If your country doesn't hop on the F-35 train they're militarily cucked
nice trips, but that is a plane
>not a train
>>80093555
I'd rather we buy functional jets from Ivan, than fall for your failed project. Only reason you're still making them is because you hope that you'll be able to sell them off.
>>80093555
Kek smiles upon you friend.
>>80093777
Kek provides.
>>80093982
t. retard that doesn't understand (or most likely isn't old enough to have seen past) military procurement programs on this scale
People used to hate the F-16. Now look at it. The slavs are about to get BTFO by China's exports as soon as they learn to make a functional engine.
Russia depends on foreign exports to subsidize their fighter research and India isn't buying the PAK-FA, neither is anyone else. They're going to be permanently a generation behind everyone else soon.
>>80093982
Ivan hasn't made a functional jet since the Mig-17
>>80094582
Russia will still be able to sell their shit planes to shit countries with no ambitions to take on the big players. It's still a declining sector though.
>>80093555
One of your most expensive joke.
>>80095743
Expensive doesn't matter when you aren't a Europoor :')
>>80095926
But it's still a joke.
>>80095695
I'd put money on Russia exporting some newer AA systems. S-400s and such.
>>80095743
At least Muhrica still has its sense of humor
>>80095743
>>80097204
If the F-35 is a joke, the Rafale is the chirping crickets after someone bombs.
>>80093555
nigga gtfo
>>80093777
It's a train if they can find a reason to give it yet another combat role!
>>80093555
>need mo moniez fo dem programs
t. Lockheed Martin
>>80093555
I wonder why Uncle Sam wants asswipes to buy the lesser jet while US has the superior air dominance fighter....hmmmmm.
Probably because the joint-strike plane has embedded Trojan Horses that the US can trigger when they want.
>>80097389
At least the Rafale flies and fight for real.
>>80093555
>buying someone else's weapons
>not cucking your national industry and pride
btw nice trips
>>80094582
>T-50 is confirmed for mass production in 2018
>PAK FA and FGFA are different projects with separate budgets, FGFA needs Indian funding because Russia doesn't export its latest military electronics and those need to be developed by the Indian side
>Nobody buys Rafale
>Chinks can't copy 30 years old engine of Su-27
The f-35 is pure garbage
Some one post sim pics from /k/ how S-400 btfo 4 F35.
If your country doesn't hop on the russian bomb train they're military cucked
>>80097478
> totally not a movie set
> British education
> education
>please buy our super invisible plane that doesn't exist yet goy
>just give us your money
>it'll be ready in 2016
>oh wait, it's not ready yet, we need more money, it'll be ready in 2018
>oh wait still not ready, give us another 100 billions, it'll be ready by 2050 I swear
The F-35 and the F-22 will rule the world!!
>>80093982
It's more likely to work out than the T-50
>>80095743
Less expensive than yours
>>80097478
I too enjoyed "Independence Day 2".
>>80093982
>failed project
kek, russia has cancelled most of Pak fa orders. plane is a mess, russians can't build anything but airshow trick planes. everybody says US sucks at fighter planes like it's some big easy joke and US is just terrible. thing is it's not true at all, it's incredibly hard even with billions US spends and now russia and china are finding hard truth. they literally don't know how to make all the stuff, it's going to take years and years and money (which russians don't have) to catch up. neither country has made 5th gen engine yet nor have ever even used stealth jet in service. US has been flying proper stealth planes (at least publicly known) since late 1970s
>>80098551
>T-50 is confirmed for mass production in 2018
newsflash, your country is too poor to even buy 15 of them, check the latest updates. not only that, pak fa still is using gen 4.5 engines.
hate the military industrial complex all you want (I do) but for all that money the US does have some pretty amazing tech. The F35 is certainly going to be an incredible war machine and pretty much already is. It's far more advanced than the F22 in some areas
the technology level on planes like pak fa and j-20 are 20 years behind F35.
>>80095695
>buying a plane that has lost all development already
Shit countries would buy such a shit plane.
>>80098030
>fight for real
Other than bombing people, it has never engaged in air to air. I know you are going to pull up some video about how in an exercise some Rafale totally got a kill on someone even though none of us know the rules of engagement.
>>80100523
>newsflash
2018 was confirmed a week ago. I'm pretty sure you're well informed and not taking that information out of your ass though.
>>80100089
Come on, the F35 cost something like 10 Rafales.
Cheap plane best plane.
Certainly the most profitable in modern history.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvIJvPj_pjE
Harriers, A-10s and f-16s do three different things. They do those two different things very well and stealth garbage makes it worse.
The f-35 is built to try to do all three of them and because of that it can't do either well. VTOL means small wings, wide fuselage. Tank busting means heavy weapons thus reduced maneuverability. Interceptors mean large wings, light loads hot engines.
None of these slot together right and the F-35 is like the car Homer built that ruined his brother's company.
>>80098008
>F-22
>Superior to the F-35
I mean, they're both overpriced and underperforming but still, the F-35 is the better pile of shit.
>>80101193
> having no idea what your talking about
> posting anyway
> this is a backwards thread
> even the op is the actual reverse of the fact
>>80101193
>look mom I posted it again
>>80101193
F-22 isn't underperforming, it will probably be the best fighter for decades to come. Just look at the powerplants on F-22 and F-35.
>>80101172
>Rafale C
>Flyaway Cost (2013 Dollars): $94 million
>F-35 Lighting II, LRIP 11
>Flyaway Cost (2016 Dollars): $100 million
lol no
>>80100755
No, I just said that it is at least in service... for bombing people, yes, but the """countries""" we fight doesn't even have an air force, what can we do?
Well.... The F-22 has a better engine. I suppose the F-35 might have superior Armour/weapons but why is that necessary when you could out run missiles in the first place?
Unrelated picture of a Vulcan :^)
>>80100900
you're the one who clearly doesn't know what they're talking about
2018 is the date they will be received by, however russian air force may never get more than 12 PAK FA
https://rbth.com/defence/2015/04/07/russian_defense_ministry_to_slash_orders_for_new_pak_fa_aircraft_45033.html
FYI USAF and USMC have already started receiving operational F35s since last year
>>80101771
When you're bombing a nations airports and ports into dust before you officially declare war on them, you'll want bigger, better weapons to do a thorough, better job
>>80101703
The price for the F35 is constantly increasing and is still not on sale. And talk about the maintenance costs...
I have no idea what's going on but I love these threads
>>80101175
>Harriers, A-10s and f-16s do three different things
>They do those two different things very well
This is so generic as to be meaningless. Quantify your assertions.
> stealth garbage makes it worse.
How?
>VTOL means small wings, wide fuselage.
No, it doesn't. Ignoring that all modern US fighters include a lifting fuselage, the location of the lift-fan is the same location as a dorsal fuel tank in the A and C. The weapon bays and S-ducts contribute to the width of the fuselage. See pic.
>Tank busting means heavy weapons
Like JDAMs and Mavericks which all three previous aircraft can carry.
>reduced maneuverability
If you ignore the lack of parasitic drag from storing weapons internally. And if you ignore the very real effects of airfoil design of which you are utterly ignorant.
>Interceptors mean large wings
Not necessarily. See English Electric Lightning, F-104, MiG-21 which all feature small wings. This is a tangential point anyway.
>None of these slot together right
Prove it
>F-35 is like the car Homer built that ruined his brother's company.
In what regard, or are you just engaging in abuse because you are a know-nothing Luddite without a real argument
Money wasted on idiot flying gun nut wet dream could have been spent on modernizing the F-15/F-16/F/A-18/A-10 fleet.
If your country doesn't hop on the stealth train train they're militarily cucked
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_Y_Wjag2oo
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2593644/The-stealth-tank-disguise-look-like-car-disappear-touch-button.html
>>80102393
>The price for the F35 is constantly increasing
Wrong. Pic related
>And talk about the maintenance costs
Why don't you talk about the increasing maintenance costs of 30-year old airframes?
>>80102225
There exist such things as jet bombers. Very fast and capable aircraft too, The F series are fighters.
>>80101771
>F-22
>Outrunning missiles
lewl
It's max speed is what, mach 2.5?
Modern air superiority is decided by information gathering and dissemination anyway and the F-35 is more advanced in those areas. Speed is a tertiary consideration behind stealth and E-War.
F-22's have been downed in wargames by Eurofighters, that'd hardly be possible if it could somehow outrun a mach 4 Meteor a2a missile.
>>80102550
>people this retarded genuinely exist
holy crap dude I'm not even memeing, you are actually an idiot. please stop posting and do some actual research before stuff this retarded again
>>80102652
>Stealth
>Tank
Pick one.
>>80093777
praise kek.... damn son
>>80102150
>April 7, 2015
Are you retarded?
>>80095576
>since the IL-2
>>80102713
I don't know about missiles, I'd assume each plane uses different ones though?
I also remember learning that the F-22's top speed was "undiscovered" but I cannot remember sauce
>>80102703
>Dedicated bombers
>In the era of the smart munition
The 1950's called, they want their ground attack doctrine back.
F-22 is noice plane
F-35 looks like his wife's fat son
>>80102958
you clearly are because you don't understand the difference between order amount and date received
>>80102713
>downed in war games
>meaningful at all in reality outside of giving pilots experience in varying scenarios
WEW LAD
>>80103131
Yea no. Nuke everything.
>>80103543
what the hell kind of stupid comparison is that? bomber vs fighter
>>80103093
If they had a way to build aircraft that could exceed mach 4, it wouldn't be classified you wouldn't be able to shut them up about it, they'd want everyone to know.
Plus it'd make the F-22's stealth features redundant since it'd be too fast for AA systems to engage.
>>80103165
>EXTERMINATE
>>80093555
The shit train.
Buy mirage or ef2000 or f15 or su27 or su35 but stay away from this meme plane.
>>80099798
>t. Increasingly nervous Rafale contractor
>>80093555
Checked.
Lockheed-Martin's delicious retirement plan.
How much into R&D so far? Trillions? YES!
How close to operational? WE'LL LET YOU KNOW!
The F-35, ladies and gentlemen.
>>80098877
Kek
>>80098877
>a more expensive F-16
Go away Sven
>>80103731
not necessarily, it could be a useful reconnaissance platform and why would you want you adversaries to know about your reconnaissance capabilities?
>>80093555
We have our own overpriced, national shit plane program.
>>80103722
I could be wrong but my guess is that the Typhoon was a multi purpose aircraft (both a fighter and bomber) So the creator of said picture most likely see's it as a fair comparison
>>80100523
PAK FA is pretty much just a 4.5 gen
>>80103833
>Trillions? YES!
no, it's billions you half brained mongoloid. trillion is for full cost of the program over 50 years
>How close to operational?
some planes are already operational
ITT: retarded shills who read 1 media report on F35 by journalists who know nothing about planes and are now experts on it
>>80103131
>ground
Tu-22's is motsly an anti-ship plane these days.
>>80103258
http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/2559994
>December 2015
>Chief of Staff of Russian Aerospace Forces
>55 units by 2020
>>80103833
>How much into R&D so far? Trillions? YES!
Wrong. The 1+ Trillion dollar price is an estimate that includes R&D, testing facilities, the planes themselves, and their maintenance over the next 50 odd years
>How close to operational? WE'LL LET YOU KNOW!
Already in IOC, famalam
>>80103445
Nigger there are life flying.
There are vids of grench kicking your amerifat asses with mirage.
Stealth is a meme.
F22 is bad every tool to build it got destroyed. You stck with 200 and build replacments.
F35 utter shit.
Get lost.
>>80102713
Eurofighter and F22 are both air to air, F35 is multi role with a ground attack bias.
The F35 sucking is a dumb meme promoted by cucks like Trudeau and David Axe. Y'all dumb as fuck.
>>80103543
He forgot super cruise to add with euro figther and that he can cary 13 crusie missels too. Taurus. And that the ef2000 can shoot the living crap out of the russki bomber.
>>80102784
If fuckhuge boats can be stealthy out in the open sea, why can't a tank be stealthy?
>>80102689
Mmmh, "budget estimates"... As long as it is still in development you are still investing on it. Do these figures integrate the development costs?
>>80104026
Copieurs!
Tell you what chaps. No matter what you have. F35's, F22's, Euro fighters. You'll never match our Swordfish in speed, firepower or stealth :^)
>>80104036
no, it's a moot comparison.
>>80104062
4.5 gen avionics and engines with almost 5th gen airframe
>>80104187
>http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/2559994
lol this is the old news about the initial order. the 12 is the latest update
>>80104242
>stealth is a meme when even in friendly wargames the F-22 has to use a big ass fucking mirror on the cockpit to increase it's RCS
S O U R
G R A P E S
>>80101175
You do know there are 3 variants of the F-35?
F-35A replacing F-16, B replacing AV-8B Harrier, and C replacing F/A-18C/D
A-10 is obsolete
>>80104379
Ef2000 is multipurpose.
From ATG to AA to recce.
>>80104242
>knowing the ROE's of Red Flag
>Red Flag has been known to respawn kills, force stealth fighters to turn on radar and other things.
Only the Luftwaffe would paint kills from Red Flag on their planes like they are trying to compensate.
Germany get your shit together. That's like scoring a goal in practice and telling everyone you won the game.
>>80103543
>TU-160M
>Can't maneuver for shit
>Limited counter measure options
>Antiquated ECM and ECCM
>Pretty much defenseless against modern ground-based AA and interception by enemy aircraft
>Paper decides to selectively represent only the areas it exceeds the Eurofighter
>Hurrr Russian bomber beats Eurofighter!
>GET SCARED PLEBS! DO AS WE SAY!
I'm not sure if the British media is determined to deceive the public as part of some nefarious plan, simple corruption or just plain incompetence but they seem to peddle ever increasing levels of bullshit over actual fact every day.
I've seen them describe the British Army's LMG as an 'assault rifle' and claim it's a special weapon issued to UKSF ffs, I'm pretty sure that they just kick any defence reporting to some unpaid intern who does a 5 minute google search and then prints it.
>>80102393
Look up the term Low Rate Initial Production (LRIP)
>>80104563
Because "stealthy" means "your anti ship missiles can't manage to lock onto me". It doesn't mean "avoiding detection entirely", that's stupid.
>>80104740
Ohhhh buthurt.
Radars see you figthers outmanuver you.
How many kills did your kek22 and rofl35 score?
Ohhhhh
Get lost.
>>80104825
As a bomber I doubt its meant to be a Hurricane :^) and understood
>>80104626
Which cost?
Because if you want Program Acquisition Costs, you can fuck off because France doesn't publish that figure
>>80105010
does it hurt to be this stupid? I hope for your sake you're memeing
>>80104026
>>forward canards
>>current year
>>80104987
No it means you have to get closer to get a decent lock or just build in stronger radars.
Point with stealthy ships is to hide beter from radar satelites that the russians are well known to use for recce.
300 meters of a ships flank cant be made stealth. As hard you like to try.
>>80105228
Retarded failstralian comes to life. Get a own plane program runing and then come back.
>>80102784
Tanks are most vulnerable to air attack and man-portable weapon systems from concealed infantry, making them hard for guided systems to track actually makes a lot of sense, it means aircraft have to come in low where they're vulnerable to AA and ground fire, and infantry have to get close enough to use unguided weapon systems, which they won't want to do since it's suicide outside of an urban environment.
>>80105561
I only realized this just after I typed it
>>80104385
No its a fact. Meme figther gets fuckt by F16. Has not even board canon. Fucking f4 desaster again!
Fucking gen3 figthers outspeed it.
Outmanuver it.
Have more payload.
Its a huge fucking pile of shit.
>>80105895
>Meme figther gets fuckt by F16
Prove it.
>Has not even board canon
It's most numerous variant does
>Fucking f4 desaster again!
Gunless Navy F-4s did better than Air Force F-4s with them. It's clearly not the determining factor.
Nor was the F-4, by any means, a disaster.
>>80105161
I'm just asking. The Rafale is well known to be pretty expensive, hence the poor sales figures, but the F35 is in development since decades (it was in a movie like ten years ago) and that costs a lot. You can literally give it for free now, you won't see the difference on your taxes.
>>80105895
Pack it in boys, call up Lockheed, Northrop, Boeing, BAE, Sukhoi, Mikoyan and Shenyang AC and tell them to shut it down. This German Autist has got it all figured out
>>80105010
Usually 100 kills to 0 losses actually
>>80105895
>Speed, maneuverability and payload
Tertiary requirements behind an aircraft's intelligence gathering and communication systems and stealth capability. They're nice to have, but if they come at the expense of either of those two capabilities, you're just creating an obsolete aircraft.
This isn't the 1940's, dogfighting isn't the principle method of air-to-air combat anymore, where speed, weapons and maneuvering are king.
Now its spot the enemy before he spots you, pass this information as efficiently as possible to other aircraft and eliminate him with ultra-accurate beyond visual range weapon systems. An F-35 can guide it's weapon systems in far more reliably and defeat countermeasures more effectively than any Gen 3 airframe.
It's smaller payload and (supposed) inability to go toe-to-toe in within visual range combat are irrelevent.
>>80104703
The cut was before Syria. The initial order was 60 then reduced to 52, not 55.
>>80106349
>F-22 program start: 1981
>F-22 IOC: 2004
23 years
>F-35 Program Start: 1993
>F-35 IOC: 2013
20 years
>Eurofighter Typhoon Program Start: 1979
>Eurofighter Typhoon IOC: 2003
24 years
>Dassault Rafale Program Start: 1979 (as a part of the same program that would also become the Eurofighter)
>Dassault RafaIe IOC: 2001
22 years
Maybe, just maybe, cutting edge warplane are complex and time-consuming to get right
>>80093555
F-35s are literally shit desu.
>>80104825
Tu-160 penetrated NA air defense just a couple of years back. Zero response. There was a quiet shitstorm about it and a bunch of folks lost their jobs.
>>80107078
That says a hell of a lot more about US early warning than does it does about the TU-160
>>80106188
He don't even need to prove anything
The F-16 outmaneuvering F-35 meme is beyond retarded since the day the report was published on War is Boring
Especially when the 2 Norwegian test pilots even admit the F-35 is much more easier to control than their beloved F-16's
>>80107315
I know how War is Boring got BTFO.
I just want to let the German dig his own grave
>>80101172
No, and Rafales cost to maintain scared away more then one buyer.
>>80106950
It's reduced to 12 indefinitely until more are ordered. Makes sense really since they don't have the tech or money to actually finish it
>>80107078
Yeah but that's human error and/or badly designed systems, not some ability of the aircraft itself.
If it was, they'd be doing it, reliably, all the time, and there'd be a lot more than just a quiet shitstorm.
Don't misunderstand my post, I wasn't slating the TU-160M, it's great for what it was designed to do. I was just pointing out that selectively comparing it to the Eurofighter and suggesting it's superior is retarded and just the British media scaremongering to sell papers.
>>80093555
>buy our crappy plane
>p-pls
No.
Apparently F-35s get BTFO by our based Eurofighter Typhoons anyway.
>>80098008
>dat symmetry
>>80103907
>Gripen
>expensive
>>80107467
German has been digging their own graves throughout their entire known history
Don't even mind him. He'll do it spontaneously
>>80107645
Eurofighter = Best choice.
>>80107645
Fucking David axe and Pierre sprey cocksuckers. Now literally every retard armchair general in the world thinks the f35 sucks because they saw some stupid incredibly biased and wrong article or video on it
>>80107645
>our based Eurofighter Typhoons
>our
and no they don't.
>>80093555
Drones are the future. Controlled by highly-directional (ie. unjammable) laser or RF links.
What's the point of a fighter plane? It's not like it's going to give machine gun ground support warthog style. Hell even if the F-35 could do it, a drone with a decent UI could do it as well (don't use direct control, just draw a line on the screen and let the drone line itself up to brrrt the line ... no super-low latency control needed).
>>80108071
G'wan the lads.
We make a deliberate choice to not have an air force as we've cucked the Brits (and through them, NATO) into defending out airspace on their dime.
>>our based Eurofighter Typhoons
>>our
Only one of our countries has a long-term future in the European Union, Ahmed.
>>80108411
Ushering in a glorious era of home on laser weapons.
>>80102713
The F22's top speed is still classified, as far as I know.
>>80106865
and even there the F35 lacks.
Like the F4 tards who said you need no cannon your wrong. maneuvering and speed as always are more important. If you case would be right we would fly AWACS with missels.
Speed for BVR and GTFO.
manuverbilety for avoiding being hit if they get a lock and tam tam tam. You can count on that blufor is outnumber´d by the mass of planes the enemy can throw at you. Sooner or later you get in dog fight. Like the board cannon that was missing you regret not having it.
>>80108519
Needle in a haystack.
>>80108500
>We made the deliberate choice not to have an Air Force because we're poor as fuck and a decent world class military will always be out of our reach.
FYFY Paddy
>>80107467
You apparently didn't read it right. F35 for getting rid of advanced SAM systems?!
AHAHAHHAHAHah and now you tell me war is card game. Guess what happens when your F35 meets a flight of SU27 or SU 35 or how about EF2000 or Rafels? Your dead.
Meme plane for memers.
Dead project
>>80108071
This is the most effective recon/bomb mule in the entire world, seconded only by the Gripen.
Since it is what NATO planes do on 99% of their missions, it is a fucking good plane. If you want to burn a hundred million per plane and another million at every exit you do, feel free.
>>80108071
Thats actually pretty sweet that some countries operate prop planes for air defense.
The equivalent of playing knifey spoony if someone where to invade with jets, but sweet none the less. Probably makes for some cool airshows
>>80107477
and yet they have more buyers then the rofl 35
>>80107543
>It's reduced to 12 indefinitely until more are ordered
Straya please. There are 2011-2020 and 2016-2025 armament programs. The cut was to the former. They can obviously cut everything else down if the initial 12 in 2020 program will have problems but that's not likely.
>Makes sense really since they don't have the tech or money to actually finish it
It was already decided that navy will take the budget hit.
>why do you shit on F-35 after one article by an armchair general
>proceeds to shit on T-50 after reading one article
>>80100523
Based kiwi. America has been gods of the sky since kitty kawk and we always will be.
>>80108411
Manned fighters are going nowhere in this age of cyber-warfare and dependence on networks.
UCAVs are too vulnerable. And until we accomplish true AI, drones are going to compliment manned warplanes, not replace them outright.
>>80108071
Eurofighter was (and I presume still is) a disaster.
I worked on the program for two years on tranche II. Cassidean (I think they are Airbus D&S now) could not organise a shag in a whorehouse. We got documents and drawings in Italian, French (yes French), Spanish, German and English. Incorrect drawings, part numbers, calculations. What a mess.
>>80108544
mach 2.5 /6
F22 is nothing more then a F15 with expensive corset.
At least it has super cruise not like that turd F35.
>>80093555
Who would win in a dog fight an F-22 or an F-35?
>>80093555
Just look at this uber stealth supreme flying suicide banzai Ananas. Can own that crappy burger niggertronic shitcan any time.
>>80109163
Your dad works for Nintendo?
>>80106996
Thanks. I did not figured it like that (1979??).
B-but the F35 is still not finished yet...
And seriously the "stealth doctrine" is risky to say the least. It reduces the capability of the airplane for an hypothetical advantage. Cost more, carry less, and pray that your enemy is not capable to find you...
>>80109188
The F22 is far superior to the F15 in terms of technology, low observability, BVR capability, combat coordination, and manuverability.
It's good enough that the USAF is regretting supporting the DoD's push to stop Raptor procurement. Especially, when the F35's future is somewhat uncertain.
>>80109214
F22. It is totally optimized for air-to-air fight. The F35 is a fancy bomb mule.
>>80109214
F-22 quite easily.
F-35 might edge it in BVR engagements due to it's more sophisticated (at least until they update the F-22) electronic warfare package but it's bulky and slow compared to the F-22 WVR.
>>80109452
>and pray that your enemy is not capable to find you...
This is more than uncertain. Modern radars can get a lock on the B2 as easily as we got the B52 ten years ago.
This advantage is going to fade fast and since there is delays on the delivery...
>>80108974
It's like that scene from the Simpsons where Sideshow Bob hijacks the Wright Brothers' plane. They scrambled the F-whatevers to intercept it but it moved too slow for them. Consequently our air corps is invincible.
In all seriousness they're used for flyovers for military parades (of which I only remember one in my lifetime which was 3 months ago) and maybe training one of our dozen or so military pilots.
>>80108848
We're one of the richest countries in the world, we just don't feel the need to compensate through burning cash on hardware that will never be used (we are neutral after all).
>>80109841
How ironic it was a Frenchman telling everyone airplanes have no use on the battlefield, and Frenchmen today telling us stealth is not going to be useful on the battlefield.
Is it on your blood to be wrong about the future of war? Maginot Line, airplanes, stealth...
>>80109532
If its was even remotely Superior to the F15 the air force would be all over the F22. Programm got stooped, all tools destroyed to build more them.
Sound more like lock shill and jewtim meme.
The trust vectoring and super cruise are the only advantages it has.
BVR wise nope.
Once F22 goes music on every and there wife's son sees the F22.
I hope they at least added the Doppler radar from the F15 in the F22 or a advanced version.
>>8010313
>wasting shitloads of money on smart munitions when dumb munitions are cheap and most just as effective against many targets.
>>80093555
F35? Why do you even bother if you have superior F22s?
>>80109915
You are wealthy per capita. That doesn't mean Ireland is a rich country, when the USA annual defense budget is more than your countries GDP.
So no, you can't build an Air Force because you are poor.
>>80109084
> UCAVs are too vulnerable
Good thing you can put a dozen or more in the air for the cost of one manned plane.
> And until we accomplish true AI, drones are going to compliment manned warplanes, not replace them outright.
The manned plane gets you little over ground control, just a little less latency ... and supposedly combat will happen at edge of radar now, so who cares about half a second of latency?
Drones networked with super high gain (ie. unjammable) laser and RF links are the future.
Niggers buy jets
White buy s400
>>80110044
You can make the F-15 thrust vector and supercruise.
Probably for a lot less money.
>>80110129
mimi out of arguments start bants with Irish because fuck you I hate you all your not my real dad.
>>80107749
It is a very impressive plane. For poor countries. If I was an Eastern European block country scared of Russia, a large order of Gripens would be a good choice.
>>80108923
Don't forget the newer-generation S300 and S400 SAM systems the Russians are selling. The F-35's survivability against them isn't as guaranteed as the Pentagon wants people to think.
>>80093555
t. Lockheed Martin project lead desperate to make back the hundreds of billions sunk into this plane that is still lagging behind the superior F-22 made over a decade ago.
>>80109214
Which ever locked on to the other first. Probably the 22 in most scenarios.
>>80110016
>it was a Frenchman telling everyone airplanes have no use on the battlefield
This was in 1906 and back then airplanes could barely take off.
> Frenchmen today telling us stealth is not going to be useful on the battlefield.
No one ever said that, we are just telling you that you should not expect it to win the war for you and your money would certainly be of more use on something else, like the meteor or a new AWACS.
>>80093555
trips never lie
>>80110231
it has its merits. But its has its draw backs too.
I hope Belarus is flat with no hills threes and mountains and the 300 meters minimum lunch high got removed or Worked out. You have unlimited ammunition and the radar cant be jammed.
I hope you get what i am saying.
>>80110298
>You can make the F-15 thrust vector and supercruise.
0/10 bait
Too obvious.
>>80110298
who knows if the main structure an handel the stress. but yes you can.
Thats i think the test bed for the F22 systems you showing in pic related. Now put some F22 rims on it and you got pimp my ride.
2 gazilion dollars please.
>>80110129
>You are wealthy per capita. That doesn't mean Ireland is a rich country
That's exactly what it means you dingus. If per-capita figures are meaningless and absolute numbers are all you go by, then everywhere that's not the USA, the European Union and China is poor.
>when the USA annual defense budget is more than your countries GDP.
Denmark is a pretty similar country to Ireland in terms of size and wealth and has fighter jets in its military. There's no reason we couldn't have a proper air force if we wanted to, we just don't want to spend hundreds of millions of euro on shit we have absolutely no use for.
>>80110378
The 22 basically has twice the unit cost and a large portion of its R&D was carried over to the F35. The F35 is the first true 5th generation sensor and avionics plane. The F22 is the only true 5th generation airframe.
>>80110375
best thing is.
Sams are on the ground.
Radar goes up.
Planes BIG FLAT BELLY IS SHOWING!
oh boy.
so stealth.
Only 4 weapons in the bay.
Cant have externals or total loose of stealth.
>muh stealth meme.
>>80102489
>This is so generic as to be meaningless. Quantify your assertions.
F-35 can go on support missions with full payloads at supersonic speeds.
All the planes you listed cannot physically do that because they carry their payloads externally.
A-10 or Harrier will not be able to defend itself as well as F-35 on support missions.
Also, you're ignoring the huge cost savings in reducing your logistics down to one airframe. The navy did it when they replaced several aircraft with the Super Hornet and Growler.
>>80110520
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0RbanvcPmI
Iran is stepping up their game with this new toy.
>>80110812
It is made of radar absorbent materials. Also, your analogy isn't that great, since most radar tries to detect planes at the longest distance they can. If the plane is overhead and you have a radar image of its belly... it's too late for you.
However if you're trying to detect the plane at very long distances, you're most likely hitting it on the sides for front.
Also, the internal payload is for the reasons I state here.
>>80110868
>>80103907
Pls Norway you guys will have less than 30 of those ultramodernsuperlazershooting f-35 who require special hangars that in case of war would be destroyed by cruisemissles before anything happens.
You guys don't even have an airforce just gtfo this board.
>>80110725
No, a great number of countries have way more wealth than Ireland. There are a few countries in Africa alone that have more money than Ireland so please, spare us.
>Denmark is a pretty similar country to Ireland in terms of size and wealth and has fighter jets in its military. There's no reason we couldn't have a proper air force if we wanted to, we just don't want to spend hundreds of millions of euro on shit we have absolutely no use for.
Denmark's economy wasn't absolute shit until a year or two ago.
>>80110129
Give me one good reason Ireland requires an airforce
>>80110340
Indeed it is exactly what the intended customer is, Someone who don't have the money for f22, Rafale, etc.. but still want something that could go up against anything.
It is the perfect tradeoff.
>>80110868
super sonic only with after burner on.
great the range got down to 5 minutes if the engines not blowing up because of over heating.
get your facts right.
No super cruise on F35.
You want a navel plane go Rafael.
Faster more payload, detects stealth can hold its ground against interceptors.
You dont have to worry about salty water fucking up your supper expensive stealth paint.
>>80111352
Too have sexy planes that make noise.
>Not posting Gripen-chan
>>80111409
This, I don't think there is much better choices than that.
>>80111409
F-16 f110 has 29,000 lb of thrust. F-35 f115 has 41,000 lb of thrust. get your facts straight.
>>80111210
Radar absorbing is no invisibel.
Al what is needed is strong radar.
And ohh boy guess what. radar detects clouds and raindrops. you got no clue how precise radar now is with modern electronics.
S400 S300, heck Rafael and EF2000 have proven to detect stealth meme planes from the front. You can expect ground based radar AWACS to do this without a problem.
>>80111409
Let them screw themselves over with their national plane. It will be easier to deal with in WW3.
>>80111665
*F-35 has p&w f135
>>80111544
Are you implying our PC9s aren't sexy??
>>80111665
>lb
is that some african unit?
Even s 300 can shot this piece of shit
S500 testing now
>>80111571
Uhh, unmanned? Why have I not heard of this before? Please Sven tell me about this unmanned variant.
>>80111665
And no of this planes can go without afterburner to sonic speeds.
Ef 2000, Rafael, F22 can WITHOUT. HUGE ADVANTAGE that the kek 35 dose not have.
The F35's main issue is having to make one of the variants VTOL, The VTOL version has dictated the engine placement and general fuselage shape for all of the variants. Leaving you with an admittedly very advanced aircraft which Lockheed has done wonders with to make functional but the basic design is pretty badly flawed but at this point there isn't much that can be done about it.
The central single engine needed for the VTOL means that its less survivable especially for naval use as if the engine fails your dead, it also means that it has less space for missiles or bombs internally so it cant really carry much of a strike package unless you load it with external pylons which ruins the stealth, speed, range and manoeuvrability.
>>80111878
We are discussing aircrafts here not SAM systems.
A mim-82 PATRIOT or ASTER-30 can down a su-35 but that is irrelevant as those systems are SAM systems.
>>80111983
F-22 was designed to be a fighter and has two engines. Of course it's going to go faster than a single engine multirole.
>>80111851
Maybe CN-235
>>80112089
yeah but penta keck claims now the F35 needed to kill things like S300/400 bla bla bla. because apparently, it cant hold its ground against fighters. how can you with top speed of mach 1.5 on after burner.
>>80110868
Nigga is pro-F-35 dude
>>80112089
Lol.
Patriot to slow garbage. S 35 make work, smoking some cigarettes and return home
>>80111746
Do you have a source for the "proven" effectiveness of EF and Rafale radar versus F35?
>>80112005
lack of canon also on the navel version. once you shot your missiles what you do get rid of the other SSM´s? Spit on them? watch down on your carrier burning?
>>80111326
>No, a great number of countries have way more wealth than Ireland. There are a few countries in Africa alone that have more money than Ireland so please, spare us.
Spare you? Spare us your thundering economic illiteracy. If you were to consistently apply your logic, then Turkey is richer than Switzerland and Nigeria is richer than Norway.
>Denmark's economy wasn't absolute shit until a year or two ago.
You're trying to make our current rapid economic growth sound like a bad thing.
Tbf we did have a recession from 2008-2012ish like most of the western world, but sure listen that was preceded by a twenty year long boom so we needed the shock to knock our productivity back into place. We're reaping the benefits from those reforms now.
>>80112517
The F35 needs to be escorted in order to effectivly deliver a strikepackage, As you said it waaaaay to slow for those kind of missions.
The enemy airforce will scramble and intercept before a single f-35 has reached their targets.
S-300/400 are good systems, But that is because the Soviets and even Russia today has always had inferior fighters and have relied on SAM systems in order to defeat Nato aircraft.
>>80112632
meads sam replaces this system.
>>80093555
How is this shit bettern than lets say 5 grippens? Everyone with half a brain would know that more cheap easy to maintain planes are better than one that have problem if his Internet connection crash.
>>80111976
I just googled Gripen E and saw this come up. My father is working on something in collaboration with Saab Aerospace and pretty much all other industrial giants in Sweden. Something to do with machine learning and big data for industrial applications. I think I recall him telling me that they are working on some kind of JAS drone as well as a completely new replacement for the JAS 39 Gripen.
He worked on the JAS 39 Gripen and Saab 2000 as a physicist and programmer. He made some software that calculated local air pressure and other forces on aircraft. I'll upload pics of the stuff he worked on if you give me a moment.
>>80112107
You cant really call the F35 multi role its not really a good anti air fighter and its a terrible ground attack aircraft max load out while being "stealth" is currently listed as 2x 1000 lbs bombs and 182 rounds of 25mm cannon, when you compare that to a real ground attack aircraft like the A-10 which can carry 16,000 lbs of bombs and 1,174 rounds for its 30mm cannon it looks a bit anemic
>>80093555
The F-35 would be an improvement on our current fighter capability.
>>80113024
By they I mean Saab, not him.
>>80112632
>Patriot slow
You do realize that a Mim-104 Patriot in PAC 3 flies at 4,1 mach?
A SU-35 would be downed unless it found cover or got really lucky.
>>80113036
Most support these days is just dropping one or two laser guided bombs anyway.
Also, the A-10 cannot defend itself air to air any better than the F-35.
>>80112089
>Mim-82
Got a brainfreeze correct name is Mim-104 kek
>>80093555
Not as good as F-22, Typhoon, Su-37, maybe not even Raphale. F-22 was way overbudget and the F-35 is the budgeted mass produced version of the Raptor. inevitably lower cost per plane has lead to less capability in the JSF.
It's only redeeming feature bieng the Vtol version which i beleive only the Marine corps possess.
>>80112005
Take a look at the cutaway. The lift fan point is invalid.
And modern single engines are more reliable, two engines mean rolling the dice twice for something to go wrong. It's part of why the F-16 is more reliable than the -15
>>80113252
Everything you said was wrong. First you compared a multirole to three dedicated fighters. Then you said the F-35 is the same as the F-22.
People are missing the main point of this. The F-35 is designed to fight more modern needs and replace multiple specialized aircraft. I'm not sure how people can argue this is bad when the Navy does it all the time. Most recently they replaced several aircraft with two planes: the Super Hornet and Growler
We got cucked into purchasing the F35, when instead we could have bought the F18 or the Eurofighter instead.
>>80113036
>you can't really call the F-35 milti role despite the fact it's multi role
okay
>its a terrible ground attack aircraft max load out while being "stealth" is currently listed as 2x 1000 lbs bombs and 182 rounds of 25mm cannon, when you compare that to a real ground attack aircraft like the A-10 which can carry 16,000 lbs of bombs and 1,174 rounds for its 30mm cannon it looks a bit anemic
You have it backwards. Just about anything can work as a bomb truck. However, you really want VLO features and superior sensors to fight a modern IADS.
They have multiroles for most attack missions. The F-4 Phantom could drop as much as B-17 back in the day.
>>80113136
>>80113024
I like the Gripen better than the F35, cheaper to run, easier to maintain, can be reloaded/refueled by idiots and designed to operate from roads.
The gripen is a better plane than the F-35 TBQH.
>>80113187
An A10 can have 40% of its airframe blown off (including one engine) and still fly back to base.
>>80093555
We are too poor to afford those.
What i would like is some sweet S 400
>>80113508
You guys+Norway should have bought some Gen 4+ dual engine aircraft.
Instead you decided to buy the F35 which is probably the worst choice you could have made.
Heck i'd rather keep the f16s over it.
>>80113187
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH
>>80114020
>Heck i'd rather keep the f16s over it.
Why? F-35 is basically what the AF wanted the F-16 to be before the fighter mafia fudds cucked it.
>>80098454
true. India just inducted Tejas. Don't know how it performs though.
>>80114177
Which is why it was restricted to medium altitude bombing and pulled from attacking the mediocre air defenses of Republican Guard in Desert Storm
>human pilots
Not even once.
>>80114578
No shit, it's a CAS aircraft, not so much a SEAD.
>>80112698
No F35 did do a one on one with a Ef2000 or a Rafael.
So no proves. Gotta wait and see what exercises will show if the air force takes the kek 35.
>>80113187
The A10 was made to be sacrificed, and time proves that it is a good doctrine in real warfare.
>>80114189
Maybe the f35 is perfect for you with your $700 Billion dollar budget.
But for us other countries it is simply an inferior platform for the same mission that an older aircraft would do the same or maybe even better.
Remember the F-35 needs specialized hangars in order to even operate.
Much of mainland Sweden and Denmark is in range of Russian Iskander missles which would destroy our F-35s if we bought them before they even had a fighting chance.
With an aircraft like the gripen for instance we can take of on the road, and just combat spread them out in the forest.
This is simply not possible with the f35 and is one of the biggest reasons why we don't want it.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kj9YKu7_oXc
In the video, Swedish Gripen landing on roadsidebase in the middle of the woods of Finland.
>mfw all this talk about f22s and f35s when drones will replace everything in 5-10 years
L O L
>>80113187
timmy didn't we talk about posting on adult image boards?
>>80113502
>dedicated fighters
The Rafale is pure multi-role.
It's simply delicious to watch the butthurt the F-35 causes.
>>80113509
True but as far as sensors go its possible to refit older aircraft with more modern sensors and would likely be cheaper and still be a higher performance aircraft.
I admit the F35 is an advanced aircraft in all areas but my main issue with the F35 is that the design has had to compromise in too many areas to try fill too many roles.
It could've been a much better aircraft if it wasn't for the VTOL variant dictating the fuselage design limiting the number of engines and size of the internal weapons bays, which limits its speed and carry capacity.
The F35 is already costing a lot to buy for an aircraft with more limited capabilities than older aircraft but it seems like it will also cost more to run as you need to fly more missions or put more aircraft in the air to do the same job.
>>80107949
I read all those articles on war is boring and the blatantly obvious bias lead me to do many hours of research on the f35s.
Is warisboring run by commies like wtf
http://tass.ru/en/defense/886630
Oh my god niggers. New TOR m2u here
Muricans never have balls to die
But euro slaves can:)
Has anyone got an opinion on our new LCA Tejas? Is it any good?
>>80116062
As long as it can remove Kebab in a timely and economical way, it's good.
>>80116062
Looks good, I like delta wings. And at least it is yours.
But didn't you bought a lot of french planes lately?
>>80116527
Those are Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft and Tejas is a Light Combat Aircraft. Different purposes.
>>80114929
You're scared of Russian SRBMs targeting F-35 hangars, but not of Russian fighters and air defense systems BTFO'ing your gen 4 fighters?
lel
Also there's nothing that stops the F-35 from taking off/landing on a road. You could go for the F-35C if you want a beefier landing gear, and you can even get a drag chute on it. The F-35 also has a much higher T/W-ratio than the Gripen, so it'll probably take off much quicker
>>80105010
Bruh...the f35 is gonna go in drop a bomb. Wait for the medics to show up, drop more bombs. And dip out. We've been flying f22s incase Russia wants to get destroyed over Syria or to ensure pilots survivability. The only real air to air fighter we got is the f22. Which will literally run miles around anything currently out. We're even talking about bringing the f22 production line back up to upgrade the shit out of it because our f 35s are literally teched the eff out. Not sure if you guys are trolls or honestly believe we're trying to jew our allies for money. Honestly I would love to jew u on the f 22 and f 35 but enjoy your euro fighter. Competition is good. But honestly f35 would save yall cunts money. If there is anything u can trust u can trust us to save money on the long run on maintence
>>80116966
Yes, one SRBM onto one of our hangars and bam the entire fleet in grounded.
With the Gripen we can literally hide it in the woods and re-arm/re-fuel take of and go for BVR kills vs Russian Airsuperiority fighters like SU-27/Su-35s due to the fact that out aircrafts carry METEOR missles.
With the 120km range it has we can fire it and and return to our coastline and fly low avoiding all Russian airdefence.
The Gripen is the superior choice for us countries that border/live in proxmity Russia.
My country has those useless machines tfw they don't even work
>>80106996
You don't need 20+ years to make a downgrade of a plane that cost you 23 years.
>>80093555
>militarily cucked
>made in chinkland F-35's
"come do our work for us... and it will only cost you billion$!"
>>80105895
What I'm trying to say is. Enjoy your millions of more refugees once the f35 gets to bombing. hans
>>80114929
Your assuming ur other airplanes aren't being watched by the bear as we speak. If they bear wants ur airforce destroyed it will be. Dont worry America will support you. I wouldnt fear the bear. He's cornered with atleast 300 Spears pointed at his throat.
>>80120077
Well the bear don't have the guts to do something like that, And yes he could easily destroy the majority of our airforce simply by launching iskanders on f17-Ronneby and it would be hard for us to counter anything after that.
But iam certain a Russian mainland invasion of Sweden would fail as there simply is noway the Russian army is going to keep us all in check.
Thank god for our cucked but armed people.
>>80098008
>absurdly expensive
>requires a veteran pilot with tons of training
Our whole military revolves around showing off the newest, scariest tech and maintaining deterrence. The moment an actual general war breaks out, this fancy ass tech is going straight into the trash in favor of more robust, reliable equipment.
>>80117679
Son, Russia knows you parked that Gripen there before you even attached that Meteor missile.
And there's quite a bit more to making a BVR kill than just the missile. Who says you will get a lock on before a Su-35 will? You can be sure the F-35 sees any other plane (bar the F-22) before it sees him, though.
Also from what I gathered, Finland is gearing more towards the F-35 than the Gripen, and you know what Norway and Denmark chose.
>>80121729
>Son, Russia knows you parked that Gripen there before you even attached that Meteor missile.
Definantly but remember we got loads of these aircrafts stored outside of iskander range.
There will be time for us to combat spread many of them which will make further intrusions on our soil hard to make as our fighters would intercept enemy aircraft from out of nowhere.
>And there's quite a bit more to making a BVR kill than just the missile. Who says you will get a lock on before a Su-35 will? You can be sure the F-35 sees any other plane (bar the F-22) before it sees him, though.
The thing is the SU-35 has a more powerful radar but the the SU-35 can't fox of on the gripen before the gripen does as the gripens missles have much muuch longer range.
for instance the R27ER is not effective on ranges 60-70 kilometers while the Meteor is still damn effective at ~120km.
Things like these make it very hard to tell who would win a fight as the SU-35 most likely has the advantage in radar war (espescially if they are supported by AWACS)
But they can't go too close or their RWR will detect a missle launch and they have to take evasive manouvers.
>Also from what I gathered, Finland is gearing more towards the F-35 than the Gripen, and you know what Norway and Denmark chose.
For the case of Finland it is either Gripen E/D or F18 Superhornet.
Got a very good personal source who told me.
>>80121729
>Finland is gearing more towards the F-35 than the Gripen
Here's enormous pressure coming from the US to pick the F35 thanks to the stupid deals our goverment made.
>>80122688
forgot my unrelated image.
>>80121405
>more robust, reliable equipment
See the incredibly long tenure of the A10, designed in 1970 for being cheaper as possible. Apply the same philosophy for a fighter multi-role and with your level of engineering you'll get the good shit.
