le socialism is bad meme
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>le socialism is bad meme
>>78975802
>Work smart, not hard.
Momma was a font of such knowledge. I earn twice the minimum wage in 26 hours of work a week thanks to her.
>>78975802
>Delusional Commies haven't been able to address the misean calculation problem of for 90 years.(first link related)
>These arguments have now manifested into predictions and all but a select few Commies have the honesty to admit that Mises was right.(second link related
>Mfw
https://mises.org/library/end-socialism-and-calculation-debate-revisited
https://reason.com/archives/2005/01/21/the-man-who-told-the-truth
soshialism keels
>>78975802
>le unskilled workers and the unemployed deserve more money for their minimal-to-nonexistent contribution to private industries meme
>>78976292
Why does being a mere organizer deserve to get paid several times what those who actually do the work earn?
>>78977390
Because no-one would do it, otherwise.
>>78977809
And that they simply aren't "mere organisers"
>>78975802
No, I'm thinking of benefits.
>Someone starts a business
>It's a success
>They don't deserve money
?
>>78977390
Because, goddammit, my college friends' kids needed SOMEwhere to go to earn six figures.
>>78975802
>top
>negroes and wymyn
>bottom
>FUCKING WHITE MALES
Oy vey
>>78977390
Doing manual labor isn't innovative. You aren't "creating" anything, so to speak.
Wonder why people get paid 6 figures to put words into a computer? Because they're inventing shit that makes your life easier. Explain how a cashier deserves the same wage when I can literally go to a self checkout and do their job for them.
Fuck socialists. Fuck them to death.
No wealth is being "taken away" from anyone under capitalism. Celebrities and fame whores don't "deserve" to be rich, but it's the choice of the population to continue giving them money by buying their shit and feeding them attention.
>>78977390
Classic
>"I could do that if I wanted to!"
>"But you didn't"
>>78975802
It doesn't matter, because the actual belief of the left in $The_Current_Year is niggerism, which believes in taking money from white people who work hard and giving it to niggers who don't.
You can't call it socialism, because niggers are anti-social.
>>78975802
>posted from my iPhone
>>78977809
So you'd quit your job as an organizer if you earned 40k rather than 80k? Really? You'd really throw away a good job just because that is such an insult to you?
>>78978181
Why does anyone need to earn six figures?
>>78978520
Running a business isn't "innovative", either. It's just hiring people and doing paperwork. Innovation is what inventors and engineers do. Calling yourself an "innovator" because you hire engineers is like saying you're a programmer because you can use Microsoft Word.
>>78975802
age for OP pic is accurate
>>78978527
>Classic
>>"I could do that if I wanted to!"
>>"But you didn't"
How are you getting that from my post?
>>78975802
How is Venezuela doing comrade?
>>78978527
>"I could do that if I wanted to!"
>"But you didn't"
being born to wealthy parents? sure I could have "done" that if it had happened to me ... its not like it was based on any of my choices who my parents were
>>78979002
Why is 40k acceptable to you, but not 80k?
Why not 20k?
>>78979205
20k is acceptable to me, I never said it wasn't.
There is literally no working class in the western world anymore.
>>78979175
> being born to wealthy parents
> that's what they're talking about.
Did you not read it, or did you not understand it?
>>78975802
No way dude, it TOTALLY makes sense that having a bunch of paper = being paid more paper for no reason!!! Being paid capital because you lent someone capital MAKES SENSE and ISNT STUPID!!! It MAKES SENSE that there are people who invest & dont produce a good or service yet are allowed to siphon goods and services out of the economy!!!! ITS SMART NOT STUPID!!!!!!!!!
>>78979301
So, in other words, you're going to complain when they have 40k, until they have 20k, then until everyone is paid the same and there's no incentive to put oneself in a position of accountability.
>>78979328
really is sad how true this is
>>78979002
LOLS, I'm a manager, AND ITS QUITE HARD, you have to ensure upkeep is in check, you have to check on EVERYONE"S SCHEDULE, you need to ensure that each worker is growing and that they;re used in the most efficient manner, Also you need to ensure that all of the supplies needed has a secure source and EVEN a back up just incase. You also need to settle customer and employee disputes.
And those who made their businesses? I would assume the same thing with the manager EXCEPT IN A HUGE SCALE. That ability to organize individuals is a very valued skill, more so if your organizing thousands. Heck organizing 14 people is hard enough for me.
>>78977390
If it's so easy, than become a billionaire "organizing" others and then use the money to found your own socialist paradise, pinko.
>1 post by this ID
>>78979387
I chose to ignore the red herring they were going for, yes
>>78979438
Realistically, some variation in wages is necessary for a society to function. But excessive variation is inefficient, since those with large amounts of money tend to hoard it and not put it back into the economy.
>>78979002
>Why does anyone need to earn six figures?
Because the work they do is hard enough that if they aren't paid six figures to do it, they won't do the work.
>>78975802
This so bad, rich kids will buy overpriced phones made with slave labour and destroy them just for fun. Then Libercuckians go on about muh hard work getting paid pennies from schlomo goldcorp and all the wealth goes to Chad son of Schlomo and so on for eternity.
The only problem with capitalism is mass immigration. Stop that and wages would go back to what they used to be 60 years ago and every one would be satisfied with there wages being fair
>>78979726
If person A won't do it for six figures, Person B will.
>>78979803
Their*
>>78979700
How is anyone meant to build anything if they're not allowed to own large amounts of money?
>>78979002
>Why does anyone need to earn six figures?
Do you get that you're a useful idiot?
Do you understand that the end goal of "equality" is to make us all equally slaves of the (((chosen)))?
>>78979726
>>78979700
wages aren't determined by some agency. It's ultimately determined by supply and demand, Not enough workers who are capable of doing this very desired job, Then they have a big salary since more people compete to hire those individuals CAPABLE of doing that job.
If you would have a country that only makes engineers, Their salaries would be piss poor.
>>78975802
7/10. Made me reply. The workers are being paid less because they're replaceable. You don't reward people based on how much they've contributed, you reward them based on their value. The entrepreneur is invaluable. The entrepreneur takes risks that the normie plebs is unwilling to take. You'd think you would have Apple if Steve Jobs couldn't make billions? Why would he take such a risk if their is no reward. This is why every socialist society has always failed and never innovated, because you guilt the rich for being successful. And doesn't matter if it's "democratic" soliacism. You vote to use force, it's the same thing.
>>78979002
If hiring engineers were easy, you'd be doing it.
>>78979973
>Do you understand that the end goal of "equality" is to make us all equally slaves of the (((chosen)))?
If everyone is a slave, no one is.
>>78979002
Managers are never really off the clock. That's the difference.
>>78980066
That's like saying, "if being in middle school was easy, you'd be doing it". Do you think you are under-qualified to be a middle school student?
>>78977390
> what are skills, scope of influence, and performance under pressure?
Anyone can do manual labor. Few have the cahones to take risks with billions of dollars and have to answer to stockholders for their decisions. Stockholders pay CEOs and other executives what they are worth on the open market. You could do an NFL style salary cap on CEOs, but they'd still be worth millions. Joe Sixpack at the plant can be replaced, and his wages reflect it.
>>78975802
Capitalism doesn't advocate redistribution of anything in any way, you stupid faggot. Kill yourself.
>>78978129
My company sells an inferior product. The hundreds of other companies with more reliable products have a monopoly. So I'll use that as an excuse to kill everyone more successful than me.
>>78978129
He's a nigga!
Socialism = Destruction of human ingenuity and spirit
Capitalism = Unleashes human ingenuity and spirit
There is no debate
>>78979840
Enjoy your race to the bottom.
>>78975802
>having money makes you bad
>quick give all the money to the federal government
>>78980232
In modern capitalism (corporatism), there really is no need to be good at judging risks, because if you choose poorly, it's the taxpayers, not you, that must deal with the consequences.
>>78980298
Any economic system by its very nature advocates redistribution. The only system that DOESN'T advocate redistribution is one which forbids any transfers of ownership of any kind between people.
>>78980127
>If everyone is a slave, no one is.
The same (((1%))) that your gender studies professor told you about is the same (((1%))) that would be the ones calling the shots under "socialism", dumbass.
>>78980478
For those who have nothing or very little, it's not a race to the bottom.
>>78975802
> That whole picture
No, capitalism is the idea that the government shouldn't steal your property or wealth and give it to those who have not earned it. Socialism is the opposite
> muh-mu rich kids
Yeah no shit, rich people want to look after their kids and make them happy, what's your point? Do you not know how incentives work? People work hard for their self interest and that self interest extends to the family.
Get fucked, that image is all sorts of retarded.
>>78980629
In practice that isn't the case though. In the USSR, former business owners were persecuted and denied rights.
>>78980127
In any society, there will always be someone on top. Only difference is, in capitalism the person on top, has to, in some degree serve whom he sells to. Unless crony capitalism and mass corruption is involved.
In socialism this ends up being the policians whom will take extra cash for themselves, and as such, you are a slave to them.
Wanting to be on the top of the greasy pole is a given in any society and it's about creating a society that makes whomever is on the top have to serve those underneath to some degree, and the only system that does that, is capitalism.
>>78975802
Your thinking of corporatism.
Also you are adding wealth where there was none, this is why growth is important. I wish these CEOs were paid less and others paid more, its fucked up.
Most people are so agaisnt socialism because they don't have the minimal clue of what socialism his.
>>78976126
And it won't be here that you will have a discussion about it.
>>78975802
Socialism is the ideal political system. Anybody who disagrees is either a manipulative predator or a cuckold who likes being taken advantage-of. The vast majority of human problems emerge out of, or are reinforced by, material inequality.
The problem with socialism is its implementation. Abolishing capitalism is hard enough. but transitioning to a peaceful and equal society is much harder.
>>78980686
>Yeah no shit, rich people want to look after their kids and make them happy, what's your point? Do you not know how incentives work? People work hard for their self interest and that self interest extends to the family.
Do YOU understand incentive? If the poor have little chance of succeeding even with effort, why should they even bother trying?
>>78980586
Bullshit. They absolutely don't. Go back to fucking plebbit, bernout.
There is no "modern capitalism". It's a defined system, it doesn't evolve. Jesus you're stupid.
>>78976010
>get told to go to college
>see the prices and the increasing issue of student loans
>decide to go to community college for free because of student grants
>get a degree
>get a job at a chain store
>do well, promoted to manager and on way to another promotion or moved to a more popular area
could have been worse i guess
least i don't have student loans
>>78980298
>Capitalism doesn't advocate redistribution of anything in any way, you stupid faggot. Kill yourself.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH
>What is taxes
>What is welfare
And then it's this guys that tell one to go learn about economics, HAHAHAHAHAHA
>>78980726
Uh huh.
Because the bolshivek Jews sure as hell didn't want competition from the goy.
isn't capitalism an economic example of survival of the fittest?
>>78980811
Are you stupid? What is stopping the poor from working hard and saving money in a capitalist system? What exactly is holding them down?
>>78980656
You have an internet connection. You're better off than 60% of the world's population.
>>78980808
Inequality is an inherent part of reality.
>>78980820
>It's a defined system
By who? Where?
> it doesn't evolve.
>economics system do not evolve
Don't you ever get tired of sucking Jew dick?
>>78981057
Need money to make money.
>>78981075
>not living in a completely buffered society is "privilege"
The cry of the eternal nigger
>>78981057
Because what you get out of it isn't really worth the cost. And usually, there are other (illegal) ways of getting what they want.
>>78981001
>fittest = richest
no.
>>78981001
No. It's not that simple.
>>78981057
What is the point of saving money by a poor person?
> What exactly is holding them down?
Gee, i don't know. Have you taken a good look around you?
>>78975802
>gibmedats: the ideology
kys yourself leech
>>78981075
So? I wasn't talking about myself.
>>78980918
>capitalism
>in favour of taxes
Re-read your Bastiat, you are confusing us with Lenin.
>/pol/tards defending capitalism
You've become what you hate
>>78975802
The primary problem is crony capitalism and the system that directly and indirectly supports it. You literally cannot setup a business of consequence anymore without a large amount of preexisting capital, which means most people simply have no ability to compete in the first place. Regulations and necessary infrastructure are just too pervasive. Even worse, we are seeing merger after merger after merger, so even those few companies that get to the top just get bought up and eaten by who they originally competed against.
Putting the causes aside, it's certainly true that there are people who don't earn remotely what they actually make.
>>78978520
This guy is right that unskilled manual labor is worth a lot less than many higher end jobs. The problem is there are also a large number of jobs that do earn a ton of money at the high end that aren't worth it either and essentially exist due to graft and corruption. This is worsened in that with our current job market, even if you do have a solid skill there are not enough jobs so they can pay you scut wages.
You can make an argument for going into one of those few areas where there is a lot of need for new workers and they will pay you a lot, but with the requirements for retraining, an ultimately limited field, and innate skill, there's no way every good worker can do that.
Bottom line, there are a ton of jobs out there that pay the employee far less than what they earn for the company just because they can. I'm not talking about reasonable profit margin less, I'm talking about "each hour you are putting in 50 dollars for the company and you are getting paid 12 dollars back."
>>78976126
More about the Economic Calculation Problem:
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=ZGVmYXVsdGRvbWFpbnxtYWx0aHVzc3RvcmFnZTJ8Z3g6MmY4NzRlNTAxY2UzZTEyZQ
>>78981156
Yeah, that's a motto if you're investing.
And whats to say that if you don't have money, that you can't go to a local charity? A charity ( which doesn't require government action and does not force people to pay for others) helps people much more effeciently than a government does.
>>78981192
>have it better than 4 billion + people
>still complain
>>78980776
>Most people are so agaisnt socialism because they don't have the minimal clue of what socialism his.
Yeah pretty much this...or the mountain of corpses and loss of self-determination left in its wake.
>>78981104
Except that it's a socioeconomic system based on philosophy, that is so well-grounded in first principles that it literally can't fucking evolve. Your ignorance explains why you believe the shit you do, you clearly don't know a single thing about capitalism.
>>78981075
>You are better then niggers in Africa, therefore you shouldn't complain and want a better life
Are you 13?
Capitalism has never been the problem it's always been trust fund babies. Boomers are fuckups about everything
Their parents made businesses
Then they inherited after spending their youth being groomed to be good at making money
Then they ignore their children and give them thousands of dollars in weekly allowances and never teach them about at least keeping up appearance so they do shit like get drunk/high and drive their sports cars into pedestrians.
>>78980918
> welfare
> free-market capitalism
Alrighty.
>>78980203
>This nigger was literally too stupid to pass middle school
"SOCIALISTS"
>>78979002
>Hey, I know you've been getting paid 80k a year for your hard work, but because GLORIOUS SOCIALISM has kicked in, you're now getting 40k a year!
>And thankfully, you can work just as hard, while getting paid as the same as people doing significantly less work!
>W-why are you quitting?
>W-what do you mean you want a demotion for less work since it doesn't fucking matter now?
>>78981264
>equaling free market capitalism with capitalism
And this is how you spot a retard who doesn't even know it's definitions.
The first person to accurately describe capitalism was Karl Marx, bro. Bastiat was way before him.
>>78981057
I suspect a lot of "captialist" countries are in a pretty bad spot currently, the European union is accused of having tons of regulations and tariffs on products which means for a new business to figure out if he breaks any regulations there he has to either hire someone or spend a lot of valuable time on it.
This strangles new competition. Everyone also has tons of debt.
I imagine something similar is in place those outside of the EU (like Norway or the USA)
I think the way to fix this is to get rid of a lot of chains that makes it difficult to start new business, as well as offer incentives to do so. But the people who have bought out congress probably won't allow such a thing.
I'm not surprised seeing pro-communist/socialist people show up because people fail to see the real enemy here, it's not capitalism, it's corruption. Capitalism is the best system there has ever been in history, and may very well ever be.
>>78981455
>or the mountain of corpses
In what socialist society?
>nd loss of self-determination
Literally a meme and Cold war propaganda.
>>78980808
>Anybody who disagrees is either a manipulative predator or a cuckold who likes being taken advantage-of.
Says the faggot who unironically thinks the cure to all of societies ills involves giving power of all his decisions over to other men hundreds or thousands of miles away that see all humanity as a fungible asset.
>>78979505
Because we're not allowed to pay the working class what their work is worth any more. Minimum wage law makes manual labor illegal, so businesses that need it have to hire only lawbreakers like illegal aliens to do it.
>>78981264
So all people are equally good/bad? Is that what this guy is saying? Because by his logic, we might as well let 12 year olds fly airliners, since pilots are flawed humans too.
>>78981486
>over half the world's population doesn't count because it hurts my argument
>>78981694
> Karl Marx
> economics
???
Why weren't you euthanized at birth?
>>78980432
>hundreds of other companies have a monopoly
Tell your parents you want summer school, you need it
>>78981890
>involves giving power of all his decisions over to other men hundreds or thousands of miles away that see all humanity as a fungible asset.
Becasue that totally doesn't happen today in our societies. God, you guys look like fucking retards.
Here, read this. Just the first paragraphs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
>>78980776
>Most people are so agaisnt socialism because they don't have the minimal clue of what socialism his.
Yeah they don't know that is a system that, every time people try to implement, it fails miserably.
>>78981292
Almost as if /pol/ started growing up...
>>78980874
Why is this so hard for people to grasp? I didn't go to college but I went to work showed up on time, busted my ass 4 days a week 10 hours a day. 10 years later I'm upper management I have full benifits, 4 weeks paid vacation, and I made 58k last year. This is not hard to understand. YOU WILL NOT MAKE A LOT OF MONEY RIGHT AWAY AFTER COLLEGE you must gain experience YOU WILL NOT MAKE A LOT OF MONEY WITH A BACHELOR'S IN FEMINIST ART any one who waste money on this is a fool.
>>78981589
>doesn't have the reading comprehension abilities to understand a simple comparison
>thinks *I'M* the one that didn't pass middle school
>>78980232
>answer to stockholders
If "fuck off and die" isn't acceptable, there's no point to living in that world anyway.
>>78982013
He was an economic philosopher
>>78975802
Socialism isn't bad, OP: National Socialism is fantastic!
>>78981977
So you think that a american living a higher standard of life then a barely human Congolese is a achievment to be proud off? Do you think so little of yourself and your "nation"?
>>78982013
I only said that Karl Marx was the first person to accuretely describe capitalism. I even think he was the one that coined the term, but i'm not sure. Mst of his work is describing capitalism and criticizing it.
>>78982296
>Nazi Germany
>Socialist
Socialists don't say everyone should get paid the same money for different jobs you stupid pieces of shit
>>78977390
>SEIZE THE MEANS OF PRODUCTION, DO IT NOW. NOBODY DESERVES MORE THAN ANYBODY ELSE
The more I hear the defense for capitalism, the more I lean towards socialism.
The good type of socialism. The one that brings one ethnic and cultural group under one cause and one umbrella.
Capitalism is too individualistic for society's good. Especially in times where mass immigration is a thing and whites are dying out.
I really don't get why people just follow through with the ONLY form of socialism that worked. National Socialism.
"LOOK AT HOW IT ENDED UP" is a terrible argument. The war is what made it so, not the policies.
>>78981811
Venezuela, Zimbabwe, Vietnam, and Cambodia still have mass graves that haven't been completely covered up yet.
There was one discovered at the bottom of a mine shaft in Chadziwa in 2008, that Mugabe tried to claim were victims of Ian Smith, the leader Mugabe's revolutionary forces deposed. Except it turned out some of the cotpses hadn't been thoroughly looted before being dumped, and several cell phones that didn't exist before 2001 were found in the pockets of their clothes.
>>78980808
The transition is impossible. Every society is full of unequals therefore struggle begins after the euphory of the new and just world vanishes.
>>78979840
You can't do the work, because you're a dumb nigger who never passed middle school
The people who can do the work need to be paid enough to make it worth their while to do so. If they aren't, they won't, and you can't.
You dont understand this, because you're a stupid nigger who never passed middle school.
>>78982485
It was you absolute retard
>>78979803
That graph.
>>78982485
If National Socialist Germany wasn't Socialist, what was it? Please do tell.
Let's go backwards.
Define socialism and tell me how Nazi Germany doesn't fit that description.
>>78982567
>"LOOK AT HOW IT ENDED UP" is a terrible argument. The war is what made it so, not the policies.
The war was a direct consequence of the policies. That's like saying "Jumping out of a plane without a parachute would be perfectly safe if only the ground got out of the way!".
>>78982042
He was making a joke you did
>>78975802
>3posts
huh really makes you think
>>78980127
>if everyone is a slave, no one is
>if x is x, x isn't x
Nice logic. Retard.
>>78982624
>You can't do the work, because you're a dumb nigger who never passed middle school
I'm in college. And I'm 100% white (though my ancestry includes some of what would once be considered "undesirable whites").
>>78980468
>Capitalism = Unleashes human ingenuity and spirit
That was true maybe 100 years a go, now it just unleashes human greed and narcissism.
>>78980586
>In modern capitalism (corporatism), there really is no need to be good at judging risks, because if you choose poorly, it's the taxpayers, not you, that must deal with the consequences.
No that's just how the free market works in capitalism.
You have the freedom to compete and freedom to restrict the freedom of others via competition.
Now the latter is just done through the goverment, without goverment it would be done through mafia a.k.a "optional" security services.
>>78982042
^^The guy doesn't get sarcasm^^
>>78982857
>>if x is x, x isn't x
>"everyone", "no one", and "slave" are logically equivalent
>>Nice logic. Retard.
Speak for yourself.
>>78977390
If it's so easy and profitable, you do it.
>>78982122
>Let's implement Socialism in third world countries
>Lets completely shake off a society pretty much the same for millenias
>Nevermind that the socialist rulers are completely corrupt
>Nevermind that half the world is plotting to destroy the system
>Let's implement a system made for industrial societies in rural societies
>And then wonder why they fail
But most of the capitalist regimes that replaced those "socialist" regimes didn't do much better.
>>78982186
>Menwhile a rich dumb kid bought grades in college, party instead of attending classesm never worked in his life gets out of college and goes to work for daddy company or a top position directly
You think you will be a millionaire, don't you?
>>78982042
^^The guy gets the joke. But doesn't understand sarcasm^^
>>78982726
You're extremely stupid.
War was waged on them because of their success. The point is REALLY simple if you try to turn on your brain.
The policies of National Socialism worked but a certain group imposed circumstances which forced its failure. Its failure was not natural or a product of its own policies. It was external influence.
Are you always that incompetent in your thinking?
>>78979840
then why the fuck dont companies just dump person A for person B you knucklehead?
protip: because A does a better fucking job than B and generates more profit than B, so he's worth hiring even though hiring B would be cheaper.
Socialism is good when everyone works and nobody is a NEET ( or almost nobody ) and then a well made redristibution of wealth , otherwhise the gap between between rich and poor will not be sustainable . Not everyone can be rich , but everyone should be able to live decent
Utopia because niggers and lazy fags exists
>>78982872
>That was true maybe 100 years a go, now it just unleashes human greed and narcissism.
You're a complete fucking retard. It involves greed and selfishness always and forever. Human nature and the laws of physics haven't changed.
>>78977809
you would do it if it was for the benefit of your nation, which you were proud to live in. A nation that you are welcome in, pro-british and wants the best for you and your family
>>78982444
I find your argument hilarious.
>I don't have as much as these people making 6 figures. Life is so unfair.
>How dare you make reference to those subhumans who don't have a pot to piss in. They don't count.
>>78982872
I don't think even you understand what you're saying...
>>78983099
>War was waged on them because of their success. The point is REALLY simple if you try to turn on your brain.
The war started because Hitler invaded Poland. You think their """""""""""""""success""""""""""""""" means the rest of Europe should have just bowed down and said "Ok Hitler, you can invade whichever countries you want, we don't care."
>>78983153
The implication is that they WOULD hire Person B instead.
>>78982216
But you didn't, because you're a nigger who never passed middle school.
That's why you're so bad at not pretending to be a nigger who never graduated middle school.
>>78983063
"I was being sarcastic" is the new "LOL I TROLLED U"
>>78979002
>let's try it just one more time even though it failed dozens of time throughout the last 130 years
Fucking commie SJW leftard piece of shit. You'll hang for treason, you evil kike.
>>78982186
>58k at thirty
>successful
AHAHAHAHA
O
Don't know about Murica but in my country upper management positions are limited to those with masters/degrees. Especially those that need MBAs
>>78979803
This isn't surprising. Most Bernie donors are young and young people have the highest unemployment rates in the country.
Look OP, I know that it would be great and all if everyone would simply do what they can for something greater than themselves in this Utopian society of your ideals.
Fact of the matter is, the socialist ideology doesn't take into account that the overwhelming majority of the planet is comprised of greedy dicks who would do whatever it takes for more $.
>capitalism
>produces the strongest and most prosperous civilizations of its time
>communism
>produces third world shitholes rife with starvation, poverty, and genocide every single time
yea wow what a tough choice, you're totally not a retard for considering communism
>>78982575
>Zimbabwe
Mugabe. Nough said
>Venezuela
Chavez and Maduro, nough said
>Cambodja
Don't know shit about this country, but isn't PolPot from here?
>Vietnam
Read a little about Ho Chin Min.
>>78982626
>>78982709
But it wasn't. Hitler himslef said that economics was beneath him. Nazi germany economic system was the same as Weimar Republic, only that the cronyism and state control increased dramatically as nazi germany was gearing up for war
>define socialism
Workers own the means of production. It's easy
>tell me how Nazi Germany doesn't fit that description.
Obvious.
>>78983357
I suspect the leaf is trolling. No sane person can be this stupid or without common sense.
>>78983053
>Let's implement a system made for industrial societies in rural societies
>And then wonder why they fail.
They did pretty well at failing in industrial society too, moron.
>>78983357
>Hitler invaded Poland because he wanted to conquer it meme
You're beyond saving at this point.
>>78983459
>correlation implies causation
![941103_10151501014427740_254787004_n[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/fv2VSyV.png "941103 10151501014427740 254787004 n[1]")
>>78983099
no, no. i think it could have worked but the reason they lost was because le hitler got too land-grabby. would it have worked if they'd stayed within their own borders? maybe. but a socialist society, even an inclusive nationalist version of it, is only as strong as its weakest links so either you kill them or you devolve into something unrecognizable over time.
i'd rather not live in either. that's not to say crony/corporatism is perfect, but what we have now is still better than the alternatives.
>>78983459
>we'll be the ones to do it right this time cuz we're special! it's just never been properly implemented!
>>78983617
So Poland was really that much of a threat to Germany?
>>78983375
You are ducking retarded.
>>78983617
that has nothing to do with what he said though
>>78983099
>War was waged on them because of their success.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
So Hitler just slipped and ordered the invasion of Poland by accident? Or was he "forced"?
>>78983647
>if they stayed within their own borders
>Hitler wanted to wage war and conquer land meme
You're a historically illiterate imbecile of the highest order.
>>78983634
>a nation's economic policies has nothing to do with its economic status
top tier delusion lad, befitting of a real left wing retard
>>78975802
What is exactly wrong with children of someone who worked hard to use the money their parents made?
Assuming they're not total fuckheads and make more money with that money.
>>78983813
He was forced to.
Hitler never wanted war.
>>78983357
>The war started because Hitler invaded Poland.
Oh please don't do this.
>>78983717
not a real quote
>>78983759
most of the parts he conquered at first were german teritories, ethnically speaking
>>78983897
>invade a country
>"Just a prank bro, I don't want no war m8"
>>78981001
it's a system that's designed to facilitate survival of the fittest through economic competition. it selects for economic success - over time, society adapts and becomes more capable at economic success and more inclined to pursue economic success.
socialism on the other hand is designed to repress survival of the fittest by eliminating economic competition.
however, it is impossible to repress the basic laws of nature. when society no longer selects for economic success, it starts selecting for other traits instead. that's why socialist systems grow shittier and shittier over time - they now select for corruption, ability to game the system, and political success. the people adapt to such a system, so over time the people as a whole become more prone to corruption and more inclined to abuse and exploit the system they're in.
>le socalism doesn't work meme
>i assume everyone is a edgy sociopath like me who can't work with his fellow man
BTFO by based mondragon creating jobs in a country where there are none
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation
>>78983939
Yet, it's still a nice acknowledgment of the leaf's inner autism.
>>78983614
Because it was a forced industrialization. And what is the point of producing industrial goods if markets are all closed to them? Also those countries industrialized when Western nations were already changing to a service based economy.
And you can't really expect Vietnam and the such to stop being shitty after one or 2 generations, it's naive
>>78983569
Moveingthegoalpost.jpeg.
This is getting boring. What are you kikes trying to slide off the page today?
>>78983825
>>78983897
Then why did he invade Poland?
>>78983871
It's actually more likely the reverse: socialism appealed to these countries because they were economically disadvantaged, due to lack of resources or dysfunctional government.
>>78983903
So you think it's just COINCIDENCE that Britain declared war after Hitler invaded Poland?
>>78975802
what's the problem with this
if their children don't work hard then their money is eventually going to disappear eventually anyway
10 million will turn into 2 million into <1mill for their grandchildren
>>78981811
USSR, a lot of those socilist countries in South America, Vietnam, Cambodia, etc.
Communism is the cause of hundreds of millions of deaths. To deny this fact points to one of two realities.it is either because you're igornant or pure evil, and in this case I think it is the latter.
>>78980811
That's the quitter attitude Anon.
>>78983971
And Poland is "ethnically speaking" German territory?
>>78983210
Capitalism used to be about providing better products and services to the people via competition. Now it's just mega corporations fighting for self preservation by doing their best to halt and restrict technological, ecological and social progress that comes in way of their profits and growth in this idiotic and unsustainable growth based economy.
>>78983825
>78983825
you're a faggot who's watched one too many stormfag youtube videos. delete your existence.
>>78983891
Would you also accept that it's reasonable that children be required to be punished for crimes committed by their parents?
>>78983897
No point in arguing to Hitlerabbos
>Muh Wartheland is 7% German!!!!!! GIB BACK THOSE GERMAN TERRITORIES
>>78983891
The thing is those kids didn't earn the money at all.
>>78984307
So it's "quitting" to not choose the objectively inferior option?
>>78983971
Historically speaking as recently as 20 years prior too actually.
>>78983903
Ignore context and intent..way to go, retard.
I repeat, you are a retard.
>>78983939
>implying the author or authenticity is of any relevance
Focus on the actual text, mongrel.
>>78983770
>shitposting from phone
put the phone down and do what you need to do until you get home you fucking cunt.
>>78984281
Once you get rich enough money works for you, you dont work for money
you literally cant lose unless you're retarded nigger former nba player
>>78982567
>"LOOK AT HOW IT ENDED UP" is a terrible argument. The war is what made it so, not the policies.
it was geared for war from the beginning. hitler's entire idea and his entire rhethoric show that.
he unified the people by rallying against foreign forces. that's what created the incredible motivation and determination which allowed germany to rise from the ashes of crushing defeat to the most powerful force on the continent within just 20 years.
without that crucual motivation and determination that every man can get behind, national socialism is not possible. and there is nothing else that can generate this fervor, this fanaticism, that the promise of righteous victory and reconquest of lost lands creates.
>>78984399
Nice false equivalence my friend
>>78984492
I'm sorry, the text who can be applied to literally anything, including actual crazy people?
Yeah, I'll pass.
>>78984399
>success and crime should be treated the same
>le socialism is already working as intended
>>78975802
Socialism can't work because the ruling class will always have superior power, which contradicts the entire structure.
>>78984302
not communism but batshit despots
>>78984023
Voluntary cooperation is not socialism, it's the whole point of capitalism.
As long as you respect the property rights of others, you can start a kibbutz for all I care.
>>78975802
>keynesianism is good
>>78984380
You listened and watched to too many Jewfag videos about WW2. Delete your existence and your miserable country's existence while you're at it.
>>78984432
>>78984005
Danzing massacre.
Look up history and read Goebbel's speech within the week or so before the invasion.
Stupid conforming historically illiterate peasants.
>>78984219
??? I didn't answer to you? In what way was i movin g the goaltpost?
>>78984302
Name me one socialist country in South America
Communism is a stateless societies, a anarchic system.
>Vietnam
Vietnam was never a socialist country. Read a little about Ho Chin Min. His fight was always that of a nationalist fight, not socialist. He only called himslef socialist for USSR gibs me dat, like almost all the so called socialist nations
>>78984371
All of that
> by using the government
Means it's not capitalism then. Now hate not to go on a " real Scotsman" fallacy, but capitalism generally entails that government WON'T interfere with the market, meaning it won't help and won't damage any business by financial means. That's a core principle of capitalism, and if it's violated then it's almost no better than socialism. ( hence why some people tend to call this system "corporatism" as opposed to capitalism)
>>78984302
Capitalism has caused quite a few more deaths. Indirect, yes, not caused by tyrants, but deaths nonetheless.
>>78984322
Danzig.corridor.
Learn to Google Before you type.
>>78984302
USA, a lot of those capitalist countries all over the world, Germany, Armenia ect
Capitalism is the cause of hundreds of millions of deaths. To deny this fact points to one of two realities.it is either because you're igornant or pure evil, and in this case I think it is the latter
>>78984749
Danzig*
>>78981694
>hur dur I'm gonna be a pedant and use my own special snowflake definition and call everyone else an idiot if they don't use the same definition
>>78975802
remember to sage on every post
>>78984573
It's not. It's actually a very good equivalence.
>>78984637
I thouht we were all the same in the eyes of the law
>>78984220
>It's actually more likely the reverse
So economic policies have no effect on the current and future status of the economy, they actually affect the past. Got it.
>>78984371
>Now it's just mega corporations fighting for self preservation by doing their best to halt and restrict technological, ecological and social progress that comes in way of their profits and growth in this idiotic and unsustainable growth based economy.
The only reason things like this happen is because of government's expanded influence in the economy. Smaller businesses would succeed more often were it not for pointless regulations, taxes, and the minimum wage. Corporations wouldn't be able to corrupt politicians for their own financial gain if the government had no power for the corporations to exploit in the first place.
>>78984749
Stop moving the goalposts; the point was that war started not because of Hitler's policies (which the 'Allies' were actually proud of pre-war), but because he decided to do some very stupid shit.
>>78984879
Nope. Holding someone responsible for the actions of a family member is not the same as the voluntary exchange of cash. Try critical thinking for once
>>78984573
How is it a false equivalence? You're saying children should benefit from their parents doing well, but shouldn't be punished when their parents do poorly?
>>78984749
>Trust a hitlerabbo to know history
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Himmler
>inb4 JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSSSSSSS LIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>78985100
We're not ancient China, we only hold the individual accountable for their actions
>>78984322
>And Poland is "ethnically speaking" German territory?
the parts that were taken from the german empire in 1918 were. danzig itself was overwhelmingly ethnic german, as were a lot of other areas of then-poland.
>>78984763
>Name me one socialist country in South America
Venezuela, Chile, partially Brazil.
>>78975802
>fucking bastard rich capitalists how dare they give poor people jobs! they should be unemployed and on welfare!
>>78985022
>lets ignore all the millions of people that live in awful conditions in capitalist countries
>lets ignore all the people who work for pretty much nothing just so the rich kids can get the newest iphone
>>78984749
>falls for nazi propaganda 80 years later bcuz muh hitler is the redpill
KYS, stormfag leaf.
Where would I fall into in a socialist society? I am a skilled concrete finisher and can do all forms of work regarding concrete such as stucco foundations, floors and so on.
Would I be paid the same as a doctor and a fast food server? I don't get how that is supposed to work
>>78985303
>chile
>socialist
havent they been ultra capitalist ever since pinochet came in and cucked allende?
>>78984785
>Means it's not capitalism then. Now hate not to go on a " real Scotsman" fallacy, but capitalism generally entails that government WON'T interfere with the market, meaning it won't help and won't damage any business by financial means.
Like I said before in the thread, we only have free market today which means freedom to compete and freedom to restrict the freedom of others via competition.
Without goverment interference it would be done by mafia and their "optional" security services. Mafia is basically a family business with a product called "protection".
>>78982268
He also based his ideas on the labor theory of value, which is fucking retarded and was disregarded over a century ago.
>>78985409
probably about the same as the niggers sitting at home and continuing to demonize you.
>>78985303
>Venezuela
>Venezuelan workers own the means of production, there is no capital accumulation in Venezuela, private property (as we know it) was abolished in Venezuela
UH, i don't think so. Unless you are equaling socialism with state intervention.
>Chile
lol
>Brazil partially
What do you mean partially?
>>78985454
No. Current president is a woman from the socialist party.
>>78985409
No, but you would have the same rights, and the difference in pay wouldn't be as big.
>>78985409
you would be paid a wage equal to the value you create
>>78984933
>So economic policies have no effect on the current and future status of the economy, they actually affect the past. Got it.
That's not what I said. They had economic problems for reasons other than their economic system, and socialism proved insufficient to overcome those problems.
>The only reason things like this happen is because of government's expanded influence in the economy. Smaller businesses would succeed more often were it not for pointless regulations, taxes, and the minimum wage.
Some degree of regulation is necessary, to prevent competitors from being blocked from participating in the economy. If there's only one coal mine in town, and two steel mills, if the owner of one steel mill buys the coal mine and refuses to sell to the other steel mill, they'll have basically no practical way of obtaining coal.
>>78985030
>the war was started because of what Hitler did, not because of what Hitler did
>>78985067
Children legally cannot consent to a voluntary transaction, so they cannot receive their parents' money, or benefit from it in any way, until they turn 18.
>>78981236
Being able to make tough decisions infinitely trumps intelligence in the realm of financial success.
>>78985409
It0s definetely not here on /pol/ that you will find good answers to your doubts, bro
>>78980874
That's how I've always thought to do things. Go to community find a nice/decent job and work your way up
>>78985617
The main argument against socialism is that it is fundamentally flawed as it always devolves into state autocracy.
Which, interestingly, is exactly what happened in Venezuela.
>>78984785
>Means it's not capitalism then
>I will invent definitions
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism
>>78985515
capitalism depends on the rule of law being upheld and enforced by the government. that's why all the anarcho capitalists and ultra libertarians who meme about abolishing the state are retarded morons.
there is however a big difference between government enforcing the law to protect its citizens from violence, thuggery, racketeering, extortion and similar crimes, and government actively interfering in the voluntary exchange of money, goods and services between citizens.
>>78985199
Then we shouldn't give the individual benefits based on their parent doing well.
>>78975802
Traditionalism is the red pill, stay mad materialcucks.
>>78977390
Oh a "mere" organizer right?
I'd bet a grand sight unseen that whoever posted that delightful slice of retard has never organized anything more than a drum circle.
For fuck's sake the quality of college freshmen has really declined
>>78985903
finn fag pls go
OK first of most Americans don't know what socialism is, they confuse it with soviet communism.
Venezuela wasn't socialism, it was a bunch of corrupt politicians who hired from their own family and took all the money.
Socialism is basically like a silicon valley startup. People get together and make something, when it goes big they share the profits through shares.
Socialism is still the free market, it's just groups of individuals competing, like a co-op.
Like a village deciding to make one single product, they all share the profit, instead of one guy hiring the village and paying them the lowest wage possible.
Socialism works within capitalism.
The problem with communism is they had no mechanism to determine the value of goods like the free market does.
Socialism already exists in many companies in the US, these are always the best companies to work for cause they take care of their workers rather than treating them as slaves.
>>78984458
It's their only option.
Do something for a living or die is the way of human life as it has always been.
>>78985928
Making your own bread isn't efficient. Specialization is what makes economies successful, because someone who specializes in making bread can make bread for many people more efficiently than all those people could make bread for themselves. If traditionalism was such a great economic system, third world countries would be doing a lot better.
>>78985515
> mafia is basically a family that offers "protection"
Same as the government then?
The problem with that is that I think you mistake me for an anarchy capitalist, if someone hires a hitman to go and kill someone who works for an opposing company then the person and the hitman should both be arrested. Same thing with the mafia, if the Mafia with connections to Coke begin damaging the property of Pepsi, then the government should step in and do one of the tenants of its job ( to protect property ) and begin doing investigations with the hopeful conclusion that they arrest the perpetrators of this incident (the mafia)
>>78985928
That sounds very nice, if we lived in the 12th century.
Try making your own PC components.
>>78985617
>UH, i don't think so. Unless you are equaling socialism with state intervention.
You must define communism and socialism differently than I do. Venezuela has nationalized multiple major industries like oil and pisses their money away on welfare programs and """free""" commodities. This style of central planning is normally what people in the US consider socialism or communism, but I would like to hear your definition of the two so we don't talk around each other.
>lol
Literally the party in power is the socialist party.
>What do you mean partially?
They have nationalized areas of the economy like Venezuela has like Petrobras. Dilma was a literal commie.
>>78986107
>What is theft?
>>78979002
>Why does anyone need to earn six figures?
Meanwhile half the population of Africa is looking at you and thinking...
>why does anyone need more than 800 calories of barley per day and a grimy loin cloth?
>>78985409
You would be an exploiter who uses you higher level of skills (which you stole and in no way earned through practice and experience) to try to steal a bigger piece of the zero-sum pie than amatuer bricklayers. As punishment, your work will be required to be absolutely perfect, as befitting your arrogance, and your pay will be half what beginner bricklayers make, and you will have to sign all your creations with Glorious Leader's name instead of your own.
>>78977390
Same reason anyone else rises in society: they're power players. Power players understand people, and they understand how to organize people and play the power game in the world of people. That's valuable not just because very few people can actually play the game at any particularly advanced level, but because when you decide not to corral and monetize it you leave them to figure their own way to monetize. Power players find power, it's in their nature. They WILL rule your nations, they WILL exploit your systems, they WILL end up on top. Always to their benefit, and despite what people think, almost always to everyone else's lesser benefit. This principle is so fundamental to human behavior that they called it "Civilization".
That's why the wealth redistribution meme fails. Take all the official positions that would house power players away and figure that means they disappear. All you do is incentivise them to start playing against everyone's interest, winding up with them at the top of a corrupt shitheap that isn't helping anyone else.
As an aside, this is why women have always been denied political power. They're all fantastic players (just look at the success of their agitations), but they never manage the "benefit everyone else a little too" part.
If you belong to a credit union your already involved in socialist companies.
>>78986122
I dunno anon my mom used to make homemade bread and it was my favorite bread. Even if it's just a comfort thing isn't there something to be said about that? And isn't there more to life than the economy?
>>78975802
if you really like socialism, go to Venezuela. They could really use help giving out all that no food the people who have been in line for days to eat
>>78985917
We're not giving the benefits here, the parents are. Of course it's wrong to you because your parents didn't give you shit and it's just not fair :(
False equivalence
>>78986050
>Index of economic freedom
top laugh
>>78985903
>housing bubble
>capitalism left alone
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Reinvestment_Act
the government enacted legislation that strongly incentivised lenders to give out mortgages and loans to people who would not qualify for them by regular criteria. over time, lenders ended up with a lot of bad loans in their pockets, and got fucked in the ass when more and more payments were missed. that's what started the financial crisis.
>>78986486
Yes, it turns out one of the major pillars of capitalism is economic freedom.
Care to have an actual argument?
>>78977390
>>78986187
I don't define thisngs myself. I read sources and make my own opinions.
Here is a good start
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
>Venezuela has national companies
>therefore it's socialist
So USA is socialist for having a nationalized Army? Is it socialist for having a state foreign diplomacy?
>Literally the party in power is the socialist party.
>socialist party
>they are actually socialist
k m8 whatever
So North Korea is a democratic republic?
>They have nationalized areas of the economy like Venezuela has like Petrobras. Dilma was a literal commie.
So?
>>78979754
How dare people work hard and make money and then give that money to their children?
Don't they know there's like a million niggers on welfare who won't get a job but really need to buy weed?
Plus all the government agency employees, think of the poor government agency employees! How can they get massive pensions after a career of helping niggers buy weed unless you take the money evil rich people want to give to their own children?!?
>>78975802
Your definition of Capitalism is incorrect. I believe you are forgetting a word: Crony. Crony Capitalism is a corrupt form of pure Capitalism.
The people in the top part of the pic? Capitalists. The people in the bottom part? Crony Capitalists.
Stop spreading disinformation.
>>78986343
>being a sneaky rat is a valuable skill
thanks capitalism
>Power players find power, it's in their nature. They WILL rule your nations, they WILL exploit your systems, they WILL end up on top. Always to their benefit, and despite what people think, almost always to everyone else's lesser benefit. This principle is so fundamental to human behavior that they called it "Civilization".
thanks for explaining why the power (the means of production) needs to be put in the hands of the masses
>>78985902
>government actively interfering in the voluntary exchange of money, goods and services between citizens.
Civil liberties are rarely the problem and both communist and capitalist countries tend to violate those rights whether to protect the goverment or it's leaders or corporations and their profits.
Here's some food for thought.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xGyKuyGhaE
>>78986209
>>why does anyone need more than 800 calories of barley per day and a grimy loin cloth?
meme tier.
>>78986558
How is that chart made off?
>>78986067
>Socialism is basically like a silicon valley startup.
>Socialism is still the free market.
lmao good one leaf
>>78986372
Sure, nothing wrong with that, but it's when everyone tries to be self-sufficient in an individual level that it becomes very inefficient.
>>78986440
I wouldn't say it's not fair if NOBODY got things from their parents. The whole point is everyone should have more or less equal opportunity from birth. Otherwise the system fails and we end up with low social mobility.
>>78986566
Venezuela literally has public control of the means of production of all the major economic producers.
You're not making any sense.
>>78985758
>They had economic problems for reasons other than their economic system, and socialism proved insufficient to overcome those problems.
That's what I'm saying dummy. Do you have autism?
>Some degree of regulation is necessary, to prevent competitors from being blocked from participating in the economy. If there's only one coal mine in town, and two steel mills, if the owner of one steel mill buys the coal mine and refuses to sell to the other steel mill, they'll have basically no practical way of obtaining coal.
Striking a deal, buying it from somewhere else, or moving to a different field. That's not a scenario that requires regulation, you're just an idiot.
>>78986558
Just laughing that you actually think "economic freedom" is a point in favour of capitalism.
>>78986648
Capitalist are people who live off investments returns. People who live off wages are middle class and lower class
>>78975802
I guarantee the people in that bottom pic took out an outrageous loan they'll never be able to pay off to do that.
>>78982186
>58k
>after TEN years
>>78986677
The source is literally embedded in the infograph. Do your own research
>>78986067
>the burger flipper should get paid just as much as the CEO
it's amazing that people still take communism/socialism seriously
>>78986662
>Civil liberties are rarely the problem
in your described case, they absolutely are.
your point was basically
>free market means mafia thugs fucking shit up for the competition.
which is entirely correct. that's why a government is needed - to enforce the law and prevent organized crime from running wild and ruining society in the process.
>>78986780
>Striking a deal, buying it from somewhere else, or moving to a different field. That's not a scenario that requires regulation, you're just an idiot.
The people that own the mine have no reason to be willing to sell the coal to others, as that would mean they'd have to be competitive. Buying coal from somewhere else would incur high transportation costs. And sure, they could move to a different town, but that doesn't change the fact that the steel mill in the first town has a monopoly.
>>78986629
family is a societal concept
kill yourself
>>78975802
Hi Plebbit, please leave, k thx bai! :^)
>>78986760
State control != worker control
I think Marx even had a name for it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_capitalism
See, the state owning the means doesn't mean that the workers are empowered. The state can simply use the means to opress the working class even further.
>>78986843
>>78986843
Economic freedom is based on the amount of regulation or business and personal finance.
Please demonstrate how this is against the philosophy of capitalism.
>>78975802
>>78984492
I'm on your side, stupid.
>>78986938
>that doesn't change the fact that the steel mill in the first town has a monopoly
You have no idea what monopoly means. Educate yourself, you're seriously retarded.
>>78986906
He thinks in another 10 years he will be a millionaire
>>78986918
source?
>>78986677
>meme tier.
Is that the fancy new millennial way to say "yeah wow, I actually have no response whatsoever to the point you raised?"
>>78987008
I don't give a fuck what Marx thought. He was an idiot and his ideas are based around the debunked labor theory of value.
Socialism is the public control of the means of production. That's its actual definition.
Venezuela has government control of the means of production.
Stop posting.
>>78986918
epin strawman friend
what if people agreed on what a fair wage distribution was?
no this couldn't possibly work
oh wait
>At Mondragon, there are agreed-upon wage ratios between executive work and field or factory work which earns a minimum wage. These ratios range from 3:1 to 9:1 in different cooperatives and average 5:1. That is, the general manager of an average Mondragon cooperative earns no more than 5 times as much as the theoretical minimum wage paid in his/her cooperative. In reality, this ratio is smaller because there are few Mondragon worker-owners that earn minimum wages, because most jobs are somewhat specialized and are classified at higher wage levels. The wage ratio of a cooperative is decided periodically by its worker-owners through a democratic vote.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation#Wage_regulation
>>78987081
Monopoly means there's only one company able to participate in providing a specific product or service. That means they are not subject to competition, and thus have no incentive to provide a reasonable price/quality ratio to the consumer.
>>78987009
It's not "against the philosophy of capitalism".
It's just not a point to defend.
Trying to reach this "economic freedom" is precisely what makes capitalist societies a "dog eat dog" world.
>>78987008
Because a state never dissolves itself to become anarchist. Which is why 'voting' for communist or socialist parties is fucking retarded even if you believe in those ideologies.
>>78987316
You are objectively incorrect. Higher levels of economic freedom objectively lead to higher standards of living.
Please post your own economic regression study demonstrating the link between government control of economies and quality of life.
I'll wait.
>>78987154
Go check out the average calorie intake of african nations. I bet not even one of them as a valour close to 800. Outside of war zones, starvation is not that prevalent in niggerland.
>>78987169
>Socialism is the public control of the means of production. That's its actual definition.
>MY DEFINITONS MATTER!!! LALALALALLALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!! QUICKLY, TURN ON FOX NEWS!!!!!
whatever bro. I can't fore you to see clearly, only help you.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
>>78986315
Incidentally, this isn't made up, it was actual Soviet Union policy under Stalin, to prevent "mobilization of the bourgeoise." Much like Lenin's Hanging Order, it was a spectacular success at preventing the middle class from moving in any direction except down.
>>78987448
Are you trolling or are you actually this stupid?
>>78980432
>hundreds of other companies have a monopoly
wut?
>Children don't deserve the wealth their parents busted their asses to get and keep
You will hang from the neck until dead one day OP, I guarentee it
>>78986906
>what is salary being different in different regions based on cost of living and demand
>>78987394
Communism is not to be taken seriously. It was only a thought exercise by Marx, and he didn't devote much time to it.
>>78987435
What is economic freedom?
>>78987435
>Higher levels of economic freedom objectively lead to higher standards of living.
True, for a small percentage of the population. For the rest, it's a constant struggle to live properly.
>Please post your own
Did I even say anything about that? I'm just attacking capitalism because I believe it's a shit system, I'm not saying other existing systems are better or worse.
>>78986906
>>58k
>>after TEN years
Socialistfags are always funny like that. It's plight of working man from morning till night when they TALK
but in reality they're spoiled rich kids from wealthy neighborhoods and expensive colleges. So they look down on working men and couldn't imagine actually ever BEING one. It's all being some non profit fag writing white papers for other non profits funded by rich guy foundations.
The dripping poisonous disdain for $58K individual income which is above the US median $54K HOUSEHOLD income which is among the highest in the world.
Blech... You made a mere $58K for your hard work, my dad pays more than that for hookers at his office in one year!
>>78975802
Why don't all you fucking moron bernouts just move to a socialist country and shut the fuck up?
>>78987558
In what way are the means of production of Venezuela socially owned and democratically controled, bro?
>>78987630
Ayo so you be sayin we should take ALL OF OUR SAVINGS AND FUCKING BURN IT ALL when we're about to die because fuck children, right?
>>78987195
>what if people agreed on what a fair wage distribution was?
If they can make it work, great. The government shouldn't force businesses to run that way if they don't want to.
>>78987300
So is the restaurant down the street from my house a monopoly because it's the only place to buy food on that particular plot of land?
>>78987705
Another lie. The study specifically looked at per capita GDP.
Please stop posting.
>>78987711
>Socialistsfags
If anything, it's the fault of capitalism that people believe an above-average income is trash tier.
>>78987741
Because they are owned by the government, which is commonly refered to in economic and political context as "public" or "socially".
You just linked a definition without even reading it. Stop.
>>78987785
>So is the restaurant down the street from my house a monopoly because it's the only place to buy food on that particular plot of land?
Do you have easy access to another restaurant?
>>78975802
socialism only works if none of your population are useless retards who simply eat resources.
and guess what
>>78980874
>Join Navy
>Become electrician
>Decline to re-enlist when President Black Guy says he'll let the queers in.
>Was a hot-shit welder in high school, I'll go drive pile.
>Scab pilebuck for a few years, 70 hour work week @ $30/hr.
>Niggercare passes, company goes under.
>Move to far-northern California and fix appliances, take my service charge piecework, make anywhere from $280-$700 (before taxes) depending on the day.
>>78987727
Hey no way I'd be able to afford my Toms loafers and free trade coffee and Prius in those shithole places!
I want to be right here in the free market west where everyone is so fucking rich that even lazy protestor types with bullshit degrees can afford the Internet and smart phones and cable.
>>78987907
>Because they are owned by the government, which is commonly refered to in economic and political context as "public" or "socially".
Ok, you can be pedantic all you want.
>What one claims to be != what one really his
It's all i'm trying to say. State claims to be for the people by the people, but you and i both know that most of the times it's bullshit, and the state acts on the interests of the very few.
You can go and repeat this
>Because they are owned by the government, which is commonly refered to in economic and political context as "public" or "socially".
again, and you are possibly right, but if you think for some seconds, you will see that Venezuela state owning some means of production is not the same as the actuall workers owning it
>>78987919
>he's actually arguing that it is a monopoly
>>78987789
do you even know what gdp means
do you even realize that gdp doesn't take into account the distribution of wealth
did you even read my post
>>78988024
and yet for all your hard work you still make a fraction of a fraction of the elite who never worked a full day in their life
the american dream ;_;7
>>78984763
>Vietnam was never a socialist country
Literally the *Socialist* Republic of Vietnam.
>>78988316
If your town has only one restaurant, and you don't have easy access to no other, then that restaurant has monopoly in the restaurant bussiness. But since you can still cook for yourself, the restaurant still has to compete.
>>78988464
And north Korea is a Democratic Republic?
>>78987785
>oh so this is fairer for everyone
>we shouldn't implement this nationwide cus freedoms
if the freedom you have is used to oppress others is it really freedom?
>>78988314
And as i posted above, the classic criticism of socialism is that it always devolves into state ownership, hurting the owners it claims to help.
>>78988326
GDP per capita and PPP are the go to metrics for comparing economic well being in nations. You don't know what you're talking about.
The issue is governments AND private enterprise over-exploiting anyone who chooses to work. Capitalism is beautiful, more than anything else, with tempered greed. This is why we fight the eternal jew.
>>78988604
workers**
>>78988556
Who's being pedantic now?
>>78988604
>And as i posted above, the classic criticism of socialism is that it always devolves into state ownership, hurting the owners it claims to help.
It's probably a valid criticism. Let's just wait until autom atization hit us harder to see the developments
economic well being in nations != citizen well being
>>78988730
Economic health is one of the best indicators of quality of life.
>>78986138
So who funds the goverment to all this and who makes up all the rules to keep the competition fair?
It'll probably need army and weapons so more expenses from there as well, not to mention who'd they buy their weapons off from so that they don't interfere with the competition?
Oh and they'll probably need basic social security services to provide education and healthcare to people so that you get fair chance to compete no matter how poor your family is. But who will provide and fund the said services?
This is starting to sound very familiar..
>>78988698
I'm just giving him an example in the contrary. He says that Vietnam is socialist because Vietnam calls itself socialist, then i say North Korea is a democratic republic because NK calls itself a democratic republic
>>78985778
What Leftist circle-jerk media would you recommend we consume, comrade?
>>78988567
>if the freedom you have is used to oppress others is it really freedom?
It's not oppression. Oppression would be holding business owners down because they're too intelligent and ambitious compared to the people around them.
>>78988869
There is a difference between limited government and anarchy.
>>78988896
dunno, google "socialism blogs" or stuff like that. Maybe even /leftypol/
>>78985693
He said socialism, not capitalism.
>>78988823
Not only is this not true, if it was it would be a shitty argument for capitalism, because it would mean the only way to have a good quality of life would be to earn as much money as possible.
>>78987785
>So is the restaurant down the street from my house a monopoly because it's the only place to buy food on that particular plot of land?
In a sense. Really, the line is drawn at the point where a business no longer needs to be competitive. So if there's another restaurant down the street, it's not really functionally a monopoly, but if the next restaurant is 20 miles away, then it might be effectively a monopoly.
>>78989093
>HURR DURR IN SOCIALISM EVERYONE GETS PAYED THE SAME
IS it Fox News? Or Mises?
>>78985409
You'd work hard every day at first. After some time, you'd realize that you can slack and still get rewarded the same. Everyone else in the workforce realizes this too. Suddenly everyone has less and less distributed to them because everyone is producing less. It gets so bad that people start to die of starvation. People who criticize the socialistic/communistic policies are sent to prisons. More and more people starve to death, millions are malnourished. People who criticize the government are outright killed. Millions more starve. The government realizes that communism is retarded and they begin to adopt capitalism to fix things.
>>78975802
>socialism
>grab a gun, murder all the rich people, and take their stuff because it's actually yours in the first place if you use insane troll logic
>capitalism
>get an education and then a job
the trick is to not be a retard lel
>>78989325
>HURR DURR WITH CAPITALISM YOU ARE NOT PAID EQUAL TO THE VALUE YOU CREATE
>>78985127
>>78985391
Morons.
The allies called it a "false flag", but it was the truth.
>>78985903
>three mile island.
Chernobyl
>Love canal.
Beijing's air
>housing bubble.
Got nothing here
>Asian sweatshops.
Asian sweatshops
>A.I.G.
J.E.W.
>ford pinto.
Lada and yugo.
>>78989540
>got nothing here
housing bubble = a direct result of government interference in loan industry
>>78989465
100% true
you are paid the value you create minus what your overlords want to take to fund their new jet
best part is they have cucked you into loving it
>>78989322
If a business starts price gouging in an area due to lack of competition, it creates an atmosphere for another business to enter that market and seize the opportunity to make that money.
The free market will literally fix it.
>>78989419
>the trick is to not be a retard lel
seems like you failed hard at it
>>78989739
>you are paid the value you create minus what your overlords want to take to fund their new jet
This is where competition comes in. You're wrong, Ahmed. Deal with it.
>>78989739
>Corporate overlords will screw you at every turn
>Big government is altruistic and would never do such a thing
KYS euroscum
>>78988326
What of distribution of wealth? Distribution of wealth is a useless metric that doesn't actually mean anything for the simple reason that the fact Mark getting 100 more cows while having 200 doesn't mean you aren't better off when you get 15 cows after having 30. The notion that you deserve some of Mark cows because reasons while ignoring the fact you, yourself, are better off is completely retarded.
>>78982216
you write like a nigger who never attended shit in his life.
>>78989908
>Talks bad about capitalism
>That means he supports state dictartoship
ebin
>>78990025
>Distribution of wealth is a useless metric that doesn't actually mean anything for the simple reason that the fact Mark getting 100 more cows while having 200 doesn't mean you aren't better off when you get 15 cows after having 30.
>they say stuff like that and expect to be taken seriously by people with 3 digits iq and over 16
>>78989465
>>78989739
are you even serious?
you don't get paid according to how much value you create because you don't create it alone.
yeah, the product you make is worth more than what you get paid for it. but to produce the product, you use some other guy's tools and machinery, you rely on multiple other dudes who assist in production and organisation, and money is only made once people in the sales department (with help from marketing department) find a buyer for it.
ALL OF THIS goes into running the business. the risk and liability associated with all of this is on the back of the owner, not yours.
you get paid according to your contribution to the total profit being made, and to the market value of your work.
>>78990149
I am sure, mate, but that doesn't disprove my point. What negative effect is mark 100 cows having on your own gain of 15? Why do you deserve a share of his?
>>78989894
Without the government getting involved to break up and prevent monopolies there would be no competition.
>>78990062
>Implying those in power in socialist countries aren't better off than those they rule
>Implying socialism and big government aren't related
>>78989772
Other businesses won't be able to compete because (using the steel mill example from before) they won't be able to obtain the coal they need at a low enough cost.
>>78990428
The only legit monopolies in the US came about as a result of property rights and laws not being enforced. In the event of an actual nationwide monopoly, sure, you can have government intervention.
>>78990619
You're not really supporting capitalism if you support the government getting involved in the market. You are supporting a neutered version of capitalism.
>>78981977
>over half the population doesn't count
You're damn right about that, we need more war and diseases in Africa
>>78990557
If a business can corner the entire coal market, then you have a legit monopoly. That'd never happen though if laws are properly upheld.
>>78990619
But monopolies are, invariably, gubernamental constructs. Hell, even the monopoly example de jure, Standard Oil, had hundreds of competitors still existing and making profits, when it got dismembered the price of oil nearly doubled across the country, and Standard Oil brought out of poverty millions of people (many of which lost their jobs once the antitrust laws were done with the company).
Leaving the opening for government to fuck shit up is a terrible idea.
>>78990836
>it's one extreme or the other :^]
ebin
>>78991010
>captialism is great!
>but it needs to be regulated
ebin
>>78989540
Maybe just maybe it's not capitalism or socialism that's the problem, maybe the problem is deeper than that.
Maybe it's the whole monetary system and growth based economy itself that's flawed?
>>78989721
>housing bubble = a direct result of government interference in loan industry
Likely caused by whatever corporate lobbyist that are swarming around your goverment officials.
>>78989008
Such society would fall from it's own impossibility, mainly because competition would cause sever income inequality and poverty for some and extreme wealth for others causing civil unrest up to the point where goverment would be overthrown by it's people. Alternatively it would be overthrown or corrupted through money and power.
>>78979175
Inheriting good genes that made money and inheriting money, mate. Nothing wrong here.
>>78990918
Do you really think walmart wouldn't buy out all of its competition if there weren't laws stopping it from doing so?
>>78991330
>Maybe just maybe it's not capitalism or socialism that's the problem, maybe the problem is deeper than that.
Human nature is the answer you're looking for. That doesn't mean some systems aren't better than others.
>>78991178
>>captialism is great!
>>but it needs to be regulated
That's correct. see examples: ancient Egypt, ancient Greece, ancient Rome, modern day Europe, and the USA (all pinnacles of civilization during their respective eras btw :^] in case you forgot)
