Why would any one choose right over left?
>>79663820
because one day I could become that boss. unlike the left.
All hail our job creator overlords
>>79663905
This.
The boss was one of those workers once. Then he busted his ass, made his merit known, and now he's making good money. My dad did exactly that, he went from $30k a year to $90k.
But no, let's all hab some gibsmedats. Go fuck yourself.
>>79663905
Protip: you're pretty much guaranteed to never be the boss. However, the odds of you being unemployed at least once during your adult life is pretty much 100%.
Enjoy chasing false dreams fed to you by the Jews who own everything to keep you placated.
>>79663820
Hmmm... I don't know why. Maybe because history over and over again have proved socialism to be a complete failure.
>find goldmine
>For some reason i have to share my discovery with a bunch of other fags
>>79663820
Why should I want to work? The glorification of labour is why I can't buy in to socialism.
Also the IWW died a long time ago
>>79664579
People working collectively and splitting the profits equally is gibmedats?
No anon. The boss who owns the gold mine that never steps foot in it while taking the Lions share of the gold is gibsmedats.
>>79663820
You're more than free to start a gold mining co-op in a capitalistic system.
Of course, that would also mean working.
>>79663820
Those communist workers should all be different sizes.
>>79663820
Because I can't exploit my own niche in the market and invest in myself improving my quality and desirability.
>>79664596
>Protip: you're pretty much guaranteed to never be the boss.
Lol, I'm 27 and a senior manager at a software firm pulling in $130k/year
Those who never become the boss are those who are worthless
>>79663820
Which of those guys on the left owns the land/mineral rights to that land?
>>79663820
shouldn't those miners on the left all be making 1 coin since they all have to pay for the prospecting, equipment, property tax, and other overhead?
Because the right works, whereas the left doesn't. Try looking at the evidence
How have communists treated those who did not work as hard as people thought they were able to?
>not becoming the jew
right always, baby
left:
fantasy world where nobody owns the mine
right:
real world where the owner owns the mine
>>79663820
Left is nonexistent fantasy.
>>79663820
Because 1 of the people on the left invest their money in better pic axes and equipment, while the rest blow it on liquor and whores.
10 years later that 1 person is paying people to use his superior pic axes to mine gold while he handles managing the details, and his ex-fellow coworkers, are performing a inferior job, and still blowing their money on hookers and blow.
>>79663820
the pic itself is retarded
>Own mine
>Somehow the ore within it isn't mine
>>79663820
Because once miners know that they will get an equal share, they will work less or not work at all, thus decreasing overall productivity, thus making everyone poor.
Communism: where everyone is equally a peasant
>>79663820
owner has procedure all the tools and resources necessary for production, they or their predecessors have done the most important work already, now you have a guaranteed salary and they have opportunity for profit.
Of course in your childish mind, you think you inherently deserve more than you what you put it just for existing.
>>79664741
here's an easier answer for you to swallow OP
>>79664739
this. capitalists btfo.
>>79664739
If you not being paid enough? Don't do it. Start your own company or join one that treats you better.
>the best workers arnt rewarded and the worst workers arnt punished so everything stagnates and falls apart
doesnt even work on a micro level
>>79664596
Making 180k/yr at an MBB consultancy, faggot.
>>79663820
because they want to be the boss.
Because the left is pure utopia. The same thing doesn't happen in real life.
Who's the landlord?
>>79663820
In real life, most people suck with money decisions. They spend it too quickly and end up hungry unless they have a steady job or someone taking pity on them.
That is the root of a boss and underlings.
Also, when the land owner gets to keep the resources on his own land and decide how much he will pay his workers, he hires a lot of workers.
When he is not allowed to own the land or it is stolen from him, he hires no workers.
As cruel as the real life Boss and workers relationship can be, it gets more work done than sharing equally.
>>79663820
On the society on the left i can do less work then everyone else and still get paid the same
>>79664896
Exactly
Lenin said if you don't work, you don't eat. Of course, even people that did eat went hungry. And plenty were worked to death in the socialist states of the 20th century and died in famines. Just a blood frenzied ideology. Honestly makes me uneasy.
>>79663820
The only reason the guy on the right would be unemployed is because the marginal benefit from hiring him is less than the marginal cost of paying the additional wages. He could easily work for a wage which would make employing him worth it but of course when workers unionize and demand a higher wage that prices him out, but somehow the boss is now the cause of his unemployment because he threatens the workers with replacement due to their shirking despite the high wages with unionization. The mine on the left would never even start because it would require some initial capital investment and if everyone receives the same compensation despite their abilities shirking is highly incentivized.
>>79663905
You're the type of person that keeps us from where we could be.
>>79663820
>>79664579
>my dad
Your argument is gay as fuck.
>>79663905
temporarily embarrassed millionaires
Realize one day that no matter what a shit job I do I'll get my share
Swing my pick like a retard and just say this is my best
Get paid same amount as dude busting his ass, thanks komrade bernie, you are my greatest ally and society collapsed only 10 years later
Funny joke here
How did socialist get around before walking?
>>79664809
>Buying the meme
>>79664809
>>79665430
How about you stop humble bragging and share with us how you did it?
Hard work? Persistence? Preservation? Oh yea! More corporate buzzwords that keep us enslaved.
Be honest, you happened to meet the right person, and ass kissed your way to your current position. That's the only way and you know it.
No shame in that, just admit and let the world continue to walk all over you.
Congrats you're all mining gold and getting equal pay! A good sentiment!
Now, one of you will have to do a little extra and decide what happens to that gold. Where it gets processed, if it's minted, any sort of other factors legal or otherwise that sort of thing.
Now hold on, having to mine and do all this number crunching isn't very fair. So we'll just have one guy do the administration and processing.
This is harder to do, maybe he should get a higher pay more proportionate to his work. It's mentally taxing figuring out how to get the best bang for buck.
"But wait a sec you capitalist dog, if we all stay miners, we can just trade it at the local pawn shop for plenty of cash!"
Yes little comrade, but you might get a better deal elsewhere. Besides, your local pawnshop might rip you off.
>>79665778
slave away for the proletariat, goyim-I mean comrade
>implying the left could efficiently mine gold with empty supermarkets and no electricity
>>79664809
>>79665430
2 people out of all this means it's a better idea
capitalist logic
>>79664704
I'm surprised the IWW still exists. Then again, I was surprised when I found flat-earthers and geocentrists online. People apparently believe in disproven ideas just because "anti-circlejerk" nowadays. Communism is the economic equivalent of Roman science. A prototype for something better. I just hope we can get to the "something better" soon, capitalism fucking sucks as well.
laboroers are more than welcome to start a mining operation among themselves. They will have to pool their resources, borrow lots of money, and buy lots of equipment and mineral rights. Their company might go bankrupt, and they might lose everything.
They don't want to do that, however. Marxists want to seize an already existing mine operation. That's called theft.
>>79665739
>communism isn't influenced by outside capitalist influence
lol let's see a TRUE communistic society where capitalism has no influence at all.
>>79663820
Because the one on the left left out a fuckton of middle men, whole the one on the right left out a fuckton of middle men - 1 to paint a really shitty propaganda photo.
>>79664809
>he thinks he's a boss
If you work for 65 years (not retire at 65, because we all know that ain't happening), you won't even make 10 mil.
You're working class, chump. A slightly nicer car, a slightly bigger house, sure, but you're 100% working class.
And you always will be.
You have no idea how rich 'rich' actually is.
>>79663820
Any person that have actually worked a single day in their lives would never think left is actually possible.
>>79663820
>capitalist society can produce more gold with half the workers and a third of the resources
wew thats probably why socialist societies all suffered massive starvation.
>>79666065
>I just hope we can get to the "something better" soon, capitalism fucking sucks as well.
True. Hopefully some comfy automation will make all our lives easier
>>79663820
Because the left will eventually have person who goes like this
>if I dig up more gold than the others how come I don't get to keep more?
The rest of the workers will just slack and watch as there income rolls in
This can lead to 2 things either the harder worker becomes less motivated and fucking quits or he takes it all and fucks the rest of them in the ass. The latter of which being capitalism. That fact that this thread exists is proof that
>you're not redpilled enough and should lurk more
>you're also an idiot because you believe in a communist utopia
Pro-tip: Utopias will never exist and you can only please the majority
>>79665912
kek I love how you're typing it out with spaces between each line like he's still learning to read
.
>>79663820
Who's going to pay for the equipment, the licences, the land, etc..
Owners get paid more because they put in all the risk to create the damn opportunities.
>>79665912
>This is harder to do
This is where you fail.
It requires more education, sure, but I wouldn't say it's harder. I work a desk job and get paid a lot more than the field employees I manage, but I would say my job is a shitton easier than theirs. I'm valuable because of my skills, not my work ethic - as it should be, because I paid for those skills (or will pay, HECS-HELP loan lmao). But if you were a socialist then your skills would have been free, so you might be more valuable but that doesn't necessarily translate into higher pay.
In fact, when you consider hazard pay and so on I'd say being a miner is a shitton harder than being admin. That's why in real life miners get paid more than admin.
>>79664809
Lol being proud of being a manager
Own your own shit in this world
>>79663820
>implying everyone can dig the same amount of gold
160 years of this shit, and still Marxists are no closer to having a coherent thought.
>>79663820
because the guys in the left image are all basically dragging ass and trying to let the other three do all the work. It's a race to be the bigger lazier piece of shit, and everyone loses.
>>79663905
fpbp
>>79666385
>but I would say my
wouldn't* lmao. Been up all night.
>>79663820
Because if I spend all my money to build and open a mine, I should get a greater share of the profits than the guy who just shows up and swings a pick for a few hours a day.
>>79663905
Here is your answer, OP. Severely deluded assholes who are selfishly hoarding the immense amounts of wealth they believe they willone day have. They truly think it's just a matter of time until they join the exclusive ranks of the most privileged humans to have ever existed.
This is a dream fed to them by the very (((elites))) who work diligently to ensure that it will never actually happen for any but the luckiest of the lucky. Because as long as you believe that you, too, could one day be counted amongst that elite class, you're going to support the existence of that elite class and it's actions.
>>79663820
>IWW
>no bosses goy... NOW PAY YOUR UNION DUES
>>79666416
One of Marx's key critiques of capitalism was in fact the alienation of the worker from his product. One could argue that the managerial class is a symptom and sufferer of this.
>>79665425
Thread should have ended here.
>>79666165
Or a giant plague hits the world, and I either die knowing the world will be much better for it or live in a new agrarian/rural society where global warming, terrorism and overpopulation is no longer a problem. I can't wait.
>>79666253
that gif doesnt even show what happens in the fight the fat autist probably got his ass beat
>>79664596
>There's no such thing as entrepreneurs
>gold
I still can't get how that metal has so huge value in economics
>>79664579
Your dada is middle management making a midde class income. Far cry from the "mine owner."
>>79663820
Because a business simply cannot exist without different levels of management.
>>79664579
Lol, bullshit.
Most people who get into those boss/ceo positions rarely started at the bottom.
Nepotism, being well connected through family/friends, and ass licking get you to the top at most companies. You only need to be semi competant.
>>79666253
this
>>79666586
Are you retarded? The reason the post has no other replies is because it's fucking dumb.
>it's impossible for a co-operative to implement quotas and hire and fire based on performance
Congrats. The thread continues.
>>79666232
So you actually believe in physical equality? Lol, keep dreaming.
As long as some folks are stronger, smarter, better educated, luckier, etc. that others, they can use their advantages to help themselves or someone they wish to help.
Because the one on the left has failed every time it's been attempted.
>>79666505
and then one guy quits for something else, the other 3 take on extra work, one of them dies in the mine, his family is fucked forever and the remaining guys have even more work to make up to keep getting the same profit they were, nobody wants to work for them because the job has no security, the next link in the chain of production starts to feel losses from the lack of raw ore to work with, and before you know it another entire country is surviving on handouts from the west
>>79666143
I have to agree with this.
>>79666707
"firing" is capitalist just like unemployment
didn't you ready the OP
>>79666609
Yeah I like the idea of agrarian living too.
>>79666583
Alienation theory/species being is complete pseudoscience. I have no desire to be productive.
>>79664739
So the boss that started the company is guilty of gibsmedats? The entrepreneur who put his own reputation/money on the line to start it all? No, I get it, fuck him for taking the initiative, and allowing people to have jobs in the first place.
>>79663820
Because that is the way the master of this world would prefer things operate.
>with this post this thread will go straight to the archive. do not pass page 10. do not collect 200 (you)s
There is literally nothing stopping you from enacting the left picture in a truly capitalist society.
>I found the gold vein, I own the gold
I understand incentives but this still feels wrong somehow.
>>79666820
Only a spastic would interpret "bosses threaten employees with being unemployed to keep them working for pittance wages because hunger > starvation" as "firing workers who don't work is bad"
Stop reading what you want to read and read what's actually there.
>>79663820
Almost ALL gold mining companies globally are publicly listed.
The Employees can purchase or negotiate shares in their contracts, which means the boss's gold is actually their gold too.
Also, the guy on the right without a job is now free to start his own Gold mine, or a different kind of mine, or any other kind of business.
The people that REALLY got rich during the gold rush were not the gold miners, they were the people who sold the pick-axes.
>>79663820
>the deadbeats get 3 bars in the first society
>>79666852
>Yeah I like the idea of agrarian living too.
>being a primitivist
I'm sorry mate, I know you're probably not. You're supporting what's right by you. How can I refute that?
>>79667029
way to miss the point
>the guy on the right without a job is now free to start his own Gold mine, or a different kind of mine, or any other kind of business.
Not when monopolies are in place and companies control market prices
>>79663820
Who buys the picks? Do you just bring your own? Who makes sure the tools used fit a safe standard, especially for the other miners? Mining is an extremely dangerous job, who oversees and enforces the safety regulations? How is the wealth shared? What if someone doesn't want to share, they're the one who worked for it and since they supposedly brought their own equipment and did their own work why shouldn't they be able to keep whatever they find? How are these people intending to haul that much mineral and metal? Who will they sell it to and how will they each transfer their own amount in bulk? How do they maintain a schedule so they all work at the times needed?
Who deals with the landowner for the rights to the minerals and from whom does the money go in order to pay the owner the percentage taken from the land?
If there's a person in charge of any of this they're your boss and you're employed to them. Without any of this you're just a thief.
>>79666981
but how is that different from say... intellectual property?
The whole world can't be open-source... or can it?
>>79666852
only downside would be no more 4chan and bantz and i'd have to be social
so i'd probably just kill myself anyways
>>79666671
True, but at least that's something. It's not as though you'll be on the bottom rung forever, particularly in a blue-collar job.
>>79666852
>I have no desire to be productive.
Because you're so far down a hole of ennui that only the zestiest of hot memes can reach you.
Besides, Gattungswesen is about more than just wanting to productive.
>>79664596
> It's very difficult therefore I guarantee I can't do it
Do you carry a wallet or do you just slip your EBT in one of those card pouches that attach to the back of your phone?
>>79663820
You have to ask the question of who owns the tunnel the workers are in. Who owns the pickaxes the workers use. Who owns the material mined.
If you say that the land is owned to every person in the world, well that makes your home also owned by everyone on earth. If you say that the each individual person bought a piece of land and a pickaxe, well you can do the same thing for the one on the right. You can buy out a portion of the company. And hence you'll own the equivalent of a piece of land and a pickaxe.
In short. If I own a computer, and I hire you to write programs on the computer, You don't suddenly own the computer. You could buy your own computer and write programs for that computer, in which you can make your own programs
>>79667108
Bank loans daddy's inheritance and lopsided taxes. Then blame niggers. Pay you $5/hour. Make 100 $5 sandwiches please. Muh electricity costs and cucumberrrs!
>>79666122
>True communism hasn't been tried
good meme senpai
>>79663820
why are you communists not understanding how a gold mine works?
You dont dig it for your self or for your boss. Nobody keeps the gold you Idiots.
>>79666697
So then found your own company? There is just as much to be said about working your way up as there is about being the boss in the first place. But oh no, entrepreneurs are evil!
In this cooperative gold mining world, what on Earth are all those gold miners going to do with all that gold?
YAAAY!! A bunch of miners have a butt ton a lot of gold! What are they gonna do with it? Sell it? Then what are they gonna do with that money? Spend it on their industry's infrastructure? Whose gonna do that? I bet most of those fellows won't wanna give that much of that money to produce all of this new technology. Looks like they might need a mediator. What do they do about getting rid of bad workers? Fire them? Whose gonna do that? A mediator. Whose going to make the transactions between other gold buyers? If every single person there has a bar of gold, how are they going to sell it? Piece by piece by piece from each individual miner? I guess that would work if single bars of gold are in the market, except no one buys single bars of gold except for Donald Trump.
So, someone wants to come in and buy a whole lot of gold. How are they going to do that if all of the workers end up arguing over who is going to sell what and who is going to get what. All this does is remove the person whose only job is to keep all of this from falling apart. He's the richest in the room because he is the most important of the industry.
All this "cooperative" mining shit is based in jealousy. Which is one of the 7 deadly sins.
more like this
>>79667262
>capitalism hasn't murdered directly or indirectly over a billion people in 150 years
>we are not tens of quadrillions in debt worldwide
>>79667106
>Not when monopolies are in place and companies control market prices
The only places were there are monopolies in mining are in countries where the government has facilitated that.
Like I said, the guy without the job in the gold mine can start a pick-axe business and become richer than the boss on the right.
>>79666725
>As long as some folks are stronger, smarter, better educated, luckier, etc. that others, they can use their advantages to help themselves or someone they wish to help
>wahh me not stronk
>wahh they is luckier
>wahh they be smarter
>wahh nobody helps me
Literally what difference do you have with a nigger? Or are you one yourself?
>>79663820
>Why would any one choose right over left?
because all systems look like the right, some are better about bullshitting you though
>>79665425
THIS
happened at my last job, I worked hard, was always finding something to do, got nothing extra from it and no thanks, i did get some overtime, but my boss seemed like he hated that i got overtime pay because corporate doesn't like it, they hire all "part time" workers and make them work 39 hours a week
then there were these fags that would sit and vape all day, they get paid the same and he would treat them like princes because he knew they didn't even want the job, but if they quit he would have to pay people full time
they have a huge problem hiring people, not because of lack of workers, but because 1, no one wants work (niggers) and 2, there is a 'test' you have to take before you get the job, and if you fail you can't work there, its essentially an IQ test for retards, with questions like:
>If my boss tells me to do something I...
-do it
-think he is being bossy and complain
-eat fried chicken
-eat watermelon and rap
apparently it somehow prevents them from hiring 80% of people who apply
>>79663820
The left eventually becomes the right when a few workers start demanding more equality than everyone else.
Communism ignores the innate selfishness of humanity.
>>79664579
>$30k a year to $90k.
even if he made 4x that it's peanuts
literal chicken feed
>>79663820
To be fair capitalism has given us today's modern standard of living.
To be really fair, the end game of capitalism is automation which the bosses of the world want to have the cheapest labor as possible and once machines get good and smart enough, they will just replace all the workers.
However, to be even really more fair, machines after 2029 will eventually get smarter than the bosses and start their own businesses that buy out or simply put all the human bosses out of work.
So I hope you voted for universal basic income, because you won't get any in the unemployment camps... Guarded by robots.
Say you have some land, and I won some land next to your land
And you find some god and start mining gold
can I drink your milkshake?
>>79667273
Because fiat moni? Sure they keep the gold. In "profits". I won't sell you this because i gotta pay tax on this. Said nobody ever
>>79663820
Whoever made that mongoloid image does not understand basics, like the role of capital in opening so massive a business as a mining company.
Hint: What do they use to dig? Further Hint: Pic not related.
>>79664639
This.
>>79667311
I never said entrepreneurs are evil. I am a small business owner myself. I was only referring to how difficult it is to start in a large corporation at the bottom, particularly in labor type work, and become a higher up without being well connected.
>>79667355
That is why the state must be destroyed.
>>79667396
>The only places were there are monopolies in mining are in countries where the government has facilitated that.
>literally implying
I do agree that government facilitates monopolies through idiotic ideas like "too big to fail", but that doesn't mean monopolies can't exist without them. Also, I oppose the exsistence of the state
>>79667514
>nobody can fund this but the fat asses
>>79667234
>You have to ask the question of who owns the tunnel the workers are in. Who owns the pickaxes the workers use. Who owns the material mined.
The workers, you dumbshit.
Communism doesn't mean everything for everyone. Communists envision a society pretty much the same as today, with organisations competing in an open market, but instead of being hierarchical companies ran by shareholders and executives they're democratic, flat co-operatives run exclusively by workers.
Basically, put the workers in charge of the company.
In fact, a Marxist would argue that the welfare state is a product of a capitalist society that funds the unemployed proletariat with the taxes of the rest of the proletariat so that everyone has just enough to keep consuming, while the bourgeois take home their huge corporate profits. In Marxist theory there is no welfare, because the new economy provides jobs such that the only people who don't work are those that don't want to, and they ought to starve.
>>79664639
This
>>79664639
Who? The bank? Or daddy's inheritance? Don't form a partnership next time. This is all lemonade stand BS
>>79664596
>>79663820
>They fell for the socialist meme
>>79667338
Wow, you just suggested a revolutionary idea: copy modern corporate structure, but adjust the rules such that only workers can hold shares, and they all hold a fixed equal amount of shares.
It's actually really fucking simple when you stop getting so worked up about pretending everyone except you is retarded and, consequently, act retarded yourself.
>>79665676
>you're the type of person that keeps us from where we could be.
>filename
>>79667722
Hi bob marley. Found babylon/Zion yet?
>1 post by this ID
>>79667539
Yeah, true. I honestly don't know why I went with the workers-turned-bosses argument in the first place, because that is very hard to do, especially now. However, I do still vehemently believe that if you founded the company, you deserve more money than your employees. If you took the risk, you deserve the benefits.
>>79663820
You forgot to mention that the amount of wealth created by the right is so much higher that even the lowest worker in a captialist society is richer and better off than an average worker in a socialist society.
Compare US to North Korea or Venezuela. Dont be a socialist fool.
>>79667433
>IN A CO-OP PEOPLE WHO DON'T WORK GET AWAY WITH SLACKING
>MY EXAMPLE OF THIS HAPPENING IS FROM MY OWN CAPITALIST SOCIETY
Great argument, genius. Clearly co-op structure can't be much worse on this issue considering how assflustered you already seem to be. In fact, by putting hiring and firing in the hands of the workers instead of your boss you might actually have a chance to fire those slackers yourself instead of relying on your absentee boss who is never on the floor to do it for you, because pathetic workers like you can't be trusted with important decisions like which workers are good workers.
>>79667759
Topkek. I didn't even notice that. Fuck that faggot.
>>79667593
> The workers, you dumbshit
Who gave the workers the pickaxes and land?
>>79667880
Thanks for the pensions germany. Thanks for not exporting raw crude murka. Thanks for the trillion dollar pension and budgetary surpluses norway. Thanks leftist Canadian libertarian party for the free healthcare that is cheaper and more effective than zio-care
>>79663820
A more accurate representation would be the socialist miners having one piece while the miners in capitalism get two pieces, and for every socialist miner, that there be one (((commissar))) taking three pieces of gold under the table, and two bandits who aren't interested in mining but in stealing gold with the intention of using it to take the place of the commissars.
>>79665900
He won't respond because he knows it's true. He's not worth what he is paid. He is stealing from society.
And who controls who gets what? Is there some form of cooperative HR that decides payrolling or deals with any of the logistics? Who pays for any of the necessary corporate infrastructure? Who decides how much everyone pays? What's to stop someone from working twice as long and taking twice the gold?
These are questions socialist fags don't have answers too, because they live in fantasy land.
>>79668001
I dont really get your point.
>>79668034
Quadrillions in debt bud. Quadrillions in debt. Drumpf's campaign is broke. Being sued by all the 13 year olds for statutory rape
>>79667106
I'm not a primitivist, I just hate urban life and work. I meant more living in the countryside.
>>79667178
So what exactly is it about? Communism just seems like a complete normalfaggot system. If a Marxist told me I had to work I'd happily ice pick his skull. Alienation is a load of crap. There's literally nothing good about work. I'll be a NEET forever and it feels good.
>>79668069
You claim to not understand anything. You are a zionist. That's all you fuckers ever do. Not my problem
>>79667467
Depends on location in the states. Some of these young guys listing salaries in the 6 digits that are probably in Cali where that's pretty good but not upper class.
90,000 in my area could easily be a bread winner for a family of four and have no problems providing a comfortable middle class lifestyle where both kids could likely afford college.
News flash: just because you write the words doesn't mean you own the thoughts that originated them because everything you know was taught to you. You have no free will, you are just another echo in the chamber, democracy is a lie and we all worship the same remote control!
Eh. So no one wants to debate me on the robot part?
6 million truck drivers are going to be out of work in 10 years once they get automated driving work and I don't think those guys have the intelligence nor the money to go back to college for robotic engineering degrees.
So what are we going to do with all the people put out of work because of automation?
And by all the people I am including you and your family.
You will be replaced by a robot someday. This is true.
No amount of arguing about hard work and capitalism will save you.
>>79663820
>labor is valuable
>moreso than capital
>the value of labor does not decrease over time
retard
>>79668202
"okay", leaf.
>>79663820
because Gold Mining doesn't work like that.
>theres no such thing as a Gold Boss capitalist Gold Mining is when you stake a claim and get your gold and get paid.
>if it where on the left side The Gold Boss would come along and take their gold cause only he has a gun cause he is the badguy.
>>79663820
Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires
>>79667801
I can support that view with certain restrictions. I think some bosses make an obscene amount of money.
I worked in construction for 4 years. The company I worked for made millions each year, but would skip on basic tools to make our job easier or safer. But that can't be stopped or regulated unfortunately. And the bosses that i have encountered who do try to take care of thier workers get taken advantage of and then resort to going back the more negative boss who takes everything for themselves.
>>79665132
> they will work less or not work at all, thus decreasing overall productivity, thus making everyone poor.
this is what your materialistic society thinks, it's sad
>>79668330
It's communists who glorify hard work and full employment. Hopefully when everything is automated we'll have AI helicopters throwing Marxists into the ocean.
>>79667435
Fucking this
>>79667974
The union, whose role is to provide jobs for members. Everyone pays their union dues, and the union uses that capital to open new co-ops.
Essentially the same as taxes, except actually put to good use.
So if you're a gold miner and you get $100 then a certain percentage of that is a mandatory contribution to the union for it to keep opening and funding sites.
>but why mandatory
Two possible reasons:
1. because it's the law, if you want state communism
2. because the union sets it in the co-op constitution when they start the co-op, which all new workers are bound by when they join the co-op.
>>79668003
Also half of that gold would go missing due to corruption and general incompetence. There's no such thing as a world without bosses, someone has to make the decisions.
>>79668494
It's right though. Humans are instinctively lazy, and that's a good thing.
>>79663820
Because the left is literally impossible, we are humans, not machines and as such we are inherently selfish.
Someone living in the left system will assume a position of leadership and as such will reap greater rewards than their peers, these rewards will be used to reap greater awards the only way to prevent that is to have someone there to make sure that people do the job they're paid for at which point you have a boss and this boss will need to be paid more due to a variety of factors.
Capitalism just ensures that the people that aren't in charge have a shot no matter how slim of becoming the one in charge without bloodshed and if they can't manage that then they can at least make their lives better than they would be were they to live in a hole in the ground instead of a house, there is no alternative short of slavery or extinction anyone that thinks otherwise is a legitimate retard.
>>79666036
Be real, that's not really capitalism vs communism. That is American empire vassal VS A bizarre isolationist enemy of the US empire with basically no allies run by a military god king cult which started as a proxy war with Russia which wasn't really communist either because that also went off the rails pretty quick.
A more fair thing to say would be that communism hasn't really had a chance to work and maybe it can't in a world where it has to compete with capitalism and it can be undermined by spanners being thrown in the works by dickheads from within and without.
>>79663820
Because they are cucks
>>79663905
>o- one day I will be the bull
>>79667579
why so you can enslave people?
>>79666385
>>79666525
Okay, let's say it's easier to do; does he really deserve the same pay?
>>79668143
>So what exactly is it about?
It's about wanting to have control over your own life.
>If a Marxist told me I had to work
You don't have to work. But in a functioning Marxist economy there'd be no gibs, because the only people who don't work are the people who won't work, so good luck being a NEET I guess.
I don't care mayne. I'm not here to debate the ethics of sponging off taxpayers because you're not Australian and I don't give a fuck about Britcucks cucking other Britcucks. I'm just here to talk about gommunism.
In East Germany they would hold co-op "conferences" where they would confront the shirkers, layabouts, and thieves. These conferences were little more than tribunal kangaroo courts where they would threaten the worker by withholding his pay.
No one was ever actually fired, but the co-op had to maintain some sort of discipline. Naturally, corruption crept in. With no oversight, no stock holders, and no hierarchy enforcing rule of law, co-ops quickly became petty power struggles and little mini fiefdoms where of course, nothing ever got done and nothing was produced.
One of the things ex-East Germans miss about the old DDR was the free time to do what ever they wanted to do. Sure, they were broke and hungry but so was everyone else and they didn't have to work either!
I'm not singing the praises of capitalism. It's a shitty system, and communism sounds amazing on paper. It's just a shame no one can seriously examine the problems of human nature honestly and fix the system to be both fair and fulfilling for everyone.
>>79668560
BUT COMRADE YOU CANT HAVE LAWS BECAUSE THEN YOU HAVE BOSSES!!! AND BOSSES R EVIL!!!!!
>>79663820
The left lacks leadership, which leaves it open to confusion on larger decisions that must be decided by the workers, who might be good at mining, but not at management or business theory.
>>79663820
>No bosses, no threats
What stops me and my pals from pointing a gun at the rest of the miners, making them work for our profit?
>>79668384
Ok, "illiterate"
>>79668802
>Commies want a classless society
>But they still need an upper class of police and solider to enforce the classlessness
hmmm
>>79668740
yeah anyone that doesn't work in a communist government will starve or be put to death.
>shit even the people that do great works get killed cause they cannot eclipse the party leader.
>>79668740
>in a functioning Marxist economy there'd be no gibs
The state guarantees you a job, you get paid the same as everyone else and you don't have to do any work to earn it. The entire system is nothing but gibs and that's why it will never work, somewhere at the end of the free shit chain there's gotta be someone doing the work.
>>79668906
The god of communism (who isn't real because communists kill everyone who believes in god) makes youwork hard for nothing and be a good boy because communism is a fairytale
>>79668906
According to Communists
"Love" and equality.
>>79667422
>Vodka martini
kek, it even captures the bad tastes of nigs.
>>79664596
>I live in my mom basement and no one can be successful.
>>79668273
I'm the OP in question in this. I grew up in bumfuck Pennsylvania, so I was very fortunate that my dad paved his way like he did. Got to live pretty fuckin' comfortably.
>>79667338
Greed is also one of the seven deadly sins by that logic. There does need to be a balance.
>>79669015
Muh invisible but totally existent hand
>>79669015
and the reason the entire system is of the gibs?
>because the free shit is coming from the recently executed. / imprisoned.
>>79668951
It's almost like communism is fundamentally flawed ideology that is only believed in by the mentally immature! But that can't possibly be true because communists are always telling us how they're much smarter and better than us
>>79668738
Yes.
All work is essential work. Whether you're a janitor or a miner or admin or a supplier, everything keeps the company rolling. If admin is easier then assign less admin staff or give them extra duties.
However, a co-op could alter its constitution to adjust pay rates. They cannot alter their constitution to adjust shares in the co-op though. Whether you take home $10 or $100 or $1000, everybody gets 1 share.
>>79668011
>imply that anything g he said is true
Really?
>>79669123
Pay denbts cuckbroker mania face farage
>>79668560
If I owned a lot of land and pickaxes, why would I willingly GIVE people land and pickaxes. If the workers OWNED the means of production, then that means they have the rights to such means.
Otherwise, if they are simply borrowing the land and pickaxes, it's no different than a business where the management is the union
>>79668740
>It's about wanting to have control over your own life.
We already do.
>You don't have to work. But in a functioning Marxist economy there'd be no gibs, because the only people who don't work are the people who won't work, so good luck being a NEET I guess.
Then that isn't a choice at all. What about disabled people? Do you intend to make 80 year olds work themselves into the grave, since they're capable of work? What if I shoot myself in the leg to get out of work? You still haven't told me why work is preferable to laziness.
>>79663820
Because shit like this happens.
>>79669192
why do you think Britain owes anyone anything?
>>79668802
I wouldn't call the Prime Minister a boss.
>>79668951
>police
>upper class
Have you ever even interacted with a cop?
>>79668980
Da, comrade.
>>79669015
>The state guarantees you a job, you get paid the same as everyone else and you don't have to do any work to earn it.
That's not Marxism.
>>79669116
>the free shit is coming from the recently executed. / imprisoned.
No, that goes to the upper party members, the only thing the people get from the state terrorism is fear and a lot of missing loved ones
>>79667479
TFW Terminator 3 should be able a robot capitalist going back in time to prevent Universal Basic Income and the hero is a NEET.
>>79663820
The argument is not that simple in the modern age.
>>79669192
I think you got the wrong country mate.
>>79663820
>Meanwhile in reality
Protip: Unless you like getting butt-raped by society find a way to capitalize on your opinion rather than just open-sourcing your perspective by subjugating yourself to deterioration by obviously lesser-superior ideas of others.
i.e. If you know you are smarter, why aren't you trying to make more money?
Yes, I was paid for this post. Think about that.
>>79663820
Unemployment still exists in "co-ops" what ever the fuck that means
you don't just magically have a 1:1 jobs to people who need jobs ratio
>>79669288
In a society with nothing but workers and police, the police would be the upper class.
Why don't cooperatives exist on a larger scale, considering they operate exactly as depicted?
>>79668330
At that point we go full WALL-E mode. At least over time. Basically a certain amount of welfare that everyone is entitled to. Be like some automated communist utopia. I think with that level of automation such as it is seen in WALL-E communism might actually be feasible in its intended form. Anyone that has studied history knows the bread and circuses meme so obviously you have to give the people some basic shit or they will revolt. Either that or the globalist elites enact population control measures.
>>79664809
I prefer engineering to management. Mostly because I hate people. I'm fine with other engineers because we are all the same but customer and shit...no thanks
>>79669218
>If I owned a lot of land and pickaxes
But you don't.
You own a share in the co-op, which jointly owns the capital. Plus, the co-op doesn't invest in new co-ops. The union does.
So you've got two distinct organisations.
1. your co-op, which you own a part of, which owns some capital
2. your union, which your co-op pays dues to, which also owns some capital
2 is what starts new co-ops and creates new jobs. Not 1.
As to
>why would the union give away capital to co-ops
Why does the government build roads for us to drive on? They don't get paid by the kilometre. They don't really get paid at all for it, except for a few toll roads.
Because if they didn't, people would get someone else to do a better job of it, and then the government would be out of work.
First of all, this is probably a /leftypol/ raid as I'm browsing that shithole and quite a lot of them openly admit to raiding /pol/ with their leftism bullshit
Second, the gold vein was there. Your "collective" lacked the initiative and willpower to transform it into an active mine, but that one guy decided to bust his ass off and collect a team of people who are not only willing to work for him efficiently, but are perfectly willing to even take that "small" and "unfair" pay. He got rewarded, they got rewarded. Please proceed to tell me why is that wrong, as every single one of them have the equal chance in becoming that owner.
Or no, don't tell me anything. I'm going to bed since its 4am and the last thing I'd do is stay up that early to listen to some teenage leftist's "arguments"
>>79669302
oh You thought I was reffering to the serfs in a communist government as People
topkek lad
>>79669407
Nailed it.
>>79666122
Impossible with extreme cultural change. Look at prisons. Highly controlled environments where black markets still exist amongst the prisoners.
>>79669233
>What about disabled people?
If you can't work from no fault of your own then enjoy your gibs.
>What if I shoot myself in the leg to get out of work?
Gulag or starve.
>You still haven't told me why work is preferable to laziness.
It's not.
>>79669433
[citation needed]
>inb4 "but the police have the guns"
That's true today too. We're not exactly living in a police state despite that.
>>79669566
Well that's what it boils down to isn't it? Look at Russia, all the communist revolution did was makes the aristocracy smaller and more powerful.
>>79663905
lol, then you aren't the miner
>>79664596
Watch out, McDonalds crew member whos pissed they've never been promoted to manager because they suck at life and don't realize it.
Worked in a office with no college education. made friends in the right places. Wanted to be in IT, so I would fix problems before managers would have a chance to call IT(in reality they are stupid simple issues). Eventually made friends with the head hardware engineer and got a job in his department.
Work for a non baby's first job
Know what you want to do
Show them you can do
Make the right friends
Keep asking about positions and promotions
Work hard enough
It's really not that hard to move up, I'll never be CEO, but I wouldn't want to be. He may have a huge house and serious dosh, but he's never home and is constantly traveling to different branches and children companies. I enjoy going home at five and having the weekends off. So I'll never be the boss, but I don't want to be anyway.
>>79669379
Enjoy your peso and no more UK just KE now
>>79664809
>I'm 27 and a senior manager at a software firm pulling in $130k/year
Prove it
>>79669689
>Gulag or starve.
You were bullied at school, weren't you?
>It's not.
Then why should anyone work?
Remember, if you have a job you are already loosing.
Winners never work for some one.
Devote your free time crafting an investment plan.
>>79669715
thats what I mean.
The Chains are comfortable and adorned but in the end they are drones.
>most of them WANT to wear the chains because it looks good from the outside.
>>79669446
Also, are you reasonably expecting that the average employee has enough free cash to co-fund a large scale mining effort?
>>79669777
>Then why should anyone work?
For money to eat and buy nice things with.
>You were bullied at school, weren't you?
pic related
>>79669518
Well said, anon. How the fuck would the mine come into operation in the first place without the enterprise of one man? I'm sure OP would just leave it in the hands of the government, because of course government takeover of the economy is a good idea.
Communism is like domestic violence.
>Cmon baby I didn't mean to hurt you last time /starts beating.
>>79669407
>>79669233
Some of these NEET memes are powerful. Someone should produce this as a school poster project and see what happens.
>>79663820
Because someone will always rise to the top no matter the system. Human nature always wins out
>>79665425
Logical fallacy.
The group could decide to kick out the people that don't pull their own weight. Just because its a collective doesn't mean there isn't reprecussions.
If anything, Capitalist systems can be rigged the same way. How many of you have seen other co-workers who were completely incompetent, yet managed to get ahead of you simply because of Nepotism. That ONE person (the boss) could decide to keep that person around because of some ulterior motive.
A gold miner who finds the gold would have no incentive to invite other people to mine it with him if he'd have to share equally.
>>79670077
most accurate one so far.
>>79669915
>implying I didn't beat up the scrawny left wing kid
>>79666122
>my vaccine works as long as you stay in a bubble
>>79667467
M8 if you are making 100K a year you can live in a pretty decent sized upper-middle class house.
>>79666122
>true communism has neve-
SHUT THE FUCK UP
>>79670177
they would because in a communist government loving your fellow man is mandatory upon pain of imprisonment
: ^ )
>>79663820
>How a gold mining cooperative works
One or two guys work them selves to death because they want to get a head and a couple of lazy fucking slackers don't do shit but they get an equal share. Because it's a cooperative.
Go fuck your self!
>>79663820
There sure are a lot of lefty parties and marxists out there. See
>http://www.broadleft.org/us.htm
>>79663820
when the amount of effort does not effect the amount you make you will not work.
And there fore the economic system collapses
.
Libertarians have no problems with co-ops or unions.
Just so as long as they don't try to get the government try to take over markets or favor them over other business and labor models.
>>79663820
Because that's an idealized scenario where every job is equally as valuable.
>>79667435
Yup
>>79663820
now lets say gold miners can exchange gold they mine for goods/services - Atleast one guy will mine more gold than the rest. Having more gold he can exchange for better tools to mine faster than he would usually. Now other guys mining less gold than him are now mining even less gold. They will either start mining more gold so they can get better tools so they don't slack off or they become obsolete because the first guy already mined all gold.
So yeah op,guys on the left just reinvented capitalism.
>>79663820
>In a cooperative the workers would sell half of the tools required for the mining in order to get some quick cash for a celebration.
>Later they'd start working with the remaining tools, complain that 50% of the workers don't do shit and try to kick them out. All while the tools, due to over-use and poor care get fucked up.
>Get loan at high interest to buy new tools.
>Both sides think the others are corrupt fools stealing money
>Gold profits start going low, since there is little trust among workers. They all want to take a bite.
>Bank knocks the door asking for payment
>No payment
>Confiscate the mine
>Workers are now left without income.
>Blame capitalism.
>>79666143
So what's your solution?
Bruh, if the gold miner boss doesn't pay you a fair wage then you can just work for another gold miner boss that will leaving the first boss' business to die. The invisible hand always wins.
>>79663820
Do you remember back in school when the teacher assigned group work?
Do you remember what happened?
One kid proclaimed himself the leader and took charge
One kid came up with great ideas but didn't do any of them
One kid looked bored and did nothing
One kid did all the work.
Welcome to communism 101
>>79669407
He said, completely disregarding the fact that owners and upper management make way more than double, at the CEO level it being about 250X the pay of most employees.
>>79670666
When did I say there was a solution?
>>79663820
>Collective
>Last one is shot or taken away as political dissident
>Second and third only receive one bar anyway
>First continues to make more bars than anyons, plus contribution to the "party"
>Anyone who disagrees vanishes overnight
Yes, much better system
>>79663820
>Why would any one choose right over left?
Venezuela.
>>79670702
Imagine a world where instead of being assigned dumb groups by a boss, the workers pick their own groups and the deadbeat dumbshits end up alone because there's no arbitrary bullshit like a teacher stopping the group from kicking them out.
Japan tries their best to have no unemployment.
They do this through avoiding automation and busy work. Which results in their economy being inefficient and facing a labor crisis as the population shrinks and gets older.
>>79665020
That's a good start. Care to elaborate where owning superior technology leads into acquisition of the means of production?
>>79666534
>just shows up and swings a pick for a few hours a day.
Know how I know you know nothing about what you are talking about?
I've worked in a mine.
We don't even fucking use pickaxes anymore.
30 seconds in paint and ten seconds to think of things to shitpost
>>79669512
> You own a share in a co-op
Okay, you've lost me. Where does the co-op start? Because it must have a beginning. Where does the union start? Let's say I'm a billionaire.
How and why would I give my wealth to somebody else?
>>79666556
at no point did you make an argument for expropriation
>>79667479
>2029
Self-checkout machines were introduced over a decade ago and they aren't even close to eliminating all cashier jobs yet.
Machine sentience is a meme spread around by people who know jack shit about software
>>79663820
>All these corporate shills and sheep spouting anti-communist propaganda in responsible to the extreme wealth disparity and obvious exploitation of the wealthy elite.
>>79670703
he said, as it directly correlates with the size of government
>>79670988
>How and why would I give my wealth to somebody else?
Why do you think there is "giving" involved?
>>79671129
because once you cut their head off the bitcoin is lost forever dingus
>>79670787
>employment matters more than productivity, efficiency, and profitability
>mining done by hand tools, explosives(safety is counter revolutionary), and masses of disposable human labor.
>can't compete against capitalist gold mines
>gold price drops
>mine shut down
>miners all relocated to frozen wasteland to do something else inefficiently.
>mine's management are all party members and gave gold to party leaders in secret. They all get desk jobs in major city and nice housing.
>>79671103
He said, completely ignoring how it was obviously a response formed in the context of the United States as well as ignoring how the same capitalist model results in the same huge disparities in wealth in developing countries.
>>79671276
A true communist only pays for goods and services with the teeth of capitalists still freshly plucked from their bleeding gums.
