Most of them don't even have an income to pay taxes one.
Seriously though. How do libertarians expected police forces, firefighters, public services, public works, transportation, and roads to be built without taxation.
Don't say that private individuals will do it. The only roads that would get built by corporations are highways and airport runways. Residential roads would never get built. I also don't want to have corporation funded police.
>>80350502
I don't actually mind paying taxes for those services. As long as I get my money's worth.
because they get spent on N I G G E R S
>>80350502
Libertarians believe in taxation for essential government services. Libertarians recognize the necessity of a state and states can't run without taxes.
You may be thinking of anarcho-capitalists.
>>80350798
I hear regular libertarians often complaining about taxation. There definition of necessary is also sometimes messed up. There are quite a few who don't believe emergency services or police as necessary services.
>>80350502
>the only roads that would get built by corporations
>corporation funded police
Are you doing that on purpose? are you pretending to not know the difference between a private business and a corporation?
Or do you actually think that corporations would even exist in a libertarian/anarco-capitialist society?
>>80350562
>as long as I get my moneys worth
you greedy fuck, this isnt walmart thats not how it works
>>80350626
you mean niggers m80? lol are you afraid to type that out in one line? will the paddy wagon come get you?
>>80351923
>the difference between a private business and a corporation?
What's the difference other than scale?
>>80351989
The truth is most of us get more than our moneys worth with taxes.
>>80350502
>Most don't even have income to pay taxes
Reminder that 45% of the country doesn't even pay income tax and they most certainly almost all vote Democrat. Also, learn the difference between a libertarian and an anarchist.
>>80351295
Because we don't like the current form of taxation you fucking leaf.
I shouldn't pay a larger percentage of my income because some poorfag wants a new pair of jordans or because the government wants to dump funding into a shitty wind farm.
>>80351923
Roads would still be built by the state in a Libertarian society if people vote to pay for it. Public roads have existed before Karl Marx was even a sperm cell in his father's nutsack so I really hate it when statist retards call any government service socialist as if it supports their retarded argument
Taking from the poor to give to the rich...i wonder
>>80352336
How do the rich take from the poor? I'll wait
>>80351295
Everybody hates taxes, anon. Personally I only believe in a night watchman state where national defense, courts, and police are government services.
>>80352056
One is subsidized by and works with the state to maximise profits and monopolise the market by pushing out competition though government regulation.
The other doesn't do any of that and operates normally through voluntary means.
Libertarians/AnCaps don't believe that corporations should exist because they capitalise on state coercion to make profits instead of providing quality goods and services to consumers and workers.
>>80350502
>it's an anti-libertarian thread
I can't wait until Trump loses so the board can go back to normal
>>80352390
The rich write laws that benefit them. The judicial system is set up so that who-ever has enough money can get out of any crime. The tax code is set up so that rich people have tons of deductions and loopholes which allow them to pay much less tax compared to the poor.
>>80350502
>Why do liberals love taxation so much
>Most of them don't even have an income to pay taxes on.
Fixed that for you. Rest of your question is irrelevant because demand will create a way to achieve a desired result in a free market. Why do you think there wont be smaller road building companies specialised in cheaper/smaller residential roads that people can pay for themselves for example?
>>80352263
>if people vote to pay for it
Why vote? If it's in the best interest for the people to have roads, then they will get built either through private or public means. It will happen regardless.
Supply and demand.
>>80352734
How would private businesses fund roads?
>>80353406
read this >>80353392
>>80353389
Overall liberal states have higher income and contribute more federal taxes than they take out compared to conservative states. This is still true when you control for the "blacks"
>>80353392
Just because it's in the best interest in people doesn't mean they will do. Studies show that giving a universal basic income is better than welfare programs, but people will never support the former over the latter. People vote for more cheap immigrant labor to come in to the country. That isn't in their best interest.
Labels like ''libertarian'' are just that, labels.
The way I see it's just a label people pick up just because they want a smaller government, less taxes and less laws. Once that is achieved I can guarantee that they will not ask for even less of a government and even less taxes, they'll just drop the label.
Debating over who would build roads in an anarchist society is just retarded when the goal of libertarians is just to end the welfare state, stop paying billions for useless shit like government funded gender studies, government spending money on ''art'' like women who masturbate with crosses etc.
Libertarianism is just a response to the batshit insane shit that is happening right now.
>>80352044
don't forget to keep your hands visible next traffic stop
>>80353463
I dont know the details of the situation in America but I am mainly talking about the Bernie crowd that basically wants to bankrupt anyone making more than mininum wage to pay for gibs me dats like "free" college", "free" healthcare" and that sort of shit while the majority of these people are in college and dont even have a parttime job or any work experience whatsoever
>>80351923
No your right, a single monopoly of q corporation will exist, and libertarians will have the communist paradise they dont have the balls to admit to.
>>80350502
what about teh roadssssss
>>80353964
Im aussie i get that cheap edu and health, im not bankrupt, i pay taxes.
Liberal/conservatives are fucking it all up.
>>80350502
DO YOU SUPPORT ME GETTING SHOT??
>>80353582
If people want to have roads built then they will be built. So long as they have the resources to do so and it isn't too expensive, they will be built.
If there is a demand to build roads in the market, then there will eventually be business men willing to compete to supply that demand at a reasonable price. This fundamental economical principal doesn't not apply just because you're building roads.
>>80354355
What's even more ironic is that the dude is dutch. The entire nation is pretty much a working welfare program.
>>80354443
>So long as they have the resources to do so and it isn't too expensive, they will be built.
Most infrastructure is too expensive to be built without the government.
>If there is a demand to build roads in the market, then there will eventually be business men willing to compete to supply that demand at a reasonable price. This fundamental economical principal doesn't not apply just because you're building roads.
Sure maybe highways. Residential roads will not get built. Why would they. They are too expensive for residents to build and corporations don't benefit from building them. We still need goods so it's not like we can refuse to purchase shit until roads are built.
>>80350502
OP it's something you'll understand when you DO pay taxes.
You'll quickly discover that that missing $113.24 from your paycheck, the one paying mostly for baby boomer programs? Yeah, you can think of much better uses for it.
>>80354157
How will monopolise form is nobody is stopping you from stating a business in any field you choose and nobody is forcing you to buy from anyone?
>>80350502
Only cucks like taxation.
>>80353366
This autism still doesn't negate the fact that the wealthy still pay over 70% of the nation's tax revenue while the poor pay no income tax at all.
Whining about a rich person getting to keep more of their own money is also fucking stupid
>>80354355
Congratulations buddy. Meanwhile the scandinavian countries are privatising a lot of government services because they can no longer pay for them without ruining the country with even higher taxes. """free"""" shit payed for by taxation means immigrants will want to come to your country to claim gibs me dats. My guess is that this isnt really the case in your country due to tight border control? My country doesnt do this though...
>Liberal/conservatives are fucking it all up.
What are they fucking up and how? Genuinly want to know this.
>>80350502
>Don't say that private individuals will do it.
This is exactly how it would work faggot. You can't just say 'the best refutation of my point is invalid because I say so'
>>80354559
Yes, and I am against that. Our tax rates are ridiculous. You think it's logical to punish people for hard work by taking more of their income the more they earn?
>>80352432
What about firefighters?
>>80350502
>Don't say that private individuals will do it.
But that's who does it right now - the government takes the tax money and goes to a private contractor to do the work.
What do you think those firms would do when they're left without public contracts? Twiddle their thumbs, or find a way to sell their service directly to the individuals who use it?
remind me again why private companies can't perform these functions?
>>80350502
I see it mostly as a wish to know all the budget details.
"That`s not tax, that payment for military-education-socsec-border.defence-etc."
I think it would be really useful to allow people to subscribe to this kind of taxation plans, where they know whom are they paying and for what.
Because modern politics is all about throwing shit at eachother about muh racism and muh weak energy, without any factual parts of the capmaigning.
Actually Trump could use this with all his financial background.
"This is the paycheck you pay now - this is the paycheck you will pay under hillary - this is the paycheck you will pay under my presidency".
GOP actually should`ve done this first time they heard about obongocare. Now they`d have the tool to bash him for overinflated spending. And would have votes of all the lefties youth. Because all of them atheists are not about SJW or cultural marxism. They are actually about to look smarter than other people and to think, that they are smarter. And if you give them obongos financial disaster description, that looks smart, then the sect takes their favorite bait like there`s no tomorrow.
>>80350502
There is a difference between income taxes and sales taxes/tariffs.
Reminder that income taxes wasn't necessary before the federal reserve came into existence.
>>80350502
Ya god damn non working burger.
25% of my income goes to taxes. every. paycheck.
It's more than I pay for rent, car insurance, phone and internet, all of which I pay taxes on as well.
You're the one who doesn't have income OP.
>>80350502
actually libertarians don't oppose taxes as long as they're spent on protecting the citizens from foreign and domestic threats. libertarians are against taxation as redistribution of wealth
>>80357358
Income tax is necessary for the large expenditures we have. Regardless of federal reserve. There's no way we can have the infrastructure, military, and welfare we have without income tax.
>>80352056
Accountability.
>>80353366
which boggles my mind because poor people have way more time on their hands to lobby and goto council meetings etc
>>80354877
>the poor pay no income tax at all
they still pay a shitload of taxes just by purchasing something in a store. or are you naive enough to believe that the companies deduct the taxes from their profits?
>>80360761
taxes by definition are redistribution of wealth, stupid
>>80361483
stop being autistic. you know what I meant.
>>80361136
Lol. The only reasons lobbies work is because of money. Poor people don't have money to bribe politicians.
>>80361483
So is paying at a store redistribution of wealth?
>>80350502
>>80350502
>begins with ad him
>argument obvious bait or stems from nigger level understanding of economics
Trash.jpg
>>80350502
>>80365923
The taxpayers do pay for the roads through the government. That's what elected officials are. You really think roads would get built with a direct democracy.
>>80366363
who said shit about direct democracy? the private construction workers would make the road and the person using that road would pay for driving on them. If the road is shit then the private owner wont drive on them and wont pay for it.
Not a libertarian, but for me it'5s because I don't get to decide on how the money taken from me is spent. Firefighters, roads, etc is fine, but I don't want half of my labor siphoned away to feed third world filth or pay some corrupt politician's salary.
>>80367050
>the private construction workers would make the road
with what money? the only people with enough money to build road networks are governments and corporations.
> If the road is shit then the private owner wont drive on them and wont pay for it.
They will if it's their only choice.
>>80367617
That's why there are elections. If you don't like it you could just leave the country and find a place that wont make you pay tax.
>>80350502
Because they're tsundere
>>80367845
>the only people with enough money to build road networks are governments
And where do governments get that money from?
>>80367949
>find a place that wont make you pay tax.
Like where?
>>80352100
The Fuck? No, we don't
>>80368182
>being this pedantic
Taxpayers. The thing is without a government there is no way taxpayers would be able to organize to spend the money on their own. And in the off chance they do that organization would probably just be another government.
>>80368199
Somalia.
>>80367949
Yeah, but even if I did that I would still be forced into buying water and power under threat of prison anyway, so what would really be the point?
That's the real problem, government-enforced bottom lines. They're basically the fucking mafia.
>>80368295
Yes we do. Unless you are paying 100k plus in taxes a year you probably are. Average american salary is 50k. At 30% tax rate that's 15k a year. That's nowhere near enough to cover the roads you drive on, the police that look after your neighborhood, the military that defends you, the infrastructure you use, public schools if you have kids, subsidies which allow for low food prices, etc.
>>80368464
>Yeah, but even if I did that I would still be forced into buying water and power under threat of prison anyway, so what would really be the point?
Elect a government that doesn't do this.
>>80368314
Why not? Governments are made up of people. If people were incapable of this, governments would never manage it either.
>>80368314
>The thing is without a government there is no way taxpayers would be able to organize to spend the money on their own.
>this is what statists actually believe
can you tell me which is the government that organized the creation and maintenance of this free, anonymous message board
>>80368770
>not 'no dogs no masters'
>>80360886
Why don't you let the states handle welfare? I don't understand why so many Americans insist on making the federal government do everything.
I want more local control in Denmark so we can hold politicians accountable. I don't even want to think about how shitty our healthcare would be if it was run by the EU.
>>80350502
Roads are paid by gas tax and police are paid by property tax. These are use taxes not income taxes.
Next time you post, please be less retarded.
>>80368770
>can you tell me which is the government that organized the creation and maintenance of this free, anonymous message board
You mean the ones that laid trans-atlantic cables spent billions on satellites and internet development so we could use this site? Humans have been around 100k-250k years. Civilization is at most 10k years old. It took 90% of the time we have been here to develop organization needed for civilization. Obviously people aren't that good at organizing from scratch.
>>80368919
>Why don't you let the states handle welfare?
If they did all the Southern states would be fucked. It's ironic because in America all the people asking for state run welfare live in states that would probably have the shittiest systems.
>>80369018
Yeah look at how shitty the roads are. It's because gas tax isn't enough. Income tax is needed because it is the only way to generate the revenue needed for our large government expenditure.
>>80369240
Instead of leeching off other states they'd have to man the fuck up.
They are the size of a country, like I give a fuck about Greece either.
Taxation that is more than necessary is theft. Most libertarians believe in some taxes, but only the ones that are absolutely necessary.
>>80354652
To get to those highways, you bozo?
Also, what's this worthless spiel about the necessity of roads in the first place? Can somebody tell me why this sacred cow is so valued to people and how it's so impossible that if it's that necessary that absolutely nobody could possibly make a profit off of it?
>>80369135
>trans-atlantic cables
usually joint projects by telecommunication companies
>satellites
again usually privately owned
>>80368149
I like that one, thanks you slimy redcoat ;)
>>80370122
>make a profit off of it?
That's the problem. Some services are needed that are not profit driven. Without government funded courts we would probably have private ones, but I don't want a privately owned court driven by profits. At the same time I don't want to pay a new fee every time I use a different road. Also since roads are so vital a company that owns them could charge you whatever they want. You either have to pay or get fucked.
95% of taxes go to bullshit wealth redistribution
>>80374078
roads are profit driven.
no one has said that there will be a privatized jurisdiction department.
>don't want to pay a new fee every time I use a different road.
no you would rather pay for all the roads in america than those few you use yourself.
>Also since roads are so vital a company that owns them could charge you whatever they want.
rofl wat. if that is true, then why isn't food much more expensive then what it is now. any business what so ever.
>>80374554
>no you would rather pay for all the roads in america than those few you use yourself.
Yeah. Because it's cheaper.
>rofl wat. if that is true, then why isn't food much more expensive then what it is now. any business what so ever.
Because you can't sell shit if all your customers are dead. Also food is a necessity. Starving populace is not good for business goy. It's usually how revolutions start.
>>80374976
its cheaper paying, what is it, 5-10% taxes throughout your life than paying 2-3 dollars for 10km of road?
Like I said, you could take the example of any business. Competing businesses will compete, believe it or not, for customers.
>>80350502
>Seriously though. How do libertarians expected police forces, firefighters, public services, public works, transportation, and roads to be built without taxation.
None of those things have to be publicly funded.
>Residential roads would never get built.
Residential streets could be paid by communities paying a annual due at a negotiable amount to pay specifically for the roads.
>I also don't want to have corporation funded police.
Privatley funded police do not necessarily have to be funded by corporations after all not only are there not corporations everywhere but a corporation would not have any jurisdiction over any place that did not agree to allow them it.
A local government could pay for a private police force (libertarians are generally okay with small government), also a volunteer police force was the go to means of peacekeeping for over a century in america.
>>80375642
>2-3 dollars for 10km of road?
Lets calculate that
Average miles driven by an American per year. 135000 miles=21700km
At 2 per 10km this is about 2170 dollars. That's just for roads.That's about 5% anyways of the average american income.
>>80377504
> How do libertarians expected police forces, firefighters,
>None of those things have to be publicly funded.
WEW
>>80354157
Corporations often require government advantages to get as big as they do.
Modern companies can afford to make extremely high risk high reward moves because they know that at a certain point they become to big to fail and if their move ends in bankruptcy the government will step in to bail them out since their disolvment would mean possibly millions of people out of jobs.
Not only that but numerous regulations that currently exist are actually beneficial to megacorps because it creates a significant barrier for entry into the market that most small businesses cannot pass therefore limiting the megacorps competition to only a select number of other megacorps.
A an cap or libertarian society would pull the safety net out from under them and knock down the barrier to entry which is the last thing anyone in a large corporation would want.
>>80377812
Funny how people managed to do those things before taxes huh?
>>80368770
The FBI
>>80378156
When?
Most major civilizations collected taxes specifically to build roads. Also police forces are a modern invention. They didn't exist before.
>>80374078
>At the same time I don't want to pay a new fee every time I use a different road. Also since roads
You wouldn't have to
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVYnQyZWlik
>>80378454
>>80378473
>When?
Bucket brigades, volunteer police forces, militias, privately funded roads.
Do I need to continue?
>>80350502
Income tax is theft. The government can make enough money by levying tariffs on countries that are dumping goods.
>>80378531
>>80378642
You need to start before you continue.
>>80378813
You said that it is somehow impossible to put out fires or enforce laws without taxes I posted examples or ways they can, what is your rebuttal?
>>80378765
What is this supposed to convey?
>>80350562
>As long as I get my money's worth.
You're such a god damn jew
>>80378984
>What is this supposed to convey?
Lolbertarians BTFO! That's what.
>>80379097
Okay but was it a response to the video or just just general memeing?
>>80378984
Yeah because if my house is on fire I can always looks forward to a bucket brigade.
>>80379288
>>80379413
Do you have a bucket brigade in your neighborhood? If no than of course you wouldn't be able to rely on a group that doesn't exist but if you had no city firefighters it would be a plausible alternative, which is what you asked for alternatives.
You could also have a privately funded fire department.
>>80379546
What the fuck? I hate rights now!
>>80350502
Because public sector is inferior to private sector
>an organisation of elites steals most of your money to spend on wars and poor people and drunk eurocrats
>complaining makes you the bad guy
>>80379680
IS A MAN NOT ENTITLED TO THE SWEAT OF HIS BROW?
>>80380601
So you don't actually have anything to say anymore is that how I should interpret this?
>>80351923
>do you actually think that corporations would even exist in a libertarian/anarco-capitialist society
do you think they exist now?
have you ever met one?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_fiction#Corporate_personhood
>>80377691
Dude... that was an example. I'm sure he wasnt using those figures literally.
>>80380788
>>80381190
Those figures were on the low end of what I would expect from private roads. So it's actually a pretty good estimate.
>>80381321
What exactly is so horrible about child labor anyway?
A lot of kids are forced to work by their parents during the summer anyway all child labor laws accomplish is denying them a actual wage or the opportunity to put that job on their resumes.
>>80366363
>You really think roads would get built with a direct democracy.
A local government is just a committee, a neighborhood committee is also a committee, if one committee can hire a company to build a road why would it be impossible for the other one to do so?
The main difference is that if you can be part of the committee that decides that hires the company you can have a say in what company gets hired and how your money is spent.
Elected representatives are mostly a relic of a time before electronic communication.
>>80379413
If you're such as ass that your neighbors wont help you out of a fire, maybe you just suck.
If this thread is any indication, I'd let your house burn down, after all it's not really my problem.
>>80381407
>t. transportation engineer
Oh, now it makes sense, you're worried you'll be outta a cush gubmint job.
>>80381629
>What exactly is so horrible about child labor anyway?
>A lot of kids are forced to work by their parents during the summer anyway all child labor laws accomplish is denying them a actual wage or the opportunity to put that job on their resumes.
WEW LAD. I assume you are fine with child prostitution.
>>80383005
>I assume you are fine with child prostitution.
No
Now answer my question
>>80383431
Why aren't you fine with child prostitution. Also what was the question?
>>80351295
We dont want to pay taxes on shit like the property we own or our income. The fact that we get taxed on the money we own is ludicrous. Sales tax is fine. We believe taxes should go to roads and shit not fucking wars or dindu's to support their 12 kids.
>>80383881
money we earn*
>>80383616
>Why aren't you fine with child prostitution
Kids cannot consent, and sex can be harmful to minors.
>Also what was the question?
What is wrong with kids working in the labor force and collecting a paycheck if they are already going to be made to work by their parents in the summer anyway?
>>80383941
You didn't earn that money you were granted it by a corporate person. It is technically a gift and gifts are sometimes taxable.
>>80380788
If you step outside the normal baittaking defense shit, he's got nothing to say.
The tried and true scripted rebuttals belong on reddit, where OP probably hails from.
or he's just a pic related lidel broder :-DDDDD
>>80384001
>Kids cannot consent, and sex can be harmful to minors.
Kids can't consent to sex, but they can consent to work?
>What is wrong with kids working in the labor force and collecting a paycheck if they are already going to be made to work by their parents in the summer anyway?
Depends on how young the kid is and the job. 15-16 year old working retail is fine. 11-12 year old no. 15-16 year old working coal mine is also not fine.
>>80384037
Lolz nice bait faggot.
>>80350502
>Not living close to your workspace and forcing your employer to pay you enough to live nearby
>Not wanting to only pay for when a crime actually affects you
>Not having an all inclusive insurance deal that includes firefighters
>Wanting to pay for shitty roads across thr entire cointry when you can pay a low toll pass for the roads you actually use
Statists pls.
Taxation is force and thus immoral.
>>80384087
>>80350502
Taxation is democracy tier
It sounds very good on paper but in the long run very few people benefit to the point of getting their money's worth.
>>80350502
Nobody owns you. Nobody owes you.
>>80350502
So, a libertarian walks into a bar. Sits at the table, wants to order a drink. And the bartender goes like "please leave since you are not 18 yet".
>>80384262
>Taxation is force and thus immoral.
So is the state forcing people not to rape children. Is that immoral?
It's the FEDERAL income tax that they want abolished.
>>80384499
KEK.
>>80384439
You literally are working your ass off to pay for other people's kids and to Napalm sand niggers in the middle east.
>>80384499
75% of executives and senior management that I know are libertarian.
It seems you're confusing libertarianism with communism or being progressive.
>>80381629
>>80382121
>>80380788
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb8cErokGFs
Because most, if not all government officials are limpdick leeches who spend money and legislate so poorly and inefficiently that I find their incompetence borders on malice. So my response to that is, why would I want to give these idiots any more money? Why would I willingly volunteer my money away so that they can spend it on something totally needless and unnecessary?
I understand I have to pay taxes, I'm a libertarian not an anarchist. But they should be spent on basic defense and justice, not on welfare and art school scholarships are some other arbitrary, stupid bullshit.
I cannot conceive how anyone could disagree with me, why would you willingly want YOUR earned capital spent on shit you don't want, need, or care about? That is the definition of masochism. Statists are in facts masochists, typically weak and spineless bootlickers with low T E S T.
Convince me commies, why would I willingly hand over my earned income to cocksucking suits in Washington?
>>80384529
No, the rapist doesn't own the person they are raping. The individual does however own their own person and property and intellect.
>>80350502
>Residential roads would never get built
Yes they would...
Let's say you have an apartment complex, you would contract some firm to build residential roads around and within your complex and attach it to the main roads or you wouldn't get any customers.
>>80384192
>Kids can't consent to sex
Under a certain age sex would cause injury and for a few years after that they may be physically capable but still not psychologically of dealing with it nor capable of understanding the potential risks.
The exact age of consent is a matter for communities to decide.
Mowing a lawn or working in a store doesn't hold the same risks.
>Depends on how young the kid is and the job. 15-16 year old working retail is fine. 11-12 year old no.
Why?
>15-16 year old working coal mine is also not fine.
Good thing coal mine jobs are nowhere near as common these days and that a kid wouldn't be qualified either.
>>80384961
>This man is silly therefore you are silly too!
I don't even support the libertarian party leaf.
>>80350502
By printing money
>inb4 inflation
Austrians need not apply.
your totally funding the whole system with your minor contribution.
>>80384984
>give
>volunteer
you aren't giving them your money, they are taking it from you whether you like it or not
>>80385307
sure bud
>>80384529
It violates the non-agression principle to rape someone and if that occurs you can call the private police force to deal with it. No state required. The use of force is only justified when defending yourself. Althernatively you can prevent it from happening all together through philosophy and social shaming, you don't need the state if you don't have sub 100 iq individuals.
>>80385256
Its not a man, you idiot, it's the entire 'movement' and party that is ridiculous. Just goes to show that only manchildren and autists are libertarian
>>80384438
that's disgusting.
Just another reason I would not aid you if your house was burning down.
>>80385307
>thousands of dollars
>minor
>>80385307
you could maybe buy a bomb with my lifetime contribution.
>>80384438
wow really makes you think
>>80385512
you're disgusting.
>>80384262
Exactly, do you think if the state-run firefighters just quit one day, there wouldn't be a large enough demand in the area for firefighter insurance that a firm would jump on the monopoly ASAP and then at least one more firm would jump in to take part of monopoly profits
>b-but if I don't pay for firefighter insurance they will let my house burn down
then pay the damn insurance, the only difference is the state is forcing you to pay for it, and marking up the price 10x.
>>80385481
Pretty much this.
Ancapistan is possible but only with a 100+ IQ population. Intelligent people don't need force in order to do the right thing, they have an innate sense of morality.
>>80385026
So a parent can't force their kid to get a vaccine if the kid doesn't want?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2Nad1b_3yY
>>80385364
Right, I know that, poor choice of words. Argument is still the same though. In this instance I was thinking more, in relation to the question, if I had the option to decrease or increase taxation, why would I choose (and hence volunteer) more capital from myself to the government? I should have articulated that better.
>>80385148
>11-12 year old no.
At a certain age you are too young to understand the rights you have and could be easily taken advantage of by an employer.
>The exact age of consent is a matter for communities to decide.
So if a community decides on 9 years old is that fine?
>>80385635
>>80385694
what happened? did OP get canned for posting pornography and now reincarnating as a leafs?
>>80384823
Yes, people who were born into white-collar rich families tend to be libertarian of very pro-free market. It's not a b8, m8. Even animal experiments show this tendency. If you give a subject better conditions, he gets used to it so fast that he starts to feel superior and aggressive towards others, altruism gets replaced with egoism. On human level it is usually expressed as "those people should work harder" mumble.
Thing is, people are born with extremely different conditions, genetics, social status etc. Pretty much everything you get in your life is not earned but given, meaning that it was not the expression of your free will/effort. (Country, health, parents, social status, genetics - intelligence and so on.)
Libertarian theory is born of egoism rather than a desire to efficiently regulate the society, that's it.
>>80385694
Why do you hate freedom, commie faggot? As the great Ron Paul put it, if I legalized Heroin tomorrow, would everyone in the room go out and do it? No, in fact according to statistics in countries where drugs are legalized, the consumption of said substances will go DOWN. Checkmate, Stalin.
>>80384984
Never really understood this minarchism meme. You correctly identify the state as an inefficient and malicious agency, yet in the very same post argue that this agency should be put in charge of the most important institutions of society (defense, law, etc.).
>>80385669
>intelligent people don't need force in order to do the right thing, they have an innate sense of morality.
>my face when people believe that intelligent people are intrinsically moral
>>80385707
You wouldn't, and that is the absurdity of it all. More coercion can only be a bad thing. How can limiting your options be a good thing?
>>80385978
>if you regulate the drugs, they win
>>80385669
>muh IQ
Enjoy serving your Chinese & Jewish overlords
>>80380601
>>80386186
The drug was has been a massive failure, that's an objective fact. Countries where drugs have been legalized up to some degree don't have as big of a drug problem as the US.
Also, that Trudeau quote was fake. There is no source whatsoever.
>>80352100
The parasites like you get more than what they paid for. People like us get less than what we paid for. To subsidize you. The problem is the people who take out more than they pay in.
>>80385978
This! Commies are so fucking stupid.
>>80353406
either a subscription to buy shares in the project, or by borrowing
many monuments were traditionally funded by subscriptions
>>80385669
intelligent people are amoral.
>>80386085
It's a pragmatic viewpoint above everything, we just seek to trim the fat when possible. Defense is necessary to secure a free and prosperous state, and in turn is handled by volunteers and citizens (military troops, judges, law enforcement, etc). These are not just faceless bureaucrats and politicians but loyal citizens who volunteer to serve and receive financial incentive to do so.
But I see what you're saying, that post right there is THE biggest argument between libertarians and anarchists, we could do this for hours.
>>80353366
If you accept that to be true, then why do you disagree with libertarians? If the government, and people in general, are corrupt self serving individuals who will write laws for their own interests instead of thinking about what's good for everyone, then how could you disagree with the idea of restricting the government to the absolute minimum (like what the founders wanted), so as to reduce the ability of the rich to use laws to screw over everyone else?
>implying you aren't already under them but they are also heads of state and have a monopoly on force
You'll reduce their power and be taking away their government power trip.
>>80353389
exactly, do they think building a road is an especially complicated and technical process?
it's no more complicated than a building, and private companies build those all the time
>>80384644
I'm alright with the napalming sand-niggers part.
Liberatarianism is absurd in its most right wing forms because they acknowledge that thievery has occurred, but they defend any property regardless of whether it was stolen. I can live on some land that I bought with money my evil cronyist grandfather gave me, but the government can't stop me from masturbating on the edge of my property whenever schoolchildren go by. They wish to privatize all land holdings, but do not want to privatize the responsibilities people have accepted when they moved into communities/bought property in the community.
Notice all these statists who try to argue against libertarian policies never articulate their policy to compare against. Because we all know it is infinitely worse.
>>80386640
If its entirely voluntary, then aren't you just describing one big company? Why call it a state in the first place?
Can I compete with this organization, or would your volunteers smash up my operation?
>>80350502
>>80386765
Private companies build roads all the time too.
>>80353582
>Studies show
studies have shown that people will believe anything as long as you preface it with studies have shown
>>80386086
Of course not, but they are more compassionate. Maybe ancaps would accidentally end up with a functioning voluntary communist society.
>>80353582
people will always support the former over the latter
>>80350502
>it's another libertarian roads meme
sage
>>80354157
AIDS
I
D
S
Australien Internets Dept of Shitposting
>>80386993
Studies have shown the line studies have shown is easily countered 99% of the time by acting like a vatnki during an invasion on the Crimean peninsula and demanding proofs with pictures of roosters
>>80354157
You don't have balls.
>>80353835
Libertarians want more welfare tho. Also nothing batshit insane is happening now.
>>80387047
This is the end goal when A.I can do better than the free market in catering to supply and demands.
>>80357358
>Reminder that income taxes wasn't necessary before the federal reserve came into existence
this is true, the IRS was created in the same year as the fed
>>80383005
Why wouldn't he be? A child demonstrates self-ownership over her body when she decides to use it for whatever she wants to. There could still be laws in a private society against child prostitution if the owner of that geographical area wished so.
>>80387047
>more compassionate
Not really. Being smart just intensifies your underlying behavioral characteristics. If you are nice you are nicer then a dumb person who is nice. Or at-least better able to apply it. If you are smart and immoral you are better at being immoral then a dumb immoral person.
>>80385490
>Its not a man, you idiot, it's the entire 'movement' and party that is ridiculous
I agree which is why I am not a supporter of the libertarian party, very few people that consider themselves libertarian are.
>Just goes to show that only manchildren and autists are libertarian
Can you name a objection against the maximization of personal liberty and the minimization of government oversight other than add hominems?
>At a certain age you are too young to understand the rights you have and could be easily taken advantage of by an employer.
And if that employer is their parents?
Go into any chinese restaurant and you will undoubtedly find they have their kids working in the store to some extent same is true for many family owned businesses if the kids can work there without spontaneously combusting I think it's safe to say that they won't if they work elsewhere just have the parents oversee their contract and being the ultimate arbiters of where they can and cannot work.
>So if a community decides on 9 years old is that fine?
In that unlikely scenario I would say that is a seriously fucked up community and I would not live there and people that think like me would also not live there.
If enough people left the community it would fall apart and those still left would be forced to either live by themselves in a ghost town or move someplace else where their belief is not the majority.
>>80358036
>25% of my income goes to taxes. every. paycheck.
in my country it's closer to 50%(or even more) once you factor in VAT(sales tax) and duties on fuel, alcohol, tobacco etc. but most of these are hidden, you don't get an itemized breakdown of how much fuel it cost to get a product to the store
>>80350502
private individuals would do it and we both know that
>>80386834
The state, in essence, is like a giant corporation but I think labels just argue semantics, the term state is just a term to describe what it is they do. People do in fact compete with the state in the sense they that engage in similar private initiatives. Government funds the military? I'm a private contractor with a mercenary force. Government has a judicial system with paid cops and judges? I have my own paid vigilante force/local militia. The question is the efficiency and funding of these organizations, will they live on or cease to be in the face of government competition?
>>80387475
>defending child prostitution un-ironically.
>>80387577
Shit the second half of that post was directed toward
>>80385940
>>80360761
speak for yourself
I object to any taking of my money by the threat of force
>>80360886
>Income tax is necessary for the large expenditures we have.
well there is your problem, too much expenditure
why is the givernment better at spending your money than you are?
>>80387349
Libertarians don't want more welfare leaf, hope that is b8 m8.
>>80387768
>why is the givernment better at spending your money than you are?
Because it is run by jews.
>>80350502
Take a writing/english course.
Learn your mother tongue.
Articulate your beliefs.
Try again.
Another flaw with ancap is that if you create a society that is completely moral by physically removing all people who break NAP to elsewhere, you end up basically selecting a society of people with lots of empathy and high IQ scores.
Now what is the problem? Well, outside your ancap territory there are going to be tons of low-IQ, uncompassionate people. If you create an ancap paradise, you have created a society of people who should be leaders. Not only will you find yourself busy keeping the rabble out, you will be unable to engage in globalism because the rest of the world is leaderless. These results will be dead weight losses on the economy. Assuming Ancaps are efficiency-minded, they will probably be more NRX than ancap when put into practice.
>>80387742
I'm not defending child prostitution. I think it's abhorrent and immoral. But I have no right over the body of another human being. I have no authority over deciding whether or not a kid wants to have butsecks for money. All I can do is say that I would not allow it under my private property and that I would probably move to a society that is voluntarily traditionalist and conservative and would not allow any of this.
>>80387877
Take a writing/english course.
Write short sentences.
Articulate beliefs in autistic fashion.
KEK
>>80363332
technically yes, but it's a voluntary one
>>80367617
exactly
inb4 someone tells you to just leave your own country
>>80368339
hai gais, don't fix your bloated criminal corrupt givernment, just move to a warzone, afterall, the givernment OWNS your country, not you
>>80387349
>Libertarians want more welfare tho
Great Bait Mate
>>80350502
How do YOU not hate taxation since so much of it simply gets redistributed to lazy niggers and muslims?
You do realize you're essentially paying off a population of people to NOT rob, murder, destroy, and at the same time, rape right?
That's what this welfare system is.
How does it feel to pay a mafia of violent criminals your hard earned money?
You're subjugated. Your their bitch.
>>80387899
> you end up basically selecting a society of people with lots of empathy and high IQ scores.
Once you do this literally any system of governance will succeed.
>>80369135
>Civilization is at most 10k years old
oh you poor honey chile
you should look up the younger dryas
>>80387899
But low IQ people already contribute jack shit to the world. A significant minority of them are in fact net wealth consumers!
93% of all wealth is produced by people with an IQ of 100 or above. I don't think we'll be seeing 'dead weight losses' to the economy if we wall off the idiots.
>>80385687
Not after the kid is 18+
>>80387983
>I have no authority over deciding whether or not a kid wants to have butsecks for money.
Neither does a child. A child can't give true consent.
>>80388019
>technically yes, but it's a voluntary one
Not really. I'm only paying because the oppressive state would arrest me if I just shoplifted it.
>>80388030
this is the price you pay to be safe to sit around shit posting on the internet.
>>80385958
People who believe in human beings, that don't view themselves or others as victims but as the product of their own capabilities and effort, tend to be Libertarian regardless of the situation they were born into.
>>80388165
Small hunter-gatherer packs does not constitute a civilization.
>>80387983
This is true, and this goes for child labor laws as well, the government telling people that they will protect their child FOR them is fucking retarded. If you need extra income or if your child is a lazy shit and won't work, send him to the factories, why let some cross eyed politician who can barely cum straight say "we won't let you do that, we think it's what you need". Madness.
>>80388174
> I don't think we'll be seeing 'dead weight losses' to the economy if we wall off the idiots.
Who else is going to do the shit jobs we don't want to do.
>>80388369
The price we COULD BE PAYING is deporting at gun point or hell just expending the lead into their soft daft fucking skulls and being done with it.
Your not making any sense. Criminals are hanged not paid to not commit crimes. Fucking stupid.
>>80369813
all involuntary taxation is theft
>>80378072
>creates a significant barrier for entry into the market
precisely
>>80378753
I have much less of a problem with import duties than taxes
>>80379413
why not build it out of fireproof materials?
or just create fire free zones
>>80388200
Don't dodge the question. You know i'm referring to a kid under 18.
>>80388218
They can after they express their self-ownership by the means of doing what they want with their body.
>>80388506
The people who USED to do the shit jobs-- teenagers
Alternative, robots.
>>80388523
>or just create fire free zones
That's a good point. I should also create crime-free zones and disease-free zones around my house.
>>80388543
So it's ok to have sex with a toddler? Toddlers express self-ownership based on your definition.
>>80388506
The people whose value is most closely aligned with the skill and capability that is necessary to do the shit job. And they will be paid accordingly.
400000000000000000000000000000 hours in ms paint
spread it far and wide
>>80388639
Smart teenagers are usually born to smart parents who are usually financiall well off. Therefore these kids usually don't work these shit jobs.
>>80388664
too bad you can't create a faggot free zone
>>80388776
All those people are dead.
>>80379731
it makes me laugh when teachers etc complain that "we pay taxes toooo". no shit you fucking idiots, you pay taxes from money given to you by genuine taxpayers
>>80380762
NO, SAYS THE MAN IN HOLLYWOOD!
>>80383005
oh yeah!? well you support genocide and torture and fraud
>>80388730
I would say no to that, it's an aggressive act that harms them (something tells me you can't stretch the hole without damage), so at that point it becomes a matter of legality.
>>80388822
If I did you would be violating it.
>>80387542
I thought I read somewhere that it was, though. Can't find the source now, though.
>>80384037
>a corporate person
aka a legal fiction
>>80388730
No. A toddler is the property of the parent . A toddler does not have the ability to express self-ownership over his body by running away from the parents. (The "moment" in which self-ownership is realized is when a child has the ability to run away from his owner.)
>>80388875
>well you support genocide and torture and fraud
Only genocide and torture of lol-bertarians and anarcho-cucks
>>80379068
And you're such a god dam wasteful cunt.
>>80388937
What if it was a women raping a male baby. Or say I had a small dick and used lube on a female baby.
>>80388542
I'm not dodging the question. I assumed you were intelligent enough to understand that children are incapable of making rationale life decisions. And that because children are incapable of making rationale decisions, the responsibility to ensure the well being of the child falls on the parent of the child, until the child reaches the age of 18.
>>80388867
>t. labor expert
you just keep on pretending like you're smart.
>>80388942
no, it's you. but that's ok. I know you can only project.
>>80389056
So if my toddler crawls away from me is that self-ownership. Also since the toddler is the parents property is it ok for the parent to rape it.
>>80389241
So is it ok for the parent to rape the child?
>>80389136
The point is, they don't want it and it is rape. I can't go out in the street and start raping a women while I scream "IT'S OK, YOU HAVE SELF-OWNERSHIP YOU WANT THIS HAHAHA", I would sound like a madman. It goes into consent and all that bullshit. I should have stated that in the first place.
>>80384961
libertarianism has been kike corrupted
open borders was never a libertarian ideal
>>80384984
>border on malice
hmm, I think it's past that
>why would you willingly want YOUR earned capital spent on shit you don't want, need, or care about?
if it gives you a dopamine boost and lets you virtue signal to your equally retarded friends?
>>80388867
How?
