This is something that always pisses me off, that is when American conservatives talk about how College could not function if it were free as if nobody has done it before.
>Free College here in Slovenia
>People here are considerably better educate than the average American
>Although we don't have a Harvard or a Yale our universities all score in either top 1% or top 3% of all universities on the planet
The system CAN work.
However you can't have Hip Hop classes, African American "Culture" classes, Gender studies or Belly dancing studies, essentially anything that the students would be likely to enroll in (and pay for) while it serving no practical reason and have it come from the tax payer's money.
American universities don't work as a place of education anymore, but a glorified daycare for millenial young adults.
US's goals SHOULD be to modernize their University system and yes MAKE IT FREE, however that means transforming College from an on campus "Experience" and a daycare to what it was meant to be, a place to get a degrees and higher education for more specialized jobs.
I blame the banks.
>>80237923
(((Banks)))
>>80237843
>our universities all score in either top 1% or top 3% of all universities on the planet
The university of Zimbabwe doesn't count.
Please, you cut out all the meme courses the student loan debts will evaporate without further assistance.
A few typos from being on the phone.
Just had to share this. Got really on my nerves listening to some of you American fucks bicker over this.
>A small country no one cares about lecturing the most important country in the world
EVERY TIME
>Although we don't have a Harvard or a Yale our universities all score in either top 1% or top 3% of all universities on the planet
No they don't, slavshit. Also, there's no such thing as free education/healthcare/whatever. Sure, over here education is actually pretty cheap, but that's mostly because tax payers are paying for it indirectly.
>>80237843
This is now an american hate thread!
>>80237843
You are retarded. The reason education in America is shit in the first place is because of the government getting involved with it.
Also
> Y-You should pay for other people's education
Get fucked.
>>80237843
>half black
>stem degree
>college is free from financial aid and scholarships
College isn't free for people getting shit degrees/shit grades.
I haven't paid for school for the last 3 years going to UC San Diego as a math major.
>>80237843
(((FREE))) EDUCATION GOYS
DON'T MIND THE 15% INCREASE IN YOUR TAXES
WHY WOULD YOU EVER WANT TO THINK FOR YOURSELF AND FIND A LINE OF WORK FIRST BEFORE THROWING ALL YOUR MONEY TO THE GOVERNMENT
(((free)))
I wouldn't send my dog to a Slovenian elementary school.
>>80237843
There is one critical flaw with your argument...
It's not free, retard.
>>80238190
What I'm arguing is that College can be cheap and inexpensive both for the student and the tax payer if universities do what they are supposed to do.
Most American universities don't.
They privide useless Gender studies degrees and others just as useless
>>80237843
>free
>>80237843
Nice b8 m8, this is how you r8
http://www.webometrics.info/en/Europe/Slovenia%20
>>80238273
>half-black
You explained your free education right there, friend. Knew a guy in high school that had a 4.2 gpa or something ridiculous along with being extremely active in extra-curriculars, and he didn't even get a full ride. I remember we were getting our report cards back one day and he says to me, "If I was a black woman, I could get a full ride to any college I want for any amount of education I want."
>>80238027
>>80238135
>>80238394
>>80238557
You shouldn't bash other Universities just because they aren't in the top 1% or in a big country. I've seen exchange students from all over the word come to my University and they don't know shit. Ranks don't matter. Professors and what you do for yourself matter.
>>80237843
Bitch I pay 55k a year to go to UMich Law school.
And I still drive an audi r8.
Get on my level you barista losers.
>>80238027
Slovenija universities are MUCH better than the Western European median for universities, meaning France UK Germany Switzerland, etc.
We outrank most of those countries, it's a statistical fact
>>80238516
I agree with you man, even if they didn't let college be free they should probably fucking stop doing those other bullshit classes anyway
>>80237843
>College can be free.
Explain what you mean by "free". Free, as in the college has no expenses? The land the college occupies is rent and tax free? The administrative staff, the professors and custodians work for free? The utility companies do not charge the college a fee for using electric or water? The publishing houses do not bill the college for text books? The supply warehouses do not charge the college for paper, pencils, desks, chairs, chalkboards, erasers, printers, or computers?
You realize how absurd it is to think college is "free". There is no such thing as "free" college or free healthcare. Socialism is not free. Someone pays those bills, and the cost falls on the middle class in the form of massive taxation. And when the govt taxes your income in all kinds of ways, how are you free to spend money you worked to earn? The govt removes that freedom by confiscating your wealth and deciding how to spend your money. Remove the blinders, my friend. You fell for the oldest scam. Your college is not free, and neither are you.
>>80238516
It's not cheap anywhere. It requires and incredible amount of capital, time, and trained labour to teach. Stop deluding yourself.
You want cheap education? Remove all government involvement, make schools compete in the marketplace. There is no other solution.
>>80238676
>a leaf
>>80238676
thank ur dad u piece of shit
>>80238348
It's only a 15% increase if College remains the way it is in the US.
It can be cheap and effective and unnoticable to the tax payer if done correctly.
Is this really hard to drive this though your thick American skull?
>>80237843
I'm not familiar with the Western college system but I believe college(by this anything more than 3 years post plus 2 is a gigantic waste of time)
The vast majority of the Indians that Western companies seem to be picking up here these days are from places where the course is basically 3 years long and called a diploma.
For all this talk of racial superiority, humans in general will soon be obsolete except fro the most technically sophisticated jobs. I don't expect Indians to do as well as they have been doing in the recent past but college isn't the answer either.
Fuck college. Most of these places are designed for gasbags.
>>80238803
Bullshit.
I've seen case studies on private universities and clinics.
Prices go up, quality goes down.
Yes a few private colleges, clinics and the like are top rate, but on average they do worse than stare owned.
I'm Not arguing for socialism here, I'm arguing for a healthy Mix of Capitalism and socialism.
Both are toxic in their own way.
>>80237843
>The system CAN work.
No it can't.
This is because college is not free at all. It just seems that way because you lobby lawmakers to create taxes to fund your desires. Naturally, this ends up with you reaching into my wallet and taking my money at gunpoint so that you can receive a state-subsidized "education" in GENDER STUDIES.
I don't even get a return on my "investment" because those who exit these indoctrination centers are UNEMPLOYABLE not only due to the fact that they are mentally still children, but because their degrees are WORTHLESS.
You are fundamentally opposed to liberty because you want to hand even more power to the state to seize the property of dissenters at gunpoint to support your political agenda.
It isn't free. It never was. All you have done is send an armed goonie-squad to quell liberty and dissent by forcing people to fund the indoctrination of their own children as a means of destroying the very society they also happen to fucking live in.
Here in brazil, free state funded colleges are regarded widely better than the private fundations.
That is because it is one of the few thing that the government takes care and actually "works" (there are still blatant flaws, but the overall experience works). But there arent enough places for everyone, so in the end, only the smartest get through.
Actually, it think it works in despite of the government cause only the smart get through.
But them again it is funded by taxes, so it is not FREE
>>80237843
It's just the system that's fucked, I'll won't go into detail but this didn't used to be.
The government throws more and more money at it but the tuitions keep costing more and more so the problem isn't that the government isn't paying.
>make college free
>everyone gets a degree
>eventually, the value of a degree goes down to ~0
>basically a glorified HS diploma
>need a degree to work at McDonald's
>everyone is doing what they would have done anyway
>but government is in 5x more debt
>>80237843
Are you kidding me? Not educating your people sounds like a perfect plan :^)
>>80237843
Why do you want more American neolib leftists?
>>80239714
>Not educating
You got that right, Sweden. "Educate" is not synonymous with "indoctrinate."
>>80237843
"""""free"""""
oh yeah im fucking happy to pay over 40% taxes for women studies.
1) 6-10 years in university
2) go and abuse welfare or take another shitty studies
3) most of "educated" (humanists), are marxists
Fuck that. If i could chose which university gets my tax money, then yes maybe but not like this...
>>80238273
oh shit son i go to UCSD too
>>80239907
>>80238273
currently in portugal clearly, were you at the Milo event?
>>80238765
Explain to me how Healthy care can be cheap and effective in most European countries instead of having to shell out a week's pay to visit a doctor like in the US.
Yes Brother College nor Healthy Care or anything Else can be free, BUT it sure as fuck doesn't have to cost as much as in the US.
All in takes is it being more efficiently run and the Money being allocated better.
Here is your mentality
>I am American, I have a very limited American centric worldview and fail to admit it, I cannot comprehend that any system other than my own could work as well OR better
>>80239872
>Sweden
>Finnish flag
American education everybody!
>>80237843
While people in the USA are learning about gender studies and african studies all the chinese are learning about business, computer science and engineering.
The writing is on the wall, you can already see what will happen to the US.
>>80237843
Our fucking high schools are free and look how seriously our kids take that particular segment of their education.
You can't spend your way out of a bad work ethic.
>>80238273
also whats your GPA?
>>80239672
Except this hasn't happened in any other country where college is free.
>>80239672
Are you retarded or what.
This is what I'm saying Education can be free as long as the courses are only the practical ones and the standard of Education is set VERY HIGH.
I'm saying that the American College which definitely has low standards cannot exist while being free.
>>80239897
Most students in Finland are in business, science or technology which are inherently useful to the society so quit whining. And by science I mean real things like med, physics, math etc.
>>80238705
http://www.webometrics.info/en/Europe
Doesnt look so impressive m8
>>80240044
I think he just tried to insult me.
>>80239445
>. Naturally, this ends up with you reaching into my wallet and taking my money at gunpoint so that you can receive a state-subsidized "education" in GENDER STUDIES.
>I don't even get a return on my "investment" because those who exit these indoctrination centers are UNEMPLOYABLE not only due to the fact that they are mentally still children, but because their degrees are WORTHLESS.
Are you really this simple minded that you can't comprehend a College system that doesn't have gender studies?
IF done correctly tax paid college IS a Good investment for the tax payer.
What I'm saying is that most courses that dont contribute to the tax payer in the long run or arent of a HIGH cultural relevance should be eliminated
>>Slovenia
>>country so small it has like 5 uni students per year
>>uni can be free everywhere
Please Boštjan.
College in the US is mostly just a daycare where normies get drunk, party and have sex with one another. They don't learn anything and once they graduate they're corralled into their cubicles to sit for the next 35 years of their lives.
>>80240449
>>80238557
>Slovenia's education ranks as the 12th best in the world and 4th best in the European Union, being significantly higher than the OECD average, according to the Programme for International Student Assessment.
>>80240654
Not if you actually put in effort, work hard, write theses or do research, etc.
>>80240248
Which isn't gonna happen if it's run by the government.
There's a reason why private universities are so expensive, because they offer such a higher level of education than gov't run schools do
do americans commonly believe that any average citizen who isnt a retard in countries like finland and sweden can just decide they want to go to med school and start studying there?
the competition to get accepted into studying law or med is harsh as fuck. every year thousands of people get rejected who'd deserve to attend the unis and get the degrees. you need to study things like biology and chemistry for years, 8 hours a day to get into med school.
i got accepted into law uni this summer and made huge sacrifices like no social life for 4 months because i had to cram through 500 pages of articles that the exam was about and also paid 1000 euros for prepping courses, there even exists 7000eur courses that give your money back if you dont get accepted so its not that fair here
>>80237843
Slovenian higher education has still its problems, namely that every idiot can attend university and basically stay here forever.I see a lot of people my generation finishing their degree now and I am 30 years old. On the plus side, the STEM fields are pretty good. I got my degree in physics and I'm doing my phd in Germany. The quality of the education I got in Slovenia is pretty comparable to the German one.
Another problem is that we have to many private diploma mills that get state subsidies. A friend of mine attended the private Law university in Nova Gorica and now she works as a beautician because her degree is useless.
>>80240127
To Play the devils advocate I think it would happen in the US if they made College free without significant reform.
>College can be free
>The way American College Works currently, it cant be free
>>80240035
False comparison. You cannot compare Slovenia economics to the United States economics. There are four cities in the U.S. with a population higher than Slovenia. There are 47 states in the U.S. with a GDP higher than Slovenia. The U.S. GDP is higher than all European countries COMBINED. The average annual salary in Slovenia is $17,000. The average annual salary in the U.S. is $52,000. What works in Europe does not necessarily work in an economy as vast and complex as the United States economy. Things cost more in the U.S. because people earn more and because there is a greater potential for earning in the U.S. than in Slovenia.
And allowing the economy to become centrally managed by a handful of bureaucrats will do nothing but make costs and taxes rise exponentially. Obama socialized healthcare. Healthcare costs have skyrocketed in the last three years.
>>80241185
It isn't perfect and I dread that it might get worse, But it Works, and if reformed cutting out even more bullshit degrees it could work even better.
>>80240866
That might be all nice and comfy for ya but ur country simply doesnt outrank western university. But its nice to see ya all doing good there
>>80241289
Just because it's larger doesnt change this, it only means such a system is harder to operate.
It can be done and done well. Don't be defeatists about it.
The reason why these things dont work in the US isn't because you are huge, But because of the political undermining of Republicans and Democrats.
Reform your democracy and after that tackle health Care and free college
>>80237843
>considerably better educate
Lol
>>80241719
This would only be true if there were only 3 western European countries in the European Union.
Otherwise your statement cant hold true.
>>80240383
Honestly, most of applied science students quits after ½-2 years from the start, so i have every right to whine. Most of applied sciences are rubbish anyway, you could close most of those schools. And you're prolly just other humanist rat so fuck you.
>>80237843
>Yes, College can be free
it's never free.
the only decision to be made is whether you want people to pay for their own education or taxpayers being forced to pay for everybody else's education.
>>80241886
What is a typo
Dont give Me that shit when like 40% of your High schoolers cant spell the word necessary
>>80237843
Free college for STEM majors and only those with 3.0 GPAs and up. Only available to US Born Citizens.
Eliminate the waste of Socialism in colleges especially the sociology and humanity programs including such gems as minority studies and African gay culture and the sinking college ship will be righted.
If that doesn't work, remove the for-profit model of operation of these institutions and disable their ability to profit off their students through athletic programs including the elimination of athletic scholarships.
>>80242103
>Nitpicking when you know exactly what I meant.
TLDR: I'm saying a good government paid College programme can be a positive net investment for the tax payer
>>80237843
"Educate(d)"
Espouses Socialism
/Thread
>>80241476
The problem is that you can't have a large amount of mud population and free stuff at the same time.
Free university wouldn't work in USA
>>80237843
>list of, I don't know, car speeds
>1st place car goes 160
>2nd place goes 90
>2nd place is JUST AS GOOD AS FIRST I SWARE ON ME MUM
This is what's wrong with people like you.
>>80237843
>>80238022
(((conservatives)))
Everyone here in the US is duped into thinking that their lib vs con system means anything.
>>80237843
If burgers weren't dumb they could do what we do. Gubment gives their citizens low to no interest loans for university and let them pay it back when they can afford it. We call it HEX debt. It works great.
>>80237843
Put it all online. Reduce the costs drastically. You don't need physical structures for many things. Establish labs for the hands on aspects.
>>80237843
>free
You know, I'm beginning to think that Eurocucks don't use this word properly because they have never experienced freedom to begin with.
I'm starting to believe that you have to have experienced freedom to k ow hoe to properly use the term and that's sad
>>80237843
So once everyone can go to Uni for free
Who's going to clean your toilets?
Who's going to sweep the streets?
Who's going to serve your McDiabeetus?
Do you realize that University really isn't for everyone? It's not just about a price tag.
>>80242353
you're operating on a bunch of assumptions that simply do not match reality.
in particular, your argument relies on assuming that
>universities only do useful research
>universities only teach useful courses
>students only enroll in useful classes
>students only get useful degrees
but none of that is even close to reality. universities regularly waste gorillions of dollars on bullshit like gender studies departments. universities offer a ton of utterly useless garbage courses. students fuck around in braindead retardation classes and waste their time and effort on useless degrees all the time.
not to mention the fact that 'free' college just means that you get a bunch of foreign leeches who come to your country, take the 'free' education that you offer, and then fuck off after.
tl;dr tons of money wasted, and why? because you feel entitled to forcing other people to use their money to give you a headstart in life.
>>80239872
Anime source, please.
>>80242942
>Gubment gives their citizens low to no interest loans for university and let them pay it back when they can afford it.
that's pretty much what america is already doing. results in tons of dumb millennials whining about MUH EVIL STUDENT DEBT
>>80237843
>tfw studying in Ljubljana coming year
feelsgoodmayne.jpeg
>>80237843
I don't mind free education as long as nigger and women studies SJW worthless courses are banned.
>>80243200
Those jobs are inevitably going to be automated, though.
>>80237843
America has a liberal arts tradition- college is not a means to an end or employment, it is a place to become a more broadly educated citizen. Most of America's failings in education are not at the college level, but at the primary and secondary educational level.
As to college being "free," that would necessitate larger class sizes, lower teacher salaries, serious cuts in housing, extracurricular activities, and in educational quality. Many of my classes had 30 students (I went to a private school) or less, allowing me full access to my professors to master the skills at hand, get involved in research, get letters of recommendation, etc. Can't do that under some BS socialist system, where a professor has 1,000+ students vying for their attention. I mastered the material and got into medical school- college was awesome and worth every penny.
Canadian universities are a way better value
>>80237843
Slovenia, you're really trying hard to be the new #1 shit poster on this board.
>>80243255
Most of these problems can be eliminated by High enrollment tests.
>>80241780
Then shut the fuck up and stop sliding CFGs with this dumb shit
Reeeeeeeaaaally makes you think
>>80237843
Assuming everyone had a degree; who does blue color work? America isn't Europe. America's industry revolves mostly around distribution/trucking. Trucking requires no education other than a CLD A. Why give everyone a degree? Create even more obsolete desk job positions? I guess I don't quite understand the ideals involved. Realistically not needed. Far too easily accesible as it is.
>>80243200
Why do people keep repeating this dumb argument? Not everyone can enroll into state-funded universities. There's a limit to how many are accepted.
>>80243802
at this point you're just being dishonest
>entire departments dedicated to doing nothing but leftist ideology shilling
>lol enrollment tests will fix it :^)
>>80237843
University student here, if you are an American student and you are trapped under $60,000 in debt you are retarded. Going to a school you can't afford is like buying a mansion you can't afford. You go into debt. What did you think would happen? Community colleges and vocational schools can be paid for on minimum wage. I have no debt because I earned scholarships and went to a school that was appropriate for my financial level.
>>80238765
>Explain what you mean by "free".
My god. Only /pol/ autists get so triggered over this word. Everyone (but literally everyone) that says free college, or free healthcare, means tax payer funded.
Ethnic Slovene here, my cousin is a lazy prick and still doesn't have a degree about 12 years after starting. Furthermore there's a doctor who's spent 10 or so years on their degree, I wouldn't trust a doctor who needed to keep repeating. System sounds very open to abuse
>>80237843
>College should be free
And also houses, food, open transport, cars...
Delusional Communist
Technical certifications and job skills should be free. STEM should be scholarship only, and finance, and racial/gender courses should be double tuition.
>>80244366
Because it's not free. People pay for it, you can't give away things for free.
How about, instead of handing out "higher education" to everyone at colossal expense, we commit to improving K-12 education instead? Shouldn't 13 YEARS of schooling be enough to qualify someone for normal work?
I agree absolutely that free public education should be enough to give someone a fighting chance at a decent working life... but I don't think extending the minimum sentence to 17 years is the way to get there.
And even then, it's not like making the entire population more educated is going to magically create more good jobs. A shortage of decent-paying work is the reason the education bubble exists in the first place.
>>80239470
>But them again it is funded by taxes, so it is not FREE
Only /pol/ autists get triggered by this, ffs.
>>80239672
>memes
>>everyone gets a degree
So retards can get deggres in America? That explains alot
>>80239872
Jesus man, just put the mouse on top of the flag.
>inb4 i was only pretending!!!!!
>>80239897
>oh yeah im fucking happy to pay over 40% taxes for women studies.
Finland has women studies?
>3) most of "educated" (humanists), are marxists
You mean like 10 %?
> my tax money
You mean your parents tax money, you underage
>>80237843
>glorified daycare for millenial young adults
damn...
>>80244366
And that's why they should be reminded that they're bullshitting and it's not actually free.
>>80237843
I got my college education from undergrad all the way to my PhD I start next year all paid for because I'm smart.
Suck a dick poor fags.
>>80244428
If you repeat you have to pay for the courses you take again there are holes but it's not nearly as abusable as you think it is
>>80244931
>he fell for the 'american education is shit' meme
Refer to this>>80243919
america please come to Slovenia and bomb these comunists
>>80241289
>And allowing the economy to become centrally managed by a handful of bureaucrats
>nationalizzed higher education
>>>/x/
>>80245232
this is why I don't trust what my family members say
>>80237843
You dont understand capitalism.
In america everything is a racket, a way to exploit some one in need.
>>80238705
Take UK off that list
>>80245604
Proof?
Fucking commie
>>80244916
I agree, it doesnt necessarily matter what you call it as long as capable individuals from poor origins are capable of getting a good paying job without Massive debt.
I'm not talktalking about showling millions of dindus into college who dont have a chance of being a productive member of society anyway.
What I'm saying is that College should be freely available to anyone who proces himself to be valuable to society
Yes grants and such exist and schollarships exist But they dont Cover enough people
>>80238705
Refer to this:
>>80243919
>>80243255
>in particular, your argument relies on assuming that
>>universities only do useful research
>>universities only teach useful courses
>>students only enroll in useful classes
>>students only get useful degrees
Wrong.
> universities regularly waste gorillions of dollars on bullshit like gender studies departments.
In Europe?
>students fuck around in braindead retardation classes and waste their time and effort on useless degrees all the time.
>dumb people are dumb
more news at 8 pm
>not to mention the fact that 'free' college just means that you get a bunch of foreign leeches who come to your country
Admissions are dependent on national exams. Most of the foreigners are Erasmus and deals made (like Macau, for example).
>>80245713
You are Not out of EU, yet.
+ The source I cited was pre Brexit, I'm assuming there werent any revolutionary changes to your Education system in the last few w in your country
>>80245604
This is why so many people around the world are running to America to be taken advantage of and exploited. Silly people!
>>80245742
>grants and such exist and schollarships exist But they dont Cover enough people
They'd cover a lot more if there weren't so many useless liberal arts shitheads clogging the system to get nearly-remedial education.
But then, if there weren't so many people out to get worthless degrees, the debt wouldn't be much of an issue anyway. Return on investment is part of the point, isn't it?
>>80245855
How many shit colleges do you have?
Enough to tank your average way below ours.
If we were gonna Play semantics. University of Ljubljana is top 300.
Your population is 150 times larger.
Do you have a 150 colleges in the top 300?
>However you can't have Hip Hop classes, African American "Culture" classes, Gender studies or Belly dancing studies, essentially anything that the students would be likely to enroll in (and pay for) while it serving no practical reason and have it come from the tax payer's money.
These are what most of the people that want free collee want to study.
>>80243562
>that would necessitate larger class sizes
No, on the contrary. Admissions would decrese
> lower teacher salaries
Oh, the pain, the misery!!! How can this be?
>serious cuts in housing
Don't know how it is in the USA
>educational quality
meme
> Many of my classes had 30 students
mine too. I've had classes with 20 or less students
>allowing me full access to my professors to master the skills at hand
me too
> Can't do that under some BS socialist system
I did
>where a professor has 1,000+ students vying for their attention
meme. That is like what my entire uni takes on per year (2 or 3rd largest in my country)
>>80243771
>different opinions
>shitposting
"this is tumblr now" on pic related
>>80246222
As I said. Reform it
Cut the fat.
>tfw I can't get a student loan
>tfw guberment has to pay my upkeep completely while I study in a free university
>all because I fucked up my credit with a payday loan
>tfw I paid it off with the monies I get from government
>tfw my fuck up will be cleared from my credit history by the time I graduate
>tfw I will graduate with no student debt
>tfw I would have been way more fucked if I hadn't borrowed 100€ from loan sharks to buy booze
All thanks to the power of alcohol. Sometimes being a drunkard pays off.
>>80237843
wtf i love sargon of akkad now
>>80238568
A 4.2 isn't even high, lel.
>>80244648
>>80245109
>Because it's not free.
And literally everyone knows and understand this. Only /pol/ autists get so triggered by this
>>80246362
>you have the best, but not ALL the best!!!11!one!
>we have one (not that good) university, so our whole system is better!!
It shows
>>80246374
Yes, But it doesnt mean it cant be free.
I still hate the factual inacurracy.
Stop offering these things at College then. Create a new programme called "Useless courses that you have to pay for".
Without the prestige of it being College, nobody will attend
>>80237843
When will you faggots learn that NOTHING, I repeat NOTHING, is ever FREE?
>>80246881
Fucking America.
Unbelievably stupid.
>>80246824
But you need to say it, not hide behind weasel words. Shouldn't be so hard to tell everyone "I want the taxpayers to pay for my education." If you keep saying free I'll keep reminding you that we paid for it.
>>80246824
>it's not free
>but everyone calls it that, haha triggered!!
Literally you
>>80245235
Those ranks mean what? And i compared my country top uni budget vs a american similar university in those ranks. My country uni was one positions above with a budget 1/10 or 1/20 of the american one. I think it was Missouri vs Universidade de Lisboa
Also those rankings are based on the amount of published papers. a article on gender studies has the same weight on one on Computer Sciences
>>80247034
Ok, but that's not an argument against my post
>>80246824
It's because they barely learned about taxes and what they're used for, so they assume that everyone is as surprised by the concept as they are.
>>80237843
Why can't state schools be free and real schools cost money?
>>80237843
>College
>Free
I went to a "free" college, the University of Buenos Aires. Ranked in the top 50 of the world too.
Teachers would arrive late, exam dates switched with little notice, the whole place is infested with Chileans, Bolivians, Peruvians and other immigrants (even some Americans) that come to abuse the system because it's FREE! And of course then there's the 30-something year olds still stuck in the first course because they go to university to do youth politics or just for thr student benefits rather than actually bother with advancing or showing up in class. They cost money to the State too.
"Free" university is a meme. I swtiched to a private university where I can actually learn rather than chase some meme degree like a little lemming trapped in a labyrinth of bureaucracy.
With FREE college the entire population is basically paying to subsidize illegals and NEETs that become an obstruction to the few students that actually want to learn.
>>80237843
It's not free. You pay for that by paying your taxes. Nothing could be free. Don't teachers get their salaries? Don't the building recuire electricity, renovation, etc.?
College should be free IF you actually get good grades.
>>80246222
>a problem?
>Well, let's blame it on the libruls!!!
Everytime
I think LeftyPol (btw threadly reminder that this cockmuncher portuguese tripfag was named leftypol before) might have attended Lisbon University for a African Studies degree. This is why he's so keen on taxpayer funded college, he wants to have another crack at having a decent degree.
>>80238131
Then don't listen to us.
yo OP, are you studying gender studies? because you seem like the type of a person that does that... chill
>se en s FDVja
yes, free uni is a great thing, yes american school and health care systems suck, but why dfuck do you need to rage about that here, no one cares... just stop
>>80240631
key word: IF
it won't be done properly
american' system is fine.
anyone who takes out 60k for college is a fucking retard unless that's bachelor's and master's. bachelor's you shouldn't even be taking out 30k, that's what your job is for.
>four classes (that's full time)
>$4.4k total
>part time job at $9 or $10/hr, work 30hr weeks
>that's around $1100 a mo after taxes
>rent an apartment with a rooommate
>rent is $840, split it in half to $420 a piece
>so that's around $680 after rent
>$500 a mo for university
>$180 left for leisure
>take out a 2k loan so you can rest assured that your shit is paid for
This isn't rocket science. you can do it. just don't be a fucking retard about it.
>>80247088
It's just a way to spell it faster. Like you say portugal, instead of Republic of Portugal, or Porto, instead of Futebol Clube do Porto. Only autistic really get triggered by this
>>80247098
Free to the student on admission.
>>80247210
Now i know why people don't like tripfagggots.
>>80247356
another autist triggered by the word free
It's because Americans don't travel, and they don't read, and they don't research.
They genuinely don't realise that countries like Slovenia, like Australia, like plenty of European countries, have functional "free" university systems that have worked for decades. They just don't know about it. They don't realise that we exist.
It's a curious kind of "America doesn't need your help" arrogance, as well as a flat out inability to compromise sensibly by _both sides_ of domestic American politics, that really fucks their shit up.
When Australia federated our Constitution was copied wholesale from the US and the UK, and it works really well because we took good ideas and left bad ones.
>>80247388
literally every nationalized higher education system.
>>80247589
>African Studies degree
Does it exist there?
>>80247963
that's why your min wage is fucked and your dollar is tanking, right, Aussie? :^)
no but seriously, the Emunigger is right. America is fucked thanks to its arrogance. we could do better, but why do better when the money is already flowing?
>>80247356
>>80247240
See>>80242353
Its not a hard concept to grasp
>>80247257
Being free doesnt mean you shouldnt stamp out abuse
Off the top of my Head
>1. If you fail a class, you pay for it if you want to attend again.
>2. Only provide non-meme classes
>3. Difficult enrollment tests
>4. Limit foreigners from attend excpet if they do superbly on 3. + Or maybe have a system where you get a debt for studying But said debt is paid by the government periodically over a few years if the student works in said country after receiving Education. Would be a good way to prevent brain drain.
/Pol/ mentality
>Change is hard and a lot of work
>>80247912
>It's just a way to spell it faster.
It's still not free.
>>80248090
>Does it exist there?
Of course. How else would you know about such wonderful things like African Religions and how WE WUZ KANGS?
http://www.letras.ulisboa.pt/pt/cursos/licenciaturas-1-ciclo/estudos-africanos
>>80248220
>minwage is fucked
What?
>dollar is tanking
It actually needs to go lower. It's over-valued. We're not America and our money is (and should be) and needs to be worth less than US dollars for our businesses to be competitive internationally.
The Australian dollar is returning to the mean, not tanking. The few years of parity that we had were fun (especially for travelling) but they couldn't last.
>>80247912
Still no argument against my post, nice slander though
College should be free if you are studying STEM and are in the top 1% of the nation. In America, Obongo has pushed the notion that everyone needs to go to college while at the same time handing out loans like candy to kids, and so universities have become extremely overcrowded and prices have inflated dramatically. The way to fix it is to make it so only the top 5% can go to university, and make it free for the top 1%. None of this bullshit where people spend 4 years learning 13th century African cave paintings as an excuse to party.
>>80247209
U of Lisbon ranks about 500 internationally.
U of Missouri is about 375.
Hmmmmm......
>>80246746
now your just blowing shit out your ass
>>80247751
If I had the opportunity I'd reform our system too, But I'd keep it free like it is.
However while we do have meme classes here see filofaks you have to understand that the situation in the US is a 100x times worse
>>80247912
>Free to the student on admission
But not my tax forms
>>80248588
>The way to fix it is to make it so only the top 5%
Lol those numberd are WAY too low.
A third of the population should go to college and study Non meme shit.
The rest shouldn't Go at all.
>>80237843
Honestly, I'm glad it works in Slovenia, but what are the demographics of your country compared to ours? How does it work in primary school? Do you have to teach millions of people that don't speak the same language some of whom are illiterate in their native language? Their are plenty of people in America that wouldn't mind paying higher taxes if we ever saw some ROI, but that is never the case. My property taxes just went up a shit load to pay for the all of the illegals to go to school, and the only good school near me is about an hour away so I am not benefiting at all. So my logic is that if we can't get free k-12 right, why even bother trying to get free college?
>>80237923
don't blame the banks, blame the gov't that guarantees the banks their money back if loans are completely defaulted
without that money back guarantee, banks would loan out less money, less people would be able to afford current prices and the price of colleges would fall drastically.
>>80248403
Isso é novidade para mim
>32 openings
Well, could be worse
>>80248588
>In America, Obongo has pushed the notion that everyone needs to go to college while at the same time handing out loans like candy to kids,
Tell me oh genious one, who as benifited from this?
>The way to fix it is to make it so only the top 5% can go to university
>only 5% of population should have college education
Hello africa
>>80237843
As somebody who went to one of the top 10 American universities for free, I do not believe all education should be free. It should be free if you qualify because of your financial circumstances and scholastic promise.
We don't need upper middle class families sending their kids to college and forcing them into debt. That's the problem, tbqh. These people don't deserve the education they're helping to devalue.
>>80249070
The banks of course.
b-b-but muh free college
>>80243919
Pretty much this.
Also, government funding means that the government has a lot of power to influence the universities. Don't like that Marxist propaganda? Too bad goy, your funding just got cut by 60%.
Letting the universities be private allows for more freedom, and more importantly for more profit. When it's your money that's at stake, and not some magic funds coming from the government, institutions are managed way better.
And finally, all that extra money from students allows the universities to build top notch laboratories. American universities are pretty much Nobel factories.
>>80238253
This
>>80243200
You do realize there are entry tests and a limited number of people can get in, right?
>>80249601
Not in clapistan. People feel they have a god given right to go to college.
>>80248763
source?
I saw a ranking in wich Uni de Lisboa was +-200
Also it's Nova de Lisboa.
And missouri is 500+
>>80249601
Sometimes I wondering what kinds retarded imbeciles browse 4chan that they can't grasp simple concepts like this
>>80249989
https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankings/2016/world-ranking#!/page/0/length/-1/sort_by/rank_label/sort_order/asc
I'd like to see your source
>>80238135
Thinking you have nothing to learn from others is pretty stupid, desu.
>>80248959
>Muh feelz
Its not an argument
>>80248996
muh demographics
100% slav and gipsy. GDP per capita easily half of the American one. Need more?
>>80249222
>The way to fix it is to make it so only the top 5% can go to university
Literally all of the nationalized higher education systems
>>80250123
Sometimes I wondering what kinds retarded imbeciles browse 4chan that they can't grasp simple concepts like this:
>>80243919
>>80249968
Doesnt mean Tax payer ROI positive College is impossible.
It only means you've been brainwashed by the liberals who claim everyone is equally capable
>>80249323
The banks and unis. So who do you think was behind the student loans?
What are some "developed" without free colleges? I have Japan and USA so far.
>>80237843
You already answered the question as to why college in the US should not be free
>American universities don't work as a place of education anymore, but a glorified daycare for millennial young adults.
People want to continue to do their bullshit but not pay for college. That is what they are asking for. Additionally, it is very easy to go to a public university or community college in the US for free. There is also the GI bill. Upper and Middle Class hipsters just want to be able to go to places like Stanford, Harvard, and Princeton on the taxpayer dime, and that is fucking retarded.
>>80250229
>Muh feelz is not an argument
Neither is 'oh hez a tropfigg' which is your logic, and you still haven't provided an argument to this post:
>>80243919
>>80250132
http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2015#sorting=rank+region=+country=191+faculty=+stars=false+search=
>>80250164
You learn what not to do from the smaller, shittier nations like spain.
>>80238666
>Professors matter
Whew son....
>>80237843
Dude no your shitty population is so small. What are your tax rates? High taxes go against American values. You are literally an idiot.
>a fucking Slav theeling Americans how to live.
go back to the gas chambers where you belong
A lot of these University rankings are just advertisment
Sure, about 15% are really smart and get full scholarship (those are the ones who make the University noteworthy) the rest are just rich kids with connections and dumb Americans who will gladly take a 100 k loan
>>80250542
2015 vs 2016
we lad
>>80250424
The UK, South Korea, all rich Arab countries.
>>80247912
as if saying tax payed college is that much longer than free college. also there is no misunderstanding in saying portugal instaed of republic of portugal, but there is one when saying free college insated of tay payed college.
It's free, but you need to go through exams to get in and I think it would create another race issue in USA
>>80250512
Well, then enjoy your world class education, even thou your graduates can't find job and are replaced by poo in loos and chinks. Meanwhile my country graduates are hunted on graduation day to go work to england and germany.
Americans are constantly saying that USA american colleges are shit.
Also those ranks are kind of useless
Also those rankings are based on the amount of published papers. a article on gender studies has the same weight on one on Computer Sciences
>>80246552
Our system would be more likely to look like England or Germany than yours if we went all-out socialist with it. Those that I know in these countries that attend highly regarded universities, and they note that their classes frequently had up to 200 students per class. To do things properly, that's what a good education system would need to do to retain good enough talent (higher student:faculty ratio to maintain salaries), and the very reason that you have low student:faculty ratios yet not a single university in any top 100 ranking in the world in Poortugal.
As to salaries- we expect to be paid well in America. Fuck your Europoor salaries.
>>80251173
>ranking argument gets disproved
>they're not important!!1!
>spews the same argument i just disproved
>>80248090
In the USA, college is generally free if you get good grades as well.
>>80237843
and if college degrees are free, even the ones that are still worth something instantly become worthless
might as well just print them out like zimbabwe does with hundred trillion dollar bills
>>80250622
You do realize quite a few White American are Slavic right?
>>80250964
>but there is one when saying free college insated of tay payed college.
Are you serious? Literally everyone knows that university is tax payer funded that i know off. Well, maybe a few retards don't.
>>80249989
And yet the majority of the top universities int he world are in the US... Makes you think that maybe that money goes to, you know, build something...
>>80251385
>What are enrollment test quotas?
Yeah the USA is crazy. In the UK its not technically free, but it almost is. Any loan taken after 2006 expires after 25 years. And you don't pay anything unless you're earning more than £16,000. If you're earning more than £16,000 it takes a set persentage of your wage according to earnings. So if you have a high paying job you can easily pay it back and if you're poor you don't need to worry about it.
>>80237843
yes free and then earn millions. because that´s how the world spins.
natural selection.
You dont get crushed by mammoth but by dempts except your smart and got a plan.
>>80251573
To those of us that make decent cash, hearing the youth clamor for "free college" triggers us because we're paying 40%+ in taxes and not getting shit for it since we already paid our way through college. Fuck the youth that want everything handed to them.
>>80251629
Racist.
>>80250164
That's american education for you.
>>80251182
I also have classes with 200 students. But whatever
>As to salaries- we expect to be paid well in America. Fuck your Europoor salaries.
>I want to pay dozens of thousands of dollars so that professors get good salaries
>>80251629
So the same amount of people get into college, but it's just shitty and has a 40% tax rate?
>>80237843
You know a degree doesn't equal guarantee success and most college students go to college just to fuck around and have sex. The serious students got to their college through a scholar because of their strong work ethic or talent.
Free college is a waste
>>80251798
Being welsh is even better, my fees were something like £3k a year thanks to welsh subsidies
>>80237843
>The system CAN work.
Not in the US. They're too greedy and their debt is on the threshold if 20 trillion dollars.
>>80237843
Public universities don't cost more than 10-12k to attend. You don't need to live in a dorm. If you or your parents can't afford to pay 5k+ a year you don't belong in college. That simple.
The tuition keeps most of the garbage humans out of the classrooms. Tahqweesha and tyrone dont need a seat in a classroom. We dont need our universities in the shape our public high schools are.
>>80251370
source? How many students have free college?
>>80251592
You mean the money goes to expensive american footbal programs?
>>80251861
> us because we're paying 40%+ in taxes
>and still pay for college and healthcare
God, you guys are pathethic
>>80237843
>free
>>80252698
Actual smart or talented students get scholarships to go to schools, and have a reduced or free tuition that the university pays for.
Our healthcare and education is objectively better, and over time, we actually may less because we don't have ludicrous tax rates.
so you also pay 40% taxes on your income in the US? Thought this was just a euromeme
>>80252378
>poor people don't deserve education
americans...
>>80252389
>what is admissions tests
Hey, here is a breakthrough idea, what if we decided the admissions on academic scores and academic potential instead of parents wallet?
>>80253004
source
>>80253406
I've justified my position as much as you have
>>80253366
That would be raycis.
Easily achievable, but unlikely to happen due to so much of the budget going to defense.
If that money was spent on education, you'd have a surplus of it that could be spent on medicine and science. Shame, but hey, at least this way we can hope for a WW3, right?
>>80253366
College is a privilege, not a right.
>>80253004
>Just be spoiled like me!
>Why didn't your parents force you to study as much as mine?
>I can't see why everybody can't just do what I did.
>I'm passively bragging about my luck with a tripcode on an anonymous internet forum
It's called being a responsible adult.
Graduated with $40,000 in debt and I paid it all off in less than 3 years while living on my own.
>>80254026
Nice post, but it doesn't include any arguments.
>tfw no tution fees
>tfw get paid 1000USD by the government to study every month
get on my level niggas
>>80253807
Enjoy your below- medioquer Slovenian college, I will get an ivy leauge equivalent from the US Army for free.
>>80254295
>pay70% taxes on your income once you graduate
>>80254127
How much do you earn though? Reality is most jobs will pay much less than yours and a majority of people doing degrees (arts/humanities) wont be much use for anything.
>>80254515
And? Why should taxpayers be responsible for the bad decisions of others?
>>80237843
Here's an idea: improve all the K-12 public schooling that happens prior to college so that college is strictly optional but not required to find a job
>>80241950
Your Universties suck mate.
I scrolled the fuck down and couldn't find one.
>>80254355
And that is why american companies are importing millions of poo in loos and chinks to do qualificated jobs
>>80254371
The highest amount of tax anybody can pay here is 55%, but you'll have to have Bill Gates levels of income before you'll get taxed that.
I'll probably end up paying 41-42%
>>80252003
I believe professors deserve a decent wage and I'm willing to pay for that. Unlike you, who think they aren't worth paying.
>>80244931
Finland has women studies?
http://www.abo.fi/fakultet/en/kvinnovetenskap
>You mean like 10 %?
More like 90%
>You mean your parents tax money, you underage
Well Portugal, even if you were closer to 30 you prolly have not seen your first payroll :^) (pay debtz btw)
>>80241780
We're going to have shit healthcare until our top three causes of death are
1. Heart disease (eating habit)
2. Lung disease (smoking habit)
3. Diabetes (eating habit, again)
I'm not going to willingly pay for suicides by the burger instead of the gun, and no cost accounting fuckery is going to solve any of these issues.
>>80254786
Yes, even the universities in pooinloo land are better than yours. Really makes you think.
>>80252698
Yeah, we're paying 40%+ in taxes and we'd have to pay EVEN MORE if we wanted healthcare and college covered. My employer covers my health care, so that's no big, and, while college cost me more than a Europoor, my wages are literally 5x higher than a physician in Portugal, so I'll take my expensive system with high wages versus your cheap system with shit wages. Fuck your egalitarian bullshit.
>College is free
>Everyone gets a degree
>Businesses still want experience
>No one gets hired
>>80254355
>medioquer
American Education.
>>80237843
Bump. This is true and americans are fucking retarded.
>>80254859
What do you think would be a good wage?
Also: if you wouldn't spend a fuckton on war 'merica could afford education for its people
>>80253286
The top effective marginal tax rate in California is 53%. The majority of middle class people that make too much to get federal financial aid for their kids' college, but not enough to be able to comfortably pay for it are taxed around 40% of income. That doesn't include FICA and payroll taxes paid by your employer. When Romney said 47% of Americans don't pay net taxes, he was totally right. And 50% of our tax base comes from the top 1% who apparently don't "pay their fair share." It's loony.
>>80254620
Ehhh..
I think this is a fundamental division between American and European culture. I, as a taxpayer am perfectly happy for my taxes to go towards other people getting degrees, even if a few people make bad decisions. I think there needs to be a drastic overhaul of the degrees on offer and the way they're taught but in principal I'm happy for my taxes to go to others as part of the greater good.
the education system should be more responsible for guiding people away from bad decisions by stopping retarded courses and having higher requirements for entry into higher education.
>>80254833
http://www.snopes.com/denmark-socialism-brutal-meme/
You have 25% fucking VAT on top of your income tax, that's insane. And your lowest tax rates are in the 40s, which is where our HIGHEST brackets sit. Couple that with lower wages, on average, than the same jobs in the states, and you've got SUBSTANTIALLY less disposable income. I'll take our system over that any day.
>>80255388
But we need our military to protect your little European nations.
>>80254127
It's called being a cuck to the banking system and a moron for defending it.
College in Spain isn't free, but it's not (yet) a product to be sold for banks to profit off students either. I graduated with 0€ in debt and I didn't spend a quarter of the money you dumped on your overpriced freedom degree.
Besides, soon I'll be able to immigrate and do your job, how are you going to justify spending that much money on your degree to compete?
>>80255331
>best Slovenian College is in the 300s
>3 american ones in the top 5
>>80255388
I agree with not spending shitloads on war. We should dial back our military to exclusively to a defensive force for the mainland and pull out of NATO.
As to a good wage, for a PhD or similarly educated professional, 100k minimum.
>>80243919
These 'rankings' are bullshit. Just have a look at the papers published in journals with high prestige. Hint: most of them are not from the US.
Extract from the current issue of PRL (which is a pretty good journal for physics) highlighted articles:
Spain 10.1103/PhysRevLett.117.026401
US 10.1103/PhysRevLett.117.027201
Norway, UK 10.1103/PhysRevLett.117.028002
China 10.1103/PhysRevLett.117.023001
Australia 10.1103/PhysRevLett.117.027601
Uk, Canada 10.1103/PhysRevLett.117.021301
Canada 10.1103/PhysRevLett.117.025301
Only people who have never worked in science take those 'rankings' for real. The university level education in (western) Europe is pretty high and most of the time on par with or better than your average college education in the US. In contrast to what your rankings imply, most of science is not done in the US. There are a fuckton of highly specialized labs all around the world.
>>80255388
I don't think the US gives a fuck about its people. I think the US could give free education but they earn so much money through student debt that they don't want to change. The US government appears to be oppressive in mentality.
>>80255640
"You get what you pay for," isn't a well known idiom outside of the USA.
>>80237843
Yeah but this:
>a place to get a degrees and higher education for more specialized jobs.
is the problem to begin with. We should be building general skills in our education system, with job-specific skills handled by on-the-job training. If you start specializing at the degree level, you introduce massive inefficiency. People pick a job they want to do, and by the time they have the degree, the market has shifted and they have to re-train.
>>80255676
My brothers girlfriend has a PHD and works in Birmingham aquarium for £24000 a year. The issue is that anyone can get a fucking PHD. You cant just demand a 100k salary if the industry wont pay it. Having a degree in the UK is almost worthless.
>>80255985
Oh yes, just learn to be a doctor "on the job". Just learn to be a lawyer "on the job". Just learn to be a civil engineer in charge of designing a bridge "on the job". What could go wrong?
>>80255701
That's one field. Look at journals in medicine- majority of major publications are based in the US. There isn't a lot of money in physics, so we don't invest in it much here- chemistry, biotech, and medicine are where it's at. We don't do a lot of "science for science's sake" over here, it's all about turning out papers that can get schools or companies patents that can make them cash.
>>80255511
>Let me tell you about your country
I pay 37% in income tax - which is the lowest tax rate there is - and my part time job pays me 20USD/hour
Pretty sure that's still better than yours nigga.
>>80256091
I'm taking about professors, not people with PhDs that couldn't land a faculty spot. Gotta sort the chaff from the wheat. The ones that fail to find a position are usually the ones that couldn't hack decent research or whatever, good riddance.
>>80255701
>physics is the only thing that matters in college
>see it makes you look bad
