>>80539487
Atheists are just edgy teenagers who never grew up. Everyone knows god exists. They reject him because they they are arrogant.
>>80539796
Yeah man fuck god! You're right about that much at least
they dont want their actions to have consequence
>>80540170
>god fearing
>uses the lords name in vain
>>80539487
They just need to step into the light anon..
All they need to do is believe
>>80539487
Bump. Genuinely curious
Because some of us don't need an imaginary friend to not be a piece of shit.
>>80539487
>former catholic here
It's a Jew-spiracy.
>"turn the other cheek"
>Jesus was a jew, muh israel.
>eternal punishment for any misbehavior, so don't step outta line goy!
I support Christianity 100% though, since it's a big part of our shared history. I'll stand with you on the day of the rope against the sub-humans and lefty atheist race-traitors.
>>80539487
Why can't god accept atheists?
>>80540170
Louis Prothero literally said and did nothing wrong.
I think all this religious bullshit is clever sliding
>>80540366
Why do you think He should?
>>80540170
You were there for the fall of Rome?
>>80540341
What do you think is the right thing to do and the wrong thing to do?
>>80540294
>being this cucked by god
>afraid to even talk about the guy lest he fuck your wife
>>80540342
This. Christian morals are American morals.
>>80539487
Why cant christians accept the other 6,955 gods terms, including the flying speghetti monster?
What about people who worship anime characters as gods?
Should I go with a adjustable rate mortgage or play it safe?
What are the benefits and downsides between the differences of Doggy Style and Reverse Cowgirl?
What does this chart mean?
Does anyone have that picture of the feel outside in the rain?
Im not sure what to believe anymore. maybe I need to inject more marijuana.
>>80540482
Because when atheist are of good alignment, they aren't doing so simply for fear of god or a selfish desire to go to heaven.
For example, an atheist who lives the teachings of Christ does so because he truly understands the merit of these teachings and not because he is a beta faggot.
>>80540842
There can be none a more supreme being than the Abrahamic God. Not even by a long shot
All other gods are not worth considering
>>80539796
Personally I reject any "religious" god because if one exists he's clearly a piece of shit. No "merciful/loving" god could let this world continue as it is.
I do believe there could be a god that created the uni/multiverse but doesn't actively give a shit about it.
>>80539487
Why even care if god exists or not?
>>80541057
How can you believe that the teachings of Christ are good if you think they're equally valid to any other teachings?
>>80541088
>autism
>>80541429
Because he is the absolute source that can justify the possibility for absolute truth, absolute goodness, absolute goodness, and absolute faith
It's basically the absolute cure to post-modern relativism
>>80541275
>what is free will
>>80541544
>leftie
You're the one who believes everything is relative and subjective my friend
>>80541676
>meant to say absolute beauty after the fist "absolute goodness"
>>80541755
>what is determinism
> omniscience
No being has ever fucked up as badly as your god
>>80541676
>Rely on a fake being
>Does not rely on one self
>>80539487
why do you care what others spiritual choices are?
Why can't people who believe in organized religion not realize that it's all a sham made to control people?
>2016
>Not being a Deist
lmao
>>80539487
Why can't you Atenites accept my god?
Can someone seriously give one good reason/proof of god's existence??? I personally couldn't care either way, and don't label myself as anything. But it always confuses me when religious people call atheists edgy teenagers, it's always pretty ironic to me since literally every religious person I know was either indoctrined into it from birth, or is just a completely idiot with an out of control life who decided to latch onto it instead of actually putting effort into fixing their life.
No citing the bible please, for obvious reasons; The Chamber of Secrets isn't the best citation if I'm trying to prove Harry Potter's psychical existence.
Or are "proof" and "evidence" dirty atheist tricks?
>>80541890
>your god
HE IS EVERYONE'S GOD WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT. HE IS YOUR GOD TOO.
>>80541755
So free will means a merciful/loving god can't be merciful/loving?
Then he isn't good, and is by definition a piece of shit.
>>80542374
>HE IS YOUR GOD TOO.
Says who?
>>80542226
You'll get no proof, they'll just tell you that all you have to do is believe anon ;^)
>>80542015
You yourself cannot vouch for those absolute things, not even in theory
>>80542374
REEEEEEEEEEEE
>>80542111
I'm curious whether or not they are wrong
>>80542441
He created us. Obama is also your president, whether you like it or not. The same applies to god.
>>80542618
>He created us.
Says who?
>>80542607
I don't think that is an answer you'll ever really find in this life
God created us
He made your parents
your parents created you
Even if you hate your parents, they're still your parents, and you can't change that.
>>80542226
What specifically do you mean by "proof"?
>literally bending knee to an "all-powerful" tyrant
Sic semper tyrannis
>>80542226
You cannot prove god exists.
Though there is a mountain of evidence that proves just about everything in the bible false, and evidence that proves God's intrinsic qualities as wrong.
There isn't any undeniable proof for either case.
eh well you know
>>80542777
Nice trips
You "don't think" or you "know" I'm never gonna find out?
>>80542786
>God created us
SAYS WHO?
A
Y
S
W
H
O
?
>>80543039
Says (((God))) :^)
>>80542943
>Though there is a mountain of evidence that proves just about everything in the bible false
By the standards of the scientific method
>and evidence that proves God's intrinsic qualities as wrong.
By the standards of logic
>>80539487
Because they wouldn't be atheists if they believed in god.
>>80542871
I mean what leads you to believe in the things your believe in? Christianity makes some pretty huge claims, and I've yet to anything backing up any of them. Wouldn't burden of proof lie on the person claiming all these ridiculous things are real, rather than the person saying they're not? Is 100% of your belief just based on "faith"? So you believe in God because you believe in God essentially?
>>80543171
Exactly ;^)
>>80541088
>my gods better than yours!
>>80541795
Morale and cultural relativism is a leftist argument, not an atheistic one.
I only believe in keek
>>80543099
And this is why arguing with the religious is circular and pointless.
By real life standards, god is not necessary.
Niggers exist, therefore no god
>>80543211
>I mean what leads you to believe in the things your believe in?
It depends. What do you think should lead me to believe in Him and why?
>Christianity makes some pretty huge claims, and I've yet to anything backing up any of them.
An equally gargantuan claim is to claim God does not exist
>Wouldn't burden of proof lie on the person claiming all these ridiculous things are real, rather than the person saying they're not?
The burden of proof lies on both (and on all who make any claims)
It's only absent on the ones who don't make one
>Is 100% of your belief just based on "faith"?
Not 100%. I can't quantify a proportion
>So you believe in God because you believe in God essentially?
Not "because". I just believe in God, period, end of story. He is my last axiom
>>80543412
He kind of is, by definition (check His attributes - the omni- etc. ones)
>>80543099
>I don't like logic or science
>Christards - 2016
Drones of organized religion, everybody!
>>80539487
You know, for people who don't believe something exists, they certainly care a lot about it.
I've always found that strange.
>>80543916
>atheist started this thread
>>80543523
Atheism is the necessary facilitator of relativism and subjectivism
>>80543725
You don't know what circular logic is.
Define "real life"
>>80543978
I can understand why religious people care, conversion is usually a core doctrine.
But not why atheists care.
>>80543881
I like them. But they are not absolute judges of anything
>>80540842
That's the most retarded chart I've ever seen
>>80539796
>arrogant to be atheist
I argue it's arrogant to think this universe cares so much about you that there is an omniscient, omnipotent, omnibenevolent father like God that makes your prayers come true yet allows innocents to suffer.
>>80544050
Christianity is a necessary facilitator for predetermination.
What's your point?
>>80543862
YHWH started out as a humanized pantheon deity just like everyone else. It isn't that hard to keep screaming he's better every time more shit pops up to disprove him.
>>80542534
>I can be an animal
>No you can't you need an a imaginary friend named "God"
>No thanks
>No you must
>I really don't need a being in which you will try to comprehend
>That's why I believe in cthulhu
I wish I could believe in God bros but I just don't feel the 'faith', I've always been attracted to arguments of logic and science and it just seems like God exists in the gaps that science hasn't yet filled - how many times has the Catholic church backtracked on saying science that contradicts the bible is wrong
Why can't I feel faith bros
>>80544611
>predetermination
*Predestination
RIP Acid-jew.
>>80544734
you're too intelligent
organized religions are total shams. If you desperately need to feel some sense of spirituality, just take a bunch of acid or DMT
>>80544611
>It isn't that hard to keep screaming he's better every time more shit pops up to disprove him.
Christians moved the goalposts hard, all at once to what their definition for god is. Decades if not centuries ago. Or maybe they just clarified it, I don't know. One of the biggest problems with atheism is that no atheist has ever used an argument that is actually relevant to most of their doctrine.
But it's basically impossible to disprove what they've reduced it to, which is basically just an idea.
Unless you mean evangelical protestants, they're the ones who believe in creationism and shit.
>>80539487
I don't see what religion has to offer me. I know too much about its history to ever put my faith in a god. I just don't see the point in life.
>>80544928
I feel like it's similar to taking the redpill, you're probably less happy than the bluepilled masses but you can't go back
>>80544611
>What's your point?
My point is that there would be no more Cultural Marxism if we had faith in the God of the Bible
>YHWH started out as a humanized pantheon deity just like everyone else. It isn't that hard to keep screaming he's better every time more shit pops up to disprove him.
He is better than any other god imaginable, by virtue of his attributes: Omniscience, Omnipotence, Omnibenevolence (and others)
>>80544734
Anything holding blind belief as a virtue should instantly be susicious.
If it was able to justify itself, then faith should be unnecessary.
But god likes to hide behind subtle blows in the wind and special people you'll never be to directly communicate to mankind.:^)
>>80544960
>I just don't see the point in life
*Because* you're an atheist.
The point of life to a Christian is the most blindingly obvious thing in all reality.
>>80539796
Because he doesn't exist and none of you faggots can prove otherwise
>>80545111
>Omniscience, Omnipotence, Omnibenevolence
Not like many other gods fit this already
>Lurk god damn more
>>80539796
>>80544960
How does the history of a religion disprove its god?
>>80545318
>Omniscience, Omnipotence, Omnibenevolence
How can you explain the existence of evil if he is all of those things? You can't be all 3 of those and have evil exist
>>80545315
Neither can you prove He doesn't exist ye hypocrite
>>80545405
if a congregation found out the real interpretation of God, this congregation would have history prove a cosmic preference for this group if that God were really caring, omnipotent and real
>>80545524
I'm Christian, take a wild guess
Free-w___
>>80545318
Examples?
>>80545524
>Omnibenevolence
>Benevolence
>Free-____
>>80545638
Child cance-
I choose not to, because there isn't any evidence to support any of the god claims made in the course of human history.
>>80545111
>There would be no cultural marxism if we had faith in god and the bible.
They would just come up with something different to do it.
There are more than one ways to create an ideology to destroy civilization, Protestants accuse Catholics of doing that all the time.
>>80545636
Define:
"caring"
and
"cosmic preference"
>>80544960
Why is belief in God and life being pointless mutually exclusive? Don't make the mistake of thinking God is exclusively good. It is both perfectly good and perfectly evil. Parmenides is the philosopher that explained God to me, and he does an excellent job of btfo'ing Socrates as he describes it in indisputable logic. I'd be happy to continue, if interested.
Probably because you christfags are fucking retarded. God literally gets his ass beat by Chemosh in the Bible, yet you faggots insist he is "all powerful". He admits he can make mistakes too which doesn't make him sound all that all knowing. Additionally there's that whole "angels fucked human women and made giant babies" retarded shit. It's amazing how much you cucks cherry pick your retarded religion to justifiy shit. How many of you have eaten lobster? Or are circumcised? Both are forbidden in Christianity.
Not to mention the sheer amount of logical quandries that arise with being "all powerful". Can God create a puzzle so complex he can't solve it?
>>80545819
Solely a product of sin ;^)
>>80545638
>Free will
>Omniscience
Pick one, if God knows all then your actions must be predetermined since He has to know everything you will do throughout the course of your life
>>80545938
>perfectly
A god can never be perfect he/she can only be like the ones who created him/she
>>80545851
Do you care more about civilisation or morality?
>>80546023
Try picking both.
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/david-lewis/
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/leibniz-modal/
p1) wills exist
p2) wills can make (and do make) all possible choices over all possible worlds
----
c) Even if God knows what choices you can/will make (which is all possible choices), one cannot possibly be more free than a reality in which you can - and do - make any - and all - decisions
That's the very bare bones of it.
>>80545548
Can you prove I'm not a 6 headed alien? No
But there is AMPLE proof that Jesus didn't exist. There is no historical evide ce for it and the Romans were great record keepers. We have cases predating Christ by centuries yet no Jesus.
Say what you want about sandniggers but at least their founder has some fucking proof behind his existence
>>80546000
Do you think newborns are capable of sin? Or is sin inherited/collective?
Can you can turn off your sympathies for any horrible event that can happen to absolutely anyone because you think that the only way chaos affects people is in an orderly way that only hits those who have offended your God?
>>80545981
Those stories aren't about the one true god, they're about what the Jews call elohim, that the akkadians called annunaki, and what the Sumerians called the dingir. Who knows what they really are, but they aren't my god.
>>80545111
Omnipotence and omni benevolence, are not attributes of your god.
>is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent
>Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent
>Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
>is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
If such a God does exist, he is without a doubt a tyrant, and should be opposed.
And to you retards preaching
>MUH MORALS
No, Christianity and even religion in general did not create the concept of morality.
>Its another 'Christfags rile up atheists' thread.
Fuck off already.
>>80546023
>predetermined
Not really. He purposely allowed for an extensive array of possible choices for the descendents of Adam to make
He knows every such but He does not directly intervene in us making them
>>80546079
God's perfection can only be perceived in the abstract, such as math and logic. A perfect curve can only exist in the abstract as a formula- but never in our own, physical reality.
>Jeremiah 46:25 I will punish the multitude of No, and Pharaoh, and Egypt, with their gods.
>Acts 14:11-12 The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men. And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius...
>Exodus 12:12 And against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment...
>Exodus 23:13-33 KJV And make no mention of the name of other gods, Thou shalt not bow down to their gods, nor serve them, nor do after their works: but thou shalt utterly overthrow them, and quite break down their images. Thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor with their gods. for if thou serve their gods, it will surely be a snare unto thee.
Daily reminder that the Bible itself acknowledges the existence of other gods
You cannot call yourself a Christian and not also believe in Ra, Anubis l, Set and the other gods of Egypt
>>80546560
>Using math/science to justify a being without it
Wahh?
>>80546278
What is your proof that Jesus didn't exist?
>Can you prove I'm not a 6 headed alien? No
There's nothing to show that you couldn't be
>>80546605
Enoch talks about them in great detail, and doesn't call them gods, but "watchers."
>>80546129
Why does that matter? Neither need religion.
human morality always comes to the same conclusions across most cultures with slight differences based on environment.
Anything that causes pain and suffering is typically amoral. mental illness, low intellect and aggression are the basis in which many fail to live up to a morale code because they can not feel empathy.
Morality is not relative, as it's always based on the human element. There is an objective bad across all cultures, and it is always based on such human elements.
>Genesis 6:6-7 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
>Humanity was a mistake, the Bible verse
Oh wait, I thought God couldn't make mistakes
>>80546279
Give me an example of pure chaos
>sin is inherited as well
Yes
>>80546421
>No, Christianity and even religion in general did not create the concept of morality.
Why should you keep to your morals if they are purely relative and subjective?
>>80541755
A gift from Lucifer when he got us to eat from the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil
Yeah you didn't really think that through did you
>>80546639
>considers himself separate from the being.
It is. This cannot be refuted, because the opposite of this statement is "it isn't," which is equivalent to saying "nothing is," which it isn't. I'm other words, try to imagine "nothing." You can't, because we soon as you do, you're thinking of something. Nothing cannot be. From this, it follows that what is does not move, because I'm order to move, it must transfer its volume where it is not- but there is no such thing as "is not"- which is the same as nothing.
>>80546832
Why is causing suffering objectively bad?
>>80539487
Fuck off Jew
>>80547254
God damn auto-correct.
>tfw been an atheist my whole life, even remember thinking to myself about how god doesnt exist when i was like 6
>literally WANT to believe in god because i feel religion is beneficial for man and society as a whole
>want to enjoy and participate in the religion of my ancestors
>literally cant make the mental leap to start believing
i literally WANT to but just cant. what do i do bros im asking for help.
>Deuteronomy 24:16 ESV
>“Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.
>Ezekiel 18:19-20
>“Yet you say, ‘Why should not the son suffer for the iniquity of the father?’ When the son has done what is just and right, and has been careful to observe all my statutes, he shall surely live. The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.
Really then why do we inherit original sin YHWH? The Bible can't maintain internal consistency past a single book honestly.
>>80546982
>>80541755
So free will trumps God's omnipotence/science/benevolence?
>>80547140
i would eat the apple again, fool
enjoy your ignorant bliss i would prefer to suffer if that is even true
fuck your diseased maniacal tribal child king jew god YHWH and his son also
The golden rule is good but the idea people can do whatever they want is fucking cancer
Fuck all your jew nigger abrahamic religions, ill find my own way.
Not all who wander are lost.
>>80547454
Where the fuck is there a conflict? They're not mutually exclusive *at all*.
>>80547428
What's going on in your mind when you're attempting to make a leap of faith in God?
>>80547454
What this guy >>80547574 said
>>80547428
I was the same way all throughout my life, and I was always proud to have resisted what thought to be manipulative brainwashing... until I did dmt. I won't go into detail, but suffice to say I'm no longer an atheist, and I know that the truth is stranger than fiction.
>>80547525
*do whatever they want and be forgiven afterward
>>80539487
And fuck you too OP
Fuck this Abraham and his jew cancer. Take the real red pill.
>>80547440
>THIS IS YAHWEH
>[citation needed]
If God truly existed, there would be no atheists.
>>80547254
Still not going to believe in a being made from others.
>>80547733
That's about as ingenuous a statement as "If God truly existed, there would be no cantaloupes".
>>80547712
>red pill this
>red pill that
Autism
>>80547733
>/thread
>But there would be rebels
>>80545315
man everything is spiritual, people in high places know it and they use it to gain power in this life, that why they are allied with satan
>>80547712
>>80547733
and by that i mean - the fact that you can never know for sure either way. Deal with it. Own the uncertainity, become stronger.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absurdism
>>80547733
If I didn't believe that people like Hillary, soros, and others are going to burn in hell some day, I would do my absolute damnedest to kill them- otherwise, what hope is there for justice?
>>80539487
We don't believe the world deserves an infinitely gracious god.
>>80539487
I needed a sign.
Asked for it. Got it
God save us all
>>80547288
A good point, we aren't even remotely relevant. But that's just another issue with the Bible. It insists humans are important and relevant. No real god would have anything to say about us beyond "What about them?" Look at the fucking universe, we're fucking tiny. It's infinitely larger than everything god built in the other days, yet it only took one. Even then, the first thing God did was make light, actual light sources did not appear until day four. Now I actually have a scientific way to explain this but I'm not the one stuck defending it. It's your job to have answers and honestly Christians by in large simply can't keep up.
btw my answer comes from gamma rays which are not visible light but collisions of them formed all conventional matter you currently see. But damn it, you should be the ones thinking of answers like that, you guys never do.
>>80547140
we had free will, that's why we eat the apple
>>80547954
yes, and this is how the rich jews control you. Do you even know who chose the books that went into the bible? Or why?
They tell you to be meek, shut up, dont make trouble, youll get your reward after you die. Let the rich enjoy the wealth and plenty of the world, dont worry goy, theyll be punished!
It's a genius control system too many of you are stuck in. There is more to life than hoping you get to go to the bonus round afterward.
>>80547597
basically i want to be religious because i feel its beneficial for the morals and structure of society, but when i start thinking about it, it just all seems pretty unlikely that its true from a rational standpoint.
>>80547709
did you become a christian?
>>80548161
I'm not even a christian. I follow the way, the true way that Jesus taught, as well as Buddha, Lao Tzu, and many others all throughout history. The way may have died out in the Christian branch, but it perserveres in others.
>>80539487
There is no evidence.
That is all.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence etc.
>>80547288
Suffering = conflict
Humans have emotion, emotion influences action. It's not beneficial for humans to make enemies, especially within the tribe of which morality is at it's throne of development.
Funny, every culture had a very similiar morality for their core members but will dehumanize everyone else as a non-subject to said morality. Whether it be other cultures, races or their own women.
>>80547574
>>80547689
This is why I hate arguing with you people. Try to keep up here:
>gods attributes: OmniPOTENCE/omniBENEVOLENCE
>All POWERFUL and all GOOD
>If god is ALL GOOD
>then why is EVIL allowed to exist
>free will
> God's OMNIPOTENCE cannot conquer free will to establish his OMNIBENEVOLENCE
An all powerful and all good deity, can do nothing to prevent evil free will.
Then god is not all powerful, or not all good.
>>80548112
Not all of it, we didn't have a concept of right and wrong. Remember I'm not the one telling you this, The Bible is. You did not have the capacity to know right from wrong before biting from the tree. We were literally incapable of deciding for ourselves. Even when the serpant shows up Adam still does the same shit he's always done, obey. When Eve bites from the apple she also does what she always does, obey. The only one not to obey is Lilith and Christfags are too beta to ever admit she used to be part of that story.
>>80548398
This post. The gateway to all understanding.
>>80548506
The words of truth are always paradoxical.
Lao Tzu (c.604 - 531 B.C.)
>>80548398
Buddists dont believe in everlasting hell and taoists dont believe in hell at all.
Your viewpoints are coming from the christian brainwashing.
You can experience DMT or whatever else you have simply because you are alive.
Please don't squander it for bullshit. Aspire to be all you can, even if that includes being an assassin.
>>80548062
>No real god would have anything to say about us beyond "What about them?"
Why the fuck not?
>Look at the fucking universe, we're fucking tiny.
But the only known and most advanced sentient creature
>It's infinitely larger than everything god built in the other days, yet it only took one.
It's not only size that matters ;^)
>Even then, the first thing God did was make light, actual light sources did not appear until day four.
The light of God (even more real than any material light sources) was illuminating the Earth up until that point
>Now I actually have a scientific way to explain this but I'm not the one stuck defending it. It's your job to have answers and honestly Christians by in large simply can't keep up.
Because you keep trying to shut down debate every chance you get (muh Alder's razor, muh physicalism, muh naturalism)
Fuck off
>btw my answer comes from gamma rays which are not visible light but collisions of them formed all conventional matter you currently see. But damn it, you should be the ones thinking of answers like that, you guys never do.
wow you are so smart. Bet you're even an actual scientist, not just a pop-science youtube videos fanboi
>>80548321
What makes you believe in reason itself then?
>>80548543
not having the concept of right and wrong != free will, you dont know what you are talking about
and even if lilith is real she is going to burn in the end like all demons are going to do
if you do want to do what you want you can do it, just face the consecuences
>>80548652
Only one person in a million becomes enlightened without a teacher's help.
Bodhidharma
T. I had a real teacher
>>80548434
Absence of evidence =! Evidence of Absence
A likewise extraordinary claim is: God does not exist
>>80548917
Then you wouldnt hope for soros and others to burn forever.
Youre a fool and not worth my time.
>>80548795
inner truths derived from living on this mortal plane i suppose
>>80548495
>Funny, every culture had a very similiar morality for their core members but will dehumanize everyone else as a non-subject to said morality. Whether it be other cultures, races or their own women.
Does that make suffering and conflict objectively bad?
>>80546605
>Daily reminder that the Bible itself acknowledges the existence of other gods
That's because Judaism is Atenism and Moses was Akhenaten.
>>80548981
Not forever. I believe in a just god. Once they've paid, they're free, and beyond that, I don't claim to know what happens next. Maybe reincarnation, maybe obliteration.
>>80549050
Does logic arrive at actual truths and actual knowledge?
>>80548981
Also, it would not be an assassination, but a righteous revolution
>>80548506
>God will not* use His OMNIPOTENCE to conquer free will because to do so would be evil
ftfy
>>80539487
The god of this universe is dead, asleep at the wheel, and has been replaced by a corrupt rules-based impersonator (called the Demi-Urge).
That doesnt mean there isnt what we'd consider to be a "god" out there. Just that the one any monotheism worships is fake.
Most of what was written in old bibles and scriptures was yet more beings of great power impersonating the creator.
The real one doesn't require worship.
And doesn't have rules.
And contains both love and darkness.
Everything comes from it.
Let us pray
>>80548506
he wanted to create evil, do you think it just happened? this life is a test
>>80549726
Thank you God for blessing this thread. And illuminating the minds of the young fedoras still struggling with their faiths
In the name of the Lord we pray. Amen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=or_L4m4x5uQ
>>80548506
Humans can't exist in a purely good space. We aren't perfect the way God is. A universe like ours can't exist without differences in all things, because things like choices can't exist without them. Differences are necessary in the strictest philosophical sense.
Free will only exists because the wrong choices exist. If there were only good in the world, then only the best choice would be open to you all the time, meaning you'd be an automaton, producing only best choices. Look at the Angels, this is what they were before the rebellion, and this is the reason the rebellion was necessary before the existence of humans.
Evil's existence doesn't reflect on the capacities of God, it reflects the limits of the world he created. And if you think he ought to have made a world without limits, you're insane.
>>80549213
probably
>>80549488
>it would be evil for god to prevent evil
And there it is. Circular argument.
>>80548506
Oldest shit ever. That argument has been diced hundreds of thousands of times over by fucking undergrads for Christ's sake.
>>80549857
Lmaomen.
>>80549899
Let's see those probability formulae mate
>>80549931
There is no such thing as evil except as degrees of separation from God
>>80549107
It's hitting the abstract bedrock of the human idea of bad.
Basically, my point is that humanity has a universal idea of bad based on our existence as a social species in a social environment.
Certain behaviors damage social cohesion of the tribe and thus are morally bad among themselves.
Many of these elements would be seen as bad by other cultures as well, but we simply compartmentalize our enemies so that our morals don't apply to them, if we humanized them then empathy would set in.
This is where morale relativists get lost, they assume because one person benefits from something his morality considers good while another considers it evil, that it's relative.
But at the end of the day, one guy got shit stolen from him and the other gained something. The thief still made an enemy, the thief still earned the ire of the victim and he victims family. The theif, who wouldn't steal from his own kind, simply dehumanized the victim or twisted his morality to justify him, even though the action is clearly bad, especially for the majority of those affected. You don't need a gods divine law to come to such a conclusion.
Besides, Abrahamic religions still pull the same shit, purge the heretic for he is not one of us, god's morales don't apply here!
>>80550151
i dont have one
>>80550484
And if you did have one, and it's conclusion wasn't 0% or 100%, it would necessarily be wrong.
PRAISE KEK
>>80549931
So since it is evil to prevent evil that means evil must be is good, and by reflexivity, therefore good is evil.
Evil is good, good is evil...
But that's just nihilism, and I already have that with atheism.
>>80550677
Whatever qek is. Maybe a spirit really has possessed this board.
>>80550382
>Basically, my point is that humanity has a universal idea of bad based on our existence as a social species in a social environment.
Universal is not objective
>Certain behaviors damage social cohesion of the tribe and thus are morally bad among themselves.
Why is social cohesion objectively good? What if that society is an unjust one? Should one wish for more cohesion into that kind of society?
>Many of these elements would be seen as bad by other cultures as well, but we simply compartmentalize our enemies so that our morals don't apply to them, if we humanized them then empathy would set in.
Empathy does not override reality. Some people are objectively inhuman (in my humble opinion)
>This is where morale relativists get lost, they assume because one person benefits from something his morality considers good while another considers it evil, that it's relative.
That's the very definition of (descriptive) moral relativism mate
>But at the end of the day, one guy got shit stolen from him and the other gained something. The thief still made an enemy, the thief still earned the ire of the victim and he victims family. The theif, who wouldn't steal from his own kind, simply dehumanized the victim or twisted his morality to justify him, even though the action is clearly bad, especially for the majority of those affected. You don't need a gods divine law to come to such a conclusion.
Is stealing from a murderer bad? How far does your (((humanisation))) go?
>Besides, Abrahamic religions still pull the same shit, purge the heretic for he is not one of us, god's morales don't apply here!
Some people are not us. Get over it globalist shit
>>80539796
Great argument anon! Many people believe in a god, therefore it is so! You changed my opinion!
>>80549841
then god is evil
>>80549887
>every choice you make is between good and evil
Absolute nonsense.
>>80550044
>meaningful good
Straw man. Question is not about if good has meaning or not.
i want to believe
If there is a God, he has given up on us.
>>80551170
If good had no meaning then arguing over goodness's relation to God would also be meaningless, which would render the "logical problem of evil" argument against God also meaningless. If you want to destroy your own argument, go for it senpai.
>>80550879
Without our freedom to sentiently choose our moral behaviour, doing good would be meaningless
>>80551312
Or alternatively you're just a pessimistic loser.
>>80551170
>then god is evil
we cant comprehend God, we dont know his end game
>>80551240
Just do it anon
>>80550677
Qek is geometry, as I said earlier. God can only be experienced in the abstract.
>>80551507
physically cant
>>80551589
You must not be a scientist.
>>80551589
>physically can't
It's not a matter of physicality. Belief is a mental state. Unless you believe mental states are physical states in which case let me introduce you to my good friends "intentionality" and "qualia".
>>80551589
Keep trying
>>80551705
Not mental. You can convince yourself and others of anything you want. What matters is the heart.
>>80540342
Burn the heretics that think otherwise, in hell they will have to experience race mixing, feminism, communism and LGBT pride parades every single day for all eternity, God commands it
>>80551802
>what matters is the heart
I hate people so much.
>>80551703
i have a biology degree :^)
>>80551705
if you want to get into the semantics of it then sure. i cant achieve the mental state of belief.
>>80551782
thinking about going to church one sunday and just hoping something happens.
>>80551589
Can you convince yourself that God doesn't exist? How, and how does one define god? When it comes down to it, the word "God" is only a placeholder for a concept that mortal minds cannot grasp.
>>80551945
You can achieve any state of belief that is conceivable. A belief that there may be a Creator and that the Creator in question has certain qualities is completely conceivable. Therefore saying "I can't" is a falsity.
The only logical reaction to godlessness is nihilism. Since I choose to believe in a deity I can avoid nihilism. Just that simple
>>80551945
>i cant achieve the mental state of belief.
You can achieve any mental state you desire 2bh
Just takes practice
>thinking about going to church one sunday and just hoping something happens.
Read the Gospel first. The Churches have become Humanistic shitholes :'^) devoid of supernatural faith
>>80552015
yeah ive done a pretty god job of convincing myself god doesnt existence throughout my 22 years of existence.
>>80552117
sure i know its within the realms of possibility, im just having a very hard time reaching that stage, or coming anywhere close to it.
>>80552216
okay m8
>>80551945
If you had gone into a harder science, you would know about tolerances. When a part is machined, it will have a tolerance of +- 2 nanometers, if it's a watch part. But a perfect shape can only exist in the abstract. Hence Plato's forms.
>>80552408
It's not fundamentally different from any of your other beliefs about anything else. I really don't sympathize.
>>80552408
I'm 23, my m8. I've only come to believe again in God about year ago
So if I could do it. So can you
Quiet your mind completely. And then begin reading the Gospel one chapter at a time
>>80552408
What, specifically, is your reasoning? Do you think God is only good? Not at all. My definition of God encompasses all things, both good and evil.
>>80551345
>if good has no meaning then arguing over goodness' relation to god would be meaningless
I didn't say good has no meaning, but the notion of evil having to exist for meaningful good is again, nonsense.
>>80552879
No meaningful good could exist if we didn't have a sentient choice in the matter
>>80552879
Something without the quality of being meaningful is meaningless. The entire argument impinges on the terms in question bearing meaning.
>the notion of evil having to exist for meaningful good is again, nonsense
More like that assertion is nonsense. It's explained why evil is necessary in that very image. If choices can't even possibly be made, you're not dealing with anything with a will - you're dealing with deterministic objects to which the terms "good" and "evil" cannot even possibly be applied. You can't call a pebble that gets moved by the tide "good" or "evil" for having been moved. It's a fucking pebble.
>>80552782
my reasoning is i find it hard to believe in metaphysical beings and even if i did there are thousands and thousands of religions throughout history i dont see how you could favour one over the other. even if there was a god, i find it more likely that he did not interact with this world in the form of some kind of divine messenger and that no humans on earth actually understand him.
>>80552630
what exactly is the gospel? a certain section of the bible?
>>80552171
>I lie to myself because reality is too harsh.
He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss also gazes into you.
>>80551110
>Universal is not objective
if every human has a set number of universal concepts of bad is it not fact that humanity considers X bad?
>Why is social cohesion objectively good
Because that's how humans work. There is a reason solitary confinement drives people insane.
>Empathy does not override reality
Not sure what you mean, empathy is the basis in which humanity fundamentally understands the consequences and action has another person.
Sociopaths only learn that certain behaviors lead to being attacked or imprisoned.
>That's the very definition of morale relativism.
Yes, that's why I said what they believe?
>Is stealing from a murderer bad
Humans don't have a universal standard of punishment, if you're an eye for an eye jew sure, you compartmentalize the murderer from empathetic judgement, he's already become inhuman so you have the right to beat him down.
That doesn't make the skeleton of human morality any less tangible.
You see you think I'm trying to argue for morale relativism, I'm arguing that there is a core human morality inherent to us as a species, you're arguing that god defined morality. I believe that humanity come to the conclusion of morale law to exist as a set of tribes and by extension civilization, you believe humanity would just go apeshit and murder everyone without god threatening eternal hellfire.
>>80553347
>I find it more likely that he did not interact with this world in the form of some kind of divine messenger and that no humans on earth actually understand him.
Why would He not interact with the most interesting part of His creation?
Everything else is just rocks and shit
>>80553048
Free will does not necessitate evil nor does it detract from good.
>>80541275
>if God is real then why isn't there a utopia on earth
>checkmate theists
Wew lad
>>80553550
How can you choose good over something else, if good is all there is, and there is no evil?
>>80553454
>lie
It is self evident. No lie necessary. Plus it's pragmatic. Atheism is not only foolish but you have to ignore logic to even be a useful human being. Deism is simply the smartest decision since it is more unassailable than atheismand far more useful
>>80553454
>quoting the crippled Super Man
Nihilism isn't "reality" anymore than God is
>>80553550
>free will does not necessitate evil
No, it necessitates evil *as a real possibility*. One must be able to make any choice for a will to exist/be free, and that includes evil ones. A world can exist in which every will only makes good choices. A world can ALSO exist in which every will only makes evil choices. But the *POSSIBILITY* for other decisions must be absolutely real and not subject to determinism outside the will.
>>80553855
I could care less if you want to be intellectually dishonest with yourself. You are most likely self aware of your circular logic so I will leave you with your unassailable deism.
>>80553498
>if every human has a set number of universal concepts of bad is it not fact that humanity considers X bad?
It's not a fact that the collectively human conception of bad is objectively bad
You could theoretical convince everyone on earth to kill themselves, that doesn't mean it's an objectively good idea
People agreeing on something does not make that something factually correct
>Because that's how humans work. There is a reason solitary confinement drives people insane.
That's not how humans HAVE to work though. Some people survive with their sanity intact away from society and civilisation
(*They do have to live in it for a while though, until they become fully developed)
>>Empathy does not override reality
>Not sure what you mean, empathy is the basis in which humanity fundamentally understands the consequences and action has another person.
But not necessarily an accurate understanding of the consequences of that action
Empathy can backfire (cf. Stockholm Syndrome)
[1]
I do think there may be a superior force, but definetely not the Judeo-Christian god. It may be just a blob that just created us, he doesn't even give a fuck about us tbqh.
t. fedora man
>>80553498
>Sociopaths only learn that certain behaviors lead to being attacked or imprisoned.
Which is a perfectly valid observation to make. But you're right that it's incomplete
>Humans don't have a universal standard of punishment, if you're an eye for an eye jew sure, you compartmentalize the murderer from empathetic judgement, he's already become inhuman so you have the right to beat him down.
Some people don't deserve as much empathy, that's all I'm saying
As I Christian, I consider that they all deserve love equally. But the love of God is a whole different ballgame than empathy and the act of empathising
>You see you think I'm trying to argue for morale relativism, I'm arguing that there is a core human morality inherent to us as a species, you're arguing that god defined morality. I believe that humanity come to the conclusion of morale law to exist as a set of tribes and by extension civilization, you believe humanity would just go apeshit and murder everyone without god threatening eternal hellfire.
Correct, this is what we each believe
>>80539487
Because they don't believe in god.
>>80555086
>As a* Christian
>>80555378
>Affirming the consequent
>>80546278
Tacitus wrote about Jesus
>>80554094
I was trying to think of an analogy, but its actually more complex than it seems.
It always becomes subject to greater good and lesser good, which necessitates a scale, and wherever the scale ends in lesser good that becomes the baseline for evil.
But it does bring up another interesting point about Christian heaven. If no evil exists in heaven, does no one in heaven have free will?
Because there is no proof.
>>80556081
Jesus talk about heaven, God is going to transform us in something else
>>80554094
That is it doesn't necessitate evil, but its always a possible outcome.
Road to hell paved with good intentions type thing.
>>80556081
There's no such things as greater and lesser goods and evils. There is good and evil period. There are not "degrees" of good and evil.
I don't speculate about heaven - it's not relevant to me really.
>>80556081
>If no evil exists in heaven, does no one in heaven have free will?
Only people who have been deemed good go to heaven :^)
>>80540328
Because if you accept something without a proof, you HAVE to accept anything that anyone tells you. It's all about logic.
Something exists with no evidence = Literally everything exists without a proof. Unicors, space babies etc. If you want to be consistent and follow LOGIC you either have to deny the existence of god or admit that we can say nothing about the world, because everything is possible. In that scenario every fag is right because he said so. No proofs needed.
>>80556280
Evil must be a possible outcome for free will to exist. Yes. That's the crux of the lpoe counterargument utilizing free will.
>>80556326
>no varying degrees of good and evil. Everything is black and white.
I'll agree to disagree with that one.
>>80547872
If he was so smart how come he let the Jews kill him? This entire religion is a damage control of defeated subhumans desu.
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/19322/19322-h/19322-h.htm#THE_ANTICHRIST
>>80556514
That's the conclusion any Christian reaches - given you aren't a Christian, you're not necessarily going to see things that way. The existence of differing beliefs in regard to the topic doesn't validate or invalidate either of our positions.
>>80556605
A fucking Electrode.
>>80556386
>Because if you accept something without a proof, you HAVE to accept anything that anyone tells you. It's all about logic.
Only a being such as God, the absolute creator of humanity, and logic, could suspend logic m9
Your argument does not follow
I was atheist until I experienced god.
now im not.
The end.
>Parents weren't religious
>You were born
>Your life sucks, blame god
This is the typical atheist
Why can't theists allow themselves to deny God?
>>80556788
you cant deny something so obvious
>>80556767
Most Atheists have religious parents.
