Is taxation theft?
I don't know. Maybe.
One thing is certain though: It's something you have to accept to a certain degree if you want at least a little bit of stability.
Yes and no
>>80510777
No, but it's inefficiently managed.
>>80510777
It can become theft. Is it generally theft no. It pays jose to fill potholes so you don't ruin the tires on your 2016 ford taurus
>>80510777
yes, but it is then used by a statist as party favors, or to pay for security, as opposed to much worse alternatives.
It doesn't have to be, but the current system in the west basically is.
Don't personally think so, but I can see how it should be something you agree to.
But basic things you should pay for (as some are included in taxes they don't think of, roads, paths, garbage collection etc.)
>>80510777
It is, the real question is: is it justifiable?
Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.
>>80511036
>>80511250
it either is or it isn't, in principle.
what is done with the money afterward does not change the fact that it is taken by force, up to and including lethal force. that is theft, period.
you are worse than those who say "no." they are at least either ignorant or lying. you judge the nature of things based on eventualities that have no essential connection to them.
>>80510777
not an argument
>>80510777
To a certain degree, taxation is necessary for maintaining infrastructure and government.
However, the taxation that is going on right now in the US is completely excessive and is essentially theft.
The premise of taxation isn't theft
The way it's currently employed however, is theft.
>>80511557
justifiable, but by whom? i remind you that god has already condemned it.
>15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
>>80511646
>for maintaining infrastructure
no it isn't. sell the assets to someone and they will operate it, at profit. there is no public utility that did not operate like this prior to government monopoly.
>for maintaining government
this is a vacuous statement. pirates steal to maintain themselves, too.
>>80511454
what you really mean is, even if taxation is always theft, you just wouldn't care if it didn't affect you as badly as it does today. well why don't you just buy more money, then?
you don't actually know what "normal" is for the state and its taxation, you're just assigning "tax my neighbors but not me" the label of normal ex post facto.
It's definitely theft, although tariffs or a single national sales tax only would be preferable.
>>80510941
>It's something you have to accept to a certain degree if you want at least a little bit of stability.
that sounds like a threat.
>>80511886
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Render_unto_Caesar
Generally speaking, taxes on certain goods or services are not, in that they do not mandate participation. Taxes on income and general earnings, however, are.
A better solution to taxation would be tariffs on imported goods and possibly on interstate commerce. The first step towards reform, though, must come in the way of budgetary reductions so that it's not necessary to produce the same revenue in taxes as are currently being collected.
>hugging is not sympathizing
>>80512393
>although tariffs or a single national sales tax only would be preferable
That's not an argument. I'm not disagreeing, but why do you think this is the case?
>>80512819
Wrong thread, bud.
>>80511886
By you, the taxpayer. We should decide what our tax dollars go through.
sadly, the current system is far from what this simple premise is, and government is no longer he servant of the people, but its overlord.
yeah, but it's not an effective argument by itself
instead it's better to argue that the government, despite pretentions of "democracy", is not us. it's better to show examples of tax money being misdirected or stolen. it's better to show that market economics WORKS BETTER to provide all services instead of having money forcibly taken to "help everybody"
I think spamming the phrase "taxation is theft" to the point that the IDEA is well known is good. every time the news reports on government corruption, it reinforces that taxation is theft, and makes it more accepted. but the phrase by itself will not convince someone who believes otherwise
Yes, it is a group of people asking politely for your money, then taking it at gun point if you don't comply. The only difference is that we've set apart the government as one group that's allowed to do this, because they (ideally) direct that money into services that benefit the nation.
>>80511590
>what is done with the money afterward does not change the fact that it is taken by force, up to and including lethal force. that is theft, period.
/Thread
All have to agree that this is theft, right?
>passive agressive Washington, D.C.
>>80510777
Technically: yes. But this generally comes from libertarians or ancaps that legitimately believe that the free market is free from coercion. When you realize that a great many things in life are technically theft when you break it all down, life gets less simple. Theft and indeed the free market are legally sanctioned theft.
>>80510777
>I want free shit: The Post
>>80513458
you sound like a NAPpy headed ho
I'm NAPpy too
>>80514079
>>>80513458 (You)
>you sound like a NAPpy headed ho
What??
>>80510777
Yes. The only way it isn't theft is if the government can be said to own all land within the country, and therefore charges rent in exchange for services.
>>80511750
I was forming my response to this thread but then I found your post.
>>80514402
non aggression principle
>>80510777
It's legalized plunder.
Only a cucked people would willingly be jewed like this.
>>80510777
Only if you're being denied the services tax is supposed to provide.
Otherwise its much closer to being extortion.
If you wish to view it as a crime.
>>80510777
>>80510777
no. the stte defacto owns all land. tax is rent. et policy is to keep it low so you attract more and higher quality renters. retendig services are offerred in exchagne just raises taxes and delivers no service or sometimes service so bad you wish it wasnt offered eg. schooling or mandatory healthcare
Certain types, sure.
VAT or any other sort of sale's tax, definitely so.
In a libertarian society, who takes care of the roads?
>>80510777
Theft is taking something you don't have the right to take. The state has the right to tax. So no.
Taxation is a necessary price to pay for living in a region controlled by a governing body. If you do not like your governing body, then yes, it might feel like theft. You should ensure that you live in a region with a governing body you like to minimize that.
Also, it might feel like theft when the money doesn't go where you want it to go. That's why I think it's necessary to remodel our taxation programs and allow people to choose where their tax money will go to when they fill out their taxes yearly.
Kind of like the Humble Bundle Sale business model, when you pay your money you should have the option to allocate a different percentage of your money to different areas like education, infrastructure, health, social welfare programs, etc. That way a country could truly develop the way people want it to develop.
>>80515933
explain why
>>80515982
in caliornia right nw who takes care of the roads? or thr murders? or the drugs? we have the highet taxes in the union. it didnt help em do anything
>>80515982
wow i hate libertarians now
>>80516677
You have something to sell - maybe you've made it yourself, or you bought it yourself. You're selling it for £10.
I have £10. I go to buy your object, no coercion on either side. We almost exchange £10 for object when someone else - not someone who made or previously bought or even ever owned the object, and certainly not someone who owns my £10 - sprints up to us and demands £2.
They back their claim up with menaces, the ability of arrest and further extraction of money, and ultimately if they encounter continuous defiance, imprisonment and even physical violence or death.
That is 100% mafia behaviour.
>>80517122
I still think if it were a crime it would be more like extortion.
The governments is in on it with the merchants.
They could sell it to you without the sales tax but they don't.
The same with PAYE and similar income based taxes.
But if someone successfully evades the tax but enjoys the services that tax would provide is that person not a thief?
