didnt hang him, thats a bunch of Christian lies they say.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ei_Hu1hcsa4
According to this guy, all you need to do is believe.
>>80957812
But I'm not God, he knows everything and i don't. There's no comparison in your shit analogy. Isn't it a sin to compare humans to God?
>>80956094
Damn, we are really made from his image.
>>80957945
>Isn't it a sin to..
protip: everything is a sin.
>>80957941
Its hard to believe though, when I live my entire life based on objective truth, and not believing in things I cant prove.
It makes it hard to 100% believe when Im so confused by apparently conflicting sides, and one of them is purely vile, but supposedly the mainstream view.
>>80957189
> I merely stated a priori argument against an omnipotent god that shows the concept itself is self-refuting.
Where did you do that?
>>80957941
>complains about anti-semitism
>uses an avatar from a game made by an open anti-semite
>>80957382
Supposedly it says that only 6k jews are supposed to be left after gods done punishing them for turning away from him, and an army that only China could support at this point of ~200 million is supposed to be involved.
>>80958013
Look at the results of the belief.
Modern day marxism: Rampant degeneracy, cuckholdrly en masse, skyrocketing suicide rates
Christianity held firmly: Crusades, muslims get kicked in the teeth, Europe is homogenously white, whites become strongest race on earth.
Modern day: We're losing majorities in our own country. There are no standards.
Racism is now worse than pedophilia.
I want off this ride.
>>80957848
Not at all you simply refuse to accept any argument but your own. As to being mad I am not you cant get angry at someone for not knowing a thing. I cant make you believe and you cant shake my belief.
>>80957385
Now see Ive heard entirely different, that you wont be judged on your deeds if you believe, but you be judged on your deeds if you dont believe, or havent heard gods word.
I also dont mean Ive heard it from random idiots, the people I base my religious opinions on are people I would consider highly respectable for their knowledge, I dont happen to know much besides what Ive absorbed from the 2 sides.
>>80956040
>literal word of God
But that's wrong you Ahmed, the Bible was written by men, inspired by God. You're thinking of the Qur'an.
>>80956040
there are no conflicts. you would know this if you put your Cheetos down and pick up a kjv bible
>>80955286
the world is not perfect because of sin, and for that we are responsible for.
>>80956289
>>80956094
>>80956049
>>80955382
God exists and is still who he is regardless of your opinion you self centered dumbasses
>>80955286
He didn't make the system, he merely gave us the medium in which to craft it.
Nature's Law is self-evident if you take the time to consider Nature's God.
>>80955286
What do you want him to do? Create a system of free will where people can't have free will?
>>80956094
Islam actually has an answer to this, that every single nation on Earth from the beginning of time have been sent messengers and prophets to bring them to the right path, and the people who these messengers/prophets were sent to, all either firmly believed it, or some of them believed, or no one believed, and the Prophet died, but the ones who believed were on the path of righteousness, until later generations corrupted the religion, by taking other gods, or calling the prophets themselves as gods, or just forgetting the faith over time and generations
They believe Islam was the last such faith, and Muhammad was the last prophet, who's message was to the whole world, and that God promised that this faith would not vanish through corruption (until the end of times)
>>80958340
That's exactly what they want. That's why marxism exists.
They want to be ruled and owned, saved by some external force rather than doing the work on their own to make it happen.
god is a dick and He enjoys that, he is a bit like old /b/tard who faps to gore and problems of the world also there is no hell just reeducation course for at least 500k years for any fag that goes to hell.
>>80958190
I agree christianity offered a lot of awesome shit to society. But it's still hard to buy into though. i can't just believe something because I think it would be awesome if it were true. I'm not a liberal.
*tips fedora*
>>80958253
If you believe you are judged just like non believers are judged. In the end we will all be judged. But works without faith are dead.
>>80958013
Kikes are so fucking up their own asses.
>>80958293
>God exists and is still who he is regardless of your opinion you self centered dumbasses
ditto
>>80957216
this is not true. according to the bible we all commit sin and we all deserve punishment for the sins we commit. If we want to avoid that we need a savior and thats were Jesus Christ comes in. Jesus is God and he became flesh. He lived the perfect live and then he was crucified for our sins. All you need to do is to believe he paid for all your sins in the cross and that you are innocent through the blood of christ. No need for good "deeds" since we dont do any, no need to "repent of your sins". you dont need to do anything because that would undermine the sacrifice Jesus did in the cross
>Be child rapist/kill about to meet his death asked God forb forgiveness go's to heaven.Gg god
>>80958405
>America
;_;7
>>80958391
That's just gibberish mental gymnastics bro. Just like all religions. My favorite is when they try to claim the Q'uran is some kinds of brilliantly written miracle that has never been beaten. And yet I bet most Muslims haven't read more then a couple of books that aren't the Q'uran
And your an imbecile, enjoy limbo you'll have a lot to purge.
>>80955286
>Tell Moses he should not murder
>Tell him on the next day to plunder, rape and murder
>Tell Jews there will come a messiah one day
>Over 9000 people think they're the messiah
>Some epileptic has seizures in the desert
>Thinks god spoke to him
Abrahamic religions are a joke
>>80956601
It's called proportional punishment
>>80958013
I had a really big one of these with like 5x as much I think, but I dont know what I saved it under.
The whole thing is cancer.
>>80958613
>i wasnt sure whether raping a child was a sin or not so after i did it i asked for forgiveness just in case
>>80958391
I did read the first few chapters of the Quran.
It was very secular. Gave me the impression Islam isn't a religion so much as an earthly power, directly contradictory to God's statement:
15 Then went the Pharisees, and took counsel how they might entangle him in his talk.
16 And they sent out unto him their disciples with the Herodians, saying, Master, we know that thou art true, and teachest the way of God in truth, neither carest thou for any man: for thou regardest not the person of men.
17 Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not?
18 But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites?
19 Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.
20 And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?
21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.
22 When they had heard these words, they marvelled, and left him, and went their way.
I love Jesus. Literally unstumpable.
There is only one God.
>>80958871
Matthew Chapter 22, KJV bible.
>there are people in /pol/ right now
>RIGHT FUCKING NOW
>who claim to be European nationalists and proud of their heritage
>who believe in Christianity
>a shitskin religion that fucking
>THAT FUCKING
>took over Europe using fear tactics, pressure, and violence like Islam is doing today
wew lad, in 1500 years from now, European nationalists are going to be defending Islam as European heritage while being afraid of whatever new shitty fairy tale rises out of the middle-east.
Why haven't you swallowed Odinism, the greatest red pill of all, /pol/? Do you hate being white?
>>80958608
>No need for good "deeds" since we dont do any, no need to "repent of your sins". you dont need to do anything because that would undermine the sacrifice Jesus did in the cross
This is bullshit burger televangelist christianity. Accepting Christ involves showing him in your life i.e. you're a good generous person because you are following in His way. You can't just accept Jesus and still act like a degenerate. Also asking for forgiveness without repentance is non-Biblical.
>>80958608
Belief alone is not enough. One must believe and follow the law. So long as you try to do what is right and have faith you can be forgiven. However I do not claim to be the final voice on this if you require guidance I recommend speaking to a priest of your specific denomination.
Mat 7:22-23
Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'
>>80958920
I literally don't even know what odinism is. I just know the Crusades rekt a lot of muzzies, and is a based religion when modern pastors aren't hardcore cucking.
>>80958920
>Christianity is not part of our heritage
Leaf please
>>80958613
Is there any reason why an active murderer can't get into heaven, even if he believes in god?
Nobody better give me that "if he really believed he wouldn't kill anyone" horseshit either.
>We're all sinners, the commandments are made to be broken
>If you don't follow the commandments you don't really believe in God
Pick fucking one.
>>80959081
Look, bong. I know it must be hard to uncuck yourself. Brexit was a good step in the right direction, but no, symbolism from the middle-east is not your culture.
If your religion says you can have 12 wives and fuck little girls in heaven for eternity then your religion is probably a cult invented by a conman
>>80956094
>punishes them for his mistake
No, A&E were evicted before they could eat the fruit of the tree of life and become like him; this was after the first wife invoked His name as A was about to beat her to death and the woman proceeded to run amok as a newborn immortal in His heavenly kingdom AND well after His prime angel of angels refused to submit in obedience and reverence to His magnum opus and had persuaded an entire third of the Angel Hosts to strike alongside him. So, God demotes his XO to warden to oversee the hells, populated by every deific entity he had conquered in a bid to be the Monad, then gets an unwanted houseguest who turns out to not be ready for ascension, and then his masterpiece, already revised after taking notes on the whole Lilith incident, is meddeled with by either the demoted lucifer or a deposed godling, we aren't sure anymore, and may become Houseguest 2: Unplanned Immortal Boogaloo.
His reaction in quarantining us seems measured in all honesty.
>>80955286
he's just weeding out the undesirables, you'd do it too
>>80956289
git gud
>>80959204
>Interpreting God's will
What are you the pope?
>>80955856
For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
>>80959123
>The commandments are made to be broken
Wot? The commandments are made to be followed.
Because it's illegal to murder, does that mean that law was written to be broken and you are compelled now to murder somebody?
>be god
>have unlimited knowledge
>know EXACT action reaction chain that lead to some guy wrongdoing
>still punish his ass for eternal pain
>>80959124
Don't you fucking tell me what my culture is mate
>>80959270
So it's the second one then, but you'd probably admit to breaking at least a commandment a day am I right? Or do you never sin? If you do sin, how do you suppose you're going to get into heaven?
>>80959418
Yup. That's why I'm a sinner and do what I can to repent.
>>80959396
Shitskins in the middle-east told you what your culture is a thousand years ago. Theirs.
Get Ahmed's cock out of your mouth. Christianity is a shitskin religion that conquered Europe through violence, fear tactics, deceit and pressure, like Islam.
Your forefathers who fought hard to prevent the Christian menace are looking down on you with shame.
>>80959418
See
>>80957877
By repenting and doing what one wouldn't formally do, one makes it into the Kingdom of Heaven.
>>80958608
What Says the Abrahamic Monotheistic god is the tru god t
They're plenty of other Beliefs other then yours your Bible says that what they believe is blasphemy & there doomed to burn in your faith's hell for simply no believing as you.& has killed more people in the name of God than probably all aother religions combined.
>>80956049
logically speaking, it is possible for an all-powerful being to defeat himself. So he is so powerful he can create a rock at he can't lift, he would have to use his power to curb his power.
it's not hard
>>80959616
We killed mudslimes and heritics, chief.
Good thing too. Today's society is absolutely and completely cucked. They were smarter back then than we are now.
>>80959270
You do know that jhwh commanded Mose to murder, commit adultery and steal right?
>>80959566
>muh forefathers
its like god for pagans.
>>80959566
>Your forefathers who fought hard to prevent the Christian menace are looking down on you with shame.
Name them.
The grand majority of my ancestors were Christians you anachronistic bastard
>>80959566
>A LEAF
Fuck off, leaf.
>>80959730
Bearing children through various wives only became wrong in modern society. The whole point of sex is procreation, not recreation.
It's not murder if God commands it.
Definition of murder: the UNLAWFUL premeditated killing of one human being by another.
it's why governments can wage wars and not be convicted.
As for the stealing, I'm not sure what you're referring too.
>>80959454
So you're ready to admit that as of right now, if you suddenly had a heart attack and died, you'd be going to hell?
>>80958078
here
>>80956049
Omnipotence paradox m8.
>be dead
>see tunnel
>see god
>tell him "not an argument"
>go to hell
worth it.
>>80959930
>No kids
>unmarried
>Struggling with a pornographic addiction
That's correct. My personal feelings on the matter don't make objective truth any less objective.
>>80956049
i thought you died george
(good bit btw)
>>80955286
Its called balance
>>80959869
They killed the medianites, raped their daughters and stole their land
>It's not murder if God commands it.
Good to see you support ISIS
>>80957519
Sounds like your reality is being torn to nothing, n4, don't worry, it starts to get better after you get through the whole book; don't stop at three chapters, don't stop at the end- BZ's soft nihilism was mostly correct, but strong nihilism is more true.
>>80960041
What's called balance?
>>80960124
>This assumes ISIS follows the commandments of God
Good to see you think Islam is the true religion, if we're going to play this strawman game.
>>80958706
Any offense against an infinite good is itself infinite.
Daily reminder that religion is the source of all evil in the western world.
>>80960176
Nigger ISIS uses exactly the same argument.
If you don't believe in their god doesn't matter to them, as it doesn't matter to you they don't believe in your god (technically they do but you get the point)
>>80959792
It's the truth though. If you're proud of being white, you'd realize Christianity for the scum it really is. I have no tolerance for an invasive religion from a non-white background who killed my forefathers, lad.
If you're proud to be white, are a white nationalist, and are proud of your culture and heritage, it's hypocritical to be a Christian. Christian "european" culture ironically adapts most of its holidays and traditions from paganism, too, just with the flavor of worshipping a middle-eastern fairy tale spread by kikes to get European men to die in their wars.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWiXECm0M5g
>>80960275
Daily reminder that mexico is a craphole and following their example is literally retarted.
65.2 rating in a world with an average of 60
>>80960369
Go join ISIS then. Maybe Allah will save you. God certainly won't.
>>80955286
>condemns Christianity while his Capital's mayor is a Muslim
You deserve your fat desu
>>80956049
i know the answer to that paradox
but im not telling
drop dead
>>80960519
Fate*
But Brits are fat as fuck today so that too
>>80960275
Religion was the only thing that kept the West culturally homogeneous and morally intact
Now we are being punished by God for turning away from Him
We will burn as we are now
>>80959663
But an all-powerful being can do anything.
Are you telling me an all-powerful being can't do something? That would be against the very definition of all-powerful.
Unless you're telling me your God isn't all-powerful.
>>80960435
So you try to belittle my argument by attacking my country? Oh lawdy, religious fags sure are amusing.
>>80960457
Oh fuck off
And you guys wonder why nobody takes you seriously and only replies with >dead kike on a stick
>>80960676
You belittle my religion by making up falsehoods.
I use facts, you use lies.
>>80960580
we would be punished whatver path we would choose. As humans we always sin and sin leads to hell. Only sterilized saint manbabies might get to heaven.
>>80960719
Enjoy your muslims and your marxist tolerance.
>>80959683
Yeah have fun continuing killing each for top peaceful monotheist religion.Zionism Wahhabism ultra Orthodox Evangelism is Horrible radical racist fundamental religious beliefs that force the ideals on others spread hate.
>>80960519
Nice.
Not even religious, but I go to church with my family for Christmas.
Unless you want to go absolutely crazy, just assume that when Christians say "infallible" and "omnipotent" they mean "relatively powerful in a cosmic sense but not quite omnipotent". It's the only way to resolve some of the dissonance.
For all we know, in the infinity of space, there is some vastly powerful extraterrestrial intelligence that we have come to know as god.
>>80960726
Please elaborate in how anything stated in that picture is falsehood and stop using ad hominem to get your way.
>>80960755
>Religion is peaceful
Oh boy, here we go again.
34: Think not that I am come to send peace on earth I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
A homogenous society is peaceful. Period. So long as the world is mixed, there will always be war. That's blatantly obvious to the naked eye.
>>80959663
>So he is so powerful he can create a rock at he can't lift, he would have to use his power to curb his power.
But that means he can't create a rock he can't lift, because he can always "curve his power" to make it possible for him to lift the rock in the future.
This is basic logic anon
>>80960753
Enjoy your rigid christian morality and turn the other cheek when niggers and muslims rape your women and your pope kisses their feet.
Not believing in your faggy religion doesn't make you a marxist by the way.
>>80956049
God is called omnipotent on account of His doing what He wills.
And some theists will easily refute your argument by claiming omnipotence does not mean that God can do anything at all but, rather, that he can do anything that's possible according to his nature.
God can't perform logical absurdities. Since God is the Greatest, God cannot make something greater than Himself, according to the argument.
>>80960596
>But an all-powerful being can do anything.
You forgot "logical" after anything.
Something cannot be both true and false. So when you say all powerful being can do anything, the word thing refers to logically valid things.
A square circle is a not a thing. To an all powerful god, an unmovable object is not a thing.
>>80955286
Meh. A lot of people deserve eternal damnation.
>>80960580
Religion has always been a mean for power. Especially the ones that plagued the western world, since all of them emerged from judaism.
>>80960734
We are getting God's wrath on Earth
You can NEVER be righteous before God but you can repent and turn yourself towards Him
Work with Him not against Him and you will be rewarded both here and in the afterlife
>>80955286
I wasn't aware that we had free will in the first place.
>>80960977
>omnipotence does not mean that God can do anything at all but, rather, that he can do anything that's possible according to his nature
So a dog is all powerful because he can do anything that's possible according to his nature?
>>80960839
Point 1: Genesis 1:27-So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Point 2: He's still around. People don't listen to Him, and that's why the world suffers.
Point 3: >What is free will?
Do you want free will or not? If you don't, communism is that way--->
Point 4: Humanity is already saved. That's what the Atonement is.
Point 5: >What is the bible?
Point 6: Still spreading. It's why religion exists.
Point 7: Still adds to his message. God still speaks to Prophet Monson today.
Point 8: We know because we see the results of the words and that they are good.
Point 9: Did I forget anything? I'm not even sure what on earth this is referring too.
Literally every point of your crappy photo was a lie, except for point 9 which means only God knows what.
>>80958013
>when I live my entire life based on objective truth, and not believing in things I cant prove.
Bullshit. You start many assertions with things you have faith in.
I can ask you Why to your assertions over and over and you'll be left with simple faith.
>>80960963
Joke's on you, I'm not catholic.
>>80961073
It was the source of OUR strength and power
Now we're hanging by a thread
>>80955286
Even better, is that if god is omnipetent there is no free will because all future events are known to him and thus happen in a set fashion.
You have no free will if the christian god exists.
>>80961316
Yeah, it was also the reason many whites were enslaved in the first place.
>>80960977
So the reason God can't make an unmovable object is because it's not logical?
In what way is it not logical for God, a being who can do ANYTHING, LITERALLY ANYTHING BY HIS DEFINITION to be able to create an unmovable object?
If he were unable to create an unmovable object, then he wouldn't be omnipotent.
If he were able to create an unmovable object, then he wouldn't be omnipotent either as he wouldn't be able to move it.
You're just trying to dodge the fact that omnipotence is a self-refuting concept.
>>80961232
You're doing a false equivalency. Read the next line of what you quoted.
God can do everyting that is logical and that isn't unjust. Dogs cannot.
>>80961301
Then you're not a christian
>>80961408
Fundamentally incorrect. Scientists may know which direction a rat will go in a maze, but that does not mean the scientists compelled the rat to do so.
>>80961497
If god cannot break logic rules, then who created logic?
>>80955286
>falling for the eternal damnation meme.
Gehena is a place for destruction not suffering.
>>80961462
What's the proof for that?
>>80961522
No you don't understand, God knows every single event and action that will take place ever, because he has all knowledge. Because this knowledge exists in some sort of storage in gods entity, anything you do is reflected of the data in that storage. You are just following a set maze in god's memory.
>>80957877
Thanks i never understood this i thought jesus was talking to his disciples , but it were the jews
>>80955286
>eternal damnation
What do you think eternal damnation means?
>>80956837
>THeres no justification for sending even the worst human being to ETERNAL PAIN.
there is actually, you should read some theology.
>theres no justification for making any consequences for 80% of action that are considered sin
There is, and it makes perfect sense. Human nature is corrupted, either way it only seems 80% of human actions are a sin because you are a reprobate that enjoys sinning, it isn't the right percentage.
All you gotta do is believe in Jesus. All this other crap people piled on top of it is wrong. You don't get to heaven by works...
>>80961611
Possibly, but since I have absolutely zero knowledge of God's memory, I have free will. If I murder, it is my decision. God does not compel me one way or the other.
He warns, but he does not restrict.
>>80961605
>what is islam?
>what was the main purpose of the crusades?
>>80961497
So God isn't omnipotent?
Omnipotent doesn't just mean he can do everything that is logical, it means he can do everything is logical AND illogical or neither if that can possibly exist.
You can't redefine terms m8.
You're trying to make ominpotent mean "able to do everything within its nature" which is what he was pointing out.
>>80961464
>So the reason God can't make an unmovable object is because it's not logical?
And umovable object is not a thing. It is not logical. And thus it is not something God makes.
>a being who can do ANYTHING, LITERALLY ANYTHING BY HIS DEFINITION
Anything is the key word. And within that term, what's even more key is the word thing. Unmovable object is not a thing.
>You're just trying to dodge the fact that omnipotence is a self-refuting concept.
You're incapable of understanding simple words and all you're doing is a strawman.
>>80958706
proportionality is a quality of the reality we perceive in this life. It is just silly to apply it to the afterlife. It's like wondering why there is no ice cream in heaven.
>>80955856
>prey
keqq
>>80957584
>all these faggoty unlikable christians not reading their own book, playing ignorant and playing pretend because theyre borderline retarded
I can do that too
>>80961497
>God can do everyting that is logical
Well, no.
A logical system as powerful as god is either inconsistent or incomplete.
Either god is logical, then he's not all powerful, or he's all powerful but then he's not logical.
>>80961705
How did Christianity enslave White people?
ITT : people who take the main religion's interpretations of God and god's words as the only ways to believe in God.
It's like thinking the Republican and Democratic party's ways of doing politics are the only and true ways of doing politics in the US because they are the only 2 relevant political parties
After having lived with crippiling anxiety since 14 years old, nothing will ever make me worship god.
Maybe you can make believe, but I'll never forgive him for the chemistry in my brain. Never.
>>80961282
Maybe you should have done that instead of making an empty shitpost.
>>80960022
The first two things aren't even sins though, that should have no bearing on it. Anyway my point is that I think it is absolutely impossible to live a sinless life for anyone by the Bible's standards, following the commandments is hard enough for most never mind all the other moral suggestions the bible seems to make.
When it comes to christian theism I see a breakdown in logic precisely at this point, in my eyes it goes like this
>what are people born into since the fall in eden
sin
>what do you need to do to get into heaven
believe in god/don't sin
>is it even remotely possible that a person can live a consistently sinless life by the bible's standards? That is; never coveting your neighbors goods, never using god's name in vain, never lie etc (depending how hardcore you are, even thinking about these things is a sin)
no
Something's just not adding up here, Christianity clearly wasn't designed for Humans if these commandments are meant to be consistently upheld in order to get into heaven. It's never mentioned how long you have to stay pure either, can I just be pure for a few minutes before my death and call it a day there? Do I have to live a sinless life for years, or at the moment of death? Is any of this even detailed in the bible or is it like any other religion where it's just based on vague guesses? Are all your sins and good deeds weighed up? Where are these details?
It's like getting one of those phonecalls where you have to call through about 50 different companies and do surveys to get a holiday at the end of it, I feel like I'm getting scammed here in my search for specific answers about how to get into heaven.
>>80961698
He does not compel you, but no matter what thought processes you go through, no matter how you think or justify your actions or how hard you struggle to accomplish something, everything you do was destined to happen and there was nothing you could have changed to prevent it.
You say possibly, but if this isn't true then your god is not all knowing by definition.
>>80961715
But an unmovable object is a thing. It's a concept that fucking exists. How else would we be talking about it?
>>80957941
Jews dont exist anymore the jews are christians
>Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
>>80961861
That chemistry in your brain is sin. Pray and it shall be lifted from you
>>80961564
>>80961812
Which logic? The descriptive ones humans have devised, or the prescriptive ones of nature?
>>80961714
>So God isn't omnipotent?
That's not what I'm saying, you're doing a non sequitur.
>>80961714
>Omnipotent doesn't just mean he can do everything that is logical
According to God's nature, yes.
And when you're saying thing, you're implying logical. That's a predicate in the subject.
>You can't redefine terms
You're an idiot who's simply not aware of the terms. It's up to you to get educated in technical terms, not for others to have to explain them to you. Philosophical discussions tend to assumed people know the terms.
>>80960435
>religion still a shit though
your burger is showing
>>80961964
Netherlands is right. The blatant jew worship didn't start until the 70's.
>>80962036
>the prescriptive ones of nature?
the ones of nature. The ones that stop a square circle from existing.
>>80961714
logic is something we have to understand this world, using it to understand the afterlife is silly. God could change reality and make a square in the form of a triangle, but you would never notice if he did because your understanding of logic itself would change. God can change do everything, but the amount of things we can understand is very limited.
>You're trying to make ominpotent mean "able to do everything within its nature"
God is perfect, therefore he doesn't change nature because he already decided among all planes of existence and in eternity how it would pan out. The only limits God has and is forced to respect, are those he gives himself. Therefore there are things God theoretically cannot change because he imposed them on himself. That would also be a fallacy though, since God does not "impose" things on himself, but is always 100% resolute to his actions and true to himself, therefore the possibility itself of going against what he decided beforehand (also not a good way to explain it because he is out of time but you get my point) can never occur.
>>80962036
>Which logic? The descriptive ones humans have devised, or the prescriptive ones of nature?
There's literally no difference.
>>80961932
Things are objects, not concepts. You're an idiot.
>>80958293
>sin, and for that we are responsible for.
I'm not. Didn't ask to be part of this shit, don't ask to be reborn just to be sent to hell (that your God of course created for me just out of pure love).
>>80961814
>the dark ages
>the inquisition
All thanks to the amount of power given to the church by the monarchy because it was something that fitted their agenda.
>>80961901
>What are people born into since the fall in Eden
Yeah, that's where a lot of differences among the christian sects arise. I follow mormonism, which declares children are sinless in the eyes of God, being incapable of knowing God's will. No sin in ignorance.
>What do you need to believe to get into heaven.
Honestly, we don't even believe that much. We believe Christs' Atonement was omnipotent, meaning all men are saved. Hell is literally just an absence of God. Celestial, Terrestial, and Telestial Kingdoms, varying degrees of glory.
>Is it even possible to live a sinless life
Nope. That's why we repent a lot. The point is to keep repenting so you don't go down a path that ends in really, REALLY bad sin which is nightmarish hard to come back from.
I know slipper slope is supposed to be a fallacy, but I've seen it fulfilled so many times now I fully believe in slippery slope.
>>80962136
Bullshit
>>80960538
me too
feeling /smug/
>>80961748
How do you know there's no ice cream in heaven?
>>80962202
Good argument there my tea slurping friend
>>80961867
You're not worth my time. Ask yourslf why and try to remove your bias as much as possible. Eventually you'll be left with faith. Anyone who's done basic philosophy knows this.
Your sentence would have been better written:
>live my life based on objective truth as much as I can
>>80962036
>According to God's nature, yes.
Amazing, so God's nature makes omnipotent mean NOT omnipotent.
Fucking strange.
>And when you're saying thing, you're implying logical.
Nope. Illogical things are things too m8. Like God for instance.
>non sequitor
More like you're deflecting from the true problem.
>>80962149
So concepts aren't things?
>>80962198
How has the Christianity of "the dark ages", and "the inquisition" enslaved White people?
>>80961715
His knowledge is infinite, how do you know what he knows? He didnt have any straw man in there, but im sure you knew that honestly. Omnipotence is a self refuting concept. Either make a counterargument or fuck off with your deflecting.
>no you just dont understand words. STRAWMAN
Fuck off
>>80956173
god sounds like the bad guy from those SAW movies
>>80962199
>that's where a lot of differences among the christian sects
Heretics don't count. Only apostolic churches count.
>I follow mormonism
repent
>>80962245
because it absolves a function that only exists in a corrupted state of existence, i..e. this life. People in heaven don't eat.
If "god" came from nothing how come the universe couldn't do the same. Apparently to pic god is Jesus is A white guy but dinosaurs can't exist
>>80962321
No, they're immaterial, literally just an idea in your head. That's not a thing in the real world.
>what if hell is earth
>Living is suffering
>Reincarnating so eternally suffering
>until transcending
really makes you think
>>80962036
>According to God's nature, yes.
But how is this any different to saying humans can do anything within their own nature?
For example, you say God can't create an immovable object. It's impossible because then he would have to be unable to move it.
But hypothetically there could be another being who could create an unmovable object, and simply not claim to be all powerful. He can claim to be able to make immovable objects but not be able to push them. He can do something that God cannot. How can God truly be described as "all powerful" in this scenario? It's more like he can just do a lot of stuff. I guess he can do anything that doesn't enforce a restriction on himself?
>>80962250
>>Which logic? The descriptive ones humans have devised, or the prescriptive ones of nature?
>There's literally no difference.
Prove it
>>80962377
If God didn't exist life would be hard anyway, so who are you going to blame for it in that case? You sound like a whiny teenager who gets turned down by his oneitis and takes out his frustration on his guiltless parents who even have the patience to put up with his shit.
Why do we have threads like this? Is it just shills trying to take peoples faith away? It's pointless, and rather spergy desu famalam
>>80962395
I always find this argument kind of funny. So many christians seem to have a bi issue with the idea that atheists allegedly think "the universe came from nothing". But will happily claim that "god just always existed"
>>80962421
Yeah, but that's not the definition of thing.
Nothing is a thing. Something is a thing.
A purple space monkey is a thing, whether we know it exists in this universe or not.
>>80956592
Faith is just belief on lack of evidence. Religion is a credulity test and you failed spectacularly.
>>80962515
Rather than shills it is well intentioned people trying to reverse the philosophical lobotomy known as organized religion. There are so many ideas and avenues closed for you intellectual if you constrain yourself to a religious text.
>>80962591
Prove it
>>80962515
We are at a point that only people with true faith can keep it, in this atheistic nightmare that is the nu-West
>>80962496
Define what you mean by "prescriptive ones of nature" first
>>80962677
prove what? That I find that argument funny?
>>80962254
>Claim you can argue against what Ive said
>Dont bother to give an actual argument
>Told to produce an actual argument
>Bah, youre not worth my time!
Yea, okay Reddit, better you go spend your time prepping the bull for your wife.
>>80962379
I'm not gonna repent for mormonism, haha. It's the most non-degenerate religion out there, alongside Catholicism. It's one of our basic points to let states govern themselves, like when Jesus told the Jews to render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's.
Also, our stances are very clear on fag marriage, and sexual promiscuity, drug use, etc. Literally non degenerate across the board.
Heck, my video game excess is even bad.
Also, we believe Peter came down from heaven and directly passed the apostolic keys onto Prophet Smith. So we got the apostolic line covered.
>>80962591
we already know that the Universe was created, that it will die eventually, and that it does not come from nothing. Saying the universe came from nothing is simply dishonest and retarded.
The idea that God always existed isn't provable, but is a lot more likely than the 100% refuted idea that the universe came from nothing and therefore created itself
>>80962515
So you're saying religion can't stand up to scrutiny?
If it can't, it doesn't belong in the market place of ideas any longer.
>>80955286
>be fallible and impotent human
>think you can understand an infallible and omnipotent being
Sometimes, I wonder if there are ant philosophers asking the same questions about humans.
>>80962662
Agnostic Christianity is compatible with every and all intellectual avenues
Yours faith is where your faith lies
>>80962662
Oh please, if people constrained their intellectual ideas to their religion there'd be a significant number of people who still believe the earth was flat ad there aren't, obviously people can be religious without the ideological restraints
>>80962794
>but is a lot more likely than the 100% refuted idea that the universe came from nothing and therefore created itself
This is not at all what the Big Bang theory claims though. The big bang theory is not a theory of the origin of the universe.
>>80962694
The more atheists whine, and every time the media trashes Christianity (never any other religion. Why is that?) the stronger my faith gets. They are proving the bible to be accurate. They can whine all they want, it makes no difference to me.
>>80962720
The supposedly logical rules by which existence necessarily functions
>>80962799
I'm saying it's based off of faith and gives meaning to what might otherwise we construed as meaningless, don't be a child, thinking 'oh yah im gonna redpill some dweebs today, which fedora should i wear this time?' It's pointless and more than that; selfish
>>80962090
>>80962475
Don't reply twice to the same post.
Logic is the relations to what exists (in all universes). God made those things. And since they exist, they follow logic, are logical, etc...
Can God break logic? That would be asking if God can violate himself. The question doesn't make sense to begin with.
It's like asking why is 2+2=5? It's not contradictory question.
>>80962273
>so God's nature makes omnipotent mean NOT omnipotent.
No, that's not what it means. God's nature is omnipotent because he can do everything logical. Illogical is not a thing. It simply doesn't happen as God is not unjust.
>Illogical things are things
By definition, a thing is logical or follows logic.
>Like God for instance.
God's will is logical.
>More like you're deflecting from the true problem.
There is no deflection. You're just repeating your nonsense thinking it follows when it doesn't. Heck, you don't even know the difference between an object and a concept.
>>80962503
im not blaming god im just saying you have to be really phyco to make some you love suffer so it can go to heven
>be god
>create man
>love man
>make man suffer
>man dose some bad stuff because of the suffering
>send man to hell to suffer more
why do you need to be good to go to heven anyway why can we all go there automaticly
>>80962832
>conceptual logic doesn't apply to beings we can conceptualize
If we can logically define something, we can apply logic to it to see if the concept is logical.
Religion and gods are not immune from scrutiny no matter how much you whine.
>>80962845
>>80962841
Thats what you say, but in methaphysics you can't explore any number of avenues that discount certain dogmatic attributes of the text's god. Further you lose the perspective to truly integrate international philosophy into your western framework because it evolved from a separate dogma.
Now you can be a "casual" deist christian and still be intellectual but the bible becomes all but a paperweight in terms of truth value.
>>80962627
>Yeah, but that's not the definition of thing.
According to who?
>Nothing is a thing.
The No part of nothing indicates it isn't a thing.
You're incapable of doing simple logic.
>>80962379
But if God is infinite that must mean he's also ice cream and burgers, right?
>>80962913
God save your American States
https://youtu.be/uNOTozVp_i4?t=5m31s
>>80962990
>Don't reply twice to the same post.
why? Did that bother you?
>Can God break logic? That would be asking if God can violate himself.
But that wasn't at all the question. The question was who/what created logic. It seems to have been created before God as God is bound by it.
>>80963055
If everything was great all the time how could you ever appreciate heaven? It's like you want to be spoiled.
>>80962749
>It's the most non-degenerate religion out there
It blasphemes God, there is nothing more degenerate than that. Using "degeneracy", i.e. an understanding of human relations as a basis to decide which commands God has given has is just silly.
>. It's one of our basic points to let states govern themselves, like when Jesus told the Jews to render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's.
No, you are misusing that quote, and this just proves you don't trust God. You should care to follow 100% God's commands, and trust in him and his will. Instead you think that following a certain denomination will make the world a better place based on their way to deal with the material world, using material means. That is a satanic idea.
>Also, our stances are very clear on fag marriage, and sexual promiscuity, drug use, etc. Literally non degenerate across the board.
Plenty of religions who have such stances, but they will probably go to hell anyway because they refuted God's will. God's will isn' just about not being a degenerate by /pol/ standards, it is about following His Will 100%.
>we believe Peter came down from heaven and directly passed the apostolic keys onto Prophet Smith
That's pure fan-fic
>we got the apostolic line covered.
no you don't
>>80963055
>why do you need to be good to go to heven anyway why can we all go there automaticly
Don't go down that road mate you'll get no convincing answers. All the answers will speculate about god's character but ultimately they can't tell you why. It's just "part of god's plan"
>>80962341
>His knowledge is infinite, how do you know what he knows?
I'm not claiming I know everything God knows.
>He didnt have any straw man in there
Yes he did in a previous post.
>Omnipotence is a self refuting concept. Either make a counterargument or fuck off with your deflecting.
Deflecting is a meme used by idiots like you who are running from arguments and hiding behind it.
>>80962990
thing does not imply logical.
God's nature being omnipotent does not imply logical.
Omnipotent does not mean what you think it means.
Same for thing and unjust.
You are literally retarded and your religion doesn't stand up against the fucking dictionary.
Pathetic.
>>80963084
You can study a separate dogmatic view maybe even better if you trust your own, a way to contrast for the average person, honestly religion doesn't harm anything, stop being a sperg trying to redpill people on something that only you care about
>>80963172
it dosnt have to be great all the time just not awfull
>>80963068
>he seriously thinks he can define god!
>>80963084
I can explore all avenues of intellectual thought
I don't have to believe any of them
>>80962873
So why do famous scientists literally write books called "The universe out of nothing"??? Are you implying they are liars?
Also you misunderstand my point. Atheists believe that whatever existed before the universe expanded (basically the universe in a smaller width) came out of nothing. So they believe the universe created itself, and there is simply no logical reason to believe so.
>>80960977
If god is constrained by logic, he isn't actually omnipotent.
Also, if god is constrained by logic how can he exist with no need for a creator (cause).
>>80963297
I get what you're saying but we made it awful, not God.
