Was the dropping of atomic bombs on Japan justifiable to end WW2?
Provide real facts and reasons why it was/wasn't justifiable.
>war
>having to be justified
>>76234579
America needs to fucking apologise for this shit.
>>76234692
Shut it ya manlet nerd
>>76234692
This guy, everytime
I'm amazed they were able to rebuild with all the radiation.
of course it was.
we feared many millions of lives to have been lost on between both sides and an occupation to last several decades including an occupation army of at least one million.
>>76234579
America proud of being the only nation pussy enough to use nukes.
Justified? Not really. But it's explainable. The reasons were more political than military. The US needed an unconditional surrender RAPIDLY. This was the best way to get it (without a precipitated invasion that would have caused many losses).
>>76234692
trump should nuke africa middle east india detroit and londonstan
Should have dropped them on germany desu
>>76234579
Yes. Look up operations Olympic and Coronet.
The US war department manufactured 500,000 purple heart medals in anticipation of the campaign. We are still giving out medals from that same production batch today. That tells you how serious it was. You thought Saipan and Okinawa were bad? This would've been a level of carnage that wouldn't have seen an equal till Vietnam at the least
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfall
>>76235089
They didnt need fancy bombs to flatten Dresden
Cities were already being erased with firebombing, were the Japanese really forced into submission by a city being destroyed by one bomb rather than 5000?
>>76235167
>bombed dresden
>krupps,vw,siemens not bombed
gg
>>76235022
Saving a lot of lives qualifies as "justified," to me.
>>76234579
otherwise wwii would've just kept on going
those japs just would not give up
>>76235177
Firebombings? I thought no bombers had reached Japan before the Enola gay and co
>>76235327
Are you serious...
>>76234579
Yes. Ended the war. QED
>>76235167
The krauts didnt need to bomb the Coldstream Guard's Officers Chapel. But they did
Alls fair in love and war; remember that cuck
>>76235290
Bah, you shouldve leaked more intel to the allies for more accurate bombings
>>76234738
Fuck off leaf.
>>76234773
>>76235026
You WILL fucking apologise. I'm going to get a Twitter hashtag trending this week so expect to be hearing more and more about this you fat burger retards.
>>76234579
It was justified because we won.
I fail to see why this train of thought needs to continue any further
>>76234579
They don't need to apologize for the bombs.
They need to apologize for not having left the war after Japan surrendered.
>>76234579
This thread again?
>was it justifiable
No. But it's war. Shit happens to everyone.
If you want to quibble over the specifics: Hiroshima was """justified""", Nagasaki was not. The latter was just an excuse to see what a plutonium bomb would do and scare Uncle Joe.
>>76234882
>we feared many millions of lives to have been lost on between both sides
lmao as if America gave a fuck about how many "Jap monkeys" they killed. And as for the "million American lives saved" meme, that number was never supported by a military debriefing. The original figure of speculated (American) casualties from a full-scale invasion was about 20-25K.
>>76234579
>>76235327
>What is the Doolitle Raid
>What is the Firebombing of Tokyo
>What is the destruction of Shuri Castle.
Canadian """""""education"""""""""
>>76234804
The bombs were air burst, which means most of the radiation was in the rain that fell. Ground burst causes a lot worse fallout.
>>76235327
Really? I was born and raised in NS and even I know that's not the case. The Tokyo firebombings killed a lot more.
>>76235026
I beg the day this happens.
>>76235513
>I'm going to get a Twitter hashtag trending this week so expect to be hearing more and more about this you fat burger retards.
>>76235327
>I thought no bombers had reached Japan before the Enola gay and co
4chan is for 18+ of age, get out.
>>76235385
Wasnt, the nukes are pretty much all I ever heard about nips getting bombed. Ive some catching up to do on the pacific war
>>76235317
This was a lie IIUC. They could have waited it out. Continued air raids would have prevented them from rebuilding. Japan was broken. It could no longer sustain war.
But the US couldn't wait for other reasons that didn't have much to do with Japan.
We dindu nuffin wrong
>>76235794
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_mutilation_of_Japanese_war_dead
Let's draw the line saying war is hell, okay?
>>76234579
Who cares? The Japanese didn't comply to the Geneva convention so there is no justification to hold it's enemies to them until after hostilities.
>>76235684
>The Tokyo firebombings killed a lot more.
Yup that they did. Got a paper my great grandad kept from the war mentioning all the "Rice Cripsies"
>>76235789
>They could have waited it out
Sure, if the Soviets weren't breathing down Truman's neck. Truman actually considered giving the Japanese an ultimatum and a warning: the first would tell them that they can keep their Emperor (part of the reason why Japan wouldn't surrender is because they thought we would execute Hirohito) and the second would warn them of the atom bomb. Both were scrapped because of reasons.
>>76235026
>Nuke Detroit.
I'm pretty sure you'd improve the living conditions so go for it.
HOW ABOUT ENGLAND KILLED MORE CIVILIANS IN ONE CARPET BOMBING MISSION OF COLOGNE THAN AMERICANS DID IN HIROSHIMA?
Pic not related.
>>76236050
Maybe.
>>76235948
>The Japanese didn't comply to the Geneva convention so there is no justification to hold it's enemies to them until after hostilities.
By that logic we should be able to glass the desert ISIS occupies but we have a bunch of bleeding heart cucks in office
>>76236036
Rice Crispies!
>>76236163
lol correct, goddamn typo
>>76236036
What did they call Dresden? "Early Oktoberfest"?
>>76234579
I though Hiroshima and Nagasaki were
Catholic cities of the Middle East.
Definitely kike's plans. Of course it's not justificated.
>>76236250
>of the Middle East
>justificated
Go to bed Argie you're drunk.
>>76236250
Christianity was partially allowed after the Meiji Restoration (after a total ban), but was cracked down upon as an enemy religion during the build-up and to and during the war. The movie "A Boy called H" shows about this, if you can get a copy of it.
>>76236040
Yeah... that's what I gather. But they often presented it as a "military necessity", which is misleading at the very least.
The soviets were coming for it. They had been the worst allies throughout the war. Helping when they shouldn't have. Not helping when they should have. Waiting things out; never being at the right place at the right time.
And Japan knew that. They knew they had been beaten, but also that the Soviets would be coming to "help" the US soon.
IF they could wait out long enough for the soviets to get there and invade, then they would have had more leverage when surrendering. Things would have had to be negotiated between the US and the Soviets.
It's a bit like trying to survive a lion chasing you by running towards another lion and hoping they will start fighting for their meal.
The US knew that as well and wanted to avoid it at all cost. And it wanted an unconditional surrender too. Japan wouldn't be what it is today if the US didn't succeed.
>>76236122
ISIS is not a recognized nation so no sadly. Would be equivalent to Nuking the home nation they're in and targeting non combatants. So you'd get massively sued as well as the bleeding heart protesters. However because ISIS members are non lawful combatants they're not really covered by POW laws, so invest in car batteries.
Were Japanese civilians trained basic fighting to kill our allied soldiers if they invaded Japan?
>>76234665
/thread
also
FOOKA YOO DOLPHIN AND WHALE
>>76236104
Instant sterilization of all hazardous homes and cheaper real estate would really revitalize the area.
I'm liking this.
>>76236731
"Civil Defense Corps", similar to what Britain was doing. Also shown in the "A Boy Called H"
>>76236814
Epic Reddit meme, Leaf.
>>76236833
Imagine the smell though...
>>76235684
So basically they used cuck bombs rather than something truly devastating.
>>76236676
>US wanted an unconditional surrender too
What cracks me up about this is that people believe that happened, that America got an unconditional surrender out of Japan. Instead we played nice and said 1) Japan can keep their Emperor, 2) we won't do away completely with Japan's military industrial capabilities like we said we would, and 3) Japan will fork over their considerable intelligence on the Soviets.
>>76236731
Sort of. Kids were trained with bamboo spears at schools. I don't know about the adults; most men and boys of fighting age were already at war by then.
>>76237025
>flag
Every time.
>>76236890
hold your head high nip, hiroshima and nagasaki today are in better condition than many american cities that didn't get nuked.
>>76237025
It was mainly to stop Russia, show off their new weapon, and for the propaganda value at home/all around the world. That's why largely untouched cities were chosen.
>>76237112
They trained with rifles as well, mainly old rusty surplus.
>>76237177
Ottawa too, IMO.
>>76236890
That looks disgusting
>>76234579
go do your fucking homework
>>76237315
Contrary to popular belief Japan doesn't eat whale all the time. Whale dishes exist but they're super rare delicacies. I had some whale sashimi once and they were pretty good but not worth the price.
>>76237315
Really good. Eaten raw, practically melts in your mouth. Good deep fried or as shashimi too.
>>76237428
*sashimi.
>>76237112
Next you're going to say you wouldn't want to see a fully powered nuke on Saudi
>>76237660
My dream is to see the liberal-progressive crowd go ape on the Saudis and their Sharia law. Sadly it will never ever happen.
>>76234579
>justifiable
Don't attack us.
That is the only justification we need, and the only explanation anyone is ever entitled to.
>But don't you think this was overkill?
Don't attack us.
>Couldn't they have found another way?
Don't attack us.
>Shouldn't you at least apologize a little?
Don't attack us.
Three words are need to respond to any of this. We need explain nothing else.
Don't fucking attack us, period. End of discussion.
>>76234579
The nip savages had it coming, and I'm pretty sure the rest of Asia, especially the Chinese, who were subjected to their brutality on a genocidal scale, we're just fine with us nuking them.
Personally, they had plenty of opportunities to surrender, but kept trying to setup a scenario where they could get one big win and then sue for peace with honor.
See, what you faggots nowadays don't understand is that you don't fight wars for a high score or to "win", you fight wars to destroy the assets, personnel, culture and, ultimately, the future of your enemy. Only through total defeat and utter humiliation can your enemy be subjugated and remade as you wish. When you are fighting such a war, you use all weapons at your disposal and you use them until your enemy surrenders unconditionally or is entirely destroyed. This is the nature of total war and it is an ugly business.
>>76237787
The libs are massive hypocrites who really just hate the West, that's why the worst of offenders abroad are never condemned but microaggressions are pursued relentlessly in our countries.
>>76237897
Someone's been reading Clausewitz.
>and, ultimately, the future of your enemy
wew
>>76237428
That pic looks pretty good, the other pic looks like 90% fat
>>76234579
>>76237895
Truth
>>76238114
It is, it's whale bacon, not the regular meat. Pretty good, in small quantities.
>>76238249
>Strengthens your democracy!
More like made them kawaii uguu~
>>76236104
>>76236833
Some homes cost less than a hundred dollars
Crack a book sometime.
Japan wouldn't surrender, it wasn't in their culture, They only have themselves to blame.
The Yalta Declaration required that within 3 months of Hitler's downfall that the Soviets would HAVE to be in on the invasion of the Japanese home islands.
That would have meant a DIVIDED Japan, much as Germany was divided and as Korea is divided to this very day.
The Atom bomb provided the Americans a way to beat the clock and totally exclude the Soviets from the stand-off that later descended onto all of Europe, totally dominating the politics there.
The Japanese understood that sticking it out against the Americans would later bring Soviets who would insist on killing their Emperor, the same as they did the Tsar 30 years before.
The Japanese did not actually surrender due to the bombs --they surrendered because it was far better to lose to America than America AND the Soviets.
Incidentally, the Soviets did still take TWO Japanese islands which to this day have not been returned.
>>76235789
Not by a long shot, we were bombing them on and off for a while.
The immediate effects of the firebombs were probably worse than the nukes. You didn't get instantly vaporized, you burned to death. Of course the nukes did more long term damage.
I dare anyone to refute this
http://youtu.be/VfyNNVuLCn8
>>76234579
Yes
>>76238059
Actually, people misinterpret him, he never argued that war should be fought in said manner, as he believed that political objectives should and would temper "pure" and unrestricted warfare.
He was, like so many Prussian militarists, a fucking knob who saw the world through the aristocratic 19th century notions of limited warfare. 20 minutes March with General Sherman through Atlanta would have sorted him out.
>>76238639
This is criminally unknown.
VE Day= May 8th
USSR agreed to declared war 90 days after,
USSR attacks Japan's mainland forces on August 9th, same day that Nagasaki was bombed.
>>76238795
What do you think of Walzer's "Just and Unjust Wars"? I think he makes some good points despite ultimately being a huge moralfag.
At that point of the war, the atomic bombs were probably more about putting the fear of god into the Soviets than convincing the Japs to surrender. Their army was already fucked and we had free reign to bomb the shit out of them conventionally, after all. If it took much longer the Russians might have started their own invasion, and that wouldn't have been good for ANYONE.
>>76234579
No.
"Do not use force against an evil man."
>>76238946
Alright japan, what do you think about the 2 nukes on your country?
>>76238562
Jesus......
>>76239443
this meme of homes being less than a hundred dollars is true but its not what you think. The houses that are literally just painted wood with nothing inside of it.
>>76239518
Oh.
That's not much better.
>>76239313
This. If you kill your enemy, they win.
>>76239335
I'm a Canadian living here, but pretty much all of the war gets's written off as being a war. I've talked with old people who lived through it, and most just see it as the end result of their country's aggression (which is taught in school). This is why most Japanese people are so fierce defending Article 9 of the constitution, which says they'll never start a war again, and only fight in defense.
Also, 78% of the A-bomb survivors polled before Obama's Hiroshima visit said they didn't want an apology, and picture related was on the front page of most newspapers the next day.
tl;dr, War is Hell, let's not.
>>76239075
I think you said it just right "a huge moralfag".
See, attempting to assign justifications for and ethical restrictions on war is like trying to contain and limit the destructive force of a supermassive black hole - you are outside of normal rules and behavior. That's why war is bad and you try to avoid them; real all-out wars are generally catastrophic events that, when left uninterrupted and fought to their logical conclusion, result in one side being totally destroyed. Ethics, justifications and rationalizations are swallowed whole and lost beyond the event horizon of defeat.
>>76239313
Technically it was heat as well.
>>76239748
There's no winning.
>>76239876
That's actually funny. Good job.
>>76239946
>There's no winning.
Then there's no losing, either.
Absolutely. Those fuckers pulled Pearl Harbor and murdered 20 million Chinese/Korean civilians (not including rape, experiments and torture). They deserved many more nukes.
>>76240020
Not really, they got the message and they're all good now.
>>76240007
Depends on how you qualify losing. I think going to hell is losing.
>>76239776
im sorry, but you are a confirmed weab. unless u have family there or you are japanese yourself, you are a confirmed fucking weab
>>76240153
I qualify losing as not-winning.
But, since there's no winning, in your scenario, I can't qualify losing. Tautology, and all.
>>76240020
>murdered 20 million Chinese/Korean civilians
>implying you care
Fun fact: America used the findings from Unit 731 to develop their own biological warfare. Especially for the Korean War. Let's be real, America only cared about Pearl Harbor and basically the white race getting kicked out of East Asia because of the Co-Prosperity Sphere myth.
>>76240089
>also created anime, the most degenerate form of media the world has ever seen, and has cucked millions of weeaboos
>good now
No, I don't think the job is done.
There hasn't been a nuke used in an act of war since, that's not something we could necessarily say if the bombs weren't dropped on Japan. This alone makes it a price worth paying.
>>76240319
>the most degenerate form of media the world has ever seen
You mean ponies?
>>76240319
>Betas getting cucked and removed from the gene pool is Japan's fault.
If anything it's a humanitarian service.
>>76240237
With your flag, can I call you a confirmed nigger?
>>76240319
And who invented reality TV?
I'm married and work in trade. Work is the things other people do so you can get your EBT and Obamaphone, understand?
>>76240263
You can qualify winning as gaining and losing as detracting, in which case one can have scenarios in which one can lose but be incapable of winning or win but be incapable of losing.
Yes.
The practicality of nuclear weapons needed to be demonstrated in a densely populated area and the data collected was worth every bit of the lives of cowardly, soulless Japs.
>>76240405
Ok, second most degenerate. Ponybros will be nuked as well.
>>76235684
Jap women and child burned to death in firebomb raids
FUCKING REKT
>>76240708
Canadians ruled by this.
FUCKING REKT
>>76240708
Canada. Worst part of the Anglo-sphere.
It was as justified as any other military action taken to effectively end the war. Even if you don't approve of it, you should at least acknowledge the rationale behind it instead of thinking the decision was made for shits and giggles.
>>76234579
Japanese are cucks
>>76240896
Don't you have a child to drunkenly abuse?
>>76240952
Haha fucking cuck nu male
Probably masturbates to anime as well
>>76240952
>has children
>>76241216
Don't you have to line up for the dole tomorrow? Get some rest, Lucky Charms.
>>76241285
I have 2 myself. How many did your wife have when you met her?
>>76240952
>>76241362
Bantz of the rising sun.
>>76240774
>>76240786
Lol japs got fucking btfo. Charred remains of fish heads
>>76241420
Think there's any fish in PM Cowboy's pancakes? He does have some Sikh flipping skills.
>>76241362
Sex dolls and 2d moe porn don't count. And zero.
Off to Aokigahara with you.
>>76241420
Good. Imperialist Japan was almost as shitty as Canada.
>>76241362
Hey hikikomori go outside
Yellow squint eyed little dick man
>>76241698
Potato with the bantz of a potato.
>>76241622
My wife and kids are real, guess you'll be adopting some niglets?
>>76241631
Too far, man, too far.
>>76241698
I'm at work, you albino-skinned, ginger-headed, alcoholic leprechaun fucker. Are you busy thinking up new ways to whine about the British ruining your beautiful traditional culture of drunkenly tripping into a bog and being in a museum centuries later?
>>76234579
war is war but if you want justification its the simple fact that it change japan justifys it. it didnt change many aspects of japan but it did free them from a monarchy which allowed social development and eventually this leads to tentacle pron
if america didnt nuke them they wouldnt produce tentacle pron today. causality the future is determined by the past
>>76241883
You will be China's bitch for years to come nip
Learn to accept it
>>76241631
Island built by convicts bringing in shitskin crime JUST
>>76242325
At least they can't get arrested for hate speech.
>>76242325
How long did it take you to accept being the bitch of the English? Just for reference.
>>76234579
Yes, because they were Japs.
The Japanese as a race rejected Christ, killed Christians, and made it a capital offence to be a Christian:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martyrs_of_Japan
The punishment of God to avenge this wrong was nuclear bombardment.
>>76242458
Than why is Jesus buried here?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shing%C5%8D,_Aomori#Tomb_of_Jesus_Christ
>>76234579
No it wasn't. Japan was going to surrender and they knew it. They had already used traditional weapons to bomb the fuck out of Tokyo and others. It was more about dick waving with the Soviets than anything:
Having said that, Obama fucking apologizing for it was inexcusable treasonous bullshit
>>76242394
Country that tries so hard to be like Australia they let a forest fire engulf one of their provinces.
>>76242556
>Obama fucking apologizing for it was inexcusable treasonous bullshit
Accept he didn't. He basically talked about how war sucks for 20 minutes. 78% of the survivors asked didn't want an apology anyway.
>>76242556
>Obama fucking apologizing for it was inexcusable treasonous bullshit
You're surprised he is a treasonous shit?
>>76242325
No they won't. They'll go right on being our bitch because they know damn well that without us and our 11 carrier battle groups and 14 SSBN's, the Han would be in Tokyo in a week to "discuss" Nanking. The Chinese have long memories.
>>76242556
But he didn't apologize.
He just said war was hell.
>>76234579
War needing justification is meme tier bullshit. The weak should fear the strong.
>>76242556
>Japan was going to surrender
Then why didn't they surrender when they were called to surrender? Make up whatever excuse you want, they had it coming.
>Firebombed Tokyo for months and killed almost as many people as an atomic bomb.
>They didn't surrender.
>First atomic bomb
>They didn't surrender
>3 days later another atomic bomb
>Takes them another 6 days and the Soviets declaring war on them for them to finally surrender.
I think the atomic bombs made it so they had no other choice but to surrender because they would have likely sacrificed most of their population if they thought they still had a chance.
>>76234579
Japs deserve it. They did horrific human experiment in asian and Russia. They killed millions of Chinese and Koreans. Unit 731 and such. Japs showed they were the most evil among all other races
Yes.
A-bombs killed 150,000 or so, and the war was done.
Conventional war would have killed millions and lost half of Japan to the USSR for decades or more.
The irony about atomics in Japan is that they have now radiated themselves far more than the A-bombs did with their idiotic Fukushima fuck up.
>>76243094
>Flag
No wonder you're upset over what happened to China.
>>76243180
>The irony about atomics in Japan is that they have now radiated themselves far more than the A-bombs did with their idiotic Fukushima fuck up.
You know that outside of the areas closet to the plants, most of the evacuated area has been deconned and reopened, right?
>>76242901
Objectively, the whole "they were going to surrender" moral relativist argument is bullshit. They were not going to surrender until they could negotiate terms and surrender with "honor". They were beaten and had known so since the autumn of '44. They simply didn't want an unconditional surrender and felt they could create leverage for terms if they could deliver a large defeat in battle. They were willing to persue this strategy all the way to a mainland invasion, desperately hoping to create a scenario that would prove costly enough to the allies that they would have some position to negotiate from.
Nuking them was specifically intended to drive home the need for a complete and unconditional surrender. It was not intended to send a message to the Soviet Union as Stalin was fully aware of the Atomic bomb and was even briefed by Truman directly at Potsdam (though he knew even prior to Potsdam thanks to effective soviet espionage).
The purpose of the bomb was very simple, to demonstrate the massive and unassailable military superiority of the United States and force Japan to surrender immediately and unconditionally. It worked.
