>Frank-Walter Steinmeier urged the Nato military alliance to replace the exercises with more dialogue and co-operation with Russia.
>The exercise was a hipotetical Russian attack on Poland scenario
Germany is a member of NATO, their own soldiers took part in the exercise.
Could SPD be even more obvious?
>http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36566422
>>77688025
he is the only sane politician
That sounds fairly reasonable actually
>>77688453
would wish this was true.
He says populist bullshit in order to save face and keep the voting sheep close to his party like any other german politician
>dialogue and co-operation
this shit is not gonna make you buy more guns, or ramp up defence spending in general
>>77688025
I guess Poland it's up to you and me to house the US military toys since Germany is now a proven traitor of the west, natural gas is more important to them, fucking traitors
>>77688025
For once I agree with this.
>>77688025
Germany always can leave NATO and count on their mighty Wermacht.
>>77688025
He's right
NATO is pissing in Russia's salad and has been for years
Russia might not be a saint but I'll be damned If It isn't fucking NATO's fault West-Russia relations have gone to shit
>>77693640
>NATO's fault West-Russia relations have gone to shit
>Russia invade Ukraine
TOP LOGIC
>>77693577
>muh p-pls give us a anti russia missile shield merika
>muh our army is so strong
Poland pls
>>77693577
>Poland still thinks they can count on allies if they're under attack
Bobek pls, didn't you learn from history?
>>77693718
BE GERMANY
>THE ONLY ARMY ON THEIR SOIL IS USA ARMY.
>muh Germany
>>77693718
we already have an operational anti nuke site right here, have fun paying more for natural gas you traitorous faggots and God bless America
>>77693755
I did.
WAR WITH GERMANY - PROFIT
>>77693718
>missile shield
>anti-russian
kek, the vatnik parasite already ate your brain I see
>>77693710
Do you understand that the West sponsored the Ukrainian 'revolution' and that it was essentially a NATO coup?
>>77693820
And in 5 minutes your somewhere else crying about how evil Niemcy was in the WW2.
>>77693886
>PUTIN ADMITS THERE ARE RUSSIANS SOLIDERS ON UKRAINE SOIL
>MUH USA, MUH COUP
>>77688025
>Frank-Walter Steinmeier urged the Nato military alliance to replace the exercises with more dialogue
If we kill them they win, right?
>>77693816
>romania calling germans traitors
>threaten us with US nukes
>>77693779
>THE ONLY ARMY ON THEIR SOIL IS USA ARMY.
That's not true btw.
>>77688025
S P D
Socialist
Party
Deutschland
>>77693905
TO MAKE $$$, JUST LIKE ISRAEL. SHUT UP NAZI AND PAY FOR THAT 60000 BILION POLES! WHY DID YOU MURRDER 8000000 BILION POLES?
Germany now has new Syrian army. They don't need NATO anymore.
>>77688025
>germany invades poland
>now germany doesn't want poland to be prepared for Putin's invasion
Like pottery
>>77693886
was it also the NATO that annexed Crimea you fucking leaf?
>>77693945
There were Russian soldiers on Ukrainian soil before even the Euromaidan... you do know that right?
>>77694075
Annexing Crimea was a sensible response for the Kremlin, they would have lost their Black Sea naval base to the 'new Ukraine' (NATO) otherwise
>>77694075
Crimea had always been Russian btw
I thought countries between east of Germany and west of Russia would know by now that western Europeans are apathetic at best or pro Russian at worst with regards to their rivalry against Russia. I would say many dutch would not fight for ukranie and many germans will fight not for balts, your only bet is to stick to USA.
European brotherhood is a farce.
Dialogue and cooperation won't do anything to Russia, Russia only understands a military reaction.
Send more troops to the baltics, not a uselessly small force.
Give military aid to Ukraine.
>>77694088
That's because the Yanukovych guy and Putin were buds. I wouldn't be surprised if Russia also has soldiers in Belarus and nobody there would care.
>>77694190
Wrong. Until the 40s almost only Crimean Tatars lived in Crimea. Stalin then replaced them with ethnic Russians to create the "Crimea is Russian" meme.
>>77694190
so pommern, schlesien had always been Poland
>>77694075
But Obama himself has said USA has "sponsored democracy" in Ukraine with bilions of $. Thats shitload of money. Where do you think did those money go? How could they be spent?
>>77694342
A quick glance at demographic history of Crimea proves how wrong you are.
And who cares Tatars were raped? They were literally Muslim slavers in past and in WW2 they joined Nazis en mass. Good riddance.
>>77694452
Pommern and Schlesien is German clay, Piotr.
>>77693779
Poland if you do something stupid like piss off the sleeping bear, expect about as much help as you got during WW2
AKA get raped into a half german half russian cuck country
>>77693577
Retard poland will once again cause a world war only to be crushed in two weeks
>>77694506
Berlin is ancient slavic grod, its ours.
>>77694506
You are breaking apart your own narrative Abdul
>>77694506
Don't worry Ozkan, we took care of these lands
>>77694452
No proof that Serbia was ever that far west, Ragusa bordered Croatia during that time period. Your map is shit.
>>77694577
You can have Berlin for free. It's infested by leftists, kikes and sandniggers
>>77694562
>Macedonia
Go back to 5c b.c it was last time some1 heard abaout you int he world.
lel, this fucking government
just recently merkel said she believes people with political differences need to respect each other more even though she and her goons are responsible for the divide in the country because they call everyone else a nazi.
internationally, they do the same exact shit: throw threats and insults around then demand respect
>>77694577
It's full of Turks and Jews, please have it.
>>77694506
>>77694659
>It's infested by leftists, kikes and sandniggers
So it's full of germans then. No problem, we'll clean it up.
>>77694577
Well if we're going that far back, Pomerania and Silesia are German.
>>77694491
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Crimea#History
>The Crimean Tatars emerged as a Turkic-speaking ethnic group native to Crimea in the early modern period, during the lifetime of the Crimean Khanate, and by the annexation of the Crimean Khanate by the Russian Empire in 1783, they formed the clear majority of Crimean population.
>>77694644
hmm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vi%C5%A1eslav_of_Serbia
>>77694722
>Handing over its capital likes its nothing
You are so cucked i pity you.
>>77694749
>>77694737
>>77694600
>>77694620
Well meme'd everyone
>>77694771
>modern germans 2016
>goths
>>77694771
GO BACK FROM USA YOU PLEBIAN IMIGRANT, AMERICA FOR NATIVE AMERICANS!
>>77694562
Poles aren't that bad, neither is Poland.
Problem is they are petty bydlo with delusions of grandeur, who are encouraged by their globalist masters to serve as pawns in geopolitical fuckfest with Russia.
Some smarter among them know this but think "wez gunna be rigonal power", oblivious to the fact everything important there is owned by foreigners and that Polish population is declining while millions fucked off to West ASAP.
They think they are partners but they are literally pawns of West. Their delusion is further fueled by fringe "analysts" writing how Poland is next great power.
>>77694808
Most capitals and major cities in the West are like that, just look at London or Paris.
>>77694342
>Crimean Tartars
Crimea is Ukraine, lads.
>>77693820
>New josef Stalin loves poland more than russia
>>77694962
Why did your glorious leader take it away from them then? Was Sewastopol that important to risk a war and get sanctions?
>>77694773
And before them Slavs and Greeks lived there too. Crimea changed ethnic composition many times in past.
Russians are majority since 19th century.
And again, Abdul, no one but Western bleeding heart liberals cares Muslim slavers were rightfully annihilated.
They literally slaughtered and abducted millions into slavery. Fuck them, and piss on their graves.
>>77694931
>who are encouraged by their globalist masters to serve as pawns in geopolitical fuckfest with Russia
last time we conquered russia in f'kin 1612
since then, every time that Russia attacked us
>>77694781
>Wikipedia
He probably made two raids into the outmost area in reality.
>>77695076
Dont you fucking lie what about the war of 1920 which you started
>>77694689
Justice minister Heiko Maas wrote an article for ZEIT newspaper where he said we need to de-radicalize and start to talk to each other.
Then halfway through the article he drops a line that says, of course we cant talk to AfD and PEGIDA because they're all nazis.
These people are just cannon fodder for mass executions at this point, you cant reason with insane.
>>77695076
There's no point in talking with zombies like him - they always find some detail that proves how Russia was "provoked". Actually they are so brainwashed that they consider establishing DEFENSIVE measures in your country somehow threatens Russia, despite the fact that they have nukes pointed 24/7 at every major western country capital.
>>77688025
Anakonda was not a NATO exercise stupid fuck.
>>77694249
They were there under yanukowitsch, they were there under timoshenko, they were there under juschenko...
spotting a pattern?
>>77688453
STEALTH RARE
>>77695202
>1920
>started war
YOU FUCKING NIGGER! WAR WAS LONG TIME STARTED BY THEN. LEARN HISTORY!
PLESE, IGNORANT MERICANS, DONT POST IN EUROPEAN THREATS WHERE YOU NEED A LITTLE HISTORY.
>>77695076
There was invasion in 1920 but that doesn't matter.
I'm not saying Poles should become a part of Russia.
I'm saying you're (partly righteously) butthurt and you're making decisions out of butthurt, serving as pawns to a far greater globalist neoliberal evil simply to spite Russians.
It's like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Look at what West is looking like right now. Do you want that in your country? Do you think that direction is sustainable? No, it's fucking decadence that will lead to their collapse.
Sure, you want material wealth, but do you want the rest that follows it?
Now add 2 and 2.
I'm not saying leave NATO, leave EU, I'm saying you should be a lot lot less enthusiastic about being a fucking pawn in a geopolitical game of giants.
And if your own masters win, you're fucked.
Without Russia, there's no real counter-balance to Western domination.
>>77695455
>Without Russia, there's no real counter-balance to Western domination.
What about china and the saudis?
>>77695294
thats the most embarrassing shit ever. how can people still take politicians seriously after they openly say theyre not going to talk to AfD? if they truly believe the AfD is completely full of shit then why dont they give them a podium so they can expose themselves?
>>77695346
>establishing DEFENSIVE measures in your country somehow threatens Russia
What is nuclear deterrent. I suggest you get acquainted with basic concepts before talking about geopolitics.
There are no DEFENSIVE measures in nuclear equation. Every measure is offensive.
>despite the fact that they have nukes pointed 24/7 at every major western country capital
And 24/7 every Russian city is targeted by Western nukes.
That's how nukes work you fucking idiot.
>>77695438
No you fucking idiot, it isn't.
Réunion is stealth rare of France for example.
>>77694771
>Lugii
>>77694875
>modern poles 2016
>poles from 1000
>>77695550
China would be isolated and irrelevant.
Saudis? What fucking Saudis, they were literally put in power by West.
As time goes, and especially in this scenario, they will become a burden.
After Russia, next comes Iran.
After them, China.
Dude, people went apeshit over guys like Dugin, but go Google ''Wolfowitz doctrine'' and tell me exactly how is that shit any different, except it's not really philosophical and is sugar-coated better.
Dammit, I really wanted LewLew to fuck that one up.
>>77695076
You mean 1610.
>>77695202
You're fucking retarded.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_westward_offensive_of_1918–19
>>77695731
shit, wrong board
>>77695613
Retard.
>>77695346
Its really no wonder that you are the playing ball of every medium to bigger power, seing how oblivious you are about geostrategies.
there are nuclear defensive weapons.
>>77695773
Why do you need a swedish proxy suddenly polak?
>>77695067
>Why
i was not serious. The fact that it was taken ages ago from Tartars doesn't make it Ukraine at all.
>Was Sewastopol that important
yes
>>77695836
I don't.
>>77695744
>omitting the part where poland wanted Ukrainian lands
>>77688025
Fuck him, he can't handle the freedom
I must clean my AR-15 in his honor
>>77695455
>poland
>butthurt
rather, people like you(russophile) or russians have butthurt, we want to have on its OWN territory DEFENCE missile shield and we like nato
We do not plan the attack on Russia during military exercises but russia train warsaw destruction by the atomic bomb
>>77688025
He's right though, don't poke the bear.
What does anyone have to gain by picking a fight with a country that has 7000+ nukes?
>>77695871
Looks like you do
>>77695954
There is no nuclear defence. Before you talk with thd big boys, at least read the basics from morgenthau, waltz, nye,..
>>77695883
>Ukrainian lands
>no such thing
What a retard.
>>77696116
This. Ukranians are not even real, they are technically Russians
>>77695954
>we want to have on its OWN territory DEFENCE missile shield
But that's aggressive move you fucking idiot. If one side having nukes can't assure that they can destroy their opponent (and likewise for opponent), you create a dangerous imbalance that as it grows bigger encourages the weaker side to attack before their nuclear deterrent is made obsolete.
>but russia train warsaw destruction by the atomic bomb
How do they ''train'' that, my intellectual friend?
They literally put some numbers and that's it, it's set to go on towards Warsaw.
NATO nuclear powers have SAME shit directed towards Russia.
That's just how it works.
NATO is nothing but a military arm of American Empire. NATO is Russian geopolitical opponent. You're part of NATO.
Of course they'll fucking target you.
Also, since you're so defensive, why are you helping Kiev? What was your FM doing encouraging protestors?
If FN was staging mass protests in France and Lavrov came there to give support, you would see that as Russian meddling and you would see them as Russian proxies, right?
So how are YOUR actions in Ukraine any different?
Don't talk about geopolitics when you don't know shit about what's happening.
>>77696067
I know
I gave the example that we are doing defensive drills but Russia does offensive
but why russian have butthurt beacuse we build DEFENCE missile shield
>>77695561
>What is nuclear deterrent
I know it's a deterrent, and I'm familiar with the concept, thank you. What I mean is how can you call anti-missile shield an offensive measure against russia when it literally has no means of being offensive in the first place. All while glossing over the russian nukes. You are basically denying us any means of defending our population. Russians on the other hand never have this problem, whatever military manouvers or missiles they deploy on our borders.
>And 24/7 every Russian city is targeted by Western nukes
But it's us you call warmongers, despite the fact that we don't have any nukes whatosoever. If that's how it works, then we should either be allowed to have our own, or to have some other means of defence, like the missile shield, which would give us exactly shit, but whatever, that's a different question.
It just boggles my mind how you can gloss over obvious disproportion of power that Russia has over Poland and still be butthurt about our own defence measures.
>>77696116
You are retard
Ukraine is an independent state
inb4 hohol
>>77696164
Today they are a mixture of Poles and Russians + Tatars/Mongols.
>>77696283
Kill yourself. Gtfo to Ukraine hohol.
>>77694342
>Germany mad because based Stalin removed kebab
Old school communists were much smarter, kebab must be removed not let to infest your land.
>>77696327
fuck off I know that you are pole in Sweden
>>77696405
>poland
I said GTFO to UPAine faggot.
>>77696236
>how can you call anti-missile shield an offensive measure against russia
It diminishes Russian nuclear potential which makes it offensive.
>All while glossing over the russian nukes.
Do Americans don't have nukes?
I'm not glossing over anything. Russia is a nuclear power.
>You are basically denying us any means of defending our population.
But don't you get it?
There is no DEFENDING your population under the rules of nuclear deterrence.
If Russians can't destroy West, and if West can't destroy Russia, nuclear deterrence is gone.
>we don't have any nukes whatosoever
You're part of a military alliance dude. ''You'' have nukes. Americans, French and British do. They are your allies.
>then we should either be allowed to have our own
You know what's funny? Your own ''allies'' will never allow you to have nukes. Not Russians.
>disproportion of power that Russia has over Poland
Over Poland, yes. But Poland is part of NATO.
And Russia doesn't have advantage over NATO (at least in absolute sense).
>>77696483
>It diminishes Russian nuclear potential which makes it offensive.
>diminishes Russian nuclear potential
>offensive
>diminishing offensive measures
>OFFENSIVE
>>77696639
Exactly. Jesus Christ, is concept of MAD so hard for you to understand?
Can we just skip 50 next posts, and have you read a Wikipedia page about MAD to get the basics?
>this thread
>slavs rather be american sheep than being independent and working with their big brother
>Polen starting WW3 by being retarded again
>amerijews laughing on their way to the bank while europe burns
>mfw
abandon all hope, ye who enter
>>77696236
>how can you call anti-missile shield an offensive measure against russia when it literally has no means of being offensive in the first place
You are not very smart if you don't understand this. It's all about the first strike. Right now both USA and Russia can do one, if you take out the option for this by countering it at the beginning, you take off the option of the first strike for one country. This would lead to a first strike monopoly and the installation of this is obvs and offensive act of war.
>>77696700
You're a fucking idiot.
>>77696236
You dont know what you're talking about.
ABM systems have one purpose, to shift MAD in your favor. That's why we had ABM threaty in place in the past. Trying to take MAD away in your favor is not different to Russia placing strategic nukes in Cuba. It gives one side the chance to "win" a nuclear exchange.
>>77688025
Its called descalation
SPD wants also all the green faggots and left vots so they go for muh peace.
>>77696763
It's still not offensive and not an act of war you moron.
>>77693982
For all intents and purposes it is.
>>77696783
Jesus Christ, are you dumb or something?
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_assured_destruction
READ YOU NIGGER
>>77696876
I know what MAD is you stupid fucktard.
>>77696844
You are equally retarded.
>>77696755
>slavs rather be american sheep than being independent and working with their big brother
we just prefer to suck american strong cock instead of flacid muslim micro penis
>>77696844
It is offensive in when you're talking about nuclear weapons and deterrence you idiotic Pollack.
Do you understand?
We're talking about NUCLEAR strategy.
>>77696857
The German army (as small as it is)?
>>77693577
Yes and sandwitch you.block off all supplyis to poland and all nato members have to leave germany.
While nato trys to get cermany under controll russkis rape poland.
Gg no re.
>>77688025
steinmeier is a russophile
>>77696755
>Polen starting WW3
with who?
West is a friend, ukraine is pro nato
Russia? why should we attack russia or they us, the war will begin in the baltic countries desu
>>77696483
>It diminishes Russian nuclear potential which makes it offensive.
Yeah, it diminishes their ability to murder polish population. What a crime.
>Do Americans don't have nukes?
We're not americans.
>You're part of a military alliance dude. ''You'' have nukes. Americans, French and British do. They are your allies.
They are "allies" that actively work against our current goverment and strike deals with russians that hurt our intrests. NATO aside, they are as much our friends as they are russian friends
>Your own ''allies'' will never allow you to have nukes. Not Russians.
Yes, but one can only imagine the steady flow of blood from russin assholes if they gave us nukes.
>And Russia doesn't have advantage over NATO
That's the point idiot. Who would willingly gave advantage to their rival? Russia does not need advantage, just balance. Polish defence does not hurt that ballance in the slightes way, since it's so meagre.
>>77693886
Ofcorse vodka nigger.
And also in checnia and in georgia
Vodka niggers stealing land and blaming nato because they are irelevant.
>>77696904
Why are you saying its OK to to destroy the balance then?
>>77696206
No you do understand a single word you pawn.
both sides have the ability to destruct the opposite. This is what keeps the system in balance. The moment you are able to shield yourself from the missiles, you gain the opportunity to attack with your nuclear arsenal
>>77688025
The jews want war to weaken the white population again.
Kill every jew before they kill you.
>>77693999
Because your worth shit.
Gib prussia clay back
>>77696929
Just kill yourself. DEFENSIVE counter measures are not offensive by definition.
>>77696962
No it's not.
>>77696904
You obviously don't you bydlo cretin because you can't understand why is missile shield OFFENSIVE move under the framework of nuclear strategy.
Let me explain it you further, you imbecile: A and B can destroy each other. A starts building ICBM shield. B can no longer assuredly destroy A.
So B is faced with two options: to lose their nuclear deterrence and depend on mercy of their opponents, OR to strike before A's defenses totally negate B's ability to destroy A.
Do you understand now why A's defensive measures are actually offensive when talking about nuclear strategy?
WHITE BROTHERS, can't we just get along and band together to remove kebab and jews?
>>77694773
They weren't native to Crimea, then came in with the Golden Horde and settled there.
They picked that spot because of the trading post with the Ottomans and for 500 years they raided, abducted, raped, and enslaved slavs.
I'm glad they're all gone.
>>77696961
i was talking about Russia and not Germany, you cretin.
>>77697049
maybe, but your country will be the centerpiece of the next war, again.
>>77697130
Oh like the ICBM subs don't do that already.
>>77697211
>A starts building ICBM shield. B can no longer assuredly destroy A.
Like Russia doesn't have ICBM shields all over the place and in Kaliningrad you nigger.
>>77697170
you got niggered by a bunch of fucking slavs
you don't deserve that land hans
>>77697211
This guy gets it.
The swedish Pole won't and doesn't want to understand it though, give it up.
>>77697063
Polands interest is to stay alive it means if 500.000 stay alive and only 40.000 get the short end its legit.
Thats how democracy works.
The need of many outwaights the need of the few.
>>77697063
Actually it doesn't diminish their military capabilitys against Poland. They wouldn't use ICBMs against a short range target like Poland, you'll get nuked with SRBMs and cruise missiles should shit ever hit the fan, aegis on shore is no use against that. What the Russians are afraid of is that this system might be capable to destroy many of their ICBMs in the boost phase, preventing them to reach the US.
>>77697361
You ameri niggers took it and gave it to the slav niggers as price for treason.
>>77697345
>Like Russia doesn't have ICBM shields all over the place
They don't, you absolute retard.
They have ONE system around Moscow.
Americans were also allowed to have ONE system. They left that treaty (not evil Russians, Americans) in 2001 if I recall.
>Oh like the ICBM subs don't do that already.
They are part of nuclear triad.
>>77697305
>i was talking about Russia and not Germany, you cretin.
no, you are an idiot. By an independece you mean saying no to usa and being a part of big german euro family. fuck you and fuck that. We like being an american bitch
>>77697504
>the americans occupied land east of berlin
no
you should feel like shit for getting btfo by inbred mongoloids
>>77697345
Both sides have IC sub's that assure second strike capability. Doesn't mean its OK to ruin your enemy's first strike capability.
Russia has an ABM shield around Moscow, that's it. The US has two in place too, as it was regulated in the ABM treaty. That treaty was put in place to prevent the destruction of MAD and/or further increased depolyment of super heavy ICBMs.
>>77697558
cuck
>>77697507
>They have ONE system around Moscow.
>ONE
Yeah SURE, suuure faggot.
>>77697507
>They left that treaty (not evil Russians, Americans) in 2001 if I recall.
By what treaty? And I really really doubt that both the U.S. and the USSR kept only ONE counter measurement system each.
>>77697507
>They are part of nuclear triad.
No shit.
>>77693779
well
we let the US doing our job
they are wasting billions in european defence while we run social welfare programs they only can dream of lol
>>77697695
but still cucked by USA. you know USA? the most powerful country in the world.
>>77697731
1972 ABM treaty. Each side was limited to two ABM systems with 100ABM missiles each.
>>77688025
What's the point of these "exercises"? Russia can rekt the whole Europe in weeks. But Russia will never do it, Russia needs someone who will buy their oil and sell them luxuries.
>>77697864
>Each side was limited to two ABM systems
Oh, now it keeps growing. Great to know I deal with experts in their field here.
>>77693886
Be more specific. It was Soros who mainly sponsored this.
>>77697889
>Russia can rekt the whole Europe in weeks.
yeah right proxy Ivan. Too much of russian propaganda. So USA can wreck Russia in days?
>>77697965
>you didn't recall the exact specifics of this 40+year old treaty so I don't have to argue against the point you made. Though luck, haha
>>77697731
What the fuck are you even implying you idiot?
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-135_anti-ballistic_missile_system
>By what treaty?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Ballistic_Missile_Treaty
>>77697889
Take out their ICBM capability and no they can't, not even against Britain and France alone.
>>77698082
>Take out their ICBM capability
You know what comes before that? Nuclear war.
>>77698037
it's more like 2 weeks
but he is right
whole point of the eastern europe buffer is to delay WW3 so the mercahnts allover the world can hide their shekles and familymembers in their nuclear bunkers
I want every citizen of a nato member state to read polands contributions in thjs thread, just at the offchance that you one day have the tinniest influence in the nato.
this is why you do not let poland call the shots. I first thought they do not understwnd the conceptmof mutual destruction. But the real problem is, that the range of polnish thoughts ends at the polnish border. They genuinly believe that its defense because they have no nuclear weapons. They think its because russia is scared of ooland and needs nuclear strike capability against their 1500 horseriders. They do not understand that the discussion on both sides gives a crap on them. This is about the us offensive nuclear capabilities in the first strike doctrin and russias in the second strike doctrine.
all you new europe pawns do is painting a big target on your heads in case of a nuclear war.
>>77688453
>>77688971
European (((men))) will be slaughtered. Their women will make nice rape toys.
Why are you all arguing? Our Jewish overlords here in the US just want you all to be bred into mixed sandniggerchink creatures; which includes Russia, so we've gotta extend EU to them also. Pls let us put nukes in u?
>>77698055
To be honest after interacting with these ''people'' I no longer wonder why Germans hated them so much. What a bunch of petty idiots.
He's literally going against FACTS and LOGIC simply because he won't admit he was wrong and that he doesn't understand shit about how nuclear strategy works.
Not to mention he's a fucking POLE IN SWEDEN. Imagine that. You're a Polish patriot and you live in Sweden.
They're literally no different than fucking Arabs.
>>77698196
no bro
european "men" will be sent to slaughtering while women stay home with refugees to make sure sharia law stays in tact
>>77696999
ITT Germans act like they aren't going to have to choose between raising a Syrian or Russian cuckspawn.
>>77697838
beta fucking cuck
>>77698128
That's what I'm saying. In an conventional war they don't have a chance against NATO (without U.S.) - let's say Britain and France etc..
>>77698080
That you're stupid. >>77697864
>>77697112
>checnia
>stealing land
if we gonna whine this far back, might as well return US to brits or indians, Ukraine to poles etc.
>>77698234
It's just moronic nationalist on the internet, you have them from every country. Most poles are probably nice people. This one here's a retard though.
>>77698320
Oh they have enough potential to role over yojr sorry nation. The natomplan is to keep the russians busy before crossing the oder. That way they protect the european industrial core and make counter offensive possible.
>>77698387
>>77698055
For the points that were raised its irrelevant if one or two ABM systems were allowed. You just go against an unimportant inaccuracy because otherwise you'd have to admit you're wrong.
>>77698145
>whole point of the eastern europe buffer is to delay WW3 so the mercahnts allover the world can hide their shekles and familymembers in their nuclear bunkers
maybe yes, but in such case dont grudge us if we dont give a shit about western europe and scheme only with USA.
>>77698465
>Oh they have enough potential to role over yojr sorry nation.
You don't understand what I'm saying now do you? The U.S. did some military wargames and they showed that Poland would be able to fend of Russia (which needed to pull in their reseves from inside Russia) for some weeks. They would roll even more easily over Germany which is a joke today.
>>77698282
russian scum
>>77698320
>ITT swedish war expert
Neither bongs nor frogs had any decent enemy in the last 70 years. I know you have real ANGST of Russia, you even see their submarines everywhere, but fantasizing about their defeat will not help you. These guys will LIBERATE the shit out of your gender equal army.
>>77698320
Okay, will you listen to me now, since we have established you're not an expert?
Russia has advantage in conventional war. Why?
USA is across the ocean and this is not 80's, American troops aren't deployed in big numbers in Europe, and there are no plans like REFORGER in place anymore.
French army is respectable, but still quite savagely reduced after Cold War.
German and British armies are a big joke today.
It's not just about numbers, it's about capabilities too. Russia retain Soviet weapons, they improved some, and they poses far more capacity in many areas, while having capacity in some areas Western military forces completely lack (excluding USA).
Further things to consider: Russians have conscription which means readily available pool of reserves requiring only basic re-training at worst, and they have vast quantities of equipment in storage (though storage varies in quality, some are quite useless IMO).
Russian military industry also has advantage over Western industries (excluding USA).
And finally, before you go ''but budgets'', budgets are awful comparison because Russian budget buys far more for Russian forces than British budget does.
Russian production, R&D is cheaper because of cheaper workforce and because it's OWNED by Russian state. These are not private contractors.
They also have conscription, which means their soldier is far less expensive than Western soldier.
So yes, Russia indeed has advantage.
>>77698567
>You just go against an unimportant inaccuracy because otherwise you'd have to admit you're wrong.
I'm wrong? I'm not the one that said that they only had ONE ABM you idiot. You guys owned each other.
>>77698465
At least it shifted over to them now. Before the fall of the soviet union we would've been on deep shit because it was planned to stop the Russian advance over the west German plains with tactical nukes while uncle tom gets his shit I've the large pond. Now the Baltics and Poland will get glasses should Ivan invade.
>>77698676
>but fantasizing about their defeat will not help you.
I actually don't, I'm not pro U.S. nor Russia.
>>77698387
Dude you're literally grasping straws.
One or two systems don't matter. Do you know how many ICBM warheads could Soviet system intercept? 1 or 2.
It was more of a test facility than real defensive project.
And reason for that is because nuclear defense is terribly expensive, because every ICBM now since MIRV came has many warheads and includes penetration aids.
>>77698686
>since we have established you're not an expert?
Neither are you Mr. ONE ABM.
>>77698591
That pic lol. It really is just a game to these people isnt it?
>>77698700
Again, for the points that were made its irrelevant that they were limited to two but not one ABM system. They obviously weren't (and aren't) all over the place, and they are considered a threat to MAD and thus offensive.
>>77698906
They're rich, safe, fat and happy. Of course it's a game to them.
>>77698860
>>77698801
Jesus Christ.
Soviets had ONE system. They were allowed two.
I forgot the details of treaty. How does this matter at all in this subject?
Are you fucking serious?
When will you understand that Russians are shilling to break Europeans unity?
Guys, stop fighting and unite against the giant Russian bear.
>>77698906
yes it is
I am just waiting for van der leien to announce the CO2 neutral solar driven Leopard tank
>>77698591
Just fuckin' join Russia. EU only drains the best human resources from you and leaves you in shit. USSR treated you like a dear guest und Russia will do it just as well.
>>77699010
What about the problem that "European unity" literally means bazzilion of (Muslim) immigrants, ban of free speech, destruction of culture and economy and so on?
That's cool, as long as Russia is destroyed, right?
Are you 12 years old, or just Muslim/Ukrainian?
Guys. Guys.
When will you understand that Russians are shilling to break Europeans unity?
Guys, stop fighting and unite against the giant Russian bear.
>>77698832
This has changed now though. Should the US field fast enough interceptors with enough range in Poland they could at least theoretically destroy Russian ICBMs in the boost phase, before the warheads separate.
Of that's possible right now doesn't matter, the possibility is bad enough. In practise that probably just means that in an nuclear exchange the systems in Poland will get nuked in a matter of minutes by SRBMs. So congratulations Poland, you made yourself a tier 1 nuke target to improve US security.
>>77699101
why the fuck do you care? its our territory. We even didnt want german troops here, so you fucks had to go to Lithuania
>>77698591
Son to delay the russians your country gets nuked.
Was not nice to know you bydlo.
Also who comes first to help when you house burns?
The neigbour next to you or the one from the other city?
our defense minister said in tv yesterday that his cooperation with german defense minister was very good and the media are trying to create a false narrative of conflict
>>77699181
Nice provocation, frog. You will just give up as always while the others get rect? Good plan.
>>77698607
The us did some military wargames so that you retards shut up. There is no other reason. The nato signals that it is willing to fight over poland, but that does not mean, that you would be able to fend of the russians.
>>77688025
>No, it's not against Russia, it's totally against Iran. We swear.
>>77699293
I never really saw any proof that was possible though. Besides Russian ICBM's go over North Pole, and most of them are mobile and somewhere in Siberia.
But you're right about second part. Poles just drew a huge bulls eye over their country.
>>77699301
Nobady gives a fuck what you want.
You are a play ball for the powerfull.
We just here to designate tac nuke impact points to stop any to fast russki advances.
Also as a member of eu and nato we for sure will not let retards speak in ouer name.
All you do is draw the eu in to a war.
>>77699341
EU and Germany is still trying to fuck your government over and make you accept refugees, that's why our governments clash. On a defense level all is fine. And steinmeier is just trying to keep his voters at bay, there is no political power behind his "pls don't poke the bear" statement.
>>77699320
>Son to delay the russians your country gets nuked.
but you know that usa bases are extraterritorial? It would be direct attack not on NATO but the very USA. Last time some shitskins attacked american soil they invaded Iraq and Afganistan. No one counts on nato. Only usa matters.
>>77699432
Not to mention how idiotic that sounds considering how Iran signed the deal and dropped nuclear weapons program.
>>77699432
Was meant to replay to this:
>>77693834
>>77699425
Indefently not but a pull back fight.
Meanwhile usa troops strike from the south and east in to russia whiel canadian and us troops strike from the north.
Who knows maybe china joins and can keep syberia and all the oil and gas there.
>>77699480
I don't know if its possible either. But if I think about THAAD from the 80s and MKV from then 90s I guess it could be possible by now. Most Russian ICBM silos are on western Russia., west of the Urals if I remember correctly.
The Sarmat can even fly over the south pole I think. But they (all ICBMs) are all large and heavy, their throw weight comes with a price. An interceptor probably doesn't even need a warhead and can be smaller, thus faster and have higher acceleration. Could make catching up to a launched ICBM possible I guess.
>>77699560
And yet you get nuked. Happy glowing.
Afganistan was invadet by nato troops and every time usa want a war they try to get nato drawn in.
>>77699560
Are you fucking retarded?
an attack on a nato state is allready a declaration of nuclear war you freaking mongrel. And you fucking idiots are now the prime target.
but who am i to get mad, now million poles die instead of million germans. Good work poland.
>>77699600
That's not what I meant, I just pondered the possibility of how a defensive anti missile shield in a country that has no means of attacking could in itself be "anti russian".
Besides, who the fuck knows. I think it was your politician who not long ago threatend to "take actions" against Poland because we wouldn't take in the muslims. Maybe we'll yet see a new conflict inside EU
>>77699869
>an attack on a nato state is allready a declaration of nuclear war you freaking mongrel.
bulshiiiiiiiiit. Read the nato agreement. Nato is a shit. We can count only on usa and maybe uk.
nice meme
>>77699869
Yeah. Instead to descalete they just ask to be murdert.
Thats what you get for education ofdiscovery chanel.
Poland is by far not ready for war.
>>77700006
>he does not understwnd the discussion aorund article 5
Why am i not suprised. If you think you can only rely kn the americans, then go fuck yourself and get wrecked by the russians without the german and french war industry and wait for the americans trying to land on fucking kaliningrad.
>>77699857
>can be smaller, thus faster and have higher acceleration
It applies only to cannonballs, not to fuckin' missiles. Big missiles fly way faster and longer than small ones. The problem is not their speed though, but their early detection.
>>77693945
you're an idiot if you don't think it was an U.S sponsored coup.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957
http://youtube.com/watch?v=KIvRljAaNgg
So they overthrow the pro Russian leader (who was actually neutral at the end), and you don't think Russia wouldn't respond when their naval base was in Ukraine?
>>77700155
so again why the fuck do you care? its our problem. We dont want germans nor french here, only burgers.
>>77699857
THAAD is not really revolutionary though. It's expensive as fuck, and it was designed to intercept shorter range missiles. It's range is several hundred kilometers.
ICBM warheads go far far faster. Analogy I heard was that intercepting it is like hitting a bullet with a bullet.
SM-3 missiles (the ones in Poland and Romania) are also not revolutionary despite memes from those who make them. They still haven't intercepted an ICBM warhead.
I doubt they'll dent Russian capacity much. But it's a dangerous move, and it negates Russian capacity in Europe.
>>77699900
You=allied with USA.
USA=ability to attack Russia.
How is this so hard for you to understand?
>>77700167
Of course it applies to missiles. Theoretically take the first stage of a 3 stage ICBM, launch it without heavy payload and 2nd/3rd stage. It will accelerate faster since the thrust to weight ratio is higher. Small missiles (like SAM stuff, for example) pull insane acceleration at launch, while a fuckhuge ICBM will accelerate with ~1-2 or so g at launch.
>>77688025
>posts on 4chan
>is from Poland
>Poland
thinks he has more knowledge in IR than a guy who is minister for foreign relations for over 10 years now
go home Poland, go home
>>77700304
You wont get burgers you idiot.
the burgers are pivoting to asia and are million miles away. They cannot fight a war over poland logistically without germany and france.
>>77700452
>implying the missile shield could stop the russian nukes
>implying they don't have 10 other options of fucking Poland up
>>77700722
This is not about poland but the us you fucking mongrel. Is that so hard to get into your head. You are a nato member, you are now part of americas powerframe.
>>77700412
I know what THAAD is intended to do. I should have worded my way more clearly: Stuff lime THAAD or the MKV was developed 20-30 years ago. Who knows what they have today? An ABM interceptor that could catch up to am ICBM launched a ~1000 or so km away and hit it in its boost phase doesn't sound overly complicated to me to other systems that are already in place. I mean wouldn't you basically just need an upscaled THAAD with longer range and probably higher launch acceleration? Hitting an ICBM in its boost phase should be way easier than an incoming warhead, you just need a rocket with enough range that can catch up.
>>77700597
>>77700707
Well they are and WILL be. They would sell out Poland in a heartbeat for an US-Russian alliance against China.
>>77700597
>>77693710
Sure thing RT
>>77700844
I know that, gee, why are you getting so buttflustrated. You're taking this too seriously.
>>77688025
I just want you cunts to know, I hate all of your countries.
You're all shit compared to Great Bongistan.
>>77701008
t. Osama al-Cuck bin Jihadi
>>77701008
Sure-sure
>>77700905
>>77700945
oh yea, thats why everybody criticized germany for their sanctions against russia. This was mostly initiated by germany. The USA has their most important base in Europe in Germany. There are so many facts from actual schoolar of IR which are speaking against your "theory".
>>77700945
And?
Sikorski is crazy in the literal sense. Everybody knows that but you polaks. No one takes him seriously.
>>77701092
>bimbo + nigger
Seems right
>>77700304
You understand that grrman airspace waterways and port will be offlimits and you cut off from america?
And again retard what you want is a shit worth.
As a member of eu and nato your action will draw us all in to a war.
So will the french germans spanish sweedish tell you what to do and how to do it.
>>77700849
Well no because flight profile is different.
THAAD has a range of 200km (quoted) for a reason, because it needs shitload of speed to catch ICBM warhead in terminal phase.
While ICBM does accelerate rather slow, it's still too fast.
Lasers are really only realistic option, but they're still a meme weapon.
>>77700722
It can't but it's a dangerous precedent.
>>77701181
I knew you will like it :3
>>77701097
>sanctions
>"sanctions"
NORDSTREAM my shit up etc. etc..
>The USA has their most important base in Europe in Germany.
Because the US never left after 1945 and is still holding Germany by its balls so they don't get to comfy with Russia.
>>77701128
In what sense? And I don't care about that traitor Bilderberg puppet nor his jewing wife.
>>77701376
No laisers are not a meam any more.
>>77701376
Oh, and I forgot to write, it's simply because of air resistance.
This could be overcome by for example shooting missile up straight and then guiding it towards ICBM. But that's also complex as fuck and not yet achievable really.
>>77701532
These types I'm talking about still are.
>>77697112
>Chechnya
>sovereign Russian land invaded by Islamic jihadis
Yeah, Russia should have just bent over and taken the Mujahadeen dick, right Germany?
>>77688025
>NATO exercises that simulate a Russian attack on Poland is warmongering
>Russian exercises that simulate dropping a nuke on Warsaw or other European capital is not warmongering
>>77701483
the conflict in the Ukraine broke out 2014, the sanctions have been initiated in 2014, the nordstream project was finished in 2011. Do you have an argument or are just talking bullshit ?
>>77701376
I see no reason why you wouldn't be able to build a rocket that can catch up to an ICBM. It gets fast, yes, but it takes 12 or so minutes until the engines burn out. Build a large interceptor and exchange the throw weight for faster acceleration, done. It would probably be quite big (like almost as big as an ICBM), but i guess it could work.
>>77701420
Holy shit, I thought that was bait, but it's real.
>>77701794
>Russian exercises that simulate dropping a nuke on Warsaw or other European capital
[citation needed]
>>77701828
>the sanctions have been initiated in 2014
The "sanctions" have been lifted and even during them Germany cooperated with Russia in many fields, like NORDSTREAM 2.
The Ukraine conflict was kicked off in response to Russia's interference in Syria.
US wanted to invade Syria, and Russia interceded and stopped it, the next thing you know there's a "people's revolution" right on Russia's doorstep that has the head of the CIA visiting and "advising".
>>77702008
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/poland/6480227/Russia-simulates-nuclear-attack-on-Poland.html
https://www.stratfor.com/analysis/zapad-exercises-russia-flexes-its-military-strength
>>77702049
Most European nation cooperates with Russia for gas though, we depend on their energy
>>77702049
show me some evidence for that claims. Also nordstream 2 is just in talks and not in planing.
>>77702181
>http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/poland/6480227/Russia-simulates-nuclear-attack-on-Poland.html
>"said to have"
>"allegedly"
>"thought to have been"
All those sources are Polish, and cite no hard evidence at all. Cite an objective Russia source, or admit it is all hearsay and rumors.
>>77694620
good job (no sarcasm)
>>77688453
Junckers back off
EU countries should re-establish trade with Russia on their own terms and not yours you faggot
