How can you be an Atheist and not a Nihilist?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1mSTqfNiBc
>>80012009
Nihilists existing is a contradiction. Nihilists are living contradictions.
>>80012009
athiesm = fedoras
Nihlism = enlightened with reality.
basically atheist who dont identify as nihilist are pussy fags that yearn for meaning in their pathetic existence.
ITT: people who don't know what nihilism is
>>80012009
Nothing matters so kill yourself
>>80012227
you clearly dont understand nihilism.
active nor passive
>fucking leaf
>>80012317
>athiesm = fedoras
>Nihlism = enlightened with reality.
watch out guys, we have a supreme gentleman with us
>>80012009
You really can't. That's why WLC is so based.
>>80012468
the author of that comic doesn't know what nihilism is either
How can you be a nihilist and not an absurdist?
>>80012009
Well it's quite easy actually
Im an atheist so I'll explain.
Atheism is the lack of belief in deities as you know, Nihilism is the belief that life is meaningless and or worthless.
Often associated with sadness and discontent with life.
You can choose this attitude but you can also go this way; that you ONLY have one life and so you better make it count. there are lots of cool things you can do and see and so you should make it count. Life is too short to worry about stupid shit, have fun while you're alive.
etc
Some Nihilists are very happy because they accept this idea that nothing truly matters in the grand scheme of things and so they also make the most out of things and as the faggots say, yolo.
>>80012344
This is a gross misinterpretation of Nihilism.
>>80012801
Target identified
>>80012009
I prefer Ray Comfort
>>80012514
keep me posted
>>80012723
>You can choose this attitude but you can also go this way; that you ONLY have one life and so you better make it count. there are lots of cool things you can do and see and so you should make it count. Life is too short to worry about stupid shit, have fun while you're alive.
And how will that matter after you are dead?
>>80012689
your canadian. why haven't you killed Your-self?
>>80013130
Life here is actually pretty good. The /pol/ memes are just /pol/ memes.
Regardless, nihilism is for edgy teenagers on the Internet.
>>80012723
Not that easily reddit
See with atheism you can have your subjective value but nihlism say objectively that atheism means the world is without value
But the problem with atheists besides being retarded and emotional wrecks is that they spend their precious life wasted debating Christians when if atheism is true nothing matters we are all going to decay into the soil and the world will go on for billions of years
>>80013205
Atheism is for edgy teenagers that didn't grow up.
>>80013205
Nihlism is the logical conclusion of atheism
you are just too emotional to accept it
>>80013112
Why are you thinking about death? Death is not a part of life. What comes after is irrelevant to your present experience.
I would say that the processes that lead one person in this day and age to atheism most of the times would actually lead to nihilism if consistently applied all the way through, so you would be right in this. But at the same time, once you pass your nihilist phase you don't necessarily jump back where you came from and re-embrace theism, you are most likely going to go off into another direction completely, direction which might lead you away from nihilism but also from theism.
>>80013239
thanks straya
>>80013239
>if atheism is true nothing matters
This is where you go wrong.
Without the promise of a life after death, what happens in life matters even more.
>>80012009
>Reasonable
>Faith
Dude what?
>>80013548
How so? Again your inflating your subjective valuation of life
>>80013112
That's the whole point
if you have this nihilistic attitude and you are an atheist, that's just it
It doesnt matter at all AFTER you die.
That's not the point.
It highlights that the life you have is important and the only one you have.
I like to think the most logical 'afterlife'
is basically an eternal sleep state but dreamless.
So nothing. You don't know or realize anything and you cease consciousness.
>>80013615
> 4chan
Dude what?
>>80013615
>1,000 variations of pascal's wager
>wow craig an intellectual luminary
>>80012009
Nihilism completely throws beliefs, morals and values out the window while also denouncing all Religions, (including Atheism.) Not only that, but Nihilists have also accepted the fact that our lives (including the human race,) are insignificant in the grander scheme of the universe, meaning that what we accomplish on Earth has next to zero affect on the rest of the universe.
>>80012227
It feels pretty good to be a walking contradiction then.
>>80013548
This.
I am sincerely surprised by how theists do not understand this. Another amusing thing is how theists believe they are foreced to commit to altruism if not they will perish for eternity.
>>80013618
straya
>>80013548
This anon has it,
Life being meaningless and pure chance, not some cosmic plan doesnt mean you should just sit and mope until you die. You're free to if you wish, but it highlights how important life is, because you only have one.
Make the most out of it, don't waste it, once you die, that is the end, so fuck it, do what you want, within reason,
>>80012009
>Implying you can't be both
>>80013653
>So nothing. You don't know or realize anything and you cease consciousness.
But then, what's the point? You could just kill yourself today and have the same...worth (?) as if you'd lived to be 100 and had a warm, happy life.
If you'll be dead and will have no recollection or existence after you die, why even bother living?
>>80013917
Ah beta socialist eurocuck at it again
it seems you have no reponse
>>80013615
Take philosophy 101 and then come back ready to have grown-up conversations. Since you're almost certainly under 18 you definitely still have time.
>>80013871
>but Nihilists have also accepted the fact that our lives (including the human race,) are insignificant in the grander scheme of the universe, meaning that what we accomplish on Earth has next to zero affect on the rest of the universe.
What do you gain from accepting this?
>>80014035
incoming bare assertions, memes, dismissals and ad hom attacks against dr craig
>>80013990
If you have a terrible life and nothing good EVER happens then sure, kil yourself, end the pain. But for the majority of people, why would you just off yourself?
Is living and seeing the world not fun, is hanging out with friends, playing video games, shooting guns, exploring, driving around, not fun?
Are they not something you want to do for the sake of doing them?
Do it for the now, not for the possiblity that you'll remember in the afterlife.
Live life because life is worth living to see everything it has to offer.
Atheism is the non-belief in a deity or higher power
Nihilism is the belief that human life/existence is meaningless.
One is an objective claim: there is not a supernatural god
The other is a subjective claim: life is meaningless (an entirely human concept)
How are they fundamentally linked?
How does the supernatural not existing remove meaning from life?
What am I missing here, OP?
>>80013277
>>80013277
>Ausfailian and burgerfag edgy nihilists calling anybody else edgy
This is too funny.
>>80013871
So you feel good being a piece of shit that has no purpose?
>>80013990
Why bother dying if you are having fun right now? The whole point of enjoying anything is that it is a pleasant experience while you are living it. It is better than nothing and the nothing is coming sooner or later either way, so there is no need to rush to not existing if you can exist and have a blast.
>>80014035
If that was the case why don´t you give a reasonable argument?
Please, illuminate me with your unflawed reasonable faith.
>>80014024
Not a socialist
I voted leave
Anti-EU
not beta male
MGTOW
cmon man, cant you sstop shitposting for once
>>80013205
Pretty sure the philosophical framework of rejection of all value based "meanings" in life is a bit more complicated than just an "le edgy fedora kids" meme that is only used because people don't have the intellectual capacity to actual dissect value judgments and what a meaning in life, or lack thereof, would actually imply
>>80014133
Literally nothing. But that's just Nihilism logic.
You can believe there is no god and no heaven and no hell, but still want to be a good person who lives their life in the most ethical and meaningful way they can
Is it just me or does anyone else notice the consistent theme of arguments against God also being arguments that apply 1:1 against Government? How many Atheists are also self-described Anarchists?
>>80014260
So basically...
>muh feels
I mean that's fine, but most atheists/nihilists like to pose as creatures of pure rationality. Doing something just for the sake of *doing it*, not even for the sake of *remembering* it later, doesn't seem very rational.
>>80014336
I wouldn't say I'm proud of it, but it's more or less I've just accepted my fate knowing that no one will remember my name 100 years from now.
>>80014516
Am atheist
am anti-anarchy
don't make dumb strawmen
>>80014538
How is doing something because it's enjoyable not rational? Do I have to explain the concept of the chemical dopamine?
Is it not rational, if you have a limited amount of time left, to make the most of it?
>>80014487
Trying to find meaning in a meaningless universe is simply absurd.
Why do billions of humans struggle to find meaning in life but are completely unable to do so?
>>80013871
>Nihilists have also accepted the fact that our lives (including the human race,) are insignificant in the grander scheme of the universe, meaning that what we accomplish on Earth has next to zero affect on the rest of the universe.
ahh, this line of reasoning is faulty.
This goes under the assumption that you are aware of the grand scheme of the universe to its fullest extent. To accept that is to reject curiosity, and IMO, dumb.
In addition, your whole universe is what is perceived by you.
Take this perception as a maximum, and you end up with nihilism, clearly since everything will die and fade. You presume to know the machinations of the universe completely as modern science understands them. Yet time and time again, we learn of how little we know.
>>80012317
Nihilism is philosophical suicide. Congratulations, you now have no reason not to commit suicide.
Perhaps try it? Isn't life about trying everything to you?
>>80012723
A lack of a deity often leads to a complete absence of mysticism and spirituality, basically divorcing you from an aspect of life that was the source of much art and scientific pursuits.
This is why atheism necessarily leads to nihilism.
Your decadent approach to life really honestly is proto-nihilism, if you want to make it count, try all the cool things, what so when you've done everything except the last thing you can try, suicide?
Perhaps kill yourself, nihilist.
>>80013548
There is no way you can form that conclusion, even if you do believe in life after death (which has absolutely zero bearing on whether or not a deity exists), you're still alive only once or only live life as yourself as you are now only once.
You'll only be Carl the Cuck once.
>>80013871
You have literally performed mental gymnastics for that feel good. In the end, you'll psychologically collapse under the contradictions.
Your life is meaningless, so why not end it sooner rather than continue the absurdity?
I've wrote enough.
Although I've wrote "kill yourself" multiple times, I don't actually mean it. It's simply for philosophical effect, that is, if life is meaningless, why suffer it longer? It's the philosophical question that most nihilists fail at.
>>80014614
Then die faggot and stop posting
>>80014614
Fucking edgy nihilist teen faggot. What a faggot.
I hate all nihilists and want to piss on them. Your attitude disgusts me.
>>80014538
There lies all the "fedora" kids meme
>atheists/nihilists like to pose as creatures of pure rationality
That would be a far-fetched claim for anyone.
>>80014302
God is immaterial and eternal. All value is rooted in Him for ever.
With him out of the picture it becomes just mere opinions with no objective standard to which you can compare two outlooks/valuations
>>80014371
MGTOW
thanks reddit
>>80014767
>strawman
Kek
>>80014846
I'm well aware of that, but the same argument can be made regarding Religion but having that argument would be pointless and a waste of time so I won't bother.
>>80014869
I probably will before im 70, but I have much to see and do. Why would I kill myself before I've done all the things I want, that's a waste.
>>80014946
MGTOW is the opposite of reddit, reddit is for cucks who support black rights and cucking their 'almost real' gfs
>>80014959
How many times do I have to tell you I'm anti-anarchist
stop shitposting
>>80014924
I'm probably older then you faggot. And you wouldn't know I'm a Nihilist if you ever met me since I'm not one of those assholes who constantly brags about my beliefs or lack of beliefs. Go back to fucking your moose Muhammed.
There are only two life philosophies
1. Nihilist
2. Reality Denilist
>>80015227
Do you want to fight me, you fucking faggot? I'm white. Go fuck yourself you nihilist piece of trash. You sound like a master faggot.
But you know what? Since you're a nihilist, don't reply to this, since nothing maters. jej. JEJ.
>>80015219
anti-anarchist, because kids made fun of you for being an anarchist.
>>80014946
>with him out of the picture it becomes just mere opinions with no objective standard to which you can compare two outlooks/valuations
Thinking an imaginary sky daddy governs objectivity and rationality.
God is already an opinion.
I choose to base my ideals on humanity, what makes people happy, sad, what keeps people alive, how their noodle works.
Many people need something to believe in, I would suggest this to instead become the belief in humanity, as a whole, humanity's divine right to rule the stars as the superior species.
>>80015608
What is your bait supposed to achieve.
An anarchistic society fails to function without devolving into chaos and in turn the destruction of society, ending with a post apocalypse type scenario with barbarians running around stealing food.
As fun as that sounds, i'd rather just play video games.
>>80015552
leaf you can't fight anyone bro
>>80014946
>All value is rooted in Him for ever.
Wait what, that's ridiculous.
How does things like "value" being mere human concepts remove all meaning from them? Why do human concepts need an objective anchor like a deity for us to ascribe meaning to them? Why isn't my own experience of consciousness enough?
>>80012009
>>80015227
You're an American, You aren't a real nihilist.
You're just delusional.
https://www.amazon.com/Closing-American-Mind-Education-Impoverished/dp/1451683200
>>80012009
>find soap
>unemployment philosophy guild
>NEET's r US
>>80014516
I am a self described atheist, anarchist, and nihilist.
>>80015803
require a deity because an absolute reference is necessary for anything.
>>80015772
>An anarchistic society fails to function without devolving into chaos and in turn the destruction of society, ending with a post apocalypse type scenario with barbarians running around stealing food.
An atheistic society fails to function without devolving into chaos and in turn the destruction of society, ending with a post apocalypse type scenario with barbarians running around stealing food.
-
My point.
>>80015552
You came to a nihilist thread to threaten people and have them not reply to you. How superior you must feel!
In reality, you must be a very sad and desperate little man.
>>80015998
you were one off trips bait bro
I mean lets just play the game
>A Christian society fails to function without devolving into chaos and in turn the destruction of society, ending with a post apocalypse type scenario with barbarians running around stealing food.
also I just lost the game to myself
>>80015772
I can kick the ass of any nihilist in this thread, m8ey. Don't even test me u rite cunt.
>>80016000
You are obviously too stupid to see the point I was trying to make. Read it again, faggot. You FAGGOT!!!!!
>>80016000
nice trips bait taking man
you didnt notice the leaf flag
>>80016000
I think you are misunderstanding.
He is invalidating every single nihilist in this thread when he does that.
>>80016137
>You FAGGOT!!!!!
Dude this bait is too real man
chill, if it didnt work before why would it work now leafman?
>>80016191
Also bait master 2000
>>80015071
only for very specific religions could that same argument be made.
>>80015520
I read that as
>reality dentist
kek
>>80016128
>Christian society
>steal
>>80014869
>Nihilism is philosophical suicide.
Correct, and this is a good thing.
>Congratulations, you now have no reason not to commit suicide.
Incorrect. I am biologically programmed to want to live. Why go against that?
>>80016250
>Also bait master 2000
>I don't understand Nihilism and I know more than someone who has read Sartre, Camus, Nietzsche, and Kierkegaard
>>80015805
Read half way through that post before he started on his christcuck rampage.
>>80014869
>Your life is meaningless, so why not end it sooner rather than continue the absurdity?
because absurdity is amusing and pleasurable. why shouldn't I want to experience a life long comedy?
>>80016541
Can someone explain the term christcuck, or is it just adding cuck to everything because reasons or something
>>80015972
>absolute reference
Says who?
By what logic?
For that matter, why can't nature itself be an absolute reference. Sure our understanding of it changes, but the nature of the universe remains constant. Why can't we base meaning on that and adjust it as needed? Even if there WAS a god, our understanding of it would always be imperfect and changing so how is that so different?
>>80015219
Sorry, a waste of what? Life is absurd and meaningless, you can't possibly hope to actually try it all, so why not do it sooner than latter?
>>80016472
To become master of your own destiny and reality against the superficial programming caused by evolution?
>>80016545
Because everything you could argue is pleasurable absolutely requires some expenditure of energy or rather some sort of pain to achieve. When life has no meaning, it becomes a rat trap experiment where you're conditioned to enjoy pain by fleeting rewards.
Without meaning, the only answer that gives you any control is suicide.
>>80016828
"Turn the other cheek" is a cuck ideology.
>yes, keep hitting me, I have the moral high ground
>YESSS, hit me HARDER
Absolutely disgusting.
>>80014869
no....?
Nietzsche and camus said that evangelicalism is philosophical suicide you fucking idiot.
>>80016877
>To become master of your own destiny and reality against the superficial programming caused by evolution?
Why should I do that?
>>80016250
Shut up u limey nihilist british cunt m8. I hope your economy crashes.
>>80016877
Not everything in life, everything I want to do.
Why must you shitpost so? You know exactly what I mean.
>>80016491
Thinking reading others works gives you an in depth understanding of psychological affairs.
No, the only thing that can do that is thinking, thinking for far too long and far too much
>>80016967
Turn the other cheek, in what context, you mean when someone insults you and slaps you on the cheek? There's a more modern meme for this.
>>80017191
leaf pls
Nihilism is the realization that a thing isn't significant or valuable if it can't be destroyed.
It's hard to appreciate something that will always be granted.
Of course, the unintelligent hordes will view nihilism as a group of edgelords who want to see the destruction of everything. It's the complete opposite. Nihilists enjoy vast complex constructions that will fade with time. The short lifespan gives emphasizes the greatness.
>>80016877
>When life has no meaning, it becomes a rat trap experiment where you're conditioned to enjoy pain by fleeting rewards.
not really. if you meditate and cultivate a positive belief system then life is generally more pleasurable than painful. no need to install false meaning through fairy tales when you experience legitimate joy on a day to day basis.
>>80017281
When you say things like unintelligent hordes, you don't help anything
all that does is foster more dislike towards nihilists
>>80017281
You're retarded. Nihilists don't believe in value.
>>80017368
Because it's the most accurate way to describe them. Intelligence is the ability to differentiate the significant from the insignificant. Boiling nihilism down to a group that seeks to see everything burn rather than a group that appreciates significance via brevity, is unintelligent.
>>80017023
Evangelism is philosophical weakness, but not suicide. It's essentially approval seeking behaviour to justify one's own belief via the acceptance of others.
Nihilism is philosophical suicide, because when life itself has no meaning every experience you've had ceases to as well. Any question you could ask can be dodged simply via arguing the answer is unimportant, so the question is doubly so.
Nihilism shuts down the conversation, I can't tell you how unimpressed I am with philosophers confronted with hard questions who only respond with "what if it doesn't matter?"
This is actually why Hank Green is a shit tier philosopher.
>>80017082
Rebellion against a system of control that ultimately has no conclusion.
>>80017208
I'm not shitposting, I'm arguing. By simply dismissing me as a shitposter (cue aspersions to my nationality) you're attempting to shut down the conversation in very classic nihilistic style.
>>80017322
Awesome, now I don't believe you're a genuine nihilist. If life begins to have meaning either for itself or of itself, then you are no longer a nihilist and I can start arguing a sort of sacredness of life which I'll eventually slippery slope into an argument for God.
>>80017718
>Rebellion against a system of control that ultimately has no conclusion.
Again, why should I do that? Why should I rebel?
>>80017521
Yes they do. They see that value is obtained only when something is destined to end.
Your life, for example, is destined to end. Because it is destined to end, you do things which add value to your life so that its ending is significant.
This also clarifies why nihilists are not all suicidal edgelords. By realizing that life has no inherent meaning, it grants the freedom to create the meaning of your own life.
>>80017828
You're thinking of existentialists, anon. Nihilism is essentially anti-philosophy. A book on nihilism would just be blank.
>>80017807
To free yourself from a sadistic rat trap that's conditioning you to enjoy and even seek your own pain and destruction.
>>80017828
Even theists believe their lives are destined to end, even theists believe they'll only live as themselves in the material world only once.
You're failing nihilism. If life has no meaning than any self ascribed meaning is a delusion in place of something you don't believe exists, it's necessarily ego centric and solipsistic.
>>80018233
>To free yourself from a sadistic rat trap that's conditioning you to enjoy and even seek your own pain and destruction.
Why not just enjoy it?
i can understand where some of you are coming from on this board trying to role play as a good christian or a born again cool kid whos rational christian. I grew up in this dog shit religion with people who followed the religion to the T it has done nothing for them for any of my family maybe you can say they have had decent lives where they havent come down with some kind of deathly illness or something but that doesnt change what ive witnessed throughout my entire "christian" existence. Trust me its not as fun as they make it out to be.
>>80012323
Pretty much this
>Oooo I like did ideeeaa
>lemme start a thrad :DDD fugg
>>80017718
>in very classic nihilistic style.
cmon
how new do you think I am.
The fact you're an aussie doesn't help you either, or proxxy
>>80018233
Nihilism is the appreciation of the end. It's the realization that something has to end before its peak can be most significant.
The brevity of something makes it valuable; which is why nihilism appreciates when something ends.
>>80017718
>Awesome, now I don't believe you're a genuine nihilist. If life begins to have meaning either for itself or of itself, then you are no longer a nihilist and I can start arguing a sort of sacredness of life which I'll eventually slippery slope into an argument for God.
I don't believe that life has meaning. pleasure and pain exist, and if life is more pleasure than pain then it's worth living. perhaps that makes me something like a hedonist except I don't rely on external stimuli.
I have no problem with the concept of a creator per se, I just think the traditional concept of someone with a human value system, who created all of existence and now is sitting around getting upset because you're masturbating, is incredibly ridiculous.
>>80018734
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilism
>>80014133
A smug sense of superiority, m'lady.
According to nihilism nothing has value. So atheism and faith have the same value(0) so I might as well believe in God.
>>80012009
Just b/c you're an atheist, it doesn't mean you cant find meaning in life.
>>80017718
Just because life is pointless or meaningless dosnt mean we should just give up, or when something hard is presented to us we can just give up.
Did you miss the entire premise of "Übermensch" ? that is the cure to nihilism.
>>80018905
Your literally admitting you believe in something that dosnt exist, how absolutely absurd and redudant does that sound to have a religon that dictates the values, and morals of your life instead of creating them your self?
once again...look up Übermensch
>>80018926
>Just because life is pointless or meaningless dosnt mean we should just give up
it sort of does. why struggle if there is no point?
but then, we make our own point
>>80018820
Nice link.
When you understand what you've read there, I hope you remember what I've told you.
To be a nihilist who doesn't kill themselves is to be a nihilist who realizes that nihilism is the only way to have complete freedom in your own life.
>>80019187
just because your life is a struggle doesn't mean mine always is
>>80019230
I've never understood the nihilism = suicide meme. Why is suicide the default? Why is it that people need a "reason to live", not a "reason to die"?
>>80016877
>To become master of your own destiny
one of nihilism's core tenets.
>>80019400
Where are these tenets written? I wasn't aware nihilism had any.
>>80012009
Depends on what kind of nihilism. If it refers to there being no meting or purpose to life, then yes. It's the logical conclusion to atheism. Going purely off science, there is zero evidence of meaning, purpose, souls, or free choice.
People will sometimes say "evolution is the purpose!" But that's NOT a purpose; it's a result. It's simply the byproduct of the rules of the universe. There's not really any goal. It's just it's what naturally occurs.
>>80013298
That's the point. There is no objective meaning or purpose to life. It's just subjective. It's not real, it's just chemicals in your brain that react a certain way to make you FEEL like there is meaning, despite there being no real objective behind it.
>>80012009
>conflating atheism with meaninglessness
are you a first year philosophy student or just a half-assed troll?
>>80019380
It comes from a misunderstanding that nihilism = everything is meaningless.
Nihilism = nothing has any inherent meaning.
also friendly reminder that
absurdism >>>>>>>>>> nihilism
Absurdism accepts that no true meaning of life, the universe, or anything can ever present itself to humans as it would be self defeating.
Absurdism also reconciles how humanistic expectations / beliefs /whatever are largely incongruent with reality, as such it would make sense that most other philosophies are incongruent with the true reality as well.
This leaves us to drudge about our daily lives like the idiots we are. So do what you need to to make yourself feel good becaus we dont really have a fucking clue.
>>80019875
Still, I don't see how you arrive at suicide. Why is it impossible to enjoy a meaningless life?
>>80019511
>Ubermencsh
Did you actually ever read Nietzsche?
>>80019766
and somehow believing in a god makes this any less absurd? even with the promise of an afterlife, life is still meaningless and redundant. You just get an eternity of ignorant bliss to contend with after you die.
>>80013871
>Not only that, but Nihilists have also accepted the fact that our lives (including the human race,) are insignificant in the grander scheme of the universe, meaning that what we accomplish on Earth has next to zero affect on the rest of the universe.
But that's not nihilism. That's what absurdism is, the next logical step beyond nihilism. Which still encourages man to try to figure out as much as he can about our role in this whole thing while accepting the fact that it's absurd to look upon it arrogantly and selfishly. Once you reach this change you will grow out of your atheism and have more respect for the Christians who, unlike other religions, don't blow shit up and help their local communities and do a lot of good things larger than the religious theological aspect itself that atheists get stuck on and endlessly obsess over. Maybe if you do your homework you'll see that atheism in the modern sense was a tool of communist states and in many ways is an agenda against western culture.
>>80019380
Honestly, that disturbs me even more. It may be the the only reason I'm still alive today.
NO action is logical for a nihilist. Not living. Not dying. You're living in a world where reason is impossible.
You're in Hell. And there is no way out.
>>80018274
Makes you a masochist or that you're necessarily seeking your own destruction, meaning I can laugh at you in the same way I laugh at cucks.
Self destructive philosophies are "wrong" purely for the argument for optimism and pragmatism.
>>80018584
I'm a genuine Aussie, which is why I failed pretty hard in the "how do atheists justify consciousness" thread 12 hours ago. I was tired. Now I'm caffeinated, ready to chew fallacious atheists like the angsty, nihilistic untermensch they are.
If it's indeed the brevity, why not plan to end it sooner? More brevity the more valuable.
>>80018797
>life is more pleasure than pain then it's worth living.
And if it's not? Siddhartha Gautama argued quite eloquently otherwise.
>I have no problem with the concept of a creator per se, I just think the traditional concept of someone with a human value system, who created all of existence and now is sitting around getting upset because you're masturbating, is incredibly ridiculous.
I too believe It's ridiculous which is why I instantly lose respect for the retards who attempt to straw man me with it.
I believe in a sort of (deist, pantheistic, but conscious) God, I don't believe it cares about your sins and virtues although being virtuous in many cases leads to greater success, either for you or your immediate tribe, or otherwise means you're more likeable, in either case giving you and your tribe an evolutionary advantage.
I believe virtue and self control are qualities that should be pursued for themselves and their arguable benefits, it's about becoming a greater identity.
>>80018926
An ubermensch doesn't believe life is meaningless though and naturally resists both decadence and nihilism. Ubermensch is the belief life has meaning for itself and by extension its family unit, which is the next best representation of itself.
>>80019400
Which means you're no longer a nihilist.
If control of this reality must be wrestled from an underlying logic, whose is that logic?
>>80019950
It's impossible not to create meaning in your own life. Nihilism is realizing that you created it.
>>80019958
Nietzsche wasn't a nihilist. His whole philosophy was about overcoming nihilism.
>>80020008
Why does no reason = hell?
>>80020048
>Makes you a masochist or that you're necessarily seeking your own destruction
I'm just doing what I'm programmed to do. It's easier that way. Rejecting my nature is pointless, because neither my nature or any alternatives have value.
>>80019886
oh, and buddhist philosophy destroys both of these.
>>80019979
Absurdism is the escape from nihilism I think.
In the absence of meaning or purpose, there is STILL one logical action left: to LOOK for meaning or purpose, no matter how small the chances are that you'll find it or that it even exists.
And this also allows us to conveniently enjoy ourselves, because science verifies that a happy, less stressful and depressed mind is better functioning. So we can justify doing things that have no purpose other than that. Because it ultimately should help us on learning more about the universe.
>>80020193
It's entirely possible. Just do things you like. They don't have to be meaningful, just follow the dopamine. Whether you get that dopamine from heroin or from contributing to your community is up to you.
>>80018436
>Christian
>cool kids
Good one r/atheism.
>>80020425
Do you really not see how your statement contradicts itself?
The meaning of an action is the "why" behind that action.
>>80018909
Then explain how.
>>80020428
"cool kid" saying that its different and neat its coolto be different nowdays ya know
>>80020592
What philosophy does a dog have?
That's what I'm advocating.
>>80020316
"Hell is the impossibility of reason"
Without logic, you will go mad. Or, more accurately, being logical in a universe where the ultimate answer is unacceptable will make you mad.
All your actions must derive from something else. But when you follow that chain to the beginning, you find that there's nothing there. So all the links are now pointless. They serve no objective purpose.
>>80020658
Blind loyalty if it means survival.
Nihilism = The Beautiful Ones Mice Experiment
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z760XNy4VM
Also I quit /pol/ - it's literally all shill threads at this point.
>>80019973
I never said that. All that does is the point where the logic breaks down. But I think it's not really any more delusional than atheists who claim that morality and meaning exist despite having no evidence for it.
>>80020665
Logic is a tool. I don't go mad in a room with no hammers or saws, so likewise I don't go mad in the absence of logic.
Trying to "get to the bottom" of logic is like taking all your tools apart. They won't work, you'll end up frustrated, and it's a pointless exercise.
>>80020799
What about a bacteria? What philosophy does a bacteria have?
>>80020048
So your saying anyone who chooses to opt OUT of being a parent/repdorucing isnt a ubermensch?
are you implying that neitzche wasnt an ubermensch? the very man that created the concept?
Being a ubermensch carving your own path, thinking separately from the herd mentality of evangelicalism and brainwashed politcal constituents.
An ubermensch in short is a man/women who rises above his or her own circumstances to achieve the things they desire in life whilst actively caring for the salvation of mankind.
>>80020859
Logic is a tool to understanding truth. The issue is, the truth that you arrive at shows that there is no purpose. Not even for the tools. Once you've reached that point, they are now useless.
>>80020316
>overcoming
which is by and large, an extension of the philosophy, and needs to be considered before you blindly accept that nothing matters
>>80020922
>not an argument
their not conscious.
they are drones.
Test
>>80020922
Divide and spread.
You're picking lifeforms incapable of higher thought, much less of a having a philosophy. Your argument, if you ever had one, is already irrelevant.
>>80021093
Truth is a tool as well. Stop thinking that the stuff inside your head is also outside of your head. We use "truth" to get things done, it isn't our lifeblood.
As far as purpose goes, the only people who wonder what their purpose is, are people who are bored. Find something you enjoy doing and do it.
>>80020859
You're not taking apart the tools: you're using them until they become useless. Now you have no purpose.
One (Not great) analogy would be like those shitty games like Destiny or the Division. The entire part that is fun is the idea that you're progressing towards something. That's what is rewarding to your brain. But eventually, you've beaten everything, gotten to the top level, and got all the equipment. And now you realize there is no purpose to any of it. There's nothing left for you to enjoy.
>>80021215
You haven't caught on, yet. I'm saying live without philosophy. Just act. Contradict yourself if you want, who cares. Life isn't math.
I believe there is no life after death and that a life of an individual, on its own, is meaningless. But humanity as a whole has a potential to be infinite, and, as such, can have an intristic value. Therefore I feel obliged to contribute to the development of the society.
>>80021374
That's a great analogy actually, because the real problem isn't that the game has no purpose, the problem is that you aren't having fun. "Life has no purpose" isn't a real thought, it's an error code indicating depression or boredom.
>>80020610
You could be a hedonist, live life to achieve a goal, follow a religious ideology without believing it, build a family and live for their sake, get a hobby...etc the list goes on.
>>80014614
Why would you give a fuck if anyone knows your name 100 years from now.
>>80021309
What you're advocating for is blind ignorance. But I can't make myself believe in fiction if I KNOW it's not true.
And no. Truth is not a tool. Truth is reality. It's what we exist inside.
>>80020193
See >>80018233
No, if you're a genuine nihilist you don't get meaning. You get nothing. Cherish your sweet nothing with mental gymnastics that mix deep anxious fear with elated joy like a masochist mixes physical pain with sexual pleasure... Or kill yourself.
>>80020316
>I'm just doing what I'm programmed to do. It's easier that way.
Bad faith. The worst faith. You have now surrendered control and cease to be a genuine person.
Gold star for being a true nihilist though.
>Rejecting my nature is pointless, because neither my nature or any alternatives have value.
Rejecting nature is the single most defining aspect of humanity, whether it's animal herding, agriculture, built dwellings or this non immersive virtual reality we're using right now.
>>80020658
The dog has the Buddha mentality.
>>80020425
You are literally advocating drug use, remember what I wrote about self destructive philosophies? It's the only self evidently wrong philosophies, even nihilism can be arguably correct.
Drugs are fine, that's about controlling your reality. Becoming the drugs is not, if all you are is a heroin addict, I got bad news for you.
>>80020665
I'm like, sorry, who are you? Turns out you're also against the nihilists and I've regretfully not read your posts because I haven't disagreed with them.
/pol/ is the epitome of loving your enemy, unfortunately this makes you ambivalent of your allies.
BTW there is no such thing as hell, on earth or in an ethereal realm. It's not even something believed by Jesus, it's something to scare people into virtue since the scaremongers fail to accept there are reasons to be virtuous in itself.
>>80020964
Yes, being a genetic dead end is exiting the game. It's necessarily not contributing to the advancement of the human race, it's ensuring whatever positive genetic traits you may or may not have are irreplaceably lost.
Ironically, no, Nietzsche was not an ubermensch.
Otherwise you're correct about the ubermensch, rise above.
What's with all this debating about nihilism? All means is life has no higher purpose. You can just wallow in the fact that we don't exist for a reason or you can just accept that fact and make the best of your life
>>80020612
Christians now the subversives.
Wonder how many kids of atheist parents will become Christian just to piss off their parents.
>>80020859
I would liken it to a predator trying to kill prey up in a tree. try and try it might, but it simply cannot get into the tree. The faculties the predator has access to disallow it from killing the prey.
Similarly, human logic and perception is not enough to reach ultimate truth. Nihilism is a predator realizing that he cannot catch the prey, and assuming the prey is non-existent.
>>80015071
I thought you thought everything was pointless so how can anything be a waste of time
>>80021392
oh but you couldnt have been further from the truth.....haha
>>80021686
>accept that fact
passing it off as fact is what we are arguing about.
It is a philosophy and you simply can't argue it's factual truth.
>>80020377
>In the absence of meaning or purpose, there is STILL one logical action left: to LOOK for meaning or purpose, no matter how small the chances are that you'll find it or that it even exists.
absurdism isn't about looking for meaning. it's more about laughing at the fact that there isn't any, and living in spite of that. at least, that's how Camus defined it
>>80021392
>Wu Wei
nice.
>>80021609
>But I can't make myself believe in fiction if I KNOW it's not true.
Sure you can. Try harder.
>Truth is reality. It's what we exist inside.
You're sounding pretty religious, right now. How do you know that?
>>80021621
>Bad faith. The worst faith.
Bad faith is the best faith. I'm a willful hypocrite and I lie to advance my arguments, because I enjoy winning. In the absence of truth, debate is a fun game, and I love to cheat.
>Gold star for being a true nihilist though.
Thanks, f a m.
>>80021536
No, there is no OBJECTIVE purpose. What purpose does having fun serve? It allows our brain to send us messengers that say "do this more!". But why do they tell us this? That's the question, and the answer is that that is just the way we have evolved. There is grand purpose of meaning to life. Or if there is, we haven't found it yet.
But you're right that our emotions don't reward us for finding objective truth, so we're kind of doomed when we look for it. The truth seems to be incompatible with our own happiness, so you must live a lie, or stop living. Or, the third option, keep searching in desperate hope until you find a more acceptable answer.
>>80021621
I agree he wasnt an ubermensch (imo he was but just my opinion)
But why do you think most geniuses dont reproduce? they want to exit the game.
My genes are not superior to the top 1% who will reproduce so it dosnt matter if i procreate or not, has nothing to do with the salvation of humanity, what does have to do with humanity is the choices and actions we make in our current lifetimes, and how they inadvertently affect the future.
lotta non-arguments in this thread
>>80022044
>But why do they tell us this? That's the question, and the answer is that that is just the way we have evolved
pack it in boys!
that's it!
science and understanding motivation is over
evolution is the final answer.
>>80021831
When you consider what we know about the universe and its creation you can come to the conclusion that it's fact
Fodera atheist here
Of course I'm aware of nihilism, and yea, some aspects of it are probably true. But just because life doesnt matter doesnt mean I cant enjoy the ride.
>>80022129
calling something "not an argument" is not an argument
>>80022044
>What purpose does having fun serve?
If you're saying this, you aren't enjoying life. Again, it's not a real thought, it's a debug message. Fix your shit.
>>80022193
>When you consider what we know about the universe and its creation
pack it in boys!
that's it!
science and understanding reality is over
void-->big bang is the final answer!
>>80012723
"The struggle itself [...] is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Myth_of_Sisyphus
>>80022316
is there any non-egocentric, inherent value in enjoyment?
>>80022517
Oh look, another one!
The real question you should be asking is "is there any inherent enjoyment in the idea of value?"
>>80022044
>fun
>having an objective purpose
Do you not understand what leisure is?
>>80022316
Some depression is natural, especially in puberty. And to be honest, nihilism has a couple good points. However, in my opinion, its the philosophy of someone who just wiped their slate clean. The first stop on the path to building your own ideals and values
>>80021952
I really don't think I can. Here's the closest I've gotten; it's basically a modified version of Pascal's wager, except it works logically.
If life has no meaning or purpose, nothing you do is right or wrong. If it DOES have purpose, surely it's better and more logically to believe that it had purpose.
There are two issue with this though:
1. I still don't know what the purpose IS (so my only purpose now is to look for purpose)
2. Even if this logically follows, it doesn't change the facts that the facts point towards meaninglessness. So, just like in Pascal's Wager, I can't necessarily make myself believe it, even if it seems to make sense to do so. The odds are still so small.
>>80022235
>enjoy the ride
That's hedonism.
>"some aspects"
Don't even bother to post if this is how lazy you think.
>>80022621
Is...is that you Kant?
>>80022647
>The first stop on the path to building your own ideals and values
Why build anything?
>>80022651
Don't worry, nihilism pulls the rug out from under your whole post by deconstructing logic and truth anyways. Your reasoning framework has no solid foundation, so your conclusions are bound to be bogus regardless. It doesn't matter what logically follows, because logic doesn't logically follow.
>>80022339
As opposed to what?
God(s) ---> universe as we know it
For now what we know about the universe can be tested and tried which makes it the best contender. Anything else that's based just on faith alone can be thrown out because it lacks any evidence
>>80022647
Perhaps you should explain it.
Although I will admit as I did before, that leisure/fun can improve the functioning of your mind and your effective intelligence. So it is useful if you are looking for truth or meaning. Trouble is, once you reizs that that is only reason for entertainment, it becomes harder to enjoy it. You essentially have to turn off your higher thinking. Which is possible. But then I don't want to turn it back on!
>>80022928
You don't know what nihilism is apparently. Not existential nihilism, anyway.
>>80023060
I'm a metaphysical nihilist, ya goober. Existential nihilism is for pussies.
>>80021392
>>80021917
Much respect.
>>80021952
So you don't mind being a disingenuous person on a whim. You truly are a nihilist.
>>80022044
Fun is a mechanism of control, it's what is blocking you from your own self control. I'm not advocating complete asceticism.
>>80022076
It's actually something wrong with society itself that most geniuses don't reproduce and many people believe the solution is the popularization of philosophy.
Sapiosexuality could very well become something a true intellectual community should aspire to create. It'll require an attractive person who happens to be incredibly intelligent, who happen to be rare individuals. Unfortunately, the mediocre seek mediocrity in others to justify their own mediocrity, so these individuals are regularly knocked down a peg purely for tall poppy syndrome.
This is why it hasn't been done before, the people involved don't seem to exist or have been obscured by mediocre people.
>>80022445
Completely not nihilistic.
>>80022517
I'd argue no.
Even then "define your own meaning" either requires debate, is ultimately ego centric or is simply not nihilistic.
>>80022651
This post is exactly why people should believe in God.
>>80022699
>thats hedonism
But anon, I dont drink alcohol or do drugs. I dont even smoke cigarettes and I think hollywood and snapchat are shit. Im a tradesman
>how lazy you think
Dude I've probably read more Nietzsche than you anyways. I've read his fucking letters about Wagner...
Adhering strictly to a single philosophy is nigger tier
>>80022928
Because we're humans, and that is just what we are bound to do. Rocks roll down hills, goats eat grass, and humans philosophize and carry shopping bags. This is literally what you are evolved to do. Are you going to fight it, or go with the flow?
>>80022941
God(s) --> Universe isn't the only other option bub.
we can only accomplish and know so much
it is logical to assume there exists a set of truths which we, as a collective, human conscious, do not know.
please read >>80021746
>>80023290
Smoking, drinking, and doing drugs are not hednoistic. You think the addict, the cancer patient and the alchoholic enjoy and bring the most pleasure into life? These are degenerate.
>>80023290
>no alcohol
>no drugs
>no cigarettes
>no hollywood
>no snapchat
What does this have to do with "not" being a hedonist? I don't think you understand hedonism.
>>80023246
Alright, then we're on agreement with the idea of fun. I think.
As for believing in God, maybe. But the issue is: how do choose what God you believe in? And how do you make yourself believe? I guess deism wouldn't be a terrible choice.
It's a good way to make yourself calm enough to start looking for more answers. Because if after all this, you can believe in higher power, you probably won't encounter much else to make you disbelieve.
>>80022951
Nah man, your thinking of it from the wrong angle. You are assuming you are bound to that a priori youve set. You want the universe to be meaningless, so youve found a rhetoric that suits your ambition.
Ppl will make fun of me, but try reading wittgensteins lectures on aesthetics
>>80012009
Why kill time when you can kill yourself?
>>80023465
I'm going with the flow right now. I find it easier to live without meaning or philosophy. Sure I have the inclination to build things in real life, but I have no inclination to build ideologies, especially knowing they are built on sand.
>>80023637
>>80023663
This is why people don't like you religious faggots. You think you have a monopoly on being offended. Guess what? I've never done anything in my life except a few speeding tickets, I dont belittle people or treat them like shit, and I havent missed a day of work in 6 years.
You have every right to call me hedonistic, but seriously, fuck off
>>80013871
So you know whether or not humans will one day join a federation of planets over the next 3 billion years? Where did you get this information?
>>80023477
Like I said anything based on blind faith can be thrown out because it can be tested. You can claim that anything and everything exist outside of human perception
>>80023760
If you don't find your own beliefs, even if it means atheism, you will never have genuine beliefs. This shit must come from you personally or not at all.
>>80024089
nigga that is an ideology.
>>80024346
that isn't blind faith though. It is safe to assume since science is always making new discoveries.
Your blind faith in empiricism is troubling.
>>80024089
>they are built on sand
But m8, the tactile results are incredibly. Look what Hitler managed to do with ideology. I dont care about good and evil in this regard, or whether the holocaust happened or not, but look at how the country mobilized.
Philosophies are just models of thinking about our world. We build on the old, and mix in new information. We tweak our models to keep them up to date. Ultimately, philosophy itself is trivial
>>80022246
neither is that
>>80024231
>tries to act superior on nihilism and obscure information
>gets a basic term wrong
>gets offended
>blames Christians
wew lad
>>80023954
Are you kidding? I remember how much happier I was before I thought of this stuff. None of it is a priori. And I don't want to believe it.
But that's the problem. Clearly I'm biased towards believing that there is still meaning in life, otherwise I wouldn't be looking for it despite seeing no evidence, now would I?
If anything, I suffer from confirmation bias that purpose is real. If I found an answer that convinced me that it was, I probably wouldn't keep looking for challenges to that.
We're hard wired to be biased towards purpose. It's the default feeling. We have to fight that in order to look for the truth, and that's why it doesn't make us feel good.
>>80024449
Quitting the game isn't part of the game.
>>80024666
Ideologies tie your hands. "You can't do this, you can't do that." Living without an ideology enables you to do what you like, including pretending you have an ideology to get what you want from other people, which encompasses your suggestion.
>>80024782
LMAO so you were actually implying that I believe pleasure is a mathematically measurable goal?
>>80024448
Not really sure what you mean by that. What are you are suggesting?
>>80012009
>not choosing epicureanism
>>80025014
>without an ideology enables you to do what you like
there is your ideology, plain and simple.
you let desires come and you act on them.
>>80025007
Dude you believe in a paradox. If you're really a nihilist, what is the point of making a fucking thread about it?
>>80025014
>ideologies tie your hands
They tie your hands the same way building codes prevent houses from burning down. Nihilism is philosophical anarchy.
>>80024758
kek
this isn't an argument either
>>80024346
Flashback: Germs didn't exist until we could prove they exist. I'm not believing in magical "GERMS" until you can prove it! Some evidence might point to "GERMS" but they could just as well point to espers so I disregard all evidence until there is conclusive proof.
>>80025147
By that logic, any living creature has an ideology. What you're saying is the philosophical equivalent of saying anarchy is a form of government.
>>80025127
I'm saying there's a point that I can't help you and if there's no logic to convince you of theism, the moral (or less nihilistic) choice is atheism.
If you don't find your own beliefs, those beliefs will not be genuine and they will necessarily be either weak or dogmatic.
>>80025223
>They tie your hands the same way building codes prevent houses from burning down. Nihilism is philosophical anarchy.
Correct, so if you intend to benefit from burning houses down, you shouldn't adhere to building codes. Same thing with philosophy.
>>80025310
ah it is
0 is still a number, right?
0 has a "value" even though it is defined as a+0=0+a=a
>>80012009
How do do you come out of the hole that is nihilism, I didn't ask for this.
>>80025024
Interesting thought, what evidence is there to suggest it is or isn't?
>>80025223
I already explained this:
If you can find no purpose to life, then there is only one logical thing left to do- look for purpose. And I would consider myself more absurdist than nihilist.
>>80025395
Which is fine, but youll find that the person who merely burns houses down has a much less expanded view on life. They may even lack the tools to appreciate their own nihilism
>>80025417
0 is a number, but it does not have value
Nihilism has a name, but it is not an ideology
>>80014946
I'm pretty sure the existentialist atheists would have something to say to that.
But hey, I'm a nihilist, I don't really buy the whole existentialist package.
>>80025238
>>80025459
I don't see how that follows. Why not just *not* look for purpose instead.
>>80025569
The person burning down a house has a better view than the person trapped in one of the rooms.
>>80025437
Absurdism is one way. The other is >>80025459
Looking for purpose is a logical purpose. I know that may not sound life a very satisfying existence, but remember that you can still enjoy most of the things you used to: entertainment and happiness actually help your brain function better, so you can reason that even playing video games (non-obsessively) can actually help you in your search for meaning, and thus be meaningful. Same goes with relationships.
>>80025459
>look for purpose
What about the whole, "Treasure you can only find when you aren't looking," thing. I dont think purpose is something science can give you. You can have a passion for science and discovery, but I'm not sure it can answer a question like, "What is the purpose of humanity." I think we define those answers by the way we live our lives. Our satisfaction with the answers will be to the extent that we were able to carry out our will
>>80025442
For starters, the concept that small amounts of pain or sadness can increase the feeling of pleasure later
>>80025840
That doesn't mean you can't look for it. If you don't believe science can help you then don't use science.
>>80025594
Ideology: the ideas and manner of thinking characteristic of a group, social class, or individual
explain how nihilism is not n ideology using that definition of ideology.
It is literally a set of ideas and manner of thinking about reality. And a group of people share those same basic ideas.
I'm not gonna argue this semantic bullshit anymore.
>>80025745
>the arson has a better view
Oh really? Are you sure about that? Yes, hes alive, but what his view really better? Was it better before or after he did it? Or even during, truly?
>>80014371
>not beta male
>MGTOW
that is some cognitive dissonance if I have ever seen it.
>>80026039
Are you even a scientist? What sort of experiment would you propose to discover the purpose for the existence of humanity
>>80025840
>small amounts
>not measured
>>80026049
Bye! :^)
>>80026052
We're getting too deep into this analogy. I'm a nihilist because I like tearing the fuck out of other people's ideologies for fun, and because I see nothing wrong with contradiction or hypocrisy. I think it's a pretty good way to live, and I like doing so. That's pretty much the only justification I need.
>>80026142
I meant a small amount of events
If you have a means of quantifying the intensity or length of an emotion, Im dying to hear it
>>80026303
>I'm a nihilist because I like tearing the fuck out of other people's ideologies for fun
Sure, you like shooting fish in a barrel. Some people like farming fish. No big deal. People like me understand that humanity on a whole needs people like you. You are like earthworms, poking holes in the soil. And its not just nihilists--its other punks, thugs, niggers, and general overgrown problem children as well.
>>80026616
I'm glad we understand each other. A society of nihilists would not function, but a few can exist as parasites :^)
>>80026303
>I see nothing wrong with contradiction or hypocrisy
no kidding.
>I'm a nihilist because I like tearing the fuck out of other people's ideologies for fun
sad!
>>80025359
Really enjoyed your posts
What are your favorite/best philosophers?
>>80026711
No problem. Hopefully one day you will realize that you've trapped yourself in a paradox of your own invention
>>80026303
Im sorry you were abused as a child
