Christian General
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It's been a long time since the ADL has called the Orthodox Church to follow the suit of their brothers, the Protestants and Catholics. But Orthodox still refuse to comply, is there any excuse for this?
>ADL Urges Orthodox Christian Churches To Excise Anti-Semitism From Liturgy
>Eric J. Greenberg, ADL Associate Director of Interfaith Affairs, noted that some Orthodox liturgy still refer to Jews as Christ-killers, and that some Easter services include calls for revenge against Jews. He noted that the Roman Catholic Church and several Protestant churches have removed anti-Semitic passages from its liturgy, and that the Vatican repudiated the deicide charge against the Jewish people in 1965.
http://archive.adl.org/presrele/chjew_31/5069_31.html#.V271CvkrJmN
(((Greenberg)))
What is even going on anymore. Jewing against religion?
>>78721663
>calls for revenge against Jews
I don't understand. Shouldn't thry be thanked for their part in doing the stuff? It's good that he was killed, right? So, why be mad at the peoplr who did it for doing their part in the plan?
ANGLICANISM OR LUTHERANISM? WHAT ARE KEY DIFFERENCES?
>>78722195
Anglicanism is Lutheranism with optional belief in Catholic theology.
>>78722195
Anglicanism is for Anglos and Lutheranism is for Aryans.
When the Fedora Atheists start shitposting, please link them to this post to save yourself some time explaining to them why they're edgy fourteen year olds that worship Dawkin's penis.
Have a good day Christ bros.
>>78721663
hey joo,
is there any excuse for the antigentile Talmud?
when will heebs reject hatred?
>>78723533
The Talmud is a collection of opinions by rabbis, the Orthodox Liturgy is their official Church teaching and considered infallible.
The Orthodox Church hasn't barely changed jack shit since 400AD, they HATE diverting from hardcore tradition.
Meanwhile you have the pope licking peoples feet and saying christianity is like isis.
Catholics need to boot him the fuck out, desu, you guys are based enough to do it, you just have a traitor as a pope right now.
>>78721663
Because its orthodoxy. The strictest non-revisionist denomination, I would guess.
>>78724134
Appeal to tradition is not an argument.
>>78722085
Does no one have answers to this? I'm really curious.
If Jesus dying was good how are the people who killed him bad? The whole plan was that he'd be killed, whoever did it was just doing their part in the divine plan.
>>78721663
The ADL literally asked the Bavarian Passion Play to please remove the crucifixion part.
>>78724373
Traditionalism is a fantastic argument, actually.
Look at what happened to the Episcopals.
>tfw jew
>tfw Christian friends took me to their church for lunch
>Beautiful white Christian girls
>Loyal
>Have values similar to my own
>Some of the few decent women left in 2016
>No chance because i'm Jewish
Fuck this gay earth.
>>78723718
The Talmud is the "liturgy" of Rabbinical Jews. Orthodox churches are autocephalous. Judaism is more unified than Orthodoxy because you have to persuade a smaller number of people.
>>78724607
I guess the idea is if you mastermind a plot and it involves expectation that your wife will cheat on you.
Hey guys.
What do you think the mark of the beast will be?
Some crackpot theory nutjobs were trying to say cellphones... but as many of you know, that theory isn't really held up by scripture. If you think so, I can explain to you why it just doesn't work. Same with SSN, etc.
>>78725075
RFID chip m8
they already use them in Sweden
>>78725075
>What do you think the mark of the beast will be?
Does it really matter? There's a lot of shit that has to happen before it gets to that point.
Prophecies aren't real anyway.
>>78724704
If Jesus said to not hate, how can you support homophobia?
>>78724823
You don't know what liturgy is, Jews have liturgy, the Talmud isn't the liturgy
Judaism is way less unified than the Orthodoxy Church. The Orthodox Church has autonomous administration, that's it. Judaism has widely differing beliefs on practice and belief,the major three branches are Reform, Conservative, and Orthodox, and they are very different, even from rabbi to rabbis within each branch.
>>78724757
Why would there be no chance? By "Jewish" did you mean to say "beta, but also not good at anything in particular, and not rich"?
>>78724373
No, it's more of a human life. Something Jews hold in contempt.
>>78725335
israel is Jewish Orthodox
JEWISH ORTHODOX
>>78725257
This is more valid, but -
>>78725333 has a great point.
Even if RFID chips end up being the mark of the beast, they aren't right now.
This is why the phone theory, the SSN theory, the barcode theory are all bullshit.
The mark of the beast comes AFTER the Antichrist. That means the RFID chip can't be the mark until the Antichrist is on this Earth, rules the world, gives life unto the image of the beast (Possibly Sentient AI), and then MANDATES all take the chip or die.
Everything else is just theorists trying to check the boxes for a vague concept in Revelation.
>>78725335
Typical Jew arguments, words mean what you want them to mean, "Reform" are Jews when you want them to be and otherwise not. In a discussion in which you ask us to erase our entire culture. You will not stop until Jews die.
>>78725557
True, but Orthodox rabbis don't all agree, they argue all the time. Arguing with God is even an approved practice.
>>78722195
Anglicanism is Catholic-lite, while Lutheranism is scripture focused, in the most general of terms.
In practice...I largely found there really wasn't too much of a difference when I went to either. Anglicans/Episcopalians use the '...catholic and Apostolic Church...', while Lutherans remove the catholic part with Christian. Found that Lutherans, well the Missouri & Wisconsin Synod ones, are more conservative leaning.
>>78725335
When did Jesus say to embrace sin? Jesus clearly commands people to hate the right thing for the right reasons.
>>78725724
Jews agree to kill a Gentile and disagree what his hair color is.
>2016
>being a christian cuck
>>78725426
No, I mean because i'm not willing to convert and neither are they.
I make 100K/year at 23, will that be rich enough for them?
>>78725335
homophobia is a marketing term, intended to attack ones masculinity for not accepting homosexuality. but disgust is not fear, it's just rejection of behaviour that is harmful.
Yeshua rejected sin, but accepted sinners. and also said that many are born as eunuchs. you can accept that any way you like.
>>78724704
Please don't remind me about the Episcopals. That church left me to become a den of heathens, blasphemers, and unfiltered heretics.
I want to have communion every morning by myself. What sort of bread and juice is best to use (alcohol isn't an option, but I can get nonalcoholic wine)? Any ritual I should perform while doing it?
>>78725724
Isn't there a passage in the Talmud where a Rabbi argues with God and God actually change his mind?
It's pretty funny.
>>78725993
>trusting a pope from the society of jesus
these people are not christians, worse than jews
>>78726058
Why do you or they have to convert?
You should listen to Dennis Prager talk about marriage, you should feel free to go after a Christian girl.
>>78725993
christians don't have a pope
>nice try faggot
>>78725335
>>78725843
The people holding up those signs aren't saying "don't hate gay people" they're trying to turn christian sects into SJW breeding grounds like the Black Lives Matter Pentecostals.
I don't hate gay people btw, I am one. I acknowledge sinful nature and those gay pride parades are nothing but propaganda.
>>78726215
Link?
>>78726142
Catholics are not that diffrent.
>>78724252
>>78725724
protestants also argue. this isn't an argument.
>>78723209
Good stuff, thanx
>>78726373
Look up Dennis Prager Male Female Hour on YouTube or listen to his radio show or visit his blog or buy one of his books.
Friends, I think it is easy to look in Revelation and very clearly see where we are heading.
Now, much of my interpretation deals with technology. Technology is great. Current tech, that is. With the internet through my phone and PC I have been able to learn enough to become faithful. Without the internet, I wouldn't even be a Christian. Specifically a Catholic.
Now, even though the internet is a wonderful thing and most tech developments will do great things for our world, we must be wary in a few areas.
Revelation 13:15 -
And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
Note the "to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak."
Apply this to modern day. How, possibly, could this be achieved?
Well, the image is an object. It is a physical thing. And it is given life and is able to speak. In my eyes, the image will be a robot, and the life will be AI.
But why would the world worship an AI?
The AI would profess itself as super intelligent. It would blaspheme against God. It would lead people away from God and say, no, that isn't real, that isn't true.
But what about the mark of the beast?
"And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:"
Since this AI will effectively be a supercomputer and be in control of our world, alongside the Antichrist and the False Prophet, it will most likely require all to willingly take on a means to be tracked and identified. This will all occur after very tough times, so the excuse may be that it is to make sure that rations of food, of supplies, are orderly and managed properly.
Alternatively, this may just mean worshipping the image of the beast by believing what it says about God, or by doing something to profess that.
But, there's more.
>>78726171
There's times in the Bible that happens. I think it was when Moses was talkong to God and he's like "tell my people to pray to me a thousand times a day" and Moses says "mate, your being a dip, that's way too much". So they haggle a bit and settle on a lower amount of praying. I'm sure something like that happened.
Anybody know the story I'm thinking of?
>>78725335
>le not approving homosexuality means you hate them meme
>>78726407
Catholics can still recover, they just need to unfuck the Vatican before the current pope goes more AWOL than he already is.
>>78726447
>Thomas Aquinas
How can a man be so based, the physical body shouldn't be able to hold that much energy.
>>78726407
>Schönborn is a member of the Elijah Interfaith Institute Board of World Religious Leaders.[31]
>Elijah Interfaith Institute is a nonprofit, international, interfaith organization which was founded by Rabbi Alon Goshen-Gottstein in 1997.
>founded by Rabbi Alon Goshen-Gottstein
Just leave us the fuck alone, Jews!
>>78726586
This mark may represent transhumanism.
The opportunity of "immortality" through tech may be offered. This would make sense, it connects back to satan's first lie (you surely will not die). It would also be another counterfeit of God.
Everyone would most likely willingly take this. Those who wouldn't would be pressured out of good intention and possibly killed.
However, this will be a false promise. The people will be cheating death and ignoring God. The fake eternal life they will be given won't be eternal, and when the second coming occurs, they will not be saved by Christ.
>>78724757
You could always accept the Lamb of God Yeshua Christ.
http://pastebin.com/xMQ9wAwW
>>78725993
>>78726407
This
>>78726407
There have been worse popes. It's like the roman emperors. Some of them are good, and some of them are bad.
>>78726632
There was the bit which Joseph Heller brilliantly satirizes in God Knows.
God sees the Wandering Israelites turning back to Egyptian idol worship. He's so livid that He wants to kill them all. Moses points out that God going through all that trouble to bring His people to the middle of a wasteland, just to annihilate them, would make Him look the slightest bit silly.
>>78727140
>Roman Emperors
>Some of them are good
Emperor Constantine (was he ever formally canonized by the church? he needs to be).
>and some of them are bad.
>Emperor Nero.
Raped little boys, fucked his own mother and asked his tutor to kill himself in front of his family because he was bored.
>>78724373
yes it is. Its the perfect one in this case. Shove your dilettante rules of argument up your ass.
An ideology is a premise and a conclusion in itself. A philosophy has room to grow and be argued for and against but a religion (especially in an orthodox sense) unquestioning adherence.
>>78727711
He is canonized among the Eastern and Oriental churches.
did anyone catch this debate?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYtTSNjky0c
black hebrew israelite elder rawchaa shayar vs reformed baptist james white.
it was amazing.
>>78728244
I loved that debate, actually.
Also this brings up something I was pondering a while ago.
WHY ON EARTH can we not get good debaters?
Take the Bill Nye debate for example.
Ken Ham couldn't refute the potato-tier arguments of a 13-year old fedora wearer.
We need a modern day Thomas Aquinas.
>>78727140
Yes but they were mostly sinners, not heretics like Francis.
I'll bump your thread if you bump mine brothers. We need some morale to counter the concern trolls.
>>78724155
>>78724155
>>78724155
>>78721663
Jews still refer to Jesus as the son of a mother's whore, and they ask us to stop blaming them for doing exactly what they did? Fuck jews
>>78728836
That she-pope wasn't an heretic?
>>78729410
You mean the one that didn't exist?
>>78729410
ugh, I forgot about her.
I wouldn't describe her as a heretic more so dumber than a second coat of paint; "they know not what they do" is rather fitting.
Francis does, however.
You Christ-cucks better keep this shit in your containment threads. You are welcome to your beta religion, but I don't want to see this "love thy enemy" bullshit leak out into the general population.
>>78729823
calm your tits, there's clauses for massacring the threat too.
>>78729823
Don't you have a train to detonate yourself in, Muhammad?
>>78729823
>he doesn't know about the Russian Orthodoxy
>>78729823
>t ahmed
We don't want your globalist religion ahmed. Fuck off.
>>78729410
>>78729652
She's a myth.
God here
I would just like to clear a few things up, first "creation"
for a start even that words is problematic as it implies a separation between creation and creator, in Truth they are One,
a better "creation" story would be to refer to God as "the self"
In the beginning was the God, and only God, there was nothing outside of God
God decided that to play a game, you know this because Joy, bliss and love are most congruent with Games, the structure of the game he decided to play is most simple, it is hide and seek, god hides from himself and he seeks himself
none can hide as perfectly as god, but none can seek as perfectly as god either
this hide and seek is the same as good and evil, yin and yang, true and false, matter and energy, faith and reason, they are all games
From this the game produces players, winners and losers winners and losers are both god in disguise, those who go to hell and those who go to heaven are both god in disguise, hell is heaven in disguise and heaven is hell in disguise.
this is what Jesus means when he says the first shall be last and the last shall be first
In order to become fully involved and committed to the game one final piece is needed, his omniscience prevents him from experiencing the game as "real" because he already knows what will happen, who will win, so in order to play the game he makes himself forget that he is God, this way he becomes truly committed to his "roles" in the game, he experiences them as real, he identifies with them, he has fear and anxiety, what if [X] wins wouldn't that be terrible, because he has forgotten that he is [X]
there is no difference between the player and the game,
You are the player
You are God
that is why the name of God is "I AM", it is hidden in plain site, yet you do not perceive
>>78730016
This makes me very happy.
>>78730044
You again. Go away
>>78730191
you're a myth and a bad player
>>78729652
>Francis does, however.
I don't see Francis as an heretic. He's trying to adapt the church to the current year ideals. He really wants to revive the faith in the West. Wrong way in my opinion.
I mean, he's really a nice person, maybe too much. I see him as a deluded idealist, but not as an heretic.
Who wants to fuck Christchan?
>>78730083
Then this should make you jump for joy
>>78731126
Oh my god it does.
>>78731245
O Lord our God, God of Power and Might, powerful in strength, strong in
battle, You once gave miraculous strength to Your child David granting
him victory over his opponent the blasphemer Goliath. Mercifully
accept our humble prayer. Send Your heavenly blessing upon these weapons
(..naming each weapon..). Give to them power and strength that they may
protect Your holy Church, the poor and the widows, and Your holy
inheritance on earth, and make them horrible and terrible to any enemy army,
and grant victory to Your people for your glory, for You are our
strength and protection and unto You do we send up praise and glory, to the
Father, and the Son and the Holy Spirit, now and ever, and to the ages
of ages. Amen.
Post more chris-chan.
>>78732075
is that their prayer as they do it?
>>78721663
Semitism: Residents of Arabic Peninsula
And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
“The Deliverer will come from Zion,
He will remove godlessness from Jacob.
27And this is My covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”f
28Regarding the gospel, they are enemies on your account; but regarding election, they are loved on account of the patriarchs. 29For God’s gifts and His call are irrevocable.
>>78732298
Yeah
>>78732298
I'm fairly certain, yes.
After that they bless the soldiers with holy water so their hearts are stronger than their enemies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwHLxwR9Joo
>>78732735
>>78732661
I wish I was Russian.
>>78732240
This, you can never have enough christ-chan
What should I look for in a church?
Any non-obvious red-flags to look for?
I was going to a presbyterian church in MN but recently moved to the south
TFW haven't been to church in months. TFW can't go alone. TFW the friend who used to go with me lives in another state. I didn't really like the Lutherans that much, but it was nice to go to church with a friend.
>>78721663
Jews are Satanic.
>>78733525
Make friends at church, silly. Your brothers in Christ make the best friends!
>>78732864
It's an Orthodox thing in general.
you have to pay to see christ-chan comics now
bad feel man
>>78733424
Subtle things:
1. The condition of the church.
If it looks run down, shoddy, cracked windows, etc. the people inside are not very serious about the gospel (think of addicts that are using the "better safe than sorry" and "I can shoot up as long as I repent every time I do").
2. Be wary of postings on cork boards. If you see "feminist empowerment meeting" or "gay youth day" you need to run. These are the kind of people that change and skew the bible often like a fat man changes toilet paper rolls.
3. Don't focus too much on finding a church, as a decent church with minor flaws is better than none at all.
>>78730950
Would marry and create an army of future Christian warriors with 10/10
>>78722195
KEY SIMILARITY IS YELLING
>>78734249
MISSIONARY POSITION FOR PROCREATION AND SNUGGLES ONLY
Hey, Christians I have two questions:
Which is your favorite book in the Torah? I like Genesis. Please answer in the format: "The Torah is in my holy book, and my favorite part of it is -------"
And, when was the last time you prayed to YHWH?
>>78734073
There are so many Baptist churches around here. I've had nothing but bad experiences with Baptist churches. A lot of mormon churches too.
There are a couple of reasonable looking ones though: one lutheran (which is probably what I'll be going to) and a "methodist" church
I have no idea what the fuck "methodism"(?) is all about so I'll probably just play it safe
>>78724607
It wasn't his death. It was going to his death sinless and obedient to God.
>>78734344
Implied, but okay.
>>78721663
bump
>>78723209
What can I say to refute when atheists say "where is there proof that god exists"? My current response is to assert that empiricism doenst prove anything If I can doubt my eyes (descartes) and such I can reason God's existence but I feel thats not satisfying enough answer.
>>78734983
There is supposed to be an aspect of faith to Christianity. Just tell them to keep an open mind and to be aware of God trying to communicate with them
>>78734709
I had a hard time finding a church as well here in St. Louis. But, I managed to find a Missouri Synod Lutheran church not that far away, filled with people who were quite warm, were doing mission trips, and the preacher was pretty good.
>>78725075
http://torahofmessiah.org/what-is-the-mark-of-the-beast/
An interesting candidate would be willfully breaking Torah. The Mark of God on the right hand and forehead is talked about in Exodus as being Torah observance. So the Mark of the Beast may be the opposite. Also, interesting that Jesus said that there would be followers of his who thought they were doing good works, but he rejected them and called them lawbreakers or workers of lawlessness. Interesting choice of word. We can stretch it to mean what we want, but perhaps it actually meant Torah.
>>78734983
There are a few sections in this picture dedicated to that argument:
>>78723209
>>78726171
It's a good thing. The bible teaches about a God who interacts with creation and responds to us.
>>78735167
I know that but they balk at the concept of faith. They can only see facts and figures.
>>78735385
Ill reread it then.
>tfw your church is a majority of immigrants and there are barely any white people
>fucking immigrant parents don't know how to tell their kids to shut the fuck up during mass
>>78735886
They're already placing faith that there is no god. There are no facts that also disprove it, outside of childish memeing
>>78735886
>They can only see facts and figures.
They are acting like machines rather than human beings, you should get them past this mode of thinking before trying to get them to accept Jesus
>>78734983
Basically what it comes down to is they think it's a one way street.
It goes both ways.
Tell them "where's the proof god doesn't exist?"
They will either say:
>extreme proof requires extreme evidence
These retards can't understand that they have to have extreme proof to DISPROVE god's existence.
They can't even prove the world isn't an illusion without "faith" that it isn't.
>I will use sensory data to prove the material world exists
Your hands, nose, sight, and brain are MATERIAL.
>I think therefore I am
You proved the conscious exists, not the body.
>well I have "faith" the world exists
BINGO.
I do too, and I also have "faith" in God.
>They use ad hominem
They're out of arguments and you should just leave them be.
>religion makes people commit crimes
Then Atheist crimes are personal choice.
It just keeps going from there.
They're pseudo-intellectuals that have narciccistic superiority complex.
Any godly Presbyterians still alive 'round here?
>>78736495
Here! No presbyterian churches anywhere near me though :(
>>78736383
>They can't even prove the world isn't an illusion without "faith" that it isn't.
thats actually good. I think thats basically what I was trying to get at with doubting my sense impressions but I think you said it better.
>>78725075
>What do you think the mark of the beast will be?
The worship of the anti-Christ and/or Pisslam.
666 talents of gold was the tribute of Solomon who sat on God's throne.
So, I think the anti-Christ will basically will receive worship from people who believe that it's God. I believe it will happen inside the temple, which makes the Jerusalem/Judea parts of revelation make more sense.
Matthew 23:39
For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
This possibly could mean that Muslims will take over Israel, and force their filthy religion on people, and the people who refuse to worship the anti-Christ will get killed, and anyone there should run to the mountains.
Read Matthew 24.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
As you know God is very jealous and intense, the evil one standing in the temple of God to be worshiped could very well cause the great tribulation earthquake.
I really want to practice my Atheist arguing skills by understanding the other side of the situation. Can someone argue why religion is real with me while I play the devil's advocate and try to refute religion?
>>78736880
>why religion is real
Because it exists.
Do you even know what religion is? Go and find out, then come back.
>>78736618
Ever since the Presbyterian Church of Canada amalgamated (mostly) to the United Church, its hard to find them up here as well.
However the one I was baptised in still runs, and I sometimes frequent in when I'm in the city.
>>78736711
Make sure the person you're arguing with is open to changing their mind when you point out these things.
If they act like this kid you would have better luck arguing with a street lamp.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ViOAUNuq58
>>78736880
>I really want to practice my Atheist arguing skills
Go outside once in a while
Would you christian mate with an arab/iranian christian if she was into you and a devout christian?
>>78737095
Depends on the denomination, not very likely though because the family would probably disown her.
>>78737095
yea
>tfw half iranian catholic.
>>78737095
Of course, religion is far more important than race. The bible makes that pretty clear
>>78736972
How can you say religion exists when there's no physical physical proof of it existing as per the miracles that happen in the Bible? Let's say that since there are a whole plethora of religions, how can one claim that one religion is the right religion? Could one's upbring in religion be dependant on their own upbringing by their living conditions (ie. being Muslim in Iraq, Christian in America, etc.)?
>>78736880
take a psychedelic if you want to experience the divine
the difference between a psychedelic and any religious practice (like meditation, yoga or prayer) is that psychedelics guarantee a religious experience
>>78736815
>Islam = Satan
>All these leftists putting Islam before gays, raping women, murder.
Could this be worship of Satan in the form of Islam?
>>78737231
what if you are both catholic? And not that novus ordo shit but tradcath
>>78737238
father or mother iranian?
>>78736983
>United Church
They are the faggiest protestants around
>>78737411
>being led into prelest
>opening the gatway for demonic attacks
>>78737095
Our denominations likely would differ, but as long as we're committed to Christ, we'll be pumping out as many Christians as possible.
>>78737353
>a fucking leaf
>all these standard "14 year old discovers atheism" tier arguments
Please stop, just let us worship in peace desu
>>78737545
this, your body is a temple, keep it pure
>>78737411
No, they really don't. All they do for me is make me want to die.
>>78737672
Hey, I'm just trying to learn how to argue against an Atheist by trying to put myself in their shoes and try to see their reasoning so that I can find out how to argue against them better
>>78737353
I'm slightly confused, do you mean what proof is there religion exists in and of itself or what proof there is that the events in the bible actually happened?
Because asking me to prove religion exists is like asking people to prove that water exists, it's pretty obvious.
Are Buddhists, Sikhs and Hindus our friends in the fight against Radical Islam?
>>78737783
if you want a true experience of the divine go to an apostolic church and watch as the priest consecrates the Eucharist and you get to have the host, aka the blood and body of christ himself
>>78737816
>arguing with atheists
>>78737816
first, get off fourchan and read about modal philosophy, thomas aquanis and other theologians
>>78734659
If by 'Torah' you mean the first five books of the Old Testament, then my favorite is Exodus. My favorite part is when God parts the sea, leading his people to freedom.
If by "YHWH" you mean the God of Israel who sent his only son for our salvation, then I pray to him almost every night. I also ask the saints in heaven to pray for me as well.
>>78737912
>are godless heathens our friends
no lol. They are our neighbors, so we must love them and try to show them the light but always be aware that they are not your brothers in christ
>>78737816
The majority of atheistic arguments are hypocritical in nature, usually they try to shift the burden of proof by saying "I don't have to prove anything and you have to prove everything".
>>78737912
Sikhs and Hindus probably, but probably only Burmese Buddhists.
>>78725993
Tfw orthodox
Stay mad
>>78737879
A bit of both actually. I know water exists because I can physically acknowledge its presence because I can experience water whenever it rains, go to a lake, river, ocean, turn on the tap, etc.
Religion however is based upon a supernatural presence. God is legitimate because you would put faith in the fact that the miracles, divine interventions, etc. that isn't present today. Jesus turned water into wine among other miracles such as resurrection, Mary had an immaculate conception, God had verbal discussion with us, all of which is not present in today's society.
>>78738207
nice rosary got any more pics?
>>78737432
Which is exactly why my family remained Presbyterian.
>>78737545
>>78737783
>opening the gatway for demonic attacks
God is my armour, I have already passed through the gateless gate
>they really don't. All they do for me is make me want to die.
>talking about me
where is this part of you that desires death, could you bring it out and show it to another person?
again try meditation, buddhism handles desires better than Christianity
God is stuck in Samsara along with all the other beings including humans
>>78737353
>How can you say religion exists when there's no physical physical proof of it existing
Religion is what you do when you believe something. Many people believe something, so they do it according to their beliefs.
You should have started out asking about our faith, and not religion.
How do I into online bible study?
>>78738461
Is that huge book just a new testament with commentary?
>>78738378
>tfw you're about to firebomb isis and you know God is on your side
>>78737422
Sodomites are just pawns, they have to bow down to the mark of the beast (the filthy religion).
If sodomites were placed higher than pisslam, governments would ban pisslam, and thus it wouldn't be able to be forced on people.
>>78738556
Alright, it was bad semantics on my part, but the point I made in >>78738443 still remains, just substitue religion with faith. Furthermore, how would you assure that your specific faith is the one, correct faith when other faiths exist?
>>78738461
Nah just the one. It's just a simple cheapo one that some guy gave me when I was in line for confession, but I prefer simple things.
>>78738781
Sodomite here, God spoke to me, he says I'm a Queen, not a pawn
>>78738653
yeah ignatius study bible, its yuge but gives all commentary for everything
>>78738842
i see if really like rosaries and their power
How are you doing brothers and sisters in Christ?
>>78737429
father shia iranian, mother italian/german american catholic.
>>78738825
We know that God is real, because He revealed it to us supernaturally. We know it. The Holy Spirit, is the spirit of truth. God's Word is truth.
A person without spiritual insight cannot understand.
Like imagine trying to explain gravity to someone who refuses to believe that things which cannot be seen can exist. They'd call you stupid, and mock you.
And that's what happens with atheists. They cannot see, and so they cannot understand.
Does a deaf person go in to a night club and start mocking people for pretending to hear sounds? Does he go online and tell people that they are retarded and delusional? The deaf person without a frame of reference cannot understand, they can only trust what hearing people say, or not.
If you seek the truth, surely God will reveal Himself to you. If you don't seek the truth, how can you possibly find Him?
Either you are content in your position, and believe that you know everything, or enough, you are not inclined to look any further.
You can either look for truth, behind that greedy merchant with the huge nose, trying to divert your attention away from the door you should knock at.
Or you can go through life tipping your fedora and believing that other people are holding humans back from colonizing space and making sex robots, and whatever else you day dream about.
>>78738781
This.
The government has already made most people worship sodomy instead of the lord, switching to worship of islam would be counterproductive.
Also islam has standards which are hard to live up to, much easier to worship sodomy
>>78739144
reminds me of this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hidden_character_stone
>>78738559
i use this (if i understand what you mean by bible study:)
https://lumina.bible.org/bible/Matthew+1
constable's notes are pretty good
>>78739525
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kncz6vCOO9c
Lots of cool stuff in this video. I'm a new Christian still learning.
>>78738559
Bible Sword, Blue Letter Bible.
Tons of stuff here.
http://pastebin.com/xMQ9wAwW
>>78739129
>ignatius study bible
Sounds pretty neat, would you recommend it for protestants?
Matthew 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
God says that if you seek the truth, you will find it. Christians know the truth.
It's that simple.
>hurrr all religions are right
>there are thousands of gods how do you know yours is right?
>we all go to heaven
>i trust science
>but my favourite atheists said...
There's like 4 billion people in the world that don't believe in the God of the bible.
>>78739752
I'd recommend Chuck Missler and Dr Don Patton if you're actually interested in what the Bible actually says.
People with imaginary friends are stupid. Stop this. You are adults.
>>78739555
You're turning me on, wanna play adam and steve?
I got the fruit if you got the snake sugar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1TLkdX8zLk
>>78739129
I currently have the Concordia Self-Study Bible. How does it comapre?
>>78739917
>8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
Makes me wanna cry. Its really true. I used to believe in the worlds beliefs and now I'm totally convinced that I was wrong. I grew up in a atheist family and finally found Christ this year and got Baptized.
>>78739639
i have a hard time believing that the arc photo you posted is real and not a forgery
Do you guys consider the ESV to be a good translation. I've never really used anything else (besides the KJV of course, never really enjoyed reading it) but if there's something better I definitely want to look into it
>>78740086
never had that one, but this one is massive and explaines how to view certain passages and biblical interpretation methods and different philosophies compared to passages and verses, aslo talks about gospels and how they are all consistant even though athiests say they arent and the translations from old words in greek hebrew and latin to english and their proper meanings
>>78739752
yes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXtPMoknCPY
>>78734720
OK so the quicker he died the less opportunity he had to fuck it up, and the real reason Christians are butthurt is that the Jews didn't ask the Romans to crucify him soon enough? Am I understanding you correctly?
>>78740137
Go investigate it? I'm no expert. I just know now that God is not a liar and the Bible is really true.
>>78739979
Thanks, brother, will definitely check them out.
>>78739982
This is exactly how I see atheists desu, like children with their fingers in their ears and their eyes closed. You will see evidence of the Lord everywhere if you are open to seeing it
>set alarm for 9:20 am for 10:30 service
>question if it was worth it till 9:30
>have coffee and oats ready by 9:50
>eat until 10:05
>gotta shower, I smell like last night
>10:27
>I can't walk three blocks to church in 3 minutes
Ehh
I doubt I'll miss too much, priests are SJW as fuck these days and I'm essentially only going for the homily. I simply want to see what my local priest personaly believes.
I'm still a believer, surely I can learn a little at home on a Sunday. Any suggestions? Say YouTube videos (easier than articles/books). Looking for something philosophy heavy, just a sprinkle of mysticism, but rationality is a plus. I'm that guy who believes there's actually a somewhat logic behind monotheistic belief.
>>78725075
Honestly, fashion. The "cult of ugliness" kind.
It'll be the tendency to promote sins and chastise virtues. This is already obvious with unnaturally dyed bowl cut fat hambeasts who are quick to yell "virgin" at their male detractors and just as quick to tell their friends there's nothing immoral about reckless, cheap sex.
They even fulfil the prophecy of those that argue they're virtuous, argue they're preaching righteousness and sometimes believe it themselves, but are clearly not. They'll even go so far as to argue all of religion is immoral through a guilt by association fallacy of something the church did hundreds of years ago in retaliation or revenge.
>>78740378
Sounds more indepth, as mine mostly highlights things that were translated a little weirdly and puts in an explanation, or provides cultural context to a passage.
I have a serious question. Is there actual Christians who browse 4chan?
My sister is involved with a lot of church activity I swear to god most of them have clothing with internet memes such as, "COOL STORY BRO" as a sweatshirt or some shit. It's fucking lame but I want to know.
>>78740144
It deletes a lot of verses because they prefer the Alexandrian text and don't even leave it in the footnotes for you to read it.
That really bothers me and when I checked its translations vs a concordance its really bad. Plus most people who know Hebrew and Greek recommend the KJV for its accuracy and the fact most errors are well known and easy to spot but few in number.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrI1f-qAM6g
>>78740467
You'd probably enjoy these books as well. Learn the Bible in 24 Hours, God Has Spoken, Genesis Flood 50th edition, Genetic Entropy.
>>78725075
>Hey guys.
>What do you think the mark of the beast will be?
You are God, so whatever you want it to be
>>78740645
I'm not the greatest Christian, but I'd still call myself one. I'm also constantly too normie on some things and too much of an autist in others, so I'm stuck in a very odd limbo.
>>78740645
what would you consider an actual christian? I do believe that christ has risen and the host is the actual blood and body of christ
>>78740144
NET (New English Translation) is my go-to.
>>78740645
We are here.
>>78740645
Yes... I am. I truly believe the Bible and in Jesus Christ.
>>78740144
Despite being Catholic, the ESV is actually my favorite translation. Accurate, modern language, good flow. I also really like the phone app.
>>78740846
I've never read that one.
>>78741026
I'd suggest Blue Letter Bible, has the ESV and gives you access to the concordance and much more.
>>78740663
>It deletes a lot of verses because they prefer the Alexandrian text and don't even leave it in the footnotes for you to read it.
Oh, I wasn't aware of that, is there a version besides the KJV you'd recommend? I feel like working the archaic text distracts me from the message and I just generally don't enjoy reading it.
>>78740846
Never head of this version, will check it out
>>78741026
Yeah, it's just really pleasant to read. It was the first translation that got me reading the bible more often.
>>78740765
I have a copy of Learn the Bible in 24 Hours on my shelf that I have never read. It seems like an interesting read though so I'll read through a few chapters tonight and see if I like it. Thanks for the suggestions
>>78725993
It's a ceremony remembering when jesus cleaned the feet of the apostols to show them that he came to earth not to be serverd but to serve humanity
>>78740645
Yeah
Internet is all about extremes. For every three people who think the internet is posting vanity on Facebook and deciphering Ebonics on Twitter, there is one person who scours YouTube for informational videos and Google's things, but eventually gives up with Wikipedia.
The internet has created a lot of idiots, but still a sizable minority of intellectuals. Likewise with faith, a majority of atheists who lurk r/eddit, but also a minority who've researched a whole lot of theology and have found whatever truth appeals to them.
>>78740824
I'm curious, what does Christ has risen mean to you? Is there a man out there that is the reincarnation of Jesus? Or did Jesus rematerialise on earth in adult form and is walking around?
Personally I view Christ as risen meaning we live in a Christian cultured society. The values, virtues, ideas and identity of Christ can be seen in part on every westerner.
>>78741026
I'm partial to ESV too.
Remember, the bible was translated from Hebrew/Aramaic -> koine Greek -> old Latin -> ecclesiastic Latin -> German or middle English -> modern English
Just as errors naturally creep in with oral traditions, naturally necessitating a written scripture, every translation introduces some errors.
>>78741581
Most people ask, why the non believers seeking to take advantage of the literal kingdom of heaven? Economic migrants gain their idea of the west from soap operas and then abuse every system to their benefit.
>>78741523
Well I got a NIV and its acceptable and doesn't totally slaughter the greek and hebrew. Sometimes its better than the KJV in conveying the greek and hebrew.
The NLT and the ESV when I checked it against the greek and hebrew were pretty horrible in a lot of places.
When you get more comfortable with your Bible reading and got a foothold in what it actually says though I'd honestly learn the middle english. It is very pretty and it conveys the meanings very well. Modern english isn't nearly as precise as middle english but thats true of all modern forms of languages.
I think if you're gonna go that route just pray a lot when something doesn't make sense. God isn't the master of confusion. He'll set you straight. He always sets me straight.
What do you guys think of The Geneva Bible?
It was the one that came before the King James Version.
One of the differences between King James and the Geneva version is that there is a verse in the Geneva one that says The Pope will be the antichrist.
How can anyone believe in god without burden of proof?
Brainwashing?
>>78742003
Its quite good if you're able to read it.
>>78742083
Faith and hope, nlthing to be ashamed of!
>>78742083
Because how can anyone not believe in god without burden of proof?
>>78742226
Why would you have faith and hope in something that most likely isn't real?
sounds sad.
>>78742083
please continue to ignore reading:
>>78723209
>>78742083
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gr8Az3QQZdI
I'm certain God exists and is the God of the Bible. There is plenty of evidence to suggest this but the world constantly warps data to its liking so that they don't have to acknowledge God.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxMkMBXAVZ8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-XqAHZiDRo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZsZLDWWZMs
>>78742314
I'm not atheist, I'm agnostic.
The amount of assumptions you people make when someone questions god is astounding.
>>78742480
That is all evidence with which you can use to postulate a hypothesis that god exists.
None of that is fact.
>>78725075
>beast
I've heard it explained that the beast was Emperor Nero, and the mark was the roman coin with his face on it. That essentially the book of revelation was a prophecy about the reign of Nero and subsequent destruction of Jerusalem.
>>78741970
>Remember, the bible was translated from Hebrew/Aramaic -> koine Greek -> old Latin -> ecclesiastic Latin -> German or middle English -> modern English
Weren't different parts of it written in different languages originally too?
>>78741994
>When you get more comfortable with your Bible reading and got a foothold in what it actually says though I'd honestly learn the middle english. It is very pretty and it conveys the meanings very well. Modern english isn't nearly as precise as middle english but thats true of all modern forms of languages.
Yeah, one day I'll learn to get through the middle english without thinking about it, and I usually look up things that don't make complete sense or check the NIV and the KJV
>I think if you're gonna go that route just pray a lot when something doesn't make sense. God isn't the master of confusion. He'll set you straight. He always sets me straight.
:)
>>78742507
If you're honestly interested read a book called God Has Spoken.
>>78742628
I have read it, it was mostly nonsense that i didn't bother to remember.
>>78742299
Well, we have faith that someone looks after us, that our good actions and suffering are not in vain.
We have faith that those who cause suffering and are not judged in life, will be judged by god and thos who suffered will be recompensed.
Se have faith in a god that is like a father to us, forgiving, protective, loving.
It just feels like a void inside us is filled.
>>78742833
I'm sorry that your life needs that to feel validated or any sense of fulfillment.
I also feel sorry for anyone that honestly believes i need to feel validated to have a good life.
>>78742579
There are some Hebrew manuscripts popping up recently that were in treasuries in Israel and in Russia that might predate the Greek manuscripts for the NT. On a separate note there are manuscript fragments that were found near the Dead Sea Scrolls but the cave collapsed for some reason. Maybe God doesn't want the rest found just yet. I don't know.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAp6KUwEBZs
This video mentions them.
>>78741970
>I'm curious, what does Christ has risen mean to you
that he was crucified, died and resurrected from the grave and ascended into heaven later
>>78721663
Not gonna happen, stay mad kikes. We can't even meet together after 50 years of planning to discuss basically nothing, we sure as hell aren't going to all agree on appeasing the fucking Jews.
>>78742747
Alright. Lets try a different approach. Buy a book called Learn The Bible in 24 Hours. Download or buy a bible. Work your way through it.
You sound a lot like me. I needed a lot to be convinced.
>>78742579
Yeah it's a clusterfuck.
I'm a little tired from waking up relatively early, my point that I forgot is that the exact wording is meaningless, the meaning formed in your mind is where the bible gets its power.
This is what separates us from Islam and prevents cultural hegemony.
>>78742747
To be honest, theology is rife with nonsense. There are people that literally think the earth is under 8000 years old (genesis), that it's flat (joshua), that the whole universe revolves around the earth.
I say this often, science should lead theology and only then will we have a religion not so easily blown out by common atheists that it's farcical.
>>78743029
Oh, okay, that's fine.
I thought you mean he has already come again, as per the prophecy.
>>78743193
No thanks.
I need facts, not "faith" which is "brainwashing"
I have "hope" life means something not "faith" that it does and i believe in mankind ability to learn about the world, they astound and convince me everyday.
>>78742995
>posts on a christian thread
>asks why everyone is brainwashed but me
>I DON'T NEED VALIDATION
okay friend
>>78743279
>I say this often, science should lead theology and only then will we have a religion not so easily blown out by common atheists that it's farcical.
Couldn't agree with you more.
>>78743335
http://pastebin.com/xMQ9wAwW
Its up to you. There is a lot here to get started with.
>>78743339
I probably should not have opened with that bias, but burden of proof is important regardless.
>>78742995
>>78743335
you won't read
>>78723209
in it's entirety because you refuse to accept differing viewpoints. I can smell the e-vape from here, anon
>>78723209
>Pilpul: the infographic
>>78743447
You don't understand.
I've been down that path, i am agnostic now. There was nothing there that told me god existed, it is a cop out for people who need to feel validated instead of earning the validation for themselves.
>>78743620
When is the last time you prayed and ask God for help to understand?
>>78743579
>assumptions
again, you people are self defeating, I'm agnostic, you earn the scorn and spurn you receive from the general populace because in my experience Christians are the most elitist and close minded group alive.
It's not differing viewpoints, it's burden of proof and what i need to have a good life compared to what you believe you need.
>>78743734
Probably the last time i did
(nothing happened, Santa Clause gave me a ps2 that year though)
>>78743335
Either you want to convert or not. Faith just means letting go and give up power, doesn't have to be brainwashing. When you drive your car you unknowingly have faith that the other cars don't ram into you. Doesn't make a difference to me, I'll be swimming in angel pussy when I go to heaven. Also church is awesome, you have a strong sense of belonging and friends.
>>78743335
>I need facts
you already have enough facts, we have a religion that was spread by honest simple men who valued honesty and simplicity about events they witnessed against enemies, both roman and jewish, who could easily have ended their efforts by showing how what they were saying was untrue, and yet this religion thrived and these simple men even went to their graves defending it. those are the facts. if you want to call these men liars then you have to prove it. good luck!
>>78742995
You're probably younger than 25 and/or haven't faced any real adversity yet.
Keep tippin' young blood.
>>78743801
Why don't you try to get closer to God? Do you not want God in your life?
>>78743862
Sounds sad, i don't need that to feel fulfillment.
Faith, unlike hope, is hoping something exists without logic, I'm good anon, best of luck to you on the path.
>>78743865
Facts are pretty important.
There are no facts that god exists anon. Not even zealots would actually agree with you there.
>>78721663
Fuck the ADL.
The Orthodox are the only remaining legitimate church.
>>78744012
>Sounds sad
Only sad one here is you.
>>78743875
I'm 27, deployed once and have beaten the odds with a single mother and graduating college with a bachelor of science with a degree in chemistry, so if you think i haven't faced adversity, you're wrong. Really that simple.
>>78743743
>I believe that extreme beliefs require extreme proof.
>I believe the material world isn't an illusion because I can prove it with my material senses I just have "faith" it exists.
>You better give me proof god exists
>No, I don't have to prove he doesn't
>>78743943
I don't mind if hes closer, I'm sure he is a very supportive imaginary friend.
Whether or not he is real is not the same argument.
>>78744173
I feel sorry for you if you judge people that way.
>>78744177
>single mother
I'm so sorry your mom was a whore.
>>78744179
No, it simply requires facts. (facts are not extreme)
Just like anything anon.
>>78744295
LMAO she kinda was man.
Love her to death though.
>>78743743
>>78743620
>>78743486
>>78743421
Mate I don't know what you're looking for, but there are many paths to faith. Some of them almost require you to be braindead stupid, some of them were essential for the intelligent to find meaning.
Research Spinoza, Aquinas (with understanding that a lot of his writing is the Catholic church, the omni God is bullshit), what Einstein believed (when he felt confident enough to talk about it) and lastly Boltzmann's mysticism.
Lots of intelligent people have rational, logical reasons to believe in God.
IMO this is the most important thing we can tell atheists, you are not a more intelligent person for disbelief, professing atheism is not signalling intelligence, in fact by being so ready to accept someone else's beliefs rather than form your own you're signalling ignorance.
>>78744072
Maybe, lots of believers feel they've received personal evidence for God's existence which only makes sense to them, as thus it's not something they can share.
Just like there's no evidence you're not a brain in a vat, but there are good arguments, there are also good arguments for God's existence.
>>78742557
Really now. This is just trolling at this point coming from you. You either want God in your life or you don't.
>>78723209
>everyone is an athetist, i just believe in one less god
but that's not the argument, you colossal faggot
even worse, the entire wall of text is still tantamount to arguing for deism
>>78744326
Okay, so why can't you also provide the facts as well? It really just sounds like you're doing nothing but trying to bait, and it's getting really annoying. You could try to read and digest what we have provided already, but you don't seem to care, nor do you really seem to care to make a case on your side, other than 'provide me the facts'
>>78744177
>single mother
It's all starting to make sense now. Will def say some extra our fathers for you.
>>78742995
You will once you grow up kid, mom's basdment is sure empty of responsability and worries!
But when you have to sustent yourself and find the world is not like "second life" or club penguin you it all changes
>>78737672
no, /pol/ was, is, and always shall be an anti-semitic board, so fuck off with your Jew-loving cuckoldry
>>78744382
I believe faith is a useless emotion, hope makes more sense, hope at least opens the doorway to logical thinking. Plenty of intelligent people are also agnostic.
It comes down to something very simple:
If there are no facts, there is no reason to believe it exists. I don't really understand how anyone can argue against that?
It's not ignorance, it's the willful acceptance of the importance of evidence and factual verification. Questioning god is maturity.
>>78744503
Needing facts is trolling?
>>78744527
What are you asking for anon?
>>78744530
lol
>>78744573
>mom's basement
Oh please.
>>78744256
How would you feel if all your family and friends said you weren't real? Would you like to spend time with them?
>>78744607
Jesus said that jews that do not follow him, worship satan and Muslims have killed more jews in the last 50 years than nazis have
>>78739480
>anything Jewish in origin
>truth
pick one and ONLY one
>>78744786
I'd be really confused how they could believe i wasn't real despite overwhelming fact i do exist.
Unlike me however, there are no facts that god exists.
>>78744607
>not laughing with you
>>78744890
Can you also provide the contrary if you're that obsessed witht 'the facts'?
>>78744664
You won't even watch videos, read books, and you just keep repeating yourself.
I honestly doubt you've look at anything I've said with a searching heart or at all. The only thing I can say now is you've rejected the Gospel and the roads to understanding it is true because you want an easy route that caters to your every need along the way. Life isn't like that. If you want to know something, you have to do some searching, praying and wading through a lot of confusion.
>>78744994
What are you asking for anon?
Absence of evidence is a logical fallacy, read the sticky while you're at it too anon, thanks.
>>78744819
he was a Jew, you slimy heeb wannabe. it's funny how you cucks deny the Jewish roots of your cuck religion by basically emulating the Jews in your arguments.
>>78721663
Catholic here, 20 years old met a 9/10 shy catholic girl the same age as me in my local church, saving herself for marriage, she's my gf now.
I love being Christian.
>>78745127
>assumptions
I've read your books and watched enough videos.
There are no facts to support your claim he exists. You have evidence to postulate a hypothesis (read: not facts).
You don't convince someone of the truth where there are no truths to be found even in terms of factual evidence anon.
You don't just tap your wand and go TADA! God exists!
>>78740438
No. He had a ministry to perform to preach the coming Kingdom and repentance. That's why he was always trying to keep a lid on things until it was time. He knew that once it got to a certain point, he was sure to be killed.
I think some of the hate has to do with early Christian Gentiles not wanting to observe Torah and so wanting to purge any trace of Jewishness out of their faith. I think there is a hostility to Torah and anyone who observes it. Perhaps that is the motivation for anti-semitism. However, I'm of the opinion that we probably should be following Torah. Otherwise, Christians don't have any real authority to condemn homosexuality, thievery, or drunkeness. Torah does not save. It merely defines sin. Salvation is only in Christ. However, we should sin no more. Since sin is missing the mark of God's commands...we should probably follow his commands and not sin. Those commands are Torah.
>>78745200
>le jesus was a jew meme
oh boy, here we go again
>>78744890
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8Zb5AhU0eI
This is my limit to what I can gift you. I will pray for you and I hope my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ will to and put aside all their grievances with you. None of us want you to die without Christ. The desperation we feel is because we love you.
>>78745318
cue pilpul in 3...2...1....
>>78745132
>Give me the facts God exists
>I refuse to give the facts that God does not exist
We already gave you a bunch of reading material and so on, and you refuse to care about it and spam 'gibsmedat facts' without bothering to give a reason why God does not exist. We're done, you only care for us constantly being on the defensive, while you just spam 'muh facts' and if you actually want to have a discussion, you'll start providing facts that god does not exist as well.
>>78744634
There are no facts and no reason not to believe you're a brain in a vat and that every sensation you're feeling is artificial. See where I'm going with this?
Of course it's mature to question faith but it's immature to believe only "evidence" and "factual verification" is necessary for belief. If you ignore decent, intellectual arguments, you're as anti intellectual as the flat earthers.
>>78745278
You've not said a single thing to indicate you've read anything out of those books. Are you just lying to trying to get rise out of us all?
>>78745401
Another youtube video!
Thanks buddy, take care.
>>78744890
>overwhelming fact i do exist.
the name of God is "I AM"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_death
If you are so sure you exist, take a psychedelic, I was convinced to try them by atheist Sam Harris
https://www.samharris.org/podcast/item/drugs-and-the-meaning-of-life
Then I saw the light
>>78745474
>Give facts god does not exist.
What is absence of evidence?
Read the sticky, logical fallacies are not allowed in debate.
>>78745474
>ben garrison-chan
>>78744994
What "facts" do you want? The facts you're looking for is scientific which our only answer is "God made it". The bible preaches more about morals and how we should live. God could care less about us figuring out the complex organisms that he created and focus more about family and the word of Christ.
Anyways... what are you guys think about pastor Steven Anderson? I've been listening to him while I play Tera and I like his personality. He seems like a really chill guy. Would love to go to his live sermons.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igwU6PXJVtM
>>78745483
>There are no facts and no reason not to believe you're a brain in a vat and that every sensation you're feeling is artificial. See where I'm going with this?
No, because you clearly don't understand how this works or what evidence or facts are.
>Of course it's mature to question faith but it's immature to believe only "evidence" and "factual verification" is necessary for belief
Yes, the law agrees and so does every logic system on earth.
>>78745318
>"Salvation is of the Jews" John 4:22
Nigger, if you want to sling Jewish philosophy on /pol/, at least bother to read the material first.
>>78745278
You won't find exactly what you are looking for. In order for God to give us real free will, He had to make things such a way so as it would be possible to choose not to believe in Him. If the universe functioned in such a way that You could not question God's existence, you would not have free will. It would be apparent who was in charge and you'd be stupid not to fall in line. However, He has made things in such a way that those who seek Him earnestly will find Him and see that evidence is clear. However, it also allows you to ignore the evidence and come to a different conclusion because that is what you want.
>>78745302
>I think there is a hostility to Torah and anyone who observes it.
I've experienced this as a new Christian who came to Christ recently. I'm gladly reading Leviticus and thanking God that the sacrifices are over and rejoicing in Jesus Christ knowing I'm a sinner being washed in his blood.
I seriously don't know why a lot of people who've been Christians a lot longer than me squirm at the OT. Its FILLED with prophecy concerning Christ and the end times and the coming kingdom. Why don't more Christians love God? Why do they have itchy ears? It makes me sad.
>>78745495
>reading the bible means you will believe no matter what.
Please don't talk, you literally make Christians look bad, they are not this stupid.
>>78745579
Those aren't facts buddy.
>>78745742
All I'm saying is Jesus was not a jew
>>78721663
English Orthodox Church when??
>tfw chrstian grandpa, he catholic, me protestant, visiting an awsesome church
>(In germany you get the religion of your mother, or parrents decide)
>we go inside, i never really visited churches, but i was always kind of chrstian.
>tfw big echo hall, awesome organ, statues, paintings, all gothic like, i almost cried, it was beautiful and i felt once again my connection to god.
>he says ' oh wow son, look at this little statues, they didn't got destroyed by the protestants! This were catholic saints!'
>me saying ' Oh yes, bad thing the protestants destroyed all these IDOLS that god actually have forbidden to pray to, but whatever, it's a great cultural treasure to have this statues here.'
>On the way back to our town, we stop at another old gothic church, grandpa getting upset about all these chopped of statues at the church
>'Isn't it a shame son? They destryoed all these beautiful paintings and statues, bad times'.
>It felt like he was provoking me
>mfw i told him, well i think protestant don't need gold and big statues, big and beautiful churches just to feel connected to god and have respect for our faith, i think they were mad because of the enslavement from the roman church, which coated it'self in gold and wealth, while they were selling paper to the poor man so that he could get into heaven'
>tfw grandpa just talked some year but yeah but but yes but 'muh art' but yes right but 'muh beautiful cultural heritage destroyed forever'
Oh man, can't teach those stupid catholics, am i right? haha
You guys might get a laugh out of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ulkFhAmE6M
>>78745781
I'm looking for facts, telling me i wont find any here?
Oh, what a surprise. I'm shocked and astounded.
>>78745708
i don't understand how his views fit together
>salvation is by faith alone
>you can't lose your salvation
>all faggots are going to burn in hell
surely there are some faggots that believe or people who weren't practicing sodomites in their youth who believed but then later became sodomites
>>78746030
You actually believe there is a place people go when they die?
Good or Bad?
You believe in an "After, life" a logical contradiction?
Why?
>>78745815
Don't put words in other peoples mouths. I never said that. You did.
>>78721663
BASED
I never knew they called jews what they really are. Good for them for still having balls.
>>78746169
It's your direct implication though.
I've read the bible, it didn't effect me whatsoever. It was 90% nonsense and mistranslations.
>>78746030
>surely there are some faggots that believe
lel, faggots only worship sodomy. True believers do not engage in sodomy
>>78745735
No, I think I understand much better than you and your projection of misunderstanding is a scared ad hominem that if you openly engaged me you might feel you're losing the argument.
Saying
>you clearly don't understand
Whilst dodging my point is absolutely an ad hominem. How about you check that fallacy chart yourself?
>so does every logic system on earth
Which you've only ever read about and for the most part have not personally experimented with.
Without the ability to make logical conclusions based on previous conclusions, you very necessarily become restricted to a very shallow empiricism. That sort of thinking leaves you open to the question that I will force you to address:
>how do you know you're not a brain in a vat?
Brother, I actually think you don't want to believer. If that's your will I assure you that you're wasting your time here.
>>78746245
>90%
Your anus must be wide to pull this monstrous shit out of it.
>>78746253
*rolls eyes*
>>78745483
Yeah. If you read some of the Psalms, they wax poetic about how much they love the Law and God's ways. It's not a burden. The burden were the oral Torah, Talmud, and traditions of the elders. Those were what Jesus was railing against. They had taken God's perfect law and added so much to it that it proved to be a heavy burden on the people.
But yeah, I agree. There is one Bible. Not 2 halves. All of it is important and from God. And it makes so much more sense when you look at it as a whole ratyer than the erroneous dispensationalism that says everything before Acts isn't for you and doesn't matter. I don't think God is so fickle to just get rid of everything leading up to Christ. He has a purpose and all of it is toward that purpose.
>>78746394
>ad hominem
wut?
I'm not dodging your points anon.
Where are the facts?
No fact? no argument.
>>78746245
Even if its written in English. Its a foreign language of symbols, models, prophecies and puns hidden in the Hebrew itself which are prophecies as well.
The Bible isn't something you can simply pick up and read and expect to understand.
>>78746394
Also,
>only ever read about
Oh you mean like your god?
That statement is woefully ignorant.
>>78746245
>I read the bible straight through once like a harry potter novel
>I know more than thousands of years of biblical scholars
Your fedora is showing
>>78746436
>But yeah, I agree. There is one Bible. Not 2 halves. All of it is important and from God. And it makes so much more sense when you look at it as a whole ratyer than the erroneous dispensationalism that says everything before Acts isn't for you and doesn't matter. I don't think God is so fickle to just get rid of everything leading up to Christ. He has a purpose and all of it is toward that purpose.
Amen.
>>78746520
Not important.
>>78746607
>assumptions
typical.
>>78746643
>understanding the Bible
>not important
Right. Go drink and be merry.
Anyone else have more Christ-chan?
Also, hope you all plan on going to Church tomorrow.
>>78745982
Well, if it were a matter of definitively proving God exists that gives you no place for legitimate rebuttal, then you aren't free to choose, right? If it were possible to prove in the manner you are asking, then you would be forced to believe or would be denying the obviously true. However, God has given you an out. If you truly don't want to take note of Him or believe in Him, it is possible to make the free choice to deny Him and not be forced to deny the obvious. If we could prove otherwise, God would be forcing you to believe.
>>78746816
I've never done drugs or booze in my life.
>>78746849
I had to call in sick sadly. Got a cough and don't want to give it to everyone. Me and my wife will just watch the service online.
>>78746859
Oh look, no facts.
Damn.
I was on the le-edge of my seat.
>>78746466
I have none yet because I'm relying on common sense scepticism, which necessitates we establish a common ground and a common starting point.
Bro, do you even philosophy? You're failing pretty hard. In your defense, it's early here and I'm progressively waking up, it's probably late there and you might be experiencing 3am doubt.
There's a reason Christians tell each other they meet Jesus at 3am.
>>78746436
Sophistry is not the path to belief for rational atheists, nor is appealing to their authoritarianism since so many of them deeply reject such.
>>78746587
Gold star, you got my implication but completely wrapped around the meaning.
Back to the brain in a vat, bro. That's the demon in this conversation, because eventually you'll realise that whilst it's obviously false, your actual real brain and thus your actual consciousness arose from natural laws and a natural progression of the universe. The logic that defines how it works became possible long before life on earth, or anywhere else for that matter, began.
Please, for the sake of the heavenly father, the mind of the universe's trinity, do not dodge this point.
>>78746849
Christ chan is a satanic influence, maldraw is essentially malicious drawer who frames true Christians as antisemites. I've already spoken to her about this, she needs to stop.
>>78747183
Instead of typing long-winded nonsense just provide facts to the existence of God and me and everyone like me will shut up forever.
>>78746932
1 Corinthians 15:32
If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.
It was a test. You really haven't read the Bible and if you did it wasn't understood.
>>78747411
>using the bible is any grounds for factual evidence.
That's not how this works anon.
>>78745302
What actually happened was that what became the catholic church stole their scriptures from the jews, and have always hated anyone that actually reads them for this reason.
Where are key doctrines like the trinity and sunday worship or any of the christian calendar for that matter mentioned in the bible, except to condemn?
The virgin birth crap is hilarious too. Not even a bad translation, exactly... parthenos *did* mean 'young woman' in colloquial greek at the time of translation, but holy crap how can you people continue to take seriously a religion which took one of its key tenants from a blatant misunderstanding of prophecy?
Ignore ID:lbp5gN9o for the future of the thread.
He does not see the irony in asking for facts when he presents no facts for the opposite side of the argument.
He does not care that narccistic superiority complex is unattractive.
He didn't come in here to read with an open mind.
He doesn't leave other people who share different viewpoints than him alone.
He uses Ad Hominem against other people and pretends to be confused as to why we respond with hostility.
He came in here because he thinks he's a genius.
He will reply to this post and your posts with drevel of "still waiting for facts" and ignore all of your links, references, texts, and arguments because God could flood the fucking earth right now and he would start droning on about climate change.
the worst part?
>He does it for free.
Reminder to keep the love and faith in this thread.
>>78747284
>that dodge
Okay.
It's obvious as fuck, you don't want to believe and anything I type for you is a waste of effort. Just shut the fuck up and stay out of these threads, atheists of course are very welcome since a real Christian loves their enemy, but you're not addressing arguments. You're not contributing to the conversation, you're destroying it.
>facts
Until you completely shift the goalposts of what a fact is. Of course I can't argue with your quasi post structuralism, it makes conversation impossible. Like set theory, any tool strong enough to redefine itself is necessarily too strong not to be false and not to be able to be used against itself.
Literally a nuclear bazooka, no matter how you fire it you'll get caught in the fallout.
>>78747675
No shit.
But most Christians have proven themselves extremely bad at debating him.
Thoughts on pic related? Note, it is not predicting the date of the Rapture or anything goofy like that.
>>78747675
>He does not see the irony in asking for facts when he presents no facts for the opposite side of the argument.
Absence of evidence fallacy.
>He does not care that narccistic superiority complex is unattractive.
wut
>He didn't come in here to read with an open mind.
Just facts, found none, i have nothing against what you believe, just asking for facts anon.
>He doesn't leave other people who share different viewpoints than him alone.
I'm only replying when spoken to bud.
>He uses Ad Hominem against other people and pretends to be confused as to why we respond with hostility.
Nope.
>He came in here because he thinks he's a genius.
Nope.
>He will reply to this post and your posts with drevel of "still waiting for facts" and ignore all of your links, references, texts, and arguments because God could flood the fucking earth right now and he would start droning on about climate change.
I know this is pretty RADICAL man, but facts are pretty important.
I really hope you're trolling.
>>78747891
Not a dodge, you're trying to change goal posts, i came here asking for facts, not opinions.
Facts are defined, i don't need to define it for you. Scientists are paid to do this, not me.
>>78745208
I am so jealous of you but at least I have a shot going to a right-wing Catholic school
I just wanted to come here to tell you that the Church in Benghazi is safe
the army made sure not to use explosives near it so they don't damage it and ISIS knew of this and tried to hide in it
thankfully they were starved into surrendering
idk thought some of you might care
Ever since I was a young boy around 10 - 16 I felt really uncomfortable in churches and in general with the prospects of Christianity. I ran away from churches and went so far as to escape on my own from youth groups that I wound up in sometimes.
In Highschool I secluded myself and began practicing LaVeyan Satanism even doing rituals every year for at least 3-4 years around the fall equinox.
In my 18-21 I was doing psychedelics and other drugs.
On one summer day I took an incredibly stupid amount of LSD and was told that today was the day of my death, however I had honestly been living a peaceful and generous life of my own devices and found myself given a second chance by God and another angel with him.
It was honestly a feeling I cannot compare to any feeling I had ever felt, in that moment I felt like a grand being of compassion.
I'm 22 now still hesitant to pick-up a bible but everyday I see God's work all around, in the way people speak to me about thing. (Recently I went out of my way to help a long time friend and he attempted suicide and the lesson I learned from all of that was controlling people is beyond me and I shouldn't attempt it anymore.
I'm afraid to submit again because I know that means that Armageddon is real and will arrive in my life time.
Any advice?
>>78748430
With all the hell that is going on there, this is good news, at the very least. Of course ISIS would hide there, but it was a good thing they were btfo.
>>78748430
I do care, the army was very respectful and i'm honored they were wary to not cause structural damage.
It's sort of like poetry,
Christians live and thrive in the church of God.
ISIS goes into the church and they starve to death.
Keep strong Libya anon, you will make it through this fight.
>>78748815
>>78748896
I found it Ironic that the Church they wanted to destroy so badly was the only thing keeping them alive
it's still too close to the fronts to be usable (I almost got arrested for coming too close they suspected I'm an ISIS agent)
>Keep strong Libya anon, you will make it through this fight.
Thanks, I hope so too
>>78748743
Do not be afraid of the Lord your God, for he is love. Remember, your story is similar to that of the young man who demanded his inheritence, blew it all, wound up destitute, but was received kindly by his father he rejected. God is that father, and you are his lost son who is finding his way again. Forgiveness will come, you just need to humble yourself. Attend service, speak with the clergy, seek forgiveness to God, and you will be received back into the company of Heaven.
>>78748896
I served in the Army, i know you're having a tsundere battle with me by trying to ignore me, but it makes me cringe when i see you guys talk about the Army like you understand what's going on in the middle east.
Either way, best of luck buddy. I know you think you're infallible.
