What would Europe be like if Christianity never gained hold?
>>77610397
Conquered by Islam because there would've been nothing to unite the small warring tribes
>>77610499
This.
>>77610499
If there was no Christianity there would be no Islam
Also there would be no Judaism because Judaism caused Christianity in the first place
>>77610837
A perfect world
>>77610499
Nope. The Franks and Byzantines would still exist and still fight them.
>>77610499
fpbp
There probably would be still a Roman Empire that could've discovered America. No Dark Age. We would be in space right now.
>>77610837
I thought we were working off the assumption that Christianity exists but simply isn't present in Europe in any significant sense
>>77611327
>Christianity killed the Roman Empire
I want this meme to end
>>77610397
sage. another reddit-tier burger thread.
>>77611564
it doesn't even make a modicum of sense. Germanic Pagans destroyed the Roman Empire lol
>>77610397
Islamic or a third world shit hole thanks to Paganism. Christianity literally brought Europe into prosperity.
>>77610397
Like this.
Christianity made us weak and rotted our Empire from within.
>>77611688
Romans destroyed themselves
>>77611688
When Islam destroys western civilization will it have been their fault or ours for allowing them in and appeasing them every step of the way?
>>77611759
holy shit do you retards actually believe this? my sides! spergs.
>>77611919
It's a religion of slaves. It could barely defend itself against the first onslaught and it's only gotten worse since then. Much, much worse.
>>77612172
It was Salazar's religion, you idiot, the only Porto of any note btw
>>77612172
Shut up homo
>>77611047
Stop being retarded
>>77611688
>Germanic Pagans destroyed the Roman Empire lol
IIRC it was Christianized Visigoghs that did that.
>>77610499
>Christian kingdoms were united and never went to war with each other
only reason islam spread so far is because cuckolics crusaded constantinople
>>77612518
suuuuuure. btw, visigoths were arians
>>77612241
And? It was the religion of over 90% of all portuguese people. It's still a cancer when it comes to dealing with foreign invaders. Loving your enemies instead of fighting them doesn't actually work.
>>77612289
Sound argument.
>>77610499
Yeah but if Christianity never gains influence, and for this to happen you require massive changes, there would be no Islam as it is today.
As a matter of fact if Christianity exists but isn't in Europe you just get annexed by christian sandniggers and steppe gooks instead
>>77612612
literally never heard of crusades. I guess you iberia niggers were cucked under islam for too long. should have left you there
>>77612531
eastern rome was losing land to the muslims way before the catholics turned up
>>77612771
and... Rome lost lands when it was Pagan as well, to various different groups
>>77612569
>btw, visigoths were arians
Arianism is a Christian subsect.
>>77610397
Judging by the late Roman Empire probably a lot of minor cult religions such as Sol Invictus. Roman Paganism as it once was was already dying by the time of the late Roman Empire in favour of monotheistic and pseudo monotheistic religions like the cult of Sol Invictus. At the end of the day it wouldn't be too different except there would have been no crusades and every different group would call god by a different name.
>>77612978
not really, since they didnt think Christ was divine you idiot. so, basically like every other non-christian group
>>77610499
>unite the small warring tribes
that never actually happened.
>>77613107
U never happend
>>77610499
fpbp
>>77613088
>knew of Jesus Christ and his god
>worshipped Jesus Christ and his god
>are not Christians because of some no true scotsman shit
Sure thing, buddy.
>>77610499
?
When was Europe ever united?
This is a meme. Plenty of Christians in Europe sided with the Muslims over their fellow Christians at different points of time.
>>77613255
>no true Scotsman shit
Buddy there are rules to Christianity
>>77610397
>that image
god i hate kikes and sandniggers
>>77613255
> knows nothing about beliefs of arianism
> opinion discarded
>>77610397
Monotheism is a historical necessity.
>>77613432
this image was made by a kike
>>77613422
>implying there's a sect that's objectively true
>so much in denial his cuck cult ruining Rome
>>77613478
You got BTFO pretty hard man.
Should probably leave the thread now.
>>77613647
But there is a sect that is objectively true.
>>77610397
>No Christianity
>no churches
>no higher education
>loss of classical knowledge
>would not be able to wage a crusade
>no islamic knowledge
>conquered by islam
>>77613924
people who larp paganism very rarely take it seriously, and are even less willing to kill and die for it
>>77613924
on the other hand without christianity there would be no basis for
>feminism
>individual rights/equality
>marxism
>>77614543
all those things came out of french revolution which was atheistic and murdered Christians. try harder, burger
>>77614792
if it weren't for centuries of christians hammering the meme that the individual man has a inherit worth we would end up in a caste society like india or nigger-tier tribes going ooga booga where da persian women at
>>77613321
T. Lowered standards college fag
>>77610499
Fpbp
>>77610837
Christianity still exists in this stupid hypothetical, just not in "Europe"
Islam's development had nothing to do with Christianity's spread or success in the Roman Empire
>>77611047
The byzantines and franks converted to Christianity because exclusive monotheism>inclusive pantheism
They would've just converted to Islam instead
>>77611327
>>77611759
The Roman Empire was already corrupt and politically unstable by the time of Caesar, and rapidly becoming more effete and decadent.
The empire was on its last legs by the time of Constantine and had spent centuries in constant civil war and military coups
The list of good emperors is a very short one.
It's really kind of a meme that the Roman Empire was this monolithic, all powerful superstate from 1 AD until the 400s AD when it suddenly collapsed for some reason. The three centuries preceding adoption of Christianity can fairly be characterized as the extended death-throes of the Republic, even though conquests were made, society progressed, and outstanding individuals were able to slow decline, most of the story is of a gradual falling apart at the seams. The borders of Rome ending at the Rhine, Sudan, and Syria, for instance, was determined in the reign of Augustus, the second emperor. The only major success outside their borders after that was trajan's against dacia, and then it was endless civil war followed by endless waves of barbarian refugees in the midst of constant social decadence. Christianity neither caused nor prevented any of those factors
>>77615186
fuck, that american education. gotta love it
>>77612760
>should have left you there
You did. England helped shit in the Reconquista.
The Crusades came way too late and were way too weak. We had already lost tons of land. Namely, the fucking Iberian Peninsula. A lot of them, specially later ones, were failures.
>Clashes and raids on bordering Andalusian lands did not keep the Christian kingdoms from battling among themselves or allying with Muslim kings. Some Muslim kings had Christian-born wives or mothers. Some Christian champions, like El Cid, were contracted by taifa kings to fight against their neighbours. Indeed, El Cid's first battle experience was gained fighting for a Muslim state against a Christian state. At the Battle of Graus in 1063, he and other Castilians fought on the side of al-Muqtadir, Muslim sultan of Zaragoza, against the forces of Ramiro I of Aragon. There is even an instance of a Crusade being declared against another Christian king in Iberia.
Wonderful unity.
>>77613541
Your religion was made by a kike.
>>77615186
Western Individualism dates back to Athens in the 6th century BC mate. Only in the industrial era did western individualism begin to be interpreted as having anything to do with obscene and absurd concepts such as racial egalitarianism or the personhood of womankind, and these concepts didn't really take off until Marxism replaced christianity as the universal state religion of Europe in the 1950s
>>77616163
*tips fedora*
>>77615753
>They would've just converted to Islam instead
top kek, no nation converted peacefully to the religion of peace
>>77616171
and without christian monks preserving it and the church making classical learning a fundamental part of its criteria european egalitarianism would have taken longer to become mainstream or not happen at all
>>77616163
And the pre-christian Iberians and Celtiberians did the same thing when the Romans invaded, a refusal to unite in the face of invaders is in your hot Latin blood m88.
Christian unity was not monolithic, but it inculcated a sense of identity, us vs them, which, though it was not terribly effective offensively, was able to stiffen resistance at the high-water marks of Muslim invasion, in the West Tours, in the east, Vienna. In both cases, the breakwater caused the wave gradually to recede.
I think the very fact that many Europeans converted and joined the Islamic invasions (both east and west) shows that ethnic, cultural, or racial solidarity was not enough to resist mohammedan fanaticism, and I can think of few other factors than faith once those three are eliminated. There was no real concept of nationalism. Upon what values would pagan Europe have based its resistance to Islam?
>>77616799
so now your beef is not with Christianity but with Ancient Greece. make up your fucking mind
>>77616799
So you're arguing that Marxism is the fault of Christian monks preserving classical knowledge... This is an interesting line of thought
You argue then that the only inoculation against Marxism is what, oriental collectivism and ignorance?
>>77616948
Defensively I don't think christianity mattered. Caliphate invades pagan eastern rome, eastern rome will send all its got to stop them, moors invade pagan franks, franks will send all they got to stop them. Its not like it was a multinational effort to halt kebab.
>>77616647
Didn't the mongols? At least the western ones
>>77617334
Tiny mongol elite converted, because they ruled over a majority muslim subjects
>>77617290
ummm, except it was. the Byzantine Empire was attacked, and the crusaders came from France, Germany, England, and Norway
>>77617290
Pagan sassanid Persia and the pagan eastern Roman Empire fought each other for centuries going back and forth over Syria and Anatolia. In the end, Islam conquered both.
You're not thinking about this dispassionately. In 700 AD what reason does Sigurd the Frank have to fight against a multinational horde rather than simply swear an oath of fealty and be left in peace, without religion? "his pagan beliefs"? Well why didn't those prevent his adoption of Christianity? His warlike nature? How does the war-cult of Islam not appeal to that very nature?
>>77616948
>Christian unity was not monolithic, but it inculcated a sense of identity, us vs them, which, though it was not terribly effective offensively, was able to stiffen resistance at the high-water marks of Muslim invasion, in the West Tours, in the east, Vienna. In both cases, the breakwater caused the wave gradually to recede.
Invasions made possible by the weakening of the Empire that stood before. Stilicho met the armies of Alaric outside the city of Rome and pushed them back the first time and came back home to jeers and criticism because he dared attacked the poor defenseless migrants (they came with their women and children) on Easter day. Alaric returned to sack the city three times after and christian Rome stood by as christian barbarians destroyed it.
>Upon what values would pagan Europe have based its resistance to Islam?
A strong Empire.
>>77619013
Arians. Again, Arians. Arians who think God made Jesus. lol
>>77617820
>bong education
Islam arose in the 600s, first crusade was late 1000s. Byzantines were fighting arabs for centuries before europe did anything.
>>77617828
First of all by the time arabs invade East Rome and Sassanids they were both monotheist (christian and Zoroastrian respectively). As for your second point, "Sigurd the Frank" would fight because Franks were a proud and warlike people at the time, and did not respond well to conversion by the sword. Now maybe if islam sent missionaries and began to infiltrate the societies it may work over time like christianity did but at that point it would have to morph into something like Christianity is. Which goes to show, they are all semitic filth.
>>77620350
the only reason americans attack christianity is because they have no culture and resent it. country is only a couple hundred years old
