What are your thoughts on capitalism?
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What are your thoughts on capitalism?
>>77263372
its shit, but its still better than the other shit we tried
>>77263372
Needs a lot of fixing.
>>77263372
>poor people
>useful
kek, get back to work faggots.
A Jewish system based around usury.
>>77263372
It's literally freedom. With some government regulations to counteract volatility in the markets, it's great.
>>77265154
/thread
Communism brought me a gulag, capitalism brought me an Iphone.
>>77263372
doesn't the same exact picture work for communism?
>>77265451
>1▶
>>>77263372 (OP)
>doesn't the same exact picture work for communism?
Maybe the problem is not ideology related.
>>77265451
In communism everyone is on the bottom
>>77263966
This. Will need a lot of work to balance freedom with people's rights but it works a hell of a lot better than gulagfest.
>>77263372
Better than Socialism and Communism
>>77265451
Just replace the priests with a commissar.
>>77265627
There's always going to be people more powerful, rich and influential than you no matter the system. What makes capitalism special is there's equal opurtunity to become that rich/powerful/influential person.
>>77263372
Doomed to fail and an unjust and decaying system.
>>77263372
It's shit. But rest of the systems are shit that is also on fire.
>>77263372
The difference is that the people on the bottom can get to the top Unlike the commies
>>77263372
capitalism, as in completely free market is the most efficient system of wealth redistribution, with the money flowing from the less intelligent and less able to their respective counterparts.
>>77263372
A system that has become dominated by Jews and is being managed as greedily as possible to dupe you into accepting wholesale Jewish rule, i.e. Communism.
It's the most beautiful of G-d's creations.
L I B E R T Y
>>77265925
It's just the added illusion.Most will share similiar fate with their ancestors.Few of them surely make it.
It works.Unlike socialism
>>77265154
That's capitalism in its purest form.
But it's never that simple, is it? Look at our tax system. It makes it nigh impossible to climb up without having money to start with because working takes decades.
>31% taxes on the lowest income, 21% VAT on almost everything + a lot of nickle and dime taxes
>can't buy a house because even shitholes cost a ton
>can't rent and save because refugees get priority on affordable housing, there's a 25 year waiting list
>can't get a mortgage without putting up a large part of the cash to show you can pay off the loan for the next 30 years
Meanwhile, our government sends billions to all over the world and plans to build 100k houses to house all the refugees in a more permanent fashion. For example, in Breda they're turning the old tax office into a mega-refugee center where some 600 people will be staying temporarily. This is a common occurrence and these people are getting fed up with being put into housing not fit for a dog, almost as much as the Dutch are getting fed up with having to put up with these ingrates.
>>77266149
You can get to the "top" too in commie land...
The methods a little different however.
>>77263372
There's an entire political division dedicated to thwarting/destroying capitalism and they have never achieved anything ever. Capitalism is still here and will always be here. Get over it.
>>77264797
Adam Smith was a jew too now, wasn't he? JP Morgan too? How do you explain rampant American industrial and commercial ambition when there weren't any jews back then?
>>77265451
Given Soviet Union had forced conscription I'm not sure if the military one would stand, maybe It'd be replaced by the NKGB, MVD or KGB
>>77266559
Burn the houses down, (insert Dutch name here), can't take in refugees if they have nowhere to stay
>>77263372
the pyramid looks pretty much the same with communism only the "we eat for you" class is gone.
>>77266559
Progressive taxation is commie bullshit. It's a plank in their Godless manifesto.
Don't blame a cake for the person who took a big steaming shit on it.
All capitalists deserve to die
communism is the future, it's already looking clear that communism is becoming more popular. We work for everyone and share happiness. This is how we stop depression and suicide.
>>77266618
>There's an entire political division dedicated to thwarting/destroying capitalism and they have never achieved anything ever.
Did the Soviet Union not exist in your world? Capitalism has been around for only 400 years and goes through endless crises, and always will until the inevitable victory of socialism.
>>77263372
That picture has a political structure, not so much an economic one
>>77266559
what you are describing is the taint of socialism and government regulation.
not to mention the government perpetrated banking scheme of taking out loans.
>>77266737
*posted from iFag6 iOs
>>77266737
Pretty sure USSR and Chinkland had and hold higher suicide rates...
>>77266093
>inbreeding niggers blessed with charisma, inteligence and leadership
>child fuckers as moral guides
>fat fucks that polish their rifles all day are brave
>normalfags are useful
>>77266384
>Most will share similiar fate with their ancestors
Smililar genes, eveyone has equal opurtunity but what is the biggest seperator of success in the modern world is IQ.
That's why blacks are doing worse off even though they have the same opertunity.
>>77266737
Put your trip back on so I can filter you.
>>77266745
>Did the Soviet Union not exist in your world?
lol where is it now
The only people who dislike capitalism are those who are too inept and lazy to make it work for themselves.
>>77266737
How sad for you. What's it like to be an entire century behind in thought?
Daily reminder that the american schools of economics is the best form of capitalism
>>77266093
Not representative of capitalism, representative of government.
Ancap here.
>>77266989
looks like a normal person to me
too bad that's not me
>>77267091
just face the facts, communism is the future
>>77266867
I don't own one, I hate apple
>>77266737
>it's popular, therefore it's right
>happiness is a clear, defined and universal goal for every person
>stopping problems out of anyone's control, besides the afflicted person itself
get a load of this guy
>>77266745
>The inevitable victory of socialism
>Which will then itself also go through endless crisis just like capitalism
Capitalism isn't a perfect system but at least in it's pure form (ie, without government bailouts and politically fueled corporatism that infects a lot of capitalist nations today) it is a system based off of hard work and the individual's self perseverance.
>>77266737
Oh look,it's the Finnish communist again.
Dis nigga never stops posting.
>>77267032
Gone because of revisionist traitors and capitalists like Gorbachev. For the world's first socialist state.it accomplished a hell of a lot, despite being under constant attack from the imperialist West, right from 1918 when the US/Britain/France invaded to help the Whites.
>>77263372
Its nice if you are top of the pyramid.
>>77263372
it's like any economic system, fine if people can choose to use it freely, but gets fucked up when the government starts controlling it
state-capitilism's saving grace is that you can't starve millions of people to death with it like state-communism has a habit of doing
>>77266969
IQ is good,but not vital to succes.Connections can exchange avarge IQ.World leaders would by scientists if IQ would be that important....
Life is more complex.
>>77266745
>through endless crises
They have all eneded.Every system has crisis, in fact the commies crumbled after 80 years
>>77266400
Best post.
>>77263372
Well, it looks like I used to be on the "We Kill You" tier, and now I'm on the "We Eat For You" Tier.
Pretty good to be quite honest mi familia
>>77263372
I prefer Strasserism
>>77265154
>implying the issue of volatility is not caused by the government
Ever heared of the recession of 1921? No? That's because no one did anything about it and it fixed itself within months.
>>77267218
Apples hate you too.At least they keep the doctor away...
>>77267316
Not every smart person wants to be a scientist. Many politicians are exscientists and doctors, though.
>>77263372
In a perfect society it would be best to go with socialism from a incentive based working environment, that's the best way to go if the world was perfect. Unfortunately it's not, the world is far from perfect and republicans are great at acknowledging that fact. They recognize that capitalism is the perfect system of commerce because it takes the human factor out of economics. It's survival of the fittest. If joe shoemaker doesnt want to learn the tax laws and the loopholes to get richer then he doesn't deserve to get richer in the system.
>>77267659
>Clinton
Didn't expected that high tbqfh
![csm_Martin_Schulz_2014_9404914c52[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/BV3ZoVL.jpg "csm Martin Schulz 2014 9404914c52[1]")
>>77267659
>most politicians are doctors.
Doctors of Zionism, yes.
>>77267660
i want to know why do you think that, in an ideal society it's better to raise the lowest denominator (society wise), instead of a better wealth redistribution which results in a higher efficiency.
in my opinion a perfect society is much better at using limited resources than what we see today.
>>77263372
It doesn't exist anymore, at least not in the way Marx described it.
Take your retarded image for example. That hierarchy may have been true 100 years ago, but today there are only three levels: the common people, the political class who instruct the people and the ultra-rich who instruct the political class. All of these classes are very "mobile", those of the political class regularly fall down to the common level after a while, and the ultra-rich often go bankrupt. Modern capitalism is a lot more "flat" and flexible than it was in the past, we have the benefit of countless social systems to help the common people, we have workers rights, every luxury you could imagine is at the fingertips of every person in the free world.
Capitalism today hardly resembles the capitalism of the past, the capitalism the socialists fought against and ultimately destroyed, the capitalism that was essentially industrial feudalism. It's all gone now, and the world is honestly better without it.
>>77263372
>zero sum fallacy pic
yep
>>77267905
"Estimated"
Its bullshit
>>77265791
Except for the ruling class
>>77265958
Venezuela's current economic state destroys your pics argument
>>77265451
Here ya go
I don't exactly like it, but I am opportunistic.
I will just play the game, my friend. I advise you do the same.
>>77268498
Venezuela is a capitalist state. Bad Keynesian Capitalism is still capitalism.
>>77267267
The crises of capitalism are a result of the inherent contradictions of the system and the accumulation of capital with a tiny elite, and wasteful production for profit. Socialism eliminates the internal issues by utilising the surplus profit and producing things for use, not sale.
>>77263372
This isn't capitalism
Capitalism has brought more people out of poverty than the government ever will
>>77268683
>State owns the means of production means capitalism now
Lets just redefine capitalism why don't me?
>>77267659
>Obama's 101 result is not on it
Why
>>77268858
>inherent contradictions
>Commies believe that Marx rhethoric has any real basis
You should be removed physically from society.
>>77263372
Piketty showed it is in inherent conflict with democracy, but if properly regulated it can be made beneficially subordinate to democracy.
>>77267659
>G.W. Bush
>124
jesus christ
>>77268950
Socialism has been tried effectively
>>77268858
>crises of capitalism
are a result of government regulation
>wasteful production for profit
you do see that is a contradiction, right? market equilibrium does not allow that.
also socialism shifts towards a planned economy, and that is the actual wasteful production, on a simple notion that you simply can not predict what products will be needed and in what amount.
>>77269297
>Lasted 10 years, and based around war
>Loses war
>Succes
>>77263372
If you attach ladders between each level it would be more accurate, that picture actually describes communism.
>>77269262
Right? GW had an IQ test and turns out he has an IQ of 132
>pretended to be half-retarded
>tricked America into going after oil countries
>his whole family made large amounts of money from the wars
>everyone thinks "Fuck off, retard"
>got away with it all on account of people thinking he was a retard
Meanwhile he's rolling in dough and nobody goes after him
>>77267659
How would you even estimate half of these peoples IQ's, this graph is bullshit
>>77269262
regulation defies one of the basic concepts of capitalism, which is a free market.
on another note, on what authority does democracy come before a economical system?
>>77263372
Look at how a planned economy vs a free market compare and thats my thoughts. Capitalism is not the cause of poverty, its always been the solution, its because of free markets that poverty is the exception not the rule.
Also, modern communists buying Che guvera shirts should already show how stupid they are.
>>77269500
The war was a failure, but that has nothing to do with his socialist policy's which where a success
>>77268498
Yeah Venezuela. As if the means of production belong to the state or the people in Venezuela. Or in Brazil with theirparliamentarian higher class coup detat. Get used to it guys and gals. Capitalism is incompatible with democracy. Never has never will.
>>77265627
Just replace the religious leaders with the ideologues and commissars and get rid of the middle class tier and yes.
>>77266969
So you think you can have the equal oppurtunity at life if you were raised and molded in a cultural enviroment where you were neglected/intoxicated by wrong influence,against someone who had the opposite of it?
Everyone works in capitalism and they work for the same thing: profit. Most dissenters of capitalism are people who are satisfied with their life but lusty over "what the 1% have" (take, for example, the Occupy Wall Street movement who, armed with their complete and utter ignorance over how the government works, camped for a few months outside of a market place, texted to each other on their $600 devices and got weirded out by the local homeless population).
Social inequality is not relative, it is a matter of quality of life. The 1% do not hoard their money, but circulate it.
>>77268571
this
strange how its the people who come from ex communist / socialist states who defend capitalism.
People vote with their feet - are more people moving from north korea to south korea, or vice versa??
you fucking commie faggots never learn do you
>>77263372
It would be nice to have some.
>>77263372
>At the top
>WE YOU RULE
Why yes, we do rule you. You are elected officials after all and if we want you out, we elect you out or call for your resignation through protest or other civil discourse.
So far there was only one system that worked better than capitalism and that was national socialism. The "others" were so afraid of it, an alliance of the relevant capitalist world and communist world was needed to push it back and defeat it. Without helping each other, each would have failed.
>>77263372
>State
>Military
>Church
>capitalism
>>77269500
>based around war
You learned that in highschool?
>>77269308
>>crises of capitalism
>are a result of government regulation
How ignorant do you have to be to believe this?
>market equilibrium does not allow that
Except markets are often out of equilibrium. And then there are other definitions of "wasteful" beyond those considered in economic models, or could be considered market failures, e.g. planned obsolescence.
>>77269555
>Right? GW had an IQ test and turns out he has an IQ of 132
Not even those eminenetly checkable trips make up for the patheticness of the content
>>77269684
>regulation defies one of the basic concepts of capitalism, which is a free market.
Truly free markets don't exist, and can't exist. Externalities and the tendency towards monopoly require regulation if a market is to be efficient in even the academic sense.
You seem like one of those people who tell others to take econ 101, but you should probably take 201 since you seem to be in favor something you know little about.
>>77269684
>on what authority does democracy come before a economical system?
Even if you don't "believe in" democracy, there is no economic system without government. On basic grounds of human wellbeing and efficiency I prefer democracy to other forms.
You're free to prefer some kind 0f Pinochet-style capitalist dictatorship, but I assure you you're in the minority.
>>77269933
Well,we experienced the beauty of communism firsthandly from the comrades.Kinda ironic before the iron courtain fallen,there was a period when westerners wanted to live like the people in the east bloc,while people were fleeing from there...
>>77269209
>mfw I had Hans-Hermann Hoppe as an Econ Professor
Greatest class ever. He basically spent every class triggering people.
>>77269048
Except the state doesn't own the means of production, lots of countries own the state oil reserves.
>>77268950
>bourgeoisie
>innocent
Pick one.
>>77269308
Government regulation mostly benefits the bourgeoisie by using the power of the state to back capital. The modern nation-state and capitalism developed together. Whenever capitalism is threatened the bourgeoisie has no problem using state regulation, e.g. the Paris Commune. If capitalism was unregulated the contradictions would be apparent for all to see.
Yes, production for profit is wasteful of resources. There's a reason why the USSR achieved what it took the West 50 years to do, by industrialising within the space of a decade. Planned economies worked well 80 years ago (the USSR from 1928-1989 grew every year except WW2 unlike in the Western capitalist states) and they work would work fantastically well in the age of the internet and supercomputers. Workers will decide what is needed.
>>77263372
Capitalism destroys morals and appeals to primal animal instincts in humans thus reinforcing them. If we ever want to progress as species we will have to get rid of it and find a way to build a new system.
>>77266400
top kek
Capitalism peace and prosperity
>>77270062
it worked better as a recovery system, not as a stable economical policy.
you can't have infinite growth at a high rate, in the case of nat soc it would stagnate in the best case and start a downward spiral in worst.
the great success of natsoc was high employment on government projects and basically writing off all the debts.
hypothetically, how would a natsoc country continue if they had won the war?
>>77266400
Nasty fruitses! Get its away!
>>77270487
>Planned economies worked well 80 years ago
It was a failure,statistics was made up.
Even if they made a high quanity of a product it was useless,or there wasn't a demand for it.
>>77270191
It was above 10% of the GDP expent on the army.
What is the third guy in the religion row?
>>77268174
cuck
>>77269725
>Take loans to invade countries, and repay them with the money after the victory
>Loses war
Nah m8, unsustainable economic system unless you win, and then it crumbles
>>77269730
>Hugo Chavez literally took over major companies and had all profits funneled to the state
>His successor, Nicolás Maduro Moros, has not changed this action... at all.
sure buddy. If Democracy elects leaders who go full retard with economics that does not mean they are "incompatible." It just means the public are full of economically illiterate retards.
>>77270751
Shit!
> Capitalism is almost like it's the 1800's
>>77270898
Buddhist monk
>>77270487
top cuck
>>77270796
> there wasn't a demand for it.
That's because they were competing within the context of a capitalist world which isolated the socialist states, thus they had to resort to things like COMECON. Even today, look how many sanctions the likes of Cuba and the DPRK suffer from, yet they still do excellently well in terms of healthcare (Cuba's life expectancy is greater than America's), public transport and full employment. These countries always lagged behind the West, typically due to being victims of their imperialism.
>>77271341
So, do you support Labour, or Lib Dems?
kike
>>77263372
>We fool you
>A Jew, two Christians and a fucking hindu/Buddist
>No muslims
Fucking leftists
>>77266665
JP Morgan was a Jew? That's proof Capitalism is Jewish and is a shit system.
>>77263372
i lub cabdollism
it will eventually give way to something else. i don't think it's going to be state controlled command economy like the socialists tried in the 20th century. it'll probably emerge naturally inside capitalism like capitalism began to displace feudalism.
the thing i think the socialists get right is that wage labor will eventually no longer exist. i think the way things are going that the point of production may come under the control of the individual. so it's kind of socialism in the sense that everyone owns the means of production but it's also kind of capitalism in that there's also a very high likelihood that exchange may still take place
i suppose a fascist hellscape not much different from the world we live in today could be our future. we'll probably go extinct if that happens
>>77263372
It will trickle down one day.
>>77270614
that's what your soviet mum told you, commie?
>>77271341
Well,they were imperialists just like they western counterpart.So they failure is not ideology related.
>>77263372
Better than the shitty alternatives, OP!
>>77271679
Are you still a peasant?
>>77270191
learn more pls
>>77269297
Hitler is proof socialism fails. He destroyed Germany and even if he won the war it was still heavily in debt.
>>77266559
>wants to list problems with Capitalism
>instead lists a plethora of problems with immigration
nigga what are you even doing? If we had a free-market society these shit skin fucks wouldn't want to come here an be a burden in the first place.
>>77271682
Just look at the state of the West you retard. And I haven't even said that it should be communism, nice insecurity crapitalist scum.
>>77270278
>How ignorant do you have to be to believe this?
well, please give me an example where this is not the case. monopolies for instance are possible within a structure, which regulations provide.
>Except markets are often out of equilibrium.
they are due to government influence.
one example in my country is the milk business.
it has become cheaper than water.
since other eu countries produced much more, with better government subsidies, they are able to import it here, and our farmers are not able to compete and the government can't even bail them out because they don't have money for subsidies.
>tendency towards monopoly require regulation
truly free market can exist, whether it's implementation is a good move for the masses is an another topic, and in the theoretical free market arising of competition effectively eliminates monopolies, and in oligopolies the "guiding hand" principle applies.
>>77270487
>>bourgeoisie
>>innocent
>Pick one.
>>77271522
It's a Jew/slim.
>>77271685
By this logic modern capitalism isn't capitalism so capitalism hasn't failed.
Communism CANT work
>>77263372
>9gag
Kill yourself
>>77271935
But it was never tried ;)
>>77270487
>Except the state doesn't own the means of production, lots of countries own the state oil reserves.
Agropatria
Alcasa
Banco Bicentenario
Banco de Venezuela
Banco Industrial de Venezuela
CANTV
Citgo
Corporación Venezolana de Guayana
Electricidad de Caracas
FertiNitro
Mission Mercal
Monte Ávila Editores
PDVAL
PDVSA
SIDOR
VIT, C.A.
All of these state owned companies
http://www.forbes.com/sites/nathanielparishflannery/2016/05/25/political-risk-outlook-venezuelas-economic-emergency/#223a5d705b30
http://www.heritage.org/index/country/venezuela
http://www.economist.com/news/americas/21618782-probably-worlds-worst-managed-economy-oil-and-coconut-water
>Your argument "No it isn't"
go be stupid somewhere else
>>77271809
I'm talking pre-war, he was forced to base his economy on warfare but there is no reason such a system cannot work with General manufacturing.
Socialism can work to a degree if the people using the welfare respect the system they are a part of. This can be achieved with Nationalism
>>77270938
No I'm just a rational capitalist not hung up on the "beautiful, pure capitalism" of the past that probably worse than feudalism. If you refuse to factor the human element into the economic equation you are only setting yourself up for riots, strikes, maybe even straight-up armed rebellion.
Even Chinese working conditions are a luxury compared to those of the early industrial revolution. If you refuse to care for your capital, human or otherwise, it will fuck you up. This is common sense.
>>77270278
too much text for one post.
>there is no economic system without government.
i'm not strictly against democracy if we are talking about the greek style democracy.
i am though against the current socialistic perversion that the french have gifted to the west.
the current democratic system (i am talking about my own country, and similar social democratic states) basically boils down to populism, and grab for power and money.
>>77272262
A well run system should be able to go to war with 0 debt.
>>77272151
Still proves nothing, state ownership doesn't mean socialism, read Connolly's State Monopoly versus Socialism.
>>77272327
The difference is that all of those systems worked
>>77271707
The USSR didn't colonise and exploit any countries, not remotely comparable to British or French imperialism.
>>77271865
WTF... more info please!
>>77270791
eww nasty fruity idiot, go away.
>>77270751
>>77270753
>>77272614
>>77272520
>>77272463
>>77272371
>>77272331
You're all cucks. Communism and Capitalism both suck because they both put their government into massive debt.
it will end in liberation or in common ruin
the trouble is recognizing which is which when it begins to happen. i'm sure the end will be terrifying.
i'm thinking another devastating crisis in less than 5 years leads to some reforms in the countries who can afford them. while more and more states begin to fail over time, i think the real end of capitalism may begin in the next 25 years
>>77269933
Theyre coming from the noth to the south but they just end up killing themselves when they find out life is significantly more difficult in the south.
Hence south korea has highest suicide rate in the world.
>>77268174
Some would argue that Marx created the very idea of "capitalism" as an idea to attack the current system. If this were true, and I'm sure to some extent it is, it stands to follow that what he remarked as capitalism was a naturally occurring phenomenon. My point is, nobody really called it anything but the natural order of things. We can argue wethe good or bad, this preposition, but I do think it's interesting.
>>77272616
Can't.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65xLByzT1l0#t=148
>>77272674
governments put themselves into debt, you dip.
government actually has no money. what they do have is taxpayer money, which they improperly invest, and lose.
>>77268683
>Venezuela is a capitalist state. Bad Keynesian Capitalism is still capitalism.
How does it feel to have a literal meme opinion?
>>77272970
You dip, they do put themselves into debt because capitalism and communism both make them.
>>77265958
>under capitalism, the means of production are controlled by the capitalists
>anyone that makes their own bussiness stops being a citizen and becomes an evil capitalist
woooow
>>77272463
>Again redefining capitalism
Ok, lets open a dictionary here and get a definition of capitalism because you are currently dumber than a nigger in the middle of a KKK rally dad.
Capitalism: an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange, characterized by the freedom of capitalists to operate or manage their property for profit in competitive conditions. [1]
Capitalism: An economic and political system in which a country’s trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state. [2]
Capitalism: a way of organizing an economy so that the things that are used to make and transport products (such as land, oil, factories, ships, etc.) are owned by individual people and companies rather than by the government [3]
[1] http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/capitalism
[2] http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/capitalism
[3] http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/capitalism
Based on these 3 accredited dictionaries you are not only wrong but fucking wrong.
>>77272614
Because they were late from colonization from internal conflicts.Still USSR expanded aggresivly against all neighbouring countries.Btw Lenin was shipped to Russia at WWI by germans to make russians rebbel,so they will be forced to make peace.
>>77273239
Actually no idiot because small businesses spend around the same as they earn. Big corporations earn more than they spend making them bad for the economy.
>>77272674
Capitalism => Jews run the central banks
Communism => Jews run the planned economy
Jews win both ways. Why else would Hitler reject both Capitalism and Communism?
>>77263372
Shouldn't that say socialism?
>>77272463
>Marxist
>Having a correct opinion
>on anything
cheers ya got me, where is the trollface.jpg now?
>>77273049
The PSUV isn't Marxist or Leninist though, it's just left-wing populist with some giveaways. Hardly that different to Sweden before the 1980s.
>>77273243
Those definitions lack a Marxist and scientific analysis of capitalism, so they're useless. The state and capital are intertwined, have been since the early 17th century when the forced enclosure of land gave birth to capitalism.
>>77265451
It's the same but with fewer steps.
>>77273440
Hitler never rejected the Central Bank. The Reich Central Bank remained privatized all throughout Hitlers reign. In fact Hitler drove up the debt to 10 billion marks which was a lot at the time. No leader in history has ever actually said "screw off" to the banks and printed their own money.
>inb4 Lincoln did it
National Debt skyrocketed during Lincolns presidency so no.
>inb4 Kennedy did it
No the national debt went up under him too.
>inb4 Jefferson and Andrew Jackson did it
No same thing as the others.
>>77271869
>in the theoretical free market arising of competition effectively eliminates monopolies,
Completely false. Totally, completely wrong. Read a book.
>>77272331
>the current democratic system (i am talking about my own country, and similar social democratic states) basically boils down to populism, and grab for power and money.
Someone is going to write the rules, and it's better to have the accountable to the masses than to themselves. Welcome to earth.
>>77272285
>probably worse than feudalism
>millions of starving, impoverished children from Ireland, Germany, Poland, and elsewhere are able to provide for their families and gain work ethic, albeit with slight workplace hazards
you are such a disgusting cuck. You realize, don't you, that the result of bannign child labor in NY was 1. child poverty increased massively and 2. child prostitution rings popped up everywhere?
>Even Chinese working conditions are a luxury compared to those of the early industrial revolution. If you refuse to care for your capital, human or otherwise, it will fuck you up. This is common sense.
Utterly nonsensical. Lrn2freedom
>>77268683
Even Lenin realized after one year Communism doesn't work. He blamed it on the farmers for being dumb peasents and let agriculture fall back into capitalism, but it in reality its just because communism doesn't work.
>>77273952
You're disgusting! In Russia the quality of life LOWERED when Feudalism was banned
>>77273665
>The PSUV isn't Marxist or Leninist though, it's just left-wing populist with some giveaways. Hardly that different to Sweden before the 1980s.
See this is what commies do. No amount of socialism is ever "true socialism," so they get to push every country further and further left until we're all on fucking collective farms with a commissar shouting "ALL HAIL OUR GREAT LEADER" into a loudspeaker.
Go look at Venezuela, North Korea, Cuba, and the USSR. They all had or have failed economies, and the only way out was to embrace capitalism.
When the fucking USSR can't do "true communism", a country which put every single capitalist into the gulags, then no one can. Get it through your skull.
Also, historical determinism is utterly ridiculous and has been proven time and time again to be false. We're 100 years after the Russian Revolution and the world has fewer communist countries, not more. So communism's entire methodology is wrong.
>>77263372
At least capitalism gives you a chance to excel.
>>77273952
>>77272285
Go back to worshiping Upton Sinclair, you deluded commie.
>>77274161
Nazi Germany was just capitalism on steroids (I know it's called "national SOCIALISM" but still it's capitalism) and made Russia look like heaven.
>>77273665
That image... is wrong
>workers are exploited by being paid far less than the monetary value of their labour
The value of a product is not decided by the labor put into it, but the market value and scarcity of the product itself. This post is predicated on the fundamentally flawed and repeatedly debunked "labor theory of value".
>>77263372
>File: Capitalism2.jpg (134 KB, 679x1000)
Ebin.
>>77274073
historically inaccurate. At least make your commie word games with some resemblance to the real world.
>>77266559
This t b h f a m
As a normie I always thought taxes were pretty useful but now it feels like whenever you send money around you pay more than 1/5th on top just to do fucking do so.
>>77274552
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9N8hsXQapjY
>>77274488
I have proven capitalism a failed system and no one has debunked me.
>>77263372
Bad the moment it pushes for massive 3rd world immigration
>>77274718
When?
>>77274718
No, I'm not watching your Buzzfeed video. If you want to contradict my point, use assertion-evidence-commentary format.
>>77263372
Capitalism and free markets are the only way humanity can reach its full potential.
>>77263372
Exploitative invention by the usurping nobles and merchants ((())).
>>77274265
Your "utopian" unbridled slave capitalism is gone for good and I thank God for that.
Abuse human capital and it will lead you to ruin, adapt or die. Just as machines are treated with care lest they break, so must humans be treated with care to maximize long-term productivity. Enough abuse of human capital will create a strike, or a union. Ignore this fact at your own peril.
>>77274381
The problem is that the subjective theory of value is only appropriate for capitalist economies. Under a socialist/communist economy the prices of goods will be determined by labour (except for the fluctuations which Marx points out in his magnum opus, as well as the fact that something must have demand for it to have value --which is also something Marx points out, and totally eradicates the price of an arduous turd fallacy).
>>77274488
You do know almost the entire work of Marx was dedicated to explain and find flaws in capitalism, do you? You do know socialists were the forst to give a reasonable definition to what capitalism is?
>>77274718
Mark the post faggot or shut your commie mouth.
Go ahead, highlight it so we can dismantle it bit by bit.
>>77274884
In other threads. I can give you the argument if you want.
>>77274916
I never sent you buzzfeed stupid.
>>77269500
>based around war
Kill yourself.
>>77274944
source?
And can you show me any society that used free markets?
>>77267443
This Panamafriend. What's the future for Panama? Are people in Panama supportive of free markets?
I read that not long ago some president there enacted price controls and supermarkets ran out of goods.
>>77275098
Communist? Socialist?
>>77275013
Something can be in demand but still fail to justify the labor to create it.
>>77275062
I never said it in this thread dumbfuck
>>77270655
>we don't exist
Kek. Commies btfo
>>77267659
>estimate
>>77263372
It's the fairest of all systems.
You work or you die.
>>77269297
Only National Socialism. These fairy tale share love and care bullshit systems only work when there's unconditional love and commitment to one's country.
Being the only civilized country not run by Jews must've felt pretty great for the Germans back then. I'd have no problem paying the state if that state actually put your people in first place.
>>77275013
>decided by labor
So if a bunch of workers created a statue of fucking Elmo out of shit and worked tirelessly and for days on it... it should have value to something that is actually useful that is the same price? Labor theory of value goes against not even a "capitalist" idea but a sane, rational, and human idea. It's bullshit.
Like the statue of Elmo that costs $500 made by "muh proletariat".
>>77275395
And that is does not happen in Communism/socialism because?
>>77275098
Still, not an argument.
>Royalty
>Rule anybody
"no". Unless you're a meme nation like Saudi Arabia, the remaining monarchies in the world are powerless.
>>77267322
>le ebin never been tried meme
>>77275354
>leafposting this hard
>>77275354
>I didn't prove myself right here but trust me
>I FUCKING OWNED SUMONE ON LEDDIT :^)
>>77275395
but that's not fair! Humans should be allowed to live for free! Food and water are rights!
>>77275504
>So if a bunch of workers created a statue of fucking Elmo out of shit and worked tirelessly and for days on it... it should have value to something that is actually useful that is the same price?
Read the rest of his fuking post, retard
>>77275291
I'm a socialist and have an argument that debunks capitalism.
In Capitalism big corporations can keep reinvesting their money making themselves richer. They keep getting more and more money. If a corporation is getting more and more money other people must be having less and less money. Therefor the rich will always get richer at suspense of everyone else.
>inb4 wealth isn't a 0 sum game
That's very true it isn't. But money is, there is limited amount of money on earth. Although QE creates more (which eventually goes back to the rich banks mind you) in true capitalism the money supply does not increase or decrease, it stays the same. Thats why capitalists love gold.
>>77275465
How was it not run by Jews? Hitler took money from wallstreet Jews, and Nazi Germany was in debt 10 billion dollars which was a lot of money at the time.
>>77275138
More than 10% of the GDP on military expending, expending 3 times more than Britain.Pretty accuarate burger
>>77275098
enlighten me
>>77275344
Sure. Marx addresses this. I was being lazy, and was in a hurry since I needed to run downstairs and grab a yogurt.
>Lastly, nothing can have value, without being an object of utility. If the thing is useless, so is the labour contained in it; the labour does not count as labour, and therefore creates no value.
>>77275504
Read the above quote. You just got BTFO by the man, a.k.a. Marx.
>>77275618
Nice meme. Queen of England is one of the most powerful influencal persons on earth. Because England + commonwealth.
>>77275618
Royalty can be traslated to today elite classes. Those images are old, probably prior ww1.
>>77275624
Name me one socialist country
>>77268357
Straw man much?
>>77275764
See here
>>77275701
>>77275819
Canada is socialist. It's not perfect but it's 2nd best country to live according to UN
Can someone give me a Pinochet?
>>77271341
>Authoritarian hermit kingdoms all report they have great healthcare! They even escorted me through one of their nice hospitals! Gosh those communists weren't so bad after all!
>t. Michael Moore
>>77269500
>based around war
>>77273665
>Read almost the entire thing
>"Refugees fleeing conflict. Racism. Nationalism."
>Realise I've just wasted a good minute reading left propaganda.
>>77275701
Justin is that you?
>>77274369
No, it wasn't capitalism. It was Fascism. Fascists believe in "organic socialism", where every piece of the economy and society functions like an organ in a body, with the government being "the brain".
It is distinct from communism and capitalism.
>>77275918
The workers own the means of production in Canada!!!??? Not real socialism, just a giant welfare state full of nigger-loving social democrats.
>>77275701
>In Capitalism big corporations can keep reinvesting their money making themselves richer. They keep getting more and more money. If a corporation is getting more and more money other people must be having less and less money. Therefor the rich will always get richer at suspense of everyone else.
If that were true inequality would be a factor to determine the overall poverty of a country, and Singapure and Hong KOng just obliterate your garbage theory.Bigger companies better salaries, there is actually a relationship between the two.
>>77268498
>muh Venezuela
What almost nobody tells you is that most of Venezuela's current issues started decades ago but were reduced for a while under Chavez's oil-based, semi Keynsian system.
>>77275851
Dumb theory.Bigger capitalization, better jobs and wages.Alredy debunked that.The best paying jobs are created by big companies
>>77275681
Why shouldn't water be a right?
>>77275701
Exactly, that is why welfare was such a vital step taken by capitalist nations. This fucking usefull idiots think that the moment they removed welfare their country would be more capitalist, instead of a quasi immediate revolution.
>>77275138
It was objectivey truth. Sometimes half the gov expenditure was based around in rearmement programs. Had not Hitler had a genious such has Schacht his country would have been bankrupted
>>77275701
>But money is, there is limited amount of money on earth.
You don't understand money very well, I see.
>in true capitalism the money supply does not increase or decrease, it stays the same. Thats why capitalists love gold.
You DEFINITELY do not understand capitalism, I see. Capitalists don't like gold, the gold standard was supported by nationalists. Capitalists work entirely on the abstract concept of (surprise surprise) Capital. Capital is essentially things that empower production and it is most DEFINITELY NOT a zero-sum thing.
People invest in gold when they lose faith in Capitalism.
>>77275972
I posted the stats.Over 10% of the GDP was spent on the military
>>77276077
Canada has free education and healthcare
>>77276119
Then let me ask you this. Are corporations getting richer?
>>77276076
Well Venezuela isn't a good example because the CIA has been fucking it up.
>>77275800
Not true at all. She has powers in THEORY. She can THEORETICALLY claim any land in the Commonwealth Members. Which is only ANZAC, Canada and UK (plus it's meme colonies such as Bermuda, Gibraltar, Turks and Calcicos, Ascension, Falklands, Picturn)
The commonwealth nations, such as anything from India to Singapore, cannot be claimed as such. Their head of state is not the Queen. They are republics. The ones I've mentioned, plus meme nations like Barbados, have her as the head and nations like Barbados are dropping her this year.
Canada will likely do it because British Empire was EVUL. ANZAC will keep trying to change it.
In short, Queen is powerless. Her main power comes only in the theory that in the event of a public uprising or similar, the army will automatically side with her. They proclaim allegiance to the Queen/King, not to the PM or the government. The police do the same as well. Navy and Airforce, I'm not sure.
>>77276208
Yeah Cuba was bad as well before my boy Castro went up that bitch right?
Fuck you.
>>77276296
>Why shouldn't water be a right?
Rights dont exist.
>>77265451
It works on any society that has hierarchy and division of labour.
>>77276334
Fucking kike.
>>77263372
It's just traditional law of the jungle prettied up.
It's giving up on trying to make the system fair, but it works if you don't mind ruining the world in long term practicing it.
>>77276387
what about national socialism?
>>77276387
Have they tried Anarcho-Capitalist Socialist Fascism?
No? THEN THEY'VE NOT TRIED THEM ALL.
>>77275795
Yeah, but a thing can have a small amount of use (not useless) relative to the labor it takes to produce. Capitalism guards against this by having people pay for what they need and want; if something has a price too high, buyers will try to find a way to go without it; if the seller has to lower the price too much to get more buyers to the point where it doesn't cover the cost of production, they'll reduce or stop production of that good.
>>77276255
Not an argument. For every high paying job they create 10 others are destroyed.
>>77276545
We can respect them but since they are obviously false they will not respect us.
>>77276387
>Posts failures
>Tries to debunk anything.
Commies should be lined up and shot
>>77273665
>you don't want something that's failed and caused famine and political repression every time it's been tried comrade. you definitely would rather have the ideal version of it nobody has ever achieved that's used to justify the political violence and famine
>>77276296
You're really dumb. Canada is socialist.
>>77276428
>Facts are jewish
>>77276626
this
>>77275918
No it's not. Canada is capitalist by every standard. Lol, get back to Pleddit.
>>77275949
Cuba is a very sucessful "socialist" country. Dispite being embargoed by almost all it's neighboors, it remained almost a regional power, and it's the best country to live in the caribeans. And yes, Cuba is half nigger
>>77275972
It was. Read something about Nazi ideology. Permanent struggle was a central tenet
>>77263372
I support ppl making $$$ for themselves, but I oppose stacking it in tax havens
Keep US money in the US
>>77269855
>most dissenters in capitalism are satisfied but greedy
Tell that to starving factory workers and peasants in Malaysia or Haiti.
>>77266665
Adam Smith was not a jew. neither was JP Morgan(unless its the JP Morgan bank). You hardly even hear media talking about them. And Even that Keynes is fantasied by leftists, here is what he thought about them:
"[Jews] have in them deep-rooted instincts that are antagonistic and therefore repulsive to the European, and their presence among us is a living example of the insurmountable difficulties that exist in merging race characteristics, in making cats love dogs …
It is not agreeable to see civilization so under the ugly thumbs of its impure Jews who have all the money and the power and brains."
making cats love dogs... hmm makes you really think.
>>77276311
Ok you don't understand money or capitalism
>>77276389
She can pardon herself of any crime. She could murder babies and get off scott free.
>>77276399
They can exist if we want them to :^)
>>77276602
Mine is an argument.Yours is a meme.There is actual correlation between big companies and better wages.There is absolutly no prove about your crap
>>77276076
Nazi germany was capitalistic in every possible way- Fascism is not a economic system, but a social and political one. Hitler considered economics beneath him
>>77276387
literally every single one of those countries either killed their dictator or is worse off because of them
>>77276394
sure
>>77276626
>>77276672
Right-wing speech should be classified as hate speech
>>77276710
>No it's not. Canada is capitalist by every standard. Lol, get back to Pleddit.
Get out of here pleb. You pay high taxes here
>>77276734
Nice argument. Way to refute my observations that the correlation between capitalism and gold investment is negative and way to explain how I misunderstand the link between capitalism and capital. You are truly a scholar, Leaf.
>>77263372
I have yet to se a viable alternative.
Automation dystopia is the closest to an alternative as we are going to get, but since resources are still finite (labour will no longer be), we will have to limit what people can get somehow else....
>>77276119
Singapore and Hong Kong are massive tax heavens mate.
>>77276076
Fascism is basically a regurgitation of guild socialism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guild_socialism
>>77276362
>Canada has free education and healthcare
So?
a.k.a.
>giant welfare state full of nigger-loving social democrats.
Socialism = workers own the means of production
>>77276578
No offense, but I'm going to trust Marx over you. Besides, we only need to tweak some of Marx's original words to create a new linguistic idiosyncrasy, and... Voilà! your argument is no longer relevant.
>>77276545
For some reason you made me laugh. %/% J0hnH3rm4n
>>77276710
>Cuba is a very sucessful "socialist" country.
Fuck, lefty pol is dumb as fuck.Cuba went t¡from wealthier than Italy, to poorer than Botswana. All the positive stats, alredy happened before Castro destroyed the country
>>77276785
So getting a hire wage aka stealing from everyone else is now good? When you lose your job you won't be saying that.
>>77269933
Not in your example, but people constantly flee capitalist countries like Haiti or El Salvador to find refuge in social democratic countries like Europe and some parts of the US.
>>77276820
They were communist economically.
>>77263372
Needs human intervention, or people make thousands of dollars for fake kickstarters and obese people make a living out of making videos where they cry
>>77276387
>It works guys!
>It just fails any time there's any internal or external opposition
Everytime I think socialists can't get any more pathetic
>>77263372
I have a lot of money so I think it works you work hard get money buy the stuff you want with the money you made simple you get what you pay for
>>77272674
>a fucking leaf
>>77276734
The Royal Family are pretty cool desu. Technically, every single member of the Royal Family, excluding the Queen, can be a MP. Yet they all declined to do so, as they did not want to sway public opinion on party choices by siding with one or another.
They also have fucking balls. Queen called the Chinese 'rude', which they fucking are. This is somehow shocking. Fuck sake, she's 90 years old, she doesn't have time for some guy with eyes tighter than a japs eye being a fucking low social class scum at her fucking birthday party or whatever.
>>77276955
DAm you're dumb
>>77276933
Capitalism = Free market. Until the market is free there is socialism
>>77276890
Sure totally.
>>77276658
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
Educate yourself you fucking retard.
Welfare is a capitalist concept
>>77276750
That doesnt make them rights. Just state given priviledges
>>77273665
>it's not because I say so
>Cries "Muh special opinion is valid because I say so"
guy, it is extremely simple: If the state owns the means of production then it is not capitalism.
>Using a Marx argument that was completely debunked (Marx, Karl. "Capital Volume I, Ch. 27 The Expropriation of the Agricultural Population")
If you read "History of Economic Analysis" by Joseph A Schumpeter (A real Economist), you'd know that Merchant Capitalism is the roots of capitalism which spawned roughly between the 9th and 12th century.
If you'd read "Karl Marx and the Close of His System" by Eugen Böhm von Bawerk, you'd realize just how wrong Marxism actually is.
Being this is the internet however I find it now a complete waste of effort trying to convince you otherwise. So I will leave you being in blissful ignorance or how economics works, must be dreamy eh?
>>77277055
>Anarcho-Primitive
>Neutral
You lefties are stupid as fuck too.
>>77276933
Okay buddy, let us know how trusting Marx pans out for you.
>>77276916
Only 7% of the economy is bank related.The same % as America.Inequality means shit in terms of progress.
>>77274718
I'll quickly look through your posts.
>>77271529
>JP Morgan was a Jew? That's proof Capitalism is Jewish and is a shit system.
1) Was he?
2) Martin Luther King was black? That's proof Christianity is Black and is a shit religion.
>>77271809
>Hitler is proof socialism fails.
Hey, that's actually true.
>A well run system should be able to go to war with 0 debt.
And system run by unicorn magic would go to war with negative debt. Good luck implementing that IRL though.
>>77272674
>Capitalism sucks because it puts its government into massive debt.
How? Capitalism proclaims minimising both taxes and government spending. Reagan didn't cut the useless social programs and it was his mistake. It's not like Reaganomics wasn't a major success in all other ways possible.
I'm tired of your bullshit now.
>>77277157
Please educate yourself, you're stupidity is hurting my brain. Canada isn't free market.
>>77276979
>So getting a hire wage aka stealing from everyone else is now good?
False,there is no theft involved
> When you lose your job you won't be saying that.
Not an argument
>>77276311
>People invest gold when they lose faith in Capitalism
I'm for free markets and I do not agree with this statement. Money is just a medium of exchange, therefor people flock to gold when they believe that other moneys' credibility is under threat.
>>77276845
Now i know why americans consider socialist to be retarded. You are possibly a fine example of them.
>>77276955
>Cuba went t¡from wealthier than Italy
Source?
Cuba has the best HDI of the caribeans, or at least in the top 5, beaten by those small tax heavens islands
>>77277009
>communist economically.
Kill yourself. You know absolutely nothing. I bet you are 15. If not, kys as fast as possible
>>77277328
>And system run by unicorn magic would go to war with negative debt. Good luck implementing that IRL though.
Sure buddy, if that floats your boat
>How? Capitalism proclaims minimising both taxes and government spending. Reagan didn't cut the useless social programs and it was his mistake. It's not like Reaganomics wasn't a major success in all other ways possible.
Because what about when the economy grows eh? What about when the population increases or GDP increases. You need more currency for more people. Where do you get it? You must borrow it.
>>77277328
I am for power to the people, I do not tolerate a reduction of power of the people under any circumstances, this makes me opposed to Communism and Capitalism.
Feel like the thread should be continued but its only like 5 people posting at this point
>>77277138
The embargo was just with the US,Hong Kong or Spain had worse embargoes and did better. Besides, Castro would have to put tariffs at some point, unles he wanted to destroy the local economy, as importing would have just been cheaper
>It's a socialists say their special snowflake brand of true socialism has never been tried but claim every bad thing that happens in any market or exchange of goods ever is an inherent failing of capitalism episode
>>77277406
>False,there is no theft involved
Systematically you are robbing others of jobs. Corporations ALWAYS get their money from taking from everyone else. If they pay high wage jobs it's because they took other money from the economy.
>>77277511
You're the the dumbest moron alive. Nazi Germany nationalized all natural resources. You're so dumb. I HOPE you have cancer.
>>77276387
Plenty of those examples were quite shit and not sustainable in any way.
Honestly socialists should just be happy that their good ideas were adopted by modern capitalists. Pure socialism/communism is stagnant trash and you know it.
Capitalism evolves like an organism, socialism stagnates like a mud puddle full of worms. Socialists need to admit that capitalism has done more good for humanity than corrupt hard-line socialist fucks ever did for anybody. While your retarded, flawed Marxist regimes rise and fall like waves, we scoop up what little worth they have and carry it forward, leaving the rest behind
Capitalism will never fall, it will continue to morph to whatever challenge rises against it and triumph. This is all attributed to capitalism's need for constant innovation, as opposed to the cultural, economic and spiritual stagnation of pure Marxist thought.
Your purist utopia is impossible, like all utopian dreams, the glory of capitalism rests in the fact that it does not strive to create a utopia, but strives to simply better itself and evolve day-by-day.
>>77277289
I have faith in all my friends. However, we still need to dismantle some bourgeois capitalist stuff, and yadda yadda first.
Communism/socialism will prevail (and function at maximum productivity plus minimum class antagonism). Screencap this post.
>>77277511
Cuba "beat" (?) caribbean nations ruled by populist governments with left wing tendencies.
As of 2016, Cuba still has limited access to internet, cars and medical technology. Great success there.
>>77265877
you mean like how paying taxes is 'voluntary'
>>77277327
And why do you consider Hong Kng and Singapore sucessfull cases? Don't they keep a underclass in a quasi slavery condition?
>>77277350
free market is not the same as capitalism
Here is a quick definition of some vital capitalism componetns, and you will tell me wich one Canada fails to provide
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism
>>77277592
Hong Kong benefitted from the Embargo. Britain banned China from trading with other ports unless it was through Hong Kong.
>>77277511
>Source?
http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/29233
Are there any actual arguments formed for and against Capitalism and historical evidence pointing towards a a logical conclusion for the fate of Socialist states?
>>77277719
>Nazi Germany nationalized all natural resources.
For the war effort. Meanwhile IG Farben went on to become the largest company in the world (or 3rd behind america steel and the Ford company)
>>77277849
>socialism is workers control of means of production.
So Canada is socialist. The government is democratically run and the government owns 20% of the oil fields and oil refineries. We literally OWN the means of production.
>>77277415
But why do other people's money's credibility become under threat? Credibility is faith, faith is capital. People loose faith in currencies of circulation when they believe they no longer circulate (and so they invest in something non fluid). In other words people loose faith in money's ability to do its job as the medium of capital which is equivalent to saying they have lost faith in the market of capital.
Obviously one could, say, loose faith in a particular nation's currency because of weaknesses in that nation's economy specifically, but to invest in gold instead of a different nation's economy is to loose faith in the machine of capital as a whole.
>>77274161
Impressive rant, but not an argument.
The argument you skewered wasn't relevant to what he said.
>>77278014
Big corporations getting richer is a socialist concept. Socialists just love destroying small business so big corps can evade government taxes and offshore. Just like how Stalin helped megabanks get richer.
>>77277828
>medical technology.
Cuba healthcare is top notch bro
>Cuba "beat" (?) caribbean nations ruled by populist governments with left wing tendencies.
Source? Or is it one other episode of "everything i don't like is socialist"?
>>77277996
Karl Marx entire work is exactly that except for the historical part
>>77278149
What are you exactly?
>>77277719
>Systematically you are robbing others of jobs. Corporations ALWAYS get their money from taking from everyone else. If they pay high wage jobs it's because they took other money from the economy.
Wow, pure rhetoric and no arguments, is this the way that you try to prove a point m8?
Big companies pay around 50% more than small business, and substantially better than the goverment on average.
>>77277798
Good for you. Just a few more years of unquestioning faith in their economic model, and it'll suddenly become a wild success.
>>77277849
>Don't they keep a underclass in a quasi slavery condition?
No. The underclass there is wealthier than in France.Both of them, have better wages than France in every socioeconomic percentile of the population
>>77267165
>Ancap here
>>77278065
I disagree because a medium of exchange (money) is just another good in the economy. If this good is perceived as doing a bad job then people will opt out of it.
Gold may provide a safe haven from bad policies of central banks and physical gold may serve as a good shield from the tax man (although physical gold has other cons such as risk of theft).
>>77278218
So Marx's Das Kapital perfectly describes the plight of the average man and what system is best for both the company, worker, and nation? Seems a little too good to be true, especially how Marxist "equality" theory has been pumped into most walks of Western lifestyles, resulting in the current state of affairs.
>>77278225
Anarcho-Primitive. I hate capitalism and socialism. I am against all violent activism so I disagree with what Varg Vikernes did but he has a lot of great youtube videos about this.
>>77277996
One thing to understand is that states can be socialist (and usually states are ABLE to be stably socialist whenever they have a certain degree of social unity), but they still exist within a worldwide market system which operates on the free market principal of capitalism. Only North Korea (for the most part) is not.
>>77278053
Nope, because according to Marx, the state was there to satisfy the needs of the capitalists, and he is right.
And as far as i know, the majority of the companies are still privately owned, right? And the nationalized companies are still run for profit, wich means that they operate on a capitalist standard
>>77278072
False, he's correct.
>>77278149
>>77278225
He is a retard
>>77278218
>Cuba healthcare is top notch bro
No, pretty mediocre, it was better proportionaly with Batista, which surprassed the UK at the time in medical services
>>77278245
>Big companies pay around 50% more than small business, and substantially better than the goverment on average.
Is that work 92 million Americans being unemployed?
>>77278279
good for you
>>77278366
stfu freak
>>77277849
>Cuba is Communist
>everyone in Cuba has yachts and has one of these mansions
>>77266559
>temporarily
lol thats what you think
>>77278361
> The underclass there is wealthier than in France.
I definetely want a source for that. I thought that the malays were treated lower then dogs in singapure, as were the mainland chinese in Hong Kong
>>77275819
The first example was the Paris Commune. The USSR and Eastern Bloc had some socialistic elements but were more totalitarian. Tito's Yugoslavia was closer to socialism. Rojava today is another example.
>>77278462
We don't know if nationalized companies still run a profit because cost of capital in state owned companies is subsidized by the state's implicit and explicit backing.
>>77278384
Read bro. Don't make your own mind about Marx without reading him.
>>77278457
I'd wager that the "socialist" nature of some state you are referring to is dependent on that exact social unity; could it be argued that that unity opens the path for many types of systems to be tried, so long as traditional values are held (i.e. put a national in front of the term).
>>77278547
>Is that work 92 million Americans being unemployed?
where did you got that data? BTW america has one of the best salary offers in the world, mainly due big corps
>>77277692
This.
At least most capitalists own up to the mistakes of capitalism.
>>77278629
Yeah the socialists never had slave classes or repressed ethnic minorities
Just dropping in to say capitalism is fucking great
America is great. I love this country. If you avoid nigger areas and spic areas, it's amazing and everyone has money.
>>77278715
Fair point, I have not read any Marx, but from what I've heard, the distribution of wealth and the dissolution of a government aren't good things (inequality is necessary because people aren't equal and some form of government is inevitable). But that's all non-arguments because I haven't read any of Marx's exact ideas to be able to critique them, just my input from what I've gathered over the years.
>>77275949
The World Bank ranks Cuba's life expectancy among the highest in the Americas. It's by far the highest in the region. But yes, it does have shortages of some supplies.
>>77277996
A book called Requiem for Marx has a chapter on this. Ignore lefty/pol/ since he has previously admitted to not reading any of Marx's work (yes, seriously).
You should also read through these:
https://socialdemocracy21stcentury.blogspot.com/2016/02/the-critical-responses-to-volume-3-of.html
https://socialdemocracy21stcentury.blogspot.com/2015/12/some-early-critical-reviews-of-volume-3.html
There's an old book called Socialism vs Civilization which might interest you, and was, I believe, first published in 1920.
>>77278584
communism is a anarchism. I doubt Cuba was anarchic
>>77278690
nice
>>77278706
They are run FOR profit. If they are profitable or not does not matter to the discussion at hand
>>77278759
Trump said it. And think about it. If a corporation is making money someone else has to be loosing money, who is loosing money right now in America? The middle class.
>>77278762
No they don't. They all claim it was communists.
>>77278953
> but from what I've heard,
Are 3rd hand experiences with people who have vested interest in keeping the populace shocking so ignorant in sinmple socialist ideas and principles
>>77269690
>Speaks about Capitalist ideology
>Posts a clearly Mutualist image
Anon... It's like you aren't even trying.
>>77278374
It's easy to propose that in the abstract (because it's true; it's just another good), but the fact is there's a certain degree of historical superstition in gold and silver specifically. Just look at the history of gold. When the global economy starts seizing up the investment in gold goes up, when it starts functioning again it goes down. Sensible market players understand that using gold as a safe harbor has no logical grounds and that "the only way out is through" (in other words they have to continue investing and circulating in order to get the economy moving again), but at the same time they would be stupid not to try and take advantage of the superstition surrounding gold in order to make a profit.
>>77278953
Inequality exists in socialism. It as to exist. If everyone had the same no one would have to work harder
>>77278762
like the bankers did in '08?
>>77276394
Native Cubans were generally very poor peasants under Batista. The photos of rich areas were from resorts that were closed to almost everyone.
>>77263372
Literally provided the world with more human rights and freedoms than any system in human history, Marxists GTFO!
>>77278953
Trust me bro, you have to taste shit to know it tastes bad!
>>77278962
Cuba was richer than Italy prior to the Communists.
Cuba is now a third world country, indistinguishable from any shit hole province in Latin America or Africa.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY9fhMRk_DI
