/csg/ - Christianity General
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For all things Christian
Catholics and Protestants alike are welcome to discuss theology. Try to be polite.
Atheists also welcome, but try to be constructive.
Pastebin for believers and curious folk.
http://pastebin.com/xMQ9wAwW
Friday, June 4, 2016
Liturgical Year C, Cycle II
Readings for Mass
First Reading: Ezekiel 34:11-16
Responsorial Psalm: Psalms 23:1-3, 3-4, 5, 6
Second Reading: Romans 5:5-11
Gospel: Luke 15:3-7
Today's Rosary: The Sorrowful Mysteries
Good Scenes to watch
>Jesus Anime
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8d-uB0vaoQo
>Jesus of Nazareth Sermon on the Mount:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDCbJ4vnMNg
>Jesus chases Jews out of the Temple
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEtBs6j7QgU
>Jesus gives sight to the Blind....and takes sight from those who can see
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pY7vamVg99E
>Roman Centurion has more faith than anyone in Israel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNLSBjYDPko
>Ben Hur scenes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVlf7OiiTJE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fbt2UUthWg0
First. I can't believe we've had these threads non-stop for a few days, it's great.
God bless all of you.
>>76102841
'bout time someone started another one of these threads
What denominations do we have here today?
Catholic reporting in.
>>76104349
Orthodox
a must watch series
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLF170B126002E7CB0
the Papacy is the antichrist system
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gj4vdYZuW4E
>>76104271
DEUS VULT
>>76104349
Based Roman Catholic here
on Satan's deception
http://www.bibletools.org//index.cfm/fuseaction/Topical.show/RTD/cgg/ID/1576/Satans-Deception.htm
>>76102841
>cuck general
>>76104852
not an argument
>>76102841
This is something I never thought I'd see here. I'm impressed with the works. The end will be horrible and we will be watching from the sky as Gods wrath is poured out on the earth. I look forward to seeing my brothers in Christ when the trumpet sounds. It may not seem like it sometimes, but a difference has been made and souls have been saved from the coming tribulation. Peace is coming soon.
.t Watchman on the wall
>>76104439
>an argument
KJV-only fundamentalist Baptist reporting for duty. Armed and ready for Sodom and Gomorrah part two. Please discard all Jewish fables at your nearest trash bin.
>>76104852
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUaSfF0mcX4
enjoy your Sumerian Babylon incestuous Sun Cult
just know, you've been warned
So, I don't know if I'll be swaying on this anytime soon, but how do you guys feel about someone who doesn't buy the few-millenia-old deal? It feel like God woulda had to break a lot of physical laws he made for us to have a 6000-year-old universe or whatever, and it's not like he needed a whole seven days to make everything. I don't see the seven days thing as something that needs to be taken as anything other than figurative, and to say that doesn't even feel like picking and choosing to me.
I mean, light is still reaching us from things that are billions of light-years away. Yes, God could have pulled some shenanigans to make that work, but it seems awfully strange when just creating it in a Big Bang would be an equally-viable choice, more consistent with the rest of how existence works.
>>76105888
I want answers to this.
>>76105888
I'm not sure you'll find a lot of creationists anymore. Catholicism actually backs up the belief of evolution. Anyways, you have to look at the Bible as a collection of books written by various authors inspired by the Holy Spirit, it's not a single book. Each book should be looked at differently, almost like different genres, where some can be take literally and others are to be taken symbolically. :)
>>76106195
Just the same person you're replying to, but I don't think it's something to fret about too much. Stuff like that's not really the point of the Bible, it's the messages. In the end, it's just a book written by humans, a collection of historical documents about events and lessons relating to our faith and creator. If God actually told someone the literal process through which He created everything, neither the writers not readers would be able to comprehend any of it, let alone prehistoric humans.
Still. It's usually stupid for one to think they're in good company on 4chan as a Christian, but if this thread is legit then I wanna know how actual Christians here feel about this stuff.
>>76106507
Looks like I'm on the money. I'm really starting to get curious about how hardcore Creationists think, how on earth would the concept of evolution contradict God's existence in any sense? Do they not believe God would be capable of setting off a comparitively simple chain reaction from prokaryotes to humans? Do they just not think things through?
I do still find a lot though. Some mentors I had for a mission trip a few years ago found evolution and a billion-year universe laughable, and strangely these were otherwise rather bright and quick-witted people.
>>76107114
I like you
>>76104349
Non denominational...I don't think I'm a special snowflake or anything...I'm just a Christian, nawmean?
>>76103991
I am surprised too. Maybe /csg/ will be one of those "constant" threads that we have here like /sg/ and /tg/.
>>76107554
I feel ya.
What do you guys do at services? Do you have a priest/pastor? I'm curious.
Its saterday:Saturday, June 4, 2016
Liturgical Year C, Cycle II
First Saturday
Today's Mass
Saturday of the Ninth week in Ordinary Time
Readings for Mass
First Reading: Second Timothy 4:1-8
Responsorial Psalm: Psalms 71:8-9, 14-15, 16-17, 22
Gospel: Mark 12:38-44
Immaculate Heart of Mary - Optional Memorial
Readings for Mass
From the Common of the Blessed Virgin Mary
or
From the Proper of the Season
or
From this reading
Gospel: Luke 2:41-51
Blessed Virgin Mary - Optional Memorial
Readings for Mass
From the Common of the Blessed Virgin Mary
or
From the Proper of the Season
Today's Rosary: The Joyful Mysteries
>>76107651
miejmy nadziejÄ™, anonku
>>76104271
deus vult
>>76102841
Thanks for using my pastebin. God bless your soul for trying so hard with these people.
>>76105888
I'm catholic and as such I am not obliged to subscribe to creationism, but I do believe that humans were created by God and did not descend from a common ancestor of monkeys gorillas and apes. The fact is that there are no fossils (that I'm aware of) that suggest any kind of support for the theory in my opinion. For example, where are the intermediary evolutionary species? and where are the fossils or other proofs of a common ancestor? I have many reasons for believing this way; just one is the belief in an eternal soul which I believe we do not share in common with "the other primates." I find that there's a lot to macro-evolution that is missing, which weakens its validity as a theory in my opinion
>>76105888
Peter really nails in and so does Jesus Christ nail in that the Flood really happened. So you might as well accept you've been lied to and start doing research.
Try creation.com.
>>76107911
>>76107166
This is tantamount to calling the Apostles, and Prophets liars and thus God a liar.
>> 6000-year-old universe or whatever
I don't think this is in the bible at all.
Adam and a few of his descendants where given the longevity of nearly a thousand years. It also says the lord doesn't have the same perception of time that the average joe on the street would.
Read the book...
>>76107771
>What do you guys do at services?
We consecrate bread and wine, transforming it into the literal body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ. In this way, we fulfill the command of our Lord to eat his body and drink his blood, as is written in all four of the canonical gospels
>Do you have a priest/pastor?
Yes, we have at least one priest at each mass as a validly ordained priest is necessary to perform the act of consecration
It's really a beautiful thing. Before I committed myself to becoming Catholic, I could sense a warm sense of peace when in a Catholic sanctuary, kinda like that "home-y" feeling you get sometimes, only even more peaceful..
>>76108085
>This is tantamount to calling the Apostles, and Prophets liars and thus God a liar.
>This
What is "this"? Maybe you misread my post
>>76108553
Ignore him. He is probably dumb enough to think that Bible is all literal. When this meme from XIX century will die?
>>76108553
The bible is true. Someone saying they are a Christian and not believing the bible is stupid.
A Catholic said they don't believe the book of Genesis.
You're essentially saying 'I believe in the Word of God (Jesus) but not in the Word of God (bible).
It's calling God a liar. If He speaks truth and you don't believe Him, how can you have any faith?
Catholicism is not biblical. It's essentially man-made traditions with bells and whistles.
>>76108441
sorry, i mis-typed -- "we" don't consecrate the bread and wine, rather the priest is the only one who has the power to do this. I meant to say that we fulfill our Lord's command by consuming his precious body and blood.
I was largely a theist until two or three years ago. I've only recently gotten back into church and reading the bible.
>>76104349
Catholic
>>76108698
>only the parts i agree with are literal
Literally an SJW nigger.
>>76104349
Catholic
>>76108763
Jesus Christ is the only true mouthpiece of God. The rest of the bible is man's interpretation of God.
>>76108763
I believe that the bible is Holy. I believe that the bible is the infallible Word of God. I believe that there are many ways to interpret the bible. I believe that there is only one correct way to interpret the bible. I believe that the correct way of reading the bible is NOT to take everything written in the bible to be a literal statement.
Did you follow? Or do I need to explain further?
>>76105888
Young-earth Creationism is incredibly silly. It's primarily motivated by a misreading of Scripture. They believe that death and all predation came into being with the Fall, but that's false, only the death of Man did.
>Romans 5 "Therefore as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all men sinned—sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law."
There's also the fact that Adam and Eve were sustained by eating of the Tree of Life, and presumably then could each have died. But this eating of fruit itself points to the death of plant life and even animal life.
So really their strained solutions are really unnecessary. Avoid them.
>>76108553
I'm just trying to say we're all creationists. I'm sorry if that doesn't come across.
God created the heavens and the earth as they are. Its very much a literal 6 days of creation in the Bible. Science does back up a young earth and a uniquely created solar system. Its just not popular with the world. The gospel message isn't popular either. That doesn't mean there are legitimate reasons for believing everything in the bible is absolutely true and a good way of interpreting data that we do have. Instead of trying to apply large dates to things that doesn't make any sense. We can look at the geological record and understand why if we date it with carbon 14, its no older than 6000~ years old but if we use other long form dates using the presumption that things evolved we have a different picture that doesn't really make any sense at all.
I'm not good at explaining this but I really would suggest watching stuff by Dr. Don patton and trying out Creation.com and Creationwiki.
If books are your thing. Try God Has Spoken and Genesis Flood 50th edition. There is a lot out there.
If youtube is your thing try Northwestcreation nestwork.
>>76109058
Compromising your faith to fit worldly beliefs is not a good idea.
>>76108778
>cannibalism of a dead jew as a ritual
>jesus is omnipresent, so he is inside us all RIGHT NOW and loves us
not weird or gay at all
>>76109111
Explain why Peter and Jesus Christ both referred to the great flood as a real historical event.
>>76108873
There are actually things in the bible that even very fundamental Christians think to not be "literally" true, but are still "metaphorically" truer than anything else that people consider true, using symbols to explain things. I think almost the whole bible is literal though
>>76105888
I have this book written by Pope Benedict XVI but I haven't read it yet. You might want to check it out though
>>76109431
Also explain why the lineages of Christ go back to Adam and Eve.
>>76104349
catholic
>>76109122
I admit that I have not investigated creationist claims thoroughly at all, but it's only because I see it as something of a non-issue.
What I will say is that the RCC does not teach that the 7 days are literally 24 hour days, and it does not prohibit Catholics from believing that they WERE in fact literally 7 24 hour days. As with many things, there is no definitive, binding Church teaching on this matter.
>>76109481
>>76109431
Where do I speak of a Flood or where do I say that Adam and Eve didn't exist?
That excellent reading ability rearing its head again, huh?
>>76109058
>I believe that there are many ways to interpret the bible.
Thou shalt not kill.
>we shouldn't kill on sundays
>we shouldn't kill at christmas day
>we shouldn't kill INNOCENT people
This kind of stupidity happens when people try to bend God's Word to their own desires, to justify their lifestyle or beliefs. The same thing happened in Catholicism.
Pharisees are just like Catholics. God rebuked those people then, and since He doesn't change...
>well God said this, but the Pope on the other hand...
>well God said this, but did He really mean it?
>well God said this, but He probably means this...
Daily reminder, this garbage is satanism and directly caused the fall of man.
Genesis 3:1
Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
Daily reminder that your enemy caused man to doubt God's Word.
>>76108901
Are you the macaroni that was roleplaying as a militant atheist today?
>>76109239
>compromising my faith
Never did I ever.
>>76104349
orthodox
>>76108022
I never said the Flood didn't happen, I just don't believe the dinosaurs and shit were around then.
>>76107911
>but I do believe that humans were created by God and did not descend from a common ancestor of monkeys gorillas and apes
Yeah I could believe this too, I take no issue there.
>>76108085
>calling apostles and prophets liars tantamount to calling God a liar
Humans aren't God. The Bible was written by humans, who could only give it their best at understanding God. And I wouldn't call them liars so much as mistaken, or just not speaking literally.
>>76108873
God and Jesus used metaphors in dreams and parables to get His point across. I think the only issue you should take with these interpretations is the times when people try to use them as leverage to say the Bible is outright false.
Lastly, what even is 7 days if they started before we had a formed, spinning Earth?
>>76109567
It isn't a nonissue though. Look at how much a great lie like evolution has damaged the faith?
Its illogical to believe that Christ existed and is God, and things evolved when the Bible says the exact opposite. The stars were created as they are. The Kinds of animals were created as they are. The Ark was a real boat that carried all the Kinds of animals in pairs or 7s.
Things like this should be addressed and not compromised. God is not a liar and the data shows he isn't. We have just passed the buck to people who would happily interpret data in a atheist worldly way.
>>76109710
no. I am prophecy macaroni
>>76109587
I really don't understand why you believe in a old earth at all then.
>>76109671
>a lot of nonsense about Catholics being evil
>a lot of regurgitated propaganda
>no logic, no argument, poor presentation
0.5/10 and I'm being generous there, friend. Look not to your own understanding....
>>76109806
I do believe dinosaurs were around then walking with people. We have fossils showing footprints of people and dinosaurs side by side and the bones of dinosaurs often have blood and blood vessels in them still which should of decayed LONG AGO.
Not to mention that the geological record is a mess and is more like looking at one single catastrophic event. I.E the flood.
>>76109899
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Earth_creationism#Age_of_the_Earth
>>76110011
protestants will never have this much swag:
https://my.mixtape.moe/yerinm.webm
>>76110134
>We have fossils showing footprints of people and dinosaurs side by side and the bones of dinosaurs often have blood and blood vessels in them still which should of decayed LONG AGO.
American education.
>>76110159
http://creation.com/age-of-the-earth
http://creation.com/how-old-is-the-earth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxMkMBXAVZ8
We can play this game of cat and mouse if you want to.
>>76109839
For me, the issue is peoples' seemingly TOTAL adherence to the theory of macroevolution, kinda like i originally said. I find that "evolutionists" are often just as much if not MORE religious than their Christian neighbours.
>>76110291
http://creation.com/unpermineralized-hadrosaur-bones-alaska
>>76110457
>creation.com
>>76110423
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UoTPExYpIM&index=3&list=PLftzcs-q3kU7pR8s8S6_LkyH6Y_fe1BWm
You might enjoy this playlist.
>>76110503
>*tips fedora
>>76110571
I'm not an atheist. You Americans are just retards.
>>76110645
The love of God just isn't in you.
>>76110684
A brain is not in you.
>>76110736
>>76110645
What a nationalist. Tell me that when you are in hell, faggot.
>>76110736
I'm not the one who offhandedly dismisses the thought that God created things as he said he did and calls him a liar.
>>76110736
Belarus bringing the bantz
>>76110849
>Literalism
>>76110802
I will see you there.
>>76110849
THe book of genesis is not literally written by God, bro
>>76110937
>I will see you there.
Nope. Unlike you I work for god as one of his servants.
>>76109839
>The Ark was a real boat that carried all the Kinds of animals in pairs or 7s.
I don't doubt this. Hell, I don't even doubt things that are physically impossible, that stuff isn't an issue for God, but evolution is something we see happening within our lifespans. One species of finch splitting into fourteen that can no longer spawn fertile offspring on the Galapagos Islands, this is something that has been documented. I don't think there's much wrong with believing what you believe, but I do take issue with how much you dwell on this, to the point you'd denounce fellow Christians as heretical. That is what hurts people, that is the shit that makes atheists of us. You don't have to agree, but don't shun. All we know is that those words were written, it's not like we need to follow one way of interpreting them if we still have our faith that in some way, it's truthful and valuable information. Someone straight-up calling Genesis "bullshit" would be reprimandable, but those here simply believe the description of creation is as it is for the sake of another reason or a lesson.
Not taking something literally doesn't mean we don't believe it as truth. No one called Jesus a liar for telling parables, he had very good reason for each of them.
>>76110939
The book of Genesis was written by Moses as an account given to him by God.
So yes it is.
>>76110999
You don't get to decide whether you go to heaven or not. Nobody knows which one you will go to except God.
>post yfw "pagan" LARPers can't come up with any better arguments than screaming "LE KEK!!!"
>when your parents are unironically Christian
I think it's kind of sad tbqh
I don't understand how anyone can believe in a god or gods when there is absolutely zero existence for any of it
>>76110645
>generalizing a whole group of people that includes tons of different races and cultures that vary region to region
No lad, it is you that is le "retard"
>>76111077
I know but I'm just baiting you and you're failling for it pretty good.
>>76111241
>I was only pretending
>>76111221
>generalizing a whole group of people
You might be on the wrong board.
>>76111241
Brilliant! Ha ha! Merely pretending to be retarded. What a classic jape, my friend. Have an upvote!
>>76111161
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_of_the_Sun
the english version of the wiki page sucks. In the italian version there are translations of eye witnesses. One of them was a natural sciences professor, who describes the event in a very empirical way and admits he could neither explain not had he ever experienced something like that before
Another miracle:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RUvrSu6_CQ
>>76111033
We have never seen evolution. Evolution implies the introduction of new information into the system.
We have only ever seen divergences via deletion of information implying a original source Kind of animal that all the ones we have today branched from.
We see a downward horizontal spiral downward in everything from wolves to dogs and humans every generation. Dogs are unhealthy and wolves are not because they are closer to the original kind. Humans every generation create 100 more deleterious mutations than the last.
What we have seen and what the data tells us is that we are spiraling down, and divergences in species happen because of epigenetics, deletions of information or negative mutations.
>>76111314
Nah, I'm on the right board. It's just nice to let reality filter in sometimes to make sure people don't actually believe 100% of le ebin meme they spout
>you can only behave in one way or you're on the wrong board
Lol, no
>>76111161
>2016
>Believing something came from nothing
OUT
>>76111405
Not all miracles are from God. Remember Peter said that even the devil can show up as an angel of light. Still its worth pointing out stuff like this.
>>76111241
truly a fisher of men
>>76111440
>Evolution implies the introduction of new information into the system.
Which is a result of genetic mutation.
>>76111530
>Nah, I'm on the right board
I do not think so.
>>76111318
>>76111314
Oh man, caught a big one and it even looks like it's a sword fish. Oh man, what a day.
>tfw graduated last night
>tfw dating a based Catholic qt voting for Trump
God hath smiled upon me...
>>76111405
Glory to God!
>>76111587
No genetic mutation is simply scrambling the information that already existed. Take an egg and toss it into a blender and you'll understand what I mean. Same information, just scrambled.
>>76111655
No, that is not what a mutation is.
>>76111405
>Auguste Meessen, following the work done before him by the Belgian skeptic Marc Hallet,[21] has stated sun miracles cannot be taken at face value and that the reported observations were optical effects caused by prolonged staring at the sun. Meessen contends that retinal after-images produced after brief periods of sun gazing are a likely cause of the observed dancing effects. Similarly Meessen states that the color changes witnessed were most likely caused by the bleaching of photosensitive retinal cells.[22] Meessen observes that Sun Miracles have been witnessed in many places where religiously charged pilgrims have been encouraged to stare at the sun. He cites the apparitions at Heroldsbach, Germany (1949) as an example, where many people within a crowd of over 10,000 testified to witnessing similar observations as at Fátima.[22] Meessen also cites a British Journal of Ophthalmology article that discusses some modern examples of Sun Miracles.[23] While Meessen suggests possible psychological or neurological explanations for the apparitions he notes, "It is impossible to provide any direct evidence for or against the supernatural origin of apparitions".[22] He also notes that "[t]here may be some exceptions, but in general, the seers are honestly experiencing what they report." [22]
>De Marchi states that the prediction of an unspecified "miracle", the abrupt beginning and end of the alleged miracle of the sun, the varied religious backgrounds of the observers, the sheer numbers of people present, and the lack of any known scientific causative factor make a mass hallucination unlikely.[24] That the activity of the sun was reported as visible by those up to 18 kilometres (11 mi) away, also precludes the theory of a collective hallucination or mass hysteria.[24]
You'll have to try harder
>>76111536
They literally think the universe broke the laws of thermodynamics and created itself without a god...I don't get it...so it's like they believe in miracles but they don't want to call it God...for whatever reason
>>76111405
>>>/papaboys/
>>76111694
https://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/primer/mutationsanddisorders/genemutation
Yes yes it is.
Thread theme by based black men
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuIRJWcX4Tw
>this thread
I think being completely honest with oneself in following the Bible to the best of their ability, seeking out information regarding it, and doing their honest best to serve God is the most important thing here.
>>76111314
>>76111318
To be fair, we're a pretty fun crowd to bait.
>>76111440
Evolution and devolution are two sides of the same coin, and those finches aren't necessarily devolved or unhealthy. I meant they couldn't breed with the other species, they could still do so with their own kinds.
>>76111587
...but I am on the right board...
Does your autism only allow for people with the same childish way of thinking to be here? If it does, sorry, I'm going to post here anyways
>>76111724
Life is also a miracle but for them they have to introduce time as another miracle producer because to them something impossible to occur must happen over a long period of time. They're really having a struggle with the facts.
>>76111539
>Not all miracles are from God
wrong
>Peter said that even the devil can show up as an angel of light
he can show up as an angel of light, but he cannot perform miracles. The feats he does are no good, his predictions don't come true, and he makes theological mistakes when he speaks.The Church examines the events very clearly to determine if an apparition is true or not:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhabDczs0uE
For example the devil cannot imitate the feet of Our Lady. Our Lady of Fatima had visible feet.
>>76111896
Well Devolution implies mutation and deletion from a original Kind that God created.
Evolution implies everything just smashed its self together in an impossible event and started breeding with itself and somehow introducing new magical information from nowhere.
Anyone ever hear of the idea that heaven is a cube?
>>76104349
Methodist reporting in
>>76111709
>>>76111709
call me back when they refute the miracle of the Sun in Fatima faggot. All you are saying is "hey, we cannot prove it's false, but it could be false anyway because there have been completely different event in history that are somewhat explainable". Read the eye witness accounts. If you want to disprove it you'll have to try harder than that
>>76105527
Can I be Lot?
>worshipping Joseph's wife's son and his nowhere to be seen father
>>76111980
I guess the sorcerer in Acts and the False Prophets who will do many miracles in Revelation is totally ignored by you?
>>76104349
Oriental Orthodox reporting in.
That feel when i have depresion for one and half year and only thing that keeps me alive and quite happy is my faith in Jesus Christ our lord and savior. All fedorians and so called "rational thinking" people will never change my mind.
God Bless you all and sorry for my english
>>76111980
I think you're wrong though. I think in the book of Revelation it talks about how the Anti-Christ will perform miracles to get people to believe in him
>>76104349
Episcopalian here
>>76112272
God be with you in your trials and needs always brother in Christ.
At the end of the day none of this matters and Jesus Christ is our King and Lord.
>>76112272
God bless you too :)
>>76112155
>>76112336
he can do stuff that is in the realm of possibilities of fallen angels. Like levitating, moving objects, stuff like this. He cannot move the fucking sun.
Also you are implying that the devil appears just to tell us "repent and believe in Jesus Christ or you'll end up in hell". You know that's what the apparitions in Fatima were about, right?
Do you guys have reason to believe he is physically real or do you just want to believe in him?
>>76112272
The peace of the Lord be with you always. Lovely picture btw
What translation of the bible do you guys use?
>>76112465
I agree with that. It just depends on what you meant by "miracle." Now that you made it clear, I agree
>>76112482
Dont be rude my brother in Christ
>>76112641
King James
>>76112465
Satan has given many people over to delusion and illusions and the fact you're so irritated shows you'd rather listen to the whore of Babylon than Jeremiah when he talks about the "queen of heaven" and Revelation.
>>76112641
KJV
>>76112540
You can't justify He who is the source of all reason
We even try to test Him, when the very idea of God is beauty in and of itself?
>>76112465
Also the devil always mixes truth with a lie to condemn us to hell which was reserved for him in the first place but he wants company.
>>76112641
based Douay-Rheims, translation from the Latin Vulgate
Great online version: http://www.drbo.org/
>>76112540
I believe he is physically real and is sitting on the throne of his Father in heaven right now.
>>76112133
So your belief is God is based upon a supposed miracle that occurred from a time when you were not alive?
Pretty shaky
No wonder Italy is such a garbage dump
Look at the most religious countries in the world and you'll find that they are almost all shitholes
Religion is for teaching children morality that's it
I'm off to sleep now, mates. I'm dog tired after a week of 12 hour shifts.
I'll leave with a verse from the Holy Bible.
1 Chronicles 29:11
>Yours, O Lord, is the greatness, and the power,
and the glory, and the victory, and the majesty,
for everything in the heavens and the earth is Yours.
Yours is the kingdom, O Lord,
and You exalt Yourself as head above all.
Pic is inside my church. Goodnight, and God bless you all.
>>76112912
>literally the most beautiful and awe-inspiring artwork in the world
>garbage dump
also, *tips fedora*
>>76112969
'might mate, have a good one
>>76112691
Episcopalians are literally a meme, just become Catholic or at least Orthodox
>>76112641
TysiÄ…clecia. Or Jakub Wujek.
>>76112133
I'm Christian and I refute that miracle as anything from God. The Bible speaks strongly against the "queen of heaven".
>>76112969
God bless you friend and give you your long awaited rest
>>76112079
>Well Devolution implies mutation and deletion from a original Kind that God created.
Did you consider it may just be a deviation from the original path of evolution that God set out? Just because things are evolving doesn't mean they become more or less perfect, ancient creatures weren't just flawed stepping stones, but perfect creations in their own ways.
>>76112110
You're thinking about the new Jerusalem, which is in Heaven. [spoiler]I imagined it as more of a golden, spherical space station.
>>76112540
Of course we want to believe in him, but historical evidence is what gives many of us a foundation, as well. There's also stuff like "how did the universe come from nothing", but I see that as stuff that science may or may not find ample explanation for, while some historical evidence of supernatural or miraculous events, from the accounts of many authors, is more solid at this point for one's faith.
[spoiler]I also really want to believe Lovecraftian horrors exist and angels described in the Bible are prime examples of these.
>>76112658
I think it's good to be wary and suspicious of private revelations. That said, the Church examines them very accurately and never pronounces them "worthy of belief" (even if they deem it true, you are not obliged to believe it, you are simply allowed to, as the standard stance is not to belive it until the Church has decided its nature).
Medjugorje and Garabandal, for example, are false apparitions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ob8bHdjiPZA
>>76112812
The Church examines the messages to see if there are theological mistakes or things that go against Church doctrine. It's one of the many reasons why Medjugorje is all bullshit. The Madonna would never say "all religions are equal in the eyes of God"
>>76112912
>So your belief is God is based upon a supposed miracle
The Catholic Church is a long uninterrupted story of miracles and saints. It is not simply one.
For example many Catholic saints and mystics since the 1300s were given visions that in the second half of the 20th century, the devil would be liberated for a period of time and left free to roam and tempt people into sin. Mind you, this was pretty consistent among people from all over the globe, who had no knowledge of the other prophecies and lived in different epochs. Can you tell me what happened in the second half of the 20th century? Oh right, pure degeneracy and immorality. Even more incredible thing is, even when the date of the 20th came to a close, the prophecy remained the same. there are no prophecies today from catholic saints telling us that the devil will be freed in the 23th century or something like that. It's all consistent.
>>76113220
>spoiler
>spoiler
I'll never learn will I
>>76110279
>mfw i will never be the pope, leading hundreds of cardinals in a procession
why even live tbqh
>>76113220
I've always thought that existance itself was just a given, and that there wasn't a beginning.
>>76102841
>[YouTube] Jesus heals sick servant (embed)
Why would God do this? In all of history, he gave one person the power to do relatively small amounts of Magic? So that everyone from that point on would be jealous of both Jesus and those who were lucky enough to be healed by him during random encounters? God's idea being that this would make everyone in the world worship him and hope for the return of an upgraded Jesus who can do some more magic? It doesn't make sense, like everything else in Christianity.
>>76113284
The Catholic Church is really just the world's biggest gathering of pedophiles when it all comes down to it
The bottom line is this; God either doesn't exist or he is unimaginably cruel
>>76113128
>he rejects Christ by rejecting the Apostles and still thinks he'll go to Heaven because he reads an unfinished Bible
>>76113514
You have to pay closer attention. The obvious conclusion from what you say is that not all shall come to be saved regardless - Matthew 7:13-14
>>76113005
>also, *tips fedora*
>>76113740
>le pedophiles raping le children :(((
>>>/reddit/
There were no "pedophiles" "raping children." There were faggots groping biologically adult men.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBFyrKYI6TU
hmmmm... really makes you think
>>76113810
t. registered sex offender and former catholic priest
>>76113747
Why do you people get so cruel and vindictive?
Jesus is the only way to the Father. That's it. Everything else is secondary. And there is no queen of heaven
>>76114008
Did the redditor get triggered by facts?
>>76114009
m8 it's because some of us are sick and tired of hearing utterly meme-tier objections being leveled as stunning arguments. You'd be Catholic if you went deeper into history instead of just treating the Bible like the Koran.
>thinking the Davidic King's mother didn't reign as Queen
>thinking Christ isn't King of the New Israel
>thinking Mary isn't therefore Queen
>>76113220
The Bible says they were created as they are. So no I don't consider it anymore. Not after seeing the data.
>>76113284
I guess Mormonism and Jehovahs witnesses are totally out of your consciousness. They are heretical and they change the word of God or water it down.
>>76114009
They know they don't have the spirit in them.
>>76113747
The tongues have stopped. John the Apostle got the last Revelation. It is the only one we need.
>>76114009
Jesus is king. Mary is the mother of Jesus. In a monarchy the mother of the king is queen regent.
>>76113740
>God either doesn't exist or he is unimaginably cruel
but you are God
so which are you?
non-existent or unimaginably cruel?
>>76112705
>>76112753
Is it because of the possible misconstruing of the original word, right?
>>76112711
>1And a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed in the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head
>>76114259
>I guess Mormonism and Jehovahs witnesses are totally out of your consciousness. They are heretical and they change the word of God or water it down.
wut? what are you talking about? What does that have to do with anything I said?
>>76114379
Read the beginning of Revelation. Signified.
The 12 stars are the 12 tribes of Israel. The woman is the Church.
>>76114348
I'm not all powerful, all knowing, or all good
The Christian bible describes God as having these qualities
>>76114252
>facts
>none given other than a blanket statement with no source
I can find essentially countless cases of catholic priests molesting young boys
Not my fault you subscribed to a pedophilic belief system
>>76113427
That too. And that's not really something we can exactly visualize or comprehend, so I don't think one should build faith upon it any which way. Like, if someone's faith relied on the theory that God created everything in a big bang, and it was later somehow discovered that the Universe is an infinite cycle of creation and destruction, it'd rock them hard and possibly obliterate their faith. Even though it wouldn't necessarily disprove the existence of a God or anything.
>>76113514
Jesus was God you dingus, and his power came from God. In fact, Jesus had a totally human body and mind, his miracles were basically the equivalent to that of a human's at full potential, as if they had "maxed-out" faith.
And other humans like Elijah and Noah did this stuff too, though in all cases, Jesus included, it was the master entity actually performing these miracles, using them as conduits.
>>76114327
Not that I know enough to call you wrong, but God doesn't necessarily operate solely within the systems of three-dimensional beings.
>>76114496
>there is only one layer of meaning in a verse in Revelations
L M A O
Also right before that passage he saw the ark of the covenant, making a direct correlation between Mary and the Ark.
>>76114454
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Jeremiah+44%3A18-25&version=KJV
>>76114369
Sort of, I don't like the NIV and most other most other modern versions; I don't mind the ESV though. But really, I just like the history and cultural significance of the KJV. I'm not one of those KJV-onlyists though.
>>76114496
Which Church?
protip: The One Holy Apostolic Catholic Church. Amen.
>>76113740
>buying into Jewish tricks of "catholic pedos"
I thought /pol/ was redpilled. The amount of pedos in the Catholic clergy (which is made up of imperfect humans) is equivalent to the percentage in the general population.
The public school systems even have higher percentages of pedophiles (where 1 in 10 children are sexually abused).
>>76114645
I never said that. Why are you so offended that Mary was just a human?
>>76114369
Yeah, I've just heard it's the best so it's what I use. A lot of modern translations change the words to the point where it changes the meaning of the passage and are actually leaving lines out. It's subtly devilish honestly. Luckily there will always be reliable texts though
>>76114259
>John the Apostle got the last Revelation
Where did you get that idea, the Council of Trent?
>>76114593
>le pedophiles le pedophiles le pedophiles XDDDD give me attention XDDDD
>>>/reddit/
>>76114369
KJV makes Jesus say he is "The Son of God" whereas the original greek shows he says "A" son of God (we are all Sons of God and there was never any need to put Jesus on a pedestal like the churches have done)
this also make the example of Jesus completely useless to follow because you are not him, you are already a Son of God follow your own path, you have no need of priests and ceremonies they make no difference, they are completely meaningless, unless that is your path in which case it doesn't matter either
>>76114674
again, this has nothing to do with what I am saying. You are literally incapable of articulating anything and mention a title used by a pagan deity as proof whereas it really isn't.
The other religions call their God "God" too. OMG ANON OUR RELIGION IS FALSE BECAUSE WE USED THE SAME TITLE. WE ARE PAGANS AFTER ALL.
CHRISTIANITY BTFO
Sweet these are still going into the morning, god bless everyone.
>>76114765
>buying into the Jewish trick it was "pedophiles" in the first place
80%+ of the cases were homosexual abuse, not pedophilia. But that would disrupt the narrative.
>>76114771
so you admit it was her described in that verse?
Also stop strawmanning, I never said Mary is divine
>>76114835
I get that idea from the Bible. Jesus Christ said John the Baptist was the last of his kind.
John the Apostle received the prophecy from Jesus Christ who also received the prophecy from the Father Most High.
What version of God is the true God, New or Old Testament? How do you come to terms with the acts of Old Testament God (committing genocide multiple times)? The Old Testament troubles me
>>76114906
Welcome back, anon. I remember you from the previous thread. :)
>>76114884
The truth hurts I guess. Pricked in the heart by the Word of God.
2 Timothy 2:15 KJV
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Hebrews 4:12 KJV
12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
What does /csg/ think about legionarism, or religious fascism?
>>76114941
If shes not divine according to your own words, she cant descend from heaven and give people a message. Only the Spirit of God and the Angels can do this.
>>76115077
Answer me. Pagan call their God "God". By your logic we are pagans.
Do you think we are pagans, yes or not?
>>76115178
She is above the angels, if the angels can do it so can she. You refuted yourself.
>>76115026
They are the same God. The idea that they aren't was brought up very early on in the history of Christianity and refuted almost immediately. When Jesus said "before Abraham came to be, I AM" (in John 8:58), He was literally claiming to be God. That's why the Jews He was talking to tried to stone him.
>>76115026
Both are the true God. Check these videos out, a fella lectures about the morality of the OT God.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdYXi3nKWPE&list=PL-0zpu2toenad9bp9Fox3oIFzLv4jWZPb
Also, Jesus in Revelation is pretty hardcore and means serious business, so there really isn't much a difference between the Testaments as you may think.
>>76115178
Angels are not divine.
They might be holy, but divinity implies godhood.
>>76114874
Psalms 2
>Psa 2:6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
>Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
>Psa 2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
>Psa 2:9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
>Psa 2:10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth
>Psa 2:11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
>Psa 2:12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.
No. He is more than just another Son...He is I am that I am.
>Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am
>>76115402
Oh, this is a YouTube playlist, so copy the link.
>>76115026
They're both the same God. Yehovah means The Existent One. Yahweh means He Is. Yeshua means HE IS WHO SAVES.
John 8:58 KJV
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
In the Greek he is saying he is the God of the OT. He came first as the Lamb. Next he will come as the Lion. You and nobody else wants to be around to see his wrath poured out on the world.
The great flood probably killed billions of people and it was completely righteous and just to do. God already has given us mercy of forgiveness through his own sons blood. We either accept it or get burned.
>>76115435
>He is I am that I am.
You are I am that I am
>>76115580
Answer me. Pagans call their God "God". By your logic we are pagans.
Do you think we are pagans, yes or no?
>>76115350
Do you know who the Most High is? Yehovah. You know who his only begotten Son is? Yeshua. The Spirit of God is the Holy Ghost and the Holy Spirit, the Comforter and Suppressor of Sin.
Elohim implies plurality and it is the first word used to describe God in the Bible. He is One and 3 but thoroughly HE.
There is only one God and all others are false idols created by man.
>>76115580
>Yehovah
Literally an incorrect latinization of the tetragrammaton.
>>76115421
It also means heavenly. Holy means set-apart or sanctified. Either would be correct when referring to angels but now we're playing semantics and all resemblance of sanity has left the room.
>>76115827
I wasn't even talking to you. Do you believe in Yehovah and Yeshua Christ and the Spirit of God?
>>76104349
Nondenominational special snowflake here.
Thanks for the thread,>>76102841
What's everyone here's views on Hell?
How does it feel to be an adult and still believe in fairy tales? :^)
>>76115899
I also typed out Yahweh for your pleasure but you found in you to be offended anyway.
>>76115435
>Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am
This was Jesus containing God The Son
God the Son is 1/3 of the trinity, the Logos, and the Logos can appear in any man at any time it chooses, it appeared in Buddha Krishna and if you take a high enough dose of psychedelics it may appear in you
again none of these people who have had the Logos in them need be put on a pedestal above yourself when the Logos may appear in anyone at any time, though they may be appreciated for what they were
>>76115986
And semantics it is, because one was probably using one definition and the other used the other.
>>76115855
you didn't answer my question.
Mary as queen of heaven is a title given to her as mother of Jesus, who is King. In the davidic kingdom the mother of the king was the queen regent, and the davidic kingdom, exactly like the Church, is a mirror and imitation of the Kingdom of Heaven.
Now, you say that is not allowed, because "queen of heaven" as a title is used by some pagan deity.
Now I will ask. Pagans also call their deity "God". Does that mean that we are whorshipping a pagan god everytime we say God?
Jesus is King, but there are plenty of kings people have served throughout history, protestants included. Were they all sinning and being idolaters for having a king and calling him as such?
Answer honestly and stop repeating bible verses without connecting your brain to your mouth first
>>76116151
>using the smiley with the carrot nose
:-)
>>76115170
I'm not sure how good those death squads were, but I like the idea of a strict Christian government
>>76115855
JW alert, I repeat JW alert
>The ultimate heresy: Jesus is not God
May God have mercy on your soul, friend.
>>76116200
Thanks for the laugh demon worshiper.
>>76114998
>believing the Bible for no reason besides muh feelz
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHxt6NYTDqs
>>76115855
>>76116065
m8 stop using those Semitic pagan words like "El", do you want to go to Hell?
>>76112169
Coptic?
>>76116162
>Offended
Just annoyed.
is purgatory a meme?
>>76116065
>yehovah
JW heretics >>>/out/
>>76116228
I trust God and I don't trust you.
Through prayer all I've received concerning the Mary aspirations is verses on false prophets and their miracles, and the queen of heaven in the OT.
If you choose to trust a falsehood, a false life you shall lead.
Mary is not the queen of heaven. She was a very good woman who birthed Jesus Christ for the glory of God and that is enough.
>>76116354
Nope Armenian Apostolic
>>76116112
Unsure. I've always considered Universalism a possibility that could even apply to Satan, not knowing it had a name till just now, but I think I mostly believe in Traditionalism. Though I don't think we can say exactly what hell's like, and I believe what's down there is a product of the sin of humanity and demons.
>>76116151
Breddy gud, we have the best monsters.
>>76116511
>I am wrong but the voices in my head tell me I am right so I will completely ignore your evidence
God is Wisdom. God would never want you to disregard your ability to discern the truth through the reason he gave and fall back instead on prejudice and superstition
>>76116268
Poison out of the serpents mouth in your post.
I said no such thing. I spelled out that Jesus Christ is God but God is also a trinity.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+8%3A48-59&version=KJV
>>76116511
>Through prayer all I've received concerning the Mary aspirations is verses on false prophets and their miracles, and the queen of heaven in the OT.
And no wonder, for even Satan masquerades as an angel of light.
2 Corinthians 11:14
>>76116511
>I navel gazed and decided I was right because otherwise I wouldn't feel good
Shameful.
>>76116425
Yehovah is what Jews call him to this day. I'm not a JW. I'm a fundamentalist Christian.
>>76116364
Semantics.
>>76116349
I guess you don't appreciate the complexity of God.
>>76116278
I trust the Bible because it has never lied about anything and besides that archeology bears it out and we have manuscripts of the NT before 50AD where the Dead Sea Scrolls were found as well.
The OT and the NT has not changed since then.
>>76116853
Do you enjoy proving my point? God gave me that verse exactly concerning the "miracle" you believe in.
>>76116709
Putting words in other peoples mouth is what Satan does. Are you a servant of God full of patience and love or are you a servant of Satan?
At least I can rejoice I am hated.
>>76116746
"Jehovah's Witnesses" do not believe that Jesus is God, but rather, that Jesus was of the spirit of Michael the Archangel. Call me the serpent again, though, I love to hear your reasoning, and it MUST be divinely inspired, I just know it!
>>76117318
>I am not a JW heretic
>I am a special snowflake non-denominational heretic
same thing
>>76117318
>I guess you don't appreciate the complexity of God.
Says the guy who thinks that the name of God is a magical invocation that has to be spelled and pronounced exactly right.
And, for the record, Jews absolutely do not call God by the name YHWH, and even if they did, since when are we supposed to follow Jews?
>I trust the Bible because it has never lied about anything and besides that archeology bears it out and we have manuscripts of the NT before 50AD where the Dead Sea Scrolls were found as well.
You can say the same about the Koran. The only reason you're not a Muslim is because you're an American with no critical thinking skills.
Only by the authority of the Catholic Church do you believe the Bible, none other, get over yourself.
>>76117318
>I'm not a JW. I'm a fundamentalist Christian
>fundamentalist
You've got some ill-founded fundamentals, brother. What makes you SO certain and SO convicted that Catholicism is of the devil? Please, I would love it if you would respond with sound rational reasoning.
>>76104349
Catholocuck
>>76117318
>Putting words in other peoples mouth is what Satan does. Are you a servant of God full of patience and love or are you a servant of Satan?
You literally just accuse me of being a servant of satan but you are incapable of refuting anything I have said. If you were on the side of Truth you wouldn't have any problem doing that. Just admit you are wrong, repent and accept that the Virgin Mary was sinless and she sits as queen of heaven next to Christ the King.
I am a servant of God and that is why I ask you to analys the evidence and realise you are wrong.
>>76117350
>>76117397
Read your own words both of you after praying to God.
First off. JW's have false doctrine, we can agree to this. Secondly that doesn't make Gods name a blaspheme to mention. Thirdly do you not believe in prayer?
>>76117517
I spelled out both the English representations of his name. This is his name
יהוה
>>76102841
I hear if you feeling like talking to people you can go into the church even if you're not religious and they'll make you feel better.
For me I feel like my life is on autopilot mode. Rarely do I stop and look around. But the problem is, when I do stop and look around I get questions like 'why am I here, who am I living for, am I enjoying life, what does the future hold, is it worth continuing'. I consider myself happy, but only when I don't think about things too much. If there's a way I can overcome this I would like to hear it.
>>76117672
>Secondly that doesn't make Gods name a blaspheme to mention
At this point you just go on spouting strawmen
>Thirdly do you not believe in prayer?
Yes, and your point is?
Guys... 4 real there is no god. Just get over you damn sky Jew already. Also, wtf does this have to do with politics?
Take this shit to /x/
>>76117318
>God gave me that verse exactly concerning the "miracle" you believe in.
See >>76116853
Remember that Muhammad thought he had been visited by Gabriel.
>>76117672
>First off. JW's have false doctrine, we can agree to this
Agreed!
>Secondly that doesn't make Gods name a blaspheme to mention
Wait, when did I say anything about blasphemy? It wasn't a part of this dialogue until just now.
>Thirdly do you not believe in prayer?
100% out of nowhere, pure conjecture, and mildly offensive. Of course I believe in prayer. What are you talking about?
I'm beginning to lose faith in your ability to reason.
>>76117670
I.. I kind of like that picture. I'm not a Christian, but it's a good one.
>>76117747
Becoming a Christian won't help you stop asking these questions, it will only give you satisfactory answers and will give you rest/comfort from what bothers you about these questions.
>>76117672
>thinking God has a literal name and it's not just an analogy for what is ultimately unknowable
This is what Protestants actually believe.
>>76118004
have more then
>>76105090
Kinda is.
>>76117850
>Take this shit to /x/
I kind of agree, even as a Christian. God and miracles are supernatural things, paranormal by our human standards, so it fits a lot better than in some political board.
And /x/ is a lot cooler than /pol/ really
>>76117528
Don't assume all fundamentalist are the same. I only said that for brevity. I believe the Word of God is in the original His perfectly given to us through his Prophets and Apostles who are now long gone.
I believe God is not a liar. I believe the Bible is very complex but understandable and consistent.
I don't believe all Catholics are bad. I never did.
>>76117806
What is your problem with me? I believe Jesus Christ is God and King of kings and Lord of lords. I don't believe in JW heresy. I don't believe that God is a liar and I believe the Bible in the original is the perfect Word. I love God above this whole world.
>>76117855
I wasn't given a vision. I opened my bible and read it. I wasn't given any new revelation. I was simply shown what was already written.
You really should know that God did not leave us stranded and has given all his true believers the Holy Spirit to indwell in them and guide them.
>>76117961
I'm replying to a lot of people at once.
>>76118116
Christianity threads get pruned by the mods on /x/.
Protestants:
>look, you're doing this wrong, the bible says so
Catholics:
>shut up, homo-lover, you have 40,000 denominations, the Pope tells us what to do, not the bible, we have tradition we don't need scripture, we can just interpret it however we want to but it's too hard, the Pope and saints do that for us
>>76118207
I got banned for posting a single bible verse there.
They really don't want any follower of Jesus Christ talking about their heresy to which most of regardless of our denomination agree that demon worship is wrong.
>>76102841
>Catholics and Protestants
Why are u making divisions? We know your script.
You are trying to create division by excluding orthodoxy, which was the form originated from the 12 disciples following Jesus.
Kike zionist, confess Jesus Christ is lord.
Catholic is satanic and protestants are heretics.
Orthodoxy is the way.
Truth will always be truth, and lies will always be lies, however much time have passed.
>>76118267
>>shut up, homo-lover, you have 40,000 denominations, the Pope tells us what to do, not the bible, we have tradition we don't need scripture, we can just interpret it however we want to but it's too hard, the Pope and saints do that for us
>thinking anybody actually believes this except in wishful thinking fee-fee land
>>76118400
>OrthoLARPing this hard
>>76118400
He doesn't mean that at all. Stop trying to be divisive yourself. Be long suffering and patient.
>>76118118
>What is your problem with me?
I have no problem. It is you who go around saying that asking for Mary's intercession is a sin and that she is a pagan deity because of her title of queen of heaven. That goes against Scripture and I bet Jesus would find it very offensive to his mother. I simply point out to you that you are wrong without any animosity.
>>76118267
>strawmanning this hard
Sacred Tradition and Scripture are intertwined. We understand one with the other, we interpret one with the other. They are inseparable and come from the Jesus, through to the apostles, to the Church fathers, and to the Church through the ages.
S t a y M a d
>>76118400
Schismatics BTFO!
Btw thanks to the american bro who shared the archangel stuff in the last /csg/ very informative.
>>76118118
>I wasn't given a vision. I opened my bible and read it. I wasn't given any new revelation. I was simply shown what was already written.
So when you said you received verses through prayer you mean you just read the bible. Seems like you were just trying to be pretensions earlier, then.
>You really should know that God did not leave us stranded and has given all his true believers the Holy Spirit to indwell in them and guide them.
I am aware. You are the special snowflake saying that the true believers being guided are some tiny fraction so small that they wouldn't show up on most graphs.
I converted to Islam but I love and respect the teachings of Jesus.
>>76118484
46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
>>76118576
I wanna see this stuff, angels are cool
>>76118452
Zionists kikes have hated Christians for millenias, your hate will never stop.
What region did Jesus Christ do his work in? Middle east; Syria, Jerusalem etc. What kind of Christians are they there? Orthodox catholics.
Jesus Christ is lord, and every mouth and every tongue should confess it.
>>76118484
>Sacred Tradition and Scripture are intertwined
Let's imagine it's 500BC.
>everyone around you is a Jew
>they've decided to do their own thing, instead of following God
>they put it in a huge book, slapped a label on it and called it a tradition
Here's where it gets interesting;
1) You go along with them, because it's tradition
2) You put God and His Word above them, and go your own way and try to please God
Which do you do?
What does God do to you?
>>76118671
>I am aware. You are the special snowflake saying that the true believers being guided are some tiny fraction so small that they wouldn't show up on most graphs.
Don't put words in my mouth. I believe any Christian can read the Bible or open it randomly after prayer and receive if they believe verses they need to hear.
>>76118778
>for millenias
Zionism is a movement created by conservative Jews, a branch that didn't exist until recently.
>>76118778
Because that was the Byzantine Empire and they went into schism, not because it has some sort of magical protection. You might as well say the Maronites are the ones who've had the truth all along with that logic and they're Catholic.
>>76118724
that does not refute anything. Jesus was speaking to the masses, and when he did that, he always spoke trying to convey a lesson.
By your logic Mary isn't Jesus's mother, whereas we know she literally is.
Plenty more verses that prove me right and you wrong. Can you call her the Blessed Virgin Mary? Yes or no?
>>76118207
I'm an atheist and I am offended by this.
>>76118874
>created by atheist socialist Ashkenazim
FTFY
>>76104271
DEUS VULT!
>>76104349
The one true faith, Roman Catholicism here.
>holy war
War is not holy.
Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.
>>76118820
>I believe any Christian can read the Bible or open it randomly after prayer and receive if they believe verses they need to hear.
And yet the people who hold your exact beliefs are a tiny fraction that wouldn't be shown on most graphs. By your logic, almost nobody is a true believer. Also, I have no words to explain how absolutely superstitious that concept is.
>>76118787
I don't understand what you are trying to say 2bh
>>76119118
I hope one day you will understand.
>>76118787
Yep. I think a comparison can be drawn between this.
>Oral Law
>Talmud
And this.
>Church Fathers writings over the writings of the Apostles of Jesus Christ.
>The acceptance of known heretical books that contradict the rest of the Bible.
>Captial T tradition
>NEW PROPHECY!
At least Talmudic Jews have the decency to not profess having seen God recently.
>>76118929
She is the Blessed Virgin Mary but not the queen of heaven and I think its a insult to call her the latter. Its the same as calling her a pagan god to me.
>>76104271
DEUS VULT
>>76119186
The earliest Church Fathers personally knew Jesus, get over it.
>>76109390
no u
>>76104271
Deus vault
>>76119186
>not the queen of heaven and I think its a insult to call her the latter
I have already explained you why not only is that not an insult, but it's biblical
> Its the same as calling her a pagan god to me
I have already explained you that the title of queen of heaven does not imply any sory of divinity. It is a title that reflects her relation to Jesus. If you ponder about it, you will realise that all Catholic beliefs regarding Mary stem from her relation to Jesus. from the consequences that relation brings, and from nothing else.
>>76104271
'DEUS VULT'
>>76119263
And yet none of them said
>"The sabbath is no longer hallowed by God, so let's change the sabbath which we have observed for thousands of years to SUN DAY xD"
or
>"You know when the apostles were told to have bread and wine at passover? Well i'm telling you to do it 3 times every single sun day xD"
or
>"Just disregard this holy book which God said He will preserve, just do the tradition which we will write about that is not contained in this book xD"
>>76118118
>I believe God is not a liar
You keep saying this, apparently you're trying to imply that I am calling God a liar by not literally interpreting every book in the bible.
>I believe the Bible is very complex but understandable and consistent.
The bible is consistent in that it does not contradict itself. The bible is not consistent in that it is made up of many different genres of books and many different authors and were written many different time periods.
So how do we know how to correctly interpret the bible? And did God use the Catholic religion to pass down the bible from century to century? Why did He choose this way in order to let his Word be known?
>>76118963
It was created by people like Judah Alkalai, Yehuda Bibas (both Sephardic rabbis), and Theodor Herzl, who wasn't an atheist.
>>76119101
I never said that either. You really do love putting words in peoples mouths. This is the third time you've done it.
I don't believe that everyone in any domination isn't a believer. I believe there are many Christians in this world stumbling through religion to find the truth. The 7 letters to the churches from Jesus Christ are rather revealing. No church is perfect. There are always tares amongst the wheat. We are commanded not to pull them out lest the body of Christ falls apart.
Are you going to continue with this poison?
>>76119263
I don't think you understand what it means to replace already established Doctrine by God who lives in Eternity and never changes. It means a liar is about.
>>76118878
This are all lies.
Orthodox catholic is the way. Anyone with a theological background knows this.
Google "Jesuit Order" to find out the satanic way of Roman Catholic.
Schism or schism, Byzantine refused to step away from tradition and to fucking take money from people, how could pay priests to get sin removed, heresy!
>>76119515
God did no such thing as use the Catholic church to pass the Bible down. There are many instances of the Catholic church persecuting those who actually read the bible and questioned their actions based on what the bible says. Anytime someone tried to read the bible or eventually print one, guess which organization tried to prevent it through blood and terror?
Guess who has the blood of saints on their hands?
>>76119515
>literally interpreting every book in the bible.
God created things in 6 days. The bible says so.
>maybe He meant 6 trillion years after a huge explosion happened for no reason and then some rocks evolved in to bacteria and then God did something to them
t. catholic scientist
>>76119490
>The "Catholics ignore the Bible" meme
You not understanding what the Bible says doesn't mean Catholics ignore the Bible. We aren't the ones who threw out several books.
>>76119490
>not celebrating the resurrection on the day of the resurrection
>thinking Jesus said "this is bread and wine, do it just this one time or else some LARPer might get butthurt 2000 years later"
>thinking the Bible fell out of the sky independent of the tradition and authority of the Church
You're obviously fucking clueless and if you found yourself in the first century you would shit your pants and cry when you found out that nobody's having Bible study at house churches.
>>76119725
I appreciate you and love you brother in Christ. Never give up.
Hello friends, Lutheran here.
"The tyrant dies and his rule is over, the martyr dies and his rule begins." - Kierkegaard
Remember to pray for the persecuted and the martyrs all around the world.
>>76119599
>google jesuit conspiracy theories made up by butthurt Protestants
Whatever you say m8
>>76119725
The Bible says 6 "yom", which means any period of time. Get over it.
>>76104349
Orthodox
>>76119740
Catholics added already understood heresy to their collection to support heresy. If you actually looked into why the Jews and the pre-catholic church discounted those books, its quite obvious.
>>76119812
6 Days = any period of time.
Are you serious?
>>76119721
Ahh yes I get it. You hate the Catholic Church, and the Church could never orchestrate a noble good in the name of God. I get it.
But where did the bible come from? Who put all those books together into one book called "the bible"?
>>76119740
>You not understanding what the Bible says doesn't mean Catholics ignore the Bible
You're the one who supposedly doesn't have a clue what it says, and literally need to be told what to do by some foot-kissing pagan. I have no idea what you're talking about. Your whole arsenal of arguments amount to
>stop interpretening the bible, heathen prottie scum
>the pope tells us what to do
>he can tell us because some saints started adding things to tradition hundreds of years after God completed His Works
>it's too difficult for anyone to understand, except for the pope
>there are many ways to interpret the bible
>i can pick and choose what i believe, based on what i think is metaphor
>>76119785
May God bless you brother. Thank you for your encouragement in these threads, during these hard times.
>>76119812
>The Bible says 6 "yom", which means any period of time.
Genesis 1:5
And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
>FIRST DAY
Debunked by the bible again, Catholic-kun?
>>76119879
>. If you actually looked into why the Jews and the pre-catholic church discounted those books, its quite obvious.
There are no "pre-catholics". Other Churches that separated from the Catholic Church but still have apostolic succession, never removed those books from the Old Testament.
The only ones who removed them are the Pharisees that created rabbinical judaism.
You are following the doctrines of Pharisees
>>76119879
Explain it then.
>>76120079
>the Bible was originally written in English
lmao
>>76119542
>I don't believe that everyone in any domination isn't a believer. I believe there are many Christians in this world stumbling through religion to find the truth. The 7 letters to the churches from Jesus Christ are rather revealing. No church is perfect. There are always tares amongst the wheat. We are commanded not to pull them out lest the body of Christ falls apart.
You certainly act this way when talking about Catholics.
>>76119927
Yes, I'm serious that the Hebrew word "yom" doesn't mean "24-hour day", cry about it.
>>76120079
>"DUHH GUYS IT SAYS THIS IN ENGLISH KEKLICKS BTFO"
You really have no clue how fucking stupid you are, do you?
Someone should make a new thread, let's keep this trend going! :D
>>76119943
Pretentious.
You believe that the there weren't many churches before the Catholic church?
We know for a fact there were. 7 alone were mentioned in Revelation.
The gospel of Matthew was found where the Dead Sea Scrolls were. They already had in circulation during the lives of the Apostles the Gospel of Matthew and some of the letters.
We have a received text compiled from over 50,000 fragments from which several translations were made from. We have a concordance which allows us to go back to the original Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic used. The earliest Bibles had it side by side with the translations to compare.
The bible that Catholics use is Alexandrian in nature and comes from Egypt. Egypt is associated with evil in every way in the bible but if it wasn't proof enough that text contradicts the majority of the texts I don't know what to tell you.
>>76120079
answer me honestly. If God speaks to everyone clearly and easily when reading the Bible, why did he need to send prophets and then himself? Couldn't he just speak to everyone? Why have a Bible at all? Can't he just tell you everytime what is right or wrong without the need of actual people writing shit down?
Why do you assume God does in a manner that presumably sees authority as despicable, whereas hierarchy is a divine principle?
>>76120095
I guess you refute the teachings of Paul and Peter and the Revelation of John the Apostle referring to several splinters in different regions.
>>76120133
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAp6KUwEBZs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZsZLDWWZMs
>>76120366
Please but no frogs.
"This much is certain: The greatest thing each person can is to give himself to God utterly and unconditionally—weakness, fears, and all. For God love obedience more than good intentions or second-best offerings, which are all too often made under the guide of weakness." -Kierkegaard
Remember to love the Lord with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind
>>76120365
http://creation.com/the-meaning-of-yom-in-genesis-1
I was going to reply to several people, and found myself getting frustrated, and condescending.
I'm sorry, I literally cannot help you. Only God has the patience to wait for you to see reason. He's waited thousands of years, and is always willing to come in to your life and give you understanding. Myself, I cannot do this. You make me want to hit my desk with my face, because you refuse to listen to reason, use logic, or accept that God is higher than man. Yes, you refuse to do this, because you literally insist on putting the doctrines of men higher in your life than God and His authority over YOU and His church. You have chosen to follow someone who kisses Muslim feet and tells you to race-mix with people who have not inherited the promises of God.
What can any of us do for you? If your ears and eyes are closed to God, how can anyone in this thread help? The answer is; we can't.
>>76120365
Well, when God asks you why you just said those words, you can at least tell Him that I forgave you for them.
What are examples of militant saints/religious figures? Besides St. George, The Archangel Michael.
>>76120442
>We know for a fact there were. 7 alone were mentioned in Revelation.
Lmao, never seen a shittier interpretation of that book in my whole life.
>The gospel of Matthew was found where the Dead Sea Scrolls were.
nope, there was no gospel of Matthew among them
>We have a received text compiled from over 50,000 fragments from which several translations were made from
Yes, and we found out that the Jews modified a couple of words in a couple of verses, so that the claim of Jesus being the Messiah would be weaker. And yet you follow their Canon.
>The bible that Catholics use is Alexandrian in nature and comes from Egypt.
That is completely wrong, a tin-foil hat conspiracy for illiterate loonies
>>76120594
>I guess you refute the teachings of Paul and Peter and the Revelation of John the Apostle referring to several splinters in different regions.
There is no such teaching. You are filling the gaps with what you want to be true, instead of looking at the evidence. In the Early Church there were heresies, and they all came from Churches founded without apostolic succession. Those Churches were false and were rebuked by the disciples of the Apostles who wrote fervently against them. The heresies they speak against don't look at all like the beliefs of the Catholic Church. Rather, they are more similar to the heresies of protestants.
>>76120442
>You believe that the there weren't many churches before the Catholic church?
>We know for a fact there were. 7 alone were mentioned in Revelation.
Those were all part of the same institution, holy shit.
>The bible that Catholics use is Alexandrian in nature and comes from Egypt. Egypt is associated with evil in every way in the bible but if it wasn't proof enough that text contradicts the majority of the texts I don't know what to tell you.
Do you believe in the Nicene Creed? Then you follow Egyptian theology formulated by St. Athanasius. Fuck off.
>>76120747
God's not punishing me for defending His Church from your vomit.
>>76121083
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAp6KUwEBZs
Don't lie. There was a Gospel of Matthew and some of the letters.
You don't believe that Christ will come as the Lion later?
The Catholic church didn't exist until 393 AD. Do you think people just sat around doing nothing until then?
>>76121103
>Fuck off.
Real Christ like behavior.
>>76120442
>if it wasn't proof enough that text contradicts the majority of the texts I don't know what to tell you.
not sure what you're implying here either, but you seem to toss around a lot of baseless accusations
>who do you think has the blood of the saints on their hands?
Also, I'm still waiting for the answer to my question-- How do you know which Gospels are the Word of God? Is the Gospel of Thomas divinely inspired? Is the Gospel of Judas divinely inspired? Is the book of Enoch divinely inspired? If possible, please answer these questions and include explanations of how you know which are the divinely inspired Word of God and which are not. Thank you.
>>76121367
>duhh, I can't respond because I know I just lost, I'll play the WWJD card to look superior
As if Jesus was any nicer to the enemies of God.
But no, tell us more about how everybody was just jerking off for 300 years and then suddenly LE EVIL CATHOLIC CHURCH spawns out of nowhere.
The anti-Catholic hate is strong in these threads. During these times that are tough for all Christians, we should be working together and not against each other.
>>76120586
>If God speaks to everyone clearly and easily when reading the Bible, why did he need to send prophets and then himself?
God's Word is so divine, we are not able to see it as God does. That's why a person can read a single chapter in the bible several times, and discover something new in it each time. For example, you might read something in Genesis, and then in Romans, and realize that they are about the same thing. Then you might read Acts and cry because it's all so clear, and then turn to a book you've never understood, and suddenly gain insight to it because of something you learned in Acts.
We aren't God. We aren't able to just absorb 100% of the Word of God in to our spirit without trying. God is leading us, we are on a journey. It's not a sprint, it's a marathon.
God is working in all of His children as best as we allow Him to, and we are all at different levels of understanding and progress, and all different. We all have favourite verses in scripture, and we can teach each other with them, it's part of our growth.
God sent prophets because people went off-track. They sinned, and then someone heard God's voice and went to the people and told them exactly what was going to happen, and then they learned by correction. Then it was all written down for future generations, to see God's will and to show what happened to others so that we can learn from it.
>Why do you assume God does in a manner that presumably sees authority as despicable, whereas hierarchy is a divine principle?
This doesn't make sense to me. He has all authority over us. We have a responsibility to Him.
Read Exodus 32. These people could either listen to someone who told them to sin, or they could have said no and literally walked away to the other side of the camp. They went to Aaron (the priest) and asked for false gods. Did Aaron have 'priesthood' infallibility? No. So why does the pope?
Are you going to start kissing Muslim feet too? Or wait patiently for God?
>>76121539
>implying Protestantism is Christianity
>implying Protestantism isn't at the very root of the degeneracy that destroyed Christendom
>implying we should enable this
![n3Jpn[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/IOzZ8VO.jpg "n3Jpn[1]")
