Brexit is a fucking abuse of democracy
>They elect their politicians to make decisions of this kind in their place ( cuz they are not retarded )
>the politicians estabilish a referendum to exit from Europe
>>78790811
one man's abuse is another man's foreplay
pepper that angus boy.
Is this the first referendum you've witnessed or something? Why is this one more of an "abuse" than any previous one?
Not to mention that representative democracy is the abuse of democracy, especially the representative democracy by proxy present in the EU.
>>78791064
Because you put too much power in the hands of retarded
>>78791062
I'im italian
>>78791186
That's how representative democracy works. Or did you mean to say that the public is retarded? You can have that opinion if you want, but then you really don't believe in democracy so don't presume like you do
>>78791557
italians are basically tan jews without intelligence
>>78790811
calm down itally the EU was doomed from the start. it'll be ok . your pedo priest hiding pope will probably give cheep blow jobs when the vatican cant pay its bills no more. wont that make you happy
>>78791784
Highest IQ in europe m8
>>78790811
I love you people
Majority vote in your favor? Glorious democracy. The will of the people has finally been heard!
Majority vote against what you want? People are too stupid to vote, take their rights away.
This is why you fags submitted to a fascist regime
>Conservatives promise referendum in GE to stop defection to UKIP
>"Don't worry guys it will be a clean sweep for remain, every major political party supports it!"
>Leave wins
Brexit was a bluff that spectacularly backfired on Cameron. Nothing more nothing less
>>78790811
Go roll some gnocchi you butthurt gniggers
>>78792174
north italy carrying the team. as we know, they were mainly germans.
italians still scream and flail their arms at each other in the streets over perceived body language slights. i mean, they're niggers.
>>78791557
Francesco I swear to fuck if that's you
>>78791677
Correction. This is how direct democracy works. And by the looks of it, pretty badly.
Most people are fucking idiots who know zilch about economics. That is undeniable. Politicians are on the whole less retarded than general public.
Giving such complex decisions to a bunch of idiots never works out well as they have no true appreciation for the potential consequences of their choice.
Cameron will go down as one of the most reckless PMs in British history.
>>78791186
By the way museum grade moron, representatives don't always represent their people, and for the most part vote for their own interests. So if you think 51% voting away the rights of 49% is bad, 1% voting away the rights of 99% is strictly worse.
>>78792687
*than the general public
>>78792687
thats why we designed a republic, not a democracy. and why our founders on multiple occasions stated that governors and presidents must find themselves taking steps against the will of their own people.
>>78790811
deal with it fag, italy niggers are not white therefore no nothing about democracy
>>78792687
The point is that the public has nobody but themselves to blame if their decision was wrong, that kind of experience will to some degree instill a higher sense of responsibility. Representative democracy breeds ignorance and irresponsibility because you can always blame the politicians if shit goes wrong instead of blaming yourself for voting like a dumb shitter.
>>78792743
>51% should not have a voice when 49% don't want it.
>49% should get what they want even though 51% disagree.
How do you live with your hypocrisy? If the rules dictated 75% turnout and Leave had gotten 60% of the vote then you would be arguing for a followup referendum where 80% turnout is required with 65% wanting to leave, stop moving goalposts and live in reality.
>>78792488
>>78793419
Is that really worth wrecking the country over?
Politics isn't about "teaching people lessons", it's about sensible governance in the best interests of the general public. And in any case, people would forget the lessons of this Brexit vote a few decades down the line.
There wasn't even much public pressure on Cameron to hold this god-awful referendum. It was mostly internal party pressure and Cameron being worried about the potential UKIP threat.
In reality, Labour are the ones who should've been more worried but Ed Miliband had the sense to realise that this was not a decision to leave up to the general public. That's what you call responsible governance.
>>78793590
The reality is that politics is falling apart in my country and not even the politicians who fucking campaigned for this shit to happen know what the hell they're doing.
That isn't democracy in action. This is what a failure of democracy looks like. Additionally, if you had any real knowledge of UK politics you'd realise this referendum was mostly a vote against the elites. The EU was just a convenient bogeyman.
>>78793987
britain won't actually leave the EU. propaganda machines are in full effect, i wouldn't be surprised if the british themselves orchestrated this to throw their weight around in the EU a bit more.
>look half of us frankly don't want to be here, so why don't we rethink some details of our arrangements... we're trying to be reasonable, but you know, democracy and all that!
>>78793987
democracy has a built in control to keep the most ignorant out of the voting booths. If you care enough to have a strong opinion, you show up to vote. that way, people who are engaged in the decision are the ones making the choice, and those who are more ignorant get less involved. Alternatively, if you let politicians dictate major choices, inevitably they will only vote based on their own interests, power corrupts the few and is diluted by they many.
>>78793987
At any rate, making referendums is preferable to handing over the reigns of your country to a supranational union. The former might result in some short term destablization but the latter results in the long term annexation of your country.
Not that I am anyone to tell you brits what you should do with your country, but surely you at the very least want to keep your self-governance and be able to decide that yourselves?
>>78794215
>>78792687
>Argues politicians should be in charge because they know what they are doing.
>18 minutes later correct self and say that the politicians who are in charge don't know what they are doing.
>>78795079
>"politicians on the whole are less retarded than the general public"
Read the entirety of my posts. Obviously it's more nuanced than politicians know exactly what they're doing.
Occasionally it will go wrong. This is what happens when it goes wrong. Unsurprisingly, it happened when they gave the public control over an extremely complex decision.
>Italian EU shill
Oh, what a suprise. I remember when you didnt leech off others, and had a own currency. A pack of chewinggum wqas like 2000 PastaShekels. Of course you stupid fuck wouldnt want the EUSSR to fail
>>78795400
Politicians don't have your best interests at heart.
>>78795673
So we should leave big decisions up to Dave from down the pub?
Obviously there needs to be a mechanism to deselect dodgy politicians but leaving important decisions up to people who don't know their arse from their ears never ends well.
>>78795673
in a well-organized political economy they do
>>78796063
What the fuck is wrong with Dave from down the pub, he's lived in this country just as long as you have, and if he cares about politics enough to have a strong opinion, then he is just as valid as you in terms of voting rights.
>>78795400
I did read the entirety of your post, you don't think people should be in charge because god forbid people be allowed to decide dick about the rules in the place they live, and you don't think that politicians had a good idea of what they were doing with one of the most complex political decisions in the history of your country.
>>78796063
People get smarter when they don't have politicians to represent them, especially when politicians' words are non-binding(presidential candidates are just reality show superstars and almost always go back on them), while referendums are binding.
>>78791186
>>78791557
I agree, we shouldn't let you vote, you are obviously too fucking stupid.
>>78797113
Jesus. Let's just let everyone become doctors, scientists and economists without any formal training or experience.
Politics isn't a game for fucking Joe Bloggs to play. I know you want it to be but the world doesn't fucking work like that. We have experts in certain fields for a reason.
Anti-intellectualism is the greatest scourge of human development.
>>78795608
Italy's actually one of the few contributors to the EU, and their rules prevent the Italians from murdering those subhumans in the ocean like they deserve
This guy's just a cuck
>>78798157
You're putting these people on pedestals but they're not intellectuals just because they have long careers in bribery and writing convoluted laws to put people in jail for facebook posts.
Democracy is about self determination and if the British public doesn't want to be a part of the EU's multicultural federalist experiment they have no obligation to just because some politicians can make big bucks doing it.
>>78798157
Belief in "Intellectuals and bureacrats and people who know better" is what caused the 10000 christian wars, created the countless islamic tyrannies, the deaths of millions and enslavement of billions in communism, and turned the roman republic into the roman empire.
Fuck off with your idiotic belief in that higher-ups care about you as more than tax livestock.
>>78792547
>An american calling other people nigger
>>78798157
>being this hyperbolic to straw man me
Referendums exist as an option for a reason, people who choose to participate can participate. Interest in the system is the safeguard that keeps out the most ignorant in that case. You have higher offices for higher level choices and THEY allowed it to go to referendum. Get mad about it all you want, but Joe fucking Shmoe is allowed a voice in some instances. Go ahead and call the vast majority of people stupid, you are clearly the only smart person in the fucking room who should be allowed to make decisions. You are going to continue to do mental gymnastics to try and subvert the will of the people because you are a fascist at heart.
>>78798989
>brazilian calling out american calling out niggers, thus implying im a nigger or associate with niggers in any way
>>78799145
>because every decision needs to be made by direct democracy
We have representative democracies for a reason.
Additionally, do you actually know anything about UK politics? If you did you'd realise that the prominent leave campaigners have no fucking clue what the post-Brexit plan is. The main campaigner, Boris Johnson, essentially saw this as a play at the Tory leadership. That's why despite winning he's looking downcast as fuck because he wasn't prepared for the British people to fall for his empty bullshit. We've spent 40 years integrating with the EU and it will take someone with serious mental fortitude to unpick that integration. He was hoping he'd have a united UK to take the reigns of but the reality is that we're more divided by class, region and age than we've ever been in our history. A narrow remain vote would've been best for him but now he has to deal with a country that's falling apart because of baseless guff he spent the last few months campaigning on. The lies he purported such as £350m for the NHS and control of immigration are already falling apart.
In fact, there are strong rumours we'd have to become part of the free movement of labour directive even if we leave. I wonder how many people voting leave knew this was a possibility? Or maybe the fact that we'd still sign up to EU regulations? Did they even understand or even fully appreciate the terms of exit?
You guys have these wistful notions of democracy but in the real world things aren't black and white. There's a metric fuckton of grey.
>>78799145
And do you really think I care about calling members of the public stupid?
I'm stupid when it comes to many issues. For example, I wouldn't try to carry out a triple bypass as I would have no fucking clue what I'm doing. The same goes for many things. However, with respect to politics and the economy, I can say with confidence that I research and understand more than most. That's not me boasting, that's a fact. The majority of people don't care enough to read into any of these things. And yes, they may be allowed to vote for a government in general elections but their voting rights don't extend to every single law that government passes. Additionally, governments are only in power for a limited time, this referendum is permanent. As such, it's a completely different circumstance.
In this case, the elected government fucked up in giving this choice to the people. So yes, they're not perfect but if you look at the number of MPs in support of remaining in the EU it was around 70%. So if this decision had been left solely up to our elected government we wouldn't have left.
