You can espouse whatever political ideology you like, as far as I'm concerned, but I have to tell it like it is when it comes to transgender individuals, /pol/. I may not be as red-pilled as all of you, but I certainly understand where /pol/ is coming from on a lot of things. However, I don't wish to speak here of cultural Marxism, globalization, or Zionist Jewish elites. This thread is for the discussion of transgender individuals, and the case for their actual existence.
I know all the arguments, that it's a delusion, a mental illness, that there is no way to truly change sex anyway. But all of these points ignore the reality that in clinical psychology, the best way to treat a patient is with what works most effectively. If transgender individuals really suffer from a "delusion of assumption," how can you explain the fact that psychologists have found no method that is even comparable to gender transition when it comes to alleviating suffering?
I would also like to open myself up as a source of knowledge on the topic for any who are interested, though I will hazard that most individuals replying to this thread would be uninterested in engaging in a legitimate dialogue and will instead regress to memeposting. Nonetheless, /pol/, you could not be more wrong on the topic, and I am here to inform. If you prefer debate, I'm all yours, but otherwise I am happy to answer questions, provide evidences, you name it. Engage in this thread with an engaged mind and critical thinking skills enabled, and I'm quite certain you will see that there is more to it than simply what the "crazy degenerate" theory provides.
Please someone debate me, I'm honestly just itching for a good debate
>>80049835
Nothing wrong with trannies, they have been around forever.
Everything wrong with glorifying tranny culture.
t.a gay dude dealing with glorified fag culture
>>80049835
I AM A BANANA WHY WON'T YOU SHARE MY BELIEF THAT I'M A BANANA THIS IS OPPRESSION AND DIE CIS SCUM
>>80051158
>glorifying tranny culture
Well I certainly agree with you on the large part, as the major question is "are they degenerates who should be gassed?" On that we agree strongly. However, the question of glorification I'm less clear on. For the record, I think we generally make a mockery of trans people rather than glorifying them. But there is a lot of room for discussing what glorification actually is and means. I would posit that glorification of the homosexual lifestyle is more pervasive than that of the tranny lifestyle, though this is speaking mostly from my experiences growing up and less with the modern media.
Part of this is to do with the way in which glorification is done by libs though. For instance, when liberals go "wow, she's so pretty" in regards to a tranny that frankly is hideous, it is an attempt at glorification, but it's really sort of pandering and dismissive in a similar manner to the way in which liberal approaches to race relations are often racist.
I would be curious to hear from you though, my faggy friend, what do you think of when "glorifying trans culture" comes to mind?
>>80049835
Gender transition has been proven to be ineffective though. Post-ops still kill themselves constantly, as they should. Psychology isn't even allowed to research other methods because it's "bigoted" to not accept their delusions.
>>80051420
This is the retarded memeposting that I of course referenced in my OP. I will nonetheless address it with reason and ask you if you think it's more likely that the individuals who you strawman care about individual beliefs regarding their state of being or not being a banana than perhaps the possible case that they do not care greatly what a majority of individuals think about their particular lifestyle choices and would simply like to practice the liberty of treating their own bodies as they please?
Of course your worldview is based on nothing more than stereotypes, but it is still worth mentioning to you that most trannies want nothing to do with gender politics and would be quite happy to receive their treatments and simply live in peace. Whether they pass all the time isn't relevant, and I think you probably haven't ever interacted with a transgender person.
>"Trannies are alright guys, we're normal I swear"
fucking saged. Gas yourself immediately
>>80049835
sage *rolls eyes*
>>80051887
>as they should
You, my friend, may be beyond reach for communication on the topic, simply as you would rather see individuals die than receive treatments that work for them. That is true degeneracy. Does your ideal psychology advocate mercy killing?
>>80051887
>This.
>>80052100
>>80052105
I know there are intelligent people somewhere here. Let's hear the citations, creative ideas, alternative viewpoints, etc. Is your entire conservative ideology really built on a foundation of memes?
>>80049835
FUN FACT: HERR WURST IS NOT TRANSSEXUAL
He openly denied believing being a woman.
Of course this got some panties in some bunches...
>>80049835
>transition is best treatment
Because there is no widespread research and discussion on any other treatment because it will get you death threats and removed from tenure
>>80052179
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
>>80052167
Even though (As an utilitarian) i think that death is wasteful. He is right about medical treatments.
>>80049835
I'll bite.
I'm totally fine with people dressing however they like and doing whatever they want with their own body. Where I draw the line is at the point of a transperson feeling entitled to have everyone else having to adapt to it. Seeing as it's (currently) impossible to change sex I see no reason why society should act like it is. A transperson should as such not be able to rely on society to go along with their personal understanding of an objective fact.
If you disagree with me, or see some flaw in my argument feel free to tell me so.
>>80052167
Not an argument
Transgenders are a load of horse shit, you can change your genitals, you can change your clothing and you can change what you voice sounds like, amongst many other things.
But you can never change your chromosomes. :^)
>>80052325
I love that it's the Germanfag that knows this. Indeed, Herr Wurst is a drag queen and not a trans individual. I posted that in the hopes that someone would notice and also because I felt that the facial hair would be more provocative.
Now that we're bringing drag into this too, it brings to mind some of the dissent seen within the "lgbtqia++ community". I'm going to assume that many of you are aware of what a TERF in regards to feminism is, but I may be entirely wrong on that. For anyone who doesn't know, it's a "Trans-Exclusive Radical Feminist." These feminists have been largely marginalized by the younger liberal crowd, however.
/cd/ on 420chan was pretty cool. How has the trans community descended to the sjw bullshit we have now?
>>80052389
>"If he agrees with the opposition he must be committing logical fallacies."
Try again.
>>80049835
transitioning doesn't alleviate anything. The guy still thinks he's a woman when he's not. His new body just makes it easier to think that way. The condition doesn't disappear.
>>80052615
The LGBTQ-whatever community is bound to cannibalize itself because it is based on "enemy of my enemy" rhetoric rather than common principles and views of the world. The irony is that neo-feminists act as a catalyst for their destruction since they enjoy playing the oppression olympics and inadvertently marginalize people within the groups they claim to support.
>>80049835
Guy is a drag queen, not a trannie though.
>clinical psychology
Into le trash it goes. As worthless as sociology.
>>80052490
Calling to question a speaker's motive is certainly valid in argumentation and in this case I am questioning the willingness of the speaker to discuss the issue with parity.
In addressing their claim that suicide rates are still very high in "post-transition individuals," it should practically go without saying that the very attitude exhibited by the original poster here is contributing to the issue. However, the poster acts as though transgender individuals do not typically experience improved mental states and the alleviation of depression and other conditions as a result of transition.
I would gladly go into a more in-depth discussion of a variety of causes that might explain the high suicide rates in individuals both before and after treatment, but it's clear to myself (and should be to others) that to conflate correlation with cause in such a manner is an utter failure of logic and would get anyone laughed out of even a psych 101 course. This is why the poster didn't get much of a response.
>>80049835
>the fact that psychologists have found no method that is even comparable to gender transition when it comes to alleviating suffering?
by that logic. so does suicide
>I would also like to open myself up as a source of knowledge on the topic for any who are interested
what credentials do you have other than shit anecdotes and passive aggressive pretenses
>>80049835
As a tranny I've made a lot of posts about this.
Had to look through archives to find one because I've written so much fucking shit about this that it makes me sick to my stomach to reiterate myself time and time again these days.
"The worst thing for trannies right now are liberals.
They have completely misinterpreted what gender dysphoria actually is and are doing more harm than good.
They are under the impression that social acceptance of trannies will increase their quality of life. The reality is that our quality of life is entirely our own responsibility. It is not societies obligation to treat me like a woman. It is my obligation to society to properly present as one.
The life of a tranny revolves around a controlled and calculated delusion, a distraction from our reality. Broad acceptance only chips away at that delusion.
The issue is that people that are aware of how to be a successful tranny are invisible and don't want to, and they shouldn't have to, speak out or for other trannies. So the new trannies that actually experience gender dysphoria will never truly understand how to cope with their mental disorder and the liberals will continue to make it worse by grouping anything and everything that is somewhat queer under the "trans umbrella".
Once again the regressive left will be responsible for the deaths of those they claim to love so much due to their own ignorance and utter incompetence. If you're a tranny, make sure you dedicate your life to living in stealth, for you own good. "
>>80052612
>Transgenders are a load of horse shit, you can change your genitals, you can change your clothing and you can change what you voice sounds like, amongst many other things.
But who ever said that the chromosomes were the point of any of it? Approximately nobody. The whole chromosome "argument" is the "you will never be a real woman" claim of opinion rebranded with additional Science™. For individuals who are trans, individuals who know/interact with trans people, and doctors who treat them, chromosomes have never been relevant beyond determining the original phenotype of the person before transition. I hope you're fucking aware of the difference between a genotype and a phenotype or you are one more datapoint on the growing chart of Aussie shitposters.
>>80052705
Stereotypes in your head is a huge part of it. There are plenty of trans individuals even on 4chan who do not buy heavily into the whole SJW thing and do not give a shit about identity politics. Mostly the people you see spewing bullshit about how trans is beautiful and genders aren't real and shit are hyper-liberal white female SJWs who are made to feel more special by their "rejection" of the gender binary.
>>80052790
It alleviates suffering, as is the point. That shouldn't have been hard to miss.
>>80052846
I am personally pleased to see dissent within the community and within conservative communities. Dissent means that ideas are being discussed in earnest. Unfortunately the level of rhetoric employed today is generally garbage-level, but that doesn't mean that it's a bad thing to be having disagreements.
its fucked when people think mutilating their own body is the best thing for them.
how can they preach body acceptance when it comes to being fat, but not body acceptance when it comes to how you were born?
>>80053184
>what credentials do you have other than shit anecdotes and passive aggressive pretenses
Mostly that I'm smarter than you. Nice Reddit gap though, fag. If I come off passive aggressive, it's just because I'm a sometimes latent asshole, but I'd hope that on the internet it isn't too passive. Surely you've heard that a claim or argument should be judged based on its merit rather than by who is saying it? Believing too heavily in a title or "credential" is an excellent way to get duped.
Hey guys, as a tranny I'm actually just a sick pervert and I know I'm sick.
I engage in risky sexual behavior with steangers, the riskier and more taboo the better.
I abuse drugs often, drink too much. I wear dresses in public because I CRAVE the attention and enjoy making normal people squirm and feel uncomfy.
Don't believe the others in this thread, we are poisonous.
>>80053595
>they
Watch that hyper-inclusive they though. Tons of trannies think fats are disgusting. As a transgender person myself, there is nothing more disgusting than a fat tranny (or trans fat, as I like to call them).
>>80049835
Psychology is Mumbo jumbo the individuals you describe are the ones nature would normally off on its own.
They don't belong in our world - it isn't ready for them.
>>80053900
>trans fat
Giggles
>>80053595
Just to amend that, mutilation is a pretty loaded term for medical procedures of any sort, but that aside, are you referring more to the physical act of altering genitalia via sexual-reassignment surgery or the gradual changes induced by hormonal transition? Of course I realize that if "mutilation" is a loaded term, then "medical" is the exact opposite of that, but the point should of course be to meet in the middle and to discuss the practice rather than the cultural biases that inform perspectives on it.
>>80053257
Very interesting post. I'm not trans but I've thought about situation if I would be and I'd want stealth as well because the whole point is to "be" or seem to be a woman and not some unholy abomination lol.
>>80053802
You are probably smarter than everybody here. Give peer-reviewed sources, my good sir.
>>80054062
>perspective
Yeah, we have our cocks chopped down the middle and shoved into out pelvic bones to create a faux slot for emotional denial.
It's basically permanent cosplay. There is nothing normal about it.
>>80053546
> difference between a genotype and a phenotype
Yes I do know what genotype and phenotype are, I might be an Aussie but I am not retarded. (probably debatable)
What I am trying to say is they can change their aesthetic™ , but can they truly become a different gender? PERSONALLY, I believe that it is impossible, until somebody can change their entire body, reproductive organs and all, are they really changing their gender/sex? Or are they simply changing their aesthetic™?
In the end it will always be practically impossible, sure it might make them feel better, but just because 'muh feelings r better' does not mean they have changed their gender.
>>80053802
Claiming he's smarter than people online.
Compensating much buddy?
>>80053257
>living in stealth
What about when someone hits on you and obviously wants to bang you. Are you honest about being trans then?
>>80054062
> mutilation is a pretty loaded term for medical procedures of any sort
There is no debate whatsoever that literally cutting your dick in half and then altering it to become a 'vagina' isn't mutilation.
>>80054437
It's not a vagina lol. You haven't seen the end result of these surgeries.
It's often gruesome and horrific.
>>80052457
I disagree with you, and I'll explain why.
It is not that I disagree with your major premise, which is that individuals should not be able to force on one another a particular worldview. If a person feels that a sex change is impossible, they are entitled to that view, and likewise if their view is that gender roles, feminism, etc. is all a bunch of hogwash. And you may be thinking "well, forcing that kind of viewpoint is exactly what liberals do," and THAT is where I must disagree with you. Acting like trans people represent liberals and liberals represent trans people as some kind of unified grouping doesn't accurately reflect reality. Trans people may be more likely to be liberal, but this would largely be simply due to biases that they have faced as a result of being trans. If you accept their behavior and presentation of gender without exercising a desire to injure, kill, or otherwise harm them, my question is what issue you take with transgender people in a day-to-day kind of scenario, rather than the hypothetical one in which a hulking she-man confronts you and demands that you buy her dinner as she is a real woman and a beautiful one at that.
If you mean simply that you do not wish to call them by their preferred names and gender pronouns, I would respond that that is entirely your prerogative, and while I personally disagree with it, nobody should be able to force you via any type of violence or threat to do so.
>>80053802
>Surely you've heard that a claim or argument should be judged based on its merit rather than by who is saying it?
yeah, but you didn't. re read your op
>>80054514
This is the ultimate form of narcissism.
>I'm going to step way outside the norm and make the rest of humanity act a certain way to entertain my delusions
>I'm going to demand your constant attention one way or another
>>80054413
Of course. If someone asks me out I'll go on a date with them and if it goes well I will tell them through text afterwards.
This may just be my experience with LGBT buggers
but especially Trans people seem to lack any depth of character and their only sole feature that they express is the fact that they're a fag
/pol/ can't debate for shit, it consists of 15 year old edgelords
>>80054675
Yeah, I often completely lie to my dates as well. When you are a strange perverted narcissist in a dress it's hard to be honest with normal sane people.
Only 2 genders
They are mentally ill
>>80054513
I know it isn't, it's just an open cut with the vagina aesthetic™ features, hence why I had the apostrophes around 'vagina'.
>>80054437
There isn't a debate because what you're discussing is semantics and people who understand reason know that there's no point arguing the meanings of words when words exist simply to best approximate meaning in the first place.
With that digression out of the way, it is obvious that the term mutilation carries with it serious negative connotations, so if we examine the speaker's intention, it seems that the word is chosen simply to malign the action. In that case, it would be equally or more effective to simply say "I dislike the surgery because..." Instead, the speaker has expressed only their emotions surrounding the surgery, making it a base claim of value rather than an argument.
Finally, to broaden my response a bit, neo-vag has come a long way, but there are still many transgender individuals who opt not to receive sexual-reassignment surgery (or SRS, as it is often called).
>>80054513
Of course I have.
>>80054635
Not saying definitively that you did or did not, but if you did read the post, then you saw how I wholeheartedly rejected such narcissism.
>>80054806
The results are not even close to a normal vagina lol.
It's like pulling the skin off your arms onto your back and claiming they are angel wings.
And then making the whole world call you an actual angel.
>>80054577
>yeah, but you didn't. re read your op
Please try harder, you're making us Americans look bad. Would it be that hard to include in your post something of a reference to the thing you're talking about?
>>80054936
And of anyone refuses to call you an actual angel, and refuses to tell their children that you are an actual angel (and not just a deranged middle aged man with his arm skin sown onto his back) you call that person evil and intolerant lol.
>>80054675
As long as you're honest before any sexual contact is made (including kissing) then you're a solid dude. Going "lol i'm trans btw" after you slobbered all over each other can get you a kind of ass beating you'd not enjoy.
>>80054514
That's the thing. I don't owe calling trannies by their "preferred pronoun". If he looks like a fucking man, he is getting called a he.
>>80054678
Aussie, I unfortunately have to say I agree with you. After much deliberation, I think I have come to the conclusion that this simply has to do with the average person generally being boring and two-dimensional to begin with. I once knew a pretty cool tranny, but the couple others I met were the most dismal people to spend time with. For what it's worth, they were just as shit prior to transition.
>>80049835
The narrative of blind acceptance has resulted in attempts to 'cure' homosex being all but banned. We have no idea how a modern array of anti-psychotics may affect the brain of a trannie, cause you libtard shits point blank refuse to consider the possibility that you have a diseased brain.
>>80052167
>Killing degenerates is degenerate
>>80054786
I'm sure you'll get over the horror of having lunch with someone you didn't know has a penis.
I'm not going to tell every single guy that gives me the slightest attention that I'm a tranny. Completely contradicts my entire original post.
But I can see you've been shit-posting pretty hard in this thread so far. Are you upset no one replied to your posts or gave you attention? Perhaps your antics about narcissism is a little bit of a projection?
>>80055068
>As long as you're honest before any sexual contact is made (including kissing) then you're a solid dude
Yes that is my principle.
>Going "lol i'm trans btw" after you slobbered all over each other can get you a kind of ass beating
I don't tell men to their face about it for that reason.
>>80049835
Why does that woman have a beard?
Wait no
Why does that bearded man look like a woman?
>>80054332
>>80054158
Friends, you claim to be smarter than someone every time you call them an idiot, do you not?
>>80055188
A tranny with sensible principles. Whaddaya know.
>>80052615
>I posted that in the hopes that someone would notice and also because I felt that the facial hair would be more provocative.
this proves everything i believe about queer bullshit
>>80055158
Shit, I'd rather be an ugly tranny than get on anti-psychotics though. That's just me, however. Maybe it's a bit ironic how I'm willing to take hormones for treatments but reject large parts of mainstream medicine, and it's definitely a bit ironic that I appealed earlier to the principles of psychology. I would be interested in hearing more about research of this type, and I hope that such research is performed, though I suspect it will mostly be found to be ineffective.
In some cases, even low doses of hormones can alleviate the mental suffering of trans individuals, but I believe these are fewer than the cases in which individuals continue to desire gender transition.
Please don't call me a libtard though, I hate those guys even more than /pol/tards, and I'm quite aware that I have a disease of the mind.
>>80055239
I try to avoid calling people "idiots". Calling them ignorant? Sure. Ignorance is often confused with idiocy. You still need to proportionate evidence that "sexual change" surgeries do work. I don't doubt you are somewhat smart. mon ami.
I'd like to say that I'm sorry you're going through that. I personally feel it's a mental illness not to put anyone down but I really don't see how it isn't. I can understand a degree of fluidity in sexuality but honestly believing you're not what you are clearly born as?
What really gets me is the levels of other mental illness and abuse that trans people have. Not to mention the ridiculous suicide rate especially post op. Another problem is the fact that I don't think making it a mainstream idea that you can just pick your gender is a great idea for kids.
>>80055079
And they don't owe you their company. I fail to see in this case how liberties are being infringed upon. Where "force" comes in, is, I guess the key question. You don't owe them anything, naturally, but you probably do have to make a choice between calling them what they ask to be called and them not liking you.
>>80055395
>HA, I KNEW people posting attention grabbing pictures along with their threads so more people reply was tranny exclusive behavior!
>>80052340
OP you're ignoring what seems to be a decently compelling argument against your case.
>>80055537
>I try to avoid calling people "idiots"
I really don't, but that's a respectable choice to make. I am want to call people idiots after they reject the principles of reason a few times. It may be that they are too ignorant to deal in ideas, but at that point they are beyond the help of most and will likely remain ignorant for life.
I don't have evidence that sex changes work because they largely are incidental rather than central to the point of my post. Fortunately, as I do not want to commit to digging around peer-reviewed shit at the moment, I can say that there is an abundance of anecdotal evidence on the matter, which actually comprises virtually all of medical evidence to begin with. So my argument will not be that surgery necessarily treats dysphoria and its symptoms, but rather that it can in many cases help these individuals and that the incidence of suicide seen can likely be accounted for by other causes. The burden of proof I think is on you to discredit the notion that gender transition can make trans people happier, as it's pretty much general knowledge. That leaves the matter of suicide as a separate claim, and I would be happy to address that more if I haven't done so thoroughly enough, but the argument would essentially be an examination of subjective matters that can lead to suicide in a variety of contexts.
>>80052340
>>80055829
Then it starts to boil down the whether you want research funding to go towards tranny research, though.
There are a lot bigger issues in neurological and psychological fields that need to be tackled, and worry about something that already has a semi-decent band-aid fix isn't exactly a priority, especially given how statistically insignificant trannies are compared to other patients.
Not that I agree with what OP has been posting, mostly been ignoring their posts.
>>80055637
I don't give a flying fuck if they hate me. I owe them nothing.
>>80049835
>how can you explain the fact that psychologists have found no method that is even comparable to gender transition when it comes to alleviating suffering?
it's liberal-haram to research that. any psychologist that tries that path of research gets takfir-ed.
>>80049835
>is even comparable to gender transition when it comes to alleviating suffering?
Uh... Actually, according to statistics, it makes it worse.
http://waltheyer.typepad.com/blog/2013/11/20-regret-changing-genders-over-40attempt-suicide-and-even-after-surgery-a-large-number-remain-traum.html
>>80055789
>Canada siding with the most progressive attention whores
>trying too hard to be relevant
There are easier ways to bring attention to you without fucking up the western culture, you know?
>>80052042
Why aren't you believing I'm a banana? Why aren't you telling me I'm the most beautiful banana? Where's my Banana of the Year award?
>>80055829
This has been posted by others in the thread, and I have addressed it. Well, that depends on what we mean by "it." I have addressed the notion that transition does not alleviate suffering. If the argument presented against my case for trans people (which is at its most fundamental level simply the case that trans people exist) is that there may be better alternatives, then I would respond that I am against the dogma often seen in modern medicine and science, and that trans people should definitely be researched more within the medical sciences. If there is a strong stigma against alternative research, then I say fuck the liberals who mandate that shit, and don't assume that I'm one of them. However, to turn that back on itself to some degree, it seems to me that for trans people to receive that kind of research, it first would be required that their illness is treated as legitimate rather than just crazy quirky lib delusions, as /pol/ often seems to act.
>>80055637
This approach (i.e. it's a mental illness) is not really wrong, but it isn't substantial either. To call something a mental illness is not to make any real claim of the nature of the thing beyond "well, it's a problem of the brain." Mental illness itself should be less stigmatized (not meaning it's a good thing, meaning we talk about it and treat it more effectively), and dysphoria is among this. Anyone who tells you that trans people are not mentally ill is almost definitely not trans, and they probably are basing this off of an extremely relativistic (i.e. culturally Marxist) perspective that basically boil down to some facile notion that "nothing has meaning anyway, let's all just fuck around." That's where the 1,000,000 fucking genders thing all came from, and most sane trannies want nothing to do with it, for what it's worth.
>>80055789
Good snark, leaf
>>80049835
post boipucci
>>80056781
You are disgusting
Conchita Wurst isn't transgender, he's a drag queen. It's how he makes his living and what he does to entertain. They don't go to the store in drag and dont live in drag, it's only when they're performing or acting as Conchita.
>>80056589
>pointing out logical fallacies means I'm siding with progressives
Lol, Argentina niggers trying to engage in conversations is cute.
>>80056116
Anecdotal evidence must be taken with a grain of salt. The effectiveness of a medical procedure must be proven (Years of peer-reviewed studies) before using it, not the other way around (e.g. vaccines).
It is the most logical and safest way. No hard feelings, americanon.
>>80056289
You're just being belligerent for the shit of it now. I don't mean to them, act however you want to them. But you're expressing a prideful belligerence that seems to me like you're taking it as some kind of a bold political statement. Whether or not you call them "he" instead of "she" or vice-versa is entirely your business, but your fixation on the notion of "owing" them something definitely speaks to projection and insecurity on your part.
>>80056124
This is actually an excellent point, and I'm glad you raised it. Of course, funding for such research typically does not come from taxes anyway, so it's less a political issue, but it's still worth taking into consideration in any discussion of trans psychology.
>>80056389
Way to Aussiepost. It took me like 20 seconds of reading your blog and googling to discern that that page is written by a "reformed transgender" individual who found salvation through God and now dedicates their life to writing on the matter. It's far from an impartial source, and the evidence that is actually cited (from a newspaper?) faces the same trouble of confusing correlation with causation that I discussed earlier (and wish I could remember the related medical term for) and the fact that it is not very representative anyway.
>>80056659
If you would like to live your life as a banana and are not harming anyone, I would not be too inclined to stop you, I would just certainly not wish to spend time in your company, as you do not have to do with trans individuals.
>>80049835
I have no problems with trans people who basically play dress-up and identify as females, like the OP pic. What I do have a problem is people permanently mutilating their bodies in order to feel better about themselves.
You wanna act feminine, go right ahead. You don't need a fake vagina to do it, just wax your body and take it up the ass.
>>80049835
There is one very very important fact that the LBGTQIA culture push is forgetting. It is 100% parasitic. They cannot reproduce in any way, and only gain numbers from the heterosexual world.
This is why mainstream culture should be entirely heterosexual, they are the only ones capable of continuing the human race in any meaningful way.
>>80054858
The reason the word mutilation is used is because it is. All surgery is mutilation, the second a scalpel or lazer or drill pierces the body it is considered mutilation. The difference is, there it is needed for some life threatening cause or to stop damage or get to an area that needs to be repaired.
Until we can actually transplant a vagina+uterus+ovaries, gender reassignment surgery is nothing but mutilation, without a direct medical condition, not proven to lower suicide rates among individuals with gender dysphoria, and can have severe medical repercussions.
>>80056589
>Implying you knew what i thought
>Implying you can read minds
Not an argument
>>80056878
>calls someone else disgusting
>posts furfaggotry
>>80057313
Medical efficacy is entirely determined based on anecdotes is my point. A peer-reviewed study is a collection of anecdotes. Indeed, for a treatment to qualify as medically significant, it need only demonstrate improvement in the condition of 20% of subjects. Gender transition is generally entirely reversible in its early stages, and I would hazard that most individuals who will not be helped by it would not follow through with lifelong transition.
If you still maintain contention over this (without hard feelings, Mexifriend) then I invite you to reject in any way the notion that at least, even if transition is not right for everyone who seeks it out, then it is beneficial to some people. This is of course only the fundamental form of the argument for it being an effective medical treatment, but so long as it were found to alleviate suffering in some trans patients, it would be considered a valid medical treatment supposing its prescription were properly understood and moderated. As for suicide, can we agree that there are likely to be other causes aside from "the surgery/transition literally did not help at all"?
>>80056589
>>80057671
>argentina niggers literally arguing with themselves
wew, and they call trannies mentally ill
>>80057352
>If you would like to live your life as a banana and are not harming anyone, I would not be too inclined to stop you
This is an extra individualistic state of mind
If you let them think they can be bananas, then some people will go out of the wood and claim "hey I'm a fucking apple", some other will say "why hello I'm a pear", and so on and so on until you notice there's a fucking invading army at your gates and half your valid age-fighting men are fucking fruits
It's a matter of untold societal rules and codes, if these fail, the societal model collapses to be replaced by...? Well, we won't know, since the western one will be replaced by Islam before it can naturally develop into something else
>>80057738
Dammit URSSA
>>80057783
can you really be this retarded leaf?
>>80049835
I still say the best cure for them is a .308 round through the skull
>>80057352
http://www.thetaskforce.org/static_html/downloads/reports/reports/ntds_report_on_health.pdf
Transgenders seem to suffer higher rates of depression and suicide, this is undeniable.
It seems to be a case of potential mental instability.
>But... The man wanting to be a woman can't be a woman :( so of course he'd kill himself.
Wanting to kill yourself is NOT the hallmark of a sane person.
>>80058003
Where's the argument?
>>80049835
I'm one of the "live and let live" types when it comes to this stuff, as long as you don't act theatrically indignant when people "misgender" you by accident, or demand that people inject made-up words like "zim" and "xir" into their vocabulary when referring to xou.
>>80057655
You can contribute to society in more ways than just producing offspring. Hitler had no children.
>>80057538
OP pic is not a trans woman but a drag queen. The difference is huge, as a drag queen is a part-time performer. The difference between the person in OP's pic and someone like you describe as tolerable is much larger than the difference between the person you describe acting feminine and the person who gets the surgery.
Can I request of you the favor of articulating for me why the physical (((mutilation))) offends you so dearly though?
>>80057655
>The reason the word mutilation is used is because it is. All surgery is mutilation, the second a scalpel or lazer or drill pierces the body it is considered mutilation. The difference is, there it is needed for some life threatening cause or to stop damage or get to an area that needs to be repaired.
Sadly, my main takeaway from this thread is that Americans are a bunch of dumb cunts. I'll first reiterate what I said about the definitions of words being far less important than the idea you're attempting to get across. We could call it mutilation, surgery, SRS, body modification, slice and dice, a procedure or even fuckin "pork chop" if we so desire, but it does not change what the procedure is, and so there is no reason to obsess over this. When you call it a mutilation, to me, this is poor rhetoric, as you're using loaded terms in order to try to convince someone not by the merit of your argument, but rather by the emotive association that the word makes with your audience. It won't work with people who are smart, and it is a total (((liberal))) tactic, and one that I completely reject.
That said, you're wrong even IF we choose to be autistic about definition (which I will, since this is a debate), since mutilation implies harm or damage, a surgery that is beneficial or medically necessary is by definition not mutilation.
I would ask that if you want to rise above self-induced ignorance that you look into the notion of "confirmation bias" because the logical failings in your post are too numerous for even
>>80049835
ok.. what exactly makes someone a transgender??
Is it like.. the desperate need to be the opposite sex as you associate yourself as belonging to that sex??
For example, I consider myself bi. Though I have never done anything with another guy. I know that I have felt 'chemistry' for a guy before just through hugging. Furthermore, my initial reaction to beautiful women is jealousy - is this because I'm jealous of the status & power associated with being a beautiful woman, or is it because I instinctively view them as competition? Additionally, is the fact that I enjoy talking to girls/friends' partners' about cosmetics reflective of being mentally female or is it simply curiousity as a male who has never been exposed to cosmetics? (again, I know there are straight male makeup artists n stuff).
>>80058227
cont.
someone as obsessive as myself to discuss in detail. The point there is that you are either a highly illogical person who is prone to frequent confusion and misdirection, or, perhaps more likely, you are a person whose mind was already "made up" before you learned these fun facts about trans people, and therefore confirmation bias allowed you to ignore the failings in your logic in order to reaffirm your worldview.
>>80058188
Right, like implying we aren't fucking overpopulating anyway.
>>80058020
>potential mental instability
It's almost like we haven't been conversing for hours about how these people are victims of a mental illness.
You know, I have used this site for years, but having not previously looked into it, is there an effective way to filter posts by region? I might be about done with straya.
>>80058227
>Can I request of you the favor of articulating for me why the physical (((mutilation))) offends you so dearly though?
I think the willful mutilation of one's own body for a non-medical reason could be considered the threshold at which "identity disorder" becomes "dangerous mental illness." It is presumed among psychiatrists that a truly suicidal person is not competent to make decisions for him or herself because a sane person would not pose a threat to himself or others. A transsexual who is desirous of undergoing a dangerous medical procedure for no real-life benefit could be considered similarly incompetent.
>>80057789
>If you let them think they can be bananas, then some people will go out of the wood and claim "hey I'm a fucking apple", some other will say "why hello I'm a pear"
I like to have more faith than this in my fellow man, and in fact, I believe that accepting trans people who are actually trans (as opposed to this million apple-gender ponykin bullshit) can stabilize our culture by reinforcing notions of the gender binary. It would certainly be a blow to those called "sjw."
>>80058227
>Can I request of you the favor of articulating for me why the physical (((mutilation))) offends you so dearly though?
1. It can cause people to kill themselves
2. It's irreversible
3. It costs a lot of money
4. There are alternatives, such as convincing the person he doesn't need to look a certain way just to feel a certain way
>>80058188
Yes, you can, but if said society isn't having a net population gain by its cultural constituents, then it gets outbred by competitors.
Hitler had no children, and look where Germany is now.
>>80058353
>Right, like implying we aren't fucking overpopulating anyway.
You should be well aware that overpopulation is a myth. Scarcity of resources is an artifact of the global capitalist system. If the issue is space, the world's population remains mostly clustered around metropolitan areas. But more importantly, fertility rates all over the world are universally declining. The Earth's population will peak, plateau, and slowly decline without any external intervention.
Argue for transsexual rights on the basis of personal freedom and privacy, not some pseudo-eugenic nonsense about helping to cull the species.
>>80058577
>no real-life benefit
Into the trash it goes. Read the fucking manual.
>>80056116
I ain't buying this.
In the OP:
>how can you explain the fact that psychologists have found no method that is even comparable to gender transition when it comes to alleviating suffering?
>>80056116
> So my argument will not be that surgery necessarily treats dysphoria and its symptoms, but rather that it can in many cases help these individuals and that the incidence of suicide seen can likely be accounted for by other causes.
So do you believe trans people are happier after surgery or not? First you say that it works, then you say it doesn't, but at the same time it does. What is the difference between "alleviating suffering", "treating dysphoria and its symptoms", and "helping people"? They seem to be interchangeable terms to me, yet you support some and deny others. How can surgery do any of those things if people still commit suicide at comparable rates after surgery?
Speculating about 'other causes' for post op suicide is blatantly unsupported, and I'm surprised you even typed that out.
>I don't have evidence that sex changes work because they largely are incidental rather than central to the point of my post.
Whether or not sex changes work better than other treatments IS the centerpiece of your argument. I'm not going to take your word for it that sex changes significantly make trans people happier, when another anon comes along and says suicide rates afterwards are almost the same. Your entire argument is gone if it is true that suicide rates before and after operation are similar, because your premise is that these treatments focus on what gets results, and still committing suicide is not a good result.
>>80058353
Suicide rates post op have been proven to remain steady or increase, so obviously letting them pretend to be who they want doesn't really help much. These people need mental counselling and support, not allowing them to potentially hurt themselves and immediately feel regret for something they later don't identify with.
I am, btw, not that much anti Trans. They're alright I guess, just as long as they don't push it on children and just to make it something to be proud of.
It seems you're wrong in the assertion you made in your original post:
>that is even comparable to gender transition when it comes to alleviating suffering?
>>80058110
More or less this.
If you are 6'7" and have a foot long beard, don't expect me to know that you go by She or Her. Also, I will not inject those made up, nonsense words into my vocabulary, especially not with people making up a new gender every day.
You want to be a tranny? Good on ya. But then you're choosing Male or Female. Don't give me any of that "Non-binary, squirrelkin ghost apologetic anglo mormonsexual" made up bullshit.
>>80058915
Sorry, this was meant to be in response to this>>80058468
>>80058789
>though I will hazard that most individuals replying to this thread would be uninterested in engaging in a legitimate dialogue and will instead regress to memeposting.
You sure are a fucking hypocrite
>>80058699
>stabilize our culture by reinforcing notions of the gender binary
Where the fuck have you been the past 5 years
>>80058771
>Argue for transsexual rights on the basis of personal freedom and privacy
Been basing anything to do with rights on that for this entire last 2 hours and 20 minutes.
You shouldn't take a rebuttal to a counterargument as representing the argument itself, was just attempting to point out the failing of the counterargument. In terms of overpopulation, it comes down to resources for me. We may manufacture scarcity, but frankly, I wouldn't mind more land that is desirable.
Of course that's all meaningless since the number of trannies who decide to transition vs attempting to remain cisgender would likely have very little effect on national or global population.
>>80057738
You might be underestimating peer-reviewed data. I want to know where did you get the "20%" standard.
The final stages of "gender transition" are irreversible though. Major medical procedures should only be used as a last resort (That is an international health standard).
We don't understand sexual dysphoria well enough yet. There shouldn't be any discrimination against trying other procedures that "might cure it".
I take medicine as a very serious matter & (as an economist) i care a lot about metadata.
>>80058974
Friend, I've been doing this whole debate thing for like 2.5 hours. And I haven't stopped. Forgive me if I don't respond to a low-energy post that has already been discussed multiple times in this thread. Earnest discussion is necessarily a two-way street.
>>80059156
You can't expect that every participant has been following the whole thread as you have. Your entire premise was "come with your opposing arguments, I will convince you you're wrong." If you actually made a response to that particular legitimate point I raised, you could have directed me to it. But instead you blatantly contradicted yourself by not just ignoring the argument, but LITERALLY POSTING A MEME. Stupid tranny.
>>80049835
See, the problem with transgender is the fact that it IS a disorder. Sorry bud, but Gender Dysphoria is a disorder, and it's rare. 90% of 'Transgender' people, are probably lying special snowflakes who eant attention and have no sense of pride. Because of political correctness, doctors are allowing people to poison themselves because they're "Trapped in the wrong body".
If it's NOT a disorder, then we get into the fucking gender politics. What is gender? How many genders are there? Is gender a social construct? Can people choose their gender ad they please? Is the gender your given at birth at chance or for a reason?
All those questions are bullshit. XY is male, XX is female. When every cell in your body is male, you sir, are a fucking male.
>>80058353
Its very obvious you understand gender reassignment is not a treatment for gender dysphoria. Not only that, but even with hormone treatment and gender reassignment, gender dysphoria does not go away. It does not fix the underlying cause of the problem, it is just a temporary solution at best, and a horrible expensive and painful experience on many transgenders road to suicide at worst.
You just seem to be stuck on the word mutilation. If "Body integrity identity disorder"(transability) got the same treatment transgender people were getting, you'd have no problem calling it mutilation I bet. You've lost perspective.
I liked this thread
Thank you OP
It's nice to hear a bit from outside your safe space from once in a while
>>80058915
>Suicide rates post op have been proven to remain steady or increase... These people need mental counselling and support, not allowing them to potentially hurt themselves and immediately feel regret for something they later don't identify with.
Alright, I'll just state it outright and in all caps since I've been reminded that this is the official /pol/ talking point on the subject by seeing it over and over here.
WHEN ONE TRANSITIONS THERE ARE A VARIETY OF SOCIAL CONSEQUENCES THAT CAN LEAD AN INDIVIDUAL TO SUICIDE. IF THESE CONSEQUENCES ARE THE RESULT OF SOCIAL PHENOMENA, THEN THEY DO NOT SPEAK TO A FAILURE OF THE TREATMENT TO ADDRESS THE UNDERLYING MEDICAL ISSUE, BUT RATHER TO A VARIETY OF SOCIAL ATTITUDES AND BEHAVIORS. WHAT IS MORE, TRANS INDIVIDUALS ARE ALREADY DEPRESSED PRIOR TO TRANSITION AND HAVE LIKELY CONSIDERED SUICIDE FOR MUCH OF THEIR LIVES
You can do backflips through all the logical gaps in this whole narrative that trans people get the surgery, realize they aren't happy anyway because the problem was some other shit, and kill themselves because of surgery. I do not want you to believe that I am upset with you over your post, but since we've got to that point in the thread where nobody reads the thread, I figured I'd address it a little more loudly since it keeps coming up.
>>80059036
>Failed to read anything I said
>>80059116
The "final stage" is something that only a limited number of trans people undergo, and a huge issue with the whole approach I've seen from people in this thread to the question of the efficacy of transition is the focus on surgery as the end-all-be-all. Surgery is very important to many people who identify as trans, however, think about how often the average person sees your junk. SRS has a much lower impact on the lifestyle and quality of life for most trans people than almost any other aspect of transition, including even almost all the social shit like dressing differently and styling one's hair differently.
>>80049835
You know what? Why haven't we tried hormone treatment? That is, if a male is feeling like a woman, pump him with masculine hormones. Psychology as a practice mainly asserts that our thoughts are just chemical signals. Changing the makeup of those signals could help. Instead, though, scientists would rather follow the whims of the mentally ill.
>>80049835
I have no feelings one way or another about transgender people, or anyone who does what they will with their own lives and bodies without harming others, but I do dislike the fact that we seem to be spending so much time discussing something that impacts 1 in 350 people, and so much of the discussion is about forcing other people to go along with transgendered people's fantasies.
I don't think someone should be treated like shit just because they are a .3% minority, but holy fuck, we have a lot of problems in this country and we're treating this one like it's maybe the biggest. I get the sense that even for transgendered people there are much bigger political concerns than which gender pronoun people use and which bathroom they have to use.
>>80049835
If someone believes that their arm is not really theirs and that they want to cut it off, that person would be considered mentally ill and in need of help. No doctor would encourage this dillusion or praise them for wanting to cut off their arm.
>how can you explain the fact that psychologists have found no method that is even comparable to amputation when it comes to alleviating suffering?
But when someone wants to chop off their dick, they are "brave" and are praised by everyone in the media. We are also forced to accept and encourage this dillusion or be called bigots.
>>80057738
You can't compare a study to an anecdote by calling it a collection of anecdotes. That's the same as comparing a study of sample size 1 to a study of sample size 100. Yeah, they're both studies with sample sizes, but one is much more compelling than the other. Again, I'm surprised you typed that out, that implication is so flagrantly flawed.
>>80059735
I am still contesting the post op suicide. Quoting from your OP,
> in clinical psychology, the best way to treat a patient is with what works most effectively.
Let it be that a transgendered person is at a certain risk for suicide before operation, whether it is from societal influence or chemical imbalances or from gender dysphoria. After surgery, he is at the same risk.
Pragmatically, how can you say that the treatment is effective?
The only way out of this is to say that the surgery interacts with other factors somehow to increase suicide risk, even though the 'gender dysphoria' was cured. But now you're getting into black box arguments, saying that there are complex mechanisms (gender dysphoria, social stigma, family pressure, peer pressure) at work and simply because you can detail some system that system must exist, even though the only test we've applied to the system is gender reassignment surgery, and that test has shown not to decrease suicide risk.
PRAGMATICALLY, gender reassignment surgery DOES NOT WORK, and that defies the point of your OP
>the best way to treat a patient is with what works most effectively...psychologists have found no method that is even comparable to gender transition when it comes to alleviating suffering
As I see it OP you've got no legs left to stand on
>>80059637
Dude, you can call it mutilation if you like, I'm just saying that it's poor semantic practice towards an end goal of effective communication. Call it whatever you like and I am entirely unaffected in any way.
>>80059574
Well, speaking as a student of human cognition and culture, gender IS a social construct. The fact that it's socially-constructed doesn't mean that it isn't real, either though, and the failure to understand that is what should make a degree in sociology double as a one-way train ticket for "camp."
I won't belabor you to read the thread, as I'd guess it's gotten a bit long at this point, but I'd encourage you to skim if you'd like to see some perspective that isn't gleaned from an echo chamber on either the right or the left. Point being, I've stated here a few times now that being trans is certainly a disorder, and it is just my belief that transition is the only way we know of to treat it. That whole idea of all these tumblr-genders that you can pick and choose at will was NOT devised by actual trans people, who actually wish to simply be normal (but feel very ill-at-ease with their birth sex). The people who push that tumblr shit and extreme cultural relativism are the ones who didn't pay enough attention in their social science courses but feel that it's cool to turn yourself into a subjected minority for more snowflake points, exactly as you say. It is especially women who do this, typically calling themselves "non-binary" meaning there are no real consequences for them, but they get to act "oh so special and le randum." If, however, you meet someone who is actually transgender, they probably will have or want to transition from one sex, distinctly, to the other sex, wishing as much as possible to NOT be a freak of nature.
Call it poisoning if you like, but I think you're missing the mark to focus on actual trans people instead of the co-opting of their illness for the sake of the cultural marxist agenda.
>>80049835
>the best way to treat delusions is to humor them
Yeah I'm pretty sure that's not right.
>>80049835
>http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2783583/Man-10-000-treatment-woman-wants-REVERSE-sex-change-criticises-NHS-lack-psychiatric-evaluation.html
GOOD GOOD GOY TRANNIES ARE HUMANS WHO YOU SHOULD ENCOURAGE AND EMBRACE THEYRE JUST LIKE YOU AND I EHEHEHEHE
Stupid goy
>>80059735
>An incredibly invasive & major surgery has a much lower impact on the quality of life than almost any other aspect of transition.
Now, you must admit that this is wrong. Even knee surgeries produce long term effects and complications.
Surgery is no joke & most people (Transexuals or not) seem to ignore this fact. Ci vediamo, burgeranon.
>>80058577
Well laddie, then your mom doing a nose job must mean she's a mentally deranged insane individual who's a threat to herself and should be locked up in an asylum
>>80059735
>WHEN ONE TRANSITIONS THERE ARE A VARIETY OF SOCIAL CONSEQUENCES THAT CAN LEAD AN INDIVIDUAL TO SUICIDE. IF THESE CONSEQUENCES ARE THE RESULT OF SOCIAL PHENOMENA, THEN THEY DO NOT SPEAK TO A FAILURE OF THE TREATMENT TO ADDRESS THE UNDERLYING MEDICAL ISSUE, BUT RATHER TO A VARIETY OF SOCIAL ATTITUDES AND BEHAVIORS.
Social attitudes and behaviors with respect to gender are what cause people to want to transition in the first place. If social attitudes and behaviors still drive the individual to suicide after treatment, then how on earth could you consider the treatment to be successful by any definition?
>>80049835
TL;DR
I don't care about transgender people and neither should you. Nobody should be told what they can or cannot do to their body.
Bodily autonomy 100%, any other answer is retarded.
>>80060475
>You can't compare a study to an anecdote by calling it a collection of anecdotes. That's the same as comparing a study of sample size 1 to a study of sample size 100. Yeah, they're both studies with sample sizes, but one is much more compelling than the other. Again, I'm surprised you typed that out, that implication is so flagrantly flawed.
But when did I ever offer this "sample size 1" anecdote? I've actually shared no real anecdotes at all, unless you count little Trumpisms like "I know a lot of trans people, and they..."
If I were to share anecdotes, all of these arguments would take a very different form, as my anecdotes would be very personal life stories. I wonder if it might make /pol/ feel, but that is neither here nor there. My statement was that a study is a collection of anecdotes, and I used that claim not to bolster any particular anecdote, but merely to argue that anecdotes are not really THAT bad of evidence. That said, this is a topic I could digress on, as I found that in general the sciences focus far too heavily on that which is "objective," "empirical," and quantitative. This is an opinion shared by SJWs who want to argue "muh feelings," but I think the reasoning is different. Mine is that a focus purely on objectiveness and empiricism largely precludes analysis beyond a type that frankly could be best performed by computers, and by leaning too heavily on these methods and evidences, we miss out on shit tons of valuable information. You don't have to agree with me on that, and I really haven't explained it very much or very well, but I think that you could do well to at least think on it.
>>80060475
>I am still contesting the post op suicide
If you're still contesting it, this would be a good time to bring actual figures into the work, as it does come down to a numbers game. I am too lazy and am about due to go puff on the cancerous jew for a few, but if you want to throw some figures, I'll bring the bants.
>>80054514
First off, I'm a liberal so I'm well aware that trans-people doesn't represent us or vice versa.
>my question is what issue you take with transgender people in a day-to-day kind of scenario
My issue with them is that they are deluding themselves instead of acting towards accepting the fact that they are what their biology have dictated. To support their continued delusion by playing along with their preferance of pronouns etc would be conter-effective in helping them accept reality aswell as possible psychological problems they might have as a result of their tranny mentality.
>>80049835
>tell it like it is when it comes to transgender individuals, /pol/. I may not be as red-pilled as all of you
Why did you continue typing after this
You gave it away, 0/10 , go home
>>80060712
They are like me, I'm a tranny :)
>>80060750
Don't forget ear piercings
>>80060405
The trouble is you put everything on the dick. Wanting to be a woman, socially, means much more than dicklessness, and it's willful misunderstanding to deny that.
>>80060475
Ran out of space in my last post, but I want to say a bit more on the suicide thing when I return.
>>80061067
This is where you said anecdotes are equally as important as studies.
>>80056116
Fortunately, as I do not want to commit to digging around peer-reviewed shit at the moment, I can say that there is an abundance of anecdotal evidence on the matter, which actually comprises virtually all of medical evidence to begin with.
>>80057738
Medical efficacy is entirely determined based on anecdotes is my point. A peer-reviewed study is a collection of anecdotes.
>>80059735
Pic related.
Transgenderism derives from abnormal brain function and development, inclination toward suicide and depression is often due to abnormality as well.
And at the end of the day, if the transition fails to cure the person of "suffering", then it failed and isn't the current best way to treat it. At least, that's how I see it.
For someone who seems to have recently studied in Sociology, at least you haven't bought in to their intense Marxist ways. My problem with the field and presuming that EVERYTHING or MOST THINGS derives from social formation is the simple fact that, for the most part, it's wrong. I'm currently studying in a Sociology class and we're fed some serious bullshit which I know is simply wrong.
Sociologists are, far too much, reliant on theory rather than actual evidence. It's claimed that primary and secondary socialization reinforces cultural values and essentially your identity... But this is simply wrong, according to basic biology, the very essence of our character traits overwhelmingly come from biological factors and genetics. The field is far to politicized and agenda driven, and this clouds actual truths, like the fact that gender dispositions is based on biology, not upbringing.
>>80058806
>>80061140
Hey you big American dummy, the answer is that in all of these cases the most important thing is "sometimes it works, and not always." All of that argumentation was done without the referencing of quantitative data, so I made conditional arguments assuming minimal efficacy of the surgery in the given context.
Of course, much of its success or failure in treating dysphoria IS going to come down to proper diagnosis. I figured out, after years of deliberation, that I do indeed have an otherwise incurable case of gender dysphoria. To make the suicide rates ever even be indicative of much other than "people who get sex change is sad", a ton of other data would be needed such as the method of diagnosis, time transitioned before surgery, age of diagnosis, age of death, family history, medications, etc. etc.
>>80061252
I choked up some of the pill when I realized I'm definitely trans and a lot of you cunts told me that I was crazy for thinking so in the past.
>>80060750
>a nose job must mean she's a mentally deranged insane individual
>>80061314
>Don't forget ear piercings
Just because everyones insane doesn't mean the things they do are sane.
If you really think putting holes in your body, or having your basic human shape modified to reach unnatural standards isn't mutilation, then you haven't been watching the world around you, and the results of those things on aged individuals with those lifestyles that contain those things.
Trannies are just gross and unstable.
Imagine if there was a job people did where like 40% percent of people killed themselves after a few years. There'd be some kind of legislation for it.
But for people who are insane and change their gender, even though a ton of them fucking kill themselves, everyone is trying to say it's a good thing.
>>80061447
If you missed the point that medical studies are literally collections of anecdotes, then you should go find a nice twitter thread to post in.
>>80061685
>Sociology
Dear heavens, no, I took one sociology course in college and had to drop it because my professor was such a coalburning hyperlib. I take sociology largely to be the enemy of properly conducted social science, and I'm glad that you see it in a similar light.
>>80061795
Please make a compelling argument AGAINST ear-piercing for me.
Honestly we should just let people do what they want as long as it doesn't physically hurt anyone else. You want to say you're a woman in a man's body? Whatever. Just keep paying your taxes, we'll use a higher rate on you to create gender neutral bathrooms, and problem solved. Don't go touching any kids in a funny way, and it's all good.
>>80062353
>touching kids
I think you should be most concerned old cis men in men's bathrooms desu unfortunately
>>80062134
Children getting their ears pierced without their permission and before they've developed agency.
Gagefags.
The unnecessary additional burden on our medical infrastructure from piercing infections.
The added weight on the ear structure probably being unhealthy, and definitely altering the structure of the ear into advanced aging.
>>80062418
I'm concerned with them too. Honestly we need family bathrooms where kids can either go by themselves or with a trusted adult.
>>80062010
Answer my suggestion, faggot. The problem with trans treatment is that we're encouraging a mental disorder. Furthermore, statistics show that these treatments aren't effective in preventing suicide. Chalk it up to social issues all you want, but you can't quantifiably prove that treatments are effective. Therefore we should look into other methods of treatment instead of pretending like transitions have solved the problem. My original proposal that you failed to answer because it makes sense would be an interesting long of research to follow that might yield results.
>>80049835
If the only justification is to "alleviate suffering", then the practice is worse than I thought. I thought there was at least a biological reason for it. If it's merely to "alleviate suffering", then you might as well put the person on therapy and medication, not cut their fucking genitals off.
>>80049835
>>80050658
OP, if i believe i'm an helicopter, making me believe i am is NOT treatment.
>>80049835
>the best way to treat a patient is with what works most effectively. If transgender individuals really suffer from a "delusion of assumption," how can you explain the fact that psychologists have found no method that is even comparable to gender transition when it comes to alleviating suffering?
Because any efforts to research alternative therapies are immediately dubbed as homotranswhateverphobic and torpedoed along with the careers of the researchers. Consequently most researchers won't even discuss the idea of looking for alternative treatments.
There may be better alternatives, there may not, but no scientific field, even one as soft as psychology, should ever be afraid of asking the question.
I see a LOT of parallels between the ADHD craze of the 90s, the Autism craze of the 00s, and the transgender craze now - a legitimate condition (in this case gender dysphoria) 'goes viral' in the media and the public sphere and suddenly everyone and their fucking mother is convinced that their kid has ADHD/Autism/GD and doctors/psychiatrists immediately start overdiagnosing the fuck out of people and recommending the first available treatment. This is extremely dangerous when you're dealing with kids and teenagers, you risk labeling them for years based on what may turn out to be a temporary problem or phase, and you risk causing serious health problems by putting them on a major drug regime when they're at a critical stage of mental and physical development.
>>80063447
As someone who was wrongly diagnosed with ADHD disorder as a schoolkid I find these parallels very disturbing. I was a bit of a spaz in Middle School and had a hard time paying attention in school. My parents first instinct was that I just needed some discipline and some help studying, but as soon as the school's guidance counselor threw out the "ADHD" label it was all fucking over. They got swept up in the hysteria and I spent the next three years on drugs. First Ritalin, then later Straterra. The pills gave me frequent headaches and nausea and I was miserable and possible even genuinely Depressed by time Sophomore year came around. I stopped taking my medication secretly and within weeks I felt better and my schoolwork hadn't suffered at all. My parents didn't push me to go back on the drugs and I've been better for it ever since, but it worries me to think about how much long term damage was done, especially now that I start suffering from migraines.
My point is - that the ritalin-pushers of the 90s have become the transition therapy-pushers of today. They're recommending HRT for kids in their tweens now. What happens to those kids if they get to 15-16 years old and realize they were just going through a phase? They've been on a massive hormone regime during the critical years of puberty and they're basically fucked for life.
>>80054062
the word you re searching for is amputation.
>>80049835
I am a strong believer that the red-pill (while containing many "right wing" ideals such as closed borders, cultural unity, a strong military and national presence on the world stage etc...) doesn't inherently lie in the right wing hemisphere of political thought, but rather a bit more to the center with an openness for the occasional liberal thought that makes sense, and "liberal thoughts" on transgender issues happens to be one of them.
As a fellow major in neurpsychology, I can tell you that transgender people honestly don't need to be gassed and should not be "gassed". Transgender people as individuals are perfectly capable of being loyal citizens who will join the military, pay their taxes and at least be (potentially) convinced to uphold the national identity and defend it like anybody else.
Transgender people as a group however, have had a concerning amount of "infection" by the SJW ideology and have fallen for their pandering most likely out of desperation for being accepted somewhere.
Little do they know that SJW pandering is only bait they set up to draw individuals into their circles, so they can start filling them up with all the bullshit they spew and all the glorification and/or treatment they feel entitled to receive (see here for an example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Usm7Q_4Xc7s).
Since transgender people are a small, but loud demographic circa 2016 that can use its oppression it actually faces as a means to justifying SJW ideals (i.e. i am oppressed as a transgender because we live in a straight cis white male dominated patriarchy that wishes to crush diversity and women), the SJW that are beginning to draw in the trannies in 2016 have won a large political tool indeed.
It is this i have a problem with, and I will even stand by other transgender people (much like how some polacks stand by gays like Milo when it comes to facing SJWs and Islam) in order to defeat it until its nothing more than a footnote in a history book.
>>80062599
Those are simply not arguments.
>>80062759
Ayy, you don't have to get so rude about it. The fact is that "suicide before surgery" and "suicide after surgery" is just a very poor method of gauging the efficacy of the procedure, as the phenomenon is surely very fuckin complicated. I'm definitely not opposed to more research, and once I'm dead I'll gladly give my brain to some doctors to slice up and play around with. In the meantime, however, I know that going on with life as a man feels like playing pretend, and it always has. For years, once I was old enough to understand gender and that I did not feel like a man, I simply operated under the notion that I'm a girl who is going to pretend to be a man. And it worked alright. I learned a lot about fitting in as a man, and I got to the point where I was almost convinced that I was a man. It didn't last, however, and I quickly realized again that I am a trans individual. Like most trans people say, I felt that way from the time I was a tiny child. The understanding that I have of myself today as trans is something that I sort of grasped at a much younger age, but for me to reach the point I am at now took serious amounts of introspection and multiple attempts at "rehabilitation." Aside from the fact that nobody else seems to succeed much at it, I know that my attempts to affirm my birth sex as the proper one ultimately failed, even when I wholeheartedly bought into notions that being trans is a disorder of assumption. Trying to reform with ideology, cognitive-behavioral therapy, alternative psychology, and even the occasional psychedelic did NOT alleviate the underlying suffering caused by simply not feeling right in a male body and gender. I spent years in denial and years "reformed" before it all came back. I realize that anecdotal evidence is upsetting to many here, but my own personal history affirms plenty for me that transitioning is the way to be happy. I'm successful, attractive, and basically happy
>>80062759
>>80063999
cont.
with every aspect of my life and myself aside from my gender, and so whether treatments succeed at making people happy in every case is irrelevant to my own life, which I know is improved by living as my desired gender. If a bunch of trannies are crazy cunts who kill themselves, I wonder how much we can really put the blame entirely on their treatment or lack thereof. I know plenty from my own life to realize that transition can lead to a better quality of life for transgender individuals, and this is in spite of thinking that most of the trannies I met are really pathetic individuals. It's quite possible that there are many individuals who think transition is right for them when it is not, but I refuse to allow the notion that it's patently wrong for transgender individuals to go unchallenged.
>>80063463
It is not doubt that big pharma already sees the profit in absurdly expensive gender transition methods and (much like other industries that have become less taboo such as marijuana) will likely heavily capitalize on them at the physical and monetary expense of the customer.
>>80049835
Be Trans if you are.
My take, first off your riding on the tales of the LGBT movement.
L&G=homegrown as nature and history is replete with examples.
B= Examples in nature still.
T= none unless your talking about hermaphrodites, which I place in it's own category as is dose happen in nature.
People made the argument that by excepting gays would lead to having to except all types of madness becoming acceptable. IE= Pedo acceptance, bestiality. They have been proven correct.
Explaining Psychologists is like explaining why your friend cheats off of your test. Psychology can be used for interrogation which can enlighten. Beyond that it is junk science that lines pockets of the insecure practitioner.
My suspicion is more with our food intake. From hormones being forced into the food supply as well as antibiotics. Coupled with the idea that effeminate men don't contribute to being male when in fact your in the same boat.
The feminist movement is just a feminist empowerment movement, that is like a drug like National Socialism. In reality Women Have the ultimate power of life or death of a Nation & always have and are resented to an extent by young males rather acceptably I might add. Men are disposable we will always die for convictions, nationalism, family, ect. Even Trans and Gay, & only enlighten women which I still believe are the majority understand that.
That being said there there is no short supply of groups as well as individuals that want to see United States brought to it's knees. They will find all vehicles & methods to do so and if you are a wedge issue. Then your cause will be hijacked simple as that. My only question is how patriotic are you if your going to be in a position in the military. As I see that as the end game for dis-unifying this country's protection means.
>>80063978
To me, the red pill is about logical ideas. Much of the SJW playbook is a wholesale rejection of logic or simply an ignorance of it, but I absolutely feel (and have personally felt) that the hardline attitude taken by individuals like those on /pol/ actually serves the undesired effect of pushing away, polarizing, and dare I say radicalizing those very people who could work together against social degeneracy. To act like high suicide rates in trannies indicates that the treatment is an utter failure is to ignore the accounts of all of the trans individuals who have achieved a better life as a result of transition. And the cost to society seems to me to be quite low, as long as you separate actual transgenderism from postpostmodern gender-relativist bullshit.
>>80063113
What the fuck is a "biological reason" that doesn't alleviate suffering? That is literally the purpose of medicine.
>>80063999
The problem is OP that you have to admit the way this issue is being viewed on a political scale is affecting scientists' efficacy at solving the problem. You may not see it as a mental disorder yourself, but it is the best way to approach this issue to find an answer. What I proposed has simply not been tried because we've been going along with what the patient wants rather than what is good for the patient, which is a foolhardy medical practice. If male hormones could make you feel less like a woman and more like a man because of the change in your physiological and psychological makeup, what's wrong with it? Trying such a method might curb suicides. Transitioning to a body type that was not your original is more severe, harsher on your body, and generally bad on many levels for you. The fact that the "answer" being portrayed by media and the left is transitioning hurts the scientific process and ultimately damages the lives of transgenders around the world. Advocacy to change society when there is something wrong with transgenders is a huge misconception.
>>80064377
Is there a part in the human brain that is responsible for the identification with the gender
or is the identification complete based on thinking?
Because certain problems while pragmation can cause that the child have xx chromosomes but the male genital.
But they still dont feel like they are in the wrong body, they dont even know they have xx chromosomes but are a man.
If there is no part in the human brain that is hardcoded to identify as a certain gender, the whole gender dysphoria is just imagination and a mental illness.
>>80064996
Yes, but there are different fields of medicine. You wouldn't give someone anti-psychotics for appendicitis. And you shouldn't perform surgery for a mental disorder.
>>80065871
This, like I said, just because the patient wants it doesn't make it the best option.
>>80049835
just what that freak needs
>>80065871
how can you doubt lobotomy isnt the optimal treatment for mental deseases?!
>>80065339
I do see it as a mental disorder, why is it such a bad thing to treat my mental disorder in this fashion? Sure, I don't like how it's being massively politicized, but desu it seems like conservatives are mostly concerned with where I piss. I am sort of running out of the patience to keep discussing this and kind of posting the same thing over and over again, but I will continue at it for a bit longer. What is it you are so concerned about with trans individuals? That they could receive better medical treatments to make them feel well, and that they aren't getting the best medicine?
If this is because you are truly concerned with the plight of trans individuals, it seems to me like you would be more concerned with their social treatment as well, since that is much of what causes their extreme depression desu. I think at this point that these dreams of a better cure might just be wishful thinking, and the likely cause for this thinking is simply a desire to see transgender people be discredited.
>>80065517
>Is there a part in the human brain that is responsible for the identification with the gender
>or is the identification complete based on thinking?
This is one of the Big Questions. It seems that the origin of gender dysphoria is likely a combination of cognitive/biological factors and social ones. It's hard for me to believe that too much of it comes from socialization or mental trauma, however, as I have been cross-dressing since before I even began school.
>>80065871
>>80066043
>>80066261
I am this freak, I have gender dysphoria, I once let /pol/ comfort me with false truths, and it has been my personal reality that while I was deceiving myself on a superficial level, I knew all along that I was not like the other boys. Seems like I never will be, and I'm far from convinced that getting a "sex change" is the worst thing to do. Aside from the focus being in the wrong place (SRS instead of social and hormonal transition), I am convinced that many of the people on this board simply do not care about trans people and hope for a "better" cure because they would like to see us go away. Personally, I feel that I made a pretty good thread, and I hope that I have informed or given insight to some of you and that perhaps you do not think too poorly of me despite my gender condition.
>40% of schizos attempt suicide
>40% of trannies attempt suicide
>1 in 4 trannies are diagnosed with schizophrenia
>>80067391
hurrrrr are you saying it's a mental disorder?! That's like great for being a very basic fucking claim, but did you want to go anywhere with it, or in your simplistic mind is it enough to say "u r mentally ill, SJW loses again"?
Anyway, I hope that you all enjoyed my thread, as I will be making more to come
>>80067588
No, I'm saying that trannies are schizos that need medication not their dicks lopped off.
>>80049835
If someone has bulemia, giving them liposuction is much faster and less effort than convincing them they're not fat. The road to recovery from emotional imbalance is indeed long, rocky and uphill, but it's an excellent example of the dangers of choosing the short and easy path to a type of transient, shallow happiness that can be shattered with a wrong pronoun.
ps, if you really believed gender is a social construct, AND you believed in tolerance and open-mindedness, why can't you accept that there are some societies that have constructed gender in a way that the innate, transcendent core of what it means to be a woman is more profound than a prescription to treat males with gender dysphoria?
...But that's none of my business.
>>80066358
Even if it is a solution, it isn't a cure, and won't prevent/mitigate future cases.
>>80066564
Its not so much being concerned about where you piss really. Its more about your local SJW standing up and saying "Ok everyone since zir here is sort of uncomfortable going into the mens room in drag, we're going to let him into the girls room" and everyone else saying that kind of makes them uncomfortable and being told that the 3%'s feelings are more important then the 97%'s.
If you could have taken a pill as a child and not had to pretend you were male, would you?
If that treatment was discovered tomorrow, would you take it, or would you now want to ignore it and stay female to not have to go through the process backwards?
>>80066564
In concerned that the problem is not being taken care of efficiently. And yes, I believe that transgenders could be receiving better treatment that could make them feel well and that due to liberals pushing for acceptance we are merely accepting the problem and not making it go away. You can't deny that currently there is a social stigma against any scientist who would work to find a cure for transgenders. Many liberals think it's offensive to even consider that they need a cure. Anyone going against the common norm of transitioning and proposing other therapies really is labeled as intolerant. I think liberals are stifling scientific research in this way.
>>80067956
>why can't you accept that there are some societies that...
Why are you asking me about acceptance and why am I supposed to care about "other societies"? This isn't a theoretical issue that's going to be solved with a shit eating grin, and you look stupid for thinking a "gotcha" post has any meaning to an actual trans person.
>>80067990
What do you mean by this silly pill hypothetical? You mean a pill that would keep me male but make me happy with it?
>>80066564
As for social treatment, I see transgenders as human beings and will treat them respectfully. However, I also see legitimate concerns from people concerning where you piss as well as how you act in public. Propriety is necessary everywhere, and in many cases I have seen transgenders who are acting impolite and crude get freebies because people are afraid of discriminating in the workplace or in public. Further, the concern of where you piss boils down to false claims. Sexually, most men like women, and many men don't do it correctly especially in this day and age of rising fetishes. Thus, the concern is less about real transgenders and more about men claiming to be women to go in the ladies' restrooms. Instances like this have already occurred but are rarely reported by mainstream media. You can't fairly delineate it.
>>80068781
I'll agree with all of that except the idea that there are better treatment options. Hormones are very effective as long as a proper diagnosis can be made. I won't be so bold as to say that there are no possible better treatments, but it is my belief that if there are any, they'd be many decades or even centuries out at the least. Most any mental condition we treat we do not actually remove the underlying problem, but rather treat the symptoms. Take bipolar disorder: we can not figure out how to "cure" it, but we can treat it, meaning we use chemical cocktails to manipulate the emotional response and make it more typical. To do this with something as complex, personal, subjective, and semiotic as gender is vastly more difficult.
>>80069030
>I don't hate all people like you, I hate people like you who act shitty
Awww, thanks anon
>>80068900
Yes, a pill that would cure gender dysphoria.
Would you go back in time if you could and give it to your younger self when you were pretending to be male and never have to go through hormone treatment/gender reassignment?
Would you take it as an adult now, considering your gender reassignment surgery, and that you'd go through it in reverse?
Would you take it now, and because it solves gender dysphoria, and even though its changed you to a male psyche, you'd stay in your transitioned form?
>>80067275
If gender dysphoria is caused by organic issues
there could also be a gender dysphoria that is complete based on mental problems and one that is a hybrid of both.
>>80050658
>comes to /pol/ for a good debate
Do you also lick your bathroom floor when you want something greasy for dinner?
>>80067990
To try to answer this, if there were a pill that made me totally female instead of the hybridized nu-female I am becoming, I would take that in a moment. However, if what you're asking is whether I would take a pill that would make me completely ok with my male form, that's actually a difficult question for me. I'm happy with everything in my life aside from my gender, so I suppose with that pill I'd have quite a great life. However, I feel like the real me is not male, and I would remember those feelings. A pill that makes me feel okay with being male would then feel almost like killing a part of myself. If it makes me happy, that's great, but it would do so in the same way as a lobotomy.
A lot of trans people struggle with thinking that their fixation with being the other gender is some weird sexual kink. This often takes people years to get through and realize there's more to it. For me, something that hit home was thinking on the idea: if I died before transitioning, everyone would remember the "boy" who died, and nobody would ever know the truth about me. That was hard to deal with. I even wrote a note that I hid in case I died unexpectedly that stated who I feel like on the inside and that I would like that name printed on my headstone.
I've also completely gotten over the drug-abuse issues that I would use to numb myself from the pain of not feeling like myself, so that's nice :)
>>80069664
All I'm saying is the liberal mindset of PC has to stop. It is hurting y'all on so many levels. I've dealt with transgenders before and I'm OK with them to an extent (I really have a natural distaste though- not my preferred company). As for treatment, you might have some bias because you think the transition worked for you. Think about the others who didn't get such a good experience. The "it's hopeless, we're centuries out from a cure" attitude won't get you anywhere. What we really have to do is get people to admit that there really is a problem and that it isn't merely attributed to social stigmas. The only way to gauge if we can find a cure is to start looking for one.
>>80070287
I'm guessing in all cases it's a mixture of these factors. The notion that you can clearly delineate is simply too neat for something that will always be dependent on subjectivities.
>>80070355
I don't know where else you'd go for debate. On this topic it's not even easy to find a site where anyone says anything besides "awww, ur beautiful hun <3"
>>80070013
I sort of answered this before seeing your clarifying reply, and I have to say that a fantastic hypothetical like that is probably just too hard to answer. Of course, you're assuming that I've undergone much in the way of physical transition. I am merely beginning down this path. It would be very easy for me to remain fully boymode in appearance. But it would feel like a type of suicide. If I can put it in perspective, thinking about it is like a deal with the devil kind of "would you trade your soul for a lifetime of happiness?" sort of thing.
>>80049835
The biggest problem is the claim that we should treat the body because we haven't found a treatment for the mind, BUT people will throw a shit fit if you actually try to research a cure to the mental issue.
So which is it? You're treating the body because you CAN'T treat the mind, or you're treating the body because you don't WANT to treat the mind?
>>80070828
Bitches are treating my body because I have freedom, motherfucker. At least in some very specific contexts like this one.
>>80070474
I think that tons of failed trannies are like 6'4'' and fat, and then they're pissed when nobody thinks they're pretty. Fortunately I'm short and slender, and people already think I have a lovely androgynous appearance. Actually, it's surprising to me how much gender dysphoria seems to occur in spite of physical appearance, because aside from never feeling like "one of the boys," I've always seemed pretty effeminate in appearance as well. It seems you acknowledge at least that /pol/ needs to move on from the whole gassing trannies thing though, and I like that. Because acceptance is a first step towards desiring treatment, in some light. Acceptance of what kind though? It is an interesting question. I personally have a lot of respect for any trans person simply because I understand their struggle, and even if I don't particularly like the person, I feel that suffering as they have entitles a person to some dignity.
>>80071386
> It seems you acknowledge at least that /pol/ needs to move on from the whole gassing trannies thing though.
Just like that you've made me think that's probably the best answer :D
>>80071386
Your comment did not make much sense to me. Care to clarify?
>>80071986
You mean gassing is?
>>80072082
You'll have to clarify for me what you need clarification on, or perhaps search more of the thread if I've possibly already answered it.
lol tl;dr
>>80072311
The whole comment. What acceptance. Acceptance that a different treatment would work better?
>>80072311
Yes I mean gassing. Mainly because I don't want you to get to full of your own bs. Keep shit real find a answer just don't be a sjw for the love of god.
>>80072311
In fact if you kill, confuse, degrade them I'll pay for an extra set of boobs for ya. Two in the back for dancing.
>>80049835
Why most of them enjoy a game they call "exposing"? They usually get killed because of that. What's this obsession they have with telling every fucking one that some straight guy showed interest in them?
>>80072493
I mean acceptance of the fact that trans people actually exist and that gender dysphoria is real. Acceptance taken further is acceptance of the idea that these people deserve treatment, of one form or another, rather than suffering, disdain, euthanasia, etc. I don't even know yet whether transition will be a total success for me, but I'm a plenty strong individual to know that it's a choice I've made, I'll deal with the consequences regardless, and it's better than the alternative of pretending to live a life that I feel isn't mine.
I guess I'll stay tuned into /pol/ for first word of that wondercure when it comes along, but in the meantime I really do hope for greater acceptance of trans individuals. Honestly, I'd be totally on-board with /pol/, but its attitude towards trannies has tempted me at times to say fuck it and become a radical libtard. And that's coming from someone who really is irritated with radical libtards.
I had a career in politics in the works, and it's funny, because I'm definitely putting it on hold for a bit, but someday I might be quite the meme candidate, running openly as a tranny. I don't want to be a fuckin SJW, but shit is so polarized these days, you know what I mean? Conservatives irl are going to get 10x worse to me as my transition continues, and I'll probably have no choose but to be a flaming fuckin lib
>>80072922
>full of your own bs
Nah, I'm lucky to have a good body for transition. Fuck off joking about gassing me desu though senpai, pretty rude.
>>80049835
psychiatrists aren't interested in curing anything, and trannies have MORE mental problems after transitioning, they are setting up future business for themself. Transitioning does not make trannies "happier" and if it does it's irrelevant because happiness is not synonymous with mental health
>>80051718
Not him, but the media is actively pushing trannies as if they're okay to be.
It's trendy to be a tranny.
What could have been a strong male PR a beautiful woman is now an abomination of a human a la Bruce Jenner.
And the left celebrates this cuz "theys wuz brave n shiet"
>>80074404
Don't act like it isn't brave. Being a trans woman is one of the most dangerous ways to exist in society.
>>80049835
>wall of text
im sorry - what was it in that entire tirade that made you an expert or authority to speak on the matter?
>nothing
b-but i am interested in srs d-b8 4 realz
>no citations provided
kindly fuck off you special snowflake
>>80074646
No, being a muslim woman in Afghanistan is one of the most dangerous ways to exist in society.
Just because everyone looks at you and thinks you're a freak doesn't make society any more dangerous, it makes the retarded actions you've taken have consequences.
Fuck you mentally ill wastes of skin, the second this political system falls is the second baseless mental ungainliness is destroyed due to necessity in need for survival. One day you will be embarrassed to admit that you even considered such ridiculous thoughts as "I feel as if I am a girl even though my entire body and chemistry says I'm a boy."
>>80073553
>Fuck off joking about gassing me desu though senpai, pretty rude.
There is the crux of the matter isn't it.
1. It's anonymous that last bastion of honest discussion. Where people can blurt out shit without repercussion.
2. In practice of reality no one can be honest and it's leading to the eroding of the 1st amendment.
3. However noble the cause it is only going to undermine authority which in the military will be disastrous.
4. Lets face it you have no quams about saying the exact same shit about white males or males in general. If you don't then others most certainly are.
5. Go ahead say some edgy shit feels good man. Kek be praised.
Transexuality is a type of schizophrenia and can be treated with the same medicines. It's no more correct to call a woman who believes themselves to be a man "he" than it is to acknowledge and support the radical world view and paranoid theories of a schizophrenic.
If you were "born male" but think you are a woman, you are not. Period. However, anyone should have the right to do anything in their home or anything inconsequential to society. So sure, dress like a girl in your home if you wish, but don't raise children or expect anyone to engage in your utter delusion.
Accepting this delusion has already taken the applied logic one step further with people starting to identify as different ages and races.
>>80076791
>4. Lets face it you have no quams about saying the exact same shit about white males or males in general. If you don't then others most certainly are.
I lol'd.
I don't talk about gassing anyone because I'm not a degenerate shit. Even retards are fine as long as they don't breed (and they won't). I froze my sperm though, hopefully myself and my future wife will make beautiful cis babies that get my otherwise perfect genes. How degenerate is this?
>>80058955
I just saw this post.
This is based. Thank you, Serbia.
>Non-binary, squirrelkin ghost apologetic anglo mormonsexual
>>80077871
>I'm not a degenerate shit.
kek at least you have a seance of humor. You're one of the good ones. :D
Just because there frozen how can you know there the "good ones" and I thought they changed the name already from cis to xe I can't bother to keep up. Mother nature is the best and only honest eugenicist.
>>80078767
>name change
Trans people who aren't brainwashed agents of Zion will pretty readily stick to either male or female. These people may not be the people you want to hang out with when you meet them, but they can be trusted a lot further than anyone who is "non-binary," "third gender," or any of the new-age bullshit
>>80058069
The second post was directed to you but because i was in /v/ at the moment i forgot what i quoted
>>80079146
That I can believe. The problem comes at face to face ground level. You can chat have repore with all that jazz. But the ideology and ones unawareness of the issue that they can be manipulated in such a manner is what I want to see a homegrown honest trans movement be vigil against. By being represented by the conglomerate sjw movement I fear you'll be forever tarnished.
>>80052167
Doesn't change the fact he is right.... they have the same suicide rate post op and after transition as they do pre op and pretransition. Enabling thier delusion isn't helping.....
>>80049835
Speaking to the m-t-f trannies because let's face it 99% of trannies are m-t-f.
I don't care if you want to wear women's clothes and act effeminate. You're also free to talk about it, get married (finally), have children, etc. You're free to do those things and I'd fight to protect those rights.
But that doesn't make you female. It will never make you female. You'll be male till you die. You want to push the absolute boundry of being gay and girly? Go for it. But that's what you are, gay and effete. Not female.
You want people to stop being pissed off at you? Stop insisting you are female. Don't act like every day is Gay Pride day. Don't try sign up for female only sports leagues, those were set up so our physically inferior gender has a place for robust competition. Don't try to trick people into sex (assuming you can pull that off) without letting them know you're actually male who is into crossdressing.
Don't do those things and you've dealt with most of the things that piss most people off about trans.
The real problem is that many trans are doing it for attention. Being trans, or some made up gender identity, is the in thing for attention-seeking right now. These sort of individuals intentionally seek conflict so they can wallow in attention, which is usually negative. This can cause depression which can then lead to suicide. Sad to report that society has not yet discovered a cure for attention whoring. In the future it will switch to something completely new, just like it switched away from punk, emo, and other attention-seeking fads of the past.
>>80053546
Stop being autistic...... a female can reproduce, men cannot.
