Wouldn't it be considered as wasting money and the scientists told to get "real jobs"?
your mother's ass would
>>80345720
Libertarianism is the greatest meme ever bro!
But science doesn't need government desu
Look at Monsanto, SpaceX
>implying society isn't better off without that
>>80345761
How many blowjobs would she have to give to fund a thorium reactor?
>>80345793
only shit that has potential for future profit, not seeking discoveries
Investors. If something doesn't create any jobs and wealth then it's not worth investing in
>>80345793
Governments funds SpaceX.
>>80345793
space x is contracted by the government to do stuff
Libertarians think everything should make an immediate profit
they don't believe in Blue Sky Research regardless of all the discoveries and break throughs they make.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_skies_research
>>80345891
But the LHC hasn't given out anything profitable. The internet they invented is technically still free for all.
>>80345980
>The internet they invented
This meme needs to end.
>>80345896
But most science research is barely profitable or takes decades of research to becoming profitable. Who is going to invest in something that turns out a profit after 50 years?
In a perfect libertarian society, being an evil genius would be decriminalized. So the scientists would go and work for successful evil geniuses and science would be used to further the cause of doing evil, like it always was supposed to have been doing.
>>80345720
wealthy private investors who want to reap the benefits of scientific progress and people who are just interested in it
>>80346096
Countries with a government funded internet backbone do have way better internet than countries with privately funded internet infrastructure.
Without the government, internet is basically unusable.
>>80345720
Science in that realm of reality would involve niggers colliding two rocks together to make new rocks to study the origin of rocks.
>>80346098
Technocrats. The world is partially run by them anyways
>>80345761
Fpbp
>>80346098
m-m-m-muh free market
>>80346174
investing in something that will probably never directly make a profit
kek
>>80346287
>Technocrats
I don't think you quite understand what that word means.
>>80346174
Who is going to invest in something that turns out a profit after like 50 years?
>>80346262
Shut up, toothpaste.
>>80346287
"technocracy" implies scientists having political power
>>80346166
I would weaponize sickle cell anemia.
>>80345720
This thing cost like 9 billion over a course of 20 years or so. This isn´t really expensive actually. The refugees cost aus 25-40 billion a year so......
RACE WAR NOW
>>80346096
The World Wide Web is literally a CERN invention
>>80345720
>Open Source community
>Google R&D
>Tesla
>All of Silicon Valley
>>80346578
Where are you getting this misinformation from?
The internet was an American military invention to keep communications up during a nuclear attack.
>>80346604
This may surprise you but most of tesla technology comes from government funded projects initially
>>80346604
>Open Source community
You haven't actually used GNU/Linux, have you?
>>80345820
>implying society isn't better off without that
Society needs to develop practical fusion power within your lifetime if it doesn't want to collapse.
>>80346174
>wealthy private investors who want to reap the benefits of scientific progress
Nah. They want immediate results for minimal investment, while a lot of discovery happens by accident, and they expect the results they're paying for, so there goes objectivity. It's already a problem.
>>80346761
The World Wide Web and the Internet are different things you utter dolem. Without CERN you probably wouldn't have access to the Internet and it would remain a private military thing. Not to mention the "internet you are referring to is a basically a set of servers and nothing like the Internet now.
I don't get this
I consider myself libertarian, but I understand the need for research, etc
Anyone who claims to be anti-science is a cunt
>>80345720
the same way some of the greatest works of art were financed
Rich ass people paying for it for prestige, philanthropy or to show off their wealth
>>80346959
Oh, now I see.
When someone claims that "The internet they* invented* (*CERN) and I factually point out how they DIDN'T invent the internet you switch it to "The World Wide Web" to save face.
Gotcha ;-)
>>80346567
OK lets assume we went with your retarded lolbertarian logic and privatised all science research. Lets say, for hypothetical purposes, you're a typical kike Banker, but is also a science aficionado. So you decide to loan out $9 billion "FOR SCIENCE!", for a duration of 20 years at a fixed interest rate of 15% ROI.
In which universe do you see being paid back a total interest of $138 billion?
>>80347344
I literally said the world wide web is a cern invention you autistic mouth breeding spudlad
>In a libertarian society who would fund expensive science experiments?
Is this a fucking joke? R&D thrives under economic liberalism.
>>80346784
>tiny fraction is government-funded
>therefore research requires government
you could apply this argument to anything, statist
>>80347524
>CERN is the only center for scientific research
nice meme
>>80347245
Yeah, just look at Elon Musk
>>80345977
Straw man faggot. Oil, electricity, cars, planes... Market supplies all. Progress is stifled by government, but hey, I guess you've gotta buy off all the smart people somehow. It's too bad all they do is jack off their brains into a wad of paper that no one will ever read or use.
>>80347516
>>80347581
>>80347459
Please see this lolbertarians >>80347413
>>80347524
Are you saying research is never profitable? I can't understand what are you trying to imply but its not true.
>>80347413
>usury
>good
kys kike.
>>80347516
>>>>>>tiny fraction
Hmm lets see
Musk himself receives 4.9 billion a year in government research
But that's not what I'm arguing much of his technology such as the lithium batteries, capicitors, hydraulics are from funded research
>>80347458
You should really read through a thread before you reply, Anon.
You'll end up looking a lot less stupid, FYI.
>>80347413
What is the object of money?
>>80347673
wow numbers
what are they supposed to mean? i agree with you that fundamental research on things like theoretical physics would come about more slowly without government intervention. you're completely retarded if you don't think government regulation is slowing down drug development and biological inventions (aka things that can be sold to sick people for tons of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$)
>>80347655
>Progress is stifled by government
No, government investment in infrastructure, technology, etc helps society progress.
Limiting everything to private funding prevents long term investment that doesn't seek immediate profits.
The best system is a mixed economy with private ownership where the government pays companies to build things like the Hoover Dam or the international highway system.
>>80347707
>against usury
>expects to fund billion dollar risky science experiments at the cost of losing time value of money
Fuck all you tards, I'm going to check these >>80347777 now.
>>80347832
*Interstate
>>80347774
>stopping unscrupulous pharma companies from releasing a dangerous chemical is stifling mug progress ( read profits )
>>80347731
>lithium batteries
>Lithium batteries were proposed by M. S. Whittingham, now at Binghamton University, while working for Exxon in the 1970s.[16] Whittingham used titanium(IV) sulfide and lithium metal as the electrodes. However, this rechargeable lithium battery could never be made practical. Titanium disulfide was a poor choice, since it has to be synthesized under completely sealed conditions. This is extremely expensive (~$1000 per kilo for titanium disulfide raw material in 1970s). When exposed to air, titanium disulfide reacts to form hydrogen sulfide compounds, which have an unpleasant odour. For this, and other reasons, Exxon discontinued development of Whittingham's lithium-titanium disulfide battery.[17]
>capacitors
>In Berlin, Pollak ran electrotechnical factory "G. Wehr Telegraphen-Bau-Anstalt". Later he returned to Britain to commercialize his patents, which were released under anglicised version of his name, "Charles Pollak". In 1886 he became the director of a Paris company of electric tramways of his design. In the meantime he worked on the design of Electrochemical cell. He was very successful in this topic and it made him famous. Later he founded battery factories in Frankfurt, Germany and Liesing, Austria. Many battery-manufacturing companies have licensed his designs.
And hydraulics go back to the Greeks, you fucking moron
>>80347893
>environmental laws that stop us from looking like China stifle muh profits
>>80345720
I will just leave this here
>>80347893
>but m-muh omnipotent free market!
>>80345720
>scientists told to get "real jobs"?
yes. next question.
>>80347893
>forcing pharma companies to pay $10k per lab mouse is necessary
>billion dollar lawsuits for rare negative reactions is necessary
>taking several years to get a drug on the market that could be used to treat people with cancer prior to dying because the drug might make them sick is necessary
>>80347413
This has to be a troll. If some company spent billions of dollars on research, think asteroid mining or some gay shit, then they're expecting a return and are able to sell the idea to an investor or banker. It's really fantastic.
>>80348082
i think his point is that most companies would not expect to make a return, and therefore would not invest in said experimental research
>>80348041
Why aren't you arguing against the specific regulations instead of "all" regulations?
It's like saying you disagree with the tax code so lets legalize murder.
>>80345720
Everyone would have more money, and crowdfunding would be a big thing.
>>80348082
>actually expecting private companies to fund asteroid mining
>>80348142
>implying
You don't have to be an an-cap to be a libertarian.
>>80347832
Do you think that if you have to FORCE someone to pay for something, that maybe they shouldn't have to or shouldn't need to pay for it? If people demand something they will voluntary exchange for that something.
Ok, so for the techno-ignorant here is how I remember things going down. In the beginning there was ARPANET. A DARPA program to create a network of computers which could sustain a large chunk of said computers being wiped out due to nuclear war. This is the birthplace of the IP (internet protocol and maybe the TCP aswell can't remember). ARPANET is rolled out to USA universities as benefits are realised. Europe Universities granted access to network in due time. Here you have the beginnings of the INTERNET.
Now private business is allowed in to the mix allowing the creation of what we would consider today the internet.
The World Wide Web is the result of service provided by HTTP server software (and later HTTPS) on ports 80 (and 443 respectively). HTTP (Hyper Text Transfer Protocol) is an abstraction built on top of TCP/IP. ( I have deliberatly not mentioned DNS for simplicities sake.)
Sir Tim Berners Lee is widely regarded as the father of the World Wide Web as he implemented the first sucsessful Server to Client transmission using HTTP on the internet.
>>80346096
They created the world wide web, not the internet.
Either way, modern internet is the work of various scientists and research teams who combined some of their most powerful tools into one super structure, the best contribution having been from the american army and RnD teams
>>80345720
National Socialism is the best system.
>libertarians
>also think people function like homines oeconomici only thinking of immediate profit
you guys are the ultimate fedora core
>>80348270
that is some delicious pasta, thanks m8
>>80345720
>In a libertarian society--
well there's your problem. Your question starts with a contradiction!
>>80348316
>I'm a degenerate therefore everyone is
>>80348133
If you can't sell the idea to ANYBODY then it's prolly a fuckin waste
>>80348227
then why aren't you fine with health/safety/environmental regulations in principle?
>>80348265
>muh Force
see this must be an ancap
always whining about how le evil taxes and governmnet spending are without context.
As if government spending for the cgood of the country is in any way "bad"
>>80345720
same people who do right now, ackmed. people who want to benefit from the research.
>>80345720
>Wouldn't it be considered as wasting money and the scientists told to get "real jobs"?
Nice bait.
Companies are extremely interested in the potential opportunities from these experiments.
They fund them because they want to be ahead of the pack.
>>80348390
Fair point, I agree that mining asteroids for the sake of it is bullshit science and more sci-fi masturbation.
>>80348409
I am fine with environmental regulations in principle. Pollution is an infringement of property rights.
>>80348368
libertarians support and promote degeneracy
>>80345980
>The internet they invented is technically still free for all.
Fuck off.
>>80348203
>implying that we'd be better off forcing people to pay for it
Kill yourself commie
>>80348492
>>80348390
>lol it isn't profitable now so it will never be
that's the same logic you would have used to defund DARPA
>>80348270
Underrated post.
>>80348580
>government spending=communism
that's not what communism is, dumbass
communism is government control of the means of production.
By your """logic"""" the US government paying for NASA to go to the moon was "communism"
>>80346362
Is that a nazi tattoo on his right arm?
>>80348409
As if forcing people to pay for something and then giving them shit product is good.
>>80348599
Nice strawman faggot. I'm saying that for some things, it's worth waiting on until the technology/material costs are cheap enough. To use your debating skills
"lol the digital computer is profitable now, why didn't the Babylonians invent it"
>>80348368
I thought fedoras are usually history buffs and Roman boos?
Historically, the richest few of a society were always interested in social peace. They would buy that peace by financing various prestigious projects to show the populace that they were good guys. Those were never just panem et circenses. On top of that they would also finance great architectural projects, they would pay poets and thinkers for their works
>>80348699
>shit product
kek yeah the space program was so "shit" in the 60s
just ignore all the scientific progress they made.
>>80348490
All the basic research is done by goverment organisations everywhere in western world. Company tech spending makes up usually third of the research budgets and consist mostly totally different field than what goverment does.
>>80345977
>Libertarians think everything should make an immediate profit
No, libertarians think people should decide themselves what is done with their property. Most libetarian thinkers would probably think that in the long-term the security of private property will improve the population's time preference to the point that long-term projects like scientific research will become easier to fund.
>>80348761
In what way is this post responding to an argument I've made?
>>80348285
>They created the world wide web, not the internet.
That's my point, people need to quit saying stupid shit that's not true. The internet you're using right now began as a U.S. military precaution (regarding communications during nuclear war) which CERN just built upon.
Pic related. You're welcome, idiots.
>>80348650
im not going to argue definitions faggot.
>>80348794
Define "basic research"
>>80345720
Bro just do crowdfunding lmao :^)
But in all honesty, it likely wouldn't be funded.
There's the possibility of futurist organizations and long-term conscious patricians, but those seem far less assured than a government who literally doesn't care about making a profit, and is more than happy to throw money at something that won't produce civilian results for decades, if not more.
Remember, people, and thus voters, like Science!; what they don't like is actually picking and choosing which Science! they want to fund, because that would require them to understand what all that Science! actually is.
>>80348650
>private the profits
>socialise the losses
This really sums up all lolbertarians. Its no wonder most of them deny climate change.
>>80348752
how are you ever going to make the scientific progress to make technology profitable without spending money on research? Much of that investment might not be profitable for decades down the line meaning no company would invest.
>"lol the digital computer is profitable now, why didn't the Babylonians invent it"
>comparing millennia to decades
Bravo
>>80348928
>companies never spend money on research
Where are you getting this from?
>>80348813
But the moon landings were faked right? And 9/11 was an inside job?
>>80346959
I used the internet for years before the WWW was invented.
>>80348773
What the fuck has landing on the moon done for any of us? It was a colossal waste of money. NASA was good in the 60s. Private sector workers still work well for a while after getting public sector jobs. But eventually they realize they don't have to provide value to get payed.
>>80348868
Math, physics, etc. Who would fund CERN and what profit would there be in creating of big bang and what kind of corporation would have money to do that.
Nuclear power, internet, satellites, mobile phones, batteries. It all comes from military skunk work mainly. It is just refined forward by the private sector for consumers. They would never spend money on the basic research.
>>80348696
No, it is a cross.
>>80348966
You should probably Achmed about "inside jobs", heard your Mom blasted him with a doozy last night.
>>80348851
that's the dictionary definition of communism
>>80348899
>fuck society I have money
hmm I wonder who could be behind this
>>80348953
they do
but they expect a return on investment
>>80349101
>wahhhh I hate technology I wish the Soviets won the Cold War
Rich people willa always like to waste money and organizations and what not would still be created and ask for donations
>>80349101
There has been hundreds of inventions and discoveries made just getting to the moon.
>>80349115
Most math has always been developed by individuals. I've admitted that CERN and things like particle physics are an exception, due to the lack of profit motive (you can't patent a subatomic particle), but most research in organic chemistry, biochemistry, medicine, etc can easily be handled by the private sector.
Batteries, mobile phones, and satellites all would have or did come about without public funding.
>>80349208
Yeah I forget that Soros and Zuckerberg give billions of dollars to NASA instead of giving it to Black Lives Matter and illegal immigrants.
>>80348316
Isn't that basically every argument against libertarianism?
What is the object of money? Simply creating more money?
>>80345720
>ITT: OP who have never heard of crowdfunding and rich people profiting off of new scientific frontiers.
>>80349101
>What the fuck has landing on the moon done for any of us?
Literally a Jewgle search away, anon.
Also, it's a shame that you can only think of achievements in relation to what immediate material benefit they bring to you.
Is the wonder and glory of man stepping foot on another celestial body not enough for you?
The fact that it can be done, and that we are not prisoners of Earth?
The promise and hope that we will one day return, and go even farther, and make proper use of the boundless bounty of our solar system, and perhaps even beyond it?
>>80349115
Yes they would. Oil, gas, steel, guns, oil, electricity. What is the industrial revolution? Was it the greatest explosion of wealth humanity has ever seen?
>>80349190
You don't get to dictate what a person can do with their own money in a free society you autistic faggot. You can claim "the greater good" all you want, you're one fucking man, you don't speak for everyone
Of course they expect a return on their investment, no one does anything in this world for free and it's stupid to think you deserve money with no strings attached
Landing on the moon did nothing for out standing in the Cold War except let us say "Up Yours" to the commies for a while. What ended the Cold War was the soviets own people waking up to the pointlessness of communism.
>>80345720
Design a cryptocurrency around solving scientific problems. To augment this, there should obviously be a tax for the most fundamental infrastructure of the government, and science should be one of them, as it's closely related to education. But it could be opt-in based on program.
>>80348812
you guys have such a narrow understanding of how a capitalist would act in a completely free environment
You seem to think that all they want is monetary profit and that they would only do things that they would profit from directly monetarily, when historically rich people did all sorts of things from which they would never profit directly but rather in an indirect way, like doing stuff for prestige or to secure social peace
>>80349277
>crowdfunding
kek
>and rich people profiting off of new scientific frontiers.
Yes.
Profiting off of new scientific frontiers so graciously provided to them by the state, and at no (direct) cost.
The problem is not "who would fund it" but "what would government do with the money to fund it."
There exist individuals and institutions.
Individuals have various goals which depend on their character - to achieve abmitions, to provide for their family, sometimes merely to live and have enough to eat. Individuals' goals differ and are many, disctated only by the will of an individual.
Institutions ultimately have all one goal expressed in two ways. Unless we speak of a group led by a single individual, which may serve said individual's purpose, if an institution is self-governing and has no clear singluar leader, it is without a character. The group beginst to exist solely because it provides either money or power to the members - and those higher up receive more of it than those below. So once an institution loses character, becomes self governing, it switches to either the goal of achieving as much power as possible, or earning as much money as possible - and as we know, the more money one has, the more power they have. Istitutions, unlike people, have no character and seek power.
Government, unless lead by a single character, is an average institution with substantially more power than others. This draws other institutions to government, to influence it and suppowe its rule, so that it may achieve even more power.
When one allows an institution to excercise power over another, to force them into something with no reprecussions, one enables an ultimate institution to exist. Financing scientists in that fashion is but another cover by the institution to create more power for itself - nobody can objectively state that 100% of the money paid in taxes for the science funds goes to said funds. A huge chunk of that money goes to the government, its minions and little aims of ensuring and attaining more power instead.
>>80345720
"research" costs 1000x more when the government does it
>>80349268
less known, more retarded rich people who aren't illuminati
>>80349357
>b-but muh free market!!!
>b-but free market solves all problems!!!!
>waahhhhhh
>WAAAAHHHHH!!!!
>>80349115
>mobile phones, batteries, internet
You stupid Mongolian faggot, I know you're not implying technology created without government investment wouldn't exist if hadn't received government money?
>>80349423
And the money that does go to science, goes to science that no one interested in making money would fund.
The government doesn't need money; it already owns all the money. It can only expand its power by improving its nation.
>>80349521
>I have no argument so I'll just strawman
>>80349225
Name them
>>80348650
Money is control. NASA produced spaceships with some outsourcing. Its mild socialism.
Funny how the argument is always absolute anarcho capitalism representing libertarianism but god forbid we use communism to represent left wing programs.
>>80349190
So the government owned the means of producing spacecraft?
>landing on the moon won us the Cold War
Nigger we lost the Cold War if you haven't noticed. We are cucked by communism.
>>80345720
Taking people's money to build a really neat science lab is no different than taking people's money and using it to build a big waterpark.
If you like waterparks and you think there shold be one, but you can't afford it on your own, and you can't convince anybody else to chip in, then FUCK YOU! Fuck what you like, fuck what you think is important, and most of all, fuck your parents.
There is nothing you can build with stolen money that justifies you stealing it. Not science, not medicine, nothing.
If your precious experiment was really important to mankind, people would fund it voluntarily.
PERIOD!
>>80349267
>Most math has always been developed by individuals
Who are on the goverment payroll and funds mostly.
> most research in organic chemistry, biochemistry, medicine, etc can easily be handled by the private sector.
Even now the funding is billions to trillions from goverments in field of chemistry because many programs aren't simply lucrative for private sector.
> Batteries, mobile phones, and satellites all would have or did come about without public funding.
How do you send satellites to orbit without working rocket technology? How long are talking about in here then? Decades?
And no nuclear technology. That is some fucked up deficency in energy markets.
>>80348270
Me again :D I just remembered this bit of music which gives a nice historical account of the development of the net from a user/cracker perspective.
Whilst you may not appreciate the genre or style the lyrics are an accurate representation of what went down. I find it captures the mystique of being an "internet pioneer" very well :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MduMuSouSI
>>80349436
And that ""research"" likely wouldn't have been touched with a ten foot pole by anyone but the government.
>>80349423
And to answer those who would claim that in a libertarian world non-commercial scientists would get no funding - maybe not during a crisis. And not immediately after rule changes. But once any degree of prosperity is attained and people begin to be content in their lives such people give rather than take. Little makes a happy man more satisfied with his own self than seeing to it that other be happy too.
Non-commercial tech would be harder to develop at first, but as time goes on and prosperity rises, scarcity becomes lesser, more people will find themselves with more money than they know what to do with and more people will find themselves needing to do less advertising and promoting of whatever deed they seek financial aid with in order to obtain that aid.
>>80349601
You're a libertarian, that's what you do.
Good on you for admitting it.
>>80349628
>We are cucked by communism.
Give examples of communism in the US right now.
>>80349544
Government owns the means to produce legal tender but it most certainly doesn't "Own all the money". Means of exchange will exist with, or without a government and government money can be easily ignored, take Zimbabwe for example.
>>80349357
>You don't get to dictate what a person can do with their own money in a free society
You don't own your tax money anymore
>you're one fucking man, you don't speak for everyone
Good thing we have a republic then and not a monarchy
>it's stupid to think you deserve money with no strings attached
>it's stupid for hte government to improve society lol
>Landing on the moon did nothing
>muh space race didn't matter
what sort of drooling retards actually believe this?
Yeah I'm sure US space superiority did nothing in helping the US defeat the Soviet Union. All those satellites and rocket propelled nukes were totally useless. Defending your country from communism is the exact same thing as being a communist.
>>80349737
You're still not refuting anything. You get hit with a proper argument that destroys your flimsy argument and all you can do is go
>LOLBERTARIAN
>>80346420
No, technocracy actually means that the ruling class has all the science and tech at their fingertips while it's restricted to the masses.
The rulers don't need to understand the science, they just need to keep those that do as a priest class.
>>80349654
>Who are on the goverment payroll and funds mostly.
Citation needed
>Even now the funding is billions to trillions from goverments in field of chemistry because many programs aren't simply lucrative for private sector.
Only because of FDA regulations that cause a single drug to cost over a billion dollars in order to reach the market
>How do you send satellites to orbit without working rocket technology? How long are talking about in here then? Decades?
Do you think no private companies would have invented the jet engine for commercial purposes?
>no nuclear technology
Doubtful, but energy isn't a huge issue. See: fracking
>>80349225
I wouldn't doubt it, but we'll never have the recources or human productivity back that we pour into NASA. It's gone into a black hole of nothingness.
It should be the goal of every human being to further our species, in whatever way the individual can.
>>80349803
Landing on the moon and the space race are two different things. One is related to the other but not the same as the other
>>80349268
They usually do both. Social and technological charity.
>>80349912
I mean landing on the moon is part of the space race but the space race itself is a much bigger thing
>>80349638
I love this
>>80349544
That's why people interested in making money wouldn't fund it. And why people uninterested in making money but interested in helping others or interested in science itself would.
I imagine that despite the lack of any practicality of studying literature in 16th century there were students of literature nonetheless. The lack of financial aspect does not deter an individual.
And as for the government
>The government doesn't need money; it already owns all the money. It can only expand its power by improving its nation.
That would be the case. It used to be for centuries. But it is no longer. Globalism exists. What power or benefit to the nation or government does the TPP allow the USA? There are many other examples of pointless, from national point of view, legislation which exists solely to allow more power to institutions which draw from the government. They are the true enemy of an independent, free man, and these institutions and groups stand high above what we believe the "character" of a government - it's devotion to the nation, the constitution and people involved in it - can do.
>>80349619
>Its mild socialism
Socialism is government control of the means of production for fuck's sake it's not just government spending money
you can't call every government program you don't like "communism"
>>80349628
>So the government owned the means of producing spacecraft?
by that logic every country with a military is a communist country
>We are cucked by communism
not really. We live in a world run by globalists who happen to be incredibly left wing socially
>>80347832
The other mice are all talking about how the cheese is on a mousetrap and you're going off on a rant about how nutritious cheese is and how necessary it is to eat food, etc.
Everything that government provides that is good, is just the cheese in their trap. And if you want to just look at the cheese and forget the whole trap aspect of the mousetrap, go for it.
Your death will teach the children.
>>80349953
kek no they don't
and not even close to the budgets the US (used) to invest in technology and infrastructure.
>>80349738
Welfare and ecpecially all these fuckin women's programs. Men pay some 80% of the tax revenue and are only consuming 20%. Public healthcare is a subsidy for WOMEN. Why do you think the majority of women aren't sweet and nice to you anymore? Cause they don't have to be to take your money cuck. Same for niggers
>>80350180
>abolish the government, goy I promise nothing bad will happen
who actually buys this shit?
>>80349803
>you don't own it anymore
Sounds like the same argument made by a theif.
>>80349738
Racial division is part of there strategy for one.
>>80350238
>american education
>>80350092
>The lack of financial aspect does not deter an individual.
Very true, but the government has a lot more money than a few learned individuals. It just takes a little bit of convincing to get some of that money for your studies, rather than relying on your own funds, or that of friends and colleagues.
Ideally, at least.
>that... can do.
Again, a very true point, but there's so much wrong with the current state of the global world that you can't really talk about these sorts of things as they should be.
The only solution is a return to proper nation-states, or to rip the proverbial bandage off and transition to a true world-state. Everything in between is harmful to human civilization and the common welfare of man,
>giving a single shit about space travel
muh funding
dont you think everyone in the world wants funding
literally... what if i want to research dog testicles does that make me less important than you
no but you get funding and i dont?
>>80350238
>>80350343
Oh, you're just an idiot who doesn't know what communism means.
Never mind then, carry on. Sorry I bothered.
>>80350213
Yes actually they do.
No they tend to be more efficient with their money.
>>80350288
It's not theft when the sovereign does it, dumbass
the difference is our government is an actual democracy while governments in the past were just ruled by a few aristocrats or oligarchs.
Life will be much worse when you autistic retards abolish the government.
>>80345720
It is a waist of money if people don't want it.
>le strawmen fest
Anyways, it's not like Watt needed gobberment funding to revolutionize the industry.
>>80348195
No no no, we have to talk about why the new system wouldn't work under the old system's rules.
We can't talk about people having way more wealth or anyone using crowdfunding, we can only talk about bankers and investors, since those are the only people who can afford to fund science now.
You can't just change the world and then expect things to be any different.
We're arguing with Statists, after all.
>>80345720
>implying that now expensive science experiments are being founded
Why are statists so fucking retarded ?
Do you actually think that your money is going towards useful stuff ?
Only like 2% of what the government spends is going to science.
>>80350433
>efficient
The whole point of government funding is that you're not making a profit to begin with it's speculative, no one knows if it will pay off or not.
But it's still a good idea to invest billions in STEM research for obvious reasons.
>>80350395
>what if i want to research dog testicles
biology is still science, dipshit
>>80350162
a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.
What does money do? What happens when the government can reallocate it by force?
>>80348203
Some of the asteroids in the belt are worth more than the GDP of Earth, fuckwit.
I'd say not only will private companies fund asteroid mining, it's a fucking race.
>>80350274
look its not going to be anarchy trust me. we would end up with corporate sponsored militias and a feudal state system with shoguns and shit. who ever the largest job provider in your area is would be like a king and they would lob military forces at others
if your not fighting for wallmart or mcdonalds your gay. and they have a alliance so they are the team you want to be on you dont want to throw away your life fighting for kmart
>>80350587
>obvious reasons
You mean return on investment?
>>80350587
>biology is still science, dipshit
ya but theres not infinite money to be doled out
anyone who says theyre doing "science" can just get boatloads of cash from the government gee i didnt know that
science has literally a googleplex of subsciences and if i want to study the chemical composition of dogshit then theyre gonna have to pay up
its for my dogs health
>>80350732
What a delusional post
>>80350442
if 10 people are in a room and 6 of them vote to take recources from the other 4 that's still stealing. If some blacks and women vote to take recources a way from white men, actively take their recources whether the white men want them to or not, and then treat them like utter fucking shit on a massive scale because they don't have to provide value to them anymore to take their money that's stealing or socialism or communism or whatever you want to call it, either way, ITS WRONG
>>80350442
Another fucking retard who thinks Libertarian is the same thing as Anarchy
>>80350599
>What happens when the government can reallocate it by force
Nothing. Certainly not communism.
>we would end up with corporate sponsored militias and a feudal state system
wow that sounds awesome
sign me up right away
>>80350781
the overall progress of scientific research which doesn't necessitate immediate profit at all
>>80350601
Yes they'll do it once the government has funded space technology for half a century+ and taken most of the initial costs. If the government hadn't had a space program no for profit company would be willing to take such a risk. A risk that would repay after most of the shareholders and leadership of that company would be dead.
Insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, other companies with large R&D budgets.
The UK became the scientific capital of the world, during the industrial revolution. During this period the UK had no publicly funded science, while Germany, France, and other European nations poured money into science to try and get the position as the science capital of the world.
The idea that science requires big budgets from governments is both counterfactual and makes no sense theoretically.
>>80350450
>waist
>WAIST
>>80350274
Well memed.
>>80345720
It is, they would.
>>80345720
>If the state doesn't do ___ nobody ever will!
You dumb cuties!
>>80350943
Which is why the government should stay out of it. Just by your statement you are admitting that the government is wasting money as it is not a profitable venture. What this means is that there is no demand for it so no one is benefiting, its just a drain on society.
>>80350943
if we didnt waste all that time dreaming about a space rock maybe we would have flying cars and lightspeed trains with lazers and dinosaurs
oops we fucked up we instead wanted to waste like 2000000000 tons of rocket fuel and the nations focus on doing absolutely nothing of value
inb4 "hurrrrrrrr NASA made inventions tho"
my asshole can make inventions too if you gave me 10 trillion dollars
>>80349704
90% of all government research, you would pay money for it never to have been done.
I'll just leave this here, since you obviously missed it the first time:
>>80347977
Do you have any idea what kind of shit the government has spent millions on researching?
Check this one out:
>>80350836
>hurr there will be no restrictions whatsoever
just by refusing to fund whatever faggoty liberal arts major you are probably majoring in the government is already saving money.
>>80350847
>if 10 people are in a room and 6 of them vote to take recources from the other 4 that's still stealing
If that's their system of law that they legally developed then it technically isn't stealing.
All our problems today stem from cucks voting for politicians that give free shit to non whites.
>>80350871
Libertarians should stop saying the state is le evil then
>>80350847
>If some blacks and women vote to take recources a way from white men, actively take their recources whether the white men want them to or not, and then treat them like utter fucking shit on a massive scale because they don't have to provide value to them anymore to take their money that's stealing or socialism or communism or whatever you want to call it, either way, ITS WRONG
>t. inferior white man
It sounds like you're just upset someone (blacks) figured out how to play your system to their advantage.
Oh, and it's "resources", tardy.
>>80345720
>Wouldn't it be considered as wasting money and the scientists told to get "real jobs"?
that's already the case with scientists on the dole
>>80350558
>Only like 2% of what the government spends is going to science.
That 2% is a lot of money.
>>80351113
Well said
>>80345720
Corporations would, if they saw a need for the experiment. Otherwise, you have to do it the old-fashioned way: Convince wealthy patrons to donate some funds for your experiment. That's how the Brits did it.
>>80351142
Don't bother, these space niggers don't know what opportunity cost is, let alone have read The Seen and The Unseen.
>>80350365
>but (...) individuals
And it would have a lot less money should it never be allowed to expand so much. Say, the government in 1900's wasn't so powerful as it is now and progress happened nonetheless. The less money to the government, the more money to the people, the more money to the people, the more people spend on programmes above themselves. The very fact that you care about science enough to allow the government and advocate it taking your money to fund scientists, and oppose taking away that governmental ability because then scientists might be funded less: this speaks volumes of an average person and their tremendous will to support others with ambitious goals.
>but there's so much wrong with the current state of the global world that you can't really talk ... things as they should be.
If we decide not to seek the true and best approach for the sake of its impracticality at the moment, we shall forever be stuck taking small steps in all the wrong directions.
>The only solution (...) welfare of man.
What is your goal? Mine is not some amazing total increase in global wealth - that is the goal of globalists and in the long run, it would allow institutions more power than ever before. Neither is a goal of mine to allow some amazing increase in national wealth of all nations - which is, the nationalist approach and much safer from scenarions like 1984.
My goal is to allow an individual to achieve whatever they are able to. I care not for total wealth or total welfare of peoples. I care only about the individual. Because this approach brings back evolution to society and in the long run will achieve the very same increase in total wealth, but also because this approach allows those honest and hard working, those industrious and inventive to thrive while degrading tremendously the dishonest, lazy and wrongful. Allowing institutions to achieve whatever they are able to - now that allows the dishonest and nefarious to thrive. I would not stand for that
>>80351152
>Academics at the university of Oregon
uh-huh
>>80351230
Thanks for the (You), I'll return the favour.
>>80350442
Libertarians don't want to abolish the government. Not everything is anarchy when you don't like it. We aren't a democracy. We're supposed to be a democratic republic.
You aren't arguing why the government can legalize violating property rights, you're simply pointing out they can.
Its like me making the argument that in a free market you don't get to redistribute others' wealth for your self righteous causes. You seem against the free market and me pointing that reality our to you just tells you what you already know basically telling you to just deal with it.
You've put forth reasons YOU feel government should redistribute others' productivity but ultimately it's not consistent with property rights. I may even agree with some of your views but even I admit it is basically theft.
>>80351184
Nigger detected
>>80351176
You seem desperate for funding young man
Doesnt that show a real sick symptom of the state of the economy ? Seeking government funding rather than making money elsewhere cuz it cant be found
ya thats not normal bro.
youre gonna hate your job anyways i would drop out of whatever stupid biology shit ur doing
>>80351176
Except the State is evil because retards like you keep giving it more power then it should have because you don't like the idea of there being someone out in the world who's better than you.
>>80347655
Are you retarded? We need to make progress as mankind. We can't just stay forever with oil, cars and planes. Resources will run out. Space on earth will run out eventually. 1% of the fundings go to the fucking science departments. 60% GOES TO YOUR FCKING HIPSTER MEDIA BULLSHIT.
>>80348813
>>80348285
First packet switching device and online message came from UCLA via leonard kleinrock and his compeers, now stop arguing semantics.
>>80349738
Central bank? Federal Reserve?
Literally the very first plank in Marx's manifesto?
Hey, you're supposed to be smart, not stupid.
Libertarianism is so fucking stupid. It just replaces heartless government with heartless corperations
>>80351371
I, for one, would love to see the Earth's population go back down to a billion or so.
>>80351333
>.
No, but nice retort, you seem highly intelligent.
>>80351371
That is the way governments work. They waste money. Thinking governments will spend majority of the money on useful things is a pipe dream
>>80350884
>nothing
Then why give it money?
>straw man
Why bother?
>>80349857
>Citation needed
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fields_Medal#Fields_medalists
> Only because of FDA regulations that cause a single drug to cost over a billion dollars in order to reach the market
What a load of shit. In Finland goverment pricing policy allows cheaper medicine copies to be sold freely. This is what private companies don't want goverment to allow in USA.
> Do you think no private companies would have invented the jet engine for commercial purposes?
You do know that jet engines are not rocket technology that sends satellites into orbit? And jet engine technology was once again mostly developed by militaries in WWII
> Doubtful, but energy isn't a huge issue. See: fracking
Are you comparing fraking to cleanest energy source on earth that gives over 10% world energy currently and growing? Jesus I wonder what world would look like with coal and oil were usead instead nuclear energy for 60 years in modern world.
>>80350884
r&d is almost never immediate. It's an investment and there's risk associated that may not bear fruit.
It is speculative.
>>80351113
>Satellites aren't useful
>Mining asteroids or whatever else won't be profitable in 50-100 years.
Private companies lack the ability to fund anything with very long term returns.
>>80351142
>if we didnt waste all that time dreaming about a space rock maybe we would have flying cars and lightspeed trains with lazers and dinosaurs
Yes private companies are well known to invest trillions into developing completely new technologies that in the short term have no commercial process.
Without government funded science you wouldn't have the internet, satellites, nuclear power, etc.
>>80349803
>You don't own your tax money anymore
Wow.
>We already stole it from you!
>The time when it was yours is in the past.
>it is now rightfully ours, as the current owners of what was stolen from you.
>if anything, you were the thief, retroactively speaking.
>Pray we do not alter the deal any further.
Thanks, you just made me proud to be a Libertarian again.
>>80351498
>What a load of shit. In Finland goverment pricing policy allows cheaper medicine copies to be sold freely. This is what private companies don't want goverment to allow in USA.
What he probably means is that private companies have to pass through so many hoops that these hoops cost so much money which makes research into new drugs expensive.
Copying drug manufacture is easy and cheap. What isn't easy and cheap is finding out which drugs do something useful with minimum and acceptable side effects
>>80351411
>Central bank? Federal Reserve?
I'd love to hear you try and explain how either one of those is communism. Please be real specific, I'm looking to be entertained with this.
>>80350274
I don't know, but in here we're talking about Libertarianism, you're talking about anarchy.
Please take ten years to go learn what words mean and then come back to debate.
>>80351305
>Libertarians don't want to abolish the government
yet they constantly say the state is "le evil"
>it's not consistent with property rights
It's totally consistent with property rights if you understand what the "sovereign" is.
hint: it's not the people who tell cops they can do whatever they want when driving
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCozh_vbYdM
>>80351335
I work in the private sector
>>80351348
Libertarians say the state is implicitly evil regardless of what it does. They say "taxation is theft" for fuck's sake.
>>80351487
I meant nothing in terms of being communist
in practice the government spending money on investing in technology, infrastructure, defense and the overall well being of the country is a good thing.
No one today whines and bitches about Eisenhower's national highway system as being "communism"
>>80351630
>steal
the government is the sovereign dumbass whatever it lawfully does is legitimate by definition.
No it's not theft, and you don't "own" the money that you pay the government in taxes.
That being said I'm for low taxes in general anyway. Not that libertardarians care.
>>80351498
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fields_Medal#Fields_medalists
Are you suggesting that mathematicians made those discoveries in order to win this reward? You've got the timing backwards.
>What a load of shit. In Finland goverment pricing policy allows cheaper medicine copies to be sold freely. This is what private companies don't want goverment to allow in USA.
>Finnish pharma companies
kek, you're an idiot and a thief. "Allows" is another way of saying you guys mooch off of American financial support indirectly because your government doesn't want to bear the costs we, the FDA tax-paying private citizens and consumers, must pay.
>You do know that jet engines are not rocket technology that sends satellites into orbit? And jet engine technology was once again mostly developed by militaries in WWII
Yeah, I'm aware, but it led to it. What about the jet engine do you think made it impossible for private companies to invent? Was government funding required for the steamengine, which totally revolutionized trade?
>>80351498
>Are you comparing fraking to cleanest energy source on earth that gives over 10% world energy currently and growing? Jesus I wonder what world would look like with coal and oil were usead instead nuclear energy for 60 years in modern world.
Nuclear is fringe and not that important. Uranium reserves are quite small.
>>80351759
Libertarians constantly whine about the very existence of a government.
>>80351251
>And... goals
Except I recognize that not everyone has the same values and goals as me. Not everyone cares about science.
Taxation and government spending is a useful way, in my mind, to take money from people who would waste in frivolities and direct it to somewhere important, even if it is more inefficient.
>If we ... wrong directions.
The problem with that is that we all have different values and virtues; it is entirely possible that some of these values and virtues are irreconcilable.
>What is ... like 1984.
My goal? I want peace. I want knowledge. I want power. For me, for everyone, individually and collectively. I want humanity to become something greater than the sum of its parts, and we can't do that fractured.
It will require excising cancers from humanity, it will require severe structural renovations of how our institutions function, and it will hurt, but it will be for the best.
>My goal ... for that
You claim that evolution is good, and I ask, why?
Evolution created man, but it also created the earthworm and the chimp, the fish and the bird, the mold and the pine tree.
It is blind, it is without purpose, and it cares only about what is the most successful.
It is said that all available niches will be filled by life, except that life doesn't know what a niche IS. Life will be scum-sucking worms and parasitic horrors if it can.
What makes you think this is a desirable state for man? We have the potential to be greater than nature, although we are born from it, and it is time that we act like it.
>>80351176
If a group of men take the country by force and make it law that 2+2=5, then they get to decide what is and isn't "technical".
But still 2+2=4, in reality.
Libertarianism isn't anarchy so no. If people thought the LHC was a good use of money, they would vote to spend on it like we do now.
>>80351176
And when they're born into this system and no way to stop it? When there very lively hood or chance at having a family depends on them having the money that's stripped from their hands never to be seen again. You paint a house in the heat of summer, admire your work, turn back, turn back again, and all the paint is gone. All that productivity waisted so that some autistic scientist could beat off his brain into a wad of useless paper that no one will ever read or know that exist.
>>80345720
Dont universities fund a huge amount of research?
>>80351803
Except we don't retard, we don't like the overreaching of government and the retards like you who want to give them more power because you're either a jealous piece of shit, a statist, or a genuine retard who sees the government as a benevolent entity.
>>80351765
>the government is the sovereign dumbass whatever it lawfully does is legitimate by definition.
Then why your faggot grandparents decided to butt into Germany when they were running the Merchant Compression Programme?
It's not like lives of those poor merchants belonged to them.
Since, you know, Germany took them.
>>80351619
>Without government funded science you wouldn't have the internet, satellites, nuclear power, etc.
blatantly false my dear sir those are debunked
it all starts out with a private invention like a prototype, then the government wants to use it for war purposes so creates the full thing not even with good intentions to help people at all
all the internet cables and satellites are operated by private companys bro
>>80351250
Yes friend because I do not believe that private companies are perfect and that in a libertarian society we would have flying dinosaurs with lasers on them I do not understand basic concepts.
>>80347754
too "best" counteract the infinite innate dishonesty of humans
>>80345720
Corporations.
They wouldn't fund things particle accelerators unfortunately. Libertarianism isn't very good for science that is very far forward.
>>80351271
YEAH, WITH YOUR MONEY, YOU FUCKING RETARDED PIECE OF SHIT!
TRY AND KEEP UP!
>>80351619
>Private companies lack the ability to fund anything with very long term returns.
Do you understand the interaction between interest rates and time preferences? In a free market increases in saving lower interest rates, which means projects with lower time preferences get made. This tells entrepreneurs when it is appropriate to do such things, governments do not react to market forces so they just do things whenever. Hence why what they do is a drain on the economy.
The goods used to make the space program would have been better used by the market.
>>80350442
>>80351975
Well you obviously don't. Governments CANNOT make economic calculations so they will allocate resources poorly almost every time.
>>80351619
all the problems in the world come from poverty which libertarianism is bent on fixing to the maximum ability
were not in need of new ground breaking quadrillion dollar technology innovations if nobody is even going to be able to afford it?
you need insurance to be cheap if you want a medical breakthrough to be effect in a population
see how economy matters most above all the rest?
Also, isn't it a meme that the Space Race cause USA to win the cold war. The cold war was won because capitalism was a superior economic system
>>80352182
*caused
>>80352062
Why must everything be maximally efficient and according to the market's whims?
What you see as a bane of government, I see as a boon. It simply doesn't give a shit about markets or profitability, and so it has the freedom to take extravagant risk.
As "inefficient" as the space race may have been, you cannot deny that the technologies developed back then have opened the door for an entirely new industry and market to come roaring to life today.
>>80351630
I dont think you understand what a bank note is. If you want to barter chickens and sacks of rice, go ahead, but currency is a contractual exchange in which you agree to abide by the rules of the government/society that prints it. Its why the FIFA scandal a year back had the US involved, because the crooks overseas used DOLLARS, the second you make and spend US CURRENCY, you agree to be subject to its rules, you cunt.
People dont like paying taxes, but we hate living in a shithole way more. You dumb libertarian fucks have no concept of history or human evolution, stop trying to be edgy with "MUH FORCE" memes. If you dont like paying taxes, move to a country that doesnt do it, i hear some african countries might fit your taste. Meanwhile the rest of us will enjoy infrastructure, scientific progress, and an IQ greater than a shovel.
>>80351701
I already explained that it's in Karl Marx's fucking book.
He made a list of the ten things that were needed to make a country communist. Central bank was literally the FIRST thing on that list.
Please fucking punish yourself for being so smug and arrogant and yet completely fucking uninformed and uneducated.
Please punish yourself, please. Do it.
>>80346850
>Society needs to develop practical fusion power within your lifetime if it doesn't want to collapse.
that's profitable, and therefore could happen in a libertarian society. I'm talking about CERN and bullshit like that
>>80345720
You dumbs. University earns money, when students want to study there, the bigger prestige the more money, and the prestige comes from science research. It doesnt have to make profit directly, the fact of inventing something new is profitable itself. You really are brainwashed, which is fucking hillarious considering thw whole redpill bullshit on this board. Just try to think for a minute.
>>80347458
>>80347741
Leave him be, britanon. Americans are stupid by default. Anything they can claim as 'their own' is utmost important for their greasy patriotic brains
>>80345720
> In a libertarian society who would fund expensive science experiments?
Venture capitalists
>>80351803
No, they fucking don't, it just seems like that because you're too stupid to think for yourself, and you need someone smart to be your handler and do your thinking for you.
Please go find a smart person, shouldn't be hard, they only have to be smarter than you, and offer your services as a slave in exchange for them taking care of you as a ward.
>>80352230
>Why must everything be maximally efficient and according to the market's whims?
Because it is the only moral way to allocate resources. The governments gun is both immoral and inefficient. There is literally no reason for it to be allocating resources.
>As "inefficient" as the space race may have been, you cannot deny that the technologies developed back then have opened the door for an entirely new industry and market to come roaring to life today.
I suggest you read the essay The Seen And The Unseen by Frederic Bastiat. It may be your first step out of economic illiteracy.
>>80351963
>blatantly false my dear sir those are debunked
debunked by whom exactly and where can i find those blatantly obvious proofs.
>it all starts out with a private invention like a prototype, then the government wants to use it for war purposes so creates the full thing not even with good intentions to help people at all
Nuclear power wouldn't have been developed without billions in research. There was no private prototypes of a nuclear plant. There was an incomplete theory on how to do it in which no one would have invested billions (10-100s of billions today).
Satellites and space exploration in general would have required even more funding for profits that wouldn't materialize for a century if not longer.
Computers in general and networking were invented in public universities.
>all the internet cables and satellites are operated by private companys bro
>>80350943
>Yes they'll do it once the government has funded space technology for half a century+ and taken most of the initial costs.
>>80345720
Private business is the largest funder of scientific experiments.
>>80352068
>>80351765
Evil doesn't mean abolish.
The sovereign is that which carries the largest stick.
Nevertheless these programs are socialist. Advocate for them. Advocate for your mixed economy, just be honest and consistent about it. Communism and socialism are like the boogie man, people shy away from associating with them even when they are suitable.
>>80352282
> 1. Abolition of Property in Land and Application of all Rents of Land to Public Purpose.
wew lad
>>80352495
>my memes debunk over 100 years of scholarship
Do you really think you aren't missing anything? Do you actually think there aren't libertarian answers to these issues?
>>80352450
>Because it is the only moral way to allocate resources. The governments gun is both immoral and inefficient.
But it's not, and it isn't. I don't know why I'm arguing with an anarchist, but regardless, inefficiency is not an ultimate evil. It is acceptable in some cases.
>Bastiat
Yeah, no. Next you'll link me to Mises, right?
>>80352282
Oh, now I see.
A Central Bank/Federal Reserve is LITERALLY MUH COMMUNISM.
Pic related, thanks for the clarification.
>>80352370
lol
Good one, toothpaste.
>>80346098
Why don't you check out some of the big corporations and see how much they spend on research and development?
>>80349225
Mostly by private companies.
>>80352251
It's the old, "I-like-getting-raped-in-the-ass-and-so-should-you!" argument.
>>80351470
you don't waste money. Money is air.
Instead to correct you we "waste" resources and time. That's the only valuable thing we have in this fcking world.
>>80352577
Considering that no libertarian society exists in the real world... no, there are no libertarian answers for the threat of overwhelming force.
