Is the horsehoe theory correct?
Are we more similar to the far-left than the moderate-right?
Pol is the last honest man.
We have no sacred cows, we are not muzzled by guilt for shit we didn't do. What everyone else is thinking, we say.
>>79723794
yes
No, "horseshoe theory" is just a thing for normies to feel better.
The "Far-right" is similiar to the Far-left for real reasons, not because of some meta-ideological rule of the universe.
Nazism is called National Socialism for a reason, and it isn't to fool the working class.
>>79724017
t.leaf
>>79723966
>We have no sacred cows
Pajeet would have something to say about that
>>79723794
No, Nazism and fascism are post-marxist, demotist abortions.
The true "right-wing" leads to monarchism, traditional ideals and aesthetics, and economic capitalism.
The left spectrum always gets more peasant revolty, dysgenic and totalitarian, the right spectrum get more elitist, patriarchal, and property-based. The left dislikes all forms of property (including the property rights of sovereigns, which is why they are democratic or demotist/tyrannical). The right is all about a hierarchy of property, from the primary property owner (the soverign) on to down to his subjects and their dependents.
Fascism would at best be a temporary regime leading to the establishment of a hereditary monarchy and the gradual reinstallment of laissez-faire, with the monarch making strategic interventions when necessary.
The only real political spectrum is chaos---order, the fight against the natural law and the submission to the natural law.
>>79723794
>Are we more similar to the far-left than the moderate-right?
Are you a natsoc?
>>79723966
We also slaughter others' sacred cows
/thread
>>79723794
Yes.
I use both /pol/ and tumblr for comedy relief, trust me there is very little difference between the two groups.
Same coin, different side, but ultimately the exact same mentality and ideal. (and both utterly hilarious)
Left and right wing politics are a meme altogether.
What matters is strictly about what is the size and role of the government (especially with respect to the economy), and you can find "left wing" and "right wing" people who believe almost exactly the same things here.
I think that positions on social liberalism/conservatism are emergent properties of one's views on the government. For example, if I believe that the government should have no bearing on the validity of a marriage, I am implicitly permitting gay marriage, animal marriage, etc.
>>79725133
Hope you enjoy yourself Anglo
>>79723794
Think about it this way. Ever wondered why anarchists and fascists draw from the exact same crowd?
>>79724899
good post and photo. i read that the nazis were more of a vanguard party for a future aristocratic monarchy, just a tool to deal with communist russia and the western empires not a long term ideal and thats why they were tolerated by the elites
>>79723794
As a member of the far left -- I hope I have nothing in common with you fuckwits
>>79725563
Then why are you here
>>79725227
No, because if the state had nothing to do with marriage, it would be a purely religious institution and degenerates would get no benefit out of it, whereas people who are part of an influential religious community might use their status as married for support networks, status, and may be socially pressured into remaining faithful to the contract.
So, the abolition of legal marriage would end any semblance of actual marriage for all but a minority of people who are still members of socially dominant religious institutions that can exert peer pressure and distribute resources from unmarried couples to married couples or otherwise subsidize them.
Horseshoe theory is a load of crock mate. It's part of center's lazy attempt at explain the battle on the fringes. The center by it's very own nature does not fight the ideological battles, they represent pure inertia and non-committal attitude. ANd why would you expect the status-quo to be anything else then lazy accommodating fucks?
Most people are scared of confrontation and the horseshoe theory is just a theory to convince themselves that their ideological cowardice is worth something.
>>79725613
to troll
>>79725674
I don't see any problem with that. You should want to be married for the community, not for tax benefits.
Your post is not a response to or a counterargument against anything I said, you just chose to start it with "No," for some reason.
>>79726045
Yeah, I realized afterward that you might have not meant it the way I thought you did, so my bad.
>>79725947
Kek, use the word bait, we're too contrarian to use the word bait.
AnCom? I used to be an AnCom, then I saw the antifa beat up young women and children using immigrants as their shield which made me realize I didnt agree with them, they also bashed me for being Christians from the very start.
I also realized that the only reason you can act like you act is because everything lefties fight for are things that can only exist within a prosperous society that gives the people the luxury to even do these things because such a society can hold the weight of such behavior.
The destruction of cultural beliefs, gender-roles, the fatherless household, nationalism, identity to name a few are all things you have the luxury to rebel against because you have the luxury of a society that can survive temporary and idealistic believes like Socialism or its offspring.
Western civilizations grow lazy because they become used to having a society free of war or any other struggles and then they lose interest in the very principles that created their civilizations while naively practicing these idealistic beliefs that chip away at the core of their civilizations.
These ideals will never last and and after those ideals collapsed the next generation will go through a time of struggle where they relearn the principles that build their nations, history has proven this time and time again.
Traditionalism and nationalism will always resurface when they are most needed because they're the beliefs that build nations while yours destroy, that's the political cycle that keeps you from winning.
>>79725722
Funny because what you just wrote does sound exactly like something an antifa faggot would write.
Face it, this whole idiological battle is not between the right and the left but between conformist fascists vs people who believe in liberty and freedom.
>>79723794
Horseshoe theory is just leftists pretending National Socialists were on the right.
>>79726575
BS. There is no Liberty vs Fascism fight because essentially most people are quite content with tyranny as long it is the right kind of tyranny. When i said of fringes i also talk of Libertarians, not just authoritarians. THe center is by in large in favour of a mixed approach, spending 5 minutes with any normie would reveal that immediately. Antifa are like neo-nazis, knuckle dragging bafoons, they don't count like a legitimate ideology of any sort, just idiots that like to beat shit up for no reason and if they can attach a vague ideology to that all the better, makes for some laughable cover for their true motives, which are just violence for violence sake.
>>79723794
Yes.
But /pol/ isn't actually far right, that's basically what the lazy media is saying because they're not willing to address us honestly, so they'll call us Nazis and hope that makes us go away..
..to which we'll then post swastikas everywhere, because that's totally helping our case.
>>79729354
SIEG HEIL motherfucker
>>79726519
cute, where is the benis?
>>79729354
We have legit Nazis in our midst, but most of us are somewhere around the far-right, ofcourse they'll nitpick the radicals, much like we do with lefties.
>>79726519
see pic related (you may have seen it before)
The horseshoe is a construct of the statist left (bottom-left) and statist right (bottom right) wanting to portray themselves as less extreme side.
far-right and far-left are similar to each other only in the methods they try to employ (uprising, violent overthrow of government). their actual goals and underlying ideologies are polar opposites and couldn't be more opposed to each other.
I find a more 3 dimensional representation is necessary. The spectrum is not a straight line, its a cycle or a point within a cube. The chart posted above is pretty close.
>>79723794
It's bullshit. The radical right and radical left have vastly different beliefs and desired policies even if they both tend toward extremism and violence. The horseshoe theory exists so that indecisive, nihilistic moderates can feel smug about themselves.
>>79725133
Especially natsoc threads. I feel like on some special snowflake tumblr blog.
>>79723794
Extremism is only similar if they are similar.
A far right that wants a giant authoritarian borg state is going to be similar with an authoritarian leftist state, than an extremist right that wants anarcho capitalism.
And besides, the left/right thing has become to confusing and convoluted that I dont even care about theory anymore. Only solutions and trade offs.
>>79725133
>people with convictions are all the same, it's hilarious I am le neutral above it all man
>>79723794
>Is the horsehoe theory correct?
Absolutely, why do people even debate this
>>79723794
There's either right or wrong.
>>79730013
Fact remains the average /pol/ poster is moderate right relative to history, but obviously not relative to popular opinions/media, which is far left. In fact, /pol/ is somewhat libertarian which resists anything except moderation on the bipartisan spectrum.
But yes, we have Nazis here. They're a vocal minority.
>>79725133
I use it for argument practice, it keeps me sharp. Arguing against tumblerinas is infuriating, they'll literally argue against reason itself. Nazis are surprisingly receptive to reason.
Exactly how am I meant to react when told fallacies are just "buzzwords"?
>>79731157
I'd argue anarcho anything except the oxymoronic anarcho-* quite naturally resist the bipartisan spectrum.
If you're libertarian, you're going to have a similar reaction to Nazis as you would a Marxist.
/pol/ is mostly right leaning centrists
>>79731518
>Fact remains the average /pol/ poster is moderate right relative to history, but obviously not relative to popular opinions/media, which is far left.
This is a crucial point to make and destroys the very idea of "moderate." Say what you want about Nrx, but they got this exactly right. Tomorrow the centrist will be right wing and the next day he'll be a literal Nazi, all without changing his position one iota.
>>79731656
Winner winner chicken dinner.
>>79732017
That's true, we need a proper, non interchangeable definition of what extremism is. People use it in place of radicalism and vice versa.
Radicalism is extreme, but is all extremism radical?
Or are they just synonyms?
>>79732017
I disagree completely, if you're an ignorant, uneducated troglodyte then yes, today's fascist is tomorrow's moderate, but otherwise the rest of us study history, respect history and judge ourselves based on history. History is objective, it's unchanging and revisionism only ever changes your perception, but never reality itself.
Again, historically, /pol/ is moderate. Actually, even our Nazists are actually just on the extreme side of moderate.
Meanwhile, the popularly acceptable left is even further along than Stalin. There is some 1984 shit going on, convincing children to hate themselves and the like. That will never be moderate relative to history.
>>79726519
Get this ugly whore out of my face.
>>79732021
Chicken dinner how about SHEEN dinner.
>>79732474
god tier taste senpai.
>>79732413
I have no idea what you're disagreeing with m8. Of course it's based on peoples' opinions and not the actual objective facts of history. Society has had near constant leftward shift of opinion which is the reason why /pol/ is perceived as radical and why the left is "further along than Stalin."
>>79732961
I'm disagreeing with your relativism, it's as bad as what the left does and is essentially a middle ground fallacy.
The reality is it's not impossible that society itself is wrong, especially when you're impression of society is purely what the media shows you and the normies you know and meet who are eager to demonstrate how normal they are, again, with normality based on the media.
>>79732595
Where is this from?
Everyone who is debating definitions of terms like "left" and "right" has fallen for the dialectic Frankfurt School meme.
As many in the thread have said, what matters is outcomes, not identities. You could be a self-identified "left-wing" person, or a self-identified "right-wing" person. What matters in reality is only what you believe the size and role of the government should be. Should it have a military? Should it run a police force? Should it provide a living wage for its populace? Should it regulate industry? Should it exist at all?
Adding meme reifications of "left" and "right" only clutter the discussion, since everyone has their own subjective view of what these terms mean. There is no subjective view on the impact of a standing military, or mandatory conscription, or large prison systems.
Ironically, I would say we're more classically liberal than we are right wing.
We generally believe very strongly in individual freedoms and are highly meritocratic.
>>79723794
"Horseshoe theory" is what retards spam on KotakuinAction when they think feminists are coming to steal their video games. It doesn't actually mean anything.
>>79733456
fuck if i know. saved it here.
>>79733671
This is a better political map to define things.
>>79733438
That's the whole point. The media apparatus acts to define acceptable positions and drive viewpoints in a particular direction regardless of what has happened throughout history and what views of the time were.
Also, how in the fuck is what I said a golden mean fallacy when the entire point of the Overton Window concept is to refute the idea that the moderate position is somehow special because the spectrum is constantly shifting?
>>79733945
It is still nothing but clutter and distractions. If I tell you I am a "tribal darwinist," you can have many guesses about what I actually believe or what I would do if I were the dictator of the world.
However, if I said that I would ban Islam or conversely enact open borders, you would know something actionable about my beliefs.
These diagrams are basically just the intellectual version of "I identify as a demisexual sapioromantic ponygender"
>>79723794
If you cant see how similar the tactics and rhetoric on this site are to the sjws on tumblr, you are blind. I think the most healthy thing for all the neckbeards and legbeards of the internet would be to just fuck eachother. But both parties are too socially retarded to even try so youll both act retarded on the internet in the spare time you have instead of building productive white families. Good goys.
>>79723794
Let's see
>Socialism/Communism
>Diversity based economy
>Oppression based social sphere and chronic escapism in individual psychology, extremely poor 'creative' outputs
>Gender and race used as a foundation for education
VS
>Conservative and capitalist
>Ability and work valued in economy
>Freedom of thought and debate in social sphere, individuals read statistics and wide ranging news articles. Memes competently made on photoshop, pro trump memes reaching near superhuman levels of artistic genius
>Value science and skills in education
Nope.
>>79729354
>>79725296
Who is this sexy girl
>>79734027
I know what they're doing, but it doesn't make it right. If I'm the last sane person on earth, I'm still the last sane person, sanity is not statistical in fact it's functional.
>regardless ... history
Yes, this is how I'm arguing the world is insane: their hubris has lead them to believe their position against others in history is unimportant, that their entire state of mind is a bubble that won't be judged against everything else throughout history when they're dead.
They are deliberately resisting a form of renaissance as the higher standards offends them. No. I'll argue until you actually do believe I'm insane that history is all that's important in defining standards.
Art objectively sucks.
Politics is objectively insane.
I'm objectively right.
>>79734380
If you haven't realised the Jews are just the regular scapegoats, you're just as uneducated as the people I'm fighting.
>>79734686
>you're just as uneducated as the people I'm fighting
You are correct
>>79723794
Yes. The constant hate Libertarianism gets here is evidence of that.
/pol/ has been flooded with boot licking authoritarians who want the state to control every aspect of our social and economic lives.
Far right = anarchy. How many people here are anarchists?
>>79723794
these kind of girls are so fking good in bed, but they are so fking crazy
>>79734147
Not all, because unlike special snowflake BS, they anchor or real definitions and not made up fantasy.
Maps like these help simplify the BS. You can't realistically asses politics with so many individuals on such a individualistic approach, it's a waste of time. Broad cattegories exist for the sake of helping people take decisions that matter, the left-right thing is simply too broad, it becomes obscurantist and easy to manipulate.
Use proper nouns (that mean shit) and correct language and half of the BS is gone.
>>79735118
*Not at all
>>79734686
>scapegoats
Hilarious. It's undeniable the prominent role God's Chosen have played in radical left wing politics and that we would be in a much better position without them around. No one is saying they're an illuminati that's responsible for everything wrong in the world though and no one is saying that white elites are harmless.
Where is the image that describes this?
>Low IQ
Deeply conservative, doesn't understand anything but god and everything is satan without reason.
>Normal IQ
Functional people that vote left because they have the common low paying jobs and are jealous of the skilled.
>Above average IQ
Reasons and sees past emotions of the mainstream left by opposing them.
>High IQ
Intellectuals that love literature about feminism, anti-capitalism, and marxism.
>Insane IQ
Capable of a higher state of thinking and become libertarian philosophers.
>>79735118
>>79735194
I'm not denying that those words have definitions, but I am denying that the average person who identifies with those words actually knows what the definitions are. (in fact, I would dispute that this triangle actually maps everything with respect to each other in the proper way)
There are a lot of libertarians, for example, who don't really understand libertarianism. That is why when someone self-identifies as a libertarian, my gut assumption is that they are a faggot rather than someone who can explain the economic repercussions of their beliefs, or the philosophical underpinnings thereof.
Indeed, it is only when they say that they are interested in decriminalizing drugs or ending support for Israel that it becomes apparent what they believe.
It is easy to make these individual assessments -- much easier than you think -- because if you have a background in history, philosophy, economics, and other liberal arts then there are certain self-evident truths (such as the benefits of free trade) that a person is either for, or against. Those that are against had better have a very good reason, otherwise they should be opposed at all costs.
>>79734890
I used to be a registered libertarian. But now they have gone full open border retard so they are basically the Republicans are demo-lite. What would you have us be when all the parties are pro white genocide ?
>>79734686
George Soros will make you either want to kill yourself or join us. He was a Jew that worked as a served as a servent in Nazi Germany that grew to pathologically hate Hitler so much, Athat he gained the economic and spending power to bring his worst nightmares to life. He is responsible for the immigration crisis, he is the one who fundraises sjw and feminist propaganda machines. He does everything in his power to bring down the west while preserving Israel.
>are "we"
>Trump got the image from a neo-nazi imageboard
>/pol/ is one person
STOP WITH THIS BULLSHIT
EVEN WHEN ALL THE TUMBLRS AND PLEBBIT FAGS GET SCARED OFF THIS PLACE STILL HAS PEOPLE FROM ALL AROUND THE WORLD WITH RADICALLY DIFFERENT VIEWS
>>79723794
Horseshoe theory completely accurate and extends into everything in life. The tough part is correctly defining the spectrum of the idea you are observing.
I believe in political philosophy we should strive for Radical Moderation. I consider paleoconservatism to be a good middle ground with a coherent structure: relatively free markets with some protectionism, values basic human freedoms but still sees value in national identity, restrained foreign policy but willing to intervene when necessary to maintain global stability.
From my point of view gangbangers and cops are two side of the same coin and are just as bad as each other.
t. Anakin
>>79724899
Nailed it. We may be holding out for a Pinochet for the interim but traditionalism is the real red-pill. We wouldn't have to elect a neo-fash if our traditionalist principles hadn't been eroded away by subversive elements.
The shitty/best thing about America is we are missing a monarch/aristocracy but have muh constitution and founding principles in its stead.
The British Empire started to collapse in direct proportion to the weakening of the Crown's sovereign authority and too much democratic rule in the House of Commies which surprise surprise got infiltrated by Jews and Jew sympathizers like Churchill.
Also British economics could have been much more protectionist, particularly for the upperclasses who when hit with economic slumps had to resort to marrying into globalist and even Jewish families.
>>79723794
Depends what you think
>right
and
>left
mean.
Most definitions are inadequate and only boil down to examples. The only consistent definition I've heard is right = hierarchy and left = egalitarianism. In which case, no these things are nothing alike.
>>79735199
Undeniable, yes, but predictable based on their culture and the pathology that it promotes.
>No one is saying they're an illuminati that's responsible for everything wrong in the world though
Bullshit, that's exactly what our vocal minority of Nazis believe.
>>79735871
No, Saudi funded people smugglers are responsible for the migration crisis, how better to turn a profit and subvert the west with their own self congratulatory bullshit about tolerance?
But yes, Soros is funding extreme leftism, he's such a slimey character I'd prefer not to delve into his unique pathology, but I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't far from the average Jewish neurosis of doing anything to prove he's not greedy, tribalistic and power hungry.
>>79736024
Nietzsche said it best, beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster. It seems even more true when these monsters are relatively hard to define and arise in complex, advanced cultures.
>>79736195
In many cases yes and the cop "gang" will become far worse than the current street gangs within our lifetimes
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Gy7FVXERKFE
>>79736024
>skin color = race
This meme again? No one on the Right thinks that melanin levels are the reason why multicultural societies don't work.
And enforcing cultural standards and viewpoints on others is a hardwired part of human nature which will never go away. Deracinated, cosmopolitan hyper-individualism is a pipe dream that can't happen unless we start genetically engineering people to behave like that.
>>79723966
>We have no sacred cows
>Except for Hitler, cuckold porn, and Trump
>>79736494
He is the one that made the plan to allow migration in the first place.
>>79723794
>>79736024
>wants government to enforce their cultural views on society
that applies to everyone
I guess all groups are the same
>>79723794
In a sense yes
Fascists/Nat-Soc is a collectivist ideology and so are the Commies
>>79736494
>Bullshit, that's exactly what our vocal minority of Nazis believe.
No it isn't. You spend too much time reading exaggerations and trolling on /pol/. The alt-right in general has never believed any such thing.
>>79736893
And so are humans, who evolved in collectives. Individualism will only ever go so far.
>>79736893
Commies remove all sense of individualality. Nazis are more like a serfdom.
>>79736893
collectivism will beat individualism everytime because of human nature as social animals that are mostly comfortable with hierarchy and systems over chaos and complete freedom.
Whites are much more individualistic than pretty much all other races yet even we aren't immune to the call of the herd in the right circumstances such as social turmoil and the general shittyness of life. We have to find a balance that works for us and also keep out sub-humans who simply will never reach out level of shared values and goals.
>>79736864
>tfw taking one bullet point out of context and using that as whole counter-argument
>>79734380
what a badass cape
>>79737424
>out of context
how
>>79737241
I agree,I strongly believe that a country based on individualism will never succeed and that we are headed in that direction. Not advocating for a full Totalitarian state but we all need to be moving in one direction under the same banner more or less. The fact that irrelevancies like trans rights and gay marriage got so much discussion on the news is terrifying, literally a bunch of nobodies talking about nothing whilst people in our own country are homeless and starving.
>>79736893
both of which are grounded in hegelian concepts, hence their similarities.
>>79737132
nazis exterminated any and all deemed useless to the state. serfs were comparatively kings.
>>79723794
Yes, far-left and far-right inevitable degenerate into authoritarianism, because you know, the far- part of their name is meant to signify the intolerance for dissenting ideologies.
>>79736588
I agree with you on the hyper-individualism argument and believe human beings will always have a nativist affiliation with their cultural values.
I'm trying to find a way to bridge a sense of shared identity with the reality that there are over 350 million people in the United States of varying cultures. I feel like a modernized Nationalism achieves that: you can enforce cultural values surrounding a nation without demonizing every aspect of individuality (ex: allowing freedom of religion but having a state-sponsored one that is actively funded and promoted)
>>79737735
Nationalism and racial homogeneity is a great place to start. Religion is on the way out no matter how much Chris-chan and Pagans want to larp about it. (((science))) is too politicized and easy to skew to blindly worship the latest study published in Modern Jews in White Coats.
Basically if it works for the Japanese, who are pretty fucking based considering how neutered they are without an active military and nuclear weapons, it can work for anyone. Israel seems to function against all odds due to sheer Rabbi meme-magic and goy-blood matzo by using the same methods.
>>79724061
Good post
>>79735717
"There are a lot of libertarians, for example, who don't really understand libertarianism. "
Stop right there. You are describing 90% of normiedom, they just talk out of their asses, that's it.
And that should never be grounds to take apart definitions and labels, simply because the majority are too dumb to know how to properly use them. Nowhere is this more evident then at the way people butcher language and misuse terms and nouns.
>>79739317
But for the purpose of discourse, especially public discourse, it matters a lot that these terms are effectively meaningless. People are not having academic debates -- they are just applying a label to themselves and putting the burden of comprehending their stance on you.
Even with academics, I'd argue it is easier to just have them explain what they want to DO, not how they want to be identified.
>>79740025
Public discourse is mostly shit and that is why it takes a different kind of person to be a politician. One that knows that most of it is lies and BS but needed because the plebs are clueless.
You are basically committing a fallacy of appeal to numbers.
>>79724899
>>79736233
these are good summaries of essential right-wing thought
fascism is a vehicle by which traditionalism could be restored to a society that has veered into leftist insanity
fascism is not really viable long term
some sort of benevolent monarchy would be ideal
>>79725674
I disagree, the state has everything to do with marriage because religious institutions should be state run
>>79741397
This is rhetoric, not logic. We are talking about the APPLICABILITY of a diagram, be it your triangle or one of the other ones.
I am saying it is not very applicable because people do not adhere to it in PRACTICE. For the fifth time, I would not even trust an academic (in this era) to label themselves correctly. That is because labels are subjective, and I daresay labels are literal faggotry.
Outcomes are the only way to judge.
>>79723794
>horseshoe theory
Yes it is correct.
>>79743901
>Outcomes are the only way to judge.
My man. Empiricism or bust.
>>79725227
>Left and right wing politics are a meme altogether.
>... I am implicitly permitting gay marriage, animal marriage, etc.
Libertarians are just leftist scum who incidentally have impractical ideas about property rights
>>79745755
Care to expound upon that?
>>79745898
Redditors usually don't expound upon snarky oneliners they heard from somewhere else
>>79747400
What's funny is that he is replying to a thread about the inherent meaninglessness of labels with a post almost entirely full of meaningless labels.
I'm just curious what he thinks constitutes an "impractical idea about property rights"
>>79747585
He was probably conflating ancap with libertarian theory, because ancaps have unrealistic ideas
>>79747585
I think he means that the NAP is the single most autistic and nonsensical idea in the history of political philosophy.
>>79748130
>All men are created equal
>>79723794
No. It's braindead reductionist horseshit.
>>79736627
Hitler was an incompetent faggot, cuckold porn is hilarious, Trump is alright.
>>79748220
That's only gotten bad recently. It used to mean that people were equal before God and the law, not flat out HBD denial.
The NAP is worse and leads down some hilarious roads if you try to take it entirely seriously.
No
Only "enlightened" moderates believe it
And crispy is a garbage waifu
>>79723794
Only methodologically. Nazis will kick your teeth in as will the antifa. But for different reasons.
>>79723794
The alt-right isn't far right. DJT is by far the most moderate candidate in the race.
