Lawfag here
This is a case that if it goes through and is upheld will pave the way for speech laws like Europe.
>>79616331
they already did Manson for talking - what's the law say regarding this kinda shit? is encouraging people to an hero covered by the first amendment? legitimately curious, because there are several examples of dudes pressuring each other to kill others or kill themselves
my legal understanding is inadequate
Will judges be able to look back at this case in which she was urging him to kill himself if a case in the future was say only involving "offensive/hate speech?"
>>79616331
We already have regulated speech you fucking idiot.
>Lawfag
AKA some fucking roleplaying know nothing basement dweller
Fuck off
shitty roleplay thread
>>79616331
kill yourself
>>79616617
i'm no expert by any means but I just do not see common law applying to a case that is completely different
>>79616510
>they already did Manson for talking - what's the law say regarding this kinda shit?
You can´t incite to violence in the US, just like you can´t make threats to people´s lives/safety.. If they construe urging someone to kill themselves as inciting violence towards themselves, she might be convicted.
>>79616331
My layperson opinion, is, the prosecution will treat her as someone who yelled fire in a crowded theater.
Legal precedence? IDK
>>79616331
What do you think killed free speech in the US?
Lawfag here,
No, it won't.
>>79616331
no. i read the texts..she talked the kid into it...that was evil.
>>79616769
It's not illegal to yell fire in a crowded place. You might raise a few eyebrows, but if you're the only retard screaming, you will be escorted out and barely anyone will notice.
This fake analogy needs to die already
>>79616331
typical Masshole
casual observer here
I'm not sure but I'll watch anyways
Well he broke the law, she encouraged and supported him to do it, so i guess she's an accomplice
>>79616331
>Lawfag
Then you'd know that European law is based on civil law and your law is based on common law.
Telling someone to kill themselves online is a bit different than knowing them and texting for months how they need to kill themselves and should.
>>79616331
well let's see, if goes to the supreme court we have:
(a) 3 commie jews (breyer, ginsburg, and kagan)
(b) 1 wise latina that hates whites, only country she's ever visitied is israel, and jews grabbed a hispanic becasue they are the new majaority
(c) kennedy - a white cuck
(d) 3 catholics - thomas, roberts (semi cuck), alito (a poor man's scalia)
you know how the 3 jews will rule (for speech laws of course). likely the latina will rule with the jews.
so the entire balance is usually on the cuck named kennedy
and this is how you should understand how the supreme court makes its decisions
>>79616331
I don't give a fuck about what she did but I hope it's not a zingy sob story that the media blows up so we get our speech taken away.
>>79616331
That's such bullshit. By this standard, literally everyone on 4chan would be liable for a felony every single time we tell someone to kill self.
>>79617093
Anita Sarkeesian says she's been getting kys messages for years.
>>79616510
as far as I know, in the US you're mostly free to tell people to kill themselves/others, but if it actually happens or will happen, because of what you said, you can be held responsible in some cases
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clear_and_present_danger
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imminent_lawless_action
>>79616640
Fucking /thread
>>79616640
Being mean via text
>>79616331
How is that fundamentally different than Facebook or Twitter or any electronic communication.
Is "kill yourself" a deadly phrase ? Illegal phrase. It's pulling the trigger of a gun?
>>79616510
>>79616640
lawfag here.
Fuck everyone in this thread. Especially OP.
>>79616762
She ordered him to get back in the truck when he had second thoughts. Good chance she will be convicted and probably sued afterwards by the kids family for pocketing a fundraiser dedicated to him after he did it.
>>79616640
I said regulated like Europe....learn to read
>>79616331
AHAHAHAHAHAH
We have Hate Speech laws here shitlord
Try beating that
>>79616331
>tell someone to kill themselves
>they actually do it
>get charged with aiding and abetting & involuntary manslaughter (sometimes voluntary)
this has been the case for decades. what precedent is being set exactly?
>>79616769
>My layperson opinion, is, the prosecution will treat her as someone who yelled fire in a crowded theater.
Why would they treat her as an anti war protester?
~
Speak that is likely to cause imminent serious harm isn't protected.
>>79617156
A Hillary presidency really will be the death of the country, wont it?
Strange to think that the American experiment might be finally coming to a close after 240 years. I doubt anyone would have predicted the Jews would be the ones to do it in, but hey, credit where it's due.
>>79617515
Difference between some random nobody on the internet and someone who is a pillar in your life. Also assisted suicide has been illegal no matter what since 2012 so shut the fuck up before you say she didn't break that law in any way.
>>79617450
How could she know he wasn't just roleplaying?
If he held a "how to commit suicide" pamphlet in his hand, sue the author? Charge the author?
>>79617619
Pretty sure you can read the texts online. That's some next level playing.
>>79617515
You're not American
>>79616331
She should be arrested for not having a permit with that forehead
>>79617615
This will apply to all the random nobodies because being a "pillar" isn't measurable evidence.
>>79617669
If proved he went there, Charge the site author....etc.
>>79616331
>killing yourself is not illegal
>encouraging someone to do something that is not illegal is somehow illegal
I'm not a lawyer, but how does that make sense?
I can't make my mind up on this.
She is evil. A total sociopath to do what she did. She deserves...some sort of retribution, I think.
But on the other hand, I can't have too much sympathy for the guy because he was weak enough to allow himself to be talked into it.
I honestly don't know.
>>79617852
can't say the random nobodies were lovers can you?
>>79618084
You can, especially if you're crazy enough to kill yourself over mean texts/tweets/whatev
>>79618232
Nigga what? Pretty sure he wasn't kissing random nobodies and fucking them like he was the girl at some point. She didn't push suicide in the beginning of the relationship.
>>79617673
yes i am
>>79616331
She also had a gofundme page or whatever for her boyfriend's death, then pocketed the $5000 she got from it.
>>79618309
> m-muh feelz
Major difference from being held responsible for offhandedly saying "lol, kill yourself faggot" and a persistent psychological campaign to urge a mentally and emotionally troubled person to off himself.
>>79617450
this, she was a fucking cunt and pressured him into it
>>79618487
Not even feels she broke the law for involuntary manslaughter. If we want feels I'd put her on death row.
The difference is that she talked him into doing it. He wasn't sure at first, but she spent a long time on the phone convincing him to kill himself.
>>79618691
>>79618691
>>79618691
>>79618691
This
Lmao at anyone defending her
>>79616640
this
there are many cases like this that already hold people accountable
if you're actively urging someone to harm themselves or do harm to others, you should expect to face legal consequences
>>79616331
Any speech involving the promotion of death or violence is currently illegal- and should remain illegal. Has nothing to do with ((("hate speech"))). Not sure where the fuck you got your law degree.
This bitch will fry in prison and rightfully so.
>>79617515
you're right, it's just some ignorant roleplayer
>>79618691
> a persistent psychological campaign to urge a mentally and emotionally troubled person
Le Gamergate
>>79618829
thats fucking gay though
charlie manson did nothing wrong
>>79617156
Sotomayor is also a jew
>>79617246
she should listen to them
>>79617233
no, not at all.
stop making outrageous leaps in logic to feel offended.
>>79616331
BC law school grad here - There is no basis for the charge IMO - her behavior does not meet the "reckless" standard but they are trying to make an "example" of her, if she is convicted it will be overturned on appeal after she has done a couple years which is what they want. Or it will be bargained down - either way the prosecutors get their headlines.
>>79618926
i havent been able to confirm. but many think she is a crypto jew - i first heard from brother nathaniel and seen elsewhere around the web. but its just not possible to say with authority
>>79616331
not really this is considered a call to action which isn't protected under free speech
>>79619066
> leaps in logic
You mean /pol/ identifying themselves with the underage loser and gladly signing away their rights in the process like your average sjw
>>79616331
What exactly are you arguing? The First Amendment has always has rare limiters, such as the "clear and present" danger exception from Schenck v. United States (1919) in which Justice Oliver Holmes described the clear exception of "yelling fire in a theatre."
More recently Brandenburg v. Ohio (1969), the Court ended up creating the test that for speech to be ruled illegal it must produce imminent lawless action.
Considering most jurisdictions do consider suicide etc. to fall under that, it seems that this could be argued to that end. So what point, lawfag, are you arguing?
>>79619075
Intent doesn't satisfy the reckless standard in Massachusetts?
this is how it will go
>goes to court
>psycho girl baws her eyes out and "muh feelings"
>court acquiescence because vagina is rare in chambers
>she gets suspended jail time and no money damages
>walks out the courthouse looking for her next Chad or Chahid to jump
case fucking dismissed
>>79616331
If you were actually an American lawfag, you would be aware that Schenk v United States established that the Second Amendment does not apply except with the approval of the government.
There *is* no guarantee of free speech in the USA. SCOTUS decided on that nearly a hundred years ago. Any speech which the executive branch deems unacceptable can be banned - and, in fact, the USA has some of the most heavily regulated media and speech laws in the developed world.
You think that because you can say "nigger" on 4chan that you have free speech? Oh, you poor foolish children. Learn the laws of your own country. Learn just how little freedom you actually have. In the UK, if a cop asks for ID, I can tell him to fuck off and call his mother a cunt. The courts have ruled that this is my right and not an arrestable offence. In the USA, speaking any profanity in public is a misdemeanour in every single jurisdiction of the country and refusing to identify yourself to a police officer is a crime.
If you're an actual lawfag, how come you don't know this?
>>79617554
>>79618926
just to emphasize jew control (as if you didnt know), obama 's supreme court nominee is merrick garland - a left wing commie jew
>>79618789
Just words.
>>79619301
She was charged with involuntary manslaughter - they do not have to prove she intended that he kill himself.
>>79617864
Suicide is illegal here.
>>79618871
Lies -
Christ psychos like her should be put down in my opinion
>>79617864
Suicide actually is illegal.
>>79619383
Imminent lawless action exception: Brandenburg v. Ohio (1969). This is one of the most commonly discussed cases dealing with the First, wtf?
>imprisoning someone for banter
>>79619277
That the Supreme Court overstepped its boundaries by declaring exceptions like the clear and present danger. Somehow "shall make no law" means "shall make some laws."
>>79619301
The question really is what is "reckless"? That is a matter for the fact-finder (jury or judge). Would handing a loaded gun to a person threatening suicide be reckless? Almost certainly. Does texting a suicidal person urging them to do what they are threatening rise to that level - I don't think so - not according to the case law. It would be a major break with accepted standards for wonton, reckless conduct that I studied in law school.
>>79619307
Not a public profanity case
This is private communication.
>>79617500
see, basically if you get caught on 4chan, youre arrested or fined..
and i find that post calling OP a shitlord hateful and offensive, so i just reported you to the british embassy here and hope you get properly arrested and fined.
>>79619593
>siding with the bitch
>>79619075
>BC law school grad here
hey i went there too. i was there when everyone was butthurt over john garvey coming on as dean
>>79617515
youre right, its nothing big. OP wants to construe this into some sort of anti free speech movement when its clearly the case you presented.
>>79619301
I would argue that there is no way to prove that the kid killed himself at her prompting - no matter how much she encouraged him or that she knew he was legitimately suicidal. Even reading those texts he just seems to want attention from her. If you hand a suicidal person a gun and they blow their brains out it's much easier - for instance - because you gave them the weapon they needed to commit suicide and the used it.
>She spends months destroying his self esteem
>Gets angry at him when he talks about wanting to get himself some help
>Mocks and insults him when he backs out of an attempt
>He finally decides to go through with it and she tells him it's a good decision and that everyone will be happy he's gone
>Immediately afterwords, she sets up a "charity" to raise money for suicide
And to top it all off
>/pol/ ignores all of this and cries about frozen peaches
Just read the transcripts you faggots.
>>79619606
Irrelevant. These exceptions are the law of the land.
Until the process of judicial review, started with Marybury v. Madison (1803) is eliminated (retroactively) or there is a Constitutional Amendment to clarify the wording of the First based on that exception, only the Court's opinion matters.
>>79619992
> literally uses sjw rhetoric
Hurr muh frozen peaches months of insults muh daily grind of abuse
/pol/ is basically tumblr for Nazis
>>79619928
>no way to prove
>ordered him back in the truck when he tried to survive
>died a few minutes later
Pretty sure the text message times would prove it.
>>79619542
Are you joking? Text messages are imminent communication? She can't even know if it's read, or if he's being serious - she can't see him, read his facial expressions, tone of voice, if he is where he says he is..... Imminent?
You're a clown.
>>79619850
>hey i went there too
ha ha ok
Who did you have for contract law?
>>79620228
People lie, idiot. Was she watching him through a window?
>>79620181
There's a big difference between saying "kill yourself, faggot" and spending the better part of a year getting someone to trust you so that you can manipulate them into dying.
>>79620231
>she can't even know if he read them
But she would have a reasonable expectation he did. Especially if they are continuously going back and forth via texts.
>>79620358
People lie but physical evidence of his feet dont. Retard.
>>79620228
Doesn't prove beyond a reasonable doubt IMO. A reasonable person would, i think, see that it was his choice at all times, he could have turned off the phone, drove home, etc. We'll have to wait and see what other evidence there is but I don't think there was any history of proven mental illness in the suicide and hence no reason to believe he would go through with it.
>>79620374
You're own admission is that a year passed.... Who here is arguing "imminent lawless action".... imminent???
What was her motive?
>>79620231
“the constitutional guarantees of free speech and free press do not permit a State to forbid or proscribe advocacy of the use of force or of law violation except where such advocacy is directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action.”
Her intent can be reasonably inferred to incite lawless action. I don't understand how this is that difficult.
>>79620374
Why do you trust someone who's telling you to kill yourself, you braindead faggot?
You do realize that 50% of /pol/ is posters saying blacks are dumb, ugly and subhuman and should kill themselves or wait to be killed? And that at the same time all these posters admit to having dated black chicks? Enjoy prison I guess
>>79620397
"reasonable expectation"... please. The question comes down to whether or not her behavior was reckless and it probably wasn't. All the actions that had to be taken to commit suicide were taken by the suicide himself. She in no way assisted with the planning, process or procurement of suicide materials. It would be a yuuuge break with precedent to get a conviction here.
Reading the transcripts, she definitely deserves some sort of punishment. She manipulated someone into ending their life: and then immediately tried to profit off it.
>>79620437
She can know, after a year, that day was the day? Not the many failed attempts like before. Silly clown.
He chose to communicate with her. Think about that.
Also, the parents didn't know? We believe that?
Why was his life so awful? Was he crazy or was his life really awful? Hmmmmm....
>>79620763
She helped him plan it. Suggested where to do it and how.
>>79620595
attention
>>79620556
>>79620663
You're being intentionally obtuse.
>>79620622
Imminent? A year of failed attempts... That's a long period of imminence.
>>79620527
Which is why it is involuntary mandlaughter. Proving her actions led to his death I'd easier to do than prove she wanted him dead. If the physical evidence showed he followed her texts she led to his death.
>>79620913
> i have no arguments, let me post some animu
>>79620846
From what I've read it was his idea - but it's not my case, I've only read what's online - where does it show that she helped plan?
>>79620913
No, you are intentionally ignoring the salient test in your argument - imminence.
And we're not letting it slide.
>>79620800
You are offering her no real defense in terms of involuntary manslaughter. She doesn't have to "want" anything to perform it just lead to it.
>>79620954
>Proving her actions led to his death I'd easier to do than prove she wanted him dead
Yes, that's correct but you fail to understand that it's not "proving" that her actions may have led to his death but that her "reckless and wonton" actions directly resulted in his death and that that can be proved beyond a reasonable doubt.
>>79616331
Not at all you lying fuck
Conspiracy to murder is nothing new
The only difference here is that it's got a vagina
I can guarantee, if the moronic suicider in question was a female nig and the accused was her white bf, /pol/ would be shrieking about free speech and how he was based af
This is why the law should never be decided on muh feelz
>>79621163
>She doesn't have to "want" anything to perform it just lead to it.
You have no idea what you're talking about.
>>79621232
shut up
>>79620963
>>79621019
Have you read the transcripts?
I'm guessing no. Really though, I'm assuming the two of you are just shitposting, because your posts read like caricatures of the libertarian sociopath stereotype.
>>79621306
TRIGGERED
>>79616984
Kill yourself
>>79621317
Back to your safe space, weeb
>>79621271
Her for someone who can't read:
Involuntary manslaughter usually refers to an unintentional killing that results from recklessness or criminal negligence, or from an unlawful act
>>79621401
The internet can't kill you
>>79620800
>She can know, after a year, that day was the day?
"likely to incite" =/= "knew the exact person, place, time, and predicted the outcome."
>>79620921
>Imminent? A year of failed attempts... That's a long period of imminence.
You understand how expectation works, right? If she would have done it a single time and he offed himself it would have been clearly imminent (but more difficult to evidence actual motivation without repetition).
However, the continued action would rewind the timer of "imminent". Each individual action would have a reasonable expectation of producing an imminent outcome. It isn't legally relevant that the past ones did not.
Again, the fuck did you study law at?
>>79616331
Thought Assisted suicide was already against the law.
Besides she's a woman, she'll never do any hard time.
>>79621476
i told you to shut up
>>79621476
Not an argument in her defense.
>>79621391
Sure thing, Australia.
>>79621401
Dewd, I went to law school in MA. I understand the MA statute and the case law. Why are you cutting and pasting some wikipedia shit? You're not as smart as you think you are.
>>79621586
Sure you did.
>>79621534
Yes it is. Don't like mean twees, turn off your device or delete your account.
>>79621531
Your safe space has been breached
>>79621481
A history of non-attempt attempts means the reasonable expectation is history repeats itself. Each claim of attempt by him isn't erased because he finally did it, clown.
>>79621401
Did you read this? Do you understand it?
>>79621197
>>79621501
She didn't assist him. She supported his intent.
>>79621696
Not an argument in her defense. Try to understand what involuntary manslaughter is before you recomment on this.
>>79621622
>Sure you did.
Blown away by this rejoinder, are you gonna pull out the big guns now?
>>79621845
Blown away by the stupidity. Don't worry I'm president Obama I make the laws.
>>79621800
You don't understand what "involuntary manslaughter" is or that the elements differ from state to state you fucking moron. There is no general statute you fuckwit.
>>79621800
This isn't involuntary manslaughter, this is pure horseshit. Enjoy losing the last thing your country had going for itself.
>>79620921
If I attempted to hire to you to kill someone, we would all agree that this is incitement to immanent lawless action, yes?
If you then refused, how many individual instances of me attempting to hire you and you rebuffing me would we have to go through before my incitement stopped being a crime?
>>79621714
So then you are making an argument that the reasonable expectation was that he continues to "try to commit" suicide due to her actions?
Is this your position?
>>79622039
still not an argument
>>79622080
Except no one had killed him. He killed himself.
>>79622169
Tell that to the aidsnigger who will pound you in the fed after your 4chan acitivity has been uncovered and linked to "black suicide rates" or some shit
>>79622214
I'm just trying to understand the standard he's proposing. He wasn't arguing homicide vs suicide in that post, but expectation.
if this is the same bitchi read about like half a year ago she definitely needs to be punished, those back and forth texts were legitimately psychotic, hell the bitch needs to be put down.
>>79622214
>Except no one had killed him. He killed himself.
Das right. There is your reasonable doubt - he would be alive but for his own actions, not someone else's. A text message is not a loaded gun.
Here's some of the texts
http://deadstate.org/here-are-the-disturbing-texts-from-michelle-carter-pressuring-her-boyfriend-to-commit-suicide/
>>79622080
post hoc, ergo propter hoc
While a business of killing means when you pay the transaction results in killing.
You are suggesting the same expectation exists between the girl and her long time depressed friend who claimed to be suicidal and attempt for years.
Because he finally did it, she made it happen? Huge logical fallacy.
Would you charge her if he did nothing?
I haven't read all the stuff she sent him, but this sounds like horseshit to me, she didn't force him to do anything. This seems like a ploy to displace responsibility, the guy wasn't retarded, he made the decision, she's not fucking Emporer Ming.
>>79622165
Continues to do nothing.
>>79622931
I wouldn't charge her either way, honestly, but we need a stronger argument here.
>>79616331
So the 1st amendment is dead?
>This is a case that if it goes through and is upheld will pave the way for speech laws like Europe.
Wat.
Forgetting how retarded the phrase "like Europe" is - how exactly will this very specific set of circumstances pave the way for anything? Pave the way for what, specifically? What far-reaching precedent do you think is going to be set here?
>>79620921
This is an absurd argument. It's involuntary manslaughter. If I drive drunkenly down the same street at twice the speed limit 50 times over the course of the year, and only hit someone on the 51st time, "It never killed anyone before" is not a reasonable defence.
>>79623127
Prosecutor needs an argument. If mean talk not related to minority status or an actual crime is made illegal.....this is another step away from freedom. Step by step.
I think she might get in trouble for not telling people where he is.
>>79622806
If she did help him plan to do it (according to the article she did but there is no evidence) that is a ding against her because she apparently exercised real control over how it happened. As for the fact or whether or not he tried to get out and she convinced him to go back in that seems conjectural. Do they have a recording of the 43 minute conversation before his death? Probably not. A lot of this texting seems like playacting to me and not serious. It may well have been an accidental death, i.e. he didn't intend to die but only wanted to be seen making an attempt - for the attention.
>>79623366
He killed himself. She didn't do it -
In your analogy, she told him to walk down the street every day for a year....one time he gets hit.
Is she a nice grill /pol/
http://www.strawpoll.me/10655230
>>79616331
Do you guys not remember this case??
The boy friend was super suicidal, and the girl BEGGED him to kill himself for weeks, and told him it would fix all his problems. He kept saying he wanted to tell someone but he couldn't manage the courage to tell his parents, and she told him not to tell anyone, and that they wouldn't understand. This isn't a case of free speech, this is a case of some little 16 year old cunt deciding to play a game and see if she could manipulate a beta boy who had a crush onto her into killing herself. Also she has never once shown remorse for it. She deserves to get fucked up by the system.
>>79617018
This. She didn't incite him to violence, she encouraged him to commit a crime, which is why it is being prosecuted as negligent involuntary manslaughter the same way niggers get prosecuted if one of their ape homeys dies in a felony robbery. If this were a speech issue it would be charged as incitement.
>>79622931
Chain of events.
It can be reasonably inferred that the girl's intent is at the very least for the kid to off himself or attempt to via an extended history of communication.
Attempted suicide, while unenforced, is actually criminalized in a large number of jurisdictions.
Each message at the time of messaging is imminent for that time period.
Even if the kid didn't meant to off himself, he ends up killing himself during a technically criminal act of commission of suicide.
Girl who told him to kill himself over an extended period is now subject to the ramifications of the enhanced result. If a felony occurs during a misdemeanor, what do you think'll happen?
Question/Hint: If you drive a getaway car because you and your bros are going to rob a bank, but one ends up killing a civilian, are you an accessory/participant to robbery or murder?
>>79623715
He could have just blocked her. Turned off his phone.
Also, all that texting and parents knew nothing?
Most negligent parents.
>>79617554
Underrated poast, America is toast, her enemies will boast, democracy's old hoast, we cucked her the moast!
>>79623907
>Each message at the time of messaging is imminent for that time period.
Oh? Again, logical fallacy, it was imminent because it happened? Her communication is the only factor, how do you know he didn't just get into an argument with ... parents, friends, sibling, find a huge zit on his forehead....youve got to be kidding yourself....she fails to inspire action for a year....and all of a sudden she's successful with no other factor?
Grow up
>>79624215
>He could have just blocked her. Turned off his phone.
Could have, but didn't. Hypothetical instances, sadly, are not treated as the actual facts of the case, because they aren't.
>Also, all that texting and parents knew nothing?
>Most negligent parents.
Possibly, but not directly relevant to the issue at hand.
>>79616903
If it can be shown that your shouting directly incited/encouraged illegal behavior (people beat the fuck out of each other to escape), then yes it is. Kinda. The issue isn't the speech but the clear connection of speech to illegal acts
> go protest the workers party rally, be ready to defend yourselves with force if necessary
Protected speech
> go protest the workers party rally. Stab people
Not protected speech
>muh fire in a theater
1920's passing reference, revisited in the 60's to clarify the issue as speech which promotes or incites specific actions which are themselves illegal. This girl was on the phone with the guy while he was in the truck and her speech was about the specific act of killing himself by getting back in the truck. There's a clear and intentional connection between her speech and his actions. That's not first amendment territory. The only question here is what criminal act she convinced him to commit, as suicide hasn't been illegal since the 70's
>>79624624
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence
What made this day different than all the rest?
Huge reasonable doubt. You've got no insight into his life, just some texts.
>>79616331
There are people who still don't understand women are pure evil.
>>79616331
kys
>>79619435
>>79619473
Nope
That's why it's an "involuntary manslaughter" charge, not a "conspiracy to commit X" charge.
Reckless endangerment is basically that an average person could reasonably have been expected to know their actions could lead to injury or death of another. Unless popular opinion shifts to
> don't say KYS on Twitter, they'll probably kill themselves!
There's no connection between this and a speech standard. Grey areas are shit, but necessary.
>>79624616
>Oh? Again, logical fallacy, it was imminent because it happened?
What logical fallacy? Show your work.
The causality is reversed. The outcome didn't make it imminent, but her intent was to produce an imminent outcome.
Okay, let's flip this. When he was in his truck, as CO was being introduced, and she texted "get back in." Is this not an imminent declaration to commit an action?
>>79624746
>Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence
A dead body and a text stating to "get back in," along with past references is pretty good evidence.
>>79618058
Im 36 but can remember being 18ish.
You are very impressionable esp from girls you like. If yourr down and on the fence about killing yourself.... texts like these just might do it.
Jesus I thought pol was above pussy pedestaling.
Gtfo beta faggots burn this cunt at the stake.
>>79621197
Are you aware of the 30+ minute phone call at the time of the act? With the previous exchange acting as a back stop to psychological manipulation (reasonably assumed that her interactions with him reinforced and promoted his intentions), I'd say directly convincing the guy over the phone to get back in the truck is at least negligent. Yeah the general "lol KYS" shit isn't reasonably expected to lead to acts, but direct definitive persuasion at the time of the act with a history of similar messaging changes what an average person could expect their involvement to result in.
>>79616331
>>79618829
Kill yourselves. HOLY SHIT CALL OBAMA. Parents should do a better job of raising their kids. If people kill themselves after merely saying it to them, we are leaving in extremely dangerous times. The trigger era, where nobody can say anything.
Fucking soros...
Cunt should be hanged
Why does everyone in the US think they are a lawyer?
"Carter wouldn't be the first person convicted of orchestrating a suicide remotely. William F. Melchert-Dinkel was a Minnesota nurse who, under various female aliases, enjoyed encouraging people to live-stream their own hangings, according to the Wall Street Journal. In 2011 Melchert-Dinkel was found guilty of two counts under a Minnesota law that said it was illegal to "advise" or "encourage" suicide.
But those charges were overturned when, in the first half of 2014, the Minnesota Supreme Court ruled that criminalizing "advising" or "encouraging" suicide violated the First Amendment. Later that year he was tried again, and convicted of "assisting" a suicide, a law that is still on the books in that state.
Massachusetts, on the other hand, is one of those rare states where assisting suicide is not illegal. Forty states have assisted-suicide laws on the books but the Bay State is not oneof them. Encouraging suicide is not a crime either, according to Cataldo"
http://www.vice.com/read/is-telling-someone-to-commit-suicide-a-crime-902
>>79616331
Pretty it is the fact that she knew the guy was actively killing himself and didn't bother to call for help but rather told a person in the process of killing themselves to do it fgt. Completely different than me telling you to kill yourself where I have no idea if you have the means or are in the process of killing yourself.
>>79627035
(cont.)
"That's why the state is charging Carter with involuntary manslaughter, instead. Prosecutors at the Bristol District Attorney's office say people have been convicted of similar crimes in the past, including one case in 1961 where after telling her he was going to file for divorce, Ilario Persampieri handed his drunken wife a loaded rifle and instructed her on how to pull the trigger with her feet. While she was taking off her right shoe, the rifle discharged and she died the next day. Persampieri was convicted of involuntary manslaughter."
But in that case he handed her the rifle.
If she materially helped him commit suicide by setting up the apparatus, she might be convicted of assisting a suicide.
ALL CRIME IS POLITICS
** This is just a prosecutor trying to get re-elected. Funny how the same prosecutor won't go after his own corruption**
http://www.enterprisenews.com/article/20150418/NEWS/150416152
>>79616331
this wasnt about speech. she convinced her boyfriend to kill himself. you're a fucking retard.
>>79625206
That's exactly what this case is saying. If you say kys , no matter how many times, it's IM if someone does it.
What if it's a group text, is it multiple culprits?
>lawfag
>not knowing what aiding and abetting is, or accessory, or emotional abuse
What third tier toilet law school did you go to? Couldn't get into the t14?
>>79616331
This trial wont even get to the speech issue.
>lawfag
No you arent, if you truly were a lawfag you would now that the courts try to resolves cases using statutes first, then constitutional readings.
What she did have negligence (basically the definition of manslaughter) in this case. A good prosecutor can spin her texts to be a "suicide pact" which has precedent for being convictable of manslaughter.
>>79625368
You are suggesting her texts did it.
What can else was going on in his life?
Why this time not all the others?
Ignorance is never a great prosecutorial strategy.
>>79625494
Yeah, sure, if you're on the fence about killing yourself. Who's to say he wouldn't have done it of his own free will later?
I'm just saying that even though what she did is morally reprehensible, I don't think it justifies legal action. It's too slippery a slope. We are all ultimately responsible for our actions. Under any and all circumstances.
I don't care that you're weak. I don't care that you had a shitty upbringing. It doesn't matter.
But I equally don't like the idea of her getting away with it because what she did was so devoid of humanity. I think the widespread publication of details is sufficient. The fact that everyone she meets will know what a piece of shit she is. Maybe being disallowed the opportunity to change her name legally...
>>79617084
What the fuck are you talking about
>>79616331
If the state can prove the boyfriend's suicide is as a result of her messages and she knew there was a possibility of him committing the act after her encouragement, she's fucked.
>>79624215
Are you kidding? Your parents are fucking insane if they monitor your texting at 12 years +
Also all kids are on their phones all the time nowadays, they had no way of knowing he was texting
>>79616331
Our 1st amendment doesn't protect against speech that threatens life.
>>79617345
No response. :)
>>79629639
And didn't know their son was suicidal.
Lots of not knowing going on.
>>79629710
>Speech that threatens life
Hurr durr
>>79629358
Why this time not all the others?
>>79627468
Know? She knew? Prove it
mfw
>>79616331
>dozens of text messages urging him to kill himself
This isn't about someone going "kys" on an imageboard, this is about a girl who bullied her boyfriend into committing suicide.
>>79630093
>Hurr durr
What did he mean by this?
>>79616331
The hell are you going on about? This was always a crime in the same way helping someone commit suicide is a crime.
>>79620763
No it wouldnt, and youre dumb
>>79616331
Nah. Its just an excuse to fry this bitch.
Just like people with CP get loli hentai to add to their jail sentence, but no one is ever arrested for 'just' possessing loli hentai.
>>79616331
>This is a case that if it goes through and is upheld will pave the way for speech laws like Europe.
It's not the speech itself, it what she intended with the speech that is the crime. Convincing someone to commit suicide is wrong, no matter how you get your message across.
You'd think a real lawfag would know better
>>79616331
>involuntary
Seems pretty voluntary to me senpai
>>79616331
I don't understand this at all, suicide isn't a crime
>>79616331
>This is a case that if it goes through
What she did was a call to action. That has never been part of free speech nor has it been legal. If this little cunt did this shit when the constitution was written, she would have been burned at the stake for witchcraft.
>>79637045
Actually is. You're not allowed to kill yourself or assist someone else in any way. You can't urge someone either. The 'appropriate' response is calling it in so that they can receive help.
>>79623588
You genuinely seem stupid.
>>79637201
In what state is suicide a crime?
>>79637305
At least Commiefornia is sensible about this.
Copy paste
>Suicide is the act of taking one's own life. In California, suicide is not a crime. However, aiding, advising, encouraging, or assisting another to commit suicide is a felony, punishable from 16 months to three years in the state prison. California Penal Code section 401.
>>79637641
This didn't happen in California. Did she help or advise him in any way other than telling him he should kill himself? I don't know much about this case
>>79637824
Its a califag, according to them everything happens in cali. Jsut ignore them
>>79637907
I'm just pointing out the laws in this state as an example on how to find the laws.
>>79637824
you can google it and it'll either show you right no the front page or possibly give you a .gov link.
>>79616762
Aaaaaaaaand that's where law as a set of rules prevaricates the purpose of said set of rules.
If someone says hey I'm going to kill myself can I borrow your gun? And you give them a gun and they kill themselves, should you be charged with a crime? Provided you are not a mandatory reporter like a cop
>>79616331
>law fag
> not citing precedence
>obvious malicious intent
>thinks this has anything to do with 1st
You gotta do better than D's in highschool, skooter.
>>79616331
did the guy actually kill himself?
>>79619992
>using freeze peach unironically
Fucking kill yourself reddit.
>>79617233
You're making a terrible analogy. Being on the internet and saying something like 'go kill yourself' does not have the same impact as someone very close in your life pressures you to do so after you confess you wish to commit suicide.
But of course OP does'nt link the entire fucking article because he knows damn well very few anons will go look it up for themselves to see the full story rather then base it off the title and first sentence.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/teenage-girl-who-urged-boyfriend-to-kill-himself-to-stand-trial-a7116846.html
>"Like, honestly I could have stopped it," she wrote...."I hope they hold her accountable for her actions," Roy’s grandfather, Conrad Roy Sr., told the Boston Globe. "She told him to get back in the truck. She prodded him on. All of the text messages are pretty much self-explanatory."
>Prosecutors have alleged that Carter pressured Roy to go through with suicide, counseled him on his fears and researched suicide methods. Text messages between the two propelled the case into a national spotlight and highlighted Carter’s alleged role.
>"You’re finally going to be happy in heaven. No more pain," she told him in one message. "It’s okay to be scared and it’s normal. I mean, you’re about to die."
>>79628246
B-but muh sociopathic activities why take them away? ;_;
>Stand on a stage and tell people to go kill someone
>If they do it you go to jail for incitement
>Talk to someone in person and convince them to shoot up a school
>Go to jail for incitement and conspiracy
>Spend months convincing someone to kill themselves
>They do it, but suddenly the crime of incitement and manslaughter no longer applies because they killed themself and not someone else.
B-But you can't PROVE Charles Manson's words are what made them kill Sharon Tate.
It was their choice they had full control and could have just not done it.
Seriously /pol/ this shit has been established as 100% fucking illegal for a hundred years. Get your fucking shit together.
>>79641114
Suicide isn't a crime, murder is
This breaks my heart since the guy kind of looks like a younger version of myself. I just read the text transcripts and this girl sounded like a psycho bitch. Told him that she loved him and she needed him to kill himself. What the fuck is wrong with that girl? I mean it's obvious that the guy had depression issues but what kind of sick freak gets pleasure from this?
>>79616331
somebody start a free speech petition on change.org with this stupid cunts face. you have to admit it is wrong but still... free speech is more important than some retard who listens to some slut
>>79641477
This
>>79641431
>I mean it's obvious that the guy had depression issues but what kind of sick freak gets pleasure from this?
I'm assuming the "Lawfag" OP does. There are psychopaths who relate to people like her on /pol/ anon.
It's ironic since the OP tripfag thinks this is some type of shit where liberals take away freedumbs despite the fact that the ones who do advocate assisted suicide ARE liberals and it's usually the conservatives and Christians who always advocate against suicide. Suicide is a mortal sin after all.
>>79617345
She is in this situation because her boyfriend was in the process of killing himself with exhaust from a car, got out, and she basically told him to not be a pussy and get back in the gas chamber.
There is a huge difference than people on the internet saying kill yourself
>>79642149
So she should be charged with a crime bc he is a cuck?
>>79619307
~t. Akmhed
>>79642554
She should be charged because she is the reason he went through with it. He most likely loved her and hearing get back into the gas chamber from a loved one is the reason he did.
>>79642928
So? Suicide isn't a crime
>>79618058
Sometimes mental illness is a factor that exists beyond the realm of one's self control. and if a weakness is defined as a trait which is possible to be consciously improved upon then perhaps we shouldn't hold this kid's hangups against him. Who knows what happened to the kid to make him so deficient.
>>79643512
It is a crime when someone pushes you to do it dipshit
>>79644302
Sauce? I don't think it should be a crime
>>79616331
This really isn't about speech laws. She is a psychopath. She had the intend to kill him so people would donate her money and she did it.
>>79644604
Well an attempt murder is a crime, isn't it? That's bcause the intend was there, even though they didn't successfully kill the person. It is the same here. She had the intention to kill him and it would benefit her financially. And even though we have freedom of speech, threatening someone's life is a crime.
>>79643921
What if this kid had been recruited by some terrorist organization and persuaded to blow himself up if he's so impressionable and ready to die? Mental illness doesn't excuse one's actions.
Just because he was weak enough to be manipulated does not change the fact that he ultimately took his own life. He made the final decision and took the action required to carry it out.
Dont get me wrong. I think this cunt is on par with a cold blooded burder morally. It's terrible and any other human being with an ounce of humanity would have tried to help him, or if he was beyond help, certainly not encourage him to the point that she did.
>>79645018
Murderer*
>>79645016
She didn't kill him, he killed himself. Murder and suicide are different things. Yes she talked him in to killing himself but that still isn't murder. Suicide still isn't a crime
>>79645267
But threatening someone's life is a crime. And she actually persuaded him to commit suicide, which is worse.
>>79616331
>that 7head
and /pol/ genuinely makes threads about preserving the wh*te race...
>>79645492
She didn't threaten his life. That's a different crime. Suicide isn't a crime. Maybe she should be charged with fraud for profiting from his death?
>>79645651
And this was going on for a very long time. She is a fucking psychopath
dont know if any legal action should be taken, but she should be lynched nonetheless
>>79645895
I don't disagree she is a psychopath but encouraging someone to kill themselves shouldn't be a crime
>>79639093
Duh. You're fucking unstable if you give that nigger a gun.
I don't want you or my suicidal friend in my society.
>>79616331
yeah but only due to your faggot system of "justice" where a judgement once spoken can be used as foundation for similar cases as role modell. this is utter BS.
>>79646324
Not true, I covered this here >>79635002
.
You're misunderstanding "precident"
>>79646129
>fag wants the right to say anything with zero consequences
>does so anonymously
Unlike you, I am not a pussy so I put my real name in the option field.
>>79617259
It also depends on the language, for instance you can say it in general,
"you should really kill yourself"
and the way that gets you in jail is
"You should kill yourself with that gun your dad has in his truck"
If the person dies from the gun in the truck, then it can be argued in some states that you're liable for the death. Manslaughter most likely.
>>79616331
>Fetal alcohol syndrome looking twat face
She should kill herself, asap.
>>79642928
Why of all the months did that day he do it? She all of a sudden became convincing?
>>79617515
I fail to see how this is a crime, in what way is suicide illegal? You are not obligated to help the person not commit suicide, you can get them to do it because you aren't their mother, adults should have the willpower to think twice. Some yuppie teen having a down day does something stupid and somebody else pays the price? Sounds gay to me.
>>79648552
Inciting violence has always been a crime, in spite of the first amendment.
Ordering someone to kill themselves makes you guilty in the same way that ordering someone to kill another person would, if they go through with it.
>>79619672
>wonton
delicious soup is delicious.
for all of you saying she should not be persecuted, read it
https://www.scribd.com/doc/276206526/Michelle-Carter-Texts
