>"The Socialist Left is the problem."
t. /pol/
>>79282224
So the 9.99% below the top 1% has more than 50% percent of America's wealth?
Interesting
wtf I hate obama now
>>79282224
Weird, it's almost like the inequality doubled ever since the neoliberal "left" took permanent ruling positions
>>79282956
Exactly.
Yet, /pol/ thinks for some reason that increasing Socialism is the issue.
It will eventually prove Marx right. The wealthy will gradually bring the entire system down on their heads. A true Marxist is a capitalist.
>>79282224
As more leftist policies are made the less social mobility is experienced by society, of course the rich gets even richer as few key business profit from it.
>>79282810
Why? Clearly you can see from this graph that the trend dates back to ~1987. That's at least, 3 Bush terms, 2 Clinton terms and 2 Obama terms.
>>79282956
No one in America considers Reagan to be a leftist.
wtf i hate robots now
>>79283124
Actually the wealthy is not the sole responsible, the State itself makes the existence of super wealth possible.
If you can't see that you're being fucked there is no hope for you.
>>79282224
If you kill all the jews you automatically solve the 1% problem.
However the left is too busy inviting muslims into europe and legalizing degeneracy.
The inequality has reached and absolutely staggering level.
>>79283437
>the worker is solely responsible for the increased productivity and should be compensated in kind.
Yeah, nah not true.
>>79283581
Not the argument.
This is truly batshit insane.
>>79283506
That's part of key arguments in favor of libertarianism.
>>79283709
Yes it is, also social democracy.
>>79282224
>clinton gives our jobs to mexico in 93
>bush gives our jobs to china in 2001
>>79283120
it's almost like you completely misinterpreted what he said
>>79283376
Government is merely the shadow cast over society by big business. America is an extreme example but more often than not policies are shaped more by how much money you have and give a candidate.
>>79283776
You're leaving out the first guy.
>>79283776
Some would argue that it started when Nixon detached the dollar from gold and then really kicked into gear with Reagan's neo-liberalism.
>>79283370
Funny how capitalism suddenly chose 1971 as the year to stop working. It really makes you think.
Or maybe it's not just a coincidence that that's when the US severed the gold standard and started giving freshly printed money to the rich...
You can have all the free shit and communism you want here in the US, it's still not going to punish the mega rich, THEY DON'T FUCKING PAY TAXES HERE.
The mega rich are "globalists", they have their money stashed overseas in untouchable banks. You could raise the tax rate to 100% and they wouldn't blink a fucking eye, it won't impact them.
There is no hope for you OP if you can't see that the people who make up the 1% can not be touched by your small minded "durrr hurrr muh tax".
You need tarrifs and NATIONALISM to stop the outside pests from sucking us dry.
NATIONAL SOCIALISM
>>79282956
>starts falling in 1986/1987
>reagan
>neoliberal
>>79283773
Actually social democracy is what brought US to the current state of extreme inequality, free societies without artificial mechanisms of wealth distribution share the lowest level of inequality possible in post-industrial human societies.
>>79284010
That's one of the main causes certainly.
>>79284190
I'm not arguing with you on this anon, but the types of things Sanders is proposing were not the cause of this. This was our own brand of neo-liberalism, detaching from the gold standard and a government increasingly in control of the top .01% at the expense of everyone else below 1%.
>>79284167
Most conservatives will not agree but that's the truth
>>79284167
Reagan started neo-liberal policies. There is no arguing this and no one disputes this. Off-shoring and deregulation.
>>79284167
Neo-liberal means neo-conservative in Europe.
>>79284214
It gets worse every year. Get ready for the next crash, the sovereign debt crisis. Basically the mortgage/banking crisis part 2. Except now it's the people who bailed out the banks who need bailing out. The solution as always will be more printed money. This time from the IMF. Maybe... unless there's a total loss of confidence in the markets in which case everyone defaults and new national currencies will likely be formed backed by commodities, likely gold. Or if that doesn't happen, chaos.
>>79284348
I love how sanders wants to make things even worse. He wants to push the Fed to keep interest rates even LOWER. Where does he think all that cheap fed money goes to? The working class? It's the cause of the entire wealth inequality problem.
>>79284348
> but the types of things Sanders is proposing were not the cause of this
Actually Sanders policies would lead to even lower social mobility, even bigger government expending and power.
>>79284552
You seem knowledgable about this topic. So, what happens if the people and the gov are out of money and can't be bailed out. Does this mean that the banks can repo the whole county?
>>79282224
That graph looks like Austria.
Coincidence? I think not
>>79283437
>filename says reagan
>the "Great Regression" starts before he's even in office or does anything
People who think Reagan represents free market capitalism are retarded.
>>79284552
How would that work if so? What happens in a huge portion of the country needs to pay up including the gov and no one has the money to do so?
>>79284860
you realize reagan was elected in '80, right?
>>79283619
yes it is, that graph argues that a rise in productivity should be matched with a rise in pay as shown in the "the great prosperity" side and arguing that the rise in productivity post 1980 should've have been matched with a rise in pay. If this isnt your argument then know that that is the argument the graph implies.
>>79284904
Weimar Germany
>>79285262
That is my argument and the argument in the image, that is not what the other guy was saying it was.
>>79284748
If the government can't pay it's debts, they default. Happens all the times in shitty countries. But it means they would have a very very hard time borrowing more money if they do. This would be a calamity for most western countries which have high debts like the US, as most government spending would have to stop immediately because there is not nearly enough money in the tax base alone to cover their obligations. Some expect that if this happened in the US, they would create a new dollar to replace the old one, and back it by gold. This would immediately restore confidence in the currency and the US could borrow again. I've heard talk over the years that the US has planned internally for the scenario should it occur.
>Does this mean that the banks can repo the whole county?
That's not a realistic scenario. Banks don't like repoing things. They only repo a house so they can immediately sell it to get some of their money back. If the economy goes to shit and the people who they gave mortgages to can't pay for them, but can pay just as much for them as anyone else on the market right now then there's no benefit for them to repo. They rather just renegotiate the debt and cut their losses. There's a lot of complex scenario's that can happen in a financial catastrophe. Hyperinflation can make debt disappear. Strong deflation can quickly make it default. Both are possibilities.
>>79282224
>The globalist AND domestic socialist left, who voluntarly prostitutes itself for a elitaristic neo liberal globalist pipe dream, is the problem
Fixed it for you.
btw, welfare state IS the problem, as it makes it irrational to inovate.
>>79284904
They default. Basically the fear people had of happening to countries since 2008.
or the can do >>79285298 and print new money to pay the debt. But in the end it's the same as a default.
>>79285185
He was inaugurated in '81. How does the mere election of Reagan cause the "great regression?"
This line of questioning is meaningless anyways, Reagan nor republicans in general have ever been pro free market. He increased income taxes, he increased capital gains taxes, , he not only continued the war on drugs but fueled it more so than Nixon, and was an interventionist (into the economy and foreign affairs). It just baffles me how people attack Reagan and declare victory over free market capitalists or libertarians.
>>79285517
I think your scenario where the IMF and the World Bank bail out the West is the likely plan for this scenario, but it would start with a default. So it looks like many people in our nation would go broke and the gov would have to cut most spending.
Thanks man, just one more question.
If the US defaults, roughly how long would it be until the IMF and World Bank would be able to bail us out and bring stability back?
>>79282224
t. New to /pol/
It's almost like social policies weren't a thing until the 60s. Weird huh
>>79285726
>. It just baffles me how people attack Reagan and declare victory over free market capitalists or libertarians.
I hope you're not talking about me, because I haven't argued that this was the free market or libertarians.
>where the problem starts has to do with who on in charge at that time
Hey retards, were you never told that legislation has a delayed effect, sometime decades and I'd argue possibly centuries?
If a problem manifests itself in the 60's, it's not because it was created then
>>79285833
Referring to the people talking about "neoliberals." I often see that term thrown around here in libertarian threads.
>>79285874
>legislation takes decades or centuries to have any kind of measurable effect
>>79285738
>If the US defaults, roughly how long would it be until the IMF and World Bank would be able to bail us out and bring stability back?
If the IMF bails anyone out, it would be to prevent a default happening. I'm not sure if they could do as much after someone defaults. Especially the US. If the US defaulted, european countries would soon follow because there would be a market panic. This is why europe was so so SO worried about greece defaulting. Even though they are tiny, if they defaulted it would cause a panic and spread to other countries and then it might not be controllable.
Also be aware, the IMF only holds currencies of other countries. So if trust in national currencies collapses, then so to will trust in anything the IMF can offer.
Short answer: I don't think the IMF could do much for you if you defaulted. The US could get back on it's feet pretty quick though if it backed the dollar with a stable commodity. That will depend a lot on the people in power being willing to do that though which is not at all a given.
>>79282224
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ7LzE3u7Bw
related.
>>79285517
Basically the US are sitting on a ticking time bomb with low interest rates, right? Once the interest rates go up, they will see much more defaults and much fewer investments or any scale. No new machinery, factories, jobs, anything. Big recession. And if the US never ever increases the interest rate, they have to take more and more debt up until no one will lend them money, crashing the worthless dollar.
muhhhhh 1%
ITS IRRELEVANT, what matters is average people are much richer than world average and ITS SUSTAINABLE
LOWER TAXES FOR ALL AND GIVE MENTAL HEALTHCARE FOR LIBERALS, that's the right social policy
>>79286437
exactly. I recall reading if US bond yields rose to 3% or something pretty low like that, it would consume the entire tax base to pay the interest on them.
Don't forget though. If the dollar crashes, we are all totally fucked.
Buy gold folks.
>>79284859
SHUT IT DOWN
>>79286403
Look at how he uses a different number of countries in each of his statistics. Almost like he deliberately excludes countries with data contradicting his theories.
23 Countries (all western countries, including Singapore and Israel, but not Swiss and Canada)
21 Countries (Now with Switzerland and Canada, goodbye Singapore and Isreal)
at 7:00, 12 Countries excluding all of scandinavia and portugal, but keeping spain and New Zealand)
30 seconds later, Scandinavia makes a comeback with first entrance Greece and Ireland. And Singapore is back too. No China, no Poland or Russia, fucking Singapore.
8:24 11 Countries, excluding Spain, cause every other European country matter and Australia.
Fuck off with your fucking TED talk bullshit.
>>79286021
decades is given. You have to be a brain dead retard to not think anh changes to the economy are felt instantly
I argue centuries because things like changes to voting and government structure take a long time to accumulate
I would argue the reason congress ceded so much power to the executive is largely because of the changes to how the senate is voted in
The top 1 percent: Americans who earned an adjusted gross income of $410,096 or more accounted for 22.8 percent of all wages. But they paid 40.4 percent of total reported income taxes, an increase from 39.9 percent in 2006, according to the IRS.
The top 5 percent: Americans who earned $160,041 or more accounted for 37.4 percent of all wages in 2007. But they paid 60.6 percent of the country's total reported income taxes, up from 60.1 percent a year earlier.
The top 10 percent: Americans who earned at least $113,018 paid 71.2 percent of the nation's income taxes, up from 70.8 percent a year earlier.
The top 25 percent: Americans who earned at least $66,532 paid 86.6 percent of the nation's income taxes, up from 86.3 percent a year earlier.
The top 50 percent: Americans who earned at least $32,879 paid 97.1 percent of the nation's income taxes, up from 97 percent a year earlier.
The bottom 50 percent: Americans who earned less than $32,879 paid 2.9 percent of the nation's income taxes, down from 3 percent a year earlier.
>>79283120
>European education
>>79282956
The thing is that there's barely any left left in the United States. They've abolished worker unions and fully embraced the neoliberal free market bullshit. To see this all you need is to google how much the government is pushing TTIP and TTP which are pretty much about giving more power to the elites and multinationals. The "democractic" Clinton will sign that agreement in a hearth beat and you can rest assured that the income inqueality will increase even more and they'll just blame brexit or terrorism or something.
https://stop-ttip.org/blog/we-the-people/
>>79287579
>They've abolished worker unions
wut
>>79282224
In addition.
>>79287579
>I'm responsible for Brexit
Neoliberalism seems like a cool guy, he should hang around.
>>79282224
>vote left to fight inequality
>school now has vegetarian food
>dudes on road signs now have skirts
>thanks left
>>79286403
This is /pol/, so you should expect this coming, but what would that chart look like without niggers?
>>79287579
>They've abolished worker unions
>>79287579
Blablabla, therefore toleranza.
fucking marxistes.
>>79288153
>>79287719
Seems I confused articles on criticism against labor unions with actual action, but never the less based on what I've read they've been weakened thanks to corruption.
>>79288979
> they've been weakened thanks to corruption.
This is true but it's not really that the unions have been weakened so much as they've been completely misused by the mafia which have been running them for the last 70+ years in the US.
>>79282956
>neoliberal
>left
if only you dumbshits would stop adopting retarded american rhetoric you wouldn't make these mistakes
>>79282224
>le socioeconomic brackets meme
If you actually think this graph tells you anything at all, you're an illiterate goy and a very good goy at that. How many people are there in each group over that time? What is the average income for each group over that time?
>>79289792
>what is a percentage
>>79290164
Percentage of wealth means precisely nothing. When you get a paycheck do you get it in percentage? When you go to the store and buy something do you pay it in percentage? The only people who measure income and wealth as percent """"""shares"""""" are socialists and commies because they believe in the zero-sum economy religion.
>>79287379
The fact that he excludes countries on certain graphs doesn't necessarily mean that they contradict with his theories. We are talking about many different countries with their own laws, religions and very different cultural and social values that can heavily influence the graphs. It would be stupid and simplistic to think that income inequality is the sole reason for things shown in the graphs.
>>79289792
>If you actually think this graph tells you anything at all, you're an illiterate goy and a very good goy at that.
The "good goy" would be someone that keeps the system running, despite knowing that it doesnt do any good for him.
>>79284543
stop shitposting they are called neo-cons for a reason
>>79283120
>Germans
>Reading
It seems that liberal rapebabbies are still unable to get the basic reading comprehension
Sage, report, ignore.
>>79282224
Hey, that graph kinda looks like Austria
>>79292166
That said, most graphs look kinda like Austria.
>>79283120
increasing socialist policy IS the issue
>>79292362
Quite the contrary.
What most of the industrial nations increasingly saw since 1980 has been market liberalism.
>>79290514
In a system where money equals political power, who has more power; a group that countrols 90% of the wealth or a group that controls 10% of the wealth?
>>79287811
And that red line will keep descending until it meets the median income of India and China.
I hope you're all happy with your Free Market Overlord.
>>79287857
>Neoliberalism seems like a cool guy, he should hang around.
The thing is that neoliberals didn't want Trump or Brexit to happen, their forced ideals just gave birth to rise of populism in Europe that's now taking for in many ways. Of course they will never admit it themselves and will continue to blame us, the people for their crimes.
However now that the most Neoliberal state in the EU has left, things are getting exciting.
>>79293096
>However now that the most Neoliberal state in the EU has left
That would still be Ireland.
Otherwise, agreed.
>>79283163
So 4 Democrat terms and 3 Republican terms. Interesting, huh.
>>79290988
The problem is that he randomly includes Singapore, a random country in South East Asia, or Israel in his comparison and not Spain or Greece when these countries have a lot more in common with the Western world. If he would be consistent and include all the OECD countries, he could make a valid point, but it really seems he specifically excludes some data that doesn't support his cause. How can one compare the laws religion and cultural/social values of Singapore and the US and not Canada and the US?
Also the measures are highly debatable, some weird measure of child well-being ranking Greece higher than the UK. Or the measurement of "trust"
His claim is that the economic equality in a country harms the society, and he is therefore stupid and simplistic.
>>79293347
I can tell you, without looking at any statistic, that the social problems in Spain and Greece worsened since they were forced into austerity and neoliberal reforms.
>>79284167
>implying neo-liberalism wasn't the stated goals of reagan's second term
>implying milton freidman didn't push for neo-liberal policies
neo-liberal =/= leftist/regressive
>>79293544
So it's not inherently the economic inequality, but rather a recession?
>>79282224
Most "socialist" in America are not even real socialists like Bernie. They give gibsmedats, but they favor business than the people
>>79293544
> Greece enforced Austerity
But is that really the case?
>>79282224
>The west has become more socialist
>At the same time wealth inequality has risen
>OP somehow thinks more socialism will solve this
I'm litterary in tears at the stupidity of OP right now
>>79284167
Neoliberalism transcends the left-right spectrum.
>>79282956
>>79283120
It's a prevalent trend in any captialist country. This isn't a political issue.
>>79282224
>>79283370
>>79283437
>>79283506
>>79283564
>>79283690
>>79283853
Listen you fucking moron this isnt a conservative board
GAS THE FUCKING KIKES and this will go away.
>>79296102
GAS THE BIKES, ROAD RACE NOW
>>79295833
>>The west has become more socialist
You ain't much into economy, are you?
>>79282224
The ledt is what makes the right rich, so yeah, one is a bigger problem than the other.
>>79295833
>>The west has become more socialist
USA in the 50s had stronger unions and less wealth inequality.
>>79293550
Neoliberals actually promote a lot of the SJW shit. It's why they are so pro-Islam and pro-immigration.
>>79296341
>You ain't much into economy, are you?
Most certainly am, but what's it matter to you? You probably think what happened in Venezuela wasn't "real socialism". No matter what happens, you will always blame the capitalists. Better dead than red.
>>79296830
>Medicare is socialism
Spending increased because of the fucking boomers.
>>79282224
No, we say that the globalist left is the problem
>>79282224
The socialist left has consolidated all the wealth into the top 0.1% according to your graph.
>>79282224
>"The rich aren't rich because the poor are poor"
t. Warren Buffett
>>79292492
>most of the industrial nations
Well what the US saw was a massive rise in socialism.
>>79287579
Neoliberalism is not just associated with conservative political figures. Also
>implying that Trump is a neoliberal
Fuck off berntard.
>>79296830
>Source: Heritage Foundation research
Literally Kock-suckers
>>79282224
>2016
>there are faggots who still dont realize that neocons like the Bush family are just Democrats that appeal to a different demographic thats equally as stupid as the left's
>>79296703
The USA in the 50s had just exited the second world war absolutely victorious and with its navy claiming control of the world's oceans while every other major country was broken into pieces.
>>79283124
t. Soros
>>79287579
>image
Saying neoliberalism was responsible for Brexit is like saying the Napoleon was responsible for the Seventh coalition.
Blatantly poor framing.
>>79282224
So what this graph is saying is that Germany is about to invade/annex a neighbor and start World War 3 right?
>>79283376
Wealth necessitates a state of some kind. Anarcho-capitalism would collapse back into statism on day one.
>>79283163
>thinks the Bushs and Clintons are different people
Yikes, stay neutral
>>79282224
>"The Socialist Left is the problem."
said Ronald Reagan
>>79296830
Where's the Heritage Foundation's chart on corporate welfare that's orders of magnitude greater?
>>79297502
He's still right though. Capitalism is inherently self destructive.
>>79297779
Like how communism works with omnivorous species?
>>79292616
That's a fair point. But a graph that just breaks down percentages and income brackets really hides the reality of what's going on. A graph like this doesn't really show who the people are in each year, that socio-economic brackets over time, are, for the most part, the same people in different stages of life. Over half of all Americans will wind up in the top 10% of income within their lifetime. And the vast majority of people in the top 1% of income won't be there the next year. A graph like this just makes it look like there's this constant landed elite "not sharing" their wealth with the poor.
>>79298464
Nice made up statistics bro.
>>79298464
source?
Also, where would a person have to go on a shooting spree to affect the 1-5%?
>>79296830
>What is inflation
>>79282224
>/pol/ calling liberals "useful idiots"
>are actually the usuful idiots helping the rich get richer and the poor poorer
>blame mexicans
can't make this shit up 2bh
>>79298752
the bilderberg conference in dresden
>>79297360
What is Trump then?
>>79297497
It's not only in the US. You have the same phenomenon in Britai, France and Germany.
>>79298899
>bilderberg conference in dresden
Cool thanks, I gtg. I've got a van to catch
>>79282224
Wealth inequality exists because work ethic inequality and IQ inequality exists.
>>79298853
It's because they think that mass immigration is a leftist project. It is not, it is a fucking answer to the cry for more cheap labor.
>>79282224
Socialism never solved problems like this.
Not being a retard and stopping the kike scams does however.
>>79299083
Seemingly, the top 0.1% became that much smarter since the 1980, right?
>>79299113
Exactly. So everyone had the same chance as Walmart heirs, they just didn't use it properly?
>>79298853
What's wrong with treating the symptoms of a disease when you are unable to cure it?
>>79299134
It is a leftist project. When private corporations want cheap labor they just move to a country with cheap labor, they don't destroy their market by importing the third world.
The goal of the third world invasion is destroying Western Civilization, and the left owns it.
>>79299268
Congratulations, you failed economics.
>>79299428
Most jobs ate created by the service sector nowadays, that cannot be outsourced.
>>79282224
German hates the US.
I'm no historian, but I think I've seen this before.
>>79299428
I like how conservative pro-capitalists refuse to blame blame the wealthy for this even though it is almost entirely their fault.
>>79299268
The top 0.1% of the private economy is a benefit to the country. They create jobs and innovation.
The top 0.1% that is destructive to the country is the top 0.1% of the state.
>>79299569
Never said I hate the US. I feel for their middle class.
>>79299599
I like how Marxists think a 19th century bum's delusions are going to work if only they try it again.
>>79299637
>They create jobs and innovation.
The absolute majority of jobs in every country is created by small and medium businesses, or self-employment.
>>79299726
I dislike how political imagination has been reduced to Marxism as single alternative to the current system. 19th century Marxism is as important for our discussion as feudal economics.
A market economy will work anywhere, with any population.
A socialist economy will only work with a homogeneous white northern European population.
So if you're a true-believer in socialism the first thing you need to do is start exterminating all non-Aryans.
>>79299637
>The top 0.1% of the private economy is a benefit to the country. They create jobs and innovation.
Lmao this delusion. So why is the middle class disappearing?
>>79282224
The left, yes.
Nobody said /pol/ wasn't in any way socialist, just a very particular kind of socialist famalam.
Change a culture enough and some of the more greedy and conniving folk at the top will get recognised as just that. It should be ingrained into a good culture that hoarding all the wealth in contempt of your fellow countryman is a negative behavior. In my opinion the shape of this graph is a symptom of the values of the west degenerating.
Now things have gone this far, the only left-ism that it makes any sense to see is cynical firefighting for publicity, oh wait.
>>79299494
>>79299428
And here we see what a diet of Cato Institute trash does with someone's mind.
>The goal of the third world invasion is destroying Western Civilization, and the left owns it.
Picture related, it's leftist barbarism
>>79282224
>Jews make money while others lose it
What else you got for us, water still wet? Sky still blue? Dogs still bark?
>>79282224
Seems about right since socialistic principles and government programs took off in the 60s and 70s with the "war on poverty".
>>79300112
Dig up the mass graves surrounding that monstrosity if you would like to see the leftist barbarism I refer to.
>>79300112
To be fair, almost nothing done by Communism can be held in defence of Leftist economic policies.
Every post-Communist country is left with more inequality than ever before, (Russia, East Europe, Chile) because the horrors of Communism make people accept the other extreme.
>>79299962
>A socialist economy will only work with a homogeneous white northern European population.
I think you mean, it only works in Norway. Where the politicians actually made good fiscal policies and don't seem to hate their people. We, the rest, are fucked beyond belief.
>>79299962
>you can't have markets and socialism
What the fuck are you talking about?
>>79300212
The "war on poverty" was in reality a "war to create a dependent voter block."
>>79299907
leftists refuse to cut ties with their socialist forethinkers
>>79300212
lel
Britain's welfare state in the 1960s was more generous than it was now. The War on poverty simply failed to achieve ANY meaningful results.
>>79300386
Except that didn't work. Dems lost the South. Stop reading shit by professional shills like Sowell.
>>79282224
Socialism is absolutely the problem because it insists theft can be a moral action.
>>79282224
>.mic
Fuck off
>>79298627
>>79298752
U Michigan's PSID. They've been tracking the same families incomes since the 70's and find that as they age they tend to move up the chain quite a bit over time. They've done tons & tons of studies with the data.
https://www.aei.org/publication/tracking-the-same-us-taxpayers-over-time-shows-significant-income-mobility-from-1996-to-2005/
>>79300474
America isn't socialist though.
>>79299540
service sector jobs can be outsources (see indian hotlines, programmers) it is just harder to do since you have to trust partners or go there to instruct them
>>79300386
It's almost like giving your money to (((bureaucrats))) and expecting them to pay you back equally is fucking retarded.
>>79300559
What is the most socialist nation anyway? Is it north-korea? Everyone is equal, sans the people who enforce the law.
>>79300559
Yes but the little socialism it has, has failed and is corrupted. Social security, healthcare,obamaphones, free internnet, free food, free money. You bet your ass America is a socialist. Now go out there and stop it and move torwards capitalism
*cooks burger on the grill*
>>79282224
> Bottom 90%
> Top 0.1%
Uh.. missing some percents there chief.
>>79300822
The most truly socialist in the sense that there is no exploration of people by profit-driven interests would probably be Denmarkk.
>>79300559
>t. a social security and medicare recipient boomer
>>79282224
Economy isn't a zero sum game, also >>79284010
>>79297030
spending increased as our beloved market offloads more and more risk onto taxpayers
>>79300822
North Korea today is a de facto Theocracy, whose closest equivalent is Ancient Egypt.
>>79300911
> free internet,
Nah nah. You have to fucking deal with unleashing Comcast to the world. Stop sweeping it under the rug.
>>79297107
the comintern hasn't existed for decades nigga
>>79282224
How many wealthy people have socialists created?
>>79300989
Fuck off bernfag. Programs supported by taxes on private property are not socialist.
>>79300911
Providing those in need with most necessary (just barely, as te richest economy in the World) has little to do with Socialism. That is common sense that existed even in the Middle Ages, far before the economy as a concept was well-known.
>>79300911
SS and Medicare have been a resounding success. Only because Congress looting the SS fund is it considered "unsustainable."
http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/about/Crossroads/06_13_03.html
>>79283120
I thought Germans were suppose to be smart?
>>79301162
Anyone in a car manufacturer labour union in Germany, for example.
>>79300474
what's robbing a bank compared to founding one?
>>79301182
also common was the belief that people of higher caste and worth are entitled to more wealth. so the statistic in the OP should not upset you.
>all these faggots whining about "muh 99%" and "income inequality"
Go be poor somewhere else. Your commie niggerlover candidate lost to a corporatist and she will lose to a self-made billionaire. Your tears are delicious.
If you people weren't so fucking lazy YOU could be in that top 1% you're so jealous of. Every last one of you. But instead you choose to whine like little bitches about bullshit like "waaaahhh income inequality is unfair" and "waaahhh wall street" and "waaahhh Jews" and then go back to masturbating to anime in your parents' basement. If you want socialism so badly, move to North Korea.
Also, protip: the reason you have, or would be able to have, any money at all is ENTIRELY BECAUSE of that top 1% and their wealth. The more money those at the top have, the more money the rest have. Simple economics.
>>79282428
Back in 2012, Spainards.
>>79297030
>It's not "true" socialism, because I don't like the people that use certain social programs
>>79283124
No, it won't.
>>79301392
Nice bait.
>>79286403
where's venezuela, cuba?
they don't have a inequality problem, everyone is poor.
>>79301116
Ah, you're right.
A failure of an example that was. But which nation is truly equal? So much equal to satisfy the rapid hordes of 20-year somethings out of university feminist lessons.
>>79301521
It's not about total equality. It's about a social sense of coherence that everyone gets as much as he deserves, and everyone gets enough.
Inequality is irrelevant when the bottom has cellphones, fridges, cars, money for weed etc
the only problem this country has are pro-refugee vermin scum
Capitalism isn't perfect but it's the best system ever invented.
>>79301752
In America the poor often can't even afford medical care. That's why this shit is coming up so often. If they would just give the proles healthcare most of this revolutionary BS would disappear overnight.
>>79301795
No one invented Capitalism. It existed since farmers gathered crops and sold them for changing prices.
>>79283124
marx noticed some patterns but his solutions are selfish and impractical
>>79301752
Thats in Germany, even the unemployed have all their basic needs covered under some circumstances.
Even in the richest nation in the World, the US, you can fall far deeper than that.
>>79301934
>In America the poor often can't even afford medical care.
in many states the govt provides healthcare options for the impoverished
>>79301934
they would have to create two priorities for medicare. when you have paid, you don't want to queue behind people that have never paid anything in
>>79299268
The Walton family can choose what they want to do with their fortune. The Death tax is just destroying family businesses. I can see how a child of a wealthy man is lucky, but only if that wealthy man decides that his child should be priviledged, not some phony system being inherently evil and unfair.
>>79301716
And you do that by destroying the middle class. Social coherence is attained when all the working men have been thrown upon wage slavery by politicians who know better?
Holydays? Fuck that, we need to please the masters.
Vacations? Fuck it, go back to work.
Extra payment? Hahaha, what do you think you are.
>>79296830
Guys, sweden, we all know, we KNOW that socialism works.
But it only works if it's tempered, socialism doesn't apply to every one, socialism applies only to the nation and productive citizens. It must be tempered with a strong sense of nationalism.
Some kine of... national socialism would be the best system we could create.
>>79300447
>Britain
Wut?
>>79282224
Yeah that shitty conservative Obama gave billions of dollars to the richest people in the country because otherwise they would have had to take a pay cut.
I remember the outrage of my fellow enlightened liberal allies as we fought to prevent such obvious nepotism among the wealthy elite.
>>79302428
inflation adjust that you piece of shit.
>>79282224
>welfare took off in the 60's and 70's
There's your problem. Bottom feeders get most of their welfare check from taxes paid by corporations and then go and spend it all at Walmart.
They pay all the taxes and they voluntarily line the pockets of CEOs when they buy Minions on Bluray.
>>79302428
The US has 50% more population than in the 1970, so that explains 70% of the rise. The rest means that more and more people are left behind.
>>79282224
It is. Read Ken Wilber, Luhmann, Parsons, Forrester, Heidegger, Habermas, Bateso, Don Beck.
Uneducated fuck.
>>79302428
Wait, I hope that's inflation adjusted.
If not, bad news for you.
>>79282956
Neoliberalism is a right wing movement for corporate rule.
>>79302818
I read Luhmann and Heidegger.
So what does Luhmann say about this issue?
>>79287579
are you retarded ?
>>79282224
Makes you think, ha
>>79300974
Yup, sure thing. Denmark has one of the most free markets and loosest regulations in the world. Not even a minimum wage. Taking about exploitation by profit-driven interest.... That's why their youth unemployment isn't rising like in the rest of scandinavia.
>>79302941
Luhmann is a fuck and there is a reason his ideas never got publicity anywhere outside Germany.
Other people were too busy dealing with realism.
>>79303190
How does that contradict my statement that there is less exploitation?
If anything, that proves it. Do you know why they don't have a minimum wage? No need for one, they have unions everywhere.
>>79284167
neo-liberalism is a field of economics that Reagan followed closely
>>79303190
If you can understand how 20% youth unemployment is a problem, then why the fuck you vouching for importing half of africa here to fix the situation?
>>79282224
ytytrytyrty
>>79303610
Its out politicians. They actually believe they can view African immigrants the same way as locals in long-term economic prospect.
>>79302848
It is, the other guy replying is just retarded
>>79302941
So I guess you support Obama's doubling our national debt for the purpose of giving billions of dollars to the richest people in the country? Or how his executive action making to US people assume the debt of each and every mortgage the banks decided weren't profitable enough?
Do you expect clinton to do better with her "The Clinton Foundation" track record, what was it again, out of $330,000,000 donated to it only 6 million made it to charities, the remaining $324,000,000 went to supposed "fundraisers" and "dinners"
You are a liar and a shill.
>>79296033
Still a problem that needs to be addressed. /pol/ will never admit it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7TkWaUI9cA
>>79303758
Wait, what were you even replying to? I asked a Spaniard about Luhmann and never stated any of this.
>>79301974
>markets are exclusive to capitalism
>>79303951
You are claiming the socialist left is the solution to wealth disparity in the US. Therefor you are avocating for Hillary; more of what we've been served for the past eight years with Obama as they are both endorsed by the exact same establishment.
>>79283796
>>79287502
>>79292063
>>79301193
Oh man you fuckers really don't know what neoliberalism is, holy shit, fucking read a book you uneducated retards.
Why did americunts even ever begin with calling the left liberal? And why are retards on pol who aren't even american doing it too?
>>79304399
Since when is Hillary a representative of the socialist left?
>>79303190
If the people are already empowered to protect their interests, why should the government step in?
>>79304399
So you believe Hillary to be a SOCIALIST?
>>79304399
Please define socialism.
>>79304467
Since superdelegates became a thing, if you don't like it you better start a new party or get all the Bern-outs to rally and get super delegates removed for the nomination process. As it stands democrats are nothing more than unwitting tools of our oligarchs.
>>79282224
>eh thinks more government and more socialism will stop this trend
you do realize global marxism is the worst form of crorny capitolism there is right?
the ultra elite use governments to destroy any hope of competition..
>>79305088
>marxism is capitalism
fuggin wut m8
here's some reading for you regarding the destruction of competition
http://reclaimdemocracy.org/powell_memo_lewis/
>>79303735
Is it adjusted for population growth?
>>79305055
Is there any protest against this practice?
I mean without superdelegates, Sanders could've won as well.
>>79293305
It's called the neo-liberal consensus dumbass
>>79303735
And it doesn't say it is adjusted for inflation...It just says in millions...Get your jew propaganda the fuck off my board
>>79284010
The US went from a general labor shortage to a general labor surplus in the 70's thinks to women permanently entering the workforce, immigration continuing, international free trade coming to force, and the computer making existing workers more productive.
when you have a labor surplus, wages go down and profits go up. At least in the short term.
>>79282224
It's ironic because as our government becomes more socialist, inequality rises.
>>79305596
Lefties are *always* the most useful idiots of the capitalist elite, no exceptions. They always fight for open borders, which as Bernie said (before he became an open borders shill) is a Koch brothers proposal.
>>79306020
>neo-liberalism
>socialism
wew
>>79306020
You really don't get it, do you?
With that kind of attitude, no wonder the US has changed that way.
>>79306020
>muh theoretical extremely specific version of capitalism would never create inequality
God just shut up.
>>79305055
That didn't answer his question...
>>79305055
Or maybe we'll vote for Jill Stein since the green party became anti-capitalist recently. Once we kick out all the hippies, it will probably be pretty comfy.
The real solution is for some form of reverse economic slavery or offshore banks ban.
If all your money has to be in your own country, and if that money is relative to the wellbeing of your own country, then protecting your country and participting in its development turns into the only way to protect and augment your wealth.
>>79302410
The US is not Sweden or Norway. Socialism cannot work in the US WHEN WE HAVE SO MANY USELESS EATERS.
It will start to fail in Scandinavia too once the useless reach a critical mass...but this is all fucking obvious and shouldn't even need to be stated.
Why can people not understand this?
>>79306414
So stalinism? You go for it m8, but not all of us live in third world countries.
>>79304591
Dam you're one lost German. Spend more time reading about economics. All that's coming out of your mouth is "please Merkel fuck me in the ass"
I'm a BumForObumma now
>>79306489
>Having ideology this pure.
My gott.
>>79306489
Useless eaters like Detroit, right?
They were the pride of your nation, before they got a deregulated global Capitalism to the knee.
>>79306489
Mein gott!
>>79306601
If pitiful insult attempts are all you have I say, further talk is redundant.
>>79306601
They are so cucked they don't even consider Bernie to be a socialist. Believe me I work with them and they think Bernie is leaning to the right.
>>79306489
Where's your outrage over the useless corporate eaters?
http://www.forbes.com/sites/taxanalysts/2014/03/14/where-is-the-outrage-over-corporate-welfare/#36300d9f6881
>>79306797
Bernie is leaning to the right in order to be acceptable to the us mainstream, he won't have to do that anymore.
>>79305714
Sure there is, if enough democrats raised a big enough stink about it, Aside from that there would have to be some sort of repurcussions for such an obvious rigging of a nomination.
If the people in charge can push Hillary through with the nomination and the democratic voter base just goes along with it, policy will never change.
The only reason trump will be granted the nomination is because the Republicans suffered the same type of schism years ago beginning with Ron paul. He was our bernie sanders, and the Republican elite did nothing but mock and slander him. Instead they nominated a crooked warhawk McCain and the worthless Mormon douche Romney.
>>79306797
Everything Bernie runs on is considered "New Deal" policies. He could have run as a Republican in the 50s.
But you wouldn't know that seeing that you've never bothered reading a history book.
>>79282224
inequality is fucking irrelevant
>>79282224
I fucking told you guys Trump would take the lead
>>79306817
tax break =/= eating
there is probably corruption involved, at the same time successful enterprises are a good investment
>>79306552
>Stalinism
lol, no, was it like that? i don't mean communism, i just think that the 1% treat the world as if it was a whole, flowing money from country to country as they see fit
normal citizens can't even cross the border in some cases, we are trapped inside these nations and they can empoverish it if they take a grudge with the current leader
Whats your solution then?
>>79306414
Stopping companies from inverting overseas I think can be agreed by everyone as being a shitshow of the highest degree. The only way is to either erect huge protective tarriffs specifically at tax havens, or stop them from leaving. In the criminal sense, this would be money laundering.
>>79306979
t. someone who knows nothing about economics.
Both sides are the issue, the parasites and the elites. They're both fucking up the country. Not too hard to understand you retard. Now go suck muslim cock like the good beta cuckold you are.
>>79307086
>being a shitshow of the highest degree
what do you mean?
>>79306313
If every pro-socialist American votes for Hillary then yes, she is the representative of the socialist left.
>>79306348
If the green party manages to claim any electoral votes then you may have a point.
>>79307048
My solution?
Make the municipality the center of political power and destroy global capitalism.
>>79307294
>If the green party manages to claim any electoral votes then you may have a point
They're polling between 7-9% atm
>>79307244
Making profits in one country, and then inverting them to a different country to lower your effective taxes is pretty much tax evasion. Yet its done every day by corporations.
>>79307368
Except they aren't dense enough to actually get any candidates. third partys need to not campaign nationally, but instead focus on the big cities and try and snigsnag a few metro seats so they can actually bitch and complain in congress.
>>79307294
>If every pro-socialist American votes for Hillary
Call me when that happens senpai
>>79307294
>If every pro-socialist American votes for Hillary then yes,
So no, because they voted for her rival.
>>79307596
K talk to you in november.
>>79307700
They voting for trump?
>>79306959
Ahh I see. So Bernie is leaning to the right because he runs on "New Deal" policies. I've literally just been blinded by history.
>>79307526
They have some 100 or so elected officials on the state and local levels, they should concentrate on the presidential to raise their profile and then focus on downballot elections.
>>79307319
I like that
But how does that work when you have a guy that has businesses that net more than the whole municipality, is the water provider for the municipality, and decides that he will close the water plant cause whatever, which makes the municipality have no water for X months until they either can pay for the closed water plant, redirect water from another municipality, or build a new one?
>>79307410
Ah, i thought you were saying that banning it was bad. Yes its a big fucking abuse.
>>79307810
and not one in congress.
>>79307833
I'm not saying raise anyones taxes, but the only way its possible to know if taxes can be lowered is when you cut out all the loopholes.
>>79307833
>>79307833
>But how does that work when you have a guy that has businesses that net more than the whole municipality, is the water provider for the municipality, and decides that he will close the water plant cause whatever, which makes the municipality have no water for X months until they either can pay for the closed water plant, redirect water from another municipality, or build a new one?
They would take over the closed one obviously. You could even make it law that the municipality has the right of first refusal.
>>79306663
And how does this translate into me being forced to take care of parasites that don't want to work and never will?
We're not talking about the same thing.
>>79282224
Wealth includes property. Home values have skyrocketed as the US population increases.
This chart doesn't say it is counting for inflation.
>>79306817
Supporting corporations with tax dollars is not capitalism.
>>79283370
> productivity
Why are you faggots taking credit for printers Microsoft Computers and other technology?
>>79307940
>and not one in congress.
Yeah so?
>>79308095
>And how does this translate into me being forced to take care of parasites that don't want to work and never will?
Because those people are an insignificant portion of the population, and the economic and political benefits from social safety nets outweighs the costs.
Regardless, it's best to get rid of capitalism all together so we won't have to spend so much on social safety nets.
>>79308251
But that's what happens when capitalism is a part of the political economy.
>>79282224
"socialism prevents income inequality"
t. shitposter
>>79284167
>Reagan
>Not the OG Neocon
>>79308527
>obama is a communist
>capitalism is equality
>socialism is anything a government does
t. shitposter
>>79308064
>They would take over the closed one obviously.
Nationalization
So literally South American socialist populism? Chavez, Kirchner, etc?
It doesnt work, it creates a huge fucking mess, makes the country lose money, services get worse, and gives way too much power to the politicians
>>79307940
>I'm not saying raise anyones taxes, but the only way its possible to know if taxes can be lowered is when you cut out all the loopholes.
Argentina right now is going that road, raising everything until it gets stable and they can lower them to a balance point. Also last gov. abused all sort of laws to hide and funnel money, so now all the loopholes are getting shone on while the investigations on corruption continue. Supposedly gonna get fixed as well.
>>79308686
You rarely want to lower taxes, because its hard to get taxes raised. Fixing the issues with tax effeciency should be the #1 priority for government.
>>79307748
Sanders.
>>79308686
>Nationalization
No, not nationalization, remember this is the municipality we're talking about, not the broader confederation. Which means it can be put under direct democratic control.
Regardless, if capitalism is gone, there won't be single owners of anything unless someone is self-employed. The dominant mode of production would by co-ops.
Don't look to south american socialism, much of which was a mix of tankieism and social democratic policies, look to Rojava syria to see what I'm talking about.
>>79283163
wow, it's like the parties are identical
>>79308527
It does, though.
>inequality
They mean inequity.
Inequality would imply there is a legal component preventing a Burger King cashier from making as much as a doctor or the president of the United States.
>>79309087
The ain't identical, but neither dares to address the issues.
>>79307773
I'm just saying his ideas would have been non controversial as a Republican in the 50s. This is how far we've moved to the right as a whole. Clinton has swathes of Neo Cons supporting her.
>>79308976
That's not how voting works in America. The democratic nominee is Hillary while the Republican nominee is Trump. Bernie is out of the race.
>>79284859
>>79287247
Coincidence??
>>79287579
2/10 made me reply
>>79287887
underrated
>>79308527
t. temporarily embarrassed millionaire
>>79284167
Unfortunately Reagan was probably already suffering Alzheimer's during that time, leaving (((other people))) to make his policies for him. Look how small the wealth inequality was in the first half of his presidency was.
>>79302410
Socialism works in a perfect world
The world is not perfect
Look at how fucked Sweden is becoming now
>>79310431
>socialism works in a perfect world
>but not capitalism, which according to it's most ardent supporters can only work in a perfectly competitive market that's never existed
>>79309053
>the municipality we're talking about, not the broader confederation
this is retarded man, the first reason why you don't nationalize is because the big business players get hostile against you, if your claim doesn't have national legitimacy then you are alone against the big behemot that is business
what this means is : you nationalize the wat plant, but then the business which made the pipes does the same, and then the one that transport the pipes, and then electricity, or garbage disposal, or etc, they all start boicotting the way things work until the leadership is replaced by one that doesn't nationalize shit
>if capitalism is gone
wait what? we were talking about a municipal government dealing with a big business player suddenly interrumpting a service, how is capitalism gone?
>dominant mode of production would by co-ops
you can't do this in already working cities, you can't interrupt life and wait for everything to start again
>Rojava syria
gonna check
>>79310431
Yeah it has to be national socialism to work, the main caveat being you can't use all your countries newfound wealth to try conquering europe.
>>79310431
>implying it isn't mass immigration
It is fucking up my country too senpai
>>79310728
Mass immigration is just a symptom of democracy, sleezy politicians will always import voters
>>79310646
Did you not read the part about destroying global capitalism in my first point. The strategy is to destroy the political power of capitalists while preparing municipalities to get power.
>you can't do this in already working cities, you can't interrupt life and wait for everything to start again
Sure you can, just mandate that the workers of any particular business must now control it. They can organize some transition. There probably wouldn't be any significant lapse in production.
>>79310886
Tell that to my very non-democratic country
>>79310886
>implying mass immigration isn't a symptom of capitalism so sleezy capitalists can make labor cheaper.
>>79309093
the one's in charge surely starved a lot with the rest of the population, oh, they didn't.
>>79310964
>destroy the political power of capitalists while
how?
>preparing municipalities to get power
>decentralizing power
>that the workers of any particular business must now control it
what kind of workers are this u are talking about?
>>79311017
>implying they wouldn't rather just outsource to China or some other shit hole
Any US worker illegal or not makes more in an hour than their contemporary in China makes in a week
>>79311017
that would actually make labor more expensive because they would be forced to pay them minimum wage and comply to american safety standards.
>>79311277
>how?
organizing, taking local governments, etc. Taking advantage of any crisis that pops up.
>what kind of workers are this u are talking about?
All of them
>>79311572
The US has infrastructure and markets china doesn't. Remember any commodity made in china for the US has to be shipped over too.
>>79311780
>implying you'll care about minimum wage laws while you're employing illegals.
>>79311841
so from CEO to toilet cleaner, all but owner will side with you?
What will you give to them? Specially the higher-ups
>>79311964
glad to hear you're voting for Trump.
