Former Libertarian, Ron Paul types who are now Alt-Right or National Socialist or Traditionalist or whatever.
Can you walk through your experiences, and try to help out some of the normies on here? What made you make the switch, how did you ideologically justify the switch.
Where do you stand on economic matters now?
Ect ect
Looking for an educational thread. Not so much "red pill me", though feel free to do so if it will help you explain...I'm already red pilled and reading Julius Evola personally.....this is more of a...let's hope some confused little libertarian stumbles in here.
Let's make the sell boys. We all know the issues, let's make the ideological sell!
I swallowed the reality pill: freedom is ideal, but to survive in a competitive universe with finite resources you must protect yourself and your people first, at all costs.
>>77620875
I became more pragmatic and I want anyone other than hillary.
Trump is not a liberty candidate but he is 100x better than hillary
Was Ron Paul in 08 & 12
Did heavy activism in 08, was less involved the second time around
>not being a Hoppetarian
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EO68Kvb9fD4
>>77620875
Libertarians are too idealist and egalitarian. Once normies shake off the egalitarianism, they usually leave the libertarian movement; at least that's what happened with me.
>>77620875
I used to be a near an-cap libertarian, then I saw the light and embraced our lord and savior Moldbug.
Now I oppose democracy and republicanism in all of its forms.
>national socialist
are you people fucking serious?
Personally, I went from neocon to ancap, and found out that it was totally at odds with human nature, and thus it was utopia.
Not only that, it encouraged globalism and centralization. Effectively destroying small businesses and propping up the multi national corperations of the world.
I then figured I would rather have a state than a corperation as the sovereign.
I then drifted I into monarchy, which was a nice exercise, but totally unrealistic. So back into reality, I started to create a philosophical mindset that rejected classical liberalism...as it is utopian, just like communism, via ancap.
After I rejected classical liberalism, it all opened up for me, and i got into plato and classical government and virtue and civilization. The defender of that was, surprisingly, nazi germany. Wow.
Then I explored the Jewish issue, read elders of zion, a little bit of the torah, watched the eternal jew on youtube, and was satisfied...
Until I found out about julius evola, and that is where I am now. To the right of National Socialism.
By the way, the socialism in national socialism. Nothing to do with marxism. It's all about socializing the individual, which is basically a rejection of Liberalism.
>>77621465
>I fell for the Neoreaction meme.
>>77620875
I want to stick Steve Horowitz in an oven.
>>77621609
Yes, dark Enlightenment had such a awesome ring to it. Did you get it to moldbug?
I became a libertarian in 2010 and let me tell you, if you switched from being a libertarian, then you weren't one to begin with, you were just a band hopping edgy little bitch trying to get some attention for a view that is generally uncommon and unpopular.
>>77621531
Don't freak out.
About a year ago, if I were you, I would've freaked out.
I'm telling you, there is really freaking good ideologically sound reasons for it. It is the polar opposite of Marxism, while liberalism rides the middle line
>>77620875
My way was this: SJW's -> apolitical normie -> neocon -> libertarian -> paleolibertarian -> nationalist
It was a gradual change. I became more "social conservative" and nationalistic with time.
I am still a libertarian on most issues except immigration thats the issue that gets me.
>>77621983
No, I was pretty deep into it.
But I hit the end. Ancap. And i realized that shit was never gonna happen.
Not only that, it was degenerate as fuck. I wanted freedom and liberty and shit, but I thought virtue was supposed to naturally come with that.
Nope.
http://therightstuff.biz/2013/01/23/fascist-libertarianism-for-a-better-world/
Come to the dark side
Economically,
>>77621080
This plus being an evolutionary biologist, national socialism is the only logical outcome if my people are to exist in the future.
>>77622276
Like I said, you weren't a libertarian to begin with. Libertarianism is all about the individual, if the entire nation is full of men of vice, then you're supposed to stand as an example, a shining beacon of virtue in a free society which values liberty above all things else.
>>77620875
I came back to the Orthodox Church and read traditionalist authors. I understood that capitalism is very modern and materialistic just like socialism is, and not good for the spiritual health of a nation. I also understood that absolute freedom is just to be a slave to one's passions, it is nothing more than cultural decadence and nihilism.
Even major libertarian figures supported pinochet and low key supported authoritarianism
>>77620875
Still libertarian, just think that open borders are obviously bad. Certain political concepts are not universal, such as democracy (example: Democracy + islam = inevitable theocracy).
I think the original constitution and bill of rights are pretty much perfect (essentially libertarian-ism limited to land owning white men). Everything else is pretty much a shitty off-spin.
>>77622485
See, but that is bullshit.
That sounds nice, but that is literally fucking cancer to civilization. I don't want my kids growing up in that. Like it or not, if you atomize the individual, like I used to, you buy into nihilism.
That's fucking depressing man
>>77622623
I realized that freedom is not the ultimate goal.
>>77622893
What do you think of the articles of Confederation.
And if the original constitution is perfect (you haven't read the anti federalists) why is it doing such a shit type job at protecting american traditional society today.
Obviously it has failed.
>>77620875
When you're older you'll lose your Libertarian ideals. It Is not conducive with a capable society and therefore a capable government. I went from Dem to Repub then Libertarian and ended at a form of Democratic Socialism. Not the Sanders type, close but I don't like sugarcoating reality. Strict regulations on Banks and multinational corporations are required to ensure political corruption Is stunted here and abroad by said institutions. Those In poverty can be lifted through infrastructure rebuilding, and strict welfare laws can ensure that all that need money put themselves on a path to acquiring It ( Mandatory work, or college education ). And the rich would pay a marginally higher tax rate to ensure the state can continue to maintain It's population, It's living standard and way of life. Those that were allowed to generate such vast amounts of wealth from the state must at least pay their society back through taxation.
>>77623007
The constitution has not failed to protect the people, the people have failed to protect the constitution.
I mean think about it.
The greatest minds on earth for thousands of years, never figured out to just leave everyone alone?
Bullshit. They knew that anarchy invites dictatorship...and not the kind that is in your favor
>>77622623
you are so full of shit, who are you shilling for?
CONTEXT MUCH?
FUCK OFF, SHILL
>>77623144
Why democratic. You have to have read Hans hermann Hoppes book, democracy the god that failed
>>77623148
No, see that's bullshit. Your supreme court says otherwise
>>77623144
On the issue of banks:
Rothbard, Huerta de Soto and Hoppe (all three are ancaps) believe in full-reserve banking. What authority is going to control it?
>>77622623
There is no reputable source for Rothbard's comment either.
FUCKING SHILL
>>77620875
Still an ancap. If we had freedom of association, like minded people could form communities with rules that everyone agrees to. No niggers, no gay clubs, no muslims etc. Other people can live in communities with diversity and all that shit but I believe that degenerate communities could not thrive without the government.
>>77622100
Marxism, (classical) liberalism, and fascism are all slight deviations of the same phenomenon.
I agree with you about Pinochet, but calling Pinochet a fascist makes about as much sense as calling Louis XIV a fascist (which is obviously absurd, from a historical perspective or otherwise). Of course, people call Pinochet a fascist anyway; whatever. Pinochet had about as much in common with Hitler and Mussolini, as either of them had with Louis XIV.
Reject republicanism entirely, and you are rejecting most European-American thought from the late 18th century onward, and virtually all thought in the 20th century.
The solution is secure power: downward flowing authority. One unified, coherent power structure, with no internal competition. No politics, democracy, or liberalism in any form.
>>77623304
I don't think it is a permanent form either, thus evola. I'm not disagreeing with mises, we just haven't had a chance to discuss his statement yet.
>>77623431
No authority controls it.
Banks would issue their own currency and compete with each other.
Of course their bank notes would be worthless unless actually matched with a tangible resource like gold.
And there is always stuff like bitcoin.
>>77623148
Restricting power through a constitution, ie. republicanism, is a solecism.
You could run the experiment a hundred million times; the result would always be the same. From Locke's ideas of "human rights", to a Rawlsian conception of social democracy, embodied by the Warren court onward.
>>77622623
tracked the Rothbard quote with proper context.
STILL SHILLING MOTHERFUCKER
STILL SHILLING, YOU MUST BE A STORM FAGGOT
FUCKING SHILL
http://archive.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/ir/Ch5.html
Rothbard is actually describing a right wing populist program and, by the way, he never, that quote is wrong, too many words were added that he never even wrote.
>>77623526
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/murray-rothbards-practical-politics/
Bullshit, use google
>>77621627
FERTILE
E
R
T
I
L
E
>>77623566
How How do you get there without someone in power coming down hard on your ass?
>>77623425
Supreme court? The supreme court was never meant to be partisan. The supreme court was never meant to interpret the constitution, its interpretation is self evident. The people were supposed to rise up from time to time using the 1st and if need be the 2nd amendment to ensure the system remained in check. But that has not happened so yes the people failed the constitution.
>>77623932
Well, double checked and stand corrected, he wrote those words but CONTEXT matters.
Otherwise it's like a fucking salon.com headline.
he is not describing a libertarian order, but a right wing one, from back in the day when he was a right winger.
>>77620875
The way I see it, a lot of libertarians are in fact right-wing moralists but don't see it as either their or the governments place to regulate morality. Thus they find comfort in a system that would allow them the freedom to pursue their own noble aspirations, both economic and personal.
However, I find for most libertarians, myself included, became disillusioned when you see what the average person makes of the freedom granted them. They squander and spend until they have nothing. They do nothing to uplift their communities. And while under a libertarian system that would cut away social welfare to prevent them from becoming leeches, I don't see that as a fate my fellow man deserves because of their ignorance. A system set around the worship of money and atomization is no system for me. Better to govern their morality to some extent for their own good. I don't hate libertarianism, but I don't see it as possible in any substantial country this day and age. Maybe I'm wrong, who knows.
>>77623625
Fascism is the rejection of the enlightenment. Rejection of Liberalism and marxism.
That's the whole point.
>>77623379
It was the party of my family. When I turned fifteen I turned from the Democratic party.
>>77623431
Depends on where you personally stand. I couldn't care less for the idea. The money a bank has must be held by said bank. Currency Is a lot more complicated, and I have little authority to speak. However much of our money doesn't currently "exist", It's invested or traded. The promise a bank gives you Is that at the end of the day you get your withdrawal, and that they will return your money upon requirement. So It's essentially a pool of cash being added to, taken from, invested from ect. It can work with government intervention. Banks must be transparent In their business, and ensure that their history can be accessed by all people. Banking Is the evil that cannot be destroyed. So we must contain It, by doing so we can manage this monster that our ancestors created.
>>77623738
Man, you changed of topic...
>>77623566
This guy gets it, absent government handouts only the non-degenerate would able to flourish.
>>77622478
Translation: I don't understand economics, so I reject the whole field as irrelevant and come up with some bullshit about how material wealth is not important (even though the seeking of wealth pretty much drove history so far).
>>77623932
Look dude, I shared a meme picture that I found one time.
Not a shill...but how about you stop worrying so much about bout me possibly taking you fucking prophets words out of context...and you argue the points?
I didn't mean to, I just didn't check. I figured based ass rothbard with his 90s fling with Buchanan and his creation of paleo libertarian would be enough
>>77624053
But yet it does interpret...
It has failed.
A success would be having a system in which, the piece of paper is followed.
>>77624147
Fascism is nothing more than an abhorrent mutation of democracy, following in the tradition of Rousseau and Hegel. It is politics, even if not the formal kind, still of the informal.
You don't get to Fascism without going through the American and French revolutions first.
To truly reject liberalism and the enlightenment, you must discard (virtually) everything after the American and French revolutions. When you realize that Robert Filmer was basically right, you have finally reached true (dark) enlightenment. Not this facade of democracy, fascism, which is simply the continuation of Democracy and politics by other means.
>>77621573
ancap doesn't include globalism, u can literaly have any political system u want under ancap, even natsoc so long as it is voluntary
>>77624387
Correct. However welfare paired with mandatory work or a college education with the risk of losing said welfare Is a proper incentive to correct America's current crisis.
>>77624086
That's fair, but let's just stick to the points instead of worrying about context from a stupid ass meme.
>>77624567
Again, the people have failed to rise up and suppress the system.
>>77624458
sorry, got a bit worked up. too much coffee.
that's why i fucking hate memes. as some polster said a few days ago: memes are fucking intellectual cancer.
>>77624112
I've always felt like the social stances get adopted by the left, and the economic stances get ignored by everyone
>>77622970
el fin principal del gobierno es el bien según Platón.
Al bien no se llega dejando que todos hagan lo que quieran.
----
>>77624953
we don't speak sudaca here. write in proper english, please.
>>77624442
No, not at all.
I recognize economics as the gears of society. How it works. Not as the end all public good.
Do you deny materialism replacing out spiritual self?
Nihilism is the issue. God is dead. We have replaced him with lust for material.
Problem is, your money is going directly to multinationals who break all of your pretty little economic rules.
.just like communism, ancap is great in a vacuum, where no one can cheat,
If you aren't a libertarian, you are a traitor to the American ideal. The founding fathers would have literally murdered the politicians we have making power plays today and eroding the inalienable rights of man.
>>77624442
things like are all cool and sound nice and shit, but so far no one has devised a better system than capitalism.
fuck, we don't even have capitalism these days, it's all state capitalism.
capitalism can only be fully accomplished in an anarchist society.
>>77624212
I think fractional reserve is the problem.
With fractional reserve banks can multiply deposits at a rate that is astonishing. Then when all these money created from nothing that is not backed by any savings is lend to entrepreneurs and is invested in bubbles sector then occurs all these bank runs where the taxpayers or normal citizen is going to pay:
1)by bailing out banks with taxpayer money
2)by inflation
The way to restrain banks is full reserve banking at least imo.
>>77624583
That's just not true. The fasci has been around for a really long freaking time, and it abhors the enlightenment revolutions.
Ohh...second part Parton partofyour answer. I I haven't heard of filmer. More info?
Yes, democracy is a corruption of democracy in the very begining, as the only way to kill democracy, is vote it out of existence
>>77625160
Unalienable, not inalienable, but yeah. And as I have said, it is the peoples fault for not using their 1st and 2nd amendment processes to subdue the system.
>>77625014
spanish post means granted replies
>>77624755
One interesting pattern to note in the USA, is that leftist ("liberal") policies which tend to grow and expand the bureaucracies and civil tended to be adopted quite quickly, whereas leftist policies which did not facilitate that end, did not.
For example, note that private unions are less powerful now than they have been in almost a hundred years, yet the civil services are larger and more politically powerful than they have ever been.
Or notice how gay marriage has only recently come to pass, or how hard it has been to decriminalize marijuana. The former hardly facilitated the expansion of bureaucracy, and thus was of low priority for the leftist power centers; the latter, by keeping marijuana criminalized, facilitates many jobs and powers for more than a few federal agencies - and many, many jobs. Thus marijuana is still illegal. The prediction matches the experience.
>>77623932
White collar criminals are far more dangerous to capitalism. Typical elitist garbage.
>>77624584
Really?
So capitalistic competition leads to distributionist type decentralization instead of centralization? Why do we have Pepsi and Coke and walmart and ect?
What happens when my 8 year old child decides to unvolunteer for my volunteer society.
>>77624713
So the system has failed though...
Hmm
Remember the civil war.
Government doesn't take too kindly to civilians trying to put it into check
>>77625576
when they are enabled and protected by the state...
gee, try and use your brain next time.
>>77624748
No problem. I shouldn't have posted half thought out quotes.
>>77625587
The government made them that way moron.
>>77624953
Especifica.
Queramos o no; la civilización es una mezcla entre orden espontaneo y normas e instituciones sociales.
>>77621337
This. The alt right care too much about personal choices and traditional values, whether it's gay marriage or race mixing. I don't really care about traditions, or who fucks who, but I believe most people naturally would just choose to live a modest life when left to their own devices.
>>77624953
You get to go the gas chambers early...fucking speak a real language
>>77625160
The founding fathers were left wing radicals
Liberalism followed it's natural course. If the founding fathers woke up today, sure they'd be pissed.
But had they stayed awake and never died...they'd be sanders supporters.
>>77625356
Fascism of the real sort - the sort that culminated in WW2, not the word "fascism" which is thrown out will-nilly by the left, towards anything they disagree with (for example, toward Pinochet) - is directly a product of the international socialist movements of the late 19th and early 20th centuries.
Certainly, Fascism is a rejection of international socialism, but its roots within it are clear to be seen.
Filmer is sort of like a super-charged Hobbes; in fact, he almost makes Hobbes look like a communist. Both of the them understood that secure power, downward-flowing authority was the only sensible configuration for a sovereign, but whereas Hobbes was OK with Cromwell serving as that device, Filmer was not.
Even Hobbes variant of social contract theory was too much for Filmer - Filmer advocated complete piety toward a king, who would serve as a sort of patriarch or god-emperor in his sovereignty. The very conception of "human rights" in any form was alien to Filmer.
>>77625258
Why is capitalism good though? Look at the debt. Look at culture. Look at overpopulation.
Quality is always better than quantity.
You get shitty everything with socialism, and everything affordable is shitty with capitalism. Why is that our religion?
Fucking cult of gold. It robs us of our identity.
>>77620875
>going from a libertarian to a nat soc
you're a fucking retard and you must've been a shitty libertarian to begin with. How dare you include Milton Friedman in the picture you fucking mongrel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSumJxQ5oy4
>>77625804
So you envision a system that ignores that reality?
I know the nature of monopoly. But monopoly is here. Now what?
Good luck with ancap while you face the mother of all barriers to entry...
Or you can pull a hitler, and unplug from the bullshit
>>77620875
Your pic is implying them being Jewish automatically makes their positions bad. Rothbard was against Zionism, something you probably agree with.
>>77625848
But they dont, look at literally any human population center
>>77626297
Sounds like I'm a fan of filmer.
But we gotta get there first. Because socialism happened. How do we go back?
>>77626718
Under a libertarian society, whites can freely associate with their own. They can have private white communities where no outside interference can corrupt them.
>>77620875
>generic post that not so subtly implies ideology X is outdated and must obviously be steered away from at this point in the calendar
next thing you're going to tell me it's the year two thousand sixteen.
>>77626342
Someone is triggered...
Not a retard or a shitty libertarian,
Just one who asked too many questions asked during thought through the ideology
>>77624627
I would get behind that so quickly. I would also hope for random drug testing. Hopefully a few decades living under a welfare system like that would leave a population that might be able to thrive under more libertarian policies.
>>77625848
People are monkeys, and monkeys form tribes and coalitions with which to assume power, and strip other monkey-tribes of resources. Such is all warfare, including democracy.
Most people, left to their own devices, will pursue exactly this end. Hundreds of thousands - if not millions of years of evolution - have assured this end. We would not be here if it was not codified into are DNA. We have literally evolved to play cut-throat political games with each other, and we are very, very good at it.
>>77626622
Pic implies that jews are bad, yes.
Production is wealth.
He didn't get his grubby fucking fingers dirty once.
He has not meaningfully contributed to society.
>>77626927
Whites will always voluntarily bring nonwhites into their communities in order to get cheap labor. Race is powerless in the face of economic reality.
>>77626927
Yup, how do you get there, is uncle sam gonna allow it, or do you need a dictator?
>>77625808
Cierto, pero si definís "bien" como aquella situación que favorece la felicidad de las personas y a su vez usas la definición aristotélica de felicidad, también conocida como eudaimonia. En ese momento te das cuenta de que el "buen" gobierno no es aquel que permita el mejor bienestar sino que permita la posibilidad de un desarrollo pleno del ser humano.
>>77626992
No...I said that we should keep riding the tiger man
>>77621433
>mfw when you tried to make an argument
>>77627254
Slavery bro...restore it
Holy shit I caught up to the bottom. Yes.
>>77625857
but i want my own chamber, i don't want to be in the same as the jew niggers and gays
>>77625708
The people failed there too
>>77626894
Option A) is to create an alternative power structure, one that people recognize is superior to the current. Much like the Soviets defaulted to the West at the end of the cold war, the West must default to this alternative power structure, when it becomes obvious that it is superior to the status-quo, much as the Soviet populations did.
Other than that, military coup. Or "true election", of the sort that it sounds like you advocate ("one man, one vote, one time"). Either of those could work, but I think would be largely inferior to option A).
>>77627708
That's fair...
Since you speak civilized, I'm gonna use you as my ambassador to the shitty countries of the world.
You'll get gassed at some point, sure, but you'll have have a chance to really effect society in a positive way first
>>77627372
>is uncle sam gonna allow it
Of course not, I have no idea how it'll come.
>or do you need a dictator?
Yeah, great idea. Then you get another Bela Kun or Stalin.
>>77625857
Let us speak in my mother tongue: castilian.
>>77627405
Concuerdo. Pero somos extremadamente materialistas. La tecnología ha enmascarado mucho problemas. Esto en España se observa perfectamente. Hace 50 años era muchos mas pobres pero eramos un país mas sano moralmente.
>>77627770
Then just accept that you'll literally never restore what you want
Give up now dude, otherwise you'll grow grow old grow old and grow old and die saying the same stupid shit
But if we the people would just grab our ar15 and fight back!
>>77627254
One of the the government's only jobs would be to secure the border using the military.
>>77627254
>Whites will always voluntarily bring nonwhites into their communities in order to get cheap labor.
Or as a vote-bank.
>>77627819
Interesting. But there is no existing model for option a
>>77628017
Don't be silly.
You'll hopefully get a hitler
>>77628065
#triggered
>>77628308
And how do you ensure this?
>>77628528
Well, step 1, make your dictator a nazi instead of a bolshevik
>>77628241
Yes, that's the problem - the West has no "West" upon which to default, like the Soviets did.
At the end of the cold war, the Warsaw block wasn't really embracing "western liberalism"; rather, they were rejecting "soviet communism". All that they knew is that they were tired and fed up of the Soviet system, and "liberal democracy" appeared to be a better alternative. (Sadly, it didn't work out well during the 90s, and of course Russia has rejected their disastrous experiment with liberal democracy entirely, and have now put their chips into Putin.)
Moldbug wrote at length about the problem, but a decent short summary is here, if you are interested:
http://thefutureprimaeval.net/passivism-and-the-procedure/
http://therightstuff.biz/2013/01/23/fascist-libertarianism-for-a-better-world/
Like that
>>77628129
The truth is the truth. National socialism is simply the best alternative to constitutional republic because to have a constitution and liberty you must have a common morality which we no longer possess. I'm a national socialist until we kill or remove the undesirable degenerates, then back to the constitution.
>>77628772
Definitely, I'll check it out
>>77626894
>But we gotta get there first. Because socialism happened. How do we go back?
Minor quibble here - the problem wasn't that "socialism happened". The problem is that "liberalism" happened - and I do mean classical liberalism, which inevitably beget modern "liberalism", or "socialism".
It's only a logical step to go from John Locke to John Rawls, and then onto the Warren court decisions and beyond. At that point, whatever is left of the Constitution has become meaningless, only existing to be interpreted by those holding power.
See what I mean?
Libertarianism is the auxiliary line of communism. At the same time the Marxists converge on the media and academia in order to transform them into central organs of cultural reproduction for the revolutionary ideology, economic liberalism acts on the political sphere by unleashing market forces that destroy the intermediary institutions that stand between the individual and the State.
Ultimately, my "classical liberalism" is political and reactionary. I will defend markets as a way to alocate resources without recourse to the State, but unregulated markets destroy the very institutions that limit the power of the State. That's why I consider Milton Friedman a crypto-communism, by unleashing market forces to wreck havoc across intermediary institutions, he facilitated the job of Cultural Marxist intelligentsia and revolutionary activists.
>>77628893
Constitutions are stupid...
See meme
I guess post fascism I would want to get more towards a ethnically balkanized world of rothbard like enclaves...heavy emphasis on spirituality of course, as each culture defines itself and it's identity
Like hundreds of wolf packs, each with their own hunting grounds
>>77629208
Well yeah, I totally agree.
You explained it out better than it out
>>77624583
THIS THIS THIS
You have to reset at pre-Enlightenment. The Enlightenment was foundation of everything everything wrong now, on all sides of the spectrum.
>>77629300
>>77629300
DAMN that was an interesting perspective. I totally agree
>>77621609
>I lack an argument
I was a tea party conservative then after the betrayal of the ones we voted for. I became a Nationalist. I wish to not be called conservative nor a libertarian. I threw them away and went with a real grassroots ideology.
>>77629589
- everything
>>77620875
>Ayn Rand
>Jew
>Was against religion
>>77628871
I read that, and I mostly agree, but I feel like they are abusing the word "fascist" in a sort of similar way which to left does. Words only mean what people use them to mean, but applying the word "fascist" toward Pinochet seems like an absurd historical abuse of the word to me.
Like I said earlier, Pinochet has about as much in common with Hitler and Mussolini as Hitler and Mussolini do with Louis XIV or Henry VIII - nothing.
>>77629589
Perhaps even the spread of christianity, if you buy into the slave morality ideas of nietzsche
Wed all be in ethnic folk religions that had no impulse to become universalist, thus no reformation, and no enlightenment
We european tribes would band together in a confederacy, without giving up our identity
>>77629728
>All her heroes were nordic, masculine ubermensch literally redpilling the fuck out of everyone in earshot.
>>77629657
Good man...
Read the protocols of the elders of zion...it's a myth in the classical sense, but it's damn telling
>>77621983
No m8.
Libertarianism has never been edgy, and I've been one.
I know that you think it's the default endpoint of rationalism. But it's not. It's just another system.
I rejected it because it doesn't work. All of society affects the other parts, and practicality is more important than idealism.
Freedom is a worthy goal, but it's not the only goal, and if you make it your only goal, you'll lose it along with everything else that's good.
>>77629633
Check out Bertrand de Jouvenel, or Spanish Carlist philosophy. It's the main sources for my "reactionary liberalism".
>>77629728
So were bolsheviks
Jew is by blood
>>77629375
How do you define a constitution?
>>77629771
That's fair
>>77629300
>Libertarianism is the auxiliary line of communism. At the same time the Marxists converge on the media and academia in order to transform them into central organs of cultural reproduction for the revolutionary ideology, economic liberalism acts on the political sphere by unleashing market forces that destroy the intermediary institutions that stand between the individual and the State.
Couldn't have said it better myself. The power centers did the same thing with revolutionary-Hegelianism - for example, funding the "new left" in America during the 60s and 70s, and pulling the rug out from under them when they had achieved the desired objective (Warren court "protected classes" decisions, LBJs "great society" welfare state, destruction of private unions to be replaced with all-powerful civil services, etc.)
I agree with libertarianism on most things, but I agree with worker's rights (since working 12 hour shifts at $3/hour is pretty fucked up) amd environmentalism (since no forests, trash everywhere, and s moggy air is a shit place to live in).
I agree with nationalism and if a state wants to have socialist programs, then they can do whatever they want, but the federal government should have no say in any of this.
>>77630227
The attempt to systemically constrain political power. Which is nothing more than a solecism - republicanism, and democracy, is a lie.
>>77629953
I'm not going to get into a drawn out discussion...I'll post this on ayn for your reading pleasure
http://therightstuff.biz/2012/12/30/the-tragedy-of-objectivism/
>>77630159
In the mail
>>77630227
I differ to the other guy who replied
>>77630416
Useful idiots
Or, since they're fucking jews, maybe they knew exactly what was happening
>>77630527
Those are pretty small points.
What about democracy, do you like it, want to replace it?
If you could shut down the Internet, would you? Haha
Back at the beginning
Can someone help help me with a a question
For we post libertarians. What do we do about drugs?
This had been one of my favorite threads. Thanks everyone.
I grew up conservative. I then progressed to lolbertarianism until I figured out it was as absurd an ideology as communism. I am older now and my experiences with the world have made me wiser. It has always kinda of been taboo to question certain things like Capitalism and Democracy. I can't say that I believe in either one anymore. We have been conditioned to loathe alternative ideas. I am a Nationalist now. I don't give a fuck about being called a racist or xenophobe.
>>77630527
Do you actually believe that if all federal and local governments repealed minimum wage and overtime laws, that people would actually work 12 hour shifts at $3/hour?
In China, sure - but here in America? Or most any European country, for that matter?
>>77628065
Acá nos pasó igual, éramos moralmente estables hasta que el liberalismo atacó con todo.
Ahora con lo de Macri muchos tuvieron una falsa esperanza de volver a los tiempos de antaño. No se dieron cuenta de que el tipo era de la escuela de políticos del 90... Ahora tendríamos suerte si no terminamos como la URSS. Lo único que puedo hacer es educar con el título de docente que poseo, pero a veces las decisiones de mis superiores y colegas me dan ganas de saltar desde el Taipei 101
>>77630624
It's alright dude, I don't either. I am a monarchist reactionary anyway, but every time I see your OP pic my blood pressure goes up.
Calling them out for being jewish isn't going to make the economic calculation problem go away. It isn't going to make mysticism a viable economic program.
It is also misleading to all the stormweenie newfags who come away thinking that these people are jewish saboteurs with nothing interesting to say.
>>77631401
Read julius evola haha
>>77631265
An interesting question.
A secure ruler should have no interest in what substances his subjects choose to put into their bodies, excepting if it effects their economic performance, since a secure sovereign will be taxing at the Laffer curve in order to maximize their revenue.
If the cost of abolishing certain drugs is less than the economic loss of allowing them, a sovereign should banish them; otherwise, not.
Lee Kuan Yew and his son seem to have done a pretty good job of abolishing virtually all drugs in Singapore, but then, it has a bit of a geographic advantage. Not sure how well that applies to a large continent such as the Americas or Europe.
>>77631409
Yup, exactly.
It's kinda scary living in a place where national socialism is literally illegal
One major thing for me was the lack of Libertarians commenting on culture. I rarely disagree with them on economics or policy, but I started to dislike the fact that libertarians refused to assign value judgements to things, and would only go as far as lobbying for the freedom they hoped for. While I still want that freedom, it's nearly useless when we're involved in a culture war. I didn't want to live in a society in which everything was free, but SJW shit ran rampant unchecked. All the freedoms in the world were less appealing to me than a culture in which I wasn't demonized and held to a double standard. I wanted to get behind a movement which would INTENTIONALLY call that shit out and work against it. Helps that the current manifestation is also somewhat interested in protecting rights.
>>77631444
>Do you actually believe that if all federal and local governments repealed minimum wage and overtime laws, that people would actually work 12 hour shifts at $3/hour?
Do you really believe that employers with no restrictions wont take advantage of that?
It was 1874 before a state passed a law limiting women and childrens(!!!) workday to 10 hours. Look back at 19th century America to see how exaclty that works out. I would almost guess that you either A) do not work or B) have a comfy white collar job. Get a job in a manufacturing plant or as a machinist like myself and you will realize really quick that companies will do whatever they can to make a profit. This is the fallacy of the lolbertarians.
>>77632062
I feel for you brother. I am afraid we are not far behind.
>>77620875
For me it's simple: after being demonized by leftists as if I were some horrible monster for wanting people to live freely, I went over the opposite end and decided to support anything that results in leftists getting BTFO
>>77631857
I know what you mean. Mises in particular was an intellectual giant. But even he didn't seem to quite understand that libertarianism only truly works in a microcosm, protected by a strong, secure sovereign who severely upholds the rule of law.
I used to be a hardcore ancap, now I'm a little bit more realistic even though I still support economic liberalism (not unrestrained, however)
A strong nation cannot exist without an authority figure, and egalitarianism is a sham. Inequality and elitism are generally desirable things, I think.
I'm not sure yet of where I'm going after letting go of the libertarian/ancap utopia, though. Maybe I should read some Evola.
>>77631857
That's fair
But But be careful, I already got yelled at for using that quote.
Mises was chased out out of Europe by hitler. Why?
Because austrian free market enables internationalist corperations to achieve more power
That's That's my critique
>>77631959
Hmm, good points,
Without getting rid of drugs. How would you get rid rid of drug culture?
>>77632148
I work a blue-collar job, 8 hours a day, 5 days a week - more if I can get overtime - but I know that many people with white-collar jobs work 10 hour days, plus weekends.
The reason you and I don't work 10 hours a day has nothing to do with laws. It has everything to do with accumulated wealth, technology, and thus the fact that we don't have to, if we choose not to.
Unfortunately, this also means that if I wish to work 50 hours a week or more on a consistent basis, I need work two jobs. Which I am not willing to do - but I would work 60 hours a week at my current job if they would let me.
>>77632093
Good critique
Libertarian social policy plus marxist economic policy equals.....fucked
>>77632278
Hahaha
>>77632408
Yep, in context, Mises obviously preferred liberalism (capitalism), but he also obviously wasn't some anti-western civ saboteur.
Austrian free-market system has never been fully tried. The credit bubble economy that we have now, the cultural marxism, the hair-brained democracy, all these things were despised by the austrians and it is completely unfair to blame laissez-faire for things that interventionist states and central banks have caused.
>>77632148
>Do you really believe that employers with no restrictions wont take advantage of that?
So in short, no, they wouldn't. And where they can, they already do. For example, white-collar workers being "salaried" for 40 hours a week, but being given work for 70 hour weeks, is common. Of course, their pay is adjusted by the market to meet the 70 hour demand; not the fallacious 40 hour demand. So the laws are virtually irrelevant for all parties involved.
The reason we passed laws regulating child-workers had nothing to do with what society "wanted", for example. Those laws became feasible when the wealth and capital accumulation of society reached a point where children no longer needed to work, in order for their families to obtain their basic daily caloric needs.
To assume the opposite is to reverse cause and effect.
>>77632993
Well yea, obviously.
But the world isn't ideal, so we have to create a "safe space" for austrian economics to operate
>>77620875
>>77632993
>but he also obviously wasn't some anti-western civ saboteur.
Neither was Rothbard. But the power centers took the ideas they liked - such as open borders, which augmented their political power - and discarded the rest. (Although even Rothbard himself in his later life seemed to sour on the concept.)
Rothbard, and many other libertarians, formed alliances with the left in this regard. Which worked out very well for leftism; not so well for libertarianism.
>>77633533
Meme stolen....nom nom nom
I've never seen a rockwell meme before
Seig Heil
>>77633295
Nah, we just have to buy land from third world countries and convince strongmen that it is ultimately more profitable for them to uphold property rights and sound money.
Some of this is already happening.
Supposedly the guy in my picture likes austrian economics and he owns the wealthiest per capita country in the world.
So, it really isn't all that bad. The major problem is untangling people's notions of democracy and liberty. Libertarians need to drop the republicanism and start establishing links to autocracy/monarchy/reactionary forms. Those types of governments are just mirrors of private property ownership, unlike republicanism, which is collectively owned national property.
>>77633894
I've shaken his hand before, good guy
How do we deal with the bilderberg group and the un and nato and international banking and the media ect ect ect
>>77633533
Why does /pol/ think that all libertarians are just some Ayn Rand worshiping, globalist, open borders activists. A lot of the "libertarians" here just want smaller government and a more free market, which is already similar to paleo-conservatism.
>>77634075
We dont, there was debate on Ayn specifically in this thread, so we were just a shitting on her
>>77634075
And a lot of communists just want a classes, stateless society. But it doesn't seem to turn out that way, does it?
>>77634254
Burn
>>77634068
I honestly have no idea. We're talking about spinning some big ships around, the arcs are going to be large and rocky.
>>77634254
Avoiding the point. A smaller scope of government is much more realistic and attainable, since it has actually happened in the US, unlike a successful communist anything.
I actually skipped the libertarian phase and curiously dipped into it. Now I'm just conflicted.
>>77634480
I'm paleoconservative now, which retains a few libertarian principles so it was a more logical step for myself than to become Nazi.
>>77634475
We need a goebbels to shut their lying mouths
>>77634480
Ok, so you have smaller government.
Now corperations have more control.
The only reason you want smaller government, is because strong government is benefitting niggers.
You want a strong patriarchal government, you just don't want it to be degenerated bro.
>>77634598
Look up dark Enlightenment, and just enjoy the ride
>>77634068
For all intent and purpose, the media and international finance are part of the bureaucracy. The "extended civil-services", if you will. It's really just the logical extension of republicanism. Install a secure ruler, and finance isn't a problem - the media, however, is a little more tricky.
A truly secure sovereign with the ring of Sauron wouldn't need to worry about the media at all.
But in the real world, where sovereignty is always less than perfectly secure, a sovereign probably does need to restrict and censor all political discourse. As is done in China, or effectively done in Singapore, or Russia. Or Pinochet's Chile.
But now I'm just repeating Moldbug.
>>77634655
Remember.
Daddy Buchanan wrote a bomb ass book about Churchill's unnecessary war, secret fasc
>>77634480
>A smaller scope of government is much more realistic and attainable, since it has actually happened in the US
A probably many libertarians have (not saying you do) as well as cuckservatives is that they either believe this is attainable without a heavy white majority. They are fools.
>>77634890
>Now corperations have more control.
Not exactly true. Corporations have become so big through government intervention in the market. By getting rid of the government subsidies and interference you would be forcing these corporations to actually compete with one another.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdLBzfFGFQU
>>77634998
No problem there
Again, I fucking love goebbels
https://youtu.be/-M6FXuFPayY
>>77620875
They're populist idiots who never had either moral principle or an iota of critical thinking ability to begin with. I don't know why you'd ever care to hear the opinion of an autistic mob.
>>77634480
I also want a small (but strong and secure) government, but the central problem is in keeping it in this configuration.
You will notice, for example, that although you point out that USG was once small, it has since grown quite large. And grown. And grown. A similar phenomena has occurred in virtually all governments on the planet, almost without reversal. And when it does reverse, it is only in the short term; the long-run pattern is clear.
The problem is that (classical) liberalism, republicanism, and libertarianism, unwittingly create the conditions for perpetual bureaucratic growth. You could reset USG to its initial state; the result would be the same. And this time around, it won't take 200 years to get to where it is now.
This is why a secure sovereign, with down-ward flowing authority, and a complete rejection of liberalism and republicanism is necessary.
If you want a libertarian society, as I do - don't follow Madison, Jefferson, or Hamilton. Follow Pinochet.
>>77635272
Such a simple answer, why hasn't hasn't it been tried before?
Oh, because they cheat and swindle, and corrupt politicians.
Burn down the Reichstag, put in hitler 2.0 and let's play ball....fuck mcdonalds
>>77620875
Still just a small gov libertarian following Austrian economics
>>77635316
Former libertarians?
Typically every elitists, high morals which led them away from libertarianism, and so fucking autistic that they couldn't stop at ancap, so they go to ancient Rome and shit, or articulate that hitler is the good guy
The fuck are you talking about? Our autism is our strength. Übermensch bitch.
>>77635214
I would say it's possible. A lot of the socialist programs that came during the 1930s when the US was almost 90% white. The problem is is that nigs and spics have been getting welfare forever and don't want to lose it, they've been taught by the system to abuse these programs.
>>77635276
Can't say I share your affection for Goebbels. The idea of "official" knowledge creeps me out. That's why I desire a power structure where the sovereign has no _incentive_ to fill my mind with gaseous republican emissions and lies.
In Pinochet's Chile, for example, you could talk about almost anything openly. Just don't talk about overthrowing the government, and you'll be fine.
>>77635737
There's anything "high" about a morality in which might = right? *Really* Hungary?
Oh wait you're meme'ing. Ite. Meme away.
>>77635572
Step 1, realize that democracy in incompatible with austrian economics.
Step 2 realize that allowing muds into your country violates your freedom, because they will work against jt
Step 3. Reject the myth of liberty equality and diversity (your still following austrian economics at this point)
Them crank up the gas chambers and throw in everyone who god king farange doesn't like....and now you're a reactionary
>>77635903
That's That's a fair critique.
I <3 Goebbels still tho
>>77636065
>Step 2 realize that allowing muds into your country violates your freedom, because they will work against jt
You're right. Even if we were in a libertarian society I would still agree that we as a sovereign nation decide who comes into our country.
>>77636065
1. Not necessarily but I understand where you are coming from.
2. Many libertarian thinkers do not support open borders. I don't for cultural reasons.
3. Don't confuse philosophy with law
>>77635802
>I would say it's possible
I disagree, especially if current trends persist.
> A lot of the socialist programs that came during the 1930s when the US was almost 90% white
Adding more immigrants from the 3rd world isn't going to help our your chances
>The problem is is that nigs and spics have been getting welfare forever and don't want to lose it, they've been taught by the system to abuse these programs
They already have the similar voting patterns in their home countries, you are not going to turn these people into small government loving Americans. Stop buying the natural conservative bullshit.
>>77636401
out*
>>77635987
Might does make right though, does it not?
Get out of your slave morality fatass.
Hungary. Yes. You don't know a thing about my country without google, fucking retard. Google hungary and immigration. See how we deal with shit in the old soviet block, punta.
>>77636372
Economic law*
What are some good books to start with if I want to get more familiar with dark enlightenment, reactionary and traditionalist thought?
>>77636330
Hoppe for the win
>>77636479
It does not, but you already know that. Enjoy your memes~
>>77636372
1. Yes, read read Hans hermann hoppe
2. Incompatible with private property, again, hoppe red pill is so sweet
3. When you have to set into law Lawal philosophical concept, you know that it is probably contrary to human nature
>>77634075
because the two biggest groups here are natsocs and libertarians
how would you subvert the place that made donald trump the nominee? drive wedges
>>77636530
Understand economics first. Historical context as well it terms of what holds a successful society up - common law, non arbitrary rule etc.
>>77636890
I've read about the austrian school.
What would you recommend?
>>77636530
I went as as a ancap to
Democracy the god that failed by Hoppe
Liberty or equality by Kuehnelt-Leddihn
I dwelled in monarchist libertarian type shit for awhile
Mein kampf
Zweites Buch
Elders of zion
Hitlers War
End nazi phase
Platos republic
Shit ton of reactosphere stuff online
Right now on Julius evola...I like it alot
>>77620875
alt right/national socialist ideology tells failures things they wish were true so they can offload their own faults on various other groups; simple ideology for simple, hateful people.
>>77636591
Melian Dialogue
Or do they not teach anything useful in america these days?
I went to school there for awhile. Literally toxic.
>>77637089
>hateful people.
We could only be so lucky to be a Marxist like you.
>>77635479
>but the central problem is in keeping it in this configuration.
I would suggest powerful restrictions through an amendment. I know it would be almost impossible, but that's the only way I see ever stopping government growing. Another problem I see is the incentives we have for our representatives are all wrong. There are no term limits and promising free shit gets you very far in a democracy. We should implement term limits to incentivize representatives to actually do good. Switzerland is very good example of a libertarian country with small government. They do interfere here and there but they are much more capitalistic than the US.
>Follow Pinochet
Doesn't Chile literally have a female socialist president right now
>>77620875
I used to be a liberal, a cucked sjw liberal.
I loved equality, and I hated privileged white folks (even though I'm white).,
I initially made the switch to libertarianism, because I started to disagree with the method of equality pandering that the left did. In libertarianism, people are equal in rights and freedoms; equal treatment federally, anyway. I was hooked on it, because I like what capitalism was doing, providing services before I asked, because they anticipated; and the economically responsible were good at anticipating my demand, because the better you were at it, the bigger you were, and the cheaper your products would be. It was win-win for both parties. I'm still largely capitalist in nature.
The switch happened when I hit my twenties; I was depressed. I lived in a fairly conservative Canadian town, one of the last bastions of Maritime culture in North America. I even have a rare accent that people think I'm just trying to mock them if they're from England, or even Americans will think I'm mocking them, because they think I'm English or Irish. I lived in the states for 5 years, and I was homesick, and not the easy to handle kind; I was depressed over there, so I came home, and that made me affectionate toward anything to do with my home town. I did not want to, and I never want to, leave my hometown ever again. i love it where I am. But like I said, I've been depressed as of late, and it's because of the lack of honor.
I rationalized it as a high expectation, low gain, type situation. We have a history of calling out people by their surnames; like if you were a ruffian with a drinking problem, you were a Ross or a Swim; if you were nosy and obnoxious, you were probably a Nickerson; if you went into people's garbage, you were most likely a "Penny", and if you were a penny pincher, you were a Perry. We have customs and traditions like that, and families were big; we provided for families in any way we could, even as children. Contd-
>>77637069
Thanks. Would you advise me to read all of those in order to get a clear idea? I've read Hoppe, now getting interested in monarchism
What is Evola's philosophy?
>>77622134
What is your opinion on Franco?
Did anyone in your family live under him? What do they think?
>>77637204
A drama has absolutely nothing to do with moral fact. And you can't establish "I hit you with a pot over the head therefore im right lamo" is a moral fact.
>>77637089
If that is what you believe
Then you are like me about a year ago.
Open your mind. See what they have to say, don't be afraid to afraccept that shit happens in war that was not according to set ideology
Be prepared to a find out that the victory always gets to tell the story
>>77636992
Anything from successful or the failing parts of history, you will start to notice more liberty less poverty, not entirely that simple but it's a general trent. Patterns I believe are key to understanding, in economic terms, law terms, government policies you can be really cynical about because you end up seeing the brown envelopes on the end of every policy
>>77637401
Families were "THE" thing. You know, it was a purpose in life to have a family; and even if you didn't have a family, you had a career; you weren't someone who builds houses for money, you were a carpenter; you weren't someone who catches fish for money, you were a Fisherman; money was not an issue; people would help out with the boat, and they'd work, because they liked to; it was their purpose in life, their honor. Honor was something that pushed me into nationalism, because all throughout my life, it was the nation which was disparaged because "no human is illegal", and religion was disparaged because "It's an opiate of the masses", and race because "It's a social construct". To be honest, race wasn't a part of life until THEY brought it into question, until THEY attacked it. They just dont like my race, or my religion; they like Islam; they don't like my country, they like China. Theyre self-haters, yet they love everything else that has no bearing of honor in our society, simply BECAUSE it has no honor; their egalitarian nature and my honor can't co-exist. You either have honor or you have equality, and I'd take honor everytime, because it gives me purpose in life. It's the reason I'm turning my life around, because I now have a purpose in life.
>>77637424
Check out anarcho-monarchism.com that will quench your thirst thirst for awhile, as will the liberty or equality book (free pdf on mises)
But once your mind is open to alternate forms of government, and you begin rejecting liberal thought, that's when I took in the alternative right nazi fascist stuff. Really top Kek shit.
But radical traditionalism by evola is more mature I think. But But I don't know if you can just jump into that without being a fascist first...
Evola was one of government Mussolinis top philosophers, and he worked for the ss in the Thule society doing cool ass shit
>>77637394
>I would suggest powerful restrictions through an amendment.
Doesn't work. Didn't work. Won't work. Can't work. The original constitution was pretty explicit about enumeration of powers. I don't know how you can create more explicit restrictions than that. We have since abrogated that principle, and entered an era of limitless government. Reinstating enumerated powers, or any other amendment is meaningless - the result will be the same. Because the constitution - the supreme law of the land - will always be interpreted by those in power, in order to serve their interests and values.
>Doesn't Chile literally have a female socialist president right now
Hah, a reasonable criticism. Indeed, Pinochet was essentially hand-picked by socialist president Allende to run the military, shortly before he was removed in the coup. Of course, there was plenty of international pressure for Chile to transition to a Democracy as well. Pinochet should have ruled for life, and then replaced by a son. Unfortunately for Chile, this has not been the case.
But fair enough - if I have to pick a great mind to follow, then I choose Lee Kuan Yew of Singapore.
>>77637541
But if you do what I say so you do don't get hit again...well, I won the argument, didn't i?
>>77638368
I'm not gonna do jack shit senpai - you can kill me, but 2+2 won't stop equaling 4 no matter how many people you throw tantrums at.
>>77638543
Ahh, I see. ..
You aren't arguing realism vs liberalism in the international arena, you are talking about ethics on an individual level, correct?
>>77637394
>term limits
Doesn't matter - Congress doesn't run USG; the civil services does. And the bureaucratic class is of course virtually for life, by definition. Not that we would want it any other way - you need competent, skilled people to run your government - don't want to be replacing them every few years.
>>77638677
Ethics is universal for anyone who's not a fucktarded relativist.
>>77638677
Because if that is the case, I regret to inform you that god is dead and we have killed him.
Due to that, we are in an age of nihilism.
We have supplanted western civilization for materialistic individualism.
How do we resurrect god, so that 2+2 once again is age question even worth answering
>>77638829
>Ethics is universal for anyone who's not a fucktarded relativist.
This has to be one of the most asinine statements I've ever read.
>>77637204
They do not. Our schools are indoctrination centers that teach little to nothing of practical value. By graduation, most people around here can read an 8th grade level book and can understand geometry. The best and brightest students share the same classes with literally profoundly retarded people.
>>77638829
Look up slave versus master morality, I think a little nietzsche will do ya right.
Make them read Moldbug. He is the perfect gateway drug towards reaction.
>>77620875
The non-aggression principle is an untenable moral precept.
(Don't) Embrace the N.A.P.
https://youtu.be/jcUZrDX5P7A
>>77638974
Can confirm.
>>77638956
Relativist detected.
If you want a revision - "Ethics is universal (period)" accompanied by "Relativists are fucktarded" as a separate proposition ;)
>>77638336
>Doesn't work. Didn't work. Won't work. Can't work.
Nowhere in the constitution does it say that the federal government is not allowed to interfere in the markets. The constitution was more in favor of protecting personal freedoms and states rights rather than having an unfettered market. The founding fathers weren't particularly libertarian or pro-free markets anyways.
>Pinochet should have ruled for life, and then replaced by a son.
This is what I don't understand about people who want free markets and a dictatorship. The system only works if the leader is good, and those are rare. The son could grow up to be a full-on marxist. I would rather create a system where it doesn't matter how shit a leader is.
Great thread guys we should do this more often.
The good thing about it as well is the shills don't comprehend what we're on about most of the time
>>77639046
I've read the entire Genealogy. I prefer Kant ;)
>>77639090
Sup Sweden.
Tell the golden one I said hi
>>77639095
I like the one with goofy about the gop
>>77620875
I studied business at school, I realised that while the free market can solve a lot of things there is no way to stop large conglomerates and cartels of businesses from directing the course of the market essentially ruining shit for everyone. Thus some kind of government is necessary in order to control this along with other things such as immigration which will push down wages.
>>77639117
You don't get it
Due to the liberal enlightenment, we have replaced spirituality for rationality. The age of reason.
That has killed god.
God was the foundation of our values and society.
Now all of it is in ruins, and we live in a godless world of our own design.
I want objectivism, but we need Übermensch for that. Ride the tiger baby.
>>77639168
Yea dude, I'm having fun. Let's do real convos more often
>>77638699
Fair enough
>>77639196
Meh, that's fair I guess, we all have preferences
>>77639582
There's nothing irrational about belief in God.
You're in the shallows of this conversation mane - read Kant, read Leibniz - there's a fuck ton you're straight missing.
>>77639332
But you rejected socialism too...and found economic national socialism?
>>77639209
He is in Ireland now magyar-bro.
Btw, Goulash is tasty.
>>77639135
>Nowhere in the constitution does it say that the federal government is not allowed to interfere in the markets.
I'm not trying to be rude, but you don't seem to understand the historical significance of "enumerated powers". The original conception of the constitution was that the federal government couldn't do anything which was not _explicitly_ given to it, by the constitution. We have of course since discarded that principle, slowly, since 1788; it was formally abolished in 1933.
The problem is that those in power will always "interpret" the constitution, exactly however they wish to interpret it. Liberals will discover "revelations" within the texts; conservative will get what they want by proclaiming that the constitution "is not a suicide pact". The constitution is nothing more than ink on a piece of paper; it doesn't mean anything, except to those who hold the power to interpret it.
>I would rather create a system where it doesn't matter how shit a leader is.
This sounds EXACTLY like something I would have said, a number of years ago. Basically, this is Historical and Dialectical Materialism in a nutshell - and I wasn't a marxist, but a near an-cap libertarian.
The answer is complex, but if you don't mind shifting through several thousand pages worth of text, the answer lies in Moldbug. Sorry I can't give a more succinct answer, but it's really not possible.
>>77639821
No, belief in god is highly rational. But that doesn't change the fact that society has lost lost its spiritually.
But I'll take your word for it. I I haven't read Kant in a long time. I'll have have to dust her off
>>77639966
Ethnic german, raised in austria, currently living in hungary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reAvWtL4ecE
This speech was the single event that sealed my conversion.
Really though it was a long journey that involved discovering spirituality, living among working class people and realizing the real struggles of poverty, and reading works by Hoppe, Carlyle, Evola, etc.
