I am debating my friend on the existence of Jesus Christ, our lord and saviour. And whether or not God existed.
I have referred him to the Dead Sea Scrolls and The Annals Book XV Chapter 44 ; written by Tacitus
Please help me turn this agnostic into a believer.
>>78106001
Tip your fedora at him.
Time, matter, and space cannot be infinite.
But they exist, so whatever made them needs to exist outside those constraints.
If it did, it would be;
>Eternal, since it is not restricted by time.
>Immaterial, since it is not restricted by matter.
>Omnipresent, since it is not restricted by space.
If it is these three things, it would be omnipotent. Which is the definition of God.
/pol/ Serves KEK in this house
>>78106001
Have him read the Gospels. If he still denies despite being shown the perfect truths therein, he's consigned himself to hell and isn't your problem anymore.
>>78106001
Ungh. You cannot prove to a non-Christian that God exists or that Jesus is the savior through just giving them Bible quotes.
Use logic or some other methods of proof.
All you do when quoting the Bible is quote the Bible which is circular thinking.
>>78106001
>trying to prove the existence of Jesus without any physical evidence
wew lad
>>78106001
>Please help me turn this agnostic into a believer.
Give him a copy of the holy quran.
>>78108118
>You cannot prove to a non-Christian that God exists or that Jesus is the savior through just giving them Bible quotes.
Why not?
If they disregard it, ask them why, then knock down their irrational justification of the rejection.
>>78108149
There's really no physical evidence for anything historical.
Any scholar will tell you that history is just a "this probably happened"
>>78106001
>Read the Torah
The Jewish Writings prove Jesus was infact real.
>>78107719
Can you elaborate further? Why can time, matter, and space not be infinite? When did we learn this?
>>78106001
There is "near universal consensus" among biblical scholars that Jesus existed historically
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus
>>78106001
Evidence that Demands A Verdict by Josh McDowell, the Roman sentry argument. Had the sentry just messed around he would be executed that hour.
>>78106001
The prophecies in the Book of Isaiah.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_and_messianic_prophecy
>>78108474
Because if you say your book is the authority, then why isn't the Quran any more authoritative?
In fact, it has more authority since it claims it was directly written down from heaven.
>>78106001
>And whether or not God existed.
God is omnipresent;
>Psalms 90:4
4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night. [when...: or, when he hath passed them]
>2 Peter's 3:8
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
>Genesis 2:1-4
1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. [created...: Heb. created to make]
4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
IMO The most curious part of the Genesis story is the fact that The Bible never says that the seventh day has passed.
>>78108644
Because we cannot prove they came from nothing. The Big Bang happened (Which was founded by a Priest), but that's still something.
The TLDR; answer, is read the works of Thomas Aquinas regarding the nature of God, and Brane Cosmology regarding the state prior to the Big Bang.
>>78106001
The creed within Corinthians 1 counts as very early evidence for the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ:
>The earliest available Christian texts are the letters of the apostle Paul. Scholars date his epistles from approximately 50 to 60 C.E. Therefore, many individuals think that there is at least a twenty year gap between the death of Christ and the earliest Christian writings. However, most do not realize that the epistles of Paul contain creedal summaries of early Christian beliefs which possibly date as early as 35-40 C.E.1 The general nature of these creeds includes the death and resurrection of Christ.
https://carm.org/analysis-pre-pauline-creed-1-corinthians-151-11
>>78108824
Of course most historian agree that Jesus existed as a historical person, but that doesn't have anything to do with religion. That a prophet named Jesus lived, doesn't mean he performed miracles, God is real etc. By that logic Quran is also right, as most historian agree that Muhammad was also a historical person.
Religion is, and will always be pseudo-science. There is evidence neither for the existence of God or his non-existence, and will never be.
In my opinion then assuming this entity is real, is kinda flawed and only result of you being born on religious culture and country; Just like i'm agnostic atheist, because most people in nordics are.
I still respect your beliefs, dude, as mine are mine and only, and you should respect them too.
>>78110257
These are also neat:
On the very specific prophecy in Daniel:
http://www.reasons.org/articles/was-jesus-arrival-accurately-predicted-in-the-bible
On the Shroud of Turin:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rH8xQZPjSXE
On the "two powers" doctrine within early Christian history:
http://drmsh.com/the-naked-bible/two-powers-in-heaven/
Ancient extra-biblical sources for Jesus' existence:
http://paxexsistovos.blogspot.com/2012/01/tacitus-suetonius-pliny-younger.html
>>78109670
Originally Genesis was written in Hebrew where the word later translated to day is 'yom'
Which bears several meanings but perhaps the most important being an unspecified duration of time.
Meaning it could refer to a day, as we know it, or several thousand years.
This fact is something a vast majority of people tend to either overlook or ignore all together when debating the age of our earth.
>>78111288
>a religious swede
you must be an immigrant, go away we're full
>>78112207
My parents are from Russia so you are correct to a point, although I find not being a Swede an overwhelming comfort.
>>78112528
i can understand that
>>78110307
A religion is a set of beliefs by which we use to interpret our life and experiences.
>>78106001
Ask him if the word of God is God. Then he will say yes if he's a true Muslim, because it says so in the Koran. Then ask him is Jesus is the Messiah. He will say yes. Then ask him if the Messiah is the word of God. He too will be forced to say yes. Then you have him. Since the Messiah is the word of God, and the word of God is God, then it must be the case that Jesus Christ is God.
>>78113647
Woops. Thought you were trying to convert a Muslim. Converting an Agnostic will be much harder.
>>78107867
Kek=literal "WE WUZ KANGZ" worship
