>american education
Why are americans always the ones insisting on forcing pseudoscientific babble in public schools like creationism and shit?
>>79360610
This is only a problem in rural schools.
meh, even grown up adults in my country consider the idea that intelligence is mostly genetic as racist.
Creationism isnt that far off.
>>79360610
>pseudoscience
>fetuses are human
please tell me how science agrees that something with individual human DNA, is alive, cells are replicating, and is a separate organism from the mother isn't a human.
Last time I checked if you're alive and a human you're a human, OP.
If it's not human what is it?
>>79360610
You do whatever it is you need to in order to justify your fetish for exterminating human life.
>>79361646
a political pawn
>>79361646
A progressive agenda
>>79360610
>cells have human DNA and different DNA than the mother
>cells are growing, dividing, and have independent movement from the mother
>"IT'S NOT HUMAN, IT'S JUST A PART OF THE MOTHER'S BODY. IT'S A CANCER. IT CAN BE REMOVED AT ANY TIME."
If anyone is pseudoscientific, it's libshits.
>>79361646
a babby.
Is you ask how is babby formed / how girl get pragnent?
they need to do way instain mother in USA
>>79361646
A tool of the patriarchy. Only a fetus born through parthenogenesis is exempt from this definition.
>>79361913
I am truly sorry for your lots.
The one question I always ask pro-choicers is
'If I stab a pregnant woman and kill the 'thing' inside, for killing that 'thing', should I be charged with vandalism or a form of manslaughter?'
Because if it's not a life, it is either part of the woman and I am only charged with the crime committed on the woman, or it is considered property and I have vandalized it.
>>79361638
The law doesn't care about human, it cares about "person"
Education is literally the best way to prevent unwanted/planned pregnancy and consequently, abortion.
Education is also the best way to teach people that when you have an abortion, you are ending a future persons life. Don't want to call it murder, fine, a rose by any other name, you are ending a future human from existing.
>>79361638
Aparently positive law tells us to not kill jews but silences over unborn babies.
>>79360610
It's pretty scientifically solid that abortion kills a human being. I'm still totally okay with it though, few dead babies here or there never made me cry.
>dat edge
>>79362042
It was on the news this mroing a mother in ar who had kill her three kids. they are taking the three babby back to new york too lady to rest my pary are with the father who lost his chrilden
Put the law aside for a moment - understanding fetal development at least can help people make better-informed personal choices.
Libs want you to believe that a fetus is some kind of cardboard cutout until the moment of birth.
>not being pro-choice simply for the fact that abortion kills millions of black babies every year
The black population in this country is literally kept in check by abortion.
>>79362323
And what makes it not a person?
Because it isn't currently sentient?
Because it can't take care of itself?
By that logic people in comas shouldn't have rights and neither should old people that can't take care of themselves.
Even with that logic, there's no reason to believe someone who's been in a coma for years is ever going to recover and old person is definitely going to die soon.
So a fetus should still be worth more than those people.
But because it's spatially located inside a stupid woman libtards have decided that fetuses are merely organs and can be removed.
>>79361814
Interestingly you can use exactly the same argument against cancer treatment.
>>79362944
No you can't... cancer cells aren't healthy and they don't have seperate human DNA they have the same slightly altered DNA of the host.
>>79362813
>sapience a precondition for personhood
you got it.
>By that logic people in comas shouldn't have rights and neither should old people that can't take care of themselves.
and those people are removed from life support on a regular basis.
Viability and sapient capacity are the historic hallmarks of persons and thus rights.
That said person-hood begins around 24 weeks gestation.
>>79362944
Cause a lethal disease from genetic damage, is equal to the reproductional life cycle of life, amirite?
>>79362664
this, abortions should be free for non-whites. In fact, they should be mandatory.
We need more abortions, not less. Fuck the south family
>>79360610
Why are you a dumbass who uses facebook clickbait to justify and objectify a whole nation of people?
>RAYSISS BYGOOOT
>>79363265
Riddle me this why isn't a severed finger a person?
>>79363517
New borne aren't sapient or aware. They're a bundle of neurons with the instinct of suck, shit, sleep. They don't even pass the mirror test.
And they aren't viable. Another organism has to provide for them or they will die.
Ultimately putting down a dog is more of a crime, then what this stellar example of humanity did in your twisted world.
>>79363517
>sapience
sapience: having or showing great wisdom or sound judgment.
so i guess that qualifies you for abortion anon.
I'm gonna assume you meant sentience.
And by that logic, coma patients, those who are unconscious, those put under by drugs in hospitals.
None of these humans due to temporary lack of consciousness and therefore not being sentient, aren't people and can be freely done with whatever those who ARE sentient want to do with them.
now it all makes sense. I am now pro-choice.
>>79363957
Because muh jesus doesn't love a severed finger, you infanticidal cultural-marxist-leninist-maoist atheist!
>>79363957
let's see... not even an organism?
cells will no longer reproduce once the finger starts to die?
got anymore stupid questions anon?
>>79364002
>New borne aren't sapient or aware
They have a cerebral cortex at 24 weeks. So you are wrong. If newborns werent aware or sapient, they would be like that forever since they couldnt learn anything new.
>>79364088
why are brazils bad at everything?
>>79360610
I tolerate abortion because it kills more niggers than whites, but it really is a cancer on our society. We just have bigger cancers that it happens to counteract nicely.
>>79364278
Due to American imperialism.
>>79364040
No i meant sapience.
I dont use dictionary.com because thats for retards.
I use the medical definition in which sapience refers to human level intelligence. That which is uniquely human. Like abstract modeling, inference, deductive reasoning.
>>79364151
>cells will no longer reproduce once the finger starts to die?
but there still reproducing after its severed.
I guess your just a retard who never heard of the hayflick limit. cells begin dying in people too.
>>79362323
children dont reach sentience until around year 2
up to year 6 for niggers
abortion should be legal on children up to todlers
>>79364469
>Muh American imperialism
No, your shit because your full of brown people.
>>79364040
consciousness =\= sapience
your like a retarded person
>>79364801
>sentience
you dont know what that word means.
Sentience is the capacity to feel, perceive, or experience subjectively.
>>79364823
WE GUD BOYZ WE DINDU NUFFIN'!
>>79364907
>consiousness
i'm talking to retards here, they're essentially interchangeable.
Why is it so hard for roasties to accept responsibility?
>I had sex with Chad but am not prepared to raise babby please scramble it's brains and vacuum it out
>>79365122
>babies arent conscious
wew lad
dont reproduce
>>79364689
So what you're saying is there's absolutely no difference between a severed finger and a non-severed finger.
And i noticed you ignored the part about it not being an organism.
It must hurt to be this stupid.
>>79365234
they can't pass a mirror test
they cant even store memories until a certain age
what's your first memory? sure as shit wasn't when you were a year old
>>79364846
this might come as a surprise to you... but when your brain is UNCONSCIOUS it isn't capable of being sentient or sapient.
also stop using sapient incorrectly you stupid shill.
>>79365243
not an argument
>>79364846
and that leads back to my argument.
I guess it should be legal for me to roofy you, rape your skull and then kill you.
Because you being unconscious and all and not sapient you're not a person and have no rights.
Good to know you're fine with that.
>>79364224
http://www.popsci.com/blog-network/kinderlab/why-your-dog-smarter-my-baby
The average dog is on the same Intelluctual level of 2.5 year old. And babies can't pass the mirror test for up to 18 months.
There is Zero reason to value a >18 month old anymore then an animal under the scientific definition.
Once again, that women in my orginal pic is perfectly justified under your parameters.
>>79365589
Nor isn't your original post, you retard.
>le silly lolbertarian pseudointellectual maymay XDDDDDD
>>79362536
It's finally happened. Canada no longer speaks English.
>>79360610
My biggest problem is still that pro-lifers stop caring about these kids completely once they're born.
>>79365963
There are whole cities in Canada where the majority speaks French and a lot don't understand English at all.
>>79365679
>>79365404
>>79365501
>>79365649
>>79365679
>but when your brain is UNCONSCIOUS it isn't capable of being sentient
This is what retards cant grasp.
An unconscious brain is CAPABLE of being sentient when it becomes conscious again.
Not having the capability to be sentient is what matters.
All that other bullshit is irrelevant.
>cant mirrror test =\= non-sentient
>cant remember =\= non-sentient
>back to my argument
GIGO
>>79366064
More like we're telling people DON'T FUCK IF YOU DON'T WANT KIDS.
Seriously? Killing babies is the only "caring" option in this dilemma?
>>79365679
>popsci
try finding real sources
>>79366064
isn't an argument.
being against abortion (which is directly killing a human being) is a lot different than caring about whether children should be cared for after birth.
Being against murder doesn't mean you need to support welfare and making sure poor people don't die.
>>79365402
>And i noticed you ignored the part about it not being an organism.
a fetus is not an organism either until it is sentient.
removing a non-sentient fetus is the same as a severed finger.
>>79365402
Check m8.
As a biofag I cringe every time someone tries to argue that fetuses aren't human. Trying to argue for abortion from the stance that fetuses are not human is utter stupidity. There are better arguments you can make.
>>79366239
>unconscious brain is capable of being sentient
when i said capable i meant at the time of being unconscious.
Though I can see what you're TRYING to say what you meant to say is that it has potential.
And i've been waaaaiting for you to make this stupid argument, thanks for playing.
Please tell me how fetuses aren't "capable" or more aptly phrased, do not have the potential to be sapient?
Because I'm pretty sure you realize they have that potential.
At the CURRENT time of being a fetus they aren't "sapient" sure.
But wait a minute... neither are unconscious people!
congratulations you defeated yourself.
>>79366501
Thats funny, because Roe v Wade didnt discuss humans it discussed persons.
This is what happens when biofags try to in2law
>>79366426
lol...
are you an idiot? Sentience is not a requirement of being an organism.
You know that plants are organisms right?
A dead leaf isn't.
Please go take biology before you try to participate in arguments about abortion and then come back to me.
>>79365742
It's a statement monkey.
>>79366239
>sen·tient
>ˈsen(t)SH(ē)ənt/
>adjective
>adjective: sentient
>able to perceive or feel things.
>"she had been instructed from birth in the equality of all sentient life forms"
>synonyms: (capable of) feeling, living, live; More
>conscious, aware, responsive, reactive
"any sentient creature should have the good sense to avoid something so dangerous"
Just another retarded sociopathic Marxist redefining words to bullshit.
Are you claiming under the definition a dog isn't sentient? No, that'd be retarded.
But considering your double think can't seem to process a baby is outclassed in every measurement of brain capacity... that's the only conclusion that can be arrived to.
You're a retard who bought into a materialist sociopath meme and can't truly cope with the ramifications.
>>79366426
let me rephrase, go take a junior high biology class.
>>79366574
>when i said capable i meant at the time of being unconscious.
>i like using words in ways 99% dont use them
so your argument is attach irrelevant conditions to what you think sentience is.
Its like you don't whata habitual being is, versus a temporary being.
Lets analyze your broken logic with an example.
>Trees are green.
>False. Trees in winter are not green.
>Therefore Trees are never green.
>At the CURRENT time of being a fetus they aren't "sapient" sure.
doesnt have any bearing on time.
Only on biological capability.
Once again you fail to use "capable" correctly.
Capable =\= Is
>>79366272
They site real sources faggot. But nice rebuttal of absolute zero relevence.
That's usually when you know your opponent is arguing from pure emotional impulse.
>>79360610
>in public schools
Found the problem.
>>79366663
It still irrelevant. You just blew your own argument out the water. A plant isnt a person and a fetus is any different than a plant without sentience.
>>79361322
this
the human evolution denial in germans is fucking retarded
>>79366501
I've come to realize that the majority in favor of abortion don't understand biology and have coerced themselves into emotionally disassociating fetuses as being alive and or human.
The only actual argument for abortion is population control, but I would wager that 99% of abortionfags don't care about population control.
Even if they did there are much more effective methods of lowering the population.
>>79366790
>Are you claiming under the definition a dog isn't sentient? No, that'd be retarded.
its true canadians cant read english
a dog is sentient
a fetus prior to 24 weeks is not.
you lose.
>>79366696
Nobody cares.
>>79366265
>DON'T FUCK IF YOU DON'T WANT KIDS.
So you're screaming at a wall telling it to do something that you know won't happen? Humans are programmed to fuck, in the same way they are programmed to breathe. The only thing you can do is control births by any means neccessary.
Besides that you aren't punishing the parent anywhere near as much as you are punishing the child.
They will grow up (maybe) under the parentage of ill-suited and ill-prepared parents. They will have no future prospects because their parents were fuck ups who couldn't raise them right.
They will end up worthless and sucking on the welfare teat either inside or outside of jail.
You will complain about [insert generation] being fucking worthless and wonder why it happened all while being willfully ignorant of your role in it.
>>79366304
>I don't care if the kid dies so long as it's born.
That's a pretty abysmal and irresponsible view to take. Telling a woman who fucks up and gets knocked up that she can't abort is not different from telling someone who fucks up and injures themselves that they aren't allowed to get medical attention.
Further more I'll reemphasize it is the child and the society at large that will pay the heaviest price not the irresponsible parents.
>>79366932
nice immaterial argument
>dogs are smarter than a 2 year old.
That study is stupid and you are too for believing it.
>http://www.pbs.org/parents/childdevelopmenttracker/one/
Here you go. Facts instead of memescience.
>>79367134
>drowning a new born in a bathtub morally superior to putting down a dog, since a dog is more sentient
Anybody can see how stupid your reasoning is. Best to just stop posting now.
>>79367089
>being alive
>human
your still missing one dummy.
keep trying to argue around sentience like a fucking retard in denial.
without sentience your fetus is bag of cells.
>but it has a face
so do mannequins
i bet you think they are people too.
>>79367266
>Guys, I'm sure this person might have a miserable life.... Best just to kill them.
It amazes me just how much common sense someone has to kill before they can spout such idiocy.
Honestly OP, under my parameters, being such a sociopathic idiot would be a life not worth living in my eyes. Best if you had died earlier, eh?
>>79366841
you have an extremely poor vocabulary.
but I'm not gonna harp on semantics because that's how stupid people try to win arguments.
>doesn't have any bearing on time
>only on biological capability
You're trying to say something, but I don't think anyone understands what it is you're attempting to say.
But let me break it down for you in terms that even you can use properly.
Fetuses... at the time of being a fetus aren't sentient/sapient/intelligent/ whatever your arbitrary qualifier of personhood is.
Unconscious people ALSO at that point in time aren't sentient/sapient.
They both have the POTENTIAL (not capability) to becoming sentient, but currently aren't.
If you can't understand something that simple then you're just not intelligent enough to argue with, and I'm pretty sure that qualifies you for being aborted.
abort yourself anon.
>>79367318
>still doesnt understand definition of sentient
you think your going to lecture people on biology and not know how to speak english.
Prove to me a dog is more aware of its surronding then a baby.
If you mention one more thing about intelligence, then you have proven that have none, since sentience has NOTHING to do with intelligence.
>>79364469
Holy shit the CIA was behing the coup against Joao Gulart?
I like them even more now, filthy commie
The funny thing is that the American debate around abortion is not about the actual act of abortion, but the way it is paid for.
Libtards feel it is the right of women in society to get free reproductive healthcare.
Christians flip their shit because their tax dollars go towards the aborting of unborn kids. Their funds should be religiously exempt. But libtards care not for their fellow man.
So continue living in your whimsical little land of falsehoods whilst the rest of us debate whether or not abortion should be funded by taxpayers.
>>79366993
are people on /pol/ actually autistic?
I thought this was just a meme.
YOU said that fetuses aren't intelligent and therefore not organisms.
Not knowing what organisms are disqualifies you from arguing.
I disproved YOUR argument.
I didn't make any arguments or disprove them you stupid autist.
>>79367593
>arbitrary qualifier of personhood is.
the only qualifier that ever existed.
>that point in time
doesnt have anything to do with sentience.
nice try worming your way off that hook.
"potential" dont mean shit either.
I believe your the one who thinks all words are interchangeably with others.
A typical conman mentality to avoid clear language.
>>79367787
By that logic it is ok I just go and cut the throat of someone in cerebral coma
>>79367266
Abortion is actively ending the life of something.
Starving to death is not murder.
People don't like abortion because it's murdering people. A kid starving to death isn't murder.
Not giving someone money isn't murder.
The fact that I am against murder does not mean that I agree that those who are too lazy or too incapable should get handouts.
>>79367755
>le gommies are bad
That's a nice meme, but America doesn't give a shit about communism, they only care about keeping us down for their own economical and political benefit. That is the same CIA that supported communist dictator Plutarco Elías Calles in México. Read a book once in your life, people like you are responsible for our country being shit.
>>79361814
This is the exact argument I always use
>>79363957
A severed finger doesn't have unique dna you retard
>>79362255
They always stumble to answer when I ask that, too
>>79367787
>YOU said that fetuses aren't intelligent and therefore not organisms.
nope didnt say that.
>I disproved YOUR argument.
you mean you defeated a straw man of your own creation.
If it isnt sentient AND human is is not a person.
Now follow along little idiot.
Dog = Sentient , but not human.
Not a person.
12 week fetus = Human , but not sentient.
Not a person.
a rock = not human nor sentient.
Not a person.
Newborn baby = sentient and human
Congrats its a person !
>>79367453
I've already defeated your stupid argument of sentience being a requirement.
go back to roddit now.
>>79368023
>A severed finger doesn't have unique dna you retard
>No DNA in a finger.
lol. you dont even know what DNA is
>>79367999
>le gommies are bad
Yeah they are
America just want to expand their industry in as many countries as possible to have more proft, this is literally the only thing that America wants
>>79367869
you still haven't given anyone a single reason how unconscious people are more people than fetuses
Fetuses will become sentient given time
Unconscious people will become sentient given time.
How is your brain not firing off the correct neurons to piece those two pieces together.
>>79368215
>Yeah they are
I'm sure they are, Mirosmar. The good guys are the suited guys in Washington DC, they only want us well!
>this is literally the only thing that America wants
Yeah, keep telling yourself that.
>>79367299
It's perfectly relevant.
>guys, a fetus is not a person because it's not sentient/self aware
>guys, it's okay to put down a animal because it's not as self aware/sentient as a person
>guys, it's not okay to kill a fresh newborn even though animals are superior in sentience/self awareness because...uhhhh.... Reasons
The fact is you want hard science to justify killing childern in the womb because it's convenient. But the moment the shear atrocity of the act can no longer be covered up by a materialist excuse, you suddenly become "sentimental".
You're inconsistent as I've demonstrated, and nothing in your link states that the mental capacity of a fresh newborn is anyway, shape or form, superior or equal to creatures which we regularly slaughter.
You're just coward hiding behind rational when it suits you, and disgrading it when it becomes a hindrance.
>>79360610
Because education in America is patterned off of the Prussian model and is more about making a person an effective worker than it is about properly informing them about the world or making them independent thinkers. Cramming ideological narratives in is assumed as a part of the system.
>>79368105
>Sentience is the capacity to feel, perceive, or experience subjectively.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentience
tell me where a sleeping person no longer has the capacity to feel, perceive or experience subjectively.
>>79367999
Also you have to see the other option in the case of Plutarco Elías Calles, America trhew a bomb in Hiroshima and Nagasaki which IS bad but the other option would let them be attacked and taken by the URSS, which woudl be worst for them in the long run
>go read a book maymay
At least the books that I read are not MEC manipulated :^)
>>79367576
Common sense does not mean "agreeing with me". Stop it.
But since you're going to make me out to be the mercy killing type then fine. I also support assisted suicide for people with terminal illnesses and am not opposed to allowing people to commit suicide in general.
>>79367978
>Starving to death is not murder.
Actively preventing someone from eating would be murder however. By extension forcing someone to have a kid they would otherwise not have and will be unable to feed could also be considered murder.
Regardless of that though the callus indifference to a kid starving to death is basically all you need to demonstrate to prove me correct. You don't care about the child's life you care about controlling the methods by which that life will end.
By all means we should indeed ban abortion and encourage breeding. The more babies we can get born the more we get to watch die, it'll be perfect!
>>79360610
Also Abortion is murder, but we should let people do it anyways because unwanted children grow up in shity enviroments.
ROMAN ABORTIONS FOR ALL!
what race do take more abortions?
>>79368239
>Unconscious people will become sentient given time.
Nope. That's wrong retard. Unconscious people are sentient.
Your tiny brain cant grasp being vs capacity.
>>79368396
There are no grades of sentience.
Its sentient or non-sentient
So your argument of "more sentient than" is bullshit.
>>79360610
Only niggers should be allowed to have abortions
>>79368637
blacks and other minorities
being anti abortion is being anti white
>>79367615
Already posted the definition here:
>>79366790
Proofs and cited sources here:
http://www.equip.org/article/peter-singers-bold-defense-of-infanticide/
You're right in the same boat with said faggot in the article too.
>>79368519
>Also you have to see the other option in the case of Plutarco Elías Calles, America trhew a bomb in Hiroshima and Nagasaki which IS bad but the other option would let them be attacked and taken by the URSS, which woudl be worst for them in the long run
So let me get this straight: your morals don't work on the basis of what is right or wrong, they work on the basis of who benefits and who's harmed? Law, for you, is not of the fact, but of the author?
Okay then, then explain to me why the fuck do you care about a foreign country which thus far in our history has only harmed us? I wish you would defend Brazil and its actions and interests with the same impetus.
>At least the books that I read are not MEC manipulated
No, they're just manipulated by somebody else.
>:^)
Fuck off back to orkut.
>>79368833
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentience
Nope you didnt.
Sentience has nothing to do with intelligence.
>>79368078
i see you're still trying to cover up that time you that sentience was a requirement of being an organism.
Let me just remind you of how stupid you are.
YOU said
>why isn't a severed finger a person?
I said it isn't an organism
You said
>a fetus is not an organism either until it is sentient
>removing a non-sentient fetus is the same as a severed finger
I literally copypastad that from your own comments.
so let me say it again since you haven't gotten it yet
BEING SENTIENT IS NOT A REQUIREMENT FOR BEING AN ORGANISM
And then you said
>unconscious people are people because they will become sentient given time
>but uh... fetuses aren't because... because I said so hahahahaha stupid moron!
I actually thought I was arguing with two separate people.
One who was only slightly stupid and another one who is less intelligent than the fetuses he hates so much
BUT IT TURNS OUT BOTH INSTANCES OF STUPID CAME FROM YOU
I can't make this stuff up folks.
Please keep proving to all of us just how stupid you are.
It's quite hilarious
>>79368078
How is a newborn baby sentient
>>79368860
>work on the basis of who benefits and who's harmed
That's the definition of moral. Real things like harm or benefit.
Not, imaginary subjective feelings of right and wrong.
>>79368676
Even if that is true.
>it's not
Then;
>both baby's and dogs have the same level of sentience
Or
>a fetus has no sentience, but eventually develops sentience, indicating different developmental levels in accordance with the brain.
And I already posted the dictonary definition of sentience.
>>79366790
But I forgot Marxists don't read.
>>79369066
Great, then tell him to think of what harms or benefits himself, not somebody else. He's just a shitty americaboo cocksucker.
>>79368577
>Actively preventing someone from eating would be murder however
It's not actively preventing someone from eating if you don't pay more taxes to give the poor of your country more food.
By that logic you're murdering everyone in the whole world who is starving because you didn't donate all your money to organizations fighting world hunger.
stupid murdering faggot.
>>79368860
Its is like the trolley problem, if you do nothing 4 will be killed if you pull the lever 1 will be killed and your companies will be able to expand so just pull the damn lever god what is so fucking hard to understand
I dont see someone that was againt a right wing dicatorship and took the only other stance that was betten which was by incident better to the people in the country,as bad.
I defend Brazil when it made the right choice like the war with Paraguay, we are simply not discussing this here you fucking retard
>implying that dorito face was a orkut invention
fuck off already
>>79369066
I don't agree with him, but that's wrong.
You are limiting yourself to utilitarian ethics. You can also think of ethics deontologically.
Read up on it.
>>79368676
>unconscious people are currently sentient while also being unconscious which is the opposite of sentience
I just can't... you're too stupid for me to even care anymore.
>>79369284
Against a left wing dictatorship*
>>79368973
I never said sentience and intelligence were related.
But if a baby and a dog both are sentient, but a dog is still more intelligent and self aware then a child, the point still stands.
>Decamp Professor of Bio-Ethics at Princeton University ignited a firestorm of controversy, though his ideas about abortion and infanticide were hardly new. In 1979 he wrote, “Human babies are not born self-aware, or capable of grasping that they exist over time. They are not persons”; therefore, “the life of a newborn is of less value than the life of a pig, a dog, or a chimpanzee.”1
>>79369001
A fetus being organism is irrelvant to personhood.
So your argument was stupid and pointless to begin with.
There is literally not one shred of evidence you can put forth to demonstrate a fetus is sentient prior to the development.
I believe you lost this argument when you started moving goalposts and then harped on a typo.
>become sentient
See this where you fail.
Sentient is no dependent on a temporal state , its a condition of being capable.
Your logic is as follows.
Normal person.
>That ferrarri is fast.
You
>No it isnt because its parked.
Whose the autistic one here?
>>79369021
because its aware and can feel and perceive.
>>79360610
American education runs on pure maymay's.
>>79369284
>we are simply not discussing this here you fucking retard
No, we are discussing a red herring put up by you to derail us from the true issue: America keeps Latin America unstable to keep us down in order to get easy access to our natural resources and to keep us as pawns in international geo-politics.
>>79369068
>same level of sentience
yes they do because sentience has no levels.
congrats you dont know the definiton of sentience.
Do you know what mutually exclusive is?
>>79369425
>whose is the autistic one here?
i think I'll let the rest of the people on this thread tell you
I've had enough keks for today mi' boy
>>79369173
>It's not actively preventing someone from eating if you don't pay more taxes to give the poor of your country more food.
Do you have any working brain matter at all or do you only read what you want to read? Let me outline this for you.
>woman gets knocked up
>dumb enough to get knocked up but smart enough to know she can't afford to raise it
>woman wants to abort
>can't abort because you pushed through a law to ban abortion
>forced to give birth and watch the child she can't afford to feed die of starvation
Nothing about that process involves welfare, but of course we do have welfare so what will actually happen is instead.
>gets on the dole
>can now feed the kid but is still too dumb to raise it
>kid is now worthless to society at best or a criminal who will get the 'three hots and a cot' welfare
Why are there so many slags in the prisons and on welfare??
t. you
>>79361814
I've always found it disturbing the mental gymnastics and word games "pro-choice" people will play to convince themselves they aren't really killing a baby.
>>79369355
>You can also think of ethics deontologically.
If I wanted to have no connection to reality or the situation i apply ethics too.
>>79369529
the keks were all mine newfag
>>79368239
Not that guy, but the answer may be : unconcious person already have a fully developed brain cortex and neurosystem to be able to become sentient without further brain development while foetus' brain is still developing and cant become sentient at that given time.
>>79369425
>because its aware and can feel and perceive
A baby is not self aware. It may be sentient, but so is a dog. A dog is also more intelligent then a newborn.
You keep going round in circles.
>>79369490
Why the fuck would you just assume that, the only thing that was basically proven that happened was that they supported a right wing dicatatorship that was opposing to a left wing dictatorship, Brazil and south americal would be far worse of if we had a communist dicatorship
>>79360862
>This is only a problem in rural schools.
I went to a rural school in Kansas and we were taught evolution.
>>79362664
I disagree with abortion morally but understand its necessity as coon control
>>79362255
I'd ask if the mother wanted the child
>>79360610
Heh I don't need creationism to tell you that chopping your unborn baby up and sucking it out is going to fuck you in the head bad.
>>79369577
Of all the arguments I've hear in favour of utilitarian ethics and against deontological ethics, that's the weakest. You shouldn't discuss subjects you haven't studied.
Shills talking to shills. Pathetic.
>>79360610
Anon, there's literally nothing wrong with that picture.
>pseudoscientific
>>79369678
>just assume
Like I said, you have to read books. Otherwise you don't know what's going on and you just blindly believe everything you don't agree with is an assumption.
>communist dictatorship
I never defended one, you're the one ASSUMING one would've taken place weren't for our "valiant saviours", the Americans.
>>79369771
At least it keeps them out of the other threads.
>>79369760
ethics is about making a choice about what is moral or not in a given situation.
>deontological
>action's adherence to a rule or rules
basing your ethics on pre-determined and completely arbitrary rules is actually an amoral posistion.
Robots are amoral, because they follow rules and dont make any moral judgement of their own.
This is why "just following orders" isnt moral, its a lack of morality.
Seems you didnt really think this through.
Why the fuck are you niggas arguing about being sentient or not.
This is simple. Has it formed a brain? Yes, keep it, no, kill it if you wish.
Gives plenty of time for sluts to find out and abort, and doesn't get into the nastiness of arguments that is post-brain formation.
>>79360610
American education
It's literally just propaganda. Like what's even the point of going to school there?
Abortion should be legal
Babbies don't have rights until they come out the vagina
>>79369998
Basing your ethics on what's useful or "convenient" on any given time essentially means your morals are volatile, because sooner or later it's going to be convenient to have someone dead, and then you'll commit murder.
Seems like you didn't really think this through.
>>79360610
Voting for new Prime minister is tomorrow, if Bill Shorten gets elected children will be taught in Australia that pansexual, gender fluid, trannies are "normal". you can't make this up.
>>79369886
>go read a book
>go find the arguments that I dont have
OF COURSE that Joao Gulart was trying to put a communist dictatorship, he simply followed all the steps that any other Latind Communist dictator did to implant their own left-wing dictatorship, not assuming thathe would implant his own would not only be reckless but absurd as well
>btw you are a fucking moron
>>79360610
Why the fuck is 7 smaller than 6,and the fetus turns black or white alternatively?
>>79369535
If someone isn't capable of affording a baby they shouldn't have sex.
They don't get to have an abortion because they couldn't control their nethers.
And you're arguing from an extremely biased case by case standpoint.
Because in certain cases SOME children would die because their mother couldn't afford to feed them after she wasn't allowed to abort.
If a woman has a baby it's her own stupid fault. If she can't afford to feed it it's also her own stupid fault.
You also ignore the fact that there are numerous ways for children to be fed not even including welfare.
1. Poor people could put their children up for adoption if they can't take care of it
2. When children go to public schools they get free food and there are a lot of children who survive off of that.
3. There are child protection services whose job it is to take children away from parents who can't feed them.
And it's starting to look like your argument is
"parents should be allowed to kill their children to prevent them from dying (from starvation)"
But this is all ignoring the point that abortion is murder and not giving poor people food or money is not murder.
>>79370218
João Goulart only happened because the American-backed military forced Jânio Quadros out. Are you going to say the moralist Jânio was going to implant a communist dictatorship as well?
>I know 0 of Brazilian History: The Post
>>79369646
I don't think there would be a lot of people would agree that the physical maturity of the brain is a determining factor of personhood.
>>79370344
>if someone isn't capable of affording a baby they shouldn't have sex
What about LGBTBBQ+++-++ you fucking bigot homophobic racist trump supporting hillbilly?
>>79370256
CAUSE SEVEN EIGHT NINE!
>>79370370
Haha what founts do you have that the CIA was involved in Janio`s RESIGMENT?
>or are you just going to assume that
>oh you already did
>>79370256
Are you hueblind?
>>79370089
A
FUCKING
LEAF
>>79370150
>le slippyslope
>the rules say to kill
problem much for deontology?
call it whatever you want.
A deontogical position is incapable of morality, since the decision was already made by someone else.
It is by defintion amoral.
So, by default, the only moral decision is the one where you make the choice.
>>79360610
>Teaching the science behind each stage of development.
>IT IS THE SAME THING AS CREATIONISM!
u wot m8?
>>79370661
A
BUNCH
OF
FUCKING
STARS
>>79369508
>Sentience is the capacity to feel, perceive, or experience subjectively
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentience
>feel
A babies feelings are happy, hungry, sad, scared. Even childern don't have the level of capacity for different emotions until puberty.
http://www.child-encyclopedia.com/emotions/according-experts/emotional-development-childhood
http://moderndogmagazine.com/articles/which-emotions-do-dogs-actually-experience/32883
http://www.mnn.com/family/pets/stories/are-dogs-capable-complex-emotions
>Among humans, children begin to experience empathy and what are called secondary emotions when they are around 2 years old.
While a full grown dog can feel as complex emotions as a 2 year old.
Dogs can obvious perceive far greater then humans.
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/articles/dogsenses.htm
And while a dog can be self aware, a new born cannot pass the mirror test for 18 months, demonstrating a lack of self awareness which is essential to perceive subjectivity, else there is only ego.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subjective_character_of_experience
In all three components, a full grown adult dog outmatches a newborn, hence displaying greater "sentience" then it.
>>79370695
Shit didnt noticed that extreme use of the sliperry slope fallacy there
He is a bigger moron now then he already was
>>79370344
>If someone isn't capable of affording a baby they shouldn't have sex.
So you're screaming at a wall telling it to do something that you know won't happen? Humans are programmed to fuck, in the same way they are programmed to breathe. The only thing you can do is control births by any means neccessary.
>They don't get to have an abortion because they couldn't control their nethers.
I'll reemphasize it is the child and the society at large that will pay the heaviest price not the irresponsible parents.
>If a woman has a baby it's her own stupid fault.
So long as abortion is allowed you correct but as I said before if you outlaw the remedy to the problem then you are taking on responsibility for the negative outcome. For these women aborting is probably the most intelligent choice they will ever make and you want to deny it to them?
>1. Poor people could put their children up for adoption if they can't take care of it
Unrealistic, the adoption system already can't handle the load.
>2. When children go to public schools they get free food and there are a lot of children who survive off of that.
Free school lunches aren't welfare?
>3. There are child protection services whose job it is to take children away from parents who can't feed them.
And put them in foster/adoption which as stated already can't handle the load and is an unrealistic solution.
>"parents should be allowed to kill their children to prevent them from dying (from starvation)"
Well I am for mercy killing.
>But this is all ignoring the point that abortion is murder and not giving poor people food or money is not murder.
Given that I have literally copy and pasted half this post I shouldn't be surprised by that we've come back to where we started. You still want to misrepresent this as 'no obligation to give' even as you deny remedies to the problem.
>>79370812
51 to be exact. Well, at least there is supposed to be 51, only, it is just that... one of our states is too lowly to be considered a state... because the people there put their milk in bags.
We've tried to educate you all so that your star can be put in our flag, but you just won't listen.
>>79370695
>by definition
By what definition? The arbitrary one you came up with here >>79369998?
Morals to me are about a distinction between good and evil, not about some relativistic "muh feelings say you have to make your own decision and not let somebody else decide for you" shit.
Somebody else decided for me murder is wrong and I'm completely okay with that decision. Murder is never going to be okay for me because it's a set in stone rule. For you there's no rule, so one day it might be convenient to kill and enemy. Or to steal to benefit your own family/party/project/something. Or whatever. And that's not a slippery slope, because it relies on rational argument, and a slippery slope doesn't, get your logical fallacies straight, otherwise you'll just keep embarrassing yourself by showing everyone how little of philosophy you know by thrashing deontology and being an illiterate at logic.
>>79370960
>We've tried to educate you all so that your star can be put in our flag, but you just won't listen.
They never listen.
>>79370451
maybe we can abort them instead
>>79370643
This. Have a good reading.
>>79364801
In your case in particular I think they should still abort you regardless of your age.
>>79369425
"personhood" is not scientific term so your argument is kind of shit to begin with 2bh m8
>>79371134
Good idea
>>79360610
>should abortion be legal in the US
why not? Sodom needs to keep its population down.
>would I ever enter a relationship with a girl that would get an abortion
hell no. It pretty much says everything about her instincts as a mother and a female.
It is objective scientific fact that life begins at conception. This literally cannot be argued. A zygote fulfills every single accepted definition of biological life. Period.
The abortion argument is disguised by feminists. The real argument is that they believe feminism, sexual positivity, and life free of consequence are more important than human life. This would obviously sound distasteful to many so they simply pretend that at some magical arbitrary point the embryo becomes alive.
>>79370872
>Humans are programmed to fuck, in the same way they are programmed to breathe. The only thing you can do is control births by any means neccessary.
I'm 22 I've had 3 girlfriends and I still didn't get any women pregnant despite my being able to afford a child.
It's called self control.
Not having self-control does not remove blame for your actions.
>i am for mercy killing
Mercy killing requires someone being in pain and asking you to kill them.
Last time I checked there aren't many people whose parents decided not to abort them that wish that they were aborted after all.
>>79362536
>those illustrations
>>79371397
>life begins at conception
But is it human?
>>79360610
I majored in developmental biology at university
>the professors used the phase "once you understand the process of human development it becomes very difficult to support abortion"
>even the triggered fembots came to this conclusion
>>79371557
>I majored in developmental biology at university
Cool, I'll have a Café Au Lait with no sugar please.
>>79370854
And that whole wall of text doesn't deny that newborns are sapient.
All that bullshit you typed related to levels of intelligence.
Since you think intelligence has anything to do with sentience, then you have just shown you do not know what your talking about.
Also, you miss the other glaring difference.
Sentience + HUMAN = Personhood
>Subjective character of experience
since experience is subjective you cannot measure it objectively to compare it to other experience.
This is why "more sentient" is just as an absurd statement as "more dead" is.
SO you fail on all fronts.
(((Rose)))
>>79367593
>Fetuses... at the time of being a fetus aren't sentient/sapient/intelligent/ whatever your arbitrary qualifier of personhood is.
Neither are people in coma, under anesthesia, or one might argue, even sleeping or heavy drugs. And we don't go out of our way to kill them too. Well, I guess the left is sure trying.
>>79360610
I like how they made it a rainbow to appeal to the gays
>>79371557
I may have majored in English, but at least I didn't major in developmental biology.
>>79371775
Her page's timeline is open, feel free to shitpost on it:
facebook/lilagracerose
>>79371072
>Relativistic "muh feelings say you have to make your own decision and not let somebody else decide for you" shit.
Thats what deontology is. You have to obey someone else's feelings and arbitrary decision.
>murder
is just a word.
Murder has a different definition in every legal system.
>look im using social constructs to prove social constructs.
circular logic is circular logic is circular logic is circular logic is circular logic
>>79370660
Oops, no. I'm on my phone with night reading (blue filtering) on, so it appeared 2 colors. I didn't notice it was on.
>>79371687
>Brazil
>>79371746
>Sentience is the capacity to feel, perceive, or experience subjectively
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentience
More sentience equals more capacity. By definition which you can't seem to read.
Also what this anon said:
>>79371331
That's not a scientific term. You made it up. There's nothing scientific about "HUMAN" in your equation that magically makes "Personhood".
Like I said. You use rationale and science as an excuse until it's no longer convenient.
>>79372001
Doesn't it hurt to be employed at a coffee shop when a filthy huezillian not only has a better job, but also doesn't tip you because you got his drink wrong?
>>79371935
this wounds my fickle pride, how will I ever recover???
>>79371810
sigh... that's literally the point I was making...
come on people.
Two now tried to counter my anti-abortion arguments with anti-abortion arguments.
>>79371072
Also lets visit the fact that you seem to contend murder is bad because someone said dont murder.
Instead of murdering being bad because of its consequences and how it harms others.
Oh but then you have to accept the consequential position.
Deontological ethics are those of a 3 year old's moral rational.
>its bad because mommy said no.
>>79372138
>any job in brazil < homelessness in aus
>>79371971
>murder is just a social construct
You're either braindead or a troll. Either way, I don't know why I'm arguing with you.
>>79372230
How about murdering Hitler?
>b-but m-muh principles
Ah, so suddenly consequences don't matter?
Go die in a fire or something.
>>79371542
It has human DNA in a diploid form, so objectively yes.
>>79372111
>More sentience equals more capacity.
No such thing as more sentient.
Your fucking stupid.
Show me the scale of sentience.
>>79371331
>>79372111
thank you for pointing out this stupid argument.
The entire abortion argument is a point of LAW, not medicine.
This why we argue personhood and not humanity.
>>79372382
Hurry up with that coffee, willya?
I don't understand. How hard is it to not get knocked up? This seems like a severe personal responsibility issue more than anything.
As a man, if I get a women pregnant by accident and she doesn't abort, that child turns into her meal ticket for the next 18 years and I have no so say in the matter. As soon as men have the same rights as women, in regards to abortion, I am anti-abortion being that it relies heavily on personal responsibility.
As it is now, girls can go around fucking who ever they want, get an abortion or legally steal money from someone who doesn't want a child.
>>79362944
Cancer cells don't develop into a fully functioning human as far as we know.
>>79372417
>murder isn't a social construct
did murder exist before societies of humans?
If not, then its a social construct made up by communities of people to describe something.
I believe we found the braindead troll.
>How about murdering Hitler?
>muh principles
why did you just restate your deontological position as if it were my position.
Follow the conversation dummy. Im on the utilitarian side of this argument.
>>79372674
>no one ever killed anybody else before we started organizing ourselves as societies
>>79372431
so a solitary human skin cell is also a human?
>>79372802
more than one human living together = society
know you have the correct definition of society.
if you disagree than point to an example of murder in nature.
>>79372802
>>79372971
in other words
killing is an objective fact of nature.
murder is an abstract concept.
Life starts at conception. A feotus is alive.
>>79372971
>>79373185
>murder
>An act of deliberate killing of another being, especially a human.
>society
>A long-standing group of people sharing cultural aspects such as language, dress, norms of behavior and artistic forms.
The reason why everything you said from the beginning of this discussion is wrong is because all your definitions are wrong. From the definition of morals to the definition of society.
Nice try though, almost got me.
>>79360610
Abortion is immoral because you are killing a living human who had no choice to be created. You are destroying any future it had because somehow, you had sex and didn't prevent it. Aborting nonwhite babies is fine because they are subhuman and wouldn't amount to anything. It's not really a hard concept to grab. I don't know why liberals spout the mental abilities of babies when it comes to abortion, but they willingly avoid the subject when it comes to niggers. If this comparative narrative is what they want, why don't we abort black babies because they are statistically likely to be beneath whites? Why don't we abort Jewish babies too, while we're at?
>>79373562
I know this is satire, but you do know that the Jewish perform above whites on average, right?
>>79372432
>Sentience is the CAPACITY* to feel, perceive, or experience subjectively
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentience
>Noun:
>capacity(plural capacities)
>The ability to hold, receive or absorb
>A measure of such ability; volume The maximum amount that can be held It was hauling a capacity load.
>The orchestra played to a capacity crowd.
>Capability; the ability to perform some task
>The maximum that can be produced.
>Mental ability; the power to learn
>A faculty; the potential for growth and development
https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/capacity
It's in the VERY DEFINITION that YOU GAVE ME you autistic fuck.
>>79368418
See right there.
The only way you can argue is to make up your own definitions of words, and when that fails, demand proofs when the whole of the English dictonary is against you.
I hate it when people confuse sentience with sapience.
Because many Americans think "equality" means everyone can do anything just as well as anyone else, and that includes thinking and reasoning.
>“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
― Isaac Asimov
I just don't get why people who abort have sex in the first place.
I'm all for abortions when it's like a fucking cell. But people get abortions when their child has a fucking head and limbs and shit. And they don't just kill the baby in some humane way, they pick apart at it with pliers and shit. Decapitate it,crush the skull, cut off its arms, and then take out the bloody pieces one by one.
Why do people support this?
>>79363578
hispanics come from a shithole with a corrupt government
vote everytime to give the government more rights
literally subhuman retards
>>79374482
Mass immigration is the single biggest threat to American beliefs and your Constitution. The second amendments strongest supporters are rural whites, guess how well that demographic is doing?
>>79375182
yeah its pretty shitty. It makes me slightly happy knowing if shitskins take over they will fuck everything up though
>>79370755
Teaching pro-life horseshit is the same thing as creationism.
