AtheismMoralsChoose one
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>Atheism
>Morals
Choose one
I chose to choose both and there ain't shit you can do about it.
I choose neither
>implying morals have anything to do with religion
You can be moral without religion
why can't christians define christianity?
Morals isn't induced by religion.
I am moral. I don't need incentive nor a threat of eternal flames to be a decent human being.
>>80320793
yet the people who do not follow religion tend to favour communist ideals
>>80320793
Can you define moral?
>>80320844
Following the bible
>>80320844
Christianity is the practice of following the teachings of Jesus Christ.
That wasn't hard
>>80320968
Actually, following the path Jesus left. Only jews and other sects "follow" the bible word for word.
You can still be an atheist and agree that the 10 commandments are something you should follow.
I chose atheism. Who needs morals?
>>80321088
>Only jews and other sects "follow" the bible word for word.
Jews don't follow the new testament
Why would Atheism preclude lack of morality?
>>80320940
Because communist thinkers bundled atheism along with their bullshit, so most communists are atheists.
This does not necessarily mean atheists will be communists.
>>80321122
>You shall have no other gods before Me.
>You shall not make idols.
>You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
>Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Why the fuck should someone who isn't religious have any reason to follow these "morals"? 4/10 of the commandments aren't even morals, just rules YHWH decided.
The only good morals are the other 6, but I don't need some rock scribbling to tell me not to murder and steal.
>>80320497
Atheism does not imply there are no morals.
However, I would argue that morality is just as much of a spook as God.
>>80320497
What is ethics?
If you require the threat of heaven or hell to be moral, you act out of fear and not a deeper moral obligation, you are therefore not a morally sound person to begin with.
This is the definition of existential bad faith, you deny yourself the choice via acceptance of fear mongering. You should be a good person for the sake of yourself and a pursuit of an identity that's by nature a good person. You are the main character of your story, you choose the role you play.
>>80320497
>Morals
>Real
Choose one
>>80321375
>This does not necessarily mean atheists will be communists.
yeah, *only* 3/4ths of them
https://secularpolicyinstitute.net/numbers-voting-habits-and-what-they-mean/
>Socialist presidential-hopefuls are the most divisive—and the least popular—candidates, displacing atheists for this dubious honor, with only 74% of the non-religious, 46% of Catholics, and 28% of Protestants willing to vote for a socialist candidate.
Nationalism and religion go hand in hand. Lack of belief in a higher purpose and lack of tribal unity swaps control of a people by inherent, willing work for the good of your people with forced, tyrannical control by a communist state.
>being religious
>2016
literally cucking yourself out of your own life by a book filled with an ancient towelhead's ramblings
>>80320497
I choose neither
>I need the threat of punishment from an omnipotent being to have morals
>i believe objectivity is real
>>80322223
>I make up my own morality so therefore I am moral
>>80322466
>implying that isn't what religion is
cmon now
>>80320497
Many people that are atheists are good people. However, atheism does not have an argument against the hedonism and materialism that is consuming our society.
Religion is a fucking joke.
Only a fucking retard would believe some shit a dumb nigger wrote down in a book 2,000 years ago. A book that disagrees with all observed geological and biological realities.
>>80322551
>and religion does
lmao
>>80322518
>Implying that isn't what you're doing right now
New atheist pls
>STUPID CHRISTFAGS. MORALITY IS COMPLETELY SUBJECTIVE.
>HOWEVER, YOU SHOULD FOLLOW MY PERSONAL VIEWS ON MORALITY
I'm not even religious, but atheists really are this fucking retarded.
>>80322711
>HOWEVER, YOU SHOULD FOLLOW MY PERSONAL VIEWS ON MORALITY
Nobody says that.
Once again, why would Atheism preclude lack of morality?
Where is the argument for this?
>>80322711
Literally what? That's what Christians dude, maybe you should check yourself. You want everyone to behave according to your morals. Cancer.
>>80322586
>Luke 8:14 - "The seed which fell among the thorns, these are the ones who have heard, and as they go on their way they are choked with worries and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to maturity."
>>80321564
>You shall have no other gods before Me.
>You shall not make idols.
>You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.
Aethiests dont break any of these rules though unless they fedora debate people who believe in god
>>80320497
morals
EZ BB
Morally good actions are simply those that benefit society and the individuals within society. You don't need a book to be a good person.
>>80320497
ywn fuck starchild's tight pussy while she cries
>>80322921
And fedoras are repulsed to any kind of religion, like any other religion does when they conflicts with another.
Theres no way of running from this, is undeniable that atheism is something close to a cult these days
>>80322780
They do it all the time by pretending that the logic behind their personal sense of morality is self-evident.
>THERE IS NO OBJECTIVE REALITY AND THERE IS NO GOD EITHER. JUST BE GOOD WITHOUT REALITY OR GOD.
Uhh... okay.... can you please explain why I shouldn't rape, murder, or steal if I feel that is best for me?
>AH DUHHHHH YOU JUST DONT DO THAT SORT OF THING. ITS JUST BECAUSE. THIS IS 2016 DO I REALLY NEED TO EXPLAIN THIS TO YOU???
>>80322551
Self control out of self interest
People can moderate their own behavior if they are properly educated. They don't need moral codes to do it.
>>80323116
So then it's morally good to execute the homeless?
>>80323231
You should if you want to senpai.
>>80323362
That's not good for the individual, so no. Reread my post.
>>80323246
Why should anybody practice self control and how is it in their interest?
>>80323152
I will dream of this tonight.
Why is Murder wrong?
>>80323431
>>80323431
>That's not good for the individual
yes it is
>>80323554
Not the homeless guy. I agree with you they are a burden on society and it would be better without them, but it is still morally wrong to murder them.
>>80322551
national socialism is the answer
>>80323523
Because being fat, heroin addicted and suffering from AIDS is not exactly in my interest.
>>80320497
>religious people
>morals
Choose one.
>>80322921
If you are not a Christian then I don't see and reason to follow christian morality
If there's no god and no punishment for being "immoral" (however you can define that without an objective moral authority) then why be moral?
>>80323246
And yet isn't the very turmoil of this world a result of human interests conflicting with one another? While I would like to believe my fellow man is capable of self-control, I certainly agree that a form of education is necessary.
But then that brings the question of what exactly an "education" is. A moral code imbued by society as a whole? Where did these codes come from?
>>80320844
Seems kinda easy to me.
Matthew 22:36-40New International Version (NIV)
36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
>>80323696
If that's what you want out of life then why shouldn't you do it? You've just replaced your dogmatic religious cult with a new one.
>>80323541
it's not always wrong
and if those camps weren't where they were, Poland would be a cucked leftist country today
>>80322575
>posts a tail buttplug
>>80323732
Because people like kindness
Why do like people like kindness?
Because doing the minimal and getting good results is appealing.
Therefore being kind is less effort and we get help from others for our personal goals
Deep down we're using everyone else for our own personal needs.
Really fucks you up if you think about it too hard.
>>80320706
are you the town rapist
>>80320497
Both
>you are a simplistic fucktard.
>>80320916
Why do you do it, though?
I'm not religious, but find it harder and harder not to become amoral and just say 'fuck everyone else'.
>>80323657
>but it is still morally wrong to murder them.
And if the only source of morality is subjective, then I can simply disagree with you.
If you cant explain why something is immoral, then it is moral
>>80322134
gay
>>80322587
You are so blind it's hilarious. I love you, please never change.
>He actually believes this, adorable.
>>80320497
I choose the righteous path of Christ
>>80323971
>Because people like kindness
>Why do like people like kindness?
That would imply that the universal source of morality is simply based on things you like.
Which begs the question: Who gives a fuck what you like?
>>80324181
what a great argument lad
>>80324181
(You)
>>80323971
>Correct answer.
>>80323750
>But then that brings the question of what exactly an "education" is.
A proper education gives people judgement and decision making skills. No need to impose moral codes.
> isn't the very turmoil of this world a result of human interests conflicting with one another?
Much of it is. However, cooperation in a society also stems from self interest. This is why we have laws and courts that protect our interests.
>>80324235
>>80324470
>what a great argument lad
4 u
Foolish Christians, accept that your religion is just a watered down Platonism and join your fellow patricians in seeking out the wisdom to contemplate the One & Beautiful.
What you fags fail to understand is that atheism is the ultimate red pill for maximum rationality if it was self derived. However, sheeple en masses and will fall for either religion or atheist memes. And since the atheism meme has no moral backbone without critcal thought, trial and error, it is the prime breeding ground for dengeracy. The religion meme is simply more stable for healthy society but objectively fail as a philosiphy for scientific progress(still can be christian scientist though).
>>80320497
>Christianity
>Kike on a stick semitic cult
Choose both
>>80324470
No problem bloke
>>80324545
#NotAllUnicorns
>>80321072
The book none of you can agree on as far as what it says? I dont think you thought this question out.
>>80321122
You, sir, are fucking retarded. Please re-read the commandments and the definition of atheism, and then jump off a bridge.
>>80322587
The bible advocates slavery, do you think that is moral?
>>80320497
she's jewish
lel
>>80324711
>The bible advocates slavery, do you think that is moral?
Are you an atheist that thinks slavery is immoral?
Can you objectively prove that?
>>80324711
>Morality
>Real
>Slavery
>Real
You're so fucking blue pilled
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBMTccP1hY4
>>80320497
So you're saying there are no theists without moral?
>>80320497
what is the video of this chick saying "what is your name" and it says Europa and it turns into a scene of a german and a brit or something fighting side by side?
>>80324880
>You're so fucking blue pilled
Youre so fucking gay
>Religion
>Moral
How come prision populations are more religious than the national average in every country that provides such statistics?
>>80320497
By this logic niggers are more moral than whites.
This is an obvious slide thread.
>There are happenings faggots.
>>80324880
.....what are you attempting to say here? Give me an argument or gtfo
>>80324486
There's no doubt that all human actions are the result of self-interest, theist and atheist alike.
What do you mean by judgement and decision making skills? Judgement not to inflict pain on another person when the risk of it conflicting with your self-interest is too great? What happens when there is no inherent risk to one's self interest in hurting or "cheating" another person?
>>80324992
Nice statistics
>>80320497
I chose atheism, and I agree with your dichotomy. There are no universal morals, because there is not a universal creator. Each person picks their own values.
>>80323971
All you're saying is be nice because it sometimes gets you ahead, that's not an argument to be moral.
>>80320497
Yes christians are retarded but conservatism and morality doesnt really makes sense. You are fine gassing innocent civilians but you lose your shit when a homo gets married....
>>80325211
That's fine and dandy, but how do you generate reasonable disagreements?
If everyone simply picks and chooses, you admit that all values are equally arbitrary. You actually support the crazy towel-heads killing people as being as justified as a person donating to charity.
>>80325103
>What happens when there is no inherent risk to one's self interest in hurting or "cheating" another person?
We protect ourselves by creating such risks in the form of laws and law enforcement.
Also, I doubt many people simply want to hurt others just to hurt others. There is more to self interest than material gain. I don't want to live in a society of pricks and assholes. I like being kind and I like when people are kind. I do not insist that there is some inherent "goodness" about it.
>>80324971
nvm found it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rg8innCuN4
>>80325211
Nihilism isn't a required part of atheism. Generally speaking, everyone who isn't a sociopath understands basic morality. Even wild animals have instincts to help the pack even when it's at a personal cost.
>>80326526
Why be moral?
>>80325912
Yet as we see laws are frequently broken without repercussion. Laws are only effective when they are proven to have been broken.
Suppose I hurt my company discreetly by embezzling money. I take enough to satisfy my self-interest yet not nearly enough for the company to notice or for it to tank. Would such an action even be considered as harmful?
>>80322037
>If you require the threat of heaven or hell to be moral, you act out of fear and not a deeper moral obligation, you are therefore not a morally sound person to begin with.
Right. God wants all people to fear him, not the world.
>>80320497
>Never hearing of the non agresssion principle
>>80326071
>Russia
>White
>>80326900
I never said laws are perfect and are never broken. In fact that's what I'm arguing against. No such objective moral system exists.
All we have is ourselves, the world we live in and what we do with it is what we get.
My original reply was to a post about hedonism and materialism consuming our society. If there is really a reason to care about our society, we would have an interest in fixing it and educated people would be equipped to see that.
>>80327775
Ah I see what you are saying. So you'd consider yourself a nihilist.
Some of the greatest inventions were made by nihilists.
>>80320497
who is this semen demon
>>80320497
Morals are derived logically from logic intrinsic of God's universe; things to be discovered, just like anything else he's given us. Therefore a moral atheist is not out of the question.
Its the straw nihilists you gotta be edgy around...
>>80323835
If someone reflects inward and finds that it is truly what they want, then that is what they will do. However, I think you will find that the vast majority of people who are fat are not looking to be fat, that the addicted are not happy to be addicted and that the diseased are not happy to be diseased.
Atheists have zero reasons to moral. You all believe that theres nothing after death so who cares what you do on earth? Its all pointless
>>80320497
>intellectualism
>religion
Choose one
>>80328098
I've actually never looked into works by nihilists.
I also kind of avoid the term because people misconstrue it with thinking that nothing at all exists in any shape or form. Although, I do deny -certainty- of anything, but I think empiricism is enough to assume that what our senses perceive is a real external world.
>>80326639
Ultimately, because because you want to be. That's the type of person you want to be.
You're free to not be selfishly immoral in today's society, legal issues aside. Ostracization means death to pack animals in the wild, but in modern society you're more or less free to be a repugnant waste of space.
>>80320497
>choosing social constructs
Yeah nah
>>80328589
....You actually believe the dumb shit you just typed out? Look up: the golden rule. Why wouldnt you want to maximize the amount of good in your life? If others have that same outlook, they'll want to improve themselves and the world around them. God doesn't give you morals anyway dummy, he clouds it with nonsense. You use your own set of morals outside of the religion.
>>80328589
Because there is nothing after death, isnt the logical reasoning to try make things better in this world instead of waiting for an idyllic afterlife?
Is the threat of eternal hellfire is all keeping you in check? Would you behave like an irrational animal if you knew for a fact there is no god?
Do you weight any choice you make against the potential of extra centuries in hell?
Why would an atheist do the opposite?
>>80329651
Because maximizing the amount of good cane easily come at the expense of others.
If I, myself, was willing to risk some terrible thing X happening to me then I might assume it would be fine for others to do so. Then we have a justification for raping and pillaging, etc.
>>80329651
Your going to die and nothing you did mattered. Why do you care
>>80330113
> to try make things better in this world
For who and at what cost and by which means? What do you mean by better?
Choose Islam for best morals.
>>80330204
I'll say it again.
LOOK UP: THE GOLDEN RULE
Not to mention, I don't think it would be fun to hurt people. God has done that in the bible many times, do religious people get that from him too or?
>>80330228
We are all gonna die and nothing we've done will matter. Even our solar system and our universe. So what?
>>80330234
For us and the people we care about, at any cost we care to affront.
Better meaning any definition that conveys an existential improvement over our current state.
>>80330228
>Your going to die and nothing you did mattered.
Very few people are mentally ill enough to feel this way. Everyone values something outside of themselves to some degree, even if it is your own work or legacy living on.
A wrist-slitting nihilist faggot wouldn't be saved by a belief in God. If anything, it would probably aggravate their condition as they try to rationalize an existence where God has abandoned them.
>>80330591
>For us and the people we care about, at any cost we care to affront.
So if one cared about the Aryan race and saw gassing the kikes as a means to improve their wellbeing it would be justified
>>80320497
>False Dilemma Fallacy
>Imaginative Debate
Choose one
>>80330228
Because existence is all we have. We provide our own purposes, wanting the best for everyone in their group is something even animals understand. I worry about people like you.
>>80330772
Only if you also lack basic human empathy, and therefore have no sense of right and wrong.
If you have empathy for members of your species, you can't rationalize mass murder UNLESS something or someone has made you believe your own, your people and way of life's survival depends on it. But this situation can apply to theists as well in the form of holy wars.
>>80330591
Exactly>>80330699
your attemptimg to find meaning in literally Nothing for no reason. Why? Necause it makes you feel good? >>80330528
They were evil. Idk what else you want me to say on that subject m8
>>80330923
My dog kills squirrels amd possums for shits and giggles. She clearly understands your moral system.
She also hates most other dogs
>>80331163
I wish religious people didn't attempt to ask stupid questions thinking they were good "gotcha" questions, instead of just having a discussion regarding the topic. It would make them look a lot less retarded and a little bit more honest.
>>80331163
> no sense of right and wrong.
What is right? Is being moral right? You just said improving the world for those you love no matter the cost is moral?
>>80331583
If you argue with people wh5l answer questions with more questions you deserved it
>>80331402
No, that's called being mentally ill. Science can gauge things like this on a spectrum.
>>80320793
Kantian ethics are about as close to morals as atheists get AFAIK. They tend to lean far left mostly and usually end up in the more Jewish spectrum of communist.
>>80330528
There are several golden rules, the most well known are actually about being moderate in all things. Though I understand that you intend to use the 'do unto others as you would have done to yourself' version.
The question remains: You have a person who is willing to be hurt in pursuit of plunder, etc. If I grabbed a viking or a mongol and said, "hey, man, how would you feel if I pillaged you?" they would likely just accept that as one of the risks of doing their preferred business.
You have to already agree on a set of values in order to mutually agree upon what is harmful.
See: Military boot camp indoctrination. I'm sure many people would be horrified of some of the shit they do to each other, but everyone in there agrees. How do we discern where certain behaviors are accepted and not accepted.
>>80320863
Morals aren't created by religion but religion is the tool used to promote standards of behavior much like learning a skill through an apprenticeship. You get also get things such as community and charity through these groups on top of education.
>>80331810
I'm fine with the discussion and dishonest questions, aside from it being incredibly revealing its fun.
>>80331178
>your attemptimg to find meaning in literally Nothing for no reason. Why? Necause it makes you feel good?
if you cant find meaning in life without theism is your own character flaw.
>>80331589
Right and wrong are party social constructs, but any human society that promotes human empathy and peaceful coexistence will share a very basic, universal form of "good". And hurting other people for your own benefit will never be part of it.
Also i said "at any cost we care to affront", so pls dont flat out misquote.
>>80331884
How on earth would you interpret Kantian ethics as left-leaning or Jewish?
Kant's entire project was basically trying to save the moral absolutism of a divine creator by placing him outside of the phenomenal realm and into a state of pure reason.
Hegel was about as right-leaning as philosopher get. He cheered Napoleon as he conquered the fuck out of everyone.
The 'leftist Hegelians' basically just stole his tools and used them to talk about something different, or happened to be his students for a period of time and then did their own thing.
>>80331811
No its called being a dog idiot
>>80331583
I think both sides are guilty of this kind of thinking. It's just that since more people tend to be religious by nature we become a lot more exposed to THAT demographic. A bigger pool of people tends to lead to more vocal idiots.
why can't christians define christianity?
>>80332166
Oh i thought you were talking about your mother.
badum tsss
>>80332118
Not a question was answered...
>>80331583
Atheists are just as bad at this, don't play yourself.
If I had a nickel for every smug twitter screengrab or Black Science Man quote I'd be able to buy, like, a new graphics card or something.
>>80332160
I wasn't comparing Kantian Ethics to being Jewish. The actual comparison was atheism in general in the USA. Most atheists lean heavily left in the USA and of course are indoctrinated to these failed theories and systems.
>>80332283
Ad hominem
Well played. You got me
>>80320497
God I want to destroy this little semen demon.
Without atheism to instill non-religious laws you'd all be diddling kiddies by now. I guess that's what you want though.
>>80320497
OP is wrong - it's possible to have atheism and moral. They aren't mutually exclusive.
Religious dictates is what contaminates morals.
>Christianity invented morality
>Not moderates curtailing what is acceptable for the religious to do over the course of time
>Morality in general
>Not constantly changing
>Theists seriously think you need a carrot on the end of an imaginary stick to get you to not kill, steal, rape, etc.
I'm more disgusted at the implication that the only thing keeping you from acting like a heathen is the promise of eternal carrots.
>>80332197
I've never posed a question as dishonest as something like this>>80330228
>>80332399
No, and thats mainly because religious claims are based on utter nonsense.
>God totally didn't agree to slavery and give ways to treat your slave!
The mental gymnastics are insane. The default position isn't a hard one to grasp.
>>80332660
It was a two part joke. Admit it was good now.
Wait, were you serious about your dog being a dog?
>>80320844
Practicing the teachings of Jesus Christ
>morals
>not a social construct
Choose one.
>>80333119
But Jesus is a fictional figure from a roman propaganda pamphlet.
Atheism in the modern day is equally as fanatical and religious as contemporary Christianity. Morality exists in the same way as religion.
>>80332972
Some people are busy with their daily toil in the soil so religion fills that need and gap for moral instruction of how to act in society without further input.
>>80320497
back to /b faggot
>>80331893
Am I colonizing something? I'm not sure what you're attempting at here, it's not working out for you though.
>>80332972
Im saying theres nothing stopping the atheist from acting lime a heathen. They can be moral obviously.
>>80333003
So you're denying that there is an enormous prevalence of smug, college aged atheists facebooking. or redditing whatever, seemingly clever but ultimately totally vacuous 'gotcha!' quotes floating around on the internet?
Both sides are guilty of insular circlejerking, as most group tend to be.
>>80333225
That isn't a rebuttal to what he said?
>>80333225
Wrong, Jesus Christ is real and he judges our souls. If you reject Him and live an amoral lifestyle, you're going to Hell for eternity.
Want proof? People noticed his empty tomb. You're just in denial of God's presence.
>>80320497
it doesn't matter. nothing does. searching for meaning in life, or anything in life for that matter, is entire futile. everything dies, in the end.
>>80333334
Well lets be a relativist about everything why dont we
>>80333065
No my dogs a rat
Ha
>>80333401
>jesus
>not yhwh
Wew.
>>80333268
It seems we're on different wavelengths here, my friend. I'm insisting that the Golden Rule isn't sufficient to give you grounded moral statements because it relies on all participants having roughly the same idea of what is good.
If two different groups have different ideas about what is good, the golden rule won't get you anywhere.
>>80333455
Why would we want to do that? I'm just pointing out that it would be hypocritical to call out one side if both sides are doing it.
>>80333277
Nothing is keeping a religious person from doing these things either. God presumably doesn't fling lightning at wrongdoers to stop them.
It is, in practice, completely immaterial what prevents you from doing bad things.
If the threat of God's eternal judgement keeps me from murder then it is no matter for dispute.
If merely possessing empathy and a grasp of dire consequences from the penal system keeps me from murder than it is immaterial.
>>80333225
>Mexican Intellectuals
>>80332118
Believing in God isn't a character flaw. Just saying.
>>80333003
Maybe you haven't posed a question like that, but that doesn't mean plenty of other atheists haven't either. That would be like lumping me in with YECs just because I'm Christian. There's a lot of shit-flinging on both sides, and despite the amount of fedora tipping communist kiddos I see online I don't assume that you're one of them because you're atheist. That kind of thinking just comes off as smug and doesn't lead to any healthy debate.
>>80320497
> Biblical literalism
> IQ above 0
pick one.
>>80320497
Atheism is like Islam. It's too interpreted to be beneficial to humanity.
>>80333612
>implying they aren't the same god
Did you forget your fedora?
>>80320497
>religion
>morals
>kill others in the name of your god
>morals
>violently attack non-believers
>morals
>torture and maim innocent people
>morals
Atheism has never killed another human being in the name of a being they can't even prove exists.
Checkmate, Christcucks.
>>80333277
That's true of course. Religion is like a compass that helps guide people towards philosophy. You have to work to earn philosophy so developing your own set of morals is no easy task for most of the population. This is where religion comes in and provides philosophical teachings and morals. Atheism wouldn't work for most of society as it is now without the former.
>>80333686
But jail is real. Hell is our eternal jail. Jail is temporary. Hell is forever
Also what the hell is this storefront vaptcha shit
>>80333401
>Want proof? People noticed his empty tomb.
And we know this how? Because somebody scribbled it down on some parchment 2000 years ago?
> I can write things down, too
>>80320626
But where does morality come from?
Ok i really tought that this place was beign jokinjg about the whole religion stupidity.
Is there really that many christcucks in here?
Are they always that annoying?
>>80333921
Does it really matter what the Casus Belli is for war?
>>80333921
>christ
>killing
>ever
Leave
>>80334019
There is evidence jail exists. You can measure jail.
Neither of these things can be said of hell.
>>80334095
Probably evolutionary psychology for pack survival and cohesion combined with at least minimal amounts of logic.
>>80324711
He defined Christianity I don't see your qualm.
>>80320497
Why should atheists be moral?
Not in a social sense, after all who cares and that's subjective to the social sphere, why should atheists have ideals or existential morals?
>>80333953
I liked how you put this>>80333895
Dont .make fun of me
>>80334173
>Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
>>80333478
wot
>>80334155
Yes. Even if it's fraudulent, as religion is entirely. It matters. Any excuse to kill another human has to bear responsibility for it.
>>80334173
>christ
>not some half crazy jew
>LARPing with his disciples
>inspiring useful idiots by the millions, taking advantage of their weakness
>millions dead because of this
>>80320497
>islam
>>80334330
>Should
That's a bit meaningless. Why shouldn't I be good to my fellow man? It has tangible benefits. I feel good when I help people. I like making people smile.
>>80333669
Yes, i don't simply rely on the golden rule. Jesus christ why do I have to even say this? Even if they dont have the same idea of what is good at least its somewhere close. We have laws for a reason.
>>80334212
Me and you both know you cant use any earthly means to find evidence of hell.
Also most people arent afraid of jail anyway. Crime is done within the establisment so nothing of value has truly came frome then other than housing criminals amd creating them but thats another topic
>>80333921
Remove God from the equasion and your moraily turns to the state. Communism killed millions. I thought this meme was old
>>80320497
1 post by this ID
>>80325049
it must be exhausting being as paranoid as you
>>80334382
Yes hell come to fight the last war. Give me one instance where jesus christ kills a man
>>80320497
>>80321944
Underrated post.
>>80334367
>I liked how you put this
Thanks. It will be interesting to see if there is a way or change for atheism in the USA to at least to overcome what seems to be magnetic attraction to nihilism. It's a pattern and not all of course fall into that trap. Wish we had access to more data but it takes time.
>>80334464
>millions dead because of retarded humans
Ftfy unless jesus preached mass murder then ill leave
>>80333669
>If two different groups have different ideas about what is good, the golden rule won't get you anywhere.
Every human society that has survived and thrived well into the modern era, has necessarily many things in common with each other. An internal set of rules or laws that encourage and enable peaceful existence and conflict resolution is one of those common things. The golden rule is a meta-guideline that encompasses a generalized form of existence that tries to pre-emptively avoid conflict.
>>80335042
But religion isnt a compass for morals.
>>80335042
If most atheists worked toward a better future for mankind instead of memeimg at theists then that would help
>>80333706
>ad hominem
>>80333712
>Believing in God isn't a character flaw. Just saying.
Thinking life has no meaning without god is. This one of the reasons why jihadists justify killing infidels.
There's a lot of Christians doing life in prison.
Religion does nothing.
>>80335398
>humans arent perfect
Who knew
I act morally because I am a rational human being who knows how not to be degenerate, not because I have some book reminding me in the back of my head.
>incoming fedora
>>80334095
Empathy you defective sociopath. Humans developed empathy for group survival.
>Three cave men go hunting
>Bob, Jim, and Joe
>An animal is about to get away but Joe can jump onto it risking injury
>Bob kills the animal but suffers two broken limbs and a concussion
>Jim and Joe drag Bob back to camp
>Jim and Joe share their food with Bob and his family even when Bob doesn't go hunting because it feels bad to leave Bob to die and it feels good to help him
>Bob took that risk because he could rely on Jim and Joe to help him even if his risk got him maimed
Pretty much it is better for group survival if individuals are willing to take risks and by ensuring that even "useless" members of a group are cared for every individual member is more willing to take risks. After all without altruism Bob would probably just say "fuck it this deer isn't worth my life maybe we will catch one next time" which could result in starvation and perhaps members of the group or the whole group dying.
>>80335300
This is the dumbest shit i've heard on pol ever.
Religiotards are going against science and not allowing it to advance because you read a shitty book that was made a few thousand years ago by unintelligent people, and now you feel a certain way about things that would benefit the world.
and you're going to bring that horseshit of a statement in here? eat a dick, sir.
>>80320497
Atheism is the moral choice, Christnigger
>Atheism
>religious morality
Choose one
I fix it.
>>80334882
There's less direct godly murder in the New Testament. Jesus does possess a bunch of pigs and runs them off a cliff, though.
Jesus' violence comes from his rhetoric, his promises, and his criticism for people not following death orders from the Old Testament. There isn't much room for creative interpretation when Jesus says "I will kill her children with death".
>>80335647
If you cant firther science because of an old book that sounds like a personal issue. Theyre even christian scientist. Idk what your issue is
Also
>ad hominem
Everytime
>>80335647
>Religiotards are going against science and not allowing it to advance
Only in the US
Evengelicals dont have that kind of pull anywhere else; and official catholic cannon is pro/tolerant of science these days.
>>80335221
Religion is a tool for ruling or a guide depending on the circumstance in a culture/civilization. It promotes morality and philosophy and even provides governance as the state or in tandem. Competing civilizations over time developed their own systems of religion and culture. What we have left currently are the most successful civilizations and their respective religions or sects. You are not born with philosophy or morality. You have to earn it in some way yourself or be given this by a third party. Most people are fine with being given morality and structure and getting on with their lives. Life isn't fair nor equal and require these structures to function efficiently as a civilization.
>>80323696
yet people still are. and choose to be. this is why a moral code is needed.
>>80335902
Silly goose, I made a point and then reminded you you're a dummy. If you want to play victim go ahead.
And no, if you dont understand how voting works then I wont even bother with you. Also
>Christian Scientists
You're a walking fallacy, and a complete retard. Now play the victim more.
>>80335921
No it doesn't. If you disagree with slavery then you're more moral than your god.
>>80320497
This argument is why atheists have so much insecurity about morality that they have to virtue signal how good and moral they are. So thanks Christians, you made leftists in what they are
>>80335056
It doesn't matter what he preached.
His teachings led to millions of dead people, and at no point in the killing did any God ever step in to prevent it.
God doesn't exist. Jesus was a madman. Religion is right up there with the worst humanity has to offer.
>>80336400
How is it that an argument?
It is the definition of
Not
An
Argument
>>80320497
I'm an atheist, and I keep mostly Christian values. It rarely hurts me to be good (and I do sometimes gain benefits from being good), so why stop being good?
>>80335854
>jesus posses pigs
Kek. The demons possesed them and they jumped off because they couldnt handle them
>>80336468
This is the problem with religion. You can point it out and express how its ideology is the basis for what has happened in the past, and all they look for is another ridiculous "gotcha" instead of understanding what is being said.
>>80336468
We told Jesus to sacrifice himself for your sins... and he did it the absolute madman!
>>80336347
Youve said nothing of value. Congrats
>>80336468
If you understood god you qould understamd why he doeant step it. Research the bible some of your going to tey amd refute it.
Also the last time god intervened and mans affair heabily was whem he wiped out am entire poulation
>>80335718
No, any attempt at non-religious morality just becomes another religion.
>>80336713
>atheist
>admits he keeps christiam morals
I like you
>>80336937
to be fair, its a weak argument.
attributing to religion itself the disparate interpretation and subversion of what an old book says to suit a political agenda; is like attributing to science itself the misuse of technology to enable genocide and environmental collapse
>>80337053
Now you know how I feel replying to you this whole time.
>>80336347
>No it doesn't. If you disagree with slavery then you're more moral than your god.
Religion doesn't make you more moral or immoral and neither does atheism. The same would apply with slavery.
FWIW I'm actually an agnostic.
>>80337592
Don't tell me that, i'm not the one claiming the other group doesn't have morals.
>The same would apply with slavery.
I'm not understanding what you mean by this
>>80337583
Then you had no real reason to reply to me in the first place. Nice
>>80337053
>claims to truly understand god
>spends his nights arguing on 4chinz
i guess theists and atheists arent that different at all
>>80338011
I was looking at happenimg threads. Also i dont see how the to relate senpai
>>80337842
People like you are the reason why I became an atheist. Why wouldn't I say something?
>>80320497
Teach children religion, once their old enough explain to them it was so theyd understand right and wrong. Then red pill them.
>>80338594
>>80338011
>>80337592
>>80337190
>>80337124
>>80336468
After the annihilation of faith the secular humanist thinks to put in to the supposedly safe harbour of love. “The first and highest law must be the love of man to man. Homo homini Deus est – this is the supreme practical maxim, this is the turning point of the world’s history.” But, properly speaking, only the god is changed – the deus; love has remained: there love to the superhuman God, here love to the human God, to homo as Deus. Therefore man is to me – sacred. And everything “truly human” is to me – sacred! “Marriage is sacred of itself. And so it is with all moral relations. Friendship is and must be sacred for you, and property, and marriage, and the good of every man, but sacred in and of itself.” Haven’t we the priest again there? Who is his God? Man with a great M! What is the divine? The human! Then the predicate has indeed only been changed into the subject, and, instead of the sentence “God is love,” they say “love is divine”; instead of “God has become man,” “Man has become God,” etc. It is nothing more or less than a new – religion. “All moral relations are ethical, are cultivated with a moral mind, only where of themselves (without religious consecration by the priest’s blessing) they are counted religious. “ The secular humanist’s proposition, “Theology is anthropology,” means only “religion must be ethics, ethics alone is religion.
>>80338598
Yeah, that'll make them trust you. Teach them shit that isn't real and then tell them that later. Also, i'm not sure how many times this needs to be explained but things in the bible aren't morally sound. Be an actual parent and teach your kid right vs wrong maybe?
>>80338501
well every single christian mystic since the middle ages has struggled all their life to understand god yet no one has matched your bold claim to have succeded at it, jews believe its outside of human understanding and muslims believe its an offense to even try
so i guess you are the first one in all history to have reached such enlightened status
and yet you live in the exact same way as us atheists
kinda dissapointing, dont you think?
It's almost as if everyone in this thread ate some fruit that had metaphysical powers of giving the consumer knowledge of good and evil. Oh please give me another circular argument that moral is good is beneficial is happy joy joy feelings. Does anyone want to admit morality is an abstract concept thus not of the physical world made of neither mass nor energy. Kind of like science. Bring me grams, meters, and seconds you worship. I shall be amused. Logic dictates that metaphysics is deity thus theism thus not atheism. There can be no objective morality with atheism, only subjective morality which is not universally good.
>Be American
>Get shot
You have no choice not to be shot.
>>80338782
>copypasting from stirner's the ego and its own
nice """"opinions""""
>>80320497
Oh man, i really loved the NeverEnding Story when i was a little kid, i think the "worst part was the very ending when that dog dragon appered in the real world, but it was goo still.
This is not an Argument.
>>80337818
>Don't tell me that, i'm not the one claiming the other group doesn't have morals.
I never claimed atheists didn't have morals.
>>The same would apply with slavery.
>I'm not understanding what you mean by this
I'll try to clear this up. Slavery is only moral or immoral based on your civilization/culture. Native Americans took slaves as did many civs over our history. Were they moral or immoral? If you were indoctrinated into that culture it would seem moral would it not? Do you believe good and evil exist or are they just constructs? Reality isn't so black and white to put it another way.
>>80339053
>you aren't allowed to agree with other peoples' opinions and take their viewpoints
OKAY!
>>80338782
Of course a religious nut can't simply put forth a claim without preaching. When you prove to me slavery is moral then i'll agree with you.
>>80339136
So you believe in slavery?
>>80339192
LOL he's talking about atheists you retard. Anti-theists who reject god yet acknowledge any abstract value behind humanity and adamantly preach ethics are as fanatical as the religious is what he's trying to say.
>>80338830
Yea trying to understand why god does what he does would drive one insane. I realise he operates outside of our reality. Idk whats so hard about that. I wouldnt expect someone like you to understand that.
What you described was people trying to figure out what mysterious ways god works in.
>>80320497
Christianity is a middle eastern plague that was set on Europe ~2000 years ago. It isn't the tradition or belief of our ancestors, regardless of how many were brainwashed by it over the last millennium or two.
Atheists are fine, there's nothing bluepilled about believing there's no god. I hate how in many people's minds it gets reduced to left wing liberal atheists and right wing traditional white European Christians. I'm a right wing European atheist and I consider myself pretty redpilled. Keep believing one of the great Semitic lie. Love, forgiveness, and tolerance. Good goy.
I see many here are making a very flawed argument against atheism; it's a matter of how you perceive the world, not choosing what is preferable.
Everyone is afraid of death and I would love to believe in an eternal afterlife and being looked after by an all powerful, loving entity; it's not out of some stubborn edginess that I refuse to admit it.
Just like how no matter how much I wish an invisible magic leprechaun would leave a pot of gold in my kitchen if I type "thnx Mr.Irish" I still know it isn't true.
Many belief systems are beneficial but that doesn't make them true.
>>80338782
Is it not already a given that in the absence of an observable deity, Man himself is his own God, master of his fate and in direct control of his own environment by means of his own will?
Checkmate, Christcucks.
>>80339275
>So you believe in slavery?
My position on slavery isn't relevant. If I said yes how would you respond? What about no? Finally what if I said I don't know?
>>80339485
Ill say it again in a simpler way:
casually claiming to "truly understand god" and yet spending your time in the same exact way people who dont believe in god do, only makes you sound full of shit
>>80339341
You're right, I only read the end, which is utterly false garbage. Preachy bullshit bores me.
>>80320497
Take this crap back to /b/ faggot.
>>80339812
Way to deflect. Answer the question fence sitter.
>>80339759
Yes, although man as a cohesive collective is a spook and does not exist in the exact same way as God, and therefore for man to be master of himself he must likewise cast off the shackles of morality itself.
>checkmate, Christcucks
If you want to argue with a religious Christian, then you're arguing with the wrong person.
>>80339829
Humans aren't perfect. Thats also in the bible. Or do you forget that? It seems your holdimg christians to a higher standard than they do
>>80340009
actually it was directed at whatever christian hangers on that are still in this thread
The berncucks and mentally hill from reddit are raiding again
>>80339829
Understand that humans arent perfect. Even the bible preaches we arent so i dont understand why your trying to make it seem like christians are supposed to be perfect. You can't refute what you don't kmow
>>80340018
no. i only hold in a higher standard someone who claims to "truly understand god"
a claim no one even a little knowledgeable of religion would make
How do people lived before the Abrahamic religions? Has there been a moral revolution with the arrival of Abrahamic religions?
>>80320497
imbecile.
>>80340826
ironically it's only gotten worse
religion is not responsible at all for scientific advancement, though OP would just love to claim otherwise, because he's a delusional nigger.
>>80340826
hellenistic greece and pre-constantine roman empire all are pre-abrahmic
if anything, religion heralded the dark ages
>>80320497
If you need religion to have morals, you're probably a sociopath
>>80341483
this
>>80341483
Morality is its own religion. See
>>80338782
>>80320497
>not knowing muh secular etics
>talking shit
Yuri is laughing at you.
I recognize why religion is a thing, and why it was necessary to development of early human cultures and societies.
The thing is that we have culturally advanced beyond that.
>Respect your paernts is a commandment
And what if you're a child of a hooker and a drug dealer? Respect them? Fuck that.
Respect can only earned, no one is entitled to respect.
Neitzhe is more moral that the Bible.
>I love builders, they build houses for the Ubermensh to live in in the future
>Love your enemy for he compells you to struggle and achieve
>Treat your children as your greatest achievement, Live to make children better than yoursel and therefore make humanity better and closer to Ubermensh.
Secular morals are more advanced and creative that Christian ones. Christanity was needed as a scare to hold slaves in line in fear of god, now we have better ideas that can take us literally to the stars.
It's ateists who first went to space.
Gagarin literally said publicly.
>I've been above the sky and i've seen no god up there,
>>80341771
>>80338782
shut the fuck up
>>80341771
>See something i proved myself and is totally true gais
no.
>>80342015
You can't have morals without practicing some kind of religion. The overthrow of God simply meant worship was being shifted from God to Man. It's nothing more than a change of masters from the Christian god to humanity with a capital H.
>I argue that it's moral to respect other people
>what's moral is synonymous with what's good
>it's good to respect other people
>why is it good? because you must treat others the way you want to be treated
>But why are other people automatically entitled to your respect and good treatment by default?
>Because of the sanctity of humanity
>Onto Man as onto God
Man has become God, and thus man worships man. It's just another religion.
>>80337124
At least not static like religious ones. Dynamic morals would evolve over time and would not insist on its wrongs just because some old book said so.
>>80342303
>>80342051
To reiterate the countless many times this has been said over and over again on this thread, nice argument.
>>80342384
>At least not static
Okay, then you have a dynamic religion. Still a religion.
>>80342343
Goddamn you're stupid. Morals aren't an objective thing, we all have our own versions of it. We don't blindly follow them based on one thing, there are factors through reasoning that allow us to understand specifically what we are doing. This isn't some authority telling you what to do.
Are you a hipster? I think hipsters would write like this, and the content.
>>80342549
You didnt have a fucking argument to begin with dingus
>>80320844
if i pull that off will you die?
>>80342343
>But why are other people automatically entitled to your respect and good treatment by default?
>Because of the sanctity of humanity
wrong
its Because YOU are as well.
fuck off with your forced outdated scholasticism
wait, where did the crying never ending story chick thing come from anyway
I don't get this meme.
>>80342554
Last time I checked given the many religions that exist, objectivity was never a requirement to constitute a religion.
>You didnt have a fucking argument to begin with dingus
D E N I A L
>>80320497
You're a fucked up "individual" if you have to read a book first to know what's right and wrong. Fucking sheep.
>>80342549
you're just spouting words and hoping nobody will respond or argue, or hoping a similarly pretentious cunt will, because it's just a bunch of bullshit.
you're not smart. you're being retarded. shut the fuck up.
>>80342343
Except men actually exist.
>>80342549
You want to call atheism with over-changing morals a religion? Do it. But it is so much different and better than your world dominating religions such as christianity and islam.
>>80320497
Make me.
/thread
>>80342848
In other words, you demand to worship what you can see instead of what you can't. Got it.
>>80342839
You're just mad because you don't have an argument canadafag.
>>80342343
Ideology isn't a religion.
We don't pray to Ubermensh and dont think that Ubermesh will affect our lives or take us to heaven.
Ubermensh is a wishful positive image of evolution of human species to greatness in fture backed up by evolutionary theory which is proven (if Jacksl became a dog, then monkey became a human and human can become a superhuman)
We simply chose to do the best thing we can do so that we will die thinking
>At least i have helped humanity get better
about
>Respecting other people s great argument.
Do you respect ISIS?
Do you respect school shoters?
Nobody is entitled to respect.
Everybody has to earn respect. Be great and people will respect you naturally without bein commanded to.
Do you respect Ilon Musk?
I think most people do just because he';s the best human being alive, not because they have to or somethng.
>>80342954
i'm not pretending i have an argument against your bullshit. even if i did, that's not the issue.
the problem is the way you're talking, responding, and arguing, shows you need to shut the fuck up.
>>80342783
There are basically no requirements to making up a religion, its all fictional bullshit. You're equating something we use on a daily basis to a religion. Would you say the same thing with reason? If so, please have faith and walk in front of oncoming traffic.
And if you had a point, please restate your point. The amount of absolute irrelevant horseshit you typed out was unreadable.
>>80342982
>Ideology isn't a religion.
You're severely limiting your definition of religion bud.
>Do you respect ISIS?
>Do you respect school shoters?
I'm indifferent to them, because my arguments in this thread naturally follow I deny any measure of right or wrong.
I am buffled bu evolution deniers.
>Buffalo became a cow
>jackals became dogs
>Boars became pigs
>Human selected and cultivated tomatoes and agricultures to yield more and taste better than the plants out in the wild.
IT'S RIGHT IN YOUR FACE
You see evidences of genetic evolution literally every day and we're at the point where even the flat earth evangelicals aren't trying to deny that Dogs and Pigs are selectively bred from the wild animals by human.
Somehow you're trying to deny evolution of human though.
>>80343190
>because my arguments in this thread naturally follow I deny any measure of right or wrong.
>hey guise im RPing lol
>c:\reaction pics\pol\bait\rarepepe.jpg
>>80343082
Silence the opposition when you can't argue. How stereotypical. Take your own advice kid.
>>80343113
>There are basically no requirements to making up a religion, its all fictional bullshit.
Morality is by definition made up as well. You can't deny God because of his abstract deniability and likewise not follow through with morality as well when it exists in the exact same way.
>>80342343
??????
The man is standing "right here, in front of me". His interests are real.
>>80343429
>you're angry because you can't argue
i don't have anything against your argument or side. i've said i don't care about your argument, idiot.
the problem is how you are saying and phrasing things makes my head hurt with how stupid it is.
go ahead and reply and try to make it about the argument i don't care about, but just remember you need to shut the fuck up.
>>80343429
both are social constructs
but one enables society to thrive
the other piggybacks on it and taxes it
"Because this morality completed into humanity has fully settled its accounts with the religion out of which it historically came forth, nothing hinders it from becoming a religion on its own account. For a distinction prevails between religion and morality only so long as our dealings with the world of men are regulated and hallowed by our relation to a superhuman being, or so long as our doing is a doing “for God’s sake.” If, on the other hand, it comes to the point that “man is to man the supreme being,” then that distinction vanishes, and morality, being removed from its subordinate position, is completed into – religion. For then the higher being who had hitherto been subordinated to the highest, Man, has ascended to absolute height, and we are related to him as one is related to the highest being, religiously. Morality and piety are now as synonymous as in the beginning of Christianity, and it is only because the supreme being has come to be a different one that a holy walk is no longer called a “holy” one, but a “human” one. If morality has conquered, then a complete – change of masters has taken place." - Max Stirner
>>80343761
>both are social constructs
>but one enables society to thrive
Do you not see how you're making my point. Working towards the betterment of society SIMPLY FOR THE SAKE of society is by definition worship.
>>80343429
Its not "made up". If you're going to take that stance on morality then our own reasoning is made up as well. We can test out a hypothesis to see what an outcome is of something we have questions about, and come to a conclusion with our reasoning to understand whether it is good or bad. There's a reason why you're alive and functioning (somewhat) properly. To say its just a made up thing is utterly dishonest.
And yes, I can deny God. I have no reason to believe he exists. If you'd like to give me proof for this claim then I'll hear you out.
>>80343743
If you're more angry about the manner in which my arguments are conveyed instead of the arguments themselves that's actually a case for you being the problem in this discussion. Probably means you're the one who needs to shut up. As I said, take your own advice kiddo.
>>80343864
its not. society doesn't need to be better because we adore it and revere it; but because we NEED it to be better so it functions better and we can better pursue our existential affairs
stirner is an scholastic throwback and you should get your head out of his ass
>>80342343
>Man has become God, and thus man worships man. It's just another religion.
>i see a coffe mug on my table
>I believe in coffe mug
>Therefore it's a religion of believing in coffe mug
Religion tier retarded logic.
I don't BELIEVE in humans. I KNOW THEM.
Knowledge is different from belief.
You never seen or touched your god, never interracted with him directly, you have no evidence, that's a BELIEF.
I KNOW that huans exist, i have evidence, it's not a belief, it's a knowledge.
You literally discredit mental capacity of other religious people.
I really wish i had a chance to have an argument with an intelligent theist to ask him questions like "How do you know that it's your god that is real? What if in truth it's Allah who's real and you are going to hell?" but none of people i knew could think at that level.
>>80344004
Nobody likes the way you convey your poorly constructed drivel. If you cant coherently come to a conclusion without playing word gymnastics then don't get upset when people call you out.
Having a giggle at pantheist claiming to be atheists.
DEUS VULT
E
U
S
V
U
L
T
>>80343936
LOL in what way is morality not made up? Human life and the value of life is in every way a spook in the exact same manner as gods.
>And yes, I can deny God. I have no reason to believe he exists. If you'd like to give me proof for this claim then I'll hear you out.
You're acting like the burden of proof is on me to prove God exists when I'm clearly not making that argument.
>>80343429
>>80343864
What do you want to say?
Interests of society coincide with mine.
>>80344043
"Better" is a subjective concept. That alone discredits this response.
>>80344099
Why would I be upset when someone I hardly care about takes issue with the way I argue? My arguments are clearly understood, and so there's clearly nothing wrong with the way they're constructed.
>>80343864
You really sound like you do not know what worshipping means.
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/worship
>worship verb (RELIGION)
>to have or show a strong feeling of respect and admiration for God or a god:
>On the island the people worshipped different gods.
not this.
>to go to a religious ceremony:
>The churches were built to worship God.
not this.
>worship verb (ADMIRE)
>to love, respect, and admire someone or something very much, often without noticing the bad qualities of that person or thing:
>Her parents worship her.
not this.
He did not mean any of these and I cannot seem to find any other definition of the word worship.
>>80343429
Literally a theist too stupid to actually argue therefore tries to derail discussion into absurdity.
Waifus are laughing at you
>>80344331
>"Better" is a subjective concept. That alone discredits this response.
i used your same sense in wording here >>80343864
>betterment is universal
>better is subjective
nice weaseling out
>>80344518
Humanity is deified as a god and worshipped. That fits the first definition you listed.
>>80344179
Not in the same way religion is. Morality is a useful tool we use, same as reasoning. Is reasoning made up or is it something we utilize on a daily basis to navigate properly?
You claimed I couldn't deny god for whatever gymnastics bullshit you've been doing in this thread. I just did, and can still utilize morals since they dont exist in the same exact way. A fictional character =/= a useful conceptual tool
>>80344614
If you think I'm weaseling out you clearly can't read.
>>80344331
>clearly nothing wrong
There is, and can be proven with more than just me telling you about how your arguments are utter shit and the way you're attempting to convey that shit idea is horrid.
>>80344718
and you clearly cant think if you can't wrap around your head around society as something that enables our existential pursuits and how the term "better" can objectively be applied to it
>>80344678
>I just did, and can still utilize morals since they dont exist in the same exact way.
...yes they do. I can't see God, and I can't see morality either. Morality exists because of the inherent value we ourselves ascribe to humanity, but said value is a spook and DOES NOT EXIST! Therefore, in nature, it's the same as religious worship. Only this time instead of serving a god we're serving humanity.
>>80344672
>Humanity is deified as a god and worshipped. That fits the first definition you listed.
God not exist. Humanity exist. It is so difficult to understand?
>>80344672
see >>80344549
>Humanity is deified as a god and worshipped.
Humanity isn't an omnipotent being with a personality, a character, who has power over you and can take you to heaven.
Humany won't know if you're touching yourself at night.
Humanity isn't going to punish you for doing so.
Humanity won't know if you stole something while no one is looking.
>Human is but a slim rope stretching between the monkey and superhuman over the abyss.
We follow the ideology of doing good things because that can give a meaning to our existence.
This is not a belief into a magical being.
>>80344800
>can be proven with more than just me telling you about how your arguments are utter shit
Fun fact: you haven't even done that.
>>80344923
Humanity meaning we as humans do exist, but humanity as in a collective and cohesive unity does not.
>>80345088
>a collective and cohesive unity does not.
Humanity isn't a collective, at least not until we have United States of EARTH.
Humanity is a biological species, collection of the smartest animals walking a dirtball in space, which in a nutshell is just an extremely complicated chemical reaction aka carbon life.
>>80344800
>>80344678
>>80344974
>>80344923
"Piety has for a century received so many blows, and had to hear its superhuman essence reviled as an “inhuman” one so often, that one cannot feel tempted to draw the sword against it again. And yet it has almost always been only moral opponents that have appeared in the arena, to assail the supreme essence in favour of – another supreme essence. So Proudhon, unabashed, says: “Man is destined to live without religion, but the moral law is eternal and absolute. Who would dare today to attack morality?” Moral people skimmed off the best fat from religion, ate it themselves, and are now having a tough job to get rid of the resulting scrofula. If, therefore, we point out that religion has not by any means been hurt in its inmost part so long as people reproach it only with its superhuman essence, and that it takes its final appeal to the “spirit” alone (for God is spirit), then we have sufficiently indicated its final accord with morality, and can leave its stubborn conflict with the latter Iying behind us. It is a question of a supreme essence with both, and whether this is a superhuman or a human one can make (since it is in any case an essence over me, a super-mine one, so to speak) but little difference to me. In the end the relation to the human essence, or to “Man,” as soon as ever it has shed the snake-skin of the old religion, will yet wear a religious snake-skin again."
>>80344913
We dont utilize god to navigate through life. Do you? Morality isn't something we owe to humanity, its something we want from humanity and for ourselves. Its an agreement. God isn't anywhere near equal to morality.
>I cant see english, and i cant see god, so they're the same in nature.
Please understand how awful this argument is. Not to mention, useless.
>>80342954
wait wut
do you take issue with respecting actual REALITY?
you know kings and queens exist for a reason; they're tangible living people that proles can see, touch, smell, listen to their bullshit.
you go to a church and bend your knee to a wooden cross with a wooden jesus on it.
tell me, who is the fucking nutcase here? respecting great leaders or respecting literal fantasies?
>Please understand how awful this argument is. Not to mention, useless.
What the fuck are you talking about? Being able to read is proof you CAN see english doofus.
>>80345300
>superhuman essence
>hey guys, imma copypaste from this scholastic cryptomysticist's book that has been discredited for 100 years so it seems i have a point!
>>80345487
ITT: Faggots who think I'm defending religion. I'm arguing from a nihilist perspective retard. I'm attacking morality itself.
>>80345574
>>hey guys, imma copypaste from this scholastic cryptomysticist's book that has been discredited for 100 years so it seems i have a point!
Apparently you can't discredit it if you rely on appeal-to-authority.
>>80345575
>conflating atheism with nihilism
same fucking argument as last time, edgy faggot.
LISTEN
BASIC ATHEISM IS THE ACCEPTANCE OF WHAT IS MADE APPARENT IN AN OBJECTIVE REALITY
NIHILISM IS SOME JADED LOW ENERGY FAGGOT THAT GAVE UP ON HUMANITY AND PREFERS TO WALLOW IN SELF PITY AND DIE A SLOW MISERABLE DEATH CURSING HIS MISFORTUNE FOR BEING A ____ HUMAN BEING
Got it?
>>80344994
I have, and others in the thread. see this post>>80345300 , as it gives great insight on what NOT to do when trying to convey a message. Nobody will read that nonsense. Either put up your idea in a clear, sensible format or expect people to not take you seriously. What you're posting in these text walls has no content in it, and its a waste of time to pretend there is something in there worth responding to. This is such a soapbox post about nothing.
>>80345300
so you're trying to tie a fundamental belief based system to an idealogy which is a system of ideals and ideas through a tautology.
According to you every political view is a religion. Even every scientific theory is.
You're an absurdist.
Therefore you're irrelevant because you are trying to smear everything into nothing so you won't feel inferior to anythng.
That's not the way to Ubermesh, that's not worth time wasted.
Reconsider your life.
>>80345623
>Apparently you can't discredit it if you rely on appeal-to-authority.
i havent copypasted feuerbach and i dont plan to
the arguments are weak enough (which is why that book is considered unreadable)
>>80345798
>BASIC ATHEISM IS THE ACCEPTANCE OF WHAT IS MADE APPARENT IN AN OBJECTIVE REALITY
Reality is very altered by perception. The only things that are objective in reality is what you can see, such as the two feet you use to walk. What is not objective however, is your right to even live. Abstracts and ideas come from within. Humans attempting to drape their abstracts over reality such as their attempts to codify an essence or objective and measurable value to human life is just a man projecting his inner abstracts onto the world. You are alive, yes, but what you make of it is up to you. There is no objective and innate value to anything aside from what you give it.
>>80345968
>i havent copypasted feuerbach and i dont plan to
Good, because he sucks.
Many a year I've used my nose
To smell the onion and the rose;
Is there any proof which shows
That I've a right to that same nose?
>>80345575
Why attack something that apparently is just "made up" like a god? Just don't have anything to do with either of them. Oh wait....
>>80346323
That's a question I can ask right back at you my friend...because you're guilty of quite the same you hypocritical fuck.
>>80345575
>nihilist perspective retard.
There's a positive nihilism and negative nihilism.
Negative nihilism is like "Why deny myself that amazing Heroine if i'm gonna die anyway?"
Positive Nihilsm is like "Why can't i use any means necessary if i'm gonna die anyway?"
And i despise negative nihilism, it's a degeneracy.
>>80346148
You can't obfuscate reality bro. A human born free, out in the wild, is going to have the same exact experience as another human born free, out in the wild, who lives 100 miles away.
There's no differentiation going on here. No magical sky daddy is going pop in and show bias.
Each wild savage is going to suffer the same trials and tribulations that the other would, their reality placing them in the exact same situation, what they personally believe or come to believe being entirely irrelevant.
Objective and innate value will come to each savage in the most basic forms; nourishment, survival, breeding, and these are pure instinct at work, no God is ever present or involved.
Atheists don't exist. They can't prove their own existence. "I think therefore I am." is a bullshit mantra given on faith.. Stop even trying to act as if your delusions of reality are valid.
>>80346414
Of course you didn't get it. Let's try this again.
Don't have anything to do with morals and see how your life goes.
>>80346551
I can. I'm typing to you right now.
>>80346593
LOL this is literally no different than Christfags who say: "Don't have anything to do with God and see how your life goes."
>>80346551
That you recognize an Atheist to decry as non-existence, proves they exist.
You kinda ruined your own argument there. Even if Atheists were a purely conceptual being, you manifested them all by yourself.
>>80346148
>Abstracts and ideas come from within.
discredited medieval notion
read Penrose
Let me illustrate this issue by considering one famous example of a mathematical truth, and relate it to the question of 'objectivity'. In 1637, Pierre de Fermat made his famous assertion now known as 'Fermat's Last Theorem.'... Fermat's mathematical assertion remained unconfirmed for over 350 years, despite concerted efforts by numerous outstanding mathematicians. A proof was finally published in 1995...
Now, do we take the view that Fermat's assertion was always true, long before Fermat actually made it, or is its validity a purely cultural matter, dependent upon whatever might be the subjective standards of the community of human mathematicians? Let us try to suppose that the validity of the Fermat assertion is in fact a subjective matter. Then it would not be an absurdity for some other mathematician X to have come up with an actual and specific counter-example to the Fermat assertion, so long as X had done this before the date of 1995..
>>80346593
Right and wrong are not dependent upon God at all.
Did you think mankind just popped into existence before Christianity?
How deluded are you that you could even suggest it?
>>80346705
Arguing to an absurdist is 4d pidgeon chess.
